NYT: DOJ lawyers found CIA interrogation methods legal
posted at 8:49 pm on June 8, 2009 by Allahpundit
This one trickled out over the weekend but shouldn’t go unnoticed. Turns out defining “torture” is hard even for the most brilliant of lawyers. If only we could appoint Andrew Sullivan interrogation czar and let him decide according to his exquisite conscience. Thumbs up or thumbs down, however he’s feeling on that particular day.
Previously undisclosed Justice Department e-mail messages, interviews and newly declassified documents show that some of the lawyers, including James B. Comey, the deputy attorney general who argued repeatedly that the United States would regret using harsh methods, went along with a 2005 legal opinion asserting that the techniques used by the Central Intelligence Agency were lawful.
That opinion, giving the green light for the C.I.A. to use all 13 methods in interrogating terrorism suspects, including waterboarding and up to 180 hours of sleep deprivation, “was ready to go out and I concurred,” Mr. Comey wrote to a colleague in an April 27, 2005, e-mail message obtained by The New York Times…
None of the Justice Department lawyers who reviewed the interrogation question argued that the methods were clearly illegal…
[DOJ lawyer Jack] Goldsmith put a temporary halt to waterboarding. But he left intact a secret companion memorandum from 2002 that actually authorized the harsh methods, leaving the C.I.A. free to use all its methods except waterboarding, including wall-slamming, face-slapping, stress positions and more.
Mr. Levin, now in private practice, won public praise with a 2004 memorandum that opened by declaring “torture is abhorrent.” But he also wrote a letter to the C.I.A that specifically approved waterboarding in August 2004, and he drafted much of Mr. Bradbury’s lengthy May 2005 opinion authorizing the 13 methods…
“There’s no doubt whatsoever that a great deal of coercive treatment that most people would call torture is not prohibited by the federal antitorture statute,” said Benjamin Wittes, a Brookings Institution scholar who has studied interrogation policy.
Exit question: How come the Democrats don’t vastly expand the antitorture statute, then? And yes, that’s rhetorical.
Blowback
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Dog bites man…………
rain is wet; snow is cold
so many revelations today
Janos Hunyadi on June 8, 2009 at 8:51 PM
I blame Bush.
the_nile on June 8, 2009 at 8:52 PM
Bear poops in woods..
Pope is found to be Catholic…
Markvike on June 8, 2009 at 8:53 PM
Impeach Booosh Now!
ronsfi on June 8, 2009 at 8:54 PM
Someone on the left is having a bad day today…….
ctmom on June 8, 2009 at 8:54 PM
I’m shocked, shocked, absolutely shocked by these old revelations that are recently growing new roots. /Sarcasm
byteshredder on June 8, 2009 at 8:55 PM
blow there head off with sniper rifles, blow them up with predator strikes, have enough nuclear bombs to eradicate the world, but waterboarding is what the left equates with a war crimes.
rob verdi on June 8, 2009 at 8:56 PM
Has anyone broken the news to Meme P yet?
Supreme delicious moment!
freeus on June 8, 2009 at 8:59 PM
Man alive, this has been one he1l of a Monday.
Now if Mary Ham or Amanda Carpenter would stop by to give me a massage, the day would truly be momentous.
Bishop on June 8, 2009 at 9:01 PM
Jack Goldsmith was hailed as a hero by the Left when he quit Bush’s team.
However, they started to abandon him when he dared to state that Chimpy was actually under-reporting the terrorism threat to the American people-not employing the “politics of fear”, as so many of Bush’s shrill (and brain-dead) critics claimed at the time.
This revelation will further disappoint Goldsmith’s Leftist droolers.
Del Dolemonte on June 8, 2009 at 9:03 PM
NY Times Editor “When you conservatives start trusting our lies that forces us to make up new lies”
William Amos on June 8, 2009 at 9:06 PM
Hey, man….I said this elsewhere on HA:
Please, please, PLEASE, do not make me sorry.
:D
ladyingray on June 8, 2009 at 9:07 PM
They are clearly afraid of Cheney using teh Force on them /sarc
Upstater85 on June 8, 2009 at 9:08 PM
BTW thought Id never say this but thank you Lindsey Graham
William Amos on June 8, 2009 at 9:09 PM
I’d rather root for Lieberman.
Upstater85 on June 8, 2009 at 9:10 PM
Gov. Palin smoldering on Hannity! WOW!
SouthernGent on June 8, 2009 at 9:10 PM
OMG! Strangelet is going to be soooo disappointed with this post, Allah.
You, you , you … torture enabler, you!
hillbillyjim on June 8, 2009 at 9:10 PM
Barry should apologize for apologizing.
Star20 on June 8, 2009 at 9:13 PM
Is this another lie put forth by the CIA to trick La Pelosi?
