George Tiller murdered
posted at 8:59 pm on May 31, 2009 by Allahpundit
My two thoughts on this: (1) Murder is bad and wrong; (2) blogs will be even more insufferable than usual this week. The cops haven’t confirmed yet that the shooting was political but given Tiller’s infamy for performing late-term abortions plus the fact that he was shot once before, there’s little doubt what the motive was. I wish I could say there are no Bill Ayers types on our side, but I can’t; I wish I could say there are no right-wing nutroots degenerates online cheering them on, but I can’t say that either. As for those who condemn the murder while merrily hoping that he’s burning in hell, let a poor confused atheist ask you this: Isn’t the proper Christian response to any death to pray that God will have mercy on a flawed, fallible sinner, who’s now at last seen the error of his ways? Tiller might have changed his mind about abortion and repented in years to come but his killer’s deprived him of the chance. No prayers that God will take that into consideration?
I’m going to give you guys the benefit of the doubt and leave comments open, but if I see anything in the vein of what LGF has noted, the thread will be shut and offenders summarily banned. If you can’t resist pissing on a man’s grave, doubtless there are other blogs that will accommodate you. Don’t let me down.
Update (Ed): The murder of George Tiller at his church is a heinous crime, without any sense or justice. Regardless of how one feels about George Tiller’s profession, his murderer is nothing more than a domestic terrorist — someone attempting to impose by force a policy that one cannot get in place through democratic means. Tiller’s killer is no better than William Ayers, Kathleen Soliah, and Eric Rudolph, people who attempted to use violence for their extremist ends. Those who value life know that murder is the antithesis of the pro-life movement.
Update: The suspect’s name is Scott Roeder. Circumstantial evidence suggests that the motive was indeed political.
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It doesn’t help when your blog moderator does the work for them.
LastRick on May 31, 2009 at 9:24 PM
Exactly. Another will fill his shoes.
therightscoop on May 31, 2009 at 9:24 PM
This is a free forum. I’m not shocked by some of those who are lining up to applaud this murder…they, like the paulnuts, are easily fingered. So, make note of the names…these are people who are not conservative…they are nuts.
AUINSC on May 31, 2009 at 9:25 PM
And as for cowardly comment blocking and erasing used by AP – it won’t do any good for ratings, nor will it get O’Reilly off your back. Learn from LGF’s mistakes.
Aristotle on May 31, 2009 at 9:25 PM
Yeah, the left is acting like he was MLK. Enough already.
I have no doubt he will be charged and convicted of capital murder. But since Kansas has not executed anyone since the death penalty was reinstated in 1976, he’ll die of old age. As a strong believer in the death penalty, thanks leftards!
Blake on May 31, 2009 at 9:25 PM
I don’t like the idea of abortion, especially the late term, on demand kind. I will oppose it as a method of birth control until my dying day…
All that said, it is obscene to kill Tiller, and try to justify it in the name of God…
Regardless of what justice we think is meted out on this plane o eistence, I believe that all Christians, and Christ himself, would agree that Tiller’s ultimate judgement would have come on the next plane of existence…
Having said my piece, it also unconscionable how many on the left are desperately trying to use this tragedy to make political hay…
Sullivan, Marcotte, and their ilk are intellectual and moral guttersnipes who seek any bolster, regardless of how non-sequitor, to their ideological arguments…
As always, the moral relevists will try to draw an equivalence between this random transgression and the organized acts of the Islamo-fascist terror networks; designed to score political points of their own…
By their own yardstick, these people are like the AQ spokespeople, who come out of their rat-holes immediately after an act, to proclaim their point of view on the acts validity or justification…
But really, it’s time for the left to stop with the vilification of their poitical opponents; to stop employing their long held favorite tactic of the politics of personal destruction…
Our system was designed to operate with well intentioned people arguing their points of view, and recognizing that they could disagree without being disagreeable asses!
The left needs to stop playing the semantics games, to state their positions clearly and without all of the usual vitriol and sarcasm, and count on the merits of their ideas to convince folks instead of the propaganda ploys…
I Have a Dream…
RocketmanBob on May 31, 2009 at 9:25 PM
Well whoever committed this murder is indeed a fool if he thinks it will help the pro-life cause in any way. I cant imagine anything that will (rightly or wrongly) hurt that cause.
