So they havent officially declared war on us, so we’re going to hold them until they officially end a war?

orange on June 16, 2009 at 12:11 PM

Not sure where you get your information (other than D-Ko’s) but your statement is absolutely NOT TRUE orange, two examples:

1) Attack on the USS Cole, in-of-itself an act of war!

2) AQ/Osama et al declared war on the US and the West in 1998!

Therefore I stand by my statement, those “imprisoned people” are POW’s and according to the GC can be detained until the end of hostilities so if they want to be released any time soon they may want to convince their leaders to end their war against the US and the West, but until that happens as far as I’m concerned they can rot in GITMO!

Regardless, you have to put your personal feelings aside.

orange on June 16, 2009 at 12:11 PM

First of all I’m not a liberal pacifist lefty therefore I do not view issues and make decisions based on emotions/feelings; I’ll leave that to you lefties.

I mean, imagine if China invaded Canada. Would you like that? Now imagine if China said “No, we’re really justified in invading Canada. It’s totally cool.” Would that mollify you in any way?

orange on June 16, 2009 at 12:11 PM

That all depends, was Canada one of the top world supporters of terrorism? Did Canada invade a sovereign nation (like Saddam did) without provocation? Did Canada agree to cease fire terms to end their invasion of said sovereign nation and not live up to their end of the cease fire agreement? If you said yes to any of the above then you are incorrect in your assumption, I would think China had the right to invade Canada and it wouldn’t concern me in the least unless they crossed the border into the US!

Now imagine if we had a presidential election similar to the one in 2000 – very close, lots of allegations of chicanery.

orange on June 16, 2009 at 12:11 PM

Ah, you just couldn’t resist throwing out the lefty “Bush stole the 2000 election.” That statement just proves you’re delusional.

I dont want other nations’ leaders to be telling us how to run our elections. But I’d less hostile to such comments coming from a nation that I perceived as being relatively benign as opposed to one that I perceived as a threat.

orange on June 16, 2009 at 12:11 PM

Neither do I yet many people in Europe put their two cents in when it came to the last election on how America should vote for Obambi. They have a right to exercise their free speech (unlike in Iran) but I also exercised another great right of people that live in a free nation and that was my right to ignore them and vote for the person I thought had the experience and skills needed at this time in history to lead our nation, and that person wasn’t Obambi.

Also, why are you discussing elections? Instead of answering my rebuttal of this comment you made:

torturing people, imprisoning people without due process at Guantanamo, etc?

orange on June 15, 2009 at 6:32 PM

Instead of answering my rebuttal regarding your above comment you’re talking about elections, in other words you know I’m right and in typical lefty form you try to change the topic and did not provide anything to dispute my response to your above comment.

False. I’d like to introduce you to Khalid El-Masri, for one.

orange on June 15, 2009 at 6:32 PM

LMAO…so one instance in which a mistake was made due to the translation of this person’s name is PROOF the US is evil and is “imprisoning people without due process.” In case you are unaware during war people make mistakes all of the time including friendly fire that has resulted in the deaths of many of our own so forgive me if I don’t shed a tear for Masri. Now if Masri wants to sue the US for his mistaken imprisonment and his subsequent treatment during his imprisonment he’s got a good case, but your example of Masri’s case (as tragic as it is) as some sort of “proof” the US is intentionally imprisoning “people” without due process” is weak at best.

In addition I think it would benefit you to do some research in regard to the differences between the US judicial system when it comes to due process for US citizens in civil/criminal cases and the military judicial system when it comes to due process for POW’s as they are entirely different therefore it is ludicrous to compare the two as you are now.

The bottom line is our government thought Masri was an illegal enemy combatant and therefore conducted a rendition to a POW camp yet when the US discovered their error they did the right thing and set him free, this was according to the Wikipedia link you provided:

In April 2004, CIA Director George Tenet learned that El-Masri was being wrongfully detained. National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice learned of his detention shortly thereafter in early May and ordered his release.[7] El-Masri was released on May 28 following a second order from Rice.

As I mentioned, during times of war mistakes are made and innocent people will suffer, war is an ugly thing and surely you should now that by now orange. But for you to somehow try and use this one example (that was a mistake) to paint the US as being evil tyrants is dishonest and lame, furthermore it proves you have no leg to stand on when it comes to my rebuttal of your comments because you know you’re wrong so instead you deflect by throwing out lefty red-herring memes.

So please stick to the topic at hand, you know, that comment of yours about “imprisoning people without due process” that I rebutted!

Remember: Health care is a “crisis.” This is but a “situation.”

Its not even 3:00 a.m. and the Commander in Chief is MIA.

Iran and Iraq had a deadly long war, the people of Iran themselves wanted Iraq done in long ago,

Is Germany called “The Great Satan”?

orange on June 15, 2009 at 6:32 PM

And that statement has to do with what exactly? I fail to see your point.

People in the Muslim world have a much more negative view of the US than Germany due to the US meddling in their region. Thus, they are less likely to be receptive to more meddling.

Has Germany been spending the last 8 years invading Muslim countries

orange on June 15, 2009 at 6:32 PM

Ah typical left BS,

Completely uncontroversial facts = “Left BS”. Interesting.

first of all we “invaded” Afghanistan because the government run by the Taliban allowed AQ to setup terror training camps that were used to train jihadists, plan 9-11, and after 9-11 the Taliban refused to turn over Osama and get rid of the training camps, that’s why the US “invaded” Afghanistan, it was more than justified!

