Obamacare plan finally released; Update: Goodbye, 4th Amendment

posted at 10:45 am on June 6, 2009 by Ed Morrissey

And it’s so large that Patients United Now had to split it into nine different parts, and to put out a bleg for an Army of Patients to scour the bill. The title:Quality Affordable Health Care for All Americans. And the first thing past the title?

[Note: Further revisions are needed to complete the work of integrating provisions into the existing HIPAA structure.]

Maybe they should have finished doing the actual work on the bill before introducing it.  I haven’t had a chance to look at the rest of it, but I’m certain we have plenty of Hot Air readers willing to take caffeine intravenously and put off seeing Star Trek for the 5th time to dig through the bill and find the land mines.  Drop me a line or post a comment with the most troubling references, and we’ll update the post as we go.  In the meantime, watch PUN communications director Amy Menefee discuss the dangers of government-run, single-payer health insurance:

Update: Sorry, that’s not Megyn Kelly.

Update II: It’s worth noting that HIPAA ensures patient privacy, which should be a really big deal if we’re letting the government run everything.  Without knowing how or whether this works with HIPAA, how can Congress even consider this bill?  Speaking of which, on pages 39-40, take a gander at Section 3102, Financial Integrity:

(1) IN GENERAL – A State shall keep an accurate accounting of all activities, receipts, and expenditures of any Gateway operating in such State and annually submit to the Secretary a report concerning such accountings.

(2) INVESTIGATIONS – The Secretary may investigate the affairs of a Gateway, may examine the properties and records of a Gateway, and may require periodical reports in relation to activities undertaken by a Gateway.  A Gateway shall fully cooperate in any investigation conducted under this paragraph.

“Gateway” means “provider,” and this appears to do away with that pesky Fourth Amendment, which normally requires search warrants and probable cause to access the records of individuals and businesses.  Not under ObamaCare!  Now, everyone belongs to the government … rather than the other way around.  George Orwell, call your office!

Update III: Jazz Shaw mainly agrees, but sends a jab to my ribs:

A lot of these voices are the same folks that didn’t seem to think it was any big deal for the government to intercept electronic communications without a warrant, even if one of the participants was a U.S. citizen. They also didn’t care much if the Feds checked out what you were browsing on the computers at the local library or even the books you checked out. In fact, it almost seems as if there’s no problem with such activity so long as it’s a Republican president and he’s doing it in the vague and ambiguous name of the “war on terror.”

He finishes with a Victor Lazlo-esque “Welcome back to the fight” valediction, but in this case, we’re talking apples and oranges.  First, even the NSA program required some sort of probable cause to surveil a communication line, and the FISA court did have some oversight eventually. I won’t dismiss this entirely, though, because it does touch on the same values, but I would also note that the NSA program was intended to catch terrorists, and not doctors who may or may not be billing the government correctly.

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I wonder if O’bama’s lackeys bothered to see what’s happening with the new Massachusetts version of O’bamacare that has been sputtering along for the past 2 years.

Hint: it’s not working.

Del Dolemonte on June 6, 2009 at 10:49 AM

I put out a bleg once, stung like crazy. Now I need Obamacare to pay for my meds.

TMK on June 6, 2009 at 10:49 AM

That’s not Megyn Kelly.

therightscoop on June 6, 2009 at 10:52 AM

I don’t even have to read it to know it’s going to suck.

There are simple ways to fix the healthcare industry and insure those who can’t afford blue cross, but it doesn’t involve huge power gluts for either side of the isle so it will never be a consideration.

I don’t think he’ll be able to revamp health care the way he wants to anyway. Once the cost, the deficit and debt up to 20 trillion by 2018 is considered, I think health care will pretty much fail before it ever gets out of the gate.

Spiritk9 on June 6, 2009 at 10:53 AM

Those that will control the issue of currency will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.

Thomas Jefferson

volsense on June 6, 2009 at 10:53 AM

That’s not Megyn Kelly.

therightscoop on June 6, 2009 at 10:52 AM

It’s Jamie Colby.

Disturb the Universe on June 6, 2009 at 10:56 AM

[Note: Further revisions are needed to complete the work of integrating provisions into the existing HIPAA structure.]

This alone is very menacing. So they want to pass it, then add revisions as they go? I don’t think so!!! Read, and call everyone in D.C. This MUST be stopped. I do not want to wake up one morning, and hear that anyone over the age of 50 will not recieve care, because some arrogant member of Congress who’s 66, decided that even though they get premium care, they can dictate how old is to old, for the rest of us.

Also…I say we scream from the mountain tops, that if we’re forced into this, then all members of Congress must be forced into using it as well.

capejasmine on June 6, 2009 at 10:56 AM

Spiritk9 on June 6, 2009 at 10:53 AM

to be fair, no solution to millions of uninsured americans will be simple.

ernesto on June 6, 2009 at 10:56 AM

OBAMACARE
OBAMASCARE

portlandon on June 6, 2009 at 10:57 AM

to be fair, no solution to millions of uninsured americans will be simple.

ernesto on June 6, 2009 at 10:56 AM

Deport illegals.

