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Senior U.S. official: Yes, the Iranian election was rigged; Update: 50-100 dead? Update: We’ll still work with Iran, says White House

posted at 3:47 pm on June 13, 2009 by Allahpundit
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The White House is playing it cool lest U.S. support for Mousavi discredit his supporters but U.S. analysts have little doubt. The fix is indeed in:

U.S. analysts find it “not credible” that challenger Mir Hossein Mousavi would have lost the balloting in his hometown or that a third candidate, Mehdi Karoubi, would have received less than 1 percent of the total vote, a senior U.S. officials told FOX News.

Supreme Leader Ayatollah Khameini apparently has released a statement calling the results “final” and hailing the election as a legitimization of the regime and its elections…

The dominant view among Obama administration officials is that the regime will look so bad as a result of whipping up Iranian hopes for democracy and then squelching them that the regime may feel compelled to show some conciliatory response to Obama’s gestures of engagement.

Maybe. Or maybe popular unrest will force them to clamp down harder, become more recalcitrant about negotiations, and double down on nationalist propaganda about nukes to get the public back on their side. More from Time on what a shabby fraud this was:

By Saturday morning, the most often repeated exclamation in Tehran was: “It’s not possible!”…

A group of young men said they had talked to their families in the provinces, including Kurdish Kermanshah, Azeri Oroumiyeh and Ardeblil. Mohsen, 23, said, “Everyone in Tabriz [Mousavi's hometown] voted for Mousavi. The official count says a majority for Ahmadinejad. That’s not possible.” Mehdi, 27, chimed in, “Even if just Karroubi’s family in Lorestan had voted for him, he would have won more than 300,000 votes.”

More serious allegations came from officials involved in the various reformist candidates’ campaigns. Mohammad-Ali Abtahi, part of opposition figure Mehdi Karroubi’s campaign, pointed out that the government “announced a wholesale figure of 70% for Ahmadinejad last night, as opposed to breaking it down province by province as they usually do.” The first figures were announced shortly after voting closed, he added. A breakdown of how people in each city and province voted has not been released yet.

At the Mousavi headquarters, former Interior Minister Ali Akbar Mohtashamipour protested that Mousavi observers had not gained access to many of the polling centers. He also said that in Tabriz, Mousavi’s birthplace, many of the polling stations had run out of ballots only two hours after opening, even though about 59 million ballots had been printed by the government, about 13 million more than the number of eligible voters.

The regime shut down text messaging across the country yesterday too to hamper organization of the protests they knew would follow the results. Even so, the Beeb says street violence today is the worst Tehran has seen in 10 years, replete with Iranian cops beating women with nightsticks. The clip below will give you a taste but see Michael Totten for more vids, including one of a monster rally where protesters chanted “Death to the government.” There’s also a hot rumor going around that Rafsanjani, the former president of Iran, current head of the powerful Assembly of Experts, and rival-in-chief to Ahmadinejad, has resigned from the Expediency Council in protest of the results, a move which should go a long way towards delegitimizing them. After 30 years, only a diehard optimist would bet on this clusterfark exploding into full-fledged counterrevolution, but the more discredited the regime is and the more alienated Iranians feel from it, the more leverage the west has to get tough with them over the nuclear impasse. Assuming, of course, that the political will to do so exists. Which it doesn’t.

As I write this, news is breaking that Mousavi’s been arrested, which would be the second big mistake the mullahs have made in the last 24 hours. Three questions now as things heat up. One: Why didn’t they rig the vote in a more convincing way? Everyone expected the margin to be close after such a nasty campaign; a close Ahmadinejad win, with Mousavi victorious in the urban areas he was supposed to carry, would have been credible. I guess they figured that a narrow defeat would be treated as even more suspect by Mousavi’s supporters, so they went in the opposite direction and made it a landslide — to an implausible degree, as it turned out. Two: With the regime more illegitimate than ever, where does this leave The One vis-a-vis nuke negotiations? He’s been careful in the past to distinguish Khamenei from the more toxic Ahmadinejad, but Khamenei blessed the results today as a “divine assessment.” His credibility’s shot now, too. If Obama meets with him anyway, it’ll put the U.S. on the side of a sham government against the Iranian people more starkly than ever before. Three: Did Khamenei order the election rigged on Ahmadinejad’s behalf or did Ahmadinejad order the election rigged on his own behalf? That is to say, who really controls the levers of power in Iran? If you read nothing else I’ve linked here, at least read this fascinating interview in the Nation with a former Iranian minister who argues that because Dinnerjacket is closely allied with the fantastically powerful Revolutionary Guard (and a former Guardsman himself) and oversees the ministries that keep Khamenei informed of what’s happening, he can effectively isolate and manipulate him. Maybe — maybe — the situation in Iran is now less a case of Khamenei using Ahmadinejad as a public mouthpiece than vice versa. Good luck, Barry.

Update: At the Standard, Stephen Hayes says it’s time for a new Obama speech challenging the results on behalf of the Iranian people. If he does that, though, then nuke negotiations are well and truly dead; the regime’s not going to chat with a guy who’s basically calling for it to be overthrown, in which case the military option is the only solution left to stopping an Iranian bomb. Think The One’s going to leave himself with that hand?

Update: Another must-read at Foreign Policy’s blog The Cable rounding up reaction from Iranian experts. No one but no one is taking the election numbers seriously, which makes this a full-blown legitimacy crisis for a regime that’s never been very legitimate to begin with. I can’t believe they FUBAR’d the fix this badly.

Update: Tehran Bureau, a site for independent Iranian journalism, claims there are 50 to 100 people dead from Iranian cops’ thuggery at protests today. Plus thus tidbit, proving that this is in fact a coup:

Two interesting points on Iranian election:

1. After election results were announced, the election committee must wait for three days to accept any grievances for any irregularity before certify the results.

