I think the big danger here is to the reputation of Bermuda. They rely entirely upon tourism for their income – who would want to go there knowing a bunch of Guantanamo terrorists are walking around free as a bird to do whatever they want?

Putting aside the insult to us Brits which is pretty much par for the course from Obama these days, it has done terrible damage to the Bermudan tourism industry.

The thought of bombs in paradise does’t go down too well in travel brochures, especially at a time when the credit crunch is crippling the tourist industry.

Someone in Bermuda seriously hasn’t thought this through.

If the great and the good of Europe and America — highly educated visionaries that they are — can’t understand that importing Islam was, and is, suicidally foolish then there is no reason to expect that the leaders of Bermuda will see the danger either.

YiZhangZhe on June 12, 2009 at 11:21 PM

Well, the great and good in America are the American people and they have made their wishes known. As to the great and good in Europe, well, I often wonder just how overrun they might have been if it hadn’t been for President Bush. They man they love to hate is the very person who pulled back the veil of the threat of Islam that had been spreading silently across Europe. They owe their future to the very man they disdain.

What I really would like to know and hopefully it will eventually come to light is… WHO came up with this idea and what did the PM of Bermuda gain from it?

Or maybe they ought to be worried about the next decade or so as this little foursome becomes a colony of separatists who eventually decide they want their own country on the same island.

Texas Gal on June 12, 2009 at 10:29 PM

Yes. But almost all the governments of the supposedly civilised world seem to be in denial about the expansive intentions of the Islamic world.

Their partly-stuffed heads are so tightly bound to their ill-conceived legislation to respect and preserve wild-life at any cost that when confronted by a hungry tiger, they are incapable of conceiving a lawful and respectful plan to avoid being eaten.

If the great and the good of Europe and America — highly educated visionaries that they are — can’t understand that importing Islam was, and is, suicidally foolish then there is no reason to expect that the leaders of Bermuda will see the danger either.

The only people who aren’t happy are a few ‘little, unimportant people’ in Bermuda and the UK who might think yet more Muslims is a bad idea at any time.
YiZhangZhe on June 12, 2009 at 10:05 PM

I think I understand your motivation behind your creative hypothesis. Seems the little unimportant people you refer to in Bermuda consist of citizens and elected officials and it seems that their objection isn’t to more Muslims but rather to Muslims who were captured at Tora Bora and crossing over into Pakistan during the American bombardment and who had been trained by AQ to carry out terrorists attacks in their home country. I mean what could go wrong especially in a global economic crisis for a little island that get 80% of their GPD from tourism? Maybe they can create a new tourist attraction and have the Uighurs set up a AQ-style training facility and launch a new reality TV program right there on the island.

Or maybe they ought to be worried about the next decade or so as this little foursome becomes a colony of separatists who eventually decide they want their own country on the same island.

(*) China has saved face without actually having to do anything.
(quoting myself)

The reason China saves face is a little convoluted.

If these men had been transferred to, say, France or Germany or directly to the UK mainland then China would either have to meekly not ask for them, or ask and get rebuffed. Either scenario involves loss of face. Also if China is rebuffed then, in order to regain ‘face’ it would need to retaliate in some way, but China wouldn’t really want a conflict over something so minor … the conflict would just be a face-saving exercise, not real angst.

However if the men are transferred to places that have no formal connection with China then China cannot exactly ask directly. Since China cannot really ask, it cannot be rebuffed so it cannot lose face in that way. China can still register a formal protest but when a tiny and unimportant state/territory ignores that protest it is not humiliating for China as rebuffal by a large state would be.

So, it is conceivable that far from being a stupid move by the USA government, it is actually a very smart move that spares China a loss-of-face problem, avoids an unnecessary and pointless diplomatic conflict with China, and avoids a political conflict in the USA.

The concept of ‘face’ is very important in China. The loss-of-face I have talked about might be both nationally (in the PRCs dealings ith its neighbours), and also within the PRC government … i.e. the diplomats or politicians whose job it would be to demand the return of the Uighers.

Texas Gal on June 12, 2009 at 9:21 PM

Perhaps we have a slight misunderstanding.

If my speculative hypothesis is correct then yes, as you suggest, the US government has done this to shift the problem to the UK government.

What I am adding to that suggestion is the idea that this might have been done with the knowledge and connivance of some senior person in the UK government, perhaps as a favour by Mr Brown to Mr Obama. In that case the USA official who said the UK was not informed was lying, and the protests of the UK government were merely theatrics.

In other words, if my speculative hypothesis is correct, the USA government actually hasn’t gone behind anybody’s back … but everybody (USA, Bermuda and UK) is pretending that the USA has done a sneaky thing in order that these men can be free and everybody can deny responsibility for the deal if China asks.

