Good news: State Dep’t refuses to condemn Iranian crackdown; Update: 2 to 3 million at rally

posted at 3:45 pm on June 15, 2009 by Allahpundit

So says Fox News, via the Standard. Lefties keep assuring me on Twitter that western meddling will only make it easier for the regime to demonize the protesters, but (a) the demonization’s going to happen anyway, (b) no one’s asking Obama to send in the Marines, just to speak up, and (c) Angela Merkel managed to issue a statement earlier today calling the Basij thuggery “completely unacceptable” without killing the uprising in its crib. And still, from the White House, nothing. To think, some commentators are accusing The One of “cowardly silence.”

You’ll also be pleased to know that, according to no less than the New York Times, Obama didn’t bother holding any meetings or conference calls about this yesterday. Remember: Health care is a “crisis.” This is but a “situation.”

State Department spokesman Ian Kelly told reporters Monday that the United States is concerned about allegations of ballot fraud.

Kelly described the U.S. government as “deeply troubled” by the events in Iran, which is a stronger expression of concern than over the weekend when Vice President Biden cast doubt on the legitimacy of the election.

When pressed by a reporter, Kelly declined to condemn the Iranian security forces for their crackdown on street protesters. And he said the U.S. knows too little about the conduct of the election to say for sure whether there was fraud.

If you’re having trouble visualizing what’s meant by “crackdown,” take a look at this or — content warningthis, which I assume is a photo of the man described in an AP report earlier as having been shot dead at that massive rally in Tehran. How massive was it? I keep hearing the number 100,000 or “hundreds of thousands” but, per Iranian tweeters, BBC Persia claims it was one or two million. CBS says the crowd stretched for more than five miles. The clip below will give you a taste of the volume (in both senses of the word) but spare some time for this fabulous collection of photos at Boston.com to get the full flavor of what’s happening.

For all the attention being paid to Mousavi, the guy to keep your eye on going forward is Rafsanjani. He’s easily the most powerful Ahmadinejad enemy inside the Iranian establishment and, as head of the Assembly of Experts, is in position to have Khamenei removed as supreme leader if he can round up enough clerical support. Read this astute analysis about “ayatollah vs. ayatollah” in Time mag for more, including Khamenei’s gambit to cool down the situation by launching that sham fraud probe. (And yes, Mousavi knows it’s a sham.) If things really fall apart and Khamenei’s forced out, Rafsanjani would be his likely replacement with Mousavi installed as president. Fun fact about Rafsanjani, incidentally: He’s been known to talk openly about why nuking Israel would be a big win for Islam because even if Iran is wiped out in a counterstrike, there’ll still be more than a billion Muslims left. What could go wrong?

Update: Time magazine says today’s rally was fully 20 to 30 times larger than the 100,000 estimate we keep hearing.

At the rally Monday, Mousavi supporters referred to the president’s speech derisively, chanting, “Ahmadi, just keep saying it’s a game of football.” Marching past a Revolutionary Guard station full of uniformed men in position, the demonstrators chanted, “We are no weeds and dirt. We are the people of Iran.”

One demonstrator looked to the guy by his side and yelled, “That drove me crazy. When he said that yesterday, calling the protestors weeds and dirt.” A 26-year old mechanic from Hashemiye in the south of Tehran, said he had left his garage to come to the protest.

As a helicopter hovered overhead, the chants grew louder with arms raised in the air: “This 63 percent that they say, where is it?”


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diogenes on June 15, 2009 at 4:58 PM

Mullahs.

bluelightbrigade on June 15, 2009 at 4:59 PM

What’s the carbon footprint of an Iranian revolution? Maybe that’s what’s stopping Uhbamuh from gracing us with an oratory.

OhEssYouCowboys on June 15, 2009 at 5:00 PM

Here I will write Obama a speech:

Flickers of HOPE & CHANGE in Iran is what the world needs. Just as America has opened the door to democracy in Iraq & Afghanistian- due to the powerful leadership of George Bush – the young people of Iran are kicking the door down to let democracy enter Iran. We support the protesters in Iran as they struggle against an evil tyrant who still would rather kill then let people live free. We will do all we can to help the people of Iran. We will continue to monitor the events and will use what ever force is needed to prevent a slaughter of democracy seeking people.

izoneguy on June 15, 2009 at 5:00 PM

I’m not watching Obama speak. The only thing relevant discussion about the middle east is coming from:

1. Bibi Netenyaho
2. Students in Iran

No one in the ME listens to Obama anyway.

