Government insurance will kill private insurance
posted at 1:45 pm on June 10, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
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Democrats have taken great care to make the new health-care plans hitting the House and Senate this week look like anything but single-payer, socialized medicine. They insist that they want to maintain the private insurers in the market and give Americans choices in coverage. However, by pushing for a government-run plan to “keep insurers honest,” they have created a Trojan horse for socialized medicine, as Ronald Baily explains at Reason:
In his weekly radio address on Saturday, President Barack Obama declared that “it’s time to deliver” on health care reform. In a letter to Sen. Edward Kennedy (D-Mass.) and Sen. Max Baucus (D-Mont.), President Obama wrote, “I strongly believe that Americans should have the choice of a public health insurance option operating alongside private plans. This will give them a better range of choices, make the health care market more competitive, and keep insurance companies honest.” This week Sen. Kennedy released a draft of his proposed “American Health Choices Act” which includes one such optional public health insurance plan. The administration’s goal is to report that bill out of the relevant Senate committees by the end of this month.
Earlier this week, Republican lawmakers sent a letter of their own, strongly warning the president that “Washington-run programs undermine market-based competition through their ability to impose price controls and shift costs to other purchasers. Forcing free market plans to compete with these government-run programs would create an unlevel playing field and inevitably doom true competition.”
When have we seen this before? Oh, yes … Medicare:
Defenders of the public option quickly point out that Kennedy’s American Health Choices Act promises to pay health care providers 10 percent more than Medicare. But as the Cato Institute’s Michael Tanner noted at Cato@Liberty, “When Medicare began, proponents promised it would reimburse at the same rate as insurance. That promise didn’t last long.” In fact, in his letter to Kennedy and Baucus, Obama explicitly endorsed the idea of setting mandatory physician and hospital reimbursement rates through the Medicare Payment Advisory Commission. In other words, the payments would no longer be merely advisory.
Government doesn’t exist to turn a profit, nor does it face competition. That’s why, in part, government operates so inefficiently. We put up with that in certain areas, like the military, because we don’t want private groups arming themselves with tanks, bombers, and armies and navies. In most other areas, we prefer the private sector, as competition usually gets us the best products and services at the best prices.
Government exists to service its interests, at least in its present form. Mostly, it serves to further itself. Any government bureaucracy that sees danger in competition will work to eliminate it. The dynamic in health-care plans would not be government making private insurers “more honest”, but in squeezing them out of the marketplace to create a monopoly. Since government doesn’t have to show a profit to exist, it will simply low-ball the other insurers on price until they all drop out of the health-care field. In an ironic way, it’s similar to how Standard Oil built its monopoly, which the government had to bust in order to get real choice and competition in the gasoline market.
Any public option offered by the government will be nothing more than a virus at the heart of the plan, through which the statists can push through a single-payer national health care system, and it won’t take that long to get it. Once the insurers understand the dynamic, they will run away from their health-care plans at lightning speed, leaving the field to Medicare, or whatever new name the Left dreams up for it.
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Oh yes, of course, PNHP. An entirely objective organization. No dog in this fight at all.
Tell me Ann, would PNHP have published those survey results if they’d been told to get bent?
DrSteve on June 10, 2009 at 2:38 PM
I sympathize about the medical stuff. Been there.
But why the worry over Chrysler? Good gravy, we’ve always seen companies come and go.
There’s a time and a place for everything.
AnninCA on June 10, 2009 at 2:38 PM
Which automatically means private insurance is dead.
drjohn on June 10, 2009 at 2:38 PM
No, thanks. Group health care is cheaper. What I pay through my employer is always going to be lower than any tax credit under the republicans or with a tax increase to pay for mine and everyone else’s healthcare. Also, my employer can negotiate the best plan for the bucks. They won’t ration my care or stick me with a plan where it a year to get an appt.
There may be problems with healthcare, but what I have now is 100x better than all the proposals.
Blake on June 10, 2009 at 2:39 PM
No, they can go to the emergency room and not get turned away. The so-called poor get their medical for free. Most of us have some sort of insurance, and there are special funds and programs to help low income folks (especially kids).
Many of the uninsured just don’t have enough money left over after paying for their cigarettes, beer, tatoos, tricked out rides, manicures, babymomma gifts, iPods, ATVs, vacations, NASCAR tickets, rap concerts, Prada bags, Under Armor gear, pit bulls, boob jobs, and other necessities to afford insurance.
If we could get some of these idjits to show some responsibility, maybe we could find a way to help the few uninsured that are left.