TAH DAH!!!

Millions of problems solved.

portlandon on June 6, 2009 at 10:58 AM

Where in the Constitution does it say health care is a right entitled to every citizen?

fogw on June 6, 2009 at 10:59 AM

Deport illegals.

TAH DAH!!!

Millions of problems solved.

portlandon on June 6, 2009 at 10:58 AM

Solves the education crisis, too.

Disturb the Universe on June 6, 2009 at 10:59 AM

Where in the Constitution does it say health care is a right entitled to every citizen?

fogw on June 6, 2009 at 10:59 AM

Much like this bill, the Constitution is a work in progress, don’t you know?
/(sarc.)

Disturb the Universe on June 6, 2009 at 11:01 AM

Judging by the timing, I’m guessing that this was another Friday night dump. Heh. Even the TOTUS knows it’s bad news.

IrishEi on June 6, 2009 at 11:04 AM

Hmm, I took a look at what the government is able to do according to the Constitution and I didn’t see health care anywhere at all…I even did a search!

So evidently these people are just idiots who can’t read.

AbeFroman on June 6, 2009 at 11:04 AM

portlandon on June 6, 2009 at 10:58 AM

a) not a solution in and of itself, even if that were simple. if they’re illegal, and we dont know how many there are…how can just deporting them automatically balance out medical costs to make them affordable for all americans?

b) deporting all illegals would not be a simple thing to do. imagine the logistics of deporting millions of people?

c) who said all illegals are seeking extensive medical care?

ernesto on June 6, 2009 at 11:05 AM

page 154 lines 22-25: (2) Duties – (A)iii….Report immediately to the Congress whenever the Board is of the opinion the amount of the CLASS Independence Fund is unduly small…

I am just skimming the document but this line jumped out at me. Does this mean that the bill is a bottomless pit? Do they get to ask for more money whenever it is deemed to be needed? Just skimming couldn’t find any provisions for paying for this.

Tommy_G on June 6, 2009 at 11:06 AM

The Constitution is a living document. Until Obama kills it, anyway.

Daggett on June 6, 2009 at 11:08 AM

“Gateway” means “provider,” and this appears to do away with that pesky Fourth Amendment, which normally requires search warrants and probable cause to access the records of individuals and businesses. Not under ObamaCare! Now, everyone belongs to the government … rather than the other way around. George Orwell, call your office!

Paging Chris Matthews. What was that you said about big government not being controlling?

Disturb the Universe on June 6, 2009 at 11:10 AM

Once enacted it will never be abolished.

Get your foot in the door and then takeover the whole house.

IT will GROW, GROW…GROW.

artist on June 6, 2009 at 11:11 AM

c) who said all illegals are seeking extensive medical care?

ernesto on June 6, 2009 at 11:05 AM

You are laughably naive.

Disturb the Universe on June 6, 2009 at 11:11 AM

Congress has already given O a blank check to pay for this. There really is no plan other than his vision. Details to be decided later. This is just like his foreign policy. No details other than can’t we all just get along. I see a lot of miser coming.

Kissmygrits on June 6, 2009 at 11:12 AM

[Note: Further revisions are needed to complete the work of integrating provisions into the existing HIPAA structure.]

Everything else aside, this, in and of itself, is very troubling. If you’re responsible enough to have put in place the form of medical-care document available in your state (durable power of attorney for health care, health care advanced directive, health care proxy, and the like), you have named someone to handle medical-care decisions for you when you are unable.

With Obama’s health-care proposal, get used to the idea that you’ve also named the federal government to be involved in the decision-making process with your named representative.

Why? Because liberals always know what’s better for you, and they’ll go to any lengths to prove it to you.

BuckeyeSam on June 6, 2009 at 11:13 AM

If America is to survive, Obama needs to be removed from office.

IrishEi on June 6, 2009 at 11:14 AM

Where are the groups of lawyers advertising on tv for a group lawsuit against any of this stuff O is cramming down our throats. Seems to me the lawyers would be affected due to a loss of malpractice. They better get busy on this.

Kissmygrits on June 6, 2009 at 11:16 AM

Why stop with health care for everyone?

Lets just give everyone a house, a car and a puppy of their choice. It would probably be cheaper than Obarfy’s health care plan, it would be a one time expense and he would have enough voters to keep him in office ad infinitem. After all, that’s what its all about now, isn’t it?

fogw on June 6, 2009 at 11:16 AM

The Dems are cutting their own throats, and I don’t think they care.

ddrintn on June 6, 2009 at 11:16 AM

If America is to survive, Obama needs to be removed from office.

IrishEi on June 6, 2009 at 11:14 AM

It’ll take 3.5 years and about 55 million votes.

Tommy_G on June 6, 2009 at 11:16 AM

Letting ChimpyO, “Dingy” Harry, and Herr Pelosi have access to your private medical data? What could go wrong?