See you all tomm.

bluelightbrigade on June 15, 2009 at 5:00 PM

bluelightbrigade on June 15, 2009 at 5:00 PM

Netenyahu

I can’t spell.

/dammit

bluelightbrigade on June 15, 2009 at 5:01 PM

# #iranelection both US and EU implicitly welcome Ahmadinejad fake victory. A weaker government is an easier prey. what a shame.about 2 hours ago from web

# #iranelection to all foreign leaders sending congrats to Ahmadinejad; We will never forget your name and actionabout 2 hours ago from web

http://twitter.com/abbaspour

Ruh roh. Barry and Hugo Chavez are losing their credibility. Good thing Barry is going to continue his policy of “engagement” those silly students are going to have to understand that Barry operates on a different wavelength called “hope” which is really only about his own ego.

elduende on June 15, 2009 at 5:02 PM

The last time Obama was accused of “cowardly silence” he turned out to be quite busy behind the scenes and ultimately pulled a political rabbit out of the hat.

sanguine4 on June 15, 2009 at 4:34 PM

When was that? Are you talking about finally giving the green light to the Navy on the Somali pirates incident?

capitalist piglet on June 15, 2009 at 5:02 PM

Obama’s response to the brutality is absolutely unacceptable.

I could understand if he doesn’t want to declare the election a fraud since I doubt, with no diplomatic ties with the nation in question, we have much good hard evidence (though it sure looks like it was a sham election from the second hand info we’ve been getting).
However, not speaking out against what is an absolute shameful slaughter of innocent civilians is nothing short of cowardly.

The Telegraph piece that was linked above it right on the money. I will no longer refer to this wimp as ‘President Obama’ he really isn’t even worthy of being called ‘Mr.’ anymore. He is a spineless child.

MannyT-vA on June 15, 2009 at 5:03 PM

Has the senile peanut farmer said anything yet? I mean, he’s the guy who de facto put the mullahs in power by stabbing the Shah in the back…

PimFortuynsGhost on June 15, 2009 at 4:58 PM

He probably certified the election like he did with Chavez.

Skywise on June 15, 2009 at 5:03 PM

bluelightbrigade on June 15, 2009 at 5:00 PM

Merkel, Harper, and Sarkozy might (might, not will, unfortunately) use this as an opportunity to bloody Ogabe’s nose and bring him down a peg.

But I do agree with your list.

PimFortuynsGhost on June 15, 2009 at 5:04 PM

Obama: Not Present

PackerBronco on June 15, 2009 at 5:04 PM

progressoverpeace on June 15, 2009 at 4:51 PM

Nah, he’ll blame the “vast right wing conspiracy” for distracting him from fixing health care.

chemman on June 15, 2009 at 5:05 PM

I heard the presidential puppy is nearly housebroken.

Updates?

mankai on June 15, 2009 at 3:48 PM
Awwwwww. Does he know how to sit yet? I hope Nightline has a full feature on tonight and doesn’t put on any of this boring Iran stuff. Yawn.

angryed on June 15, 2009 at 4:16 PM

I just saw on MSNBC that the puppy chewed up MO’s pricey sneakers.

jack herman on June 15, 2009 at 5:06 PM

MannyT-vA on June 15, 2009 at 5:03 PM

His spine is so small an SEM (scanning electron microscope) couldn’t locate it.

chemman on June 15, 2009 at 5:07 PM

Merkel, Harper, and Sarkozy might (might, not will, unfortunately) use this as an opportunity to bloody Ogabe’s nose and bring him down a peg.

But I do agree with your list.

PimFortuynsGhost on June 15, 2009 at 5:04 PM

Excellent point. Don’t think it hasn’t crossed their minds.
That’s how the game is played.

diogenes on June 15, 2009 at 5:08 PM

Maybe some of the younger set that voted for Obama in this Country, will be influenced by seeing people their age in Iran suppressed by the government, and their “great” president sitting silence as the oppression goes on. Surely this display of cowardice by Obama will not go unnoticed by his youngest followers.

Susanboo on June 15, 2009 at 5:09 PM

sitting silent

Susanboo on June 15, 2009 at 5:09 PM

Where is Ollie North when you need him?

jp on June 15, 2009 at 5:11 PM

I found an article which I put up on my blog.