Laura in Maryland on June 10, 2009 at 2:39 PM
I just looked to make sure it communicated the physician standpoint.
That’s why I’m allergic to demands for links.
It’s nearly always met by how the source is wrong.
Nobody ever really cares about the information provided.
AnninCA on June 10, 2009 at 2:40 PM
And as was just mentioned on Limbaugh’s show, the UAW got a pile of money as part of the auto bailout so they could handle health care commitments. If the fed gov starts providing health service, the UAW can dump all relevant people onto that and keep the difference.
HotWeaver on June 10, 2009 at 2:41 PM
I lived in the UK for two years, and I constantly thought “You know…if the good ol’ US of A had a government run health program just like the NHS, we’d all be better off.”
Ok, not really. The NHS is a mockery of health care, and the fact that it exists in a “first world” country is astonishing. But that’s the direction we’re going…
Lemmy on June 10, 2009 at 2:42 PM
Busy, stressed at work…found out last night that my beloved cousin is having a brain MRI today – they suspect MS. It’s a bit tough right now.
How about you?
ladyingray on June 10, 2009 at 2:43 PM
There is that issue, but I’m personally convinced that can be better met with insurance. If you’re really that dysfunctional, with insurance, that you don’t go get your diabetes meds…?
Seriously, this could help with that issue. We could actually start to move on the real issue with many of these people.
And people, that’s addiction.
We could actually start to say…….”Rehab or else.”
AnninCA on June 10, 2009 at 2:43 PM
Jaysus on a pony, personalize much?
Oh, I care, but I used to be in the PR business and I know how this works. Would you trust a survey of 514 physicians with entirely opposite results, from the Ayn Rand Institute for Free Market Medicine?
DrSteve on June 10, 2009 at 2:43 PM
So the reality is the best thing is to do like taxes, tax as year goes on so that people aren’t faced with a horrendous bill when the end of year comes around. Force everyone to account for health insurance and lets move on to something else.
(Plus, I don’t buy this Prada bag line.)
mycowardice on June 10, 2009 at 2:43 PM
You are so clueless it boggles the mind.
Ever hear of Doctor Jay Patel?
He was a Kaiser surgeon for something like 10 years.
His nickname is “Doctor Death”.
MB4 on June 10, 2009 at 2:44 PM
Through my work and travels I’ve had the opportunity to speak with SO many young, barely above minimum wage workers in the health care industry. (Esp. in CA!) I’d say 90% of them were absolutely enamored with Obama; They loved the idea of a cool black President- never mind they had NO idea what he stood for, or where he might take America, he was just SO cool! I’ve no doubt that it still hasn’t occurred to them that their jobs are history if this idiot manages to push through Obamacare. This includes the hundreds of thousands of insurance workers as well. When you extrapolate the consequences of Gov’t healthcare, you ought to be scared out of your mind. Unemployment will sky rocket.
All this just illustrates the level of I.Q. that got Obama elected. Zero ability to think past the coolness factor.
anniekc on June 10, 2009 at 2:44 PM
No it just increases taxes, rations healthcare, and creates delays in treatment.
Blake on June 10, 2009 at 2:44 PM
And frankly you drive us nuts.
So show us some proof where we drive doctors nuts.
Knucklehead on June 10, 2009 at 2:45 PM
AnninCA on June 10, 2009 at 2:38 PM
There is no justice because the bastardization of the bankruptcy laws that left bonded shareholders holding the bag while Fiat (which by the way is being investigated – ha post yesterday) get free assets.
catlady on June 10, 2009 at 2:46 PM
Sorry, your use of the public paints with too broad a brush.
More to the point, those who voted for Obama consisted of several groups: blacks, simply because he was black; liberals, simply because he’s liberal; and independents, simply because they thought he was a hip, black dude.
Too many Obama voters had no idea what the guy stood for, and you’ll never convince me otherwise.
BuckeyeSam on June 10, 2009 at 2:46 PM
Boy, are you in for a rude awakening.
How in the name of Marcus Welby can you possibly believe that an institution that can’t balance the books for Medicare can all of a sudden make it feasible for the entire population?
As for the rest of your post,… huh? The solution to over-medicating is “free” health care for everybody from cradle to grave? That’s rich.
Think.
hillbillyjim on June 10, 2009 at 2:47 PM
I recently had hip replacement surgery – and the tender age of 45 – to correct a congenital problem. I lived with pain for nearly 20 years before I finally decided to have it looked at and fixed.