2. The results of election needs to be certified by the Council of Experts before it goes to the Leader for final approval

Today neither of these two rules were followed and the Leader in his speech approved the results of the election and asked all parties involved to work with Ahmadinejad.

Follow the link for videos galore. And see this post too for a graph that’s as much of a smoking gun as LGF’s famous Rathergate graphic was.

Update: Steve Hayes had better not hold his breath waiting for that Obama speech. The White House says it’s full speed ahead on “dialogue.”

The Obama administration is determined to press on with efforts to engage the Iranian government, senior officials said Saturday, despite misgivings about irregularities in the re-election of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad…

“This is the worst result,” said Thomas R. Pickering, a former under secretary of state. “The U.S. will have to worry about being perceived as pandering to a president whose legitimacy is in question. It clearly makes the notion of providing incentives quite unappetizing.”

Presumably the thinking here is that public outrage in Iran will weaken the mullahs’ hand against the U.S. and force them to accept some grand bargain, in which case Obama’s basically offering them legitimacy in exchange for denuclearization. The more likely outcome, though, is that the regime will continue to jerk him around while it builds a bomb and then count on its announcement that Iran has become a nuclear state to stoke national pride and win over its disaffected public. In which case Obama will have given them legitimacy in exchange for nothing. Terrific.


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The dominant view among Obama administration officials is that the regime will look so bad as a result of whipping up Iranian hopes for democracy and then squelching them that the regime may feel compelled to show some conciliatory response to Obama’s gestures of engagement.

Talk about navel gazing. So the election comes down to how important Obama is to everyone and everything happening over there.

Wow. Just, wow…

MarkT on June 13, 2009 at 7:53 PM

If Obama has a shred of decency in him, a shred of belief in democracy in him, a shred of belief in human rights in him, and particularly given the following two “tidbits”, that is exactly what he will do. If he does not then he is a tyrant who supports tyrants and is an abomination on America and is no longer a legitimate President of the United States, if he ever was.

He has no such threads, sorry. Does he want the Israelis to hit the Iranians? Oh, yes…imagine the crisis to be used.

Used for what? Well, Timmy Geithner was appointed to Treasury because of that crisis, “the only man who understands” (heh). How about delay of the 2010 or 2012 elections due to an “unsettled world situation and potential nuclear war”?

Of course that is a huge reach, but seeing the feds owning most of the banking system and GM and Chrysler and wage controls and national healthcare and cap + tax in the space of a year is much faster than I figured…obviously Bama is not the only wild and crazy power hound walking around in DC. He has more company that I suspected.

And Rahm don’t care about anything but what promotes Rahm. That’s why he and Bama work so well together, because Bama is his meal ticket and Rahm will do anything to preserve it.

Harry Schell on June 13, 2009 at 8:06 PM

Obama’s basically offering them legitimacy in exchange for denuclearization

Given the rapidity with which the White House had made this decision, I can’t help but think they haven’t given any thought to the downside to this huge gamble. They are either incredibly stupid, or Obama is full of himself that he can’t imagine that Iran will not be persuaded by him. What a dork. America is poised to sell out the Iranian people, friendly Gulf Arab states and Israel all at the same time, the worst possible outcome.

ProfessorMiao on June 13, 2009 at 8:08 PM

Sure looks like Ahmadinejad took a page from Obama’s own play book and had his own group of community organizers (PISTACHIO) rig the election for him.

OxyCon on June 13, 2009 at 8:17 PM

OxyCon on June 13, 2009 at 8:17 PM

PISTACHIO! LOL!

elduende on June 13, 2009 at 8:21 PM

In light of the administration’s apparent hostility and uncompromising stance towards Israel, Abbas sees no reason to negotiate anything with the Israelis. So too, Hamas leader Khaled Mashaal made clear on Tuesday that he sees the Obama administration as a potential ally for his Iranian-controlled genocidal jihadist movement. Mashaal has four good reasons for viewing things this way. First, in his speech in Cairo, Obama accepted the Arab view that Israel is an alien entity to the Middle East which owes its legitimacy to the genocide of European Jewry by Europeans in Europe, and which has the moral standing of white slaveholders in the antebellum American south.

Second, Obama has pledged $900 million in US taxpayer funds to Hamas-controlled Gaza and is pressuring Israel to support Gaza economically in spite of the fact that Hamas continues to attack southern Israel with rockets and to expand and diversify its arsenals.

Third, the Obama administration is abandoning its predecessor’s bid to isolate Hamas by pressuring Fatah and Egypt to offer Hamas full partnership in a Fatah-Hamas unity government which would work to cement Hamas’s international legitimacy.

Finally, in light of the White House’s silence after Sunday’s attempted attack on the IDF by a Hamas-affiliated terror group in Gaza, Mashaal is operating under the impression that nothing Hamas does will divert Washington from its collision course with Israel. With Obama in charge, Hamas believes it can attack Israel with impunity.

MB4 on June 13, 2009 at 8:26 PM

Update: Steve Hayes had better not hold his breath waiting for that Obama speech. The White House says it’s full speed ahead on “dialogue.”

Where the fools meet the thugs..errr..the thugs meet the fools..errr..ummm..how the hell do you tell them apart?

Speakup on June 13, 2009 at 8:28 PM

More disturbing than Mitchell’s positions are his marching orders from Obama. Unlike previous presidential envoys who have come to Israel every few weeks and then disappeared when reality proved stronger than their peace fantasies, Obama has ordered Mitchell to cast reality to the seven winds and set up a permanent forward command post in Jerusalem directly subordinate to the White House.