Basically, the gist of the article is that the gambit the mullahs have been playing at for several decades has hit yet another huge gap in credibility.

These guys haven’t learned from Tiannamen. No amount of oppression and tanks in the street can thwart the will of the people who know they were robbed of the chance to have a fair election and a representative government.

Hmmm… Ya think the people wanted anyone but Ahmadenijad so that maybe they’d have a chance at turning back the nuclear clock. Or, at least getting a tone of moderation between Tehran and Washington?

mncons72 on June 15, 2009 at 5:12 PM

Obarfy: Let me be clear..

…yea?

….

Yes, Mr. President? What do you want to say about Iran?

Let me be clear..

Ahh, guys, ObamaBot 2000 is broken.

Obarfy: Let me be clear..

Obarfy: Let me be clear..

Obarfy: Let me be clear..

Obarfy: Let me be clear..

Ah–yeayea, hit that, yup, okay, twist that wire around, okay, got it

Obarfy: Let me be clear..

We will not tolerate any electoral fraud in the Iranian elections.

ahh, fixed

blatantblue on June 15, 2009 at 5:12 PM

Thanks for obama, you dumb masses.

DougDavis on June 15, 2009 at 5:13 PM

# We ask Americans to say Obama not confirming Ahmadinejad’s government and support people of Iran #iranelectionabout 3 hours ago from web

http://twitter.com/abbaspour

Yoohoo Barry. Barry where are you? Hmmm he must be rereading his oversold Cairo speech to see if there is an answer he can use in there. Yoohoo why are you still listening to your sycophantic followers? Hey Barry how’s it feel to have your Iran policy lying in ruins?? Barry yoohoo where’d he go?

elduende on June 15, 2009 at 5:17 PM

what’s the big guy saying so far?

youngO on June 15, 2009 at 5:19 PM

Twitters are reporting homes in Tehran are now being invaded and Satellite dishes being taken.

BakerAllie on June 15, 2009 at 5:43 PM

we need to use this to over throw the entire Government

jp on June 15, 2009 at 5:43 PM

we need to use this to over throw the entire Government

jp on June 15, 2009 at 5:43 PM

Of Iran or the US???

izoneguy on June 15, 2009 at 6:03 PM

Can someone answer this? How could Iranian Election Officials count 40 million handwritten paper ballots in a day? I mean, that’s not even a good fake.

marklmail on June 15, 2009 at 6:03 PM

Sarkozy linky deals

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/reuters/090614/world/international_us_iran_election

It was a spokes person for Sarkozy speaking, but it was and is stronger that anything Zero has said.

freeus on June 15, 2009 at 6:08 PM

This should give some insight as to what Sarkozy thinks about Obama and Iran.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1031943.html

It was prior to the election, but pretty much sums up why he thinks he is a “stuffed shirt”.

freeus on June 15, 2009 at 6:13 PM

Obama will probably just apologize to Muslims for America’s rude interference in Iran’s elections.

Dr B on June 15, 2009 at 6:16 PM

Obama is now working on the set of preconditions that must be in place before he talks to dinner jacket. Obama has stated repeatedly that he would demand pre-conditions before talking to dictators.

/sarc

Geochelone on June 15, 2009 at 6:18 PM

Can someone answer this? How could Iranian Election Officials count 40 million handwritten paper ballots in a day? I mean, that’s not even a good fake.

marklmail on June 15, 2009 at 6:03 PM

They only counted Broward Country and then projected from there.

Geochelone on June 15, 2009 at 6:20 PM

Obama didn’t bother holding any meetings or conference calls about this yesterday.

It’s above his paygrade.

faol on June 15, 2009 at 6:28 PM

Obama and his administration are mullahfying the thugs in Iran, and everywhere else.

Schadenfreude on June 15, 2009 at 6:30 PM

Thanks for obama, you dumb (m)asses.

DougDavis on June 15, 2009 at 5:13 PM

Schadenfreude on June 15, 2009 at 6:31 PM

Lefties keep assuring me on Twitter that western meddling will only make it easier for the regime to demonize the protesters, but (a) the demonization’s going to happen anyway,

So that’s a good reason to help their efforts?

(b) no one’s asking Obama to send in the Marines, just to speak up, and

Yes, but the Lefty tweeters are saying that speaking up is bad. Your counterargument is that nobody is suggesting doing something worse. Well, who cares? That’s complete strawman material.