3 months after I made my first appointment (which I got in 3 weeks) with the surgeon, I had the surgery. We moved fast because my hip was disintegrating from underneath me. We moved fast because our current healthcare system allowed it to happen.
In Obama’s plan (like in the U.K.), I’d have to wait 2-3 years to get the surgery, after waiting 6 months for that first appointment and probably another 3-6 months to see multiple consultants who just confirm what we already know.
I could hardly walk when I first saw the surgeon – if I had to wait another 2-3 years I’d be in a wheelchair with arthritis that would have advanced thru my hip joint and into my pelvis and femur. Leaving me with the likelihood that a hip replacement would not have solved my problem, meaning I’d still be limping around, probably using a cane or crutches – for the rest of my life.
I’m very glad I’m done with this already.
KrisinNE on June 10, 2009 at 2:49 PM
ladyingray on June 10, 2009 at 2:43 PM
Sorry to hear about your cousin, will keep you in my prayers. My cousin has had MS for years (like fifteen) and still has a pretty good quality of life. So, hope that will encourage you all is not lost yet!
Right now consumed with waiting for my sister to die – if you guys don’t see much activity you know why.
catlady on June 10, 2009 at 2:49 PM
So show us some proof where we drive doctors nuts.
Knucklehead on June 10, 2009 at 2:45 PM
Sorry dude, but my husband is a dr, you DO drive him nuts!! But then I drive him nuts too.
catlady on June 10, 2009 at 2:51 PM
The public were lied to by Obama on health care. He said, literally scores of times, to millions of people, that under his health care plan “if you like your coverage you can keep it.” He said this knowing that a play-or-pay system leaves cost comparisons and plan decisions in the hands of employers (for 160 million of us, anyway) and that Lewin Group and other analysts had shown that over 50 million people with private insurance would be dropped on to the public option by their employers whether they liked their private coverage or not.
You were duped. Again.
DrSteve on June 10, 2009 at 2:52 PM
From The Oregonian of Sunday, Nov. 6, 2005 — Patel’s disturbing record at Kaiser stayed hidden for years (First of two parts)
By Susan Goldsmith and Don Colburn
In 1995, fellow Kaiser doctors voted him [Jay Patel] a “Distinguished Physician of the Year.”
“I can recommend Dr. Patel without any reservations whatsoever,” wrote Dr. Edward Ariniello, Kaiser’s former chief of surgery who hired Patel.
“It’s upsetting that he got away with this kind of practice for so many years,” said Paula Tucker, whose husband died after pancreatic surgery by Patel. “It wasn’t a choice my husband had.” Vickie Boyle had her colon removed by Patel in 1995 and later ended up rehospitalized for infection and a perforated bowel. When she questioned Patel about what happened, he asked if she’d been “eating toothpicks.”
Boyle said she approached another Kaiser doctor, who simply shrugged. “I was told he was the best,” she said.
*
From The Oregonian of Tuesday, Nov. 22, 2006 — Australia ready to charge Patel
By Don Colburn and Susan Goldsmith
A court issued warrants today in Australia for the arrest of former Portland surgeon Dr. Jayant M. Patel on on three charges of manslaughter and five charges of causing grievous bodily harm to patients at a rural Queensland hospital.
A government inquiry found that Patel may have contributed directly to 13 deaths because of an “unacceptable level of care” at Queensland state’s Bundaberg Base Hospital while the surgeon was director of surgery there in 2003-2005.
Chief public prosecutor Leanne Clare confirmed that warrants were issued today in the Brisbane Magistrates Court for Jayant Patel, — the first step toward extraditing Patel from Oregon to Australia to be tried on the charges.
The decision to seek charges marks a new phase in a 20-month inquiry triggered by an intensive care nurse who took complaints about Patel’s work to a member of the Australian Parliament in 2004. The nurse, Toni Hoffman, testified at length before a state commission charged with investigating Patel and the Queensland health system.
The commission’s hearings generated global headlines — Australian tabloids called Patel “Doctor Death” — and a 538-page report concluding that Patel’s negligence led to the deaths of 13 patients.
MB4 on June 10, 2009 at 2:54 PM
Your post doesn’t make sense (typo maybe?). We shouldn’t have to be dumped into the National Health DMV because of people who don’t feel like spending their fun money on insurance.
As for the Prada bag line, you need to get out more. I’ve been in line at too many grocery stores where welfare moms pull out the old independence card from a designer bag with salon-manicured hands. I’ve worked in poor neighborhoods where any individual wears more gold than my whole family owns. I’ve known white-trash families on the dole with fancy game systems, ATVs, minibikes, and big-screen TVs.