SouthernGent on June 8, 2009 at 9:13 PM
Eh… her and getalife are too busy picking up the welfare checks to read this one…
Upstater85 on June 8, 2009 at 9:13 PM
Because they were too busy leaking our intelligent sectrets that President Bush was using to try to catch those who think it’s God’s will to kill us,…………
……………all for POLITICAL reasons, regardless of the continuing harm it is doing to the United States of Amercia, regardless of who is in the White House?
Or Political Whores in short…………..
……….and Enhanced Interrogtion Techniques are not, and were never “torture”,
………………….. This is.
Seven Percent Solution on June 8, 2009 at 9:14 PM
Hanitty interveiw with Sarah Palin
William Amos on June 8, 2009 at 9:14 PM
Maybe this will be the think that causes our trolls perform a post-natal abortion on themselves.
-Dave
Dave R. on June 8, 2009 at 9:18 PM
I wouldn’t worry about it ladyingray, Bishop rocks…
doriangrey on June 8, 2009 at 9:19 PM
I heard Nancy Pelosi is lending out her old coat hanger – since she clearly isn’t ready to go down…
Upstater85 on June 8, 2009 at 9:20 PM
Palomino.
WisCon on June 8, 2009 at 9:21 PM
Two words in that post should never be used in the same sentence. :-)
coldwarrior on June 8, 2009 at 9:27 PM
The Times must be up to something. Why would they use the Bush Justice Dep’t lawyers as cover for “torture.” Is the Obama admin. “torturing” people as we speak and looking for cover?
btw, the Justice Dep’t is now an oxymoron. Don’t forget how the Obama AG Holder just dropped the charges against the Black Panthers in the voter intimidation case. The Justice Dep’t is a political tool of the executive. They just launched a federal investigation into the murder of the abortionist, Tiller.
JiangxiDad on June 8, 2009 at 9:28 PM
Well, more than two actually…
Just brings up a totally bad bad image. :-)
coldwarrior on June 8, 2009 at 9:28 PM
I know someone named Arnold in California that needs to see that clip……
Seven Percent Solution on June 8, 2009 at 9:30 PM
to me, taking it in the rear is Torture, not so to Andrew Sullivan though. To abu Zubadah, a Catepillar was torture, not to others.
jp on June 8, 2009 at 9:38 PM
I love the smell of napalm in the morning…..It smells like…
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on June 8, 2009 at 9:59 PM
This has been a very bad day for the Obama administration.
Daggett on June 8, 2009 at 10:01 PM
satanlet head asplode
daesleeper on June 8, 2009 at 10:12 PM
Obama contracts : liberty expands
daesleeper on June 8, 2009 at 10:12 PM
Standby for a distraction. Clinton liked bombing aspirin factories.
fogw on June 8, 2009 at 10:17 PM
Amazing how many ‘lawyers’ change their ‘legal opinion’ based on how the wind is blowing. Kinda makes ya think that all laws are ‘realitive’.
GarandFan on June 8, 2009 at 10:34 PM
Anyone want to start a pool on what the distraction will be?
Hotair should run a poll on it.
Daggett on June 8, 2009 at 10:42 PM
Realitive or how much the idiot media decides to drive the message before the editors get tired of hearing from their advertisers.
The has really become a great day for a country in need of sanity trumping over the loonie-left-tards. If no one minds, I’ll just raise my glass to ya all….
Rovin on June 8, 2009 at 10:48 PM
This article’s intent is to provide cover for Obama because he’s not changing any of Bush’s disastrous security policies. Did they run any articles like this when Bush was in office?
True_King on June 8, 2009 at 10:53 PM
Breaking! Panic at the WH—Teleprompter parts needed for upcoming speech found on shutdown factory line in Toledo as the GAO refuse’s COD.
Rovin on June 8, 2009 at 11:00 PM
This is the Obama administration backing down and trying to look moderate for not releasing any more stuff or starting criminal proceedings. The NYT is the liberal bible, so now they all feel OK with things. All but the Cindy Sheehans of the world have been appeased.
PastorJon on June 8, 2009 at 11:53 PM
I think someone programmed TOTUS incorrectly.
BoomJunkie on June 9, 2009 at 12:08 AM
Hey! Let’s put the terrorists in those dunking cages to raise funds all across the country so our taxes will be less. But have deeper water with jellyfish in the tank. Goodnight.
Travis1 on June 9, 2009 at 12:18 AM
Sorry. I meant stinging nettles.
Travis1 on June 9, 2009 at 12:19 AM
Obama will now give Gitmo terrorists a choice of boogie-boards or snowboards to compensate for their waterboarding.
With Koranic verses inscribed on them.