I can imagine AP trying to put out a house fire. “Lefties are saying that it would be a bad idea to try to blow out the fire. But nobody’s asking me to throw gasoline on it, just to blow it out. Thus blowing out the fire would be prudent.” That makes no sense.

(c) Angela Merkel managed to issue a statement earlier today calling the Basij thuggery “completely unacceptable” without killing the uprising in its crib.

Is Germany called “The Great Satan”? Has Germany been spending the last 8 years invading Muslim countries, torturing people, imprisoning people without due process at Guantanamo, etc?

Nope. Thus I imagine you can see how Germany’s response isnt as pivotal as ours.

If you want to actually make a case that the State Department should say or do something, fine. But this was no case at all.

orange on June 15, 2009 at 6:32 PM

Now, just relax everyone, as soon as the President takes over the Health Care System, the problems in Iran will be fine. Doesn’t he just exude confidence?

mobydutch on June 15, 2009 at 6:35 PM

Ochimpy, Greasy Joe, and the MSM.

csdeven on June 15, 2009 at 6:39 PM

what’s the big guy saying so far?

youngO on June 15, 2009 at 5:19 PM

Obambi isn’t saying anything, he’s waiting for the opinion/popularity polls to come out to see which way the wind is blowing before doing or saying anything…just like Clintoon did!

Smart power my azz, further proof THE ONE is a big empty suited ZERO and those that voted for him are easily fooled!

Liberty or Death on June 15, 2009 at 6:44 PM

One demonstrator looked to the guy by his side and yelled, “That drove me crazy. When he said that yesterday, calling the protestors weeds and dirt.”

Reminiscent of the president’s and media’s dismissive attitude towards the tea party protesters, dontcha think?

disa on June 15, 2009 at 6:47 PM

Obama is a gutless coward. Reagan is spinning in his grave.

BuckNutty on June 15, 2009 at 3:50 PM

Hell, even Carter would have said something at this point.

Fed45 on June 15, 2009 at 6:50 PM

I’m sure somebody mentioned this in an earlier comment…but this perfectly fits Obama’s pattern. Anybody remember when Russia invaded Georgia last year? Took quite a while for Obama to say anything at all…when he did, it was weak sauce. McCain basically had to shame him into saying anything at all.

AUINSC on June 15, 2009 at 6:51 PM

Obama figures, why get involved with a family quarrel. I mean, we have “Peace in our time!”.

kirkill on June 15, 2009 at 6:53 PM

Great Presidents seize the moment and drive events. They don’t sit back and wait to see how it turns out because they are afraid of getting it wrong. Get in the arena. Seize the moment, you coward. There are brave people in Iran who are putting it all on the line and you are nowhere to be found. What an embarrassment.

JohnInCA on June 15, 2009 at 6:56 PM

Are we seeing the blossoming of Carter Part Deux? Hope and change metastasizing into a leadership vacuum so complete that only the blindest and most irresponsible of the left can pretend to ignore it?

We’ve got two reporters locked up in the PDRK, an electoral heist in Iran of a quality that’d make Hugo Chavez flush with pride, fresh nukes popping up all over the world like flowers after a spring rain, and right now our administration and our State Department look…useless.

JEM on June 15, 2009 at 6:56 PM

Is Germany called “The Great Satan”?

orange on June 15, 2009 at 6:32 PM

And that statement has to do with what exactly? I fail to see your point.

Has Germany been spending the last 8 years invading Muslim countries

orange on June 15, 2009 at 6:32 PM

Ah typical left BS, first of all we “invaded” Afghanistan because the government run by the Taliban allowed AQ to setup terror training camps that were used to train jihadists, plan 9-11, and after 9-11 the Taliban refused to turn over Osama and get rid of the training camps, that’s why the US “invaded” Afghanistan, it was more than justified!

As ar as our invading Iraq, Saddam is to blame for that, instead of complying with the cease fire agreement that ended the first Gulf war Saddam overplayed his hand and got called, nuff said!

torturing people, imprisoning people without due process at Guantanamo, etc?

orange on June 15, 2009 at 6:32 PM

Imprisoning “people” without due process, really? First of all the imprisoned “people” as you call them weren’t pick up at random for no good reason, they were captured on the battlefield and are therefore POW’s! Secondly, because they (our enemy) chooses to fight against the US without waging their war under the flag of a recognized soveriegn nation nor wear the uniform of a recognized soverign nation they are not protected under the Geneva Convention yet they still being provided with a trial by a military tribunal.