The lemmings willing walk off the cliff because ChimpyO says he’ll be there to catch them.

csdeven on June 6, 2009 at 11:17 AM

c) who said all illegals are seeking extensive medical care?

ernesto on June 6, 2009 at 11:05 AM

This is one of the major problems in the country. Emergency rooms being used for general care. Most ER’s are being overwhelmed with illegals using Emergency Rooms, as if they were going to the doctors office.

When I take my kids to the doctor, the waiting room is filled with those seeking care, and they usually get preferential, and immediate attention over those of us who pay for our care.

I want everyone to have health care, but I don’t think it’s right to pay for illegals care. No one paid for my families health care, when they came to this country. And I certainly do NOT believe the Government can do it, and sustain it. And why do they feel the need to be so invasive in our lives, thru this program? Does that not bother you one iota?

capejasmine on June 6, 2009 at 11:18 AM

The Dems are cutting their own throats, and I don’t think they care.

ddrintn on June 6, 2009 at 11:16 AM

It saves the Jihadis the trouble.(Dems are so accommodating.)

Disturb the Universe on June 6, 2009 at 11:18 AM

Of course the pols will never live under the heinous healthcare system they will inflict upon the rest of us.

Nope, they and their families will have the best care possible with instant entry into reserved facilities staffed by the most qualified doctors.

Bishop on June 6, 2009 at 11:18 AM

If America is to survive, Obama needs to be removed from office.

IrishEi on June 6, 2009 at 11:14 AM

Obama is only an agent of destructive liberalism. There are many in the GOP too, that’s why we’re screwed.

When he’s gone, he’ll be replaced by another liberal.

Did you see today’s WSJ article on the left “losing” power in Europe?

Part of the reason, they note, is b/c the right is MOVING left.

We have the SAME problem.

And it’s not going away, America is.

artist on June 6, 2009 at 11:20 AM

deporting all illegals would not be a simple thing to do. imagine the logistics of deporting millions of people?

ernesto on June 6, 2009 at 11:05 AM

Who said we would deport them, Ernesto? They are welcome to self-deport and leave the same way they got here.

av8tr on June 6, 2009 at 11:20 AM

***

b) deporting all illegals would not be a simple thing to do. imagine the logistics of deporting millions of people?

c) who said all illegals are seeking extensive medical care?

ernesto on June 6, 2009 at 11:05 AM

b) Unemployment’s at 9.4%; establish a bounty system, and I bet that we can solve this problem quickly–GM can manufacture the transport vehicles.

c) You’re kidding, right? Regardless, Dems want them to know who provided them with freebies when Dems ultimately try to ram through amnesty.

BuckeyeSam on June 6, 2009 at 11:20 AM

to be fair, no solution to millions of uninsured americans will be simple.

ernesto on June 6, 2009 at 10:56 AM

True. I should have said “relatively” simple, as in comparison to this mess as well as the tax code.

If America is to survive, Obama needs to be removed from office.

IrishEi on June 6, 2009 at 11:14 AM

As well as the liberals in the house and senate, which includes the pseudo-cons.

Spiritk9 on June 6, 2009 at 11:21 AM

Government healthcare is simply the precursor to the eventual implantation of your healthcare information in the form of an RFID chip of some sort. The government will have your DNA and all your medical records stored in their databases. They can now use that information to bribe officials, force compliance, and various other things that tyrannical governments do to subjugate honest pols and it’s sheepish population. Imagine forced vaccines or else you and your family are cut off from any access to any sort of treatment.

Consider also that the money to pay for this will go to the Fed. We borrow the currency/credit from them and we repay with interest.

We stand at the precipice. Expect strong Republican support.

The money power owns both parties.

True_King on June 6, 2009 at 11:21 AM

If America is to survive, Obama needs to be removed from office. IrishEi on June 6, 2009 at 11:14 AM

True, but look at the line of succession: Plugs Biden; Speaker Botox; Sheets Bird. Which is worse? (Rehtorical question)

Dingbat63 on June 6, 2009 at 11:21 AM

Funny… I don’t see any healthcare in there… I just see a lot of bureacracy…

I wonder if this is how how Obama will handle the car repairs as part of Government Motors…

Consider:

(1) IN GENERAL – A State shall keep an accurate accounting of all activities, receipts, and expenditures of any Repair Center operating in such State and annually submit to the Secretary a report concerning such accountings.

(2) INVESTIGATIONS – The Secretary may investigate the affairs of a Repair Center, may examine the properties and records of a Repair Center, and may require periodical reports in relation to activities undertaken by a Repair Center. A Repair Center shall fully cooperate in any investigation conducted under this paragraph.