In a church no less. Disgusting. I hope the murderer is caught and given swift justice which should be life in prison with no parole.
Dash on May 31, 2009 at 9:26 PM
Ugh.
Not cheering it on or anything. Dude will get life in prison at least, as he should. But I’d be lying if I said I was bent out of shape over this. I’m definitely not happy or anything, but I just don’t get upset when evil people die. This upset me about as much as when I heard that Dahmer was killed while in prison. Just doesn’t induce outrage. Tiller was a murderer in my eyes. And I say this as a pro-choice with restrictions type of guy.
moonbat monitor on May 31, 2009 at 9:26 PM
+++++++++++++++
LibTired (KO) on May 31, 2009 at 9:27 PM
How in the world is it cowardly? This should be good.
What would you do if one of your acquaintances came to your work and started saying vile and disgusting things?
misterpeasea on May 31, 2009 at 9:27 PM
AP wouldn’t have to do what he does if we didn’t have certain folks running around here saying dumb things
blatantblue on May 31, 2009 at 9:27 PM
The fact is taking a human life without such due processes that are required by the state is murder …regardless of Dr. tiller’s profession the shooter denied him his day in court. I truly hope that the shooter is not denied his. My position on this act is it is domestic terrorism in the lowest form. It is bad enough to take the man’s life but in his church…way over any line that could possibly be justified.
JKotthoff on May 31, 2009 at 9:27 PM
Kudos to Ed and AP for calling a spade a spade. Terrorism is terrorism no matter the ideology.
Grow Fins on May 31, 2009 at 9:27 PM
What’s “nuts” is a society and a people who right laws that allows “doctors” like Dr. Tiller to do what they do.
Opposing that with every fiber of your being is not “nuts”, it’s basic humanity.
NoDonkey on May 31, 2009 at 9:27 PM
In addition to this being a horrible crime, it’s going to make the pro-life movement harder to advance politically, at a time when the polls have been swaying to our side. Nothing delegitimizes rational persuasion like an irrational act.
Weight of Glory on May 31, 2009 at 9:27 PM
seriously dude, take that shit somewhere else.
therightscoop on May 31, 2009 at 9:28 PM
This is horrible. My thoughts go out to George Tiller’s family. There are sick people in this world.
taney71 on May 31, 2009 at 9:28 PM
Blake I can assure you the leftoids will make an exception and this guy will be executed(correctly) sooner rather than later if convicted….nobody shed tears for McVeigh and nobody will lament this guy passing….the moonbats will engage in their secular humanist passion play about what a great humanitarian the baby butcher was and after they get their milegae out of it the shooter will be killed.
bet you a donut and coffee on it.
sven10077 on May 31, 2009 at 9:28 PM
Fortunately, there are only a small handful of doctors that perform late-term abortions like Dr. Tiller.
But again, he simply had an office. It’s the women who went to him that solely are to blame for these abortions. They made the choice. Killing Tiller, or any doctor, doesn’t solve anything. More needs to be done to convince more women to chose life, that’s all.
JetBoy on May 31, 2009 at 9:28 PM
On the first, absolutely, but I’m a little sketchy with hoping God will look the other way because of the possibility of some future conversion. I pray for his family.
Murder is murder, and the fact that anyone have trouble seeing that paints a dark picture of our society.
emailnuevo on May 31, 2009 at 9:28 PM
This is one instance in which I say an “eye for an eye will leave us all blind.”
When it comes to jihadis, though…
“DON’T SHOOT! LET ‘EM BURN!”
blatantblue on May 31, 2009 at 9:28 PM
Well put.
AprilOrit on May 31, 2009 at 9:28 PM
Then you’ve just bought their agenda…the ends justify the means.
AUINSC on May 31, 2009 at 9:29 PM
This is for sure going to be used to say any person who is pro-life and promotes the pro-life cause is inciting murder and violence, just like the homosexual lobby says anyone who opposes gay marriage and thinks homosexuality is a sin according to scripture is encouraging and inciting violence as well.
TTheoLogan on May 31, 2009 at 9:29 PM
Let me guess. Crap like this won’t be banned, but regulars are to sit up straight and be on their bestest behavior.
Bye.