In addition, since they are now POW’s they can be detained for the duration of the conflict, so if they want to go home any time soon then perhaps they should convince their leaders to end their war against the West!

Liberty or Death on June 15, 2009 at 7:01 PM

Liberty or Death on June 15, 2009 at 7:01 PM

Thanks. Good job.

Loxodonta on June 15, 2009 at 7:06 PM

If this goes well (freedom), it will be because of Obama’s speech. If it goes poorly…

It’s BUSH’s Fault! ;)

ncpatriot on June 15, 2009 at 7:07 PM

3 a.m.

Thank you for calling the RED phone to the White House; I’m sorry, there aren’t any grown-ups working today…

If you would like to be transfered to Condi Rice: Press #1.

TN Mom on June 15, 2009 at 7:12 PM

Lefties keep assuring me on Twitter that western meddling will only make it easier for the regime to demonize the protesters

Don’t worry AP… this is nothing new. Lefties had this same mentality about Reagan and Eastern Europe… However, we are SO LUCKY that Gorbachev brought peace… Lefties know what’s important – like demanding Bush not attend the Beijing Olympics…

Upstater85 on June 15, 2009 at 7:32 PM

Is Germany called “The Great Satan”?

orange on June 15, 2009 at 6:32 PM

And that statement has to do with what exactly? I fail to see your point.

Liberty or Death on June 15, 2009 at 7:01 PM

Now, now, he makes a good point… Clearly Germany is not the “Great Satan.

Upstater85 on June 15, 2009 at 7:34 PM

Obama’s comments today were PATHETIC. Neville Chamberlain couldn’t have said it better.

PattyJ on June 15, 2009 at 7:35 PM

The real surprise would be a timely, incisive comment.
Ain’t gonna happen.
Messiah hasn’t responded because He doesn’t know what to say…and neither do his droogies.

n0doz on June 15, 2009 at 7:37 PM

Face it. The man is a spineless incompetent ninny in an Armani suit who cannot speak without the aid of a mechanical teleprompter that someone is loading. He is a rock star to the unwashed masses, not a leader and CERTAINLY not the leader of the Free World (as we know it).

I hope that all Muslims will wake up and realize that this man is a fraud. Nothing more and nothing less. You could blow up balloons to inflate his suit, pop on a fake head with some purple lips and a string in his back that makes his lips go up and down uttering soothing songs of bullsh$t.

Perhaps his Saudi handlers told him to shut up and eat his fuggin waffles before they trotted him out to say… “uhh… uhh… uhh… uhhh.. Look at the puppy”

/spit

Key West Reader on June 15, 2009 at 7:38 PM

The Iranians didn’t even count the supposed forty million ballots in a day, but within like four hours of the polls closing they had their number and percentage which was unvaried at all times and in all regions and ethnic groups. Talk about the will of allah. When a religious regime (or supposed religious regime) is this blatantly involved in a major fraud against the will of its flock, revolution can’t be too far away, and not of the American variety, but more like the French variety (before they became knots on wood).

eaglewingz08 on June 15, 2009 at 7:41 PM

When a religious regime (or supposed religious regime) is this blatantly involved in a major fraud against the will of its flock, revolution can’t be too far away, and not of the American variety, but more like the French variety (before they became knots on wood).

eaglewingz08 on June 15, 2009 at 7:41 PM

Yeah… the prospects are scary.

Upstater85 on June 15, 2009 at 7:43 PM

What is Al-Jazerra reporting?

Queen0fCups on June 15, 2009 at 7:53 PM

It’s so interesting that the rally for Yabba Dabba Nutjob has colorful flags, obviously professionally printed, versus the homemade signs of the protesters. Astroturfing is popular in Iran, too.

Queen0fCups on June 15, 2009 at 7:55 PM

Wait a second 2 – 3 million???

No that cant be right it must be a right wing conspiracy

Remember that over 5000 tea parties the most that the news media ever showed was 300..

http://www.veteranoutrage.com\public_blog

veteranoutrage on June 15, 2009 at 7:56 PM

What we need from Obama right now is the Iranian equivalent of

‘Mr Gorbachev tear down this wall”

kingsley on June 15, 2009 at 8:16 PM

Gutless tools…all of them.