To fulfill his writ, Mitchell has appointed four deputies – all known for their open sympathy for the Palestinians and their hostility to the Netanyahu government. They are Mara Rudman, of the George Soros-financed Center for American Progress; Lt.-Gen. Keith Dayton who is now building a Fatah army in Jordan which he recently acknowledged will turn its American-financed guns on Israel within a few short years if Israel refuses to establish a Jew-free Palestinian state in Judea and Samaria; Fred Hoff, one of the greatest champions of a US-Syrian rapprochement and of an Israeli surrender of the Golan Heights; and David Hale, the architect of the current US policy of rebuilding the Hizbullah-infested Lebanese army. Hale will be permanently stationed in Jerusalem in a large office suite that will house Mitchell’s operation.
- Caroline Glick

MB4 on June 13, 2009 at 8:33 PM

Woops

Update: Steve Hayes had better not hold his breath waiting for that Obama speech. The White House says it’s full speed ahead on “dialogue.”

Where the fools meet the thugs..errr..the thugs meet the fools..errr..ummm..how the hell do you tell them apart?

Speakup on June 13, 2009 at 8:34 PM

I’m late to the party having been off to college and registering # 1 son for AFROTC.
However if this is scary to you now, wait until the Presidential elections of 2012. After all some parts of this country had more registered voters than registered citizens last time around.
ACORN wasn’t handed control of the census and give millions in Stimupaloosa for nothing!

2012 and possibly 2010 will be a repeat of the (Immadinnerjacket nowwithnukes) honest, open, fair, and above all landslide election in favor of our own Dem polls.

I’m considering planting Hemp ala WWII as the only solution may be to hang em high and let God sort em out.

dhunter on June 13, 2009 at 8:39 PM

I don’t think so. For one thing, I think Obama would have won even without ACORN. For another there are literally thousands of polling places in this country. In small towns like the one I live near here, I actually know the people who do the elections.

Terrye on June 13, 2009 at 7:25 PM

Unfortunately Obama’s minions are incredibly orchestrated and determined to keep the one in power. It’s going to take an army of conservative watchdogs to ATTEMPT to keep it clean…and who knows when they’ll be able to change all the rules with their “new and improved”, (gaga me) census.

Personally I plan to dog every senator and congressperson I can, (in my state and otherwise) to KNOW that their time is limited if they support this administrations wishlist.

anniekc on June 13, 2009 at 8:45 PM

* No wait, don’t “gaga me”, GAG ME!

anniekc on June 13, 2009 at 8:46 PM

Sounds a lot like what will happen here very soon.
I never thought it would… but we are there.

No we’re not.

We’re so far from Iran vis-a-vis elections and self-government that the Hubble Telescope would be useless.

Geez….

SteveMG on June 13, 2009 at 6:47 PM

I agree. We are no where near this.

I get the feeling that many here wanted the Psycho to win and was happy that he did because his win=Obama failure. However because the actual Iranian people are showing they did not want this now its time to spin this to death to reflect negatively on Obama.

Just like when the Leftards thought Bush was going to throw everyone in jail for dissent and purposely started the Iraq war to seize oil or started the “War on Terror” to nullify the Constitution so do Conservatives beat the same dumb drum again Obama.

Get a friggen grip! I thought you guys were the voices of reason?

Magnus on June 13, 2009 at 8:49 PM

We have to be careful at all costs. We should not go to war with any other nation. This is Israel’s problem.

True_King on June 13, 2009 at 8:51 PM

MB4 on June 13, 2009 at 8:33 PM

Didn’t Obama carry the Jewish vote in 2008……..?

Seven Percent Solution on June 13, 2009 at 8:55 PM

Get a friggen grip! I thought you guys were the voices of reason?

I think (hope?) some folks are just blowing off steam.

SteveMG on June 13, 2009 at 8:58 PM

Didn’t Obama carry the Jewish vote in 2008……..?

Seven Percent Solution on June 13, 2009 at 8:55 PM

I believe Obama carried majorities of every religious group except Evangelical Christians. It was a drubbing, remember.

Loxodonta on June 13, 2009 at 9:03 PM

Obama played his hand long before he was elected when he said he’d ‘dialogue’ with Tehran without preconditions. He has shown himself to be feckless and nothing has changed, since his election, for the Mullahs to have any higher opinion of him.

Let’s hope Israel does what Obama never will – have the grapes to take out Iran’s nukes – again.

redfoxbluestate on June 13, 2009 at 9:05 PM

Went out to our Fav eatery and our usual waiter ( Iranian student) was furious over it. Everyone he is in contact over there are ready to revolt. Could be the circles he travels but he claims it’s nationwide and across the entire demographic. Yobama would do well to stay out of it.

faol on June 13, 2009 at 9:09 PM

This was a military coup people. The Revolutionary Guard, not the Mullahs and not the President are the real power in Iran at this point. This is about the nuke. Fatwas have been issued.

After several polls taken by the government in May that indicated a rapid loss of support for the President, an ayatollah, who used to speak about political philosophy in Tehran’s public Friday prayers, held a confidential meeting with the elections’ supervisors. Quoting the Bagharah Soureh, verse 249, of the holy Quran, to justify vote fraud, he stated that,

“If someone is elected the president and hurts the Islamic values that have been spread [by Mr. Ahmadinejad] to Lebanon, Palestine, Venezuela, and other places, it is against Islam to vote for that person. We should not vote for that person, and also warn people about that person. It is your religious duty as the supervisors of the elections to do so.”

The ayatollah then harshly criticized the other candidates [Messrs Mir Hossein Mousavi, Mahdi Karroubi, and Mohsen Rezaaee],” and continued,

“You should throw away those who are unqualified, both morally and lawfully. Your highest call of duty at this time is to preserve your achievement.”