Why should my kids be “punished with” socialized medicine.
Laura in Maryland on June 10, 2009 at 2:55 PM
LOL!!! BTW, I’m a dudess and do you have proof that I drive your hubby nuts? j/k
Sorry to hear about your sister, I’ll light a candle for her.
Knucklehead on June 10, 2009 at 2:56 PM
Don’t bother…she’s already been proven as a liar who never supports her supposed “facts” – mainly because her comments are lies…
ladyingray on June 10, 2009 at 2:56 PM
Oh boy. The filthiest, most dishonest, disorganized, medical institution on the planet.
anniekc on June 10, 2009 at 2:59 PM
My take on people who hate the idea of a public plan is that you THINK this will reduce your own right to benefits.
I have never quite figured out why you think that.
AnninCA on June 10, 2009 at 2:59 PM
It does give me hope but I’m still concerned.
I’m sorry to hear about your sister. Its very draining to do what you’re doing…I know, I did that with my mother.
ladyingray on June 10, 2009 at 3:00 PM
So you want Big Brother telling everyone how to live their lives? Why didn’t you just come out and say so?
Very telling.
hillbillyjim on June 10, 2009 at 3:01 PM
Offering a public plan is a great solution, people.
GOP should figure out a way to get behind this.
If not, you’re going to lose the support of small business.
That’s a prediction, of course.
But small business is being killed by this issue.
Either get behind it or get left behind.
AnninCA on June 10, 2009 at 3:01 PM
There should be a mandate to have health insurance. So just like people’s pay check are taxed every week, whatever is needed to fund this basic plan should be accounted for along the way. This way people won’t be able to buy big screen tvs before paying for health insurance. That would avoid the problem you are describing.
No kids should be punished with socialized medecine. In reality, EVERY kid SHOULD have health insurance. Republicans could have done when they were in power, but I guess they had bigger fish to fry.
mycowardice on June 10, 2009 at 3:01 PM
Knucklehead on June 10, 2009 at 2:56 PM
Oops, my bad!! (Bad kitty, bad kitty)
No I have no proof about that but neither does Obama about any of his half assed schemes, and everyone believes HIM!
Thanks for the kind thoughts, appreciate!
catlady on June 10, 2009 at 3:02 PM
+1
mycowardice on June 10, 2009 at 3:02 PM
I’m probably wrong here, but isn’t our available medical insurance already limited/controlled by federal and state governments? I seem to recall that not all insurance companies can offer plans, or even similar plans, in all states.
If true, that’s not a competitive market, at all…
karl9000 on June 10, 2009 at 3:02 PM
Obama can save money. He can use Nurses aids that work for less than nurses. ACORN can become a PA and wear a coat.
He can dictate abrtions will be priced at 58.88. Nothing docs can do but leave. His model will not work for him unless it is a monopoly. After he bankrupts a few drug companies for reimbursement violations, it will come apart.
I am sure if phone man can run GM. Car execs can provide medical care. Surely women in stirrups are ok with their doc wearing his Chrysler mechanic uniform.
seven on June 10, 2009 at 3:03 PM
I’m figuring that Walter Reed will be the type of program offered by a public plan. You know, horrible conditions in the flagship hospital right under the collective nose of DC.
Laura in Maryland on June 10, 2009 at 3:03 PM
AnninCA on June 10, 2009 at 3:03 PM
I notice you conveniently ignored my plan.
What’s wrong with government offering tax credits for private insurance?
Skywise on June 10, 2009 at 3:03 PM
<blockquoteI’m figuring that Walter Reed will be the type of program offered by a public plan. You know, horrible conditions in the flagship hospital right under the collective nose of DC.
That’s the worst case scenario, for sure.
Although I was charmed by a recent PBS show on the intake care.
It was very cool.
But overall, I agree with you.
It’s way too iffy.
>
AnninCA on June 10, 2009 at 3:05 PM
AnninCA may be right about the American public wanting nationalized health care. However, the main reason that they want it is because of all of the minsinformation being spread by media and other sources. Bernie Sanders’ diatribe on the “Puffington Host” is a prime example. He repeats the lie that we’re truly 37th in health care. Sure, we’re 37th when you don’t level the playing field and allow other countries to make up rules on how they report critical statistics (infant mortality rates being one). It’s a lie that is repeated in headlines and by every non-thinking lefty (I know, that’s redundant).