SuperCool on June 15, 2009 at 8:40 PM

The people of Iran shame us. Our government was seized by ACORN, who installed a foreign-born, America-hating Marxist and all we did in response was change the channel to “American Idol” and hope that Barry would turn out to be a reasonable moderate. What will it take to get millions of real Americans into the streets?

guntotinglibertarian on June 15, 2009 at 8:41 PM

More proof that the State Department cannot be trusted with the foreign policy of the United States.

Phil Byler on June 15, 2009 at 9:40 PM

Quick! Would somebody please Puh-leeze fix TOTUS so POTUS can say something about this?!

markfm on June 15, 2009 at 10:12 PM

Where is Ollie North when you need him?

jp on June 15, 2009 at 5:11 PM

Maybe we can send Michael Moore instead. Or the Dixie Chicks. Either way the Mullahs would all commit suicide within hours.

MikeA on June 15, 2009 at 10:19 PM

Did TOTUS have the day off yesterday?

Doesn’t silence at a time like this equate to condoning the action?

ted c on June 15, 2009 at 11:06 PM

Punishing the physicians in the US is obviously more important than a little kerfuffle in Iran./

The State Department: Epic Fail

clnurnberg on June 15, 2009 at 3:49 PM

I didn’t like McCain much, but Obama makes me feel bad that he didn’t win.

Libertarian Joseph on June 16, 2009 at 12:13 AM

Obama.
Epic fail.
Epic coward.
Dangerously ignorant and naive.
Self absorbed narcissist.
Utterly incompetent.
Spineless bully.
Utter media fabrication.

enoughalready on June 16, 2009 at 12:16 AM

4. whataloadacrap08:

So Iran had an election, huh? Big deal! Stop deluding yourself about these 12th Century savages. They’re playing a zero sum game of global domination while we’re splitting Clintonesque hairs over the definition of the word “is”!
Iran is an islamic theocracy run in tandem by fascist clerics drooling over the legalities of buggering underage family members, and a bug eyed “Twelver” intent upon triggering a global nuclear war that will usher in a new era of Mohammedan supremacy in the world.
And guess what folks, the Iranian population supports these whackos! Abdullah Six-Pack is sucking this Koranic crap up by the freakin’ barrel full. The riots in TerrorRan aren’t the birth pangs of “freedom”, they’re an Islamic fist-fight over who gets the honor of blowing your infidel carcasses to little itzy-bitzy pieces of goop.
“Hope and Change” my a$$!
Jun 15, 2009 – 4:28 am

AMERICAN VETERAN on June 16, 2009 at 3:32 AM

So ACORN has an Iraqi branch to perform voter fraud there too.

Jeff from WI on June 16, 2009 at 7:49 AM

Doesn’t silence at a time like this equate to condoning the action?

ted c on June 15, 2009 at 11:06 PM

Personally, I think that Obama has said too much about these things already. Part of diplomacy is saying the right thing at the right time but an even bigger part of diplomacy is knowing when to keep your mouth shut.

Were I advising the filthy liar in the White House, I would make a statement along the lines of 1) Expressing concern about the violence 2) Affirming the idea that fair open elections are a fundamental humanitarian right of all peoples and 3) Stating that we simply don’t know the reality of what is going on in Iran or in the fairness of the election but that our government will be closely monitoring the situation as it unfolds.

Truthfully, there is nothing the US can do about the protests in Iran other than “express concern.” We don’t have diplomatic relations, they are not a trading partner, Iran does not respond to international pressure, the US is not going to intervene with force, taking sides would just fan the flames of anti-American hatred.

Like it or not there are few options open to the filthy liar in the White House at this point. Later on, he can refuse direct talks or diplomatic relations if it is perceived the Iranian regime abused its citizens. Conversely, if the anti-government forces prevail, he can reward them in some way that could open the door to greater democracy in that part of the world…. It is just too early to do much of anything so the filthy liar should just shut up at this point. Not that he will. If the violence continues, he will be out there making all sorts of stupid and unhelpful statements that will only weaken the US position.

highhopes on June 16, 2009 at 7:54 AM

I’ll watch it all on the All Bomma Channel

johnnyU on June 16, 2009 at 9:28 AM

I also say keep he numbers rising over there. That’s Adinnerjacket’s worst nightmare.

johnnyU on June 16, 2009 at 9:29 AM

The Muslims in the street are not Obama’s kind of Muslims.

davod on June 16, 2009 at 11:54 AM

Is Germany called “The Great Satan”?

orange on June 15, 2009 at 6:32 PM

And that statement has to do with what exactly? I fail to see your point.

