George Tiller murdered
posted at 8:59 pm on May 31, 2009 by Allahpundit
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My two thoughts on this: (1) Murder is bad and wrong; (2) blogs will be even more insufferable than usual this week. The cops haven’t confirmed yet that the shooting was political but given Tiller’s infamy for performing late-term abortions plus the fact that he was shot once before, there’s little doubt what the motive was. I wish I could say there are no Bill Ayers types on our side, but I can’t; I wish I could say there are no right-wing nutroots degenerates online cheering them on, but I can’t say that either. As for those who condemn the murder while merrily hoping that he’s burning in hell, let a poor confused atheist ask you this: Isn’t the proper Christian response to any death to pray that God will have mercy on a flawed, fallible sinner, who’s now at last seen the error of his ways? Tiller might have changed his mind about abortion and repented in years to come but his killer’s deprived him of the chance. No prayers that God will take that into consideration?
I’m going to give you guys the benefit of the doubt and leave comments open, but if I see anything in the vein of what LGF has noted, the thread will be shut and offenders summarily banned. If you can’t resist pissing on a man’s grave, doubtless there are other blogs that will accommodate you. Don’t let me down.
Update (Ed): The murder of George Tiller at his church is a heinous crime, without any sense or justice. Regardless of how one feels about George Tiller’s profession, his murderer is nothing more than a domestic terrorist — someone attempting to impose by force a policy that one cannot get in place through democratic means. Tiller’s killer is no better than William Ayers, Kathleen Soliah, and Eric Rudolph, people who attempted to use violence for their extremist ends. Those who value life know that murder is the antithesis of the pro-life movement.
Update: The suspect’s name is Scott Roeder. Circumstantial evidence suggests that the motive was indeed political.
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ut oh. here we go.
ladyingray on May 31, 2009 at 9:02 PM
Disgusting.
Dr. Manhattan on May 31, 2009 at 9:02 PM
I’d like to get a clarification on the phrase “our side”, please. That’s one helluva brush you got there.
LastRick on May 31, 2009 at 9:03 PM
No justification for this whatsoever. Those cheering this on are ghoulish.
JammieWearingFool on May 31, 2009 at 9:03 PM
Murder is murder and here’s to hoping the shooter is caught and either locked up forever or given his own dirt nap.
Bishop on May 31, 2009 at 9:03 PM
That was my very first thought!
…it’s a reminder that we should not wait for another day to get things right in our lives.
katy on May 31, 2009 at 9:04 PM
Not all Christians agree on the benefits of prayer after death…I’m a Baptist, and while I do think honest confession of sin on the deathbed works with God as only He knows a person’s heart, I don’t think I can pray someone into heaven if they don’t belong to God before they get there.
I can only pray that he made his peace with God before he died.
ladyingray on May 31, 2009 at 9:05 PM
Very depressing. Very, very depressing.
djl130 on May 31, 2009 at 9:05 PM
I don’t cheer this on at all, but by “no better than Ayers” you must mean the GOP should push the killer or force behind the killers to adviser to the President and ghostwriter for saidsame right??
//s
sven10077 on May 31, 2009 at 9:05 PM
The stats on pro-lifers were getting too high, something like this had to happen lest they climb any higher.
pifactorial on May 31, 2009 at 9:06 PM
+1
My thoughts exactly.
Slublog on May 31, 2009 at 9:06 PM
His profession? Let’s not sanitize what he does and act like it’s any John Doe going off to his white collar job.
brogers on May 31, 2009 at 9:06 PM
No denying it…this was murder…now is not the time to play politics with this heinous crime. Any rational person (especially conservatives, who believe in the rule of law above all else) would deplore and wish justice to be done.
So, having said that, lets all watch the left start politicizing this now…we all know they will. And when they do, know that they don’t care at all about the victim here. He’s just a very convenient prop for their theatrics.
AUINSC on May 31, 2009 at 9:06 PM
And btw, I go on record saying I do not believe this is the way to handle the abortion issue. Period.
ladyingray on May 31, 2009 at 9:07 PM
What was the shooter thinking?! It discredits your ideology by shooting him. If you’re doing it for religious reasons, it discredits GOD by shooting him in a church!.