As ar as our invading Iraq, Saddam is to blame for that, instead of complying with the cease fire agreement that ended the first Gulf war Saddam overplayed his hand and got called, nuff said!

I disagree on Iraq, but really that doesnt matter in this case. The fact is that we have been invading and occupying Muslim countries in the region. Whether or not you think those invasions are justified is irrelevant. Most Iranians disagree with you, so if we’re trying to encourage an atmosphere of regime change, it doesnt serve our interests to be seen by the Iranian people as meddling further.

torturing people, imprisoning people without due process at Guantanamo, etc?

orange on June 15, 2009 at 6:32 PM

Imprisoning “people” without due process, really?

Yes, really.

First of all the imprisoned “people” as you call them weren’t pick up at random for no good reason, they were captured on the battlefield and are therefore POW’s!

False. I’d like to introduce you to Khalid El-Masri, for one.

Secondly, because they (our enemy) chooses to fight against the US without waging their war under the flag of a recognized soveriegn nation nor wear the uniform of a recognized soverign nation they are not protected under the Geneva Convention yet they still being provided with a trial by a military tribunal.

In addition, since they are now POW’s they can be detained for the duration of the conflict, so if they want to go home any time soon then perhaps they should convince their leaders to end their war against the West!

Liberty or Death on June 15, 2009 at 7:01 PM

So they havent officially declared war on us, so we’re going to hold them until they officially end a war? Sounds like indefinite detention to me.

Regardless, you have to put your personal feelings aside. You think the US is justified in everything we’ve done – fine. I disagree, but that’s not germane.

The fact is that the way the US is perceived in Iran is different than the way Germany is perceived. This is due to the fact that the US’s foreign policy in the region has been, shall we say, more robust than Germany’s. Surely we can agree on these things, right? Regardless of whether it was right or wrong to invade Iraq, we did invade Iraq. And whether you or I like it or not, the Iranian people dont really like that.

I mean, imagine if China invaded Canada. Would you like that? Now imagine if China said “No, we’re really justified in invading Canada. It’s totally cool.” Would that mollify you in any way?

Now imagine if we had a presidential election similar to the one in 2000 – very close, lots of allegations of chicanery. And imagine China had started making statements about how the election should go. Heck, imagine that they started saying something you agreed with, such as “Bush won; Gore should concede.” Would that make you feel good about China? Wouldnt you just say “Butt out, we’ll take care of this on our own.”? I sure would. I suspect most Americans would.

I dont want other nations’ leaders to be telling us how to run our elections. But I’d less hostile to such comments coming from a nation that I perceived as being relatively benign as opposed to one that I perceived as a threat.

That’s why there’s a difference between what we can say and what Germany can say. Because there’s a difference between how Germany is perceived in Iran and how the US is perceived.

Doesn’t silence at a time like this equate to condoning the action?

ted c on June 15, 2009 at 11:06 PM

Personally, I think that Obama has said too much about these things already. Part of diplomacy is saying the right thing at the right time but an even bigger part of diplomacy is knowing when to keep your mouth shut.

Were I advising the filthy liar in the White House, I would make a statement along the lines of 1) Expressing concern about the violence 2) Affirming the idea that fair open elections are a fundamental humanitarian right of all peoples and 3) Stating that we simply don’t know the reality of what is going on in Iran or in the fairness of the election but that our government will be closely monitoring the situation as it unfolds.

Truthfully, there is nothing the US can do about the protests in Iran other than “express concern.” We don’t have diplomatic relations, they are not a trading partner, Iran does not respond to international pressure, the US is not going to intervene with force, taking sides would just fan the flames of anti-American hatred.

Like it or not there are few options open to the filthy liar in the White House at this point. Later on, he can refuse direct talks or diplomatic relations if it is perceived the Iranian regime abused its citizens. Conversely, if the anti-government forces prevail, he can reward them in some way that could open the door to greater democracy in that part of the world…. It is just too early to do much of anything so the filthy liar should just shut up at this point. Not that he will. If the violence continues, he will be out there making all sorts of stupid and unhelpful statements that will only weaken the US position.

So Iran had an election, huh? Big deal! Stop deluding yourself about these 12th Century savages. They’re playing a zero sum game of global domination while we’re splitting Clintonesque hairs over the definition of the word “is”!
Iran is an islamic theocracy run in tandem by fascist clerics drooling over the legalities of buggering underage family members, and a bug eyed “Twelver” intent upon triggering a global nuclear war that will usher in a new era of Mohammedan supremacy in the world.
And guess what folks, the Iranian population supports these whackos! Abdullah Six-Pack is sucking this Koranic crap up by the freakin’ barrel full. The riots in TerrorRan aren’t the birth pangs of “freedom”, they’re an Islamic fist-fight over who gets the honor of blowing your infidel carcasses to little itzy-bitzy pieces of goop.
“Hope and Change” my a$$!
Jun 15, 2009 – 4:28 am

Punishing the physicians in the US is obviously more important than a little kerfuffle in Iran./

The State Department: Epic Fail

clnurnberg on June 15, 2009 at 3:49 PM

I didn’t like McCain much, but Obama makes me feel bad that he didn’t win.

Doesn’t silence at a time like this equate to condoning the action?

Where is Ollie North when you need him?

jp on June 15, 2009 at 5:11 PM

Maybe we can send Michael Moore instead. Or the Dixie Chicks. Either way the Mullahs would all commit suicide within hours.