The letter continues,

“After the meeting the elections supervisors, who had become happy and energetic for having obtained the religious fatwa to use any trick for changing the votes, began immediately to develop plans for it.”

http://tehranbureau.com/2009/06/07/fatwa-issued-for-changing-the-vote-in-favor-of-ahmadinejad/

elduende on June 13, 2009 at 9:09 PM

Obama played his hand long before he was elected when he said he’d ‘dialogue’ with Tehran without preconditions. He has shown himself to be feckless and nothing has changed, since his election, for the Mullahs to have any higher opinion of him.

Let’s hope Israel does what Obama never will – have the grapes to take out Iran’s nukes – again.

redfoxbluestate on June 13, 2009 at 9:05 PM

Why isn’t Israel taking responsibility for Iran? Why is it on Obama or the US to do this? If Israel did it before the can do it again.

Magnus on June 13, 2009 at 9:10 PM

I think (hope?) some folks are just blowing off steam.

SteveMG on June 13, 2009 at 8:58 PM

With the speed of disintegration in this country what makes you so sure we are not heading for a third world mess in 2 years.
You seem pretty sure of things that are proving unpredictable and slipping away with every new day!

katy on June 13, 2009 at 9:14 PM

Why isn’t Israel taking responsibility for Iran? Why is it on Obama or the US to do this? If Israel did it before the can do it again.

Magnus on June 13, 2009 at 9:10 PM

Undoubtedly Israel will do so, in the end. It would be nice if the US would help a little by doing things they have refused to do so far, like let them use Iraqi airspace (which would greatly shorten the distance they have to travel) and provide them with the bunker busters they’ve refused them (which would greatly increase their chances of success).

ProfessorMiao on June 13, 2009 at 9:16 PM

The United States has a moral obligation to the Iranian people. They deserve democracy and liberty, just like all the peoples of the world. Obama’s response to the current situation in Iran is a betrayal of America’s long history of supporting liberty and democracy.

In my view, however, we have an even greater obligation to the people of Israel. Never again should the world stand by and allow another holocaust against the Jews. And we should not allow the destruction of the Jewish State. And it really doesn’t matter to me how many American Jews voted for Obama or are willing to turn their backs to threats against Israel. Never again means never again.

Loxodonta on June 13, 2009 at 9:17 PM

I believe Obama carried majorities of every religious group except Evangelical Christians. It was a drubbing, remember.

Loxodonta on June 13, 2009 at 9:03 PM

Evangelicals to the death chambers first… eh, heck, “we” will make room for you lox ;) “We” always appreciate our devout Catholic brothers and sisters.

Upstater85 on June 13, 2009 at 9:18 PM

I think (hope?) some folks are just blowing off steam.

SteveMG on June 13, 2009 at 8:58 PM

With the speed of disintegration in this country what makes you so sure we are not heading for a third world mess in 2 years.
You seem pretty sure of things that are proving unpredictable and slipping away with every new day!

katy on June 13, 2009 at 9:14 PM

Easy,

We have faith in America. You sound like a liberal. This was the same sewage they were spewing when Bush was elected and then re-elected and the Conservatives when Clinton won, that the America was done for good. We’re still here and still the strongest free nation on earth.

Magnus on June 13, 2009 at 9:18 PM

The United States has a moral obligation to the Iranian people. They deserve democracy and liberty, just like all the peoples of the world. Obama’s response to the current situation in Iran is a betrayal of America’s long history of supporting liberty and democracy.

In my view, however, we have an even greater obligation to the people of Israel. Never again should the world stand by and allow another holocaust against the Jews. And we should not allow the destruction of the Jewish State. And it really doesn’t matter to me how many American Jews voted for Obama or are willing to turn their backs to threats against Israel. Never again means never again.

Loxodonta on June 13, 2009 at 9:17 PM

Great post.

I would add that aside from not allowing a Jewish Holocaust and supporting a Jewish State, we have a very long standing friendship that should never be forgotten.

Upstater85 on June 13, 2009 at 9:19 PM

Magnus on June 13, 2009 at 9:10 PM

Why shoudl Israel be alone in taking Iran out. WhY?!!!

Iran is a global threat. Iran has called the US the great Satan. Iran has threatened us, Israel, Europe.
Why is this Israel’s responsibility?

katy on June 13, 2009 at 9:20 PM

Now is the perfect time for an Israeli attack. The Mullahs are in a position of weakness. They are preoccupied stealing an election and quelling popular discontent. An attack focusing on five limited target groups should do nicely in pushing the mullahs, helping the students, and mitigating Israeli operational issues 1) Air defense network 2) Nuclear Program 3) Regime specific targets including the VAVAK 4) the Revolutionary Guard and Basji Militias 5) strategic counter force assets

elduende on June 13, 2009 at 4:01 PM

Completely wrong.

The Mullahs would use this to unify opposition against outside forces while increasing their control over the populace.

This is completely the Mullahs problem… let them own it.

Skywise on June 13, 2009 at 4:07 PM

I’m sorry I didn’t respond I didn’t see your post.

When do you think would be a more propitious time for Israel to attack then? Should they wait for the Mullahs and the Revolutionary Guard to finish quelling the dissent or should they wait until after the Revolutionary Guard and the Mullah’s consolidate their coup? Or do you think that in the unlikely event the opposition installs Mousavi the Iranians are going to give up their Nuke program?

elduende on June 13, 2009 at 9:20 PM

We have faith in America. You sound like a liberal. This was the same sewage they were spewing when Bush was elected and then re-elected and the Conservatives when Clinton won, that the America was done for good. We’re still here and still the strongest free nation on earth.

Magnus on June 13, 2009 at 9:18 PM

Yah Bonehead, I’m a liberal….
You must be new here. A newbee. Or a complete ignoranus. Pay closer attention to the commenters before you expose your idiocy.

katy on June 13, 2009 at 9:23 PM

And it really doesn’t matter to me how many American Jews voted for Obama or are willing to turn their backs to threats against Israel. Never again means never again.