The 46 million uninsured number is another lie that’s propogated. Perhaps, there are 46 million uninsured in this country. However, it’s not a static number and it’s overinflated by those folks who continue to make the same dumb choices every day to keep themselves in a rut and the “invunerable” young adults who believe that they’ll never get sick or injured. Many of those in these two categories could afford a high deductible insurance policy, but I guess tatoos and DirectTV are higher priorities.
RedinPDRM on June 10, 2009 at 3:06 PM
No… I KNOW this will reduce my benefits.
I have a RIGHT to my benefits right now without government intervention.
Those who sacrifice Medical Liberty for the sake of Medical Security deserve neither.
Skywise on June 10, 2009 at 3:06 PM
My point on a political level?
Is the GOP pro-business?
This is the biggest hurdle for any small business.
A public plan could solve that.
AnninCA on June 10, 2009 at 3:06 PM
Sure you love it. Because you’ve probably never been told by your doctor that you have a disease that could be cured by treatment that you can’t receive because unfortunately for you, your insurance company still considers the treatment “experimental”.
Our healthcare issues such as soaring prices and access could be vastly reduced by implementing two changes:
1. Eliminate Medicare/Medicaid
2. Curbing medical malpractice lawsuits
I think you would see health care costs for everyone reduce dramatically.
Puddleglum on June 10, 2009 at 3:07 PM
BTW, I’m a USN hospital baby, and they botched health care back when there was just ONE war and only 50 states.
Laura in Maryland on June 10, 2009 at 3:07 PM
All current plans being proposed do not interfere with private plans and/or great employee plans.
Rest assured. Nobody is going to take away your private plan.
Now, I will say, my mom’ private plan, which was 100% pay in Arkansas, which transferred to
CA?
That made every private doctor she saw look at her like a cow on the hoof.
They ran one very expensive test 3 times.
It didn’t matter that I said, “She just had that test run 3 weeks ago.”
They ordered it anyway.
That’s the greed going on in medical circles.
It’s no different than what is going on in Wall St.
It needs to stop.
AnninCA on June 10, 2009 at 3:11 PM
That’s the whole idea.
MarkTheGreat on June 10, 2009 at 3:12 PM
Oh, just thought of something! Isn’t Kaiser the hospital that enabled the “Octo-mom” to conceive her brood? You happy with that, Ann?
Puddleglum on June 10, 2009 at 3:13 PM
DrSTEVE: Obviously you’re not a “real” DR or you are an employee because you are truly ignorant of the facts.
Redglen on June 10, 2009 at 3:15 PM
People who support government healthcare here really need to READ the bill.
Then, ask yourself why do people in countries with socialized healthcare come to the USA to get surgery?! BECAUSE THEY HAVE LONG WAITING LISTS. If politicians are in control of your healthcare, they will outlaw and tax every vice under the sun, and determine who gets care and who doesn’t. Do you really want to pay for the healthcare of someone who smokes a pack a day, eats McDonald’s everyday, and does not exercise? Do you want to let someone in Washington to determine the age which you cannot receive healthcare anymore because of the cost? I’m sure the answer is “no” to both.
Government programs have never fixed healthcare or economy anywhere in the world throughout history… Why would anyone think they would work now?
Most people can afford private health insurance… someone in the 20’s can get healthcare for as little as $80 per month. Someone in their 50’s can have it for less than $250 per month. As long as health insurers are paid, they cannot drop you.
ironmonk on June 10, 2009 at 3:15 PM
It’s not greed, Ann. It’s CYA to attempt to prevent a future lawsuit.
Puddleglum on June 10, 2009 at 3:15 PM
Did you even Read the article at the top of this thread?
Why do you think some magical government program will make that sort of abuse stop?
Skywise on June 10, 2009 at 3:16 PM
It would depend on the experiment. My sister-in-law, bless her, had MS. She was furious because the AMA didn’t validate several experiments.
Her hometown sent her to Germany for the treatment.
She was into bee therapy, even.
It was a very, very sad story, and she passed away, from MS.
Her ideas about what would help were nothing more than crazy ideas.
It was very hard to watch.
AnninCA on June 10, 2009 at 3:16 PM
AnninCA, Kaiser has been trying to get a hold of you. They say that one of their best surgeons, Doctor Jay Patel, is back and is ready for you to come in for your surgery. Don’t be late.
MB4 on June 10, 2009 at 3:17 PM
Then you will be wrong…
I cover my kids through the X wifes plan, with Kaiser.
I am on Champus Prime, a government run plan for Retired Military folks.