Actually.. more frightening is that this boilerplate could be used for the nationalization of ANY business…

Skywise on June 6, 2009 at 11:21 AM

a) not a solution in and of itself, even if that were simple. if they’re illegal, and we dont know how many there are…how can just deporting them automatically balance out medical costs to make them affordable for all americans?

b) deporting all illegals would not be a simple thing to do. imagine the logistics of deporting millions of people?

c) who said all illegals are seeking extensive medical care?

ernesto on June 6, 2009 at 11:05 AM

a. It’s a start. Doing nothing now is making things worse. Heath care costs rise due to Illegals using Emergency rooms as Doctors offices. Than they skip town without paying. The costs of lost revenue are divided up and absorbed by all the people who pay insurance, thus the rising costs.

b.Nothing worth doing is simple. If we can carve through the earth and make the panama canal, put a man on the moon, fly in space, & pump the ocean out of New Orleans and rebuild than how hard is to coordinate people to get back across the border that is 4 states wide?

c.Who says they’re not? The US has the best medical care in the world, why wouldn’t they want it? They drain the system by not paying for it.

portlandon on June 6, 2009 at 11:22 AM

It’ll take 3.5 years and about 55 million votes.

Tommy_G on June 6, 2009 at 11:16 AM

We don’t have 3.5 years. If Obamacare goes through, there will be no turning back.

I hold only the tiniest bit of hope that we see backlash in the 2010 elections. If that doesn’t happen, we are finished.

Rush repeated someone’s comment (unsourced) the other day, and it is terrifyingly true:

If Al Qaeda really wants to destroy America, they better hurry up or Obama’s gonna beat them to it.

IrishEi on June 6, 2009 at 11:22 AM

Seems to me the lawyers would be affected due to a loss of malpractice. They better get busy on this.

Kissmygrits on June 6, 2009 at 11:16 AM

Don’t forget Obama and many pols in DC are lawyers too.

They are political allies.

My guess is they will simply write the legislation to allow them to sue the Fed/state gov’t for malpractice.

Deep pockets too, problem solved.

It’s a lose-lose for tax payers.

artist on June 6, 2009 at 11:22 AM

Both of my State Senators are Democrats. I’m deeply involved with Republican grassroots efforts here in Montana. I will bring this up at our next meeting. We will apply the pressure to our Senators to uphold the Constitution and protect the rights of Montanans. If Tester and Baucus vote for this crap sandwich, it will be their political death.

State by State, we must protect the people from the mighty arm of the Federal Government, especially under this administration.

Keemo on June 6, 2009 at 11:24 AM

Where are the groups of lawyers advertising on tv for a group lawsuit against any of this stuff O is cramming down our throats. Seems to me the lawyers would be affected due to a loss of malpractice. They better get busy on this.

Kissmygrits on June 6, 2009 at 11:16 AM

My guess is that plaintiffs’ attorney lobby sees the federal government as the ultimate deep pocket. And, as bizarre as it seems, the feds will go along with it and pass the cost to the taxpayers. It’s the Alfed E. Newman philsophy of legislating and governing: “What me worry?”

BuckeyeSam on June 6, 2009 at 11:25 AM

Hey this is fantastic!! I mean look how great MediCare is working out!!
And those VA hospitals. Now the rest of Americans can enjoy the great
medical system our government does such a job running!!

SARC OFF………..

izoneguy on June 6, 2009 at 11:26 AM

And it’s not going away, America is.

artist on June 6, 2009 at 11:20 AM

Yes. And it’s devastating.

IrishEi on June 6, 2009 at 11:27 AM

The Dems are cutting their own throats, and I don’t think they care.

ddrintn on June 6, 2009 at 11:16 AM

Will that be covered under the single payer system?

izoneguy on June 6, 2009 at 11:28 AM

Let’s put an administration filled with people who can’t even master Turbo Tax in charge of the great Health Care System in the world. Brilliant idea.

I hope everybody’s comfortabnle with the idea of being told that they’re too old to be treated for a desease because it will cost the government too much money. Because it is happening now in those countries that have Government-run Health Care.

kingsjester on June 6, 2009 at 11:30 AM

Out of all of Obama’s policies, this one frightens me more than any other. The idea that the government would — intentionally or otherwise — run private health care providers out of business, and subsequently refuse or delay coverage of patients in need of urgent care, leaving people to die with no other option…

We have to fight this, people. If there ever was a time for conservatives to stop bickering with each other about who is and isn’t a “true conservative,” and come together to fight a common enemy, this is it. If we fail to stop this, then it doesn’t matter what happens in 2012, or even in 2010. People’s very lives are at stake here.

Caiwyn on June 6, 2009 at 11:32 AM

a. It’s a start. Doing nothing now is making things worse. Heath care costs rise due to Illegals using Emergency rooms as Doctors offices. Than they skip town without paying. The costs of lost revenue are divided up and absorbed by all the people who pay insurance, thus the rising costs.
portlandon on June 6, 2009 at 11:22 AM

That’s not the primary cause for the rise in healthcare costs, the primary culprit is government regulation which increases administrative costs up the wazoo, and government healthcare such as Medicare and Medicaid. They both cap what they are willing to pay and we have to write off the rest as a contractual adjustment.