Skywise on May 31, 2009 at 9:07 PM
Obviously he’s referring to fellow pro-lifers.
jgapinoy on May 31, 2009 at 9:07 PM
The murder is horrific and to be condemned. It is good they apprehended the apparent killer who will hopefully be charged to the fullest extent of the law.
KittyLowrey on May 31, 2009 at 9:08 PM
Ditto.
There’s absolutely no excuse to take blog comments and cast them as the face of a movement. This was (probably) a politically motivated killing; it’s going to bring the rats out of the woodwork.
It’s not all right when Bill O’Reilly does it. It’s not right when Kos does it. Nor is it all right when Charles Johnson does it.
Rational people, capable of sound political discourse, including myself, deplore this murder. A murder answered by a murder doesn’t bring anyone back, and certainly not when outside the bounds of a lawful society.
We won’t do it. We won’t sink to Kos and O’Reilly’s level. If we should deign to do this, then we have no right to the moral high ground now or ever.
KingGold on May 31, 2009 at 9:08 PM
Does nothing to advance the pro-life cause, that’s for sure.
On the other hand, pro-choice advocates shouldn’t be too upset. To them, it’s just an 883rd month post-partum abortion.
So the pro-life folks should be more upset than the pro-choice folks.
Just sayin’.
misterpeasea on May 31, 2009 at 9:08 PM
Allah & Ed, i agree with you that Dr. Tiller’s murder is well, murder. and that’s not a good thing.
but have you looked at the other blogs? oh my goodness.
and the left wing blogs are accusing every one who perchance even imagined voting for a Republican.
and this is one day after the Virginia Republican party nominated their candidates for Gov., Lt. Gov. & atty General. and the AG candidate is very anti-abortion. they will all get painted with the left wing accusatory theme. oh great.
kelley in virginia on May 31, 2009 at 9:08 PM
As for those who condemn the murder while merrily hoping that he’s burning in hell, let a poor confused atheist ask you this: Isn’t the proper Christian response to any death to pray that God will have mercy on a flawed, fallible sinner, who’s now at last seen the error of his ways?
I would like to add that stirring the pot while demanding a one-track response is sort of odd. There are plenty of non-believers on “our” side who might opine on Tiller’s passing in some sort of non-religious cosmic way that would supposedly get them banned…I guess.
Bishop on May 31, 2009 at 9:08 PM
Of course rick he should have prefaced it with something left you out. Now would you please STFU
CWforFreedom on May 31, 2009 at 9:09 PM
Legal abortion will never disappear until the vast majority of American are convinced that abortion is wrong and that they should take this into account when voting. This heinous murder will not help to bring that about.
packsoldier on May 31, 2009 at 9:09 PM
you mean a 67 year late term abortion is not justified?
I have warned that the leftoids caving in to violence would, sooner or later beget violence here on religious issues that intersect with the political….
weakness begets violence.
sven10077 on May 31, 2009 at 9:09 PM
Yep. In 1995 all Republicans were potential McVeighs, or at least in some way responsible.
ddrintn on May 31, 2009 at 9:09 PM
Apparently, Politico has already shot an email to Sarah asking her for her response. Most of the GOP is pro-life, why drag Sarah alone into this? That’s a rhetorical question.
promachus on May 31, 2009 at 9:09 PM
Indeed.
The great apostle Paul was once a persecutor of the Church who approved of & participated in the murder of Stephen, the first martyr.
If God forgave him, he can forgive Tiller if Tiller sought forgiveness in his last breaths.
jgapinoy on May 31, 2009 at 9:11 PM
Little doubt that will happen. Now had he killed someone that the left hates then I would have some doubts.
CWforFreedom on May 31, 2009 at 9:11 PM
While I do not believe in murder, I doubt that many tears will be shed for this SOB.
GFW on May 31, 2009 at 9:11 PM
The shame is also on the rest of us to not do more to stop abortion in a peaceful manner.
pedestrian on May 31, 2009 at 9:11 PM
I strongly encourage everyone to temper any hostilities and use language which is accurate and fair and devoid of all emotion. We wouldn’t want to give Bill OReilly the excuse he needs to pad his backside with a couple of liberal kudo that he grovels for by demonizing blog posters.