Marcus on May 31, 2009 at 9:29 PM
Christ will certainly judge both George Tiller and Scott Roeder. Only He knows if Tiller repented and the hearts of both men. Justice will be done.
sinsing on May 31, 2009 at 9:29 PM
you’re an idiot… sorry…
Ampersand on May 31, 2009 at 9:29 PM
I think early term abortions are a necessary evil, and should remain legal, but I won’t focus on that with this post. The following poster from Ace brings up a point I have thought about over the years:
It’s my guess that most of the anti-abortion people that call abortion outright “murder” don’t really believe what they say, otherwise they’d revolt, no?
Murder is what happened to Tiller today, and abortion is a troublesome gray area, which is why we deal with it the way we do.
==================
I shudder to think how the left will spin this. One thing some will say is the DHS report was right.
toliver on May 31, 2009 at 9:30 PM
Well I agree that most of the blame lays on the shoulders of the mothers who send their babies into the meat grinder…
however, some is on the doc’s, who
a) do the procedure
b) probably don’t try to promote other alternatives.
blatantblue on May 31, 2009 at 9:30 PM
If there is anything redeeming about this it would be that Tiller’s death will bring the abortion debate to the surface in a big way.
I’m all for that. I just don’t trust the pols and pundits to maximize the opportunity.
katy on May 31, 2009 at 9:30 PM
WTF?
Puddleglum on May 31, 2009 at 9:30 PM
I am *certain* you bewail the loss of limbs and life ELF and other eco terrs engage in right Fins?
sven10077 on May 31, 2009 at 9:30 PM
I have to say that considering what he did for a living, I was taken back by him being in church. Apparently, he is a big donor of the church and with his significant help, they were able to build the church.
Blake on May 31, 2009 at 9:30 PM
AP and Ed. I request that this be pulled. Get out.
Weight of Glory on May 31, 2009 at 9:30 PM
Yes and only God can decide their fate…no self appointed avenging angel.
AUINSC on May 31, 2009 at 9:30 PM
Does “using this man’s death to score political points against opponents” qualify as “pissing on a man’s grave”? Or is that just righties who express something other than sadness at the death?
amerpundit on May 31, 2009 at 9:31 PM
Exactly right Weight,
I get the same knot in my stomach every time some stupid white trash hillbilly puts on a hood and drags some black guy behind a truck. All southerners are pointed to and called racist for it.
conservnut on May 31, 2009 at 9:31 PM
Creepy. Seems like a self-styled “prophet” like old John Brown circa 1860.
jgapinoy on May 31, 2009 at 9:31 PM
Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity are to be blamed for this
money2 on May 31, 2009 at 9:27 PM
Hey look, “nice343″ is back under his other name. Hey nice, how are things after being banned?
Bishop on May 31, 2009 at 9:32 PM
Isn’t the proper Christian response to any death to pray that God will have mercy on a flawed, fallible sinner, who’s now at last seen the error of his ways?
Yes. Good post.
Mr. D on May 31, 2009 at 9:32 PM
AP, I agree with you as well as Ed.
aikidoka on May 31, 2009 at 9:32 PM
Very subtle.
Cindy Munford on May 31, 2009 at 9:32 PM
Depends on your definition of “dumb things”, and the scope of it. At some point it gets cowardly.
No doubt, millions are happy to see a mass murdered dead, even if they don’t support the vigilante murder. Blocking their opinions as dumb, is not a smart move. Just saying…
Aristotle on May 31, 2009 at 9:32 PM
I think Dobson will be given at least as much blame.
jgapinoy on May 31, 2009 at 9:32 PM
Respectfully, I don’t think we needed Ed to tell us what a spade is. This guy is pathetic and we all can see that.
tomas on May 31, 2009 at 9:33 PM
He’d never get his day in court because of the corruption that runs amok in our system.
Had he actually appeared in court for what he had done he would hav been in prison but we all know that the left would have roadblocked a trial at every step. Go ask Health Secretary Sebilius about the steps she took and the $ to keep him afloat.
larvcom on May 31, 2009 at 9:33 PM
TMK:
Prayers for the dead is not “invented” by the Roman Catholic Church, and it IS scriptural. Luther removed the books which contained evidence of prayers for the dead: Maccabees.
Also:
atheling on May 31, 2009 at 9:33 PM
But at least it will make us even. :) Sorry, can’t help it. I hear this all the time from the anti-dp crowd.