People in the Muslim world have a much more negative view of the US than Germany due to the US meddling in their region. Thus, they are less likely to be receptive to more meddling.

Has Germany been spending the last 8 years invading Muslim countries

orange on June 15, 2009 at 6:32 PM

Ah typical left BS,

Completely uncontroversial facts = “Left BS”. Interesting.

first of all we “invaded” Afghanistan because the government run by the Taliban allowed AQ to setup terror training camps that were used to train jihadists, plan 9-11, and after 9-11 the Taliban refused to turn over Osama and get rid of the training camps, that’s why the US “invaded” Afghanistan, it was more than justified!

As ar as our invading Iraq, Saddam is to blame for that, instead of complying with the cease fire agreement that ended the first Gulf war Saddam overplayed his hand and got called, nuff said!

I disagree on Iraq, but really that doesnt matter in this case. The fact is that we have been invading and occupying Muslim countries in the region. Whether or not you think those invasions are justified is irrelevant. Most Iranians disagree with you, so if we’re trying to encourage an atmosphere of regime change, it doesnt serve our interests to be seen by the Iranian people as meddling further.

torturing people, imprisoning people without due process at Guantanamo, etc?

orange on June 15, 2009 at 6:32 PM

Imprisoning “people” without due process, really?

Yes, really.

First of all the imprisoned “people” as you call them weren’t pick up at random for no good reason, they were captured on the battlefield and are therefore POW’s!

False. I’d like to introduce you to Khalid El-Masri, for one.

Secondly, because they (our enemy) chooses to fight against the US without waging their war under the flag of a recognized soveriegn nation nor wear the uniform of a recognized soverign nation they are not protected under the Geneva Convention yet they still being provided with a trial by a military tribunal.

In addition, since they are now POW’s they can be detained for the duration of the conflict, so if they want to go home any time soon then perhaps they should convince their leaders to end their war against the West!

Liberty or Death on June 15, 2009 at 7:01 PM

So they havent officially declared war on us, so we’re going to hold them until they officially end a war? Sounds like indefinite detention to me.

Regardless, you have to put your personal feelings aside. You think the US is justified in everything we’ve done – fine. I disagree, but that’s not germane.

The fact is that the way the US is perceived in Iran is different than the way Germany is perceived. This is due to the fact that the US’s foreign policy in the region has been, shall we say, more robust than Germany’s. Surely we can agree on these things, right? Regardless of whether it was right or wrong to invade Iraq, we did invade Iraq. And whether you or I like it or not, the Iranian people dont really like that.

I mean, imagine if China invaded Canada. Would you like that? Now imagine if China said “No, we’re really justified in invading Canada. It’s totally cool.” Would that mollify you in any way?

Now imagine if we had a presidential election similar to the one in 2000 – very close, lots of allegations of chicanery. And imagine China had started making statements about how the election should go. Heck, imagine that they started saying something you agreed with, such as “Bush won; Gore should concede.” Would that make you feel good about China? Wouldnt you just say “Butt out, we’ll take care of this on our own.”? I sure would. I suspect most Americans would.

I dont want other nations’ leaders to be telling us how to run our elections. But I’d less hostile to such comments coming from a nation that I perceived as being relatively benign as opposed to one that I perceived as a threat.

That’s why there’s a difference between what we can say and what Germany can say. Because there’s a difference between how Germany is perceived in Iran and how the US is perceived.

orange on June 16, 2009 at 12:11 PM

orange your slipping on a banna of lies and fraud.

Iran and Iraq had a deadly long war, the people of Iran themselves wanted Iraq done in long ago,

badtothebone on June 16, 2009 at 12:53 PM

Maybe Barry needs to call a real president to get some advice. Even Carter would be doing better.

Vashta.Nerada on June 16, 2009 at 1:22 PM

Remember: Health care is a “crisis.” This is but a “situation.”

Its not even 3:00 a.m. and the Commander in Chief is MIA.

taznar on June 16, 2009 at 4:11 PM

So they havent officially declared war on us, so we’re going to hold them until they officially end a war?

orange on June 16, 2009 at 12:11 PM

Not sure where you get your information (other than D-Ko’s) but your statement is absolutely NOT TRUE orange, two examples:

1) Attack on the USS Cole, in-of-itself an act of war!