John Kerry will petition for an upgrade to sailboards…
profitsbeard on June 9, 2009 at 12:51 AM
Damn,
Hollywood,move on,code pink,and NBC/MSNBC will be pissed.
All those “Arrest Bush/Cheney” T-shirts and stickers with no one to buy them.
Baxter Greene on June 9, 2009 at 12:54 AM
I guess I might as well forward the comment I got on my blog post on the subject:
I’ll let others point out where he may have a case, or whether he’s all wet.
karl_lembke on June 9, 2009 at 2:40 AM
Where is the proof that these lawyers were “pressured” into making these opinions.
This is the same bogus arguments that were made by the left regarding Iraq pre-war intel.
It was and still is claimed by liberals that the CIA was “pressured” into framing the evidence around the rational for war.
Unfortunately for the impeachment crowd,all investigations showed that Bush did not lie nor was there any pressure to manipulate intel (2004 Senate Intelligence report,Butler report,9/11 commission report,2008 Senate Intelligence report(chaired by a majority of democrats)).
Now that the lefts venture into there faux “Bush war crimes” agenda has blown up in their face with democrats being shown to support the same policies they accuse Bush of
being a war criminal for enacting,here comes the “They intimidated and forced” line on these legal opinions.
Anyone of these lawyers would be considered a hero by the press for coming forward and proving this allegation.
Just like the partisan CIA agent was that revealed the NSA
wiretapping program that he admitted he had no idea what it
actually did and whether it was legal or not,he just did not like or trust Bush.
None of these lawyers have stated that they were “forced” to write these opinions which would certainly absolve them of any blame and put it where liberals and their friends in the press want it,on Bush.
But please,keep pushing this War on Bush,it is working out great so far.
Cheney’s approval ratings are getting better everyday.
Pelosi has been caught lying to the Nation repeatedly and has yet to back up her accusations or clear herself in her support of enhanced interrogation in this administration of “Hope and Change”.
Republicans would like nothing more than to get “all” the documents and truth out concerning the democrats support for taking out Saddam and the support for the policies in the War on Terror that their friends in the media have done such a good job of blaming Bush for while selectively ignoring their liberal heroes on the Hill involvement.
liberals have had the power to impeach since 2006.
They own the House,Senate,and White House which gives them unabated power to go after Bush.
Yet Obama just wants all of this to go away.
Either your liberal heroes are just as guilty as Bush or these allegations are as credible as the “Bush stole the 2000/2004 elections” and “Bush did 9/11″.
Democrats have the power,
PUT UP OR SHUT UP!!!!
Baxter Greene on June 9, 2009 at 3:58 AM
Jihadist terrorism…an act of war…9-11 attack on American soil, captured combatants on a foreign battlefield…or a simple law enforcement matter?
If it is indictments and trials in a courtroom, right after the arraignment for the guys who knocked off the Kwiki-Mart and before the Anderson divorce, then, no, information obtained through coercion of any kind, can easily be stricken, and on a minor point, i.e., “Any court in the land would throw out evidence obtained through torture for the obvious reason that it only represents what the TORTURER wanted to hear,” the poster may have a case.
But,. obtaining essential elements of intelligent pursuant to a military campaign, or to obtain operational intelligence, then we are in a different baliwick entrely.
This is the fundamental problem with how this Administration seems to want to pursue the entirety of terrorism…law enforcement.
How does one square Obama’s insistence that certain Gitmo detainees will be allowed to enter guilty pleas? Under military law, the UCMJ and the rules surrounding the detainment of the Gitmo subjects, entering a guilty plea is not one of the options provided. Under military law, the premature entering of a guilty pleas is normally largely discourage, pursuant to the finding of facts.
Contrary to the stereotype, usually held by those who never had any dealings with Courts Martial convening authority, military law is actually geared far more to the defense of the charged than one finds in civilian courts. Appeals are automatic, and are reviewed at the highest federal levels for capital crimes than found in civilian courts.
Under which law can Obama bring any of the Gitmo detainees to a self-proclaimed guilty plea under our federal court system?
This is evidence of Obama wanting the Gitmo “problem” to go away, regardless of the rule of law, the Constitution, or even simple military law.
Should Obama be successful in getting Gitmo detainees to plead guilty en masse Obama will be guilty himself of far more than one would find for former President Bush, et al..
Once again, precedent is tossed aside by this Administration, and willful ignorance of the entire reason Guantanamo was chosen as a detention site is evident.
Johnson v. Eisentrager .
, vnr us susauiis ponm.licour store we
coldwarrior on June 9, 2009 at 4:02 AM
Damn, late hit submit too early…
Johnson v. Eisentrager notwithstanding, there are other reasons why providing “trials” or guilty pleas for the Gitmo detainees is a danger to Geneva, and other treaties and agreements on the treatment of actual prisoners of war, as defined by intetnational convention, ands why holding trials for combatants not entitled to Geneva protections opens up a Pandora’s Box that will quite easily be a danger to our own servicemembers abroad and our civilians as well, should any other nation decide to tweak Geneva for their own ends.