Blake on May 31, 2009 at 9:33 PM
What I said earlier under another open thread here.
The women pay, hire, contract them to do the dirty deed, it’s their bodies, their choice.
The idea that these women are brainwashed and it’s all the doctor’s fault is just so unfair.
AprilOrit on May 31, 2009 at 9:33 PM
I agree.
ladyingray on May 31, 2009 at 9:33 PM
Dude, just stop posting. Quit politicizing this mans death. It was wrong, just as you are wrong in your comments.
Seriously, go hang out at dkos.
therightscoop on May 31, 2009 at 9:33 PM
Yes, but.
I fully disagree with the person who shot George Tiller and think that it reflects badly on the pro-life movement and undermines our principles… BUT.
You’re ignoring the fact that there are no democratic means for getting pro-life policies through. In fact, the pro-abortionists are doing their best to ensure that abortion is never put to a vote. Those who talk about the legality of Tiller’s work and the other avenues for advancing the pro-life viewpoint forget that legality and justice are not the same thing, and that our opponents are making it their life’s work to close off alternative pathways to advancing the sanctity of life.
Yes, this is a horrible crime – hypocritical, cruel, violent, and stupid in that it will not save a single child – but we cannot forget why people feel compelled to do these things. Rather than blaming ourselves and the pro-life movement, we ought to place the blame squarely where it belongs: on the murderer and on the shoulders of a society that has made the slaughter of innocent children its most sacred right.
Roxeanne de Luca on May 31, 2009 at 9:33 PM
Thankfully I haven’t see anybody taking up for this nutcase on HotAir but I know those type of people exist.
Only a really disturbed individual would kill for political reasons.
therightwinger on May 31, 2009 at 9:34 PM
Get a life reveals its second account.
I just think it was proper and prudent of AP to end comments on the headline thread.
It was fresh news, no one digested it, and things might have gotten out of hand
blatantblue on May 31, 2009 at 9:34 PM
And yet the activity of William Ayers and the Weather Underground was dismissed as anti-war hooligans who were really just concerned with safety. And the same people will dismiss the activity of AQ, Hamas, etc. as a simply response to U.S. aggression.
amerpundit on May 31, 2009 at 9:34 PM
Nice. I mean, really, really nice.
ladyingray on May 31, 2009 at 9:34 PM
Keith, is that you?
How’d the Yankees do today?
SteveMG on May 31, 2009 at 9:34 PM
money2 on May 31, 2009 at 9:32 PM
Spoken by someone who listens to neither Rush nor Hannity but has decided to turn a tragedy into political gain.
Never waste a crisis, right?
powerpro on May 31, 2009 at 9:34 PM
If the leftists and Obama want to have their outrage and turn this into the political message du jour about the incivility of the right, let them.
Two words.
William.
Ayers.
Still outraged Mr. Obama?
Skywise on May 31, 2009 at 9:34 PM
When it gets to the point where abortion becomes manditory (and it will, believe it), you will see a revolt. But as long as abortion remains the free-will act of a selfish whore and a murderous profiteer, civilized men and women will continue to combat baby abortion through peaceful measures.
TMK on May 31, 2009 at 9:35 PM
oooh look, here’s another.
ladyingray on May 31, 2009 at 9:35 PM
Well I hope the alleged killer wears a “Barack Obama Rocks” button at his trial.
atheling on May 31, 2009 at 9:35 PM
That’s as asinine as saying Obama’s FOCA drove him to it.
katy on May 31, 2009 at 9:35 PM
I have no sympathy for either party. The guy who killed tiller is a murderer but so is Tiller. Atleast the abortion numbers in Kansas should decline a lot.
Keep in mind the huge difference between a early term abortion and partial birth abortion.
lavell12 on May 31, 2009 at 9:35 PM
Look guys…when I say Tiller was only “doing his job”, I am in no way condoning what he did for a living. As far as I’m concerned, abortion should be illegal. It’s murder. So is shooting and killing an abortion doctor.
You cannot justify valuing “life” by performing cold-blooded murder. You want these doctors out of business? Cut off their demand, by educating more expectant mothers. No customers means a change of career.
And I don’t see too many people “for shame-ing” the ones who get these late-term abortions.
JetBoy on May 31, 2009 at 9:35 PM
Seriously, what kind of breakdown in your mental processes has to happen for you to think this?