My kids plan is WAYYYYYYY better than my plan. They get seen faster, more tests, less paperwork, and WAYYY less waiting for services. There are also MANY more choices of Doctors in Kaiser, than I have with Champus Prime…. most Doctors will not take my plan because it pays at the MEDICARE rate… they can’t afford it.
I go to the VA hospital for tests… they go to the very good brand new LOCAL hospital…
Oh, and Kaiser makes much more money from my kids plan, than my doctor does from my government run plan.
You have NO idea of the difference between private Health Plans, and those run by the Government.
Romeo13 on June 10, 2009 at 3:17 PM
Picture this:
50 states (or more, based on the One)
Several insurance companies per state
Hundreds if not thousands of people employed by these insurance companies
Obamacare gets pushed through
Insurance companies go “bye-bye”
People employed by insurance companies unemployed.
Yeah, AWESOME!!!
Plus, I do investigations for health care fraud and guess what? I’d lose my job too and fraud would go up exponentially if there’s no investigations. And fraud investigations will go by the wayside considering the lumbering bohemoth that Medicare/Medicaid are now.
Whatevs. People want the crappy healthcare I got while I lived in Canada. Go ahead. Just wait until you see me dancing and singing the “I told you so” dance and song. I’ll be in the unemployment line to the left.
mjk on June 10, 2009 at 3:19 PM
And there’s the freudian truth…
You want to force people into “correct” health procedures.
Skywise on June 10, 2009 at 3:19 PM
Hatch co-authored SCHIP. If SCHIP had merely been up for reauthorization instead of a ridiculous expansion (”This debate is set up. It’s set up about 10 million children or not.” — Rahm Emanuel) there would have been no problem at all.
Ann, the GOP is going to support small businesses, not pander to them. Would you have them treat small businesses like the Democrats treat all their pressure groups?
DrSteve on June 10, 2009 at 3:19 PM
Nah, I really wanted to believe that. But it was pure greed.
They get a cut of those tests.
That’s all it was.
It was pure greed.
Mom and I laughed about this, btw. She knew she was a “cow on the hoof” because of her extraordinary insurance.
They were ready to do surgery on her right up to the day of her death.
I’m sorry, guys.
But doctors are no longer reliable.
They are greedy buggers.
Just like Wall St.
AnninCA on June 10, 2009 at 3:19 PM
And they have gotten in trouble repeatedly for preventing people from making appointments to see doctors in order to save money. You might not think it’s so great if it takes you 4 months of repeated calling to make an appt. to see a doctor and when you go to your appt. you notice the waiting room almost empty. It’s going to be much worse under your Obamacrap care plan but you’re too stupid to know it.
Blake on June 10, 2009 at 3:19 PM
Not me. I figure bees don’t cost much.
It was sad, not expensive.
AnninCA on June 10, 2009 at 3:20 PM
How many times will this myth have to be killed before even conservatives stop trotting it out.
Standard oil never had a monopoly. It never got even close.
It was able to undercut it’s competitors because for awhile, it had better technology. But as it’s competitors closed the technology gap, Standard Oil started losing market share.
That’s right. Long before govt got around to breaking up Standard Oil, it’s competitors had already solved the problem.
The break up of Standard Oil was not done for market reasons, it was done at the behest of powerfull politicians who were being paid by oil refiners who found it cheaper to buy a politician, than to invest in better equipment.
MarkTheGreat on June 10, 2009 at 3:20 PM
And yet… you still trust them to cut you open?
Skywise on June 10, 2009 at 3:22 PM
\
That’s why I said, “I’m a Kaiser baby.” I’ve never had your experience.
I make an appointment, and it’s actually on-time. I have an emergency, I’m in like a flash.
Me? I can’t maneuver around private doctors. They drive me nuts.
Kaiser works for me. Private? No.
AnninCA on June 10, 2009 at 3:23 PM
Depends where you live. Self employed it costs me around $600 a month. If I take early retirement from an old pension, it will cost me $40 a month for the same plan and I get dental, too. So, how does gov. healthcare benefit me?
Blake on June 10, 2009 at 3:24 PM
I do. They are good at their jobs. Just lousy at business.
AnninCA on June 10, 2009 at 3:24 PM
All you people talking about how nice your plans are like HMO’s and Champus, did ya ever see how much they pay your doctor? You know the waiting for surgery in socialized medicine country is not because the govt. limits it as much as it is that very few doctors will work for that pay. The ones that DO, are STUPID enough to do it. Think about that.