Yes, holding the captees/detainees until cessation of hostilities is well within legal limits, as is using coercion to obtain operational information pursuant to a military campaign.
Fail to make that separation between war fighting and law enforcement and one will soon find oneself wrapped up in a Gordian Knot of enormous proportions.
The Bush Administration had it right…the present Administration is foundering in a sea of self-imposed confusion over what should be a fairly straight forward matter.
“Of several acceptable explanations for a phenomenon, the simplest is preferable””…and usually most correct.
In trying to nuance all of this to fit a political mold, a preordained conclusion [Bush/Cheney lied, terrorism is a law enforcement matter, and war fighting and law enforcement are interchangible] simply shows the vapidity of how the Obama Administration is conducting the war on jihadist terrorism.
It thus is no surprise at all that the term “war on terrorism” has been stricken from the Obama lexicon to be substituted by some other nonsensical terminology…such as “man-made overseas disasters.” Once you tweak the definitions to fit the mold, everything else become immediately relative. Objectivity is lost. And the people can be more easily swayed by this Zen approach [anything is everything] to national security.
coldwarrior on June 9, 2009 at 4:14 AM
So basically the facts are not one DOJ Lawyer that looked at these EIT techniques deemed them to be torture and therefore illegal.
Some of them had ‘strong reservations’ and adopted the position that just because it was legal didn’t mean it was a good idea to use them, and the meme becomes the Bush administration ‘rushed’ the justification of the techniques out the door.
But lets remember this shall we: all this was CYA manevering in 2005 after the Bush Admin. got ample proof Pelosi and Co. were planning to pretend they didn’t have a clue waterboarding was going on and were about to politicize the EIT’s in an attempt to help themselves in the 2006 mid-terms.
manofaiki on June 9, 2009 at 5:12 AM
Tell the “Truth Commission” Dems to stick that in their pipes (next to the ready rock) and smoke it…
SuperCool on June 9, 2009 at 5:19 AM
It’s way past time to start apologizing to Bush/Cheney!
Frances on June 9, 2009 at 6:17 AM
Anyone who endorses the practice of partial birth abortion should STFU on waterboarding.
HondaV65 on June 9, 2009 at 7:45 AM
O’Reilly hammered Juan Williams on that moral issue last night. Williams’ answer: well partial birth abortion is legal, torture isn’t… whereas O’Reilly blew a gasket.
The question was concerning moral authority – of which Williams clearly played the duck and cover liberal game: although O’Reilly had a caveat “partial birth advocates are hiding behind RvW”
Williams and other liberals make up crap as they go along, and love to conclude “torture” is everthing used – being its such a “bad” word… oops – accordiong to Rasmussen – not to the majority of Americans.
They open Pandora’s box, hedging the lives of American troops and now are doing everything in their power to run for cover aqnd hope it all just goes away. Though I believe many posters are correct – Bambi is continuing many Bush policies and now need the “legal justification” to be spelled out.
On a good note – one of my most liberal friends said on FB last night “Obama’s Peace looks like Bush’s War”…
Odie1941 on June 9, 2009 at 8:59 AM
dems need to learn the painful is not illegal–even if Bush did it
commish8l on June 9, 2009 at 9:31 AM
Nah. Now she’ll have to say the Dept. of Justice ALSO lied to her, though.
hawksruleva on June 9, 2009 at 9:34 AM
It’s only evil if it’s not your guy doing it.
/postmodernism
bluelightbrigade on June 9, 2009 at 9:38 AM
Government lawyers says what the government is doing is ok. I am shocked.
LevStrauss on June 9, 2009 at 10:02 AM
Department of Treasury Officials say that Obama’s stimulus plan will create jobs.
LevStrauss on June 9, 2009 at 10:04 AM
This is an easy one…..look at UCMJ Subchapter 10 924 Article 124 which CLEARLY defines torture and would make waterboarding ILLEGAL if waterboarding WAS torture, which under the UCMJ is NOT torture.
By the way, the UCMJ is the ONLY jurisdiction under which captured terrorists at GITMO can be held and tried and to attempt to prosecute ANYONE at GITMO using the DOJ or the Federal Court System would be illegal. To try to prosecute ANYONE using the a system that has no jurisdiction would be UNCONSTITUTIONAL but don’t expect anyone in Washington D.C. to know this.
Expect ANYONE tried using the DOJ and the Federal Courts to eventually have those convictions overturned on appeal.
nelsonknows on June 9, 2009 at 1:36 PM