Loxodonta on June 13, 2009 at 9:17 PM

Amen. Bravissimo!

The majority of American Jews’ connection to Israel is fictive in the sense that they really don’t have a solid understanding of the milieu in which Israel exists and struggle to survive and thrive. They are so steeped in Democratic party style liberalism that they really think that they know what is better for Israel than Israelis do.

ProfessorMiao on June 13, 2009 at 9:23 PM

Now is the perfect time for an Israeli attack. The Mullahs are in a position of weakness. They are preoccupied stealing an election and quelling popular discontent. An attack focusing on five limited target groups should do nicely in pushing the mullahs, helping the students, and mitigating Israeli operational issues 1) Air defense network 2) Nuclear Program 3) Regime specific targets including the VAVAK 4) the Revolutionary Guard and Basji Militias 5) strategic counter force assets

elduende on June 13, 2009 at 4:01 PM

Completely wrong.

The Mullahs would use this to unify opposition against outside forces while increasing their control over the populace.

This is completely the Mullahs problem… let them own it.

Skywise on June 13, 2009 at 4:07 PM

I’m sorry I didn’t respond I didn’t see your post.

When do you think would be a more propitious time for Israel to attack then? Should they wait for the Mullahs and the Revolutionary Guard to finish quelling the dissent or should they wait until after the Revolutionary Guard and the Mullah’s consolidate their coup? Or do you think that in the unlikely event the opposition installs Mousavi the Iranians are going to give up their Nuke program?

elduende on June 13, 2009 at 9:20 PM

I think his point though was that this would most likely not bring around a good sort of “revolution” in Iran. Israel has the right to defend herself, but don’t expect an Israeli attack on Iran to win the hearts and minds of the controlled/ignorant majority in Iran.

Upstater85 on June 13, 2009 at 9:24 PM

Get a friggen grip! I thought you guys were the voices of reason?

Magnus on June 13, 2009 at 8:49 PM

Let me explain this to you.

1) It didn’t matter who won the “election” in Iran, insofar as Iran’s threat to the civilized world. Is it better that Iran show its true face? Yes, it is. But, look! It doesn’t matter. The traitors in Washington (and they are traitors) don’t care anyway, because all they care about is destroying Israel.

2) People who are acting as if the arrest of Mousavi (a disgusting dirtbag who was just as bad as Achmahdhdjad) is something so foreign to the US, let me just remind you people that, while that was foreign to the traditional US, you seem to forget that we have a junta in Washingotn now that set out, as one of their first acts, to run “truth commissions” (a la some third world sh!thole) in order to jail the opposition party – specifically, the last adminstration. These disgusting pigs even went so far as to try to criminalize the Presidential advisors for the legal advice they gave. If it hadn’t been for Cheney fighting back and beating them into a pulp, who knows where their “truth commissions” would ahve gone? This was worse than what Iran just did with the rat Mousavi.

Anyone who doesn’t understand these simple issues, and what they mean, needs to get a grip on reality.

progressoverpeace on June 13, 2009 at 9:25 PM

Magnus on June 13, 2009 at 9:18 PM

Clinton had nothing on the maniac that’s in charge now.

Naive little bugger you are.

katy on June 13, 2009 at 9:25 PM

Magnus on June 13, 2009 at 9:10 PM

Why shoudl Israel be alone in taking Iran out. WhY?!!!

Iran is a global threat. Iran has called the US the great Satan. Iran has threatened us, Israel, Europe.
Why is this Israel’s responsibility?

katy on June 13, 2009 at 9:20 PM

Because Iran vowed to blow Israel off the map.

Magnus on June 13, 2009 at 9:26 PM

Magnus on June 13, 2009 at 9:10 PM

Why shoudl Israel be alone in taking Iran out. WhY?!!!

Iran is a global threat. Iran has called the US the great Satan. Iran has threatened us, Israel, Europe.
Why is this Israel’s responsibility?

katy on June 13, 2009 at 9:20 PM

Because Iran vowed to blow Israel off the map.

Magnus on June 13, 2009 at 9:26 PM

You seem to be saying that America should NOT stand by her allies when they are threatened. Is that what you are saying?

ProfessorMiao on June 13, 2009 at 9:30 PM

Why shoudl Israel be alone in taking Iran out. WhY?!!!

Iran is a global threat. Iran has called the US the great Satan. Iran has threatened us, Israel, Europe.
Why is this Israel’s responsibility?

katy on June 13, 2009 at 9:20 PM

Because Iran vowed to blow Israel off the map.

Magnus on June 13, 2009 at 9:26 PM

I don’t really see how this answers her question.

Upstater85 on June 13, 2009 at 9:31 PM

Because Iran vowed to blow Israel off the map.

Magnus on June 13, 2009 at 9:26 PM

What I am saying… and I’ll say it real slow cause you seem to really be pissing me off tonight….
I am well aware fo Iran’s threat to Israel.
What I’m saying is why is this JUST….. JUST Israel’s responsibility?

katy on June 13, 2009 at 9:32 PM

Upstater85 on June 13, 2009 at 9:24 PM

Fair enough Upstater but I’m not looking at this from the perspective of what’s best for Iran though. I’m looking at it from brutal reality that the post election chaos has weakened the regime.

Whether the internal consequences of an attack are beneficial or not to the opposition should not weigh too heavily in any Israeli decision. From an Israeli strategic perspective when an enemy like Iran is distracted and you are contemplating hitting him in the near future you hit him hard now and let the chips fall where they may in Tehran.

elduende on June 13, 2009 at 9:32 PM

They’re living on HOPE!

SouthernGent on June 13, 2009 at 9:33 PM

Fair enough Upstater but I’m not looking at this from the perspective of what’s best for Iran though. I’m looking at it from brutal reality that the post election chaos has weakened the regime.