(*) The USA was already in trouble with China for not giving them back, so no change.
(*) The UK can say they were never asked but now there is nothing they can legally do. This keeps Mr Brown out of trouble with China and with his own electorate.
(*) And Bermuda can play all innocent and say they are just a little country that isn’t allowed to have direct contact with China and they never realised this was a big issue.

Everybody in the game is happy:

(*) Mr Obama gets rid of a very tricky problem.
(*) The UK can use this favour to pay for some past or future favour that the UK might have had, or might want, from the USA.
(*) The Uighers get jobs in a place that is almost certainly 20x nicer than their former homes in Xinjiang.
(*) China has saved face without actually having to do anything.
(*) Bermuda can use the favour to pay for past or future favours it might want from the USA or UK.

The only people who aren’t happy are a few ‘little, unimportant people’ in Bermuda and the UK who might think yet more Muslims is a bad idea at any time.

Is my hypothesis correct? Really, I have no idea … it is pure speculation.

Is it feasible? Hmmm, it has some weaknesses; for example it could adversely affect Bermuda’s reputation. Also if the supposed deal is ever revealed there could be political repercussions for the Bermuda government and for Mr Brown, but Mr Brown is already almost dead politically.

Is it possible? These are politicians and diplomats we are thinking about; I try not to be cynical, but they are consummate liars.

They won’t extradite the Uighurs to China unless China agrees not to execute them. If we wouldn’t give them to China, I doubt that the UK will but now they have a real problem that was created by our president not to mention the internal problem they now have with their territory.

I tell you what, if Obama really thought this was a wonderful idea and didn’t see the consequences of his actions, we are in for a world of hurt .. literally.

YiZhangZhe on June 12, 2009 at 8:54 PM

I don’t disagree that the Brits can say that, but it doesn’t ease the fact that by formal agreement Bermuda was obligated to inform the Brits of this negotiation as it is a foreign affairs matter and the Brits are responsible for the security of that territory. And it doesn’t do anything to avoid the international relations problem that the Brits now face with the Chinese. Sounds to me that if that was the strategy of the Obama administration, it was a very flawed reasoning. The Chinese can still apply pressure on the Brits to turn over their citizens. What it does do is shift the problem to the UK government since they too have a policy of not transferring a citizen of another country if the said country has a death penalty. That it seems to me was the motive behind this move, to transfer the problem to the UK and out of Obama’s hands.

If that is the case, then since Bermuda is a British territory, how does going behind the UK’s back on this deal put them in a better position now that they actually have possession of Chinese citizens that China wants back?

Texas Gal on June 12, 2009 at 8:34 PM

Bermuda has a fair amount of Autonomy but the UK has responsibility for its foreign affairs and security. If asked the UK can say that while it didn’t want these men and would never have agreed to admit them, now that they are there a different set of considerations applies, i.e. asylum, human rights legislation, Bermudan autonomy in citizenship matters, or whatever.

“Wastin’ away again in Marga-Uighurville……”

or

“Chinese Uighur in paradise……”

YiZhangZhe on June 12, 2009 at 8:08 PM

If that is the case, then since Bermuda is a British territory, how does going behind the UK’s back on this deal put them in a better position now that they actually have possession of Chinese citizens that China wants back?

I call bs on that excuse. I agree it was a deliberate decision not to inform the UK government, but that was because Obama knew they would say no, just like Merkel in Germany NOT because Obama was trying to give the Brits deniability. He’s now created an international relations problem for the Brits and a sovereignty issue between them and a territory.

Could it be that this was actually a carefully arranged plan with the UK doing the USA a discreet, deniable, off-the-record favour?

YiZhangZhe on June 12, 2009 at 8:08 PM

We have a winner.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8098341.stm

That still leaves the question of why the Bermudan government didn’t inform the UK government.

Could it be that this was actually a carefully arranged plan with the UK doing the USA a discreet, deniable, off-the-record favour?

Total agree, the reason she took the Secretary of State job gives her a new platform from which to shine.

Perfect platform to lay in wait. I suggest when she leaves it will be very public and will center on an issue that she owns an upper hand on.

He will be blindsided by a kind of politics that makes the Chicago Way look like kindergarten play time.

Old Bill is probably scripting the ordeal as we speak.

Act one has been letting The One dry on the vine concerning Guantanamo. Of course this Uighur mess is blowing up. A good politician would never handle it so poorly.

Hillary, while not likable is a very shrewd politician. She could take command of the Guantanamo mess but is too smart to help.

Act two is anyone’s guess but by act 4 grab the popcorn and tune in to watch the two pros deconstruct The One.

to the libs: “i did what i could for those poor Chinese men; i sent them to a nice country”.

to the conservatives: i circumvented all those whacko libs by sending the terrorists to Bermuda first when i planned all along for them to go back to China.

“This is not just about Uighurs in Bermuda, though that issue typifies a style of leadership that is reckless, autocratic and conducted with no sense of accountability to the people or, indeed, to Bermuda’s Constitution.”

Sound like anyone we know?