That said, this is tragic mostly because it will be used by the professional Left as an all-purpose moral-equivalence truncheon every time someone raises their voice against radical Islam. You know the type, they immediately shoot back with, What about those wacky fundamentalists who go around killing doctors? In Leftist mathematics, 1 abortion doc killing is equal to several hundred thousand victims of sharia law and jihad, just so you have it straight.
It also helps push through Sotomayor, since she’s, ya know, empathetic in the extreme. The Demagogue in Chief is already out there milking this for all it’s worth.
Western_Civ on May 31, 2009 at 9:11 PM
This event will be a setback for the pro-life movement. Any flaw or nutcase in the conservative movement will be used to create or reinforce moral-equivalency arguements from the Left or to fuel accusations of lawlessness or hypocrisy. This is a setback and was very unwise.
ksm on May 31, 2009 at 9:11 PM
“The wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God” James 1:20
I’ve been praying for his family and loved ones all day. I’ve also asked that God would not allow murder to be the means of justice in the minds of those who claim to be called by His name.
Weight of Glory on May 31, 2009 at 9:11 PM
Prayers for the dead are an invention of the Catholic church, and have no basis in Scripture. Tiller wasted his life as a murderer, and now his own murderer will also have to answer for his abominable act.
If you feel a need to pray for someone, pray for the living fiends who welcomed a baby-murderer into their worship assembly simply for his blood-drenched tithes.
TMK on May 31, 2009 at 9:11 PM
I’m a Hindu. The poor doctor will repent his ways, most likely on the next trip. Karma: what goes around, comes around. Aum.
Dandapani on May 31, 2009 at 9:11 PM
The lefty blogs had ProLife groups tried and convicted before there was any clue as to the motive of this murderer.
CWforFreedom on May 31, 2009 at 9:11 PM
Things like this do not bring more members to the pro-life movement.
blatantblue on May 31, 2009 at 9:12 PM
Once you are dead, there’s no chance for consideration.
That said, I think there is no justification for this crime. I can’t celebrate it because I don’t agree with it, as much as I disagree with his actions while alive.
Vengeance belongs to God and God alone.
therightscoop on May 31, 2009 at 9:12 PM
I agree with Ed. This incident leaves me very confused, on the one hand murder is wrong, on the other, Dr. Tiller committed many many murders (for an extreme profit) before his death. I had hoped that he would have been convicted and be spending the rest of his days in jail. I pray constantly for the souls of all abortionists, and for the unborn, and for the women who choose to murder their own babies, I also pray for the employees of abortionists, and for the brave ones who stand up in front of the murder factories for life. It is time to out law late term abortions. Where ever you stand on the issue of abortion, the late term abortion is the most vile thing of all. It involves killing an infant in the birth canal.. there is nothing more disgusting. I hope that the Tiller killer is brought to justice in the courts and that the jury is wise.
kringeesmom on May 31, 2009 at 9:12 PM
Wrong way to the solution pro-lifers…which I am one so simmer down.
ClassicCon on May 31, 2009 at 9:12 PM
The fact that this was done in his church makes it doubly horrific, can you imagine the feelings of those who were forced to witness this? I won’t be so presumptuous as to even consider what God’s judgment will be on Dr. Tiller or his killer but instead will pray for the families of those directly involve and those in the church.
Cindy Munford on May 31, 2009 at 9:12 PM
We are, slowly but surely.
ddrintn on May 31, 2009 at 9:12 PM
I would assume the offices at DHS will be busy tomorrow re-issuing the last report on right wing extremists.
katy on May 31, 2009 at 9:12 PM
Still doesn’t answer my original question. How is he on “our side”, or even “my side”? Is he a fiscal conservative? Is he a Federalist? What are his thoughts on separation of powers b/w state and national? Does he support third party voting? Is he against same-sex marriage? Does he support a fair tax? And on and on and on. Yet, you take his opinion on one issue (abortions) and say, yep, we’ll take him, put him right over here beside Mark Sanford and Palin so I can treat him as equal.