Medicare, once you get through the red tape and get your physician registered, they are a timely payor, which makes many clinics and hospitals dependent on them (which is its intent) since insurances tend to use stall tactics or are badly managed and deny payment in error. But this dependence is very dangerous. It forces doctors and hospitals into a corner.

The ONLY solution is a free market based system, and the only government provided care should be done at the state level without any federal intervention. The bureaucracy in a healthcare business office is through the roof. It is forced to be a specialized quasi-accounting based system because of it’s implementation of contractuals, cpt’s, diag’s, individualized contracts, modifiers, fee schedules, etc.

Free market should be the backbone, but again, it can’t be because it does not give government and banks what they want – a controlled and perpetually indebted population.

True_King on June 6, 2009 at 11:40 AM

The Dems are cutting their own throats, and I don’t think they care.

ddrintn on June 6, 2009 at 11:16 AM

Will that be covered under the single payer system?

izoneguy on June 6, 2009 at 11:28 AM

Only the best though for our politicians. So, no.

Get ready for a slew of highly-touted polls saying that more than 60% of the country is in favor of ObamaCare. Like clockwork.

ddrintn on June 6, 2009 at 11:45 AM

c) who said all illegals are seeking extensive medical care?

ernesto on June 6, 2009 at 11:05 AM

Come down here to my area (southern AZ) and visit any emergency room. In fact, visit all of them; you’ll see the same thing: illegals, and lots of them, waiting to receive their “free” (to them, because they use phony ID’s with fake billing addresses) medical care.

And the “47 million uninsured Americans” we’re always hearing about includes about 20 million illegal aliens. Do you seriously think they’ll be excluded from the new plan? They weren’t excluded from the “stimulus” bill, or from the expanded S-CHIP, despite repeated attempts by several Congresspersons to do so. They won’t be excluded from this new plan either.

AZCoyote on June 6, 2009 at 11:46 AM

If America is to survive, Obama needs to be removed from office.

IrishEi on June 6, 2009 at 11:14 AM

A tad to late now. But look on the bright side. We have a cool black president, a first lady with looks and fashion that super models envy, everyone in the world loves us to death and a hardcore right leaning MSM that is slowly moving to the center because of the greatness of the One. What more could we ask for. Life is wonderful and getting better each day we are graced with BO.

jmarcure on June 6, 2009 at 11:47 AM

a) not a solution in and of itself, even if that were simple. if they’re illegal, and we dont know how many there are…how can just deporting them automatically balance out medical costs to make them affordable for all americans?

b) deporting all illegals would not be a simple thing to do. imagine the logistics of deporting millions of people?

c) who said all illegals are seeking extensive medical care?

ernesto on June 6, 2009 at 11:05 AM

You don’t have to round them up and deport them; that’s impractical. Just remove any reason for them to be here: ie. enforce laws against employing them. Without jobs, most of them will self-deport, as has been Arizona’s experience after their crackdown on employing illegals. It’s really that simple.

mr.blacksheep on June 6, 2009 at 11:49 AM

What to look for:

1. Will Medicare and Medicaid formulas be used for the public health program.
2. Will those without insurance but can afford it be mandated to purchase it.
3. Does it include taxes of benefits.
4. Will it mandate that companies that do not provide insurance contribute extra in taxes.
5. Will illegal aliens qualify for the program.
6. Does it include a subsidy to buy health insurance if you are working class.

These are the tip of the iceberg. Expect a lot of other stuff such as more money for teaching hospitals and electronic records, but those things can be done separate from any comprehensive reform, but the Dems are gonna lard up the bill with some good ideas to cover the horrendous nature of what they are doing. In other news the AMA has come out against the Public Insurance aspect.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601213&sid=aAzkC_qpVkSA

rob verdi on June 6, 2009 at 11:49 AM

Get ready for a slew of highly-touted polls saying that more than 60% of the country is in favor of ObamaCare. Like clockwork.

ddrintn on June 6, 2009 at 11:45 AM

Are you for real? It will be 85% at the very least and I fully expect 98% or even 125% if ACORN has its way.

jmarcure on June 6, 2009 at 11:49 AM

a first lady with looks and fashion that super models tankers envy,

Fixed it for you.

mr.blacksheep on June 6, 2009 at 11:50 AM

Obama and cadre want to have something they can control deeply so they can say “we did it”.

It is too complex a problem for government to address in detail. Nobody, much less Bama et. al., is smart enough.

As Hillarycare had many punitive measures to make sure people did what they were told, so will this “evolve”, and the approach will flow into other social engineering initiatives.

Forget the cost, this is morally wrong if we are to call ourselves a free country.