Puddleglum on May 31, 2009 at 9:35 PM
The moonbats may want that, but the way it’s set up, he’s got 20 or more years of appeals.
Blake on May 31, 2009 at 9:36 PM
This is the act of one person and one person only.
tomas on May 31, 2009 at 9:36 PM
The real deal is that justice depends on which environment you’re in – spiritual or physical?
God gave us choices. Tiller made his and got paid millions of dollars for choosing to kill innocents. His killer made his choice to end Tiller’s life and now will pay in something other than dollars (assuming no jury nullification).
All of that is in the physical.
There is a difference between killing and murder, in both the physical and the spiritual realms. God’s laws apply only to His people. God’s laws don’t apply to those who aren’t His.
Religion is a creation of man. Whatever religion a person is has nothing to do with God and He does not concern Himself with how that religion operates on earth. The people in a religion may very well behave more godly than the next person but it has nothing to do with God – it is that person’s choice to behave better than others.
Some acts are evil and are condemned for all inhabitants of the planet. The Hebrew old testament called these things abominations and the Flood was based on mankind’s persistent doing of abominations, long before there were Hebrews and Mosaic Law (Torah).
So let’s try to be honest about this. Tiller had blood on his hands under ANY social system. The legality of what he did CANNOT and DID NOT change the nature of what he did – it was abominable.
Therefore, he could find no safety because nature has no place for evildoers like him. Yes, the man who killed him must answer UNDER OUR LEGAL SYSTEM but how God judges him is not known to man.
Read Job chapter 1-3 for an indication of what God will authorize certain spirits to do to a man.
We cannot know the mind of God which is the main reason He sent His Son here to die – so we could have forgiveness.
We can strive to forgive Tiller and his killer but the honest truth is that if we were capable of true forgiveness, the Messiah would not have needed to come down here. We should try but we should be honest about our failure.
Only this man’s family members (and the usual suspects in the political world) are sad to see him gone. Honest people should admit what’s true or simply be quiet.
But nobody should lie about it. Sadly, though, many will.
platypus on May 31, 2009 at 9:36 PM
Political psychopaths have existed long before O’Reilly and Hannity — on both sides of the aisle. After all, I’m pretty sure O’Reilly wasn’t to blame for JFK’s assassination.
Come back to me when your president didn’t spend years associating with domestic terrorists.
amerpundit on May 31, 2009 at 9:36 PM
This will do nothing but harm to the Pro-life movement, the right of protest, and Second Amendment protection.
Question: How much hypocrisy are we about to see on the Death penalty in this case?
michaelo on May 31, 2009 at 9:36 PM
You got to wonder what kind of sins late term abortionists pray to be forgiven for when they are at church.
Buddahpundit on May 31, 2009 at 9:36 PM
money2 on May 31, 2009 at 9:27 PM
Weren’t you banned as nice343?
This muder solved nothing. All it did was to give the Left more ammunition and took away a family’s patriarch. God will judge Dr. Tiller, as he will all of us one day. But this incident must not stop us from speaking up for the rights of those who can not yet speak. And AP, God’s grace is available to all those who humbly and truthfully seek him.
kingsjester on May 31, 2009 at 9:36 PM
ambuldog on May 31, 2009 at 9:37 PM
it is hypocrisy like this by the left that has me thinking a split is in the best interest of both sides….
Billy Ayers “political violence” has a not too small bodycount but it is glossed over with a wink, “I uh thought he uh has been er rehabilitated”….after Chicago Jesus denied knowing him well at all….
the domestic terrs of all stripes need punished but the leftoids gloss theirs over as “having fought too hard for a just cause”….
um “no”
sven10077 on May 31, 2009 at 9:37 PM
This isn’t even making me mad because it is so boilerplate and moronic.
Bye mosquito
blatantblue on May 31, 2009 at 9:37 PM
Now, for an inflammatory question: will the leftists, who move heaven and earth to ensure that serial murderers and rapists don’t have to spend a day in prison, bring the same zeal to defence of Tiller’s killer? If the death penalty is sought, will they oppose it on the grounds that the death penalty is unjust? Or will it be clear that they believe the only crimes worth punishing by death are being conceived to a woman who does not want you and executing baby-killers?