No, thanks, AP. Put him on your side.
LastRick on May 31, 2009 at 9:12 PM
Yes as we saw in the last election the weak of mind will eat this shit up.
CWforFreedom on May 31, 2009 at 9:13 PM
This is gonna get ugly. The murderer will now be stereotyped as a right wing wacko. And all christians/republicans/conservatives will be thrown into the same stereotype.
For the record, I think abortion is wrong especially the horrific late term abortions, but that NEVER justifies murdering abortionists…
mjk on May 31, 2009 at 9:13 PM
A single death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic.
ninjapirate on May 31, 2009 at 9:13 PM
Being an attractive, outspoken conservative woman puts a target on your back.
jgapinoy on May 31, 2009 at 9:13 PM
Terrorist!
BJ* on May 31, 2009 at 9:13 PM
No. I don’t understand how anyone could perform or have a late term abortion, but that doesn’t make the murder of this man “right”. I’m sorry, but no.
ladyingray on May 31, 2009 at 9:13 PM
67 years old – wife, children and grandchildren.
Sounds like a pretty good life out of the womb.
As ye sow, so shall ye reap.
NoDonkey on May 31, 2009 at 9:13 PM
That’s what I’m saying…
ladyingray on May 31, 2009 at 9:13 PM
Sorry Rick… your recent post was great
CWforFreedom on May 31, 2009 at 9:14 PM
tmk: our church welcomes sinners. isn’t that what churches are all about?
kelley in virginia on May 31, 2009 at 9:14 PM
Say it isn’t so…..and in church….who would of thought baby killers go to church.
I’d like to be that proverbial fly on the wall at his judgement.
I can’t agree with your sentiment on this one because the man wasn’t any better than uncle Adolph and his sick minions, just my opinion.
I will withhold the rest because it’s on HA and I wouldn’t want Mr. Bill to all squishy over it.
larvcom on May 31, 2009 at 9:14 PM
Ed, you exactly summed up how I feel.
Bob's Kid on May 31, 2009 at 9:14 PM
quite…they hope to defang what they see as the deadliest viper….
allow me to be clear, I am aghst the man was shot as it is a strategically dumb move but I refuse to cauterwaul for his passing. He deployed death on a daily workaday basis he should not be shocked it came calling….
Punish the guilty and we must endure the damage the shooter has done the movement….
not that the leftoids ever have to suffer damage to theirs.
sven10077 on May 31, 2009 at 9:14 PM
Thanks for your support, sincerely. Meanwhile, not only am I trying to change AP’s mind, I’ve got this:
Yeah, real productive there.
LastRick on May 31, 2009 at 9:15 PM
There is not excuse for this act and I hope that the perpetrator is captured and appropriately punished for his crimes. We live in a nation of laws and this kind of thing cannot be tolerated.
That said, let us not forget in our rush to keep from being labeled Right Wing Abortionist Killer Apologists (which we will be labeled anyway) that this man made a good living committing the most heinous of crimes; killing fully formed babies. Not making or arguing for policies to allow the killing, but actually hands-on skull-crushing, baby dissecting killing.
He profited from his life of violence and now has died (presumably) because of it. I hope that, by the grace of God, he’s not now burning for his crimes, but I hope that for everyone else too.
29Victor on May 31, 2009 at 9:15 PM
Your prayers are answered in the several stories I’ve heard from those who once served in these vile places but repented & now serve the Lord.
jgapinoy on May 31, 2009 at 9:15 PM
Any bets on how many bannings will take place tonight?
Well, my two cents.
Exactly right AP, there may be hope for your soul yet!
Murder is murder, while I believe what this Dr. did was murder I would have preferred either:
a) He converted and saw the evil of his ways
Or
b) He was finally convicted for his crimes in a court of law.
conservnut on May 31, 2009 at 9:15 PM
Also as a poor confused atheist I find your faux intellectual condescending attitude towards Christians quite disgusting and bigoted. Could you imagine quoting the few atheists who were jumping up and down with joy over the death of Jerry Falwell? I wish this kind of bigotry toward Christians wasn’t so accepted in society. It makes all atheists look bad.