Harry Schell on June 6, 2009 at 11:51 AM

Fixed it for you.

mr.blacksheep on June 6, 2009 at 11:50 AM

Super Tankers are lifeless machines and can not envy. On the other hand BO worshipers are pretty lifeless and brainless to boot so I guess you do have a point.

jmarcure on June 6, 2009 at 11:54 AM

portlandon on June 6, 2009 at 11:22 AM

I agree, outside of the fact that i said “extensive” care for a reason. there are people here throwing around terms like “most er’s are overrun” with illegals…just absolute terms for this, when in reality, no ones surveyed every hospital to see how many are taking free care, how many of those freebies are to illegals, and just how much that care costs relative to the size of the system.

surely there are abuses among the illegal alien community, but in dollar terms, do they outweigh medicare fraud? or the american citizens who seek emergency room care because they have no insurance? and what are the illegals seeking when they go? im sure they arent taking a day off their 3 jobs to take little jose to the hospital because he’s got a cough…

ernesto on June 6, 2009 at 11:59 AM

ernesto

We already have socialized medicine. It’s our own brand of socialized medicine, we do it through a combination of a variety of tax-payer funded & government run programs like Medicare/Medicaid, Clinics run in cooperation with major universities attached to Med Schools/nursing programs/physical therapy school/ pharm school etc. AND private charity based programs like the Catholic Charity hospitals, Shriners, Etc.

We, as a nation provide the BEST care in the world and it FREE! FREE! So yes quite a few people come here illegally to obtain it. Unfortunately our good nature is overwhelmed by our open doors not just to the illegals but by our own citizens who are also know to call 911 when their chicken mcnuggets are short by 1 mcnugget. Too lazy to go to the free clinic for their shots on time they flood the ER the night after school starts to get their kids immunizations UTD. Instead of telling the illegals to go home & the “Mcnuggets” to go to the clinic we are polite & tend to them.

You Ernesto, you want to fix health care by making everything equal but you don’t understand – the only equality that can happen at this point is that we will all be mcnuggets. We don’t have the capacity to elevate the entirety to to private pay system. Your choice is the Kindness that can kill, I choose freewill (to paraphrase Rush) and the free market system. Our Ameri-socialized medicine is not perfect but if enforced the Mcnuggets going to the clinics & sent the illegals on their way it would work very very well.

batterup on June 6, 2009 at 12:02 PM

batterup on June 6, 2009 at 12:02 PM

I didn’t say anything as to what system I’d consider proper and successful. I was only commenting originally that even an orthodox conservative solution would not be easy…and then that simply deporting illegals is of questionable value to the goal of insuring all americans…the stated goal of just about anyone looking into health care reform.

i abhor absolute terms for that which we do not know. people say “every” “most” or “all” when they mean “some” or “a few”. thats really the only point i was trying to make.

ernesto on June 6, 2009 at 12:06 PM

I have a stupid question. I already have insurance through my employer. It’s pretty good insurance and I don’t pay much for it. I pay deductibles and co-pays. Do I get to keep that or is the government going to yank that out from under us and make us become insured under his miserable plan? It wouldn’t surprise me at all if Obama decided he’d like to run all the insurance companies as well as the banks and the auto industry. If that’s the case I’ll have to move to Mexico I guess.

scalleywag on June 6, 2009 at 12:07 PM

(1) IN GENERAL – A State shall keep an accurate accounting of all activities, receipts, and expenditures of any Gateway operating in such State and annually submit to the Secretary a report concerning such accountings.

What I would really like to see is states refusing to do this. The Federal Government does not have the right to order states around like this. It is about time that some state legislatures just refused to cooperate.

Buford on June 6, 2009 at 12:09 PM

Buford on June 6, 2009 at 12:09 PM

Im sure those “orders” can be ignored, at the probable expense of forgoing certain funding. and if “ordering states around” bothers you, take solace in the fact that Reagan himself “ordered” the states to raise the drinking age by threatening to withhold funds. im sure this is a similar mechanism.

ernesto on June 6, 2009 at 12:12 PM

You don’t have to round them up and deport them; that’s impractical. Just remove any reason for them to be here: ie. enforce laws against employing them. Without jobs, most of them will self-deport, as has been Arizona’s experience after their crackdown on employing illegals. It’s really that simple.

mr.blacksheep on June 6, 2009 at 11:49 AM

Your comment reminded me of a thought I had the other day. While dining at a Chinese restaurant, I was watching the waitress, and staff. All Chinese Americans. They spoke to each other in Chinese, were very kind, and gentle, and attentive to their patrons. It got me to thinking. They , or their parents came to this country, seeking freedom, from oppression, and tyranny in their country of China. Now I wonder, what most immigrants, illegal, or otherwise, think of this? They flea tyranny, only to have it on the threshold in their new country. Their opportunity, as small business owners is at risk…by higher taxes, and nationalization of EVERYTHING.

I can’t help but wonder, if free health care to illegals, is enough of an incentive to keep them happy, when they too, will be caught up in the reality of what’s to come, and Obama did say….we haven’t seen anything yet.

capejasmine on June 6, 2009 at 12:12 PM

Im sure those “orders” can be ignored, at the probable expense of forgoing certain funding. and if “ordering states around” bothers you, take solace in the fact that Reagan himself “ordered” the states to raise the drinking age by threatening to withhold funds. im sure this is a similar mechanism.

ernesto on June 6, 2009 at 12:12 PM

Withholding funds is one thing. Outright, usurping, and overruling states rights, which are protected by the constitution, are another.

capejasmine on June 6, 2009 at 12:14 PM

Update: Sorry, that’s not Megyn Kelly.