Redglen on June 10, 2009 at 3:24 PM
You’re missing my point. The point is that in some diseases, bone marrow transplants are not experimental! It is a procedure with a very high success rate in certain types of cancer! This is just an exercise in rationing care on the part of the insurance company to save on costs. Other insurance providers would and do cover the treatment. Your particular carrier does not.
You are happy with your plan and would be happy with an equivalent government mandated plan, up until the time you needed a treatment you couldn’t receive. The government gets to decide the cost benefit of saving your life or letting you die. Do you really want that?
Puddleglum on June 10, 2009 at 3:24 PM
AnninCA on June 10, 2009 at 3:06 PM
—–
Let’s suppose I have a hatbox full of money.
Let’s suppose I break my foot.
Can I, under your plan, phone up a doctor friend who I play golf with, give him some of my money, and have him fix my foot?
If not, then I want no part of your plan.
Mew
acat on June 10, 2009 at 3:24 PM
Talking points mania.
hillbillyjim on June 10, 2009 at 3:25 PM
Better yet, you, Obama, and this healthcare bamboozle get lost.
Blake on June 10, 2009 at 3:26 PM
So they’re too crooked or stupid to handle money, but gosh darnit they can cut out your appendix anytime because Kaiser’s watching you?
You realize the US Government has stolen more of your money than all of your Doctors COMBINED.. right?
Skywise on June 10, 2009 at 3:28 PM
The Irony of todays discussion is that you all are complaining about “socialist” agendas in healthcare and at the same time complaining about income and assumed greed of doctors.This is why socialism happens.It sounds good when it effects everybody else but you.
Redglen on June 10, 2009 at 3:28 PM
By 300 AD the greater part of the Roman Army was comprised of mercenaries and tribal barbarians. Rome no longer exercised coherent operational control; either strategic or tactical, of the geographically distant and undisciplined hoards. Déjà vu, Blackwater, et al…?
Rather begs the question; concerning the superiority and efficiency of governmental control, even if they do on occasion purchase 600 dollar toilet seat.
Geezer on June 10, 2009 at 3:28 PM
You won’t be unemployed, silly. You’ll be paid $112,000 per year by the US Governement Health System to stamp “Rejected” on all appointment requests from your collective.
Laura in Maryland on June 10, 2009 at 3:29 PM
You sure can tell when they’re being fed their talking points, can’t ya?
They all post alike with that double space, one-liner stuff. Must be an Axelrod requirement.
Knucklehead on June 10, 2009 at 3:29 PM
Are you Jay Patel? His wife?
MB4 on June 10, 2009 at 3:29 PM
Redglen on June 10, 2009 at 3:28 PM
—
Hey Red.
Doctors in private practices *are* small businesses.
Mew
acat on June 10, 2009 at 3:31 PM
I can tell you’re a liberal…must be because you’ve never been audited by the IRS. Just wait until you show up for an appointment that you’ve waited 4 months for just to be told:
1. that you don’t exist.
2. you’ve already had that appointment
Laura in Maryland on June 10, 2009 at 3:31 PM
Just wait until you see me dancing and singing the “I told you so” dance and song. I’ll be in the unemployment line to the left.
mjk on June 10, 2009 at 3:19 PM
—–
Just don’t trip and crack an ankle doing that dance…
You’ll be waiting a long, long time to be seen by a doctor.
Mew
acat on June 10, 2009 at 3:32 PM
Not only was it my experience, Kaiser of Northern Calif was sued for it. So, it was obviously a whole lot of people’s experience. Kaiser was heavily fined for it by the state.
My experience was at Kaiser Southern California who were obviously was pulling the same crap.
This is what government healthcare is going to be like. There are going to be a lot more people competing for appointments and they are going to ration care by limiting your access to doctors — whether you go to Kaiser or somewhere else. It’s not going to be the same as what you are getting now. Of course, I know this will fall on deaf ears because you swallowed the kool-aid and someone at Kaiser dropped you on your head when you were born.
Blake on June 10, 2009 at 3:33 PM
Doctors Mengele, Kevorkian and Patel all endorse ObamaCare. They say that if you like Kaiser you will just love ObamaCare. What more does anyone need?
MB4 on June 10, 2009 at 3:33 PM
I go with the “Independence Day” movie theory on that. It’s not a $600 toilet seat. It’s a $5 toilet seat with $595 going to some other secret item not on the books…
Skywise on June 10, 2009 at 3:33 PM
It won’t. It’ll make it worse. Insurance company fraud departments are actually the ones that Medicare/Medicaid depend on to do the initial reviews. Because insurance companies keep a better track of the cash. for some reason.