Whether the internal consequences of an attack are beneficial or not to the opposition should not weigh too heavily in any Israeli decision. From an Israeli strategic perspective when an enemy like Iran is distracted and you are contemplating hitting him in the near future you hit him hard now and let the chips fall where they may in Tehran.

elduende on June 13, 2009 at 9:32 PM

Agreed… Sorry. I know some in here were claiming the Iranians would come rallying to the streets. My point is, who cares? Just let Israel protect herself, and if it’s not too hard, team Barry could help out.

Upstater85 on June 13, 2009 at 9:34 PM

I was called naive when I made the observation that while George Bush wasn’t the brightest bulb in the bunch, I didn’t think he purposely started two wars for the benefit of Haliburton and an oil grab. Or that he planned 9/11 or knew about it before hand and “let” it happen in order to start said wars.

This is really a two sides of the same coin situation.

Magnus on June 13, 2009 at 9:34 PM

Heck, America kissed up to Maoist terrorist Prachand after a rigged election. Barry’s sure to bend over for Mahmoud.

Christien on June 13, 2009 at 9:35 PM

progressoverpeace on June 13, 2009 at 9:25 PM

Well said. And I could feel the emotion in that one and agree.

katy on June 13, 2009 at 9:35 PM

I was called naive when I made the observation that while George Bush wasn’t the brightest bulb in the bunch, I didn’t think he purposely started two wars for the benefit of Haliburton and an oil grab. Or that he planned 9/11 or knew about it before hand and “let” it happen in order to start said wars.

This is really a two sides of the same coin situation.

Magnus on June 13, 2009 at 9:34 PM

Instead of blathering nonsensically, why not answer a simple yes/no question:

Should America stand by her allies when they are threatened with nuclear annhilation?

ProfessorMiao on June 13, 2009 at 9:37 PM

I was called naive when I made the observation that while George Bush wasn’t the brightest bulb in the bunch, I didn’t think he purposely started two wars for the benefit of Haliburton and an oil grab. Or that he planned 9/11 or knew about it before hand and “let” it happen in order to start said wars.

This is really a two sides of the same coin situation.

Magnus on June 13, 2009 at 9:34 PM

How conservative of you to remind us all of your …. well… anti-truther positions.

Bravo!

katy on June 13, 2009 at 9:38 PM

Yah Bonehead, I’m a liberal….
You must be new here. A newbee. Or a complete ignoranus. Pay closer attention to the commenters before you expose your idiocy.

katy on June 13, 2009 at 9:23 PM

i hate it when they open comment registration. I know that’s how we all came here, but, sheesh…it always takes awhile to weed them out again.

Mommypundit on June 13, 2009 at 9:39 PM

and if it’s not too hard, team Barry could help out.

Upstater85 on June 13, 2009 at 9:34 PM

Not going to happen! I believe this is what ‘Slow Joe Obiden” was talking about when he babbled that something would happen in the first six months, something that the response to, would not be as we wished and that The Presidente Pinnochio would need supporters to stand beside him. I think Slow Joe O’Biden knew Pinnochio was going to sell out Israel!

“Say it isn’t so Joe!”
Sarah Palin 2008
Thanks for fight, fight, fighting Sarah even if John ef’n McCain wouldn’t/won’t.

dhunter on June 13, 2009 at 9:40 PM

I would like to know exactly what the Iranian on the street means by Revolution. Would they be content if the current little creep was displaced? And would the Mullahs allow them to show that kind of dissent before the military is let loose on them.

Cindy Munford on June 13, 2009 at 9:41 PM

katy on June 13, 2009 at 9:35 PM

Thanks, katy.

progressoverpeace on June 13, 2009 at 9:43 PM

Mommypundit on June 13, 2009 at 9:39 PM

Yup. Time to get out the troll-be-gone spray.

katy on June 13, 2009 at 9:43 PM

dhunter on June 13, 2009 at 9:40 PM

Yeah, not counting on it, but it doesn’t mean we can’t give him heck…

Upstater85 on June 13, 2009 at 9:43 PM

Yah Bonehead, I’m a liberal….
You must be new here. A newbee. Or a complete ignoranus. Pay closer attention to the commenters before you expose your idiocy.

katy on June 13, 2009 at 9:23 PM
.
Magnus might be a RINO or a DINO.
.

Americannodash on June 13, 2009 at 9:43 PM

Yup. Time to get out the troll-be-gone spray.

katy on June 13, 2009 at 9:43 PM

LOL! Where can I get me some of that?

ProfessorMiao on June 13, 2009 at 9:44 PM

I would like to know exactly what the Iranian on the street means by Revolution. Would they be content if the current little creep was displaced? And would the Mullahs allow them to show that kind of dissent before the military is let loose on them.

Cindy Munford on June 13, 2009 at 9:41 PM

Yeah, me too. We saw how their last revolution turned out.

Upstater85 on June 13, 2009 at 9:44 PM

In a sane world ( which we know it is not, even within our own nation) we would look at the middle east “crisis” objectively and stand solidly behind Little Israel and any other strong, fair, democratic nation which seeks peace through strength. It is a global duty to protect Israel and take out rogue states like Iran for international security, as well as for the betterment of Iranians. i cannot believe we are seeing these days, actually…and I can’t believe someone here said it was Israel’s “problem.” Nice.

Mommypundit on June 13, 2009 at 9:44 PM

LOL! Where can I get me some of that?

ProfessorMiao on June 13, 2009 at 9:44 PM

Wouldn’t that be nice if we could…

katy on June 13, 2009 at 9:49 PM

Upstater85 on June 13, 2009 at 9:44 PM

It’s a great feeling, not understanding what it really going on there and being scared to death of what our current administration will do about it. Can he throw some money at it? It seems to be his cure for everything.