Capitalist Infidel on May 31, 2009 at 9:16 PM
I’m glad you guys decided to leave a thread on this up, and open for comments. There have been nasty…to say the least…comments left here on many a thread on different issues of the moment. And even with the caveat listed above, some slime will probably get on.
Suffice to say, many left-wing blogs and network sites are claiming that this is what pro-lifers do, either they murder abortion doctors, or cheer when they are murdered. It’s much like when a gay riot erupts, that all gays do that, or cheer it.
That being said, I’m as pro-life as any pro-lifer. But it is absolutely disgusting when an abortion clinic is bombed, or someone is murdered…in the name of “life”.
This type of “justice” needs to be condemned by all, no matter your religion, or position on abortion. Cold blooded murder is not justified. The person who fired that shot is no better than Dr. Tiller when it comes to valuing human life.
I honestly pray for Dr. Tiller. And his family. As much as I do not like his work, he was only doing his job. Sure, he chose to…and continued to even after a myriad of death threats, and having been previously shot.
Let’s not see any more senseless murder.
JetBoy on May 31, 2009 at 9:16 PM
Yup.
jgapinoy on May 31, 2009 at 9:17 PM
It’s going to give ammo to the lefties on multiple fronts:
1) Pro lifers are crazy
2) Jihadists are only a relative threat. Remember how they always throw out the “abortion clinic bombers and shooters” as a way to describe how terrorism isn’t merely a “Muslim thing.”
3) More reason to ban all weapons.
4) More reason to monitor conservatives.
AWESOME.
blatantblue on May 31, 2009 at 9:17 PM
This may not be his first arrest.
From 1997:
July 7, Kansas: Scott Roeder is sentenced to sixteen months in state prison for parole violations following a 1996 conviction for having bomb components in his car trunk. Roeder, a sovereign citizen and tax protester, violated his parole by not filing tax returns or providing his social security number to his employer.
SnarkVader on May 31, 2009 at 9:17 PM
It’s this kind of stuff that will give the Obama Admin. all the “crisis” they needs to clamp down harder somehow on our liberties.
…Gun rights come to mind in….
Just watch…
katy on May 31, 2009 at 9:18 PM
Killing one man may save a few children, but it’s our laws that need to be changed.
therightscoop on May 31, 2009 at 9:18 PM
Does anyone know how many babies Tiller has murdered and how much money he amassed in doing so? Who asks for justice for these babies?
maryo on May 31, 2009 at 9:18 PM
Did any of you see that dress that Michelle Obama was wearing on ‘Date Night’………..?
Seven Percent Solution on May 31, 2009 at 9:18 PM
Regardless of what your church welcomes, God welcomes sinners who repent, that is people who are ashamed of sinning and who are born anew, not shameless killers who live in the same abominations of yesterday.
TMK on May 31, 2009 at 9:18 PM
“As much as I do not like his work, he was only doing his job.”
So was Himmler.
But who are we to judge?
NoDonkey on May 31, 2009 at 9:19 PM
He was murdered and murder is wrong. Tiller committed his share. Wrong what he did to countless thousands of late term, viable babies, wrong what was done to him.
FireBlogger on May 31, 2009 at 9:19 PM
Justice is in the hands of God.
therightscoop on May 31, 2009 at 9:19 PM
Dr. Tiller was murdered by someone, probably someone with a political agenda. The persons on either end of the political spectrum who feel that the end justifies the means are equally guilty of facilitating this outrage. I did not agree with Dr. Tiller’s views, but he had every right to engage in a practice which is legal. Those who disagree with the law need to lobby for the legislature to change the law, not take the law into their own hands.
My prayers go out to Dr. Tiller’s family and the members of his church family. May God grant them comfort and mercy at this time of grief.
Orson Buggeigh on May 31, 2009 at 9:19 PM
Don’t be so quick to blame Dr. Tiller…the mothers are the ones who went to see him, not the other way around.
JetBoy on May 31, 2009 at 9:20 PM
Plenty of people know.