Roxeanne de Luca on May 31, 2009 at 9:37 PM
What difference, the fee? Complexity of the procedure? Tools used? Pain felt by relatively undeveloped (but still aware) brains vs far more developed ones?
splink on May 31, 2009 at 9:37 PM
He’s dead, give it a rest.
AprilOrit on May 31, 2009 at 9:37 PM
this will be made a Federal case…watch.
sven10077 on May 31, 2009 at 9:38 PM
Seriously, that’s the best you got?
ladyingray on May 31, 2009 at 9:38 PM
Money2 is responsible for the Unibomber.
michaelo on May 31, 2009 at 9:38 PM
It’s my guess that most of the anti-abortion people that call abortion outright “murder” don’t really believe what they say, otherwise they’d revolt, no?
toliver on May 31, 2009 at 9:30 PM
To those who think this murder was a good thing because maybe fewer innocent babies will be murdered, I ask:
Do you think that the first century Christians murdered Roman & Jewish persecutors so that fewer innocent Christians would be murdered?
jgapinoy on May 31, 2009 at 9:38 PM
Yes I do.
Grow Fins on May 31, 2009 at 9:39 PM
Wow, such a thinker…
ladyingray on May 31, 2009 at 9:39 PM
The left demonized bankers. Bankers have committed suicide in recent months. The left is responsible for the deaths of bankers. Right?
amerpundit on May 31, 2009 at 9:39 PM
And how about deleting 30-40 comments in this thread alone? None of them were particulary crazy.
When people have no outlet in mainstream righty blogs, they turn to extremes – which apparently doesn’t worry AP and his ilk, who only care about having an unstained image and comments that can’t be used by others to “smear” him.
Censorship has to have a guideline, not to be prone to hysteria and paranoia triggered by sudden events. That’s where LGF failed, and this is the direction AP goes as well.
Aristotle on May 31, 2009 at 9:40 PM
You are misguided. The central nervous system of a fetus is actually in hyper drive as early as 3months. The pain felt by a very young fetus is much more severe that in a late term fetus.
katy on May 31, 2009 at 9:40 PM
You’ve hit the nail on the head here, the evisceration of a fully viable human infant is just a distraction, the real problem are the talk show hosts.
NoDonkey on May 31, 2009 at 9:40 PM
Four abortion doctors murdered in 16 years? and a lone wolf, not a group, committing this murder does not seem like something that rises to a case of domestic terrorism with the government reportedly to declare tomorrow a “national day of commitment” and who knows what else. The DC snipers killed a dozen and most called it murder, not terrorism, and no “national day of commitment”. LA Hispanic gangs have killed so many and yet it is called murder, not terrorism, and no “national day of commitment”. As likely as not they have killed again today.
semloh on May 31, 2009 at 9:40 PM
I also admired his courage to use punctuation and capital letters.
amerpundit on May 31, 2009 at 9:40 PM
I’m happy to report that the first person banned in this thread is a lefty. Say farewell to money2.
Allahpundit on May 31, 2009 at 9:40 PM
Okay, fine, you’re not condoning it. What exactly do you mean by “doing his job”? Because you’ve clearly said in another post that the women who seek these abortions are “solely to blame”.
Puddleglum on May 31, 2009 at 9:41 PM
That should just about do it! AP?
conservnut on May 31, 2009 at 9:41 PM
As someone on ACE’s site said…
SouthernGent on May 31, 2009 at 9:41 PM
Let’s say I hate taxes. Every time Arnie appears, I’m out with my sign stating, I hate taxes. He keeps raising taxes. I become so enraged, I get a gun and shoot Arnie. Does that make me a domestic terrorist? I don’t think so. I have problems labeling this guy a domestic terrorist. It’s too knee jerk.
Blake on May 31, 2009 at 9:41 PM
Obama is ‘outraged’ at the death of Tiller but had no problem with the deaths of the babies at the hands of Tiller. More like ‘outraged’ at the thousands of dollars that Tiller can no longer contribute to the Obama campaign.
lavell12 on May 31, 2009 at 9:41 PM
I’m different from nice343. But I admired his courage to speak the truth
money2 on May 31, 2009 at 9:39 PM
Bullshiite of the highest order, you are one in the same. Effin lying liberal puke.
Bishop on May 31, 2009 at 9:41 PM
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