Cindy Munford on June 13, 2009 at 9:50 PM

Can he throw some money at it? It seems to be his cure for everything.

Cindy Munford on June 13, 2009 at 9:50 PM

Hands down this is what he’ll do with NorK

Upstater85 on June 13, 2009 at 9:51 PM

Its not officially a rigged election until Carter declares it valid.

Chuck Schick on June 13, 2009 at 9:51 PM

and I can’t believe someone here said it was Israel’s “problem.” Nice.

Mommypundit on June 13, 2009 at 9:44 PM

There are somethings that get my dander up and this is one of those things.
Israel is the soul of this world. If she is destroyed God help us all.
This grieves me more than any other things out there.

katy on June 13, 2009 at 9:52 PM

he dominant view among Obama administration officials is that the regime will look so bad as a result of whipping up Iranian hopes for democracy and then squelching them that the regime may feel compelled to show some conciliatory response to Obama’s gestures of engagement.

Can they show themselves to be any more narcissistic? Everything is really all about them, isn’t it?

AZfederalist on June 13, 2009 at 9:54 PM

Rise of the Revolutionary Guard.
http://americanfootprints.com/drupal/node/4435

elduende on June 13, 2009 at 9:55 PM

Magnus might be a RINO or a DINO.
.

Americannodash on June 13, 2009 at 9:43 PM

Or a WINO or a WHINO.

At this point, it’s just an OH, NO!

Loxodonta on June 13, 2009 at 9:55 PM

Magnus on June 13, 2009 at 9:34 PM

Dear New Person,

Ask questions and make sure your really understand the point of a comment before throwing insults about trolls, liberals and unreasonable people. Just trying to help.

Cindy Munford on June 13, 2009 at 9:55 PM

I would like to know exactly what the Iranian on the street means by Revolution

Indeed. They’re against the current regime. Great.

But what do they want to replace it with?

I can’t believe that the Revolutionary Guard and other hardliners will give up their positions so easily.

This isn’t going to be like Marcos where the regimes are replace almost overnight. This is a months old process; the question is whether the protesters can keep up for that long.

SteveMG on June 13, 2009 at 9:56 PM

Its not officially a rigged election until Carter declares it valid.

Chuck Schick on June 13, 2009 at 9:51 PM
.
Those were the days when people trusted him. /s
.

Americannodash on June 13, 2009 at 9:56 PM

Upstater85 on June 13, 2009 at 9:51 PM

I hate to point out that it was tried and failed by W.

Cindy Munford on June 13, 2009 at 9:56 PM

Why shoudl Israel be alone in taking Iran out. WhY?!!!

Iran is a global threat. Iran has called the US the great Satan. Iran has threatened us, Israel, Europe.
Why is this Israel’s responsibility?

katy on June 13, 2009 at 9:20 PM

Because Iran vowed to blow Israel off the map.

Magnus on June 13, 2009 at 9:26 PM

I don’t really see how this answers her question.

Basically Israel needs to do whatever they need to do to protect itself. It is our obligation to provide support. If we don’t they still need to do it. But why this problem is being placed %100 on the shoulders of the US I don’t know.

If lets say Obama would not lift one sticking finger to help Israel, period(which indication here are that this is the case). Should they sit by and let Iran carry our their plans of annihilation?

Magnus on June 13, 2009 at 9:58 PM

i hate it when they open comment registration. I know that’s how we all came here, but, sheesh…it always takes awhile to weed them out again.

Mommypundit on June 13, 2009 at 9:39 PM

This one has been around since the March registration. It posts infrequently.

Loxodonta on June 13, 2009 at 9:58 PM

Whether he knows it or not or is too arrogant to admit it Obama’s foreign policy towards Iran lies in ruins tonight. Obama’s credibility and his “approach” has been tattered by the Mullahs.

I’m actually hoping the tone deaf moron doesn’t change a thing because it will continue to damage him politically here at home.

elduende on June 13, 2009 at 9:59 PM

Or a WINO or a WHINO.

At this point, it’s just an OH, NO!

Loxodonta on June 13, 2009 at 9:55 PM
.
Hello beautiful!

Americannodash on June 13, 2009 at 9:59 PM

Magnus on June 13, 2009 at 9:34 PM

Dear New Person,

Ask questions and make sure your really understand the point of a comment before throwing insults about trolls, liberals and unreasonable people. Just trying to help.

Cindy Munford on June 13, 2009 at 9:55 PM

I never called anyone a troll. I’m the troll apparently. I understand the comments well. I just have my own opinion.

Magnus on June 13, 2009 at 10:00 PM

Gee… almost as rigged as our stupid election! Thanks again, obama voters.

ErinF on June 13, 2009 at 10:06 PM

Magnus on June 13, 2009 at 10:00 PM

You called katy a liberal. Those a few and far between here. It’s okay to have your own opinion and you might even change someone’s mind. Your explanation at 9:58 was better.

Cindy Munford on June 13, 2009 at 10:06 PM

Magnus on June 13, 2009 at 10:00 PM

Hey folks I’ll stand up for Magnus. He doesn’t seem like a troll to me. Hold your fire for some of the nasty trolls that did come in this week though. Good grief there are about 10 of them in here now that are real pieces of work.

elduende on June 13, 2009 at 10:07 PM

Magnus on June 13, 2009 at 10:00 PM
.
Pssst, you have apparently an understanding of a your own opinion not others on this thread.
.
See you later, bye bye then.
.