:)
mjk on June 10, 2009 at 3:33 PM
Demonstrably wrong (see Figure 6). If your employer sees the “public option” priced below your current private plan (for example, because the public option will be subsidized), say bye-bye to your private plan. I would refer you to Lewin Group’s analysis of Senator Edwards’ plan, which is nearly identical to what Obama pushed during the campaign.
DrSteve on June 10, 2009 at 3:34 PM
Versus, the insurance company deciding if I die or not?
Tell me who decides right now if I have private insurer.
mycowardice on June 10, 2009 at 3:34 PM
Awesome. that’s twice as much as I’m getting paid right now (or so). Bring it on, Obamacare!
mjk on June 10, 2009 at 3:35 PM
FIFY, Ed.
bluelightbrigade on June 10, 2009 at 3:35 PM
SCHIP did not mandate health insurance for every single kid in America.
mycowardice on June 10, 2009 at 3:35 PM
That would be you, comrade. Decisions have consequences, and YOU get to decide if you want to get insurance, go bankrupt, get on the dole, or hold a charity function for your care. The point is, NO ONE GETS TURNED AWAY NOW at the emergency room. (Sorry for jumping in Puddle).
Laura in Maryland on June 10, 2009 at 3:39 PM
I’ve said it before, but it bears repeating on this thread: I have many patients who go to the VA to get their medication for “free” (we pay for it in tax dollars, but I never begrudge it because of the tremendous service the military does for us on a daily basis) but they come to my office to get good health care (VA doctors have as much a chance of being allowed to be sued as a tenured teacher has of getting fired) and to actually get an appointment in a matter of weeks instead of months and months.
The government already runs the VA (into the ground) but hey, I’m sure they’ll do better when they control ALL healthcare…right?
DrAllecon on June 10, 2009 at 3:39 PM
You do. As it stands now, you get to decide from whom you will purchase your insurance. Don’t like the company insurance? Buy it somewhere else. Right now, you do have a choice.
Ultimately, there will be no choice in a government-run plan.
Puddleglum on June 10, 2009 at 3:39 PM
No problem, Laura. The more people fighting against the insanity, the better!
Puddleglum on June 10, 2009 at 3:41 PM
Not true. Right now you are likely stuck with your insurer, and don’t really have much of a choice. Your best choices are 1- to appeal (i.e. rely on the government rules to get your insurance to bend) or 2- pay for your treatment yourself.
These two options could equaly be available under Obama’s plan.
mycowardice on June 10, 2009 at 3:42 PM
Your earlier comment, to which I was responding:
I never said SCHIP mandated health insurance for every kid in America. It didn’t need to, because a lot of kids already have insurance. In fact, a lot of kids who would have been eligible under expanded SCHIP already had insurance. You want to have the government cover them anyway?
DrSteve on June 10, 2009 at 3:42 PM
The VA model is not the model being proposed.
mycowardice on June 10, 2009 at 3:43 PM
As if getting insurance benefit reimbursements from contracted free enterprise Insurance Carriers isn’t hard enough already. So when the Government Insurance (like Social Security) fails to provide as original legislation contracted with tax payers, who will take your complaint to court?
Medicare, Medicaid and Veterans Health Care provide ample example of what Socialized Health Care is in America; and like every Social program, it only makes things get monumentally worse (LBJ Great Society Welfare destroyed Black families).
Besides the horrible quality of health care citizens get from Socialized programs, the point remains that Eugenics is part and parcel with Socialized Health Care, no dodging the implications.
How can anyone support the Federal Government’s “right” to take everyone’s DNA and full medical history without the citizen’s permission, that the Feds require specific treatments (you may not need and may adamantly oppose, such as the required vaccination for genital warts regardless of side effects and deadly consequences), or that the Feds deny or postpone until ‘too late’ treatments based upon your “worth”, and the Feds denying specific medication prescribed because it is not on the ‘approved list’ of the cheapest to access.
The fact remains, THIS Federal Government (namely the Obama Administration, the Democrat Congress and the Supreme Court via abstention) has already established precedent to ignore contract law with American citizens. Our separate Branches of Government no longer function according to our Constitution, the only document that gives those in government any legitimacy.
maverick muse on June 10, 2009 at 3:44 PM
So there are the kids covered by SCHIP, the kids covered by other insurances and the kids having no coverage.
I am saying there should be no kids in that last category. Any plan should ensure there are no kids in that last category.
mycowardice on June 10, 2009 at 3:45 PM
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