It’s ok Ed, hot is hot.

boomer on June 6, 2009 at 12:14 PM

Buford on June 6, 2009 at 12:09 PM

They don’t have the right to do a lot of things they do, and yet…

boomer on June 6, 2009 at 12:15 PM

There is nothing we can do about it.

tomas on June 6, 2009 at 12:16 PM

capejasmine on June 6, 2009 at 12:14 PM

You’ve forgoten, the constitution doesn’t exist unless it benefits the democrats.

boomer on June 6, 2009 at 12:17 PM

but I’m certain we have plenty of Hot Air readers willing to take caffeine intravenously and put off seeing Star Trek for the 5th time to dig through the bill

Not .. A.. Chance…

If congress isn’t going to read the bill before they pass it, then I’m not going to read the bill to live under it. I’m going to play blind, deaf, and stupid. Someone comes up to me and says. “blah …blah…blah…blahh. Blah”

My reply will be ‘ok’, and I’ll keep on doing whatever it was I was doing before I was interrupted.

Now I’ll go read the comments and see what everyone else thinks.. .

Skandia Recluse on June 6, 2009 at 12:19 PM

All of your health records are belong to us.

BPD on June 6, 2009 at 12:22 PM

capejasmine on June 6, 2009 at 12:14 PM

and ive noted that. if it turns out that this isnt some sort of barrier to entry for funding…if its just some decree, then id consider it exactly as you describe. however, whether or not this clause fits either description is not clear, which was my only point.

ernesto on June 6, 2009 at 12:24 PM

It’ll take 3.5 years and about 55 million votes.

Tommy_G on June 6, 2009 at 11:16 AM

I would’nt get to comfortable with that thought as i keep having this funny feeling that if we come up with 60 million they will have 65 million and so on and so on till there’s more voters than citizen’s in the country.

heshtesh on June 6, 2009 at 12:28 PM

I don’t think “gateway” means doctor in this bill.

Found this gem:
Page 55, line 6: “FEDERAL FALLBACK IN THE CASE OF STATES THAT REFUSE TO IMPROVE HEALTH CARE COVERAGE”

p. 75 line 21: “NO FEDERAL FUNDING–Nothing in this Act shall allow Federal payments for individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States

rosewaning on June 6, 2009 at 12:30 PM

All this means is in a couple of years, I’ll be looking for a new job.

Because suddenly, all medical providers will be honest individuals not scamming people and insurance (or Obamacare) out of millions of dollars. Because that’s totally how it works.

mjk on June 6, 2009 at 12:32 PM

It’s a start. Doing nothing now is making things worse. Heath care costs rise due. . . .
portlandon on June 6, 2009 at 11:22 AM

I disagree. Health care costs are going through the roof because when someone is ill, or injured they go to the doctor and say: “I am sick (or injured) HEAL ME!. And the Dr says, “do you have insurance?”

The patient’s answer is either, yes if they have insurance, or “I have a right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. I am sick (or injured) you can cure my affliction, and some one else must pay for it.

That is the reason health care costs so much. The people demanding the service are not paying for it..Same thing with taxes. The people paying the taxes don’t see the money going out, don’t write the checks.

Skandia Recluse on June 6, 2009 at 12:35 PM

A State shall keep an accurate accounting of all activities, receipts, and expenditures of any Gateway

uh, the gov’t can’t keep track of the money the treasury has spent, so why the renewed confidence in how they will manage the “gateway”.

Gangplank more like…

jbh45 on June 6, 2009 at 12:37 PM

Remember if deporting millions of illegals is too tough to do… then apply that exact, same reasoning to health care.

Now the first is the job of Congress to do. The second is given in no place to the federal government to do. If you think the second can be done by complex rules, then why can’t the first be done with simple ones?

Why is government trying to ignore one impossible thing to spend oodles on another impossible one, as health care is infinitely more complex than deporting illegals, who only have one problem to deal with? No bureaucrat can write up all the possible perumutations of needs for health care to address the population of the United States as it is a factorial combination problem of conditions: the possibilities are endless and no set of rules, even blanket rules covers everyone. That is why we reserve anything NOT given to the federal government to the States and the people: so that the few jobs we DO give the federal government just might get done. Now it is too big to do any job well… and people use twisted logic on why giving more to do is a ‘good idea’ even after the government has been ‘helping’ there since WWII. And that is when the problems start: after WWII with government ‘help’.

Thanks, but no thanks, we are better off with no ‘help’ at all. The American people can use liberty to decide their own health needs and how to address them, and then give charitably to lean operations with low overhead to help each other out without the need of a bureaucracy that absorbs 35% of the money going into it for zero return as it IS. And 55% at worse. That is what you get with government ‘help’ and post-WWII subsidies and kickbacks from taxes, plus increased regulations show that, clearly.