Americannodash on June 13, 2009 at 10:07 PM

Sorry… But Barry is so over his head with this turn of events. No amount of thought on our parts can come close to imagining what his next move will be. Perhaps a trip to Disney World to fulfill a campaign promise he made to one of the kids. Or maybe an unannounced DC wide anthrax drill, complete with white powder spraying and foe marshal law.
-
Seriously, all we can count on with Odumbsh*t is that it will be really silly, yet very costly. And don’t forget downplayed and excused by the MSM.
-

RalphyBoy on June 13, 2009 at 10:08 PM

Magnus on June 13, 2009 at 10:00 PM

I apologize for being dense, and for offending you in any way, but I honestly do not understand your views regarding this issue. It you help me personally to understand your views better if you would comment as clearly as you can on my post here, or on progressoverpeace’s post here.

And if you don’t want to, that’s OK. I will try to keep an open mind, but I do find your posts very confusing.

Loxodonta on June 13, 2009 at 10:10 PM

Quite frankly my issue is that I see the exact same illogical reactions, hoplessness, and predicting of the end of times and end of the USA that the Left had with Bush. And they seem to still have with Bush if you frequent Huffington Post(And those on the dark side are of the mind that conservatives wanted Ahmadinijackass to win). Which of course I thought was absurd until coming to this thread.

From Spicy Mustardgate to equating the people of Iran finally speaking pushing back against their psycho leaders = Obama fail.

I don’t get it and maybe I won’t ever. But it could be my so called trollality.

Magnus on June 13, 2009 at 10:13 PM

Hello beautiful!

Americannodash on June 13, 2009 at 9:59 PM

Hello to you, too. Nobody has ever called me beautiful before. However, I have been introduced as “the sweetest little thing in the whole wide world!”

Loxodonta on June 13, 2009 at 10:13 PM

Loxodonta on June 13, 2009 at 10:13 PM
.
Better than jumping out of a cake then.
.
Letterman should take some pointers/notes from them.
.

Americannodash on June 13, 2009 at 10:20 PM

Some of those on our right side, react in a rather curious manner to what appears to be simmering revolution In Iran?

“Both the apparent victory and the apparent fraud greatly complicate the Obama strategy. My advice is that they had better be thinking about more sanctions. The one hope might be that if a new Ahmadinejad government is viewed as illegitimate by many Iranians, that government might be anxious to avoid further economic distress. In that context, sanctions that bite might be a powerful tool and might push the regime into a serious negotiation. But it is more likely that the [Obama’s] engagement strategy has been dealt a very heavy blow.” ~ Elliott Abrams

And then there is this…

“I’m sometimes asked who I would vote for if I were enfranchised in this election, and I think that, with due hesitance, I would vote for Ahmadinejad.” ~ Daniel Pipes

A more moderate president would threaten to puncture the hysterical and apocalyptic atmosphere in which discussion of the Iranian nuclear program is currently conducted. ~ Daniel Luban

It would appear some folks just can’t abide a “the smell of cordite in the morning”?

Geezer on June 13, 2009 at 10:26 PM

elduende on June 13, 2009 at 10:07 PM

We have faith in America. You sound like a liberal. This was the same sewage they were spewing when Bush was elected and then re-elected and the Conservatives when Clinton won, that the America was done for good. We’re still here and still the strongest free nation on earth.

Magnus on June 13, 2009 at 9:18 PM

I’ll hold my fire until someone makes a comment to me this shtoopid.

katy on June 13, 2009 at 10:28 PM

Loxodonta on June 13, 2009 at 10:13 PM

Beautiful,huh? So does that make you a metrosexual?

Cindy Munford on June 13, 2009 at 10:29 PM

katy on June 13, 2009 at 10:28 PM

You were provoked, not doubt about it.

Cindy Munford on June 13, 2009 at 10:30 PM

everyone love each other

blatantblue on June 13, 2009 at 10:33 PM

Metrosexual? Is that when a couple people do it on a bus?
,

Americannodash on June 13, 2009 at 10:33 PM

Americannodash on June 13, 2009 at 10:33 PM

I goofing on you. Just making sure you know that Loxodonta is a gentleman because I misidentified him at first.

Cindy Munford on June 13, 2009 at 10:36 PM

katy on June 13, 2009 at 10:28 PM

Fair enough Katy. Hmmmm, ok so its a bit awkwardly worded and Magnus should know that calling someone here a liberal is just about the worst thing I can think of if they aren’t.

That said lets cut him a little slack. No one here, that has seen your posts would confuse you for a liberal and now Magnus knows he should be a little more circumspect before he labels somebody and choose what he says a little better. Lord knows I fly off the cuff sometimes and write something risque and inappropriate (usually extremely inciendiary and folks here have given me the benefit of the doubt). Besides there are some really nasty trolls here now.

elduende on June 13, 2009 at 10:36 PM

Cindy Munford on June 13, 2009 at 10:30 PM

Yes, Thanks. I was. There’s nothing worse than being labeled a liberal. Well maybe waterboarding but… it’s close.

blatantblue on June 13, 2009 at 10:33 PM

It’s all good BB. Love hurts…sometimes.

katy on June 13, 2009 at 10:38 PM

elduende on June 13, 2009 at 10:36 PM

Fair enough….

trolls be on alert….
now, back to Iran….

katy on June 13, 2009 at 10:42 PM

I goofing on you. Just making sure you know that Loxodonta is a gentleman because I misidentified him at first.

Cindy Munford on June 13, 2009 at 10:36 PM
.
Thanks for the update. I formally amend my previous comment from the B-word to “A Beautiful Mind”. Loved that movie BTW. I should have pick up Harpo reference. Jesus, do I feel stupid now. >>>>>>>> Okay, I’m over it now. NEXT!

Americannodash on June 13, 2009 at 10:44 PM

katy on June 13, 2009 at 10:38 PM

The weird thing is that you might have actually agreed with him/her. The posts weren’t clear. One of the first times that I commented I totally misunderstood someone’s comments. It wasn’t pretty. Now I always ask for clarification before I tell someone their a horse’s patoot.

Cindy Munford on June 13, 2009 at 10:45 PM

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