2) AQ/Osama et al declared war on the US and the West in 1998!

Therefore I stand by my statement, those “imprisoned people” are POW’s and according to the GC can be detained until the end of hostilities so if they want to be released any time soon they may want to convince their leaders to end their war against the US and the West, but until that happens as far as I’m concerned they can rot in GITMO!

Regardless, you have to put your personal feelings aside.

orange on June 16, 2009 at 12:11 PM

First of all I’m not a liberal pacifist lefty therefore I do not view issues and make decisions based on emotions/feelings; I’ll leave that to you lefties.

I mean, imagine if China invaded Canada. Would you like that? Now imagine if China said “No, we’re really justified in invading Canada. It’s totally cool.” Would that mollify you in any way?

orange on June 16, 2009 at 12:11 PM

That all depends, was Canada one of the top world supporters of terrorism? Did Canada invade a sovereign nation (like Saddam did) without provocation? Did Canada agree to cease fire terms to end their invasion of said sovereign nation and not live up to their end of the cease fire agreement? If you said yes to any of the above then you are incorrect in your assumption, I would think China had the right to invade Canada and it wouldn’t concern me in the least unless they crossed the border into the US!

Now imagine if we had a presidential election similar to the one in 2000 – very close, lots of allegations of chicanery.

orange on June 16, 2009 at 12:11 PM

Ah, you just couldn’t resist throwing out the lefty “Bush stole the 2000 election.” That statement just proves you’re delusional.

I dont want other nations’ leaders to be telling us how to run our elections. But I’d less hostile to such comments coming from a nation that I perceived as being relatively benign as opposed to one that I perceived as a threat.

orange on June 16, 2009 at 12:11 PM

Neither do I yet many people in Europe put their two cents in when it came to the last election on how America should vote for Obambi. They have a right to exercise their free speech (unlike in Iran) but I also exercised another great right of people that live in a free nation and that was my right to ignore them and vote for the person I thought had the experience and skills needed at this time in history to lead our nation, and that person wasn’t Obambi.

Also, why are you discussing elections? Instead of answering my rebuttal of this comment you made:

torturing people, imprisoning people without due process at Guantanamo, etc?

orange on June 15, 2009 at 6:32 PM

Instead of answering my rebuttal regarding your above comment you’re talking about elections, in other words you know I’m right and in typical lefty form you try to change the topic and did not provide anything to dispute my response to your above comment.

False. I’d like to introduce you to Khalid El-Masri, for one.

orange on June 15, 2009 at 6:32 PM

LMAO…so one instance in which a mistake was made due to the translation of this person’s name is PROOF the US is evil and is “imprisoning people without due process.” In case you are unaware during war people make mistakes all of the time including friendly fire that has resulted in the deaths of many of our own so forgive me if I don’t shed a tear for Masri. Now if Masri wants to sue the US for his mistaken imprisonment and his subsequent treatment during his imprisonment he’s got a good case, but your example of Masri’s case (as tragic as it is) as some sort of “proof” the US is intentionally imprisoning “people” without due process” is weak at best.

In addition I think it would benefit you to do some research in regard to the differences between the US judicial system when it comes to due process for US citizens in civil/criminal cases and the military judicial system when it comes to due process for POW’s as they are entirely different therefore it is ludicrous to compare the two as you are now.

The bottom line is our government thought Masri was an illegal enemy combatant and therefore conducted a rendition to a POW camp yet when the US discovered their error they did the right thing and set him free, this was according to the Wikipedia link you provided:

In April 2004, CIA Director George Tenet learned that El-Masri was being wrongfully detained. National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice learned of his detention shortly thereafter in early May and ordered his release.[7] El-Masri was released on May 28 following a second order from Rice.

As I mentioned, during times of war mistakes are made and innocent people will suffer, war is an ugly thing and surely you should now that by now orange. But for you to somehow try and use this one example (that was a mistake) to paint the US as being evil tyrants is dishonest and lame, furthermore it proves you have no leg to stand on when it comes to my rebuttal of your comments because you know you’re wrong so instead you deflect by throwing out lefty red-herring memes.

So please stick to the topic at hand, you know, that comment of yours about “imprisoning people without due process” that I rebutted!

Liberty or Death on June 17, 2009 at 6:47 PM

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