And let government do the jobs it is GIVEN to do and MUST do. Not the ones it wants to do… which robs us of liberty and freedom for low returns and becoming subjects of government. I intend to remain a citizen, come hell or high water as any health care system run by government will kill me. Yeah, I have piss poor health. I don’t want government ‘help’: I want to survive.

ajacksonian on June 6, 2009 at 12:38 PM

All of you people advocating for smaller government are fearmongering. Fear, Fear, Fear. Now, please excuse me while I remove my kneepads.

/chrissy

BPD on June 6, 2009 at 12:40 PM

Let’s see…angryed you need a kidney transplant, uh, huhh, let me pull up your records here….yes, yes, ooooohhh, oooohhhh, hmmmmm, I see in 2009 you posted some unflatering comments about The Great One on one of the racist websites that questioned The Great One’s greatness.

Sorry, no transplant for you.

NEXT!!

angryed on June 6, 2009 at 12:42 PM

Time to impeach on High Crimes and Misdemeanors!

xler8bmw on June 6, 2009 at 12:46 PM

By total coincidence Rasmussen has DER OBAMA at 53% today…..the lowest number EVAH!

angryed on June 6, 2009 at 12:46 PM

Deport illegals.

TAH DAH!!!

Millions of problems solved.

portlandon on June 6, 2009 at 10:58 AM

Solves the education crisis, too.

Disturb the Universe on June 6, 2009 at 10:59 AM

And prison overcrowding,too. It’d be a big help on gang activity also.

darwin-t on June 6, 2009 at 12:48 PM

By total coincidence Rasmussen has DER OBAMA at 53% today…..the lowest number EVAH!

angryed on June 6, 2009 at 12:46 PM

Just wait till the fall, when earnings come in low, the bond market blows up and the stock market begins wave two down to set new lows.

BPD on June 6, 2009 at 12:49 PM

Goodbye Fourth Amendment?

Hell, that evaporated ages ago. And if you don’t believe that, you’ve never been pulled over by Barney Fife and company.

Dr. ZhivBlago on June 6, 2009 at 12:49 PM

There is a little thing called Standard of Care and a little known group called trial lawyers. Now, if the doctor makes decisions that are deemed by some politically appointed, beauracratic hack as being outside the standard of care, he is exposing himself to malpractice and may suffer financial loss and/or lose his license. The question is who will be the politically appointed hack? Will it be someone who has the intellect to determine a breach in care? I doubt it.

I honestly don’t see anyone pursuing this profession once this bill is passed. I also don’t see any insurance carrier wanting to cover the malpractice. The risk is too high.

jbh45 on June 6, 2009 at 12:52 PM

God gave us free will.

Democrats seek to take it away.

Kensington on June 6, 2009 at 12:54 PM

Remember Obamath!

Spending billions and billions of dollars will help us save a coupla million down the road!

Skywise on June 6, 2009 at 12:54 PM

Why is government trying to ignore one impossible thing to spend oodles on another impossible one, as health care is infinitely more complex than deporting illegals, who only have one problem to deal with?

Simple, illegals can vote for them and dead Americans can’t. Well, I take that back, some dead Americans still vote for democrats, but you get the idea.

darwin-t on June 6, 2009 at 12:55 PM

ernesto on June 6, 2009 at 10:56 AM

Its not a problem the government should solve. Never was. Its the job of each American to take responsibility for themselves.

dogsoldier on June 6, 2009 at 12:57 PM

Goodbye Fourth Amendment?

Hell, that evaporated ages ago. And if you don’t believe that, you’ve never been pulled over by Barney Fife and company.

Dr. ZhivBlago on June 6, 2009 at 12:49 PM

Cop: You don”t have any machine guns or bazookas in your car do you? (laughs)

You: Of course not!

Cop: Well, you don’t mind if I look then, do you?

If you sat no, then that is probable cause for the cop to think you’re hiding something.

darwin-t on June 6, 2009 at 12:58 PM

Folks, this is a great reason to support the Bill of Federalism. Even the specter of it may be enough to bring some of our legislators to heel. And because the required vote is by state the red states will have a significant advantage, if they can push this through the state legislatures.

njcommuter on June 6, 2009 at 1:04 PM

We will, in a gratuitous manner be providing health care to the entire planet and the entire planet will then be obligated to give up control of every tiny potential cost/benefit facet of their entire lives for the good of the world commune.

Its Dr. Raymond Cocteau’s plan come true.

Not just the 4th amendment, every amendment that might allow anything dangerous or unhealthy to happen, goes away.

Speakup on June 6, 2009 at 1:17 PM

Maybe the idea is to turn this country into such a pile of crap that people stop moving here illegally.

Jim Treacher on June 6, 2009 at 1:18 PM

Scanned the comments and did not find the Kelly link.

I posted this yesterday where Megyn Kelly rips Bernie Sanders in this video where he proclaims “there is no plan”.

It’s a good one!

(maybe Ed would like to grab the inbed code)

Rovin on June 6, 2009 at 1:18 PM

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