We all know.
But killing the guy doesn’t help the pro life movement.
It isolates the movement.
It gives ammunition for the pro-lifers.
To the anti-gun crowd as well.
blatantblue on May 31, 2009 at 9:20 PM
Amen.
TMK on May 31, 2009 at 9:20 PM
You’re wise beyond your years. This will be used by the left to clamp down on those of us who cling to our guns and our God.
ladyingray on May 31, 2009 at 9:20 PM
Unfortunately, I think we knew this would happen at some point. Some people are just nuts and have no ability to function in the real world.
That man betrayed everything he professed to believe in. Don’t anyone go hurting people like this anymore. Go get some help…there are professionals out there.
tomas on May 31, 2009 at 9:20 PM
This thread is a water shed for HA…let’s see who the sociopaths are now…Anybody who applauds this is a ghoulish fool. Some have already outed themselves. Thank you.
AUINSC on May 31, 2009 at 9:21 PM
It is clearly the fault of abortion advocates. If pro-choice advocates was more tolerant of pro-life views and stopped pushing their extremist views on abortions then this tragedy would never have happened. Punishing the shooter will just create more pro-lifers.
AaronGuzman on May 31, 2009 at 9:21 PM
How does killing an abortion doctor help the pro-life movement on a whole?
Yea — so one doc is gone.
There are plenty of others open for business.
blatantblue on May 31, 2009 at 9:21 PM
This is a tragedy. No one wins here.
AbaddonsReign on May 31, 2009 at 9:21 PM
To those who think this murder was a good thing because maybe fewer innocent babies will be murdered, I ask:
Do you think the first century Christians murdered Roman & Jewish persecutors so that fewer innocent Christians would be murdered?
jgapinoy on May 31, 2009 at 9:21 PM
This is certianly not the way to win public opinion. I fully expect the left to portray this murderer as the average prolifer. This could even embolden the position that homeland security has recently stated against right-wing types and that we have so agressively condemned.
I’m not too shocked he was murdered given his high profile and the previous efforts on his life. I do find it odd that a murderer who would kill over this issue would chose to do it in a church.
MichiganMatt on May 31, 2009 at 9:21 PM
fixed for you
sven10077 on May 31, 2009 at 9:22 PM
Seems to me that Dr. Tiller’s patients never became mothers, unless Dr. Tiller made a boo-boo.
You feel the same sympathy for drug dealers?
NoDonkey on May 31, 2009 at 9:22 PM
This murder is not an assassination because Mr. Tiller was not a public official.
atheling on May 31, 2009 at 9:22 PM
Without taking any pleasure in it mind you, I keep coming back to the fact that no matter what physical suffering he felt after he was shot and before he died, the doctor felt it as a fully cognizant adult. Unless it was a clean headshot, in which case his suffering was likely brief, he understood what was happening. That can help, if only a little. Unless he was rendered unconscious instantly, he knew what was happening, and no doubt knew why.
Whatever he may have felt, though, it was nothing but a light, brief affliction compared with the unspeakable physical suffering the doctor inflicted on (since you brought him up, AP) God only knows how many babies who suffered in his hands…those who had no concept what was happening…those who had only terror, silent screams, tears and agony, all of which went unseen and unnoticed by any human being. Agonies none of us here can even IMAGINE, they felt before they died.
The shooter broke the law. Let the law handle him. I have zero sympathy for nor empathy with him. But I find I have none for the late doctor, either. The targets of his “procedures” have taken it all and I have none left to give.
splink on May 31, 2009 at 9:23 PM
My condolences and prayers are with Dr. Tiller’s family in their grief.
Murder is murder, no matter what the murderer thinks the victim has done.
kimsch on May 31, 2009 at 9:23 PM
Terrible. Murder is not the way. This was not a Christian act, and virtually all Christians will repudiate it categorically.
J.E. Dyer on May 31, 2009 at 9:23 PM
You can bet your a$$ they will.
Wait for the meme to start.
Matt Lauer’s going to do a special.
Katie Couric’s going to interview someone who got beat up 10 years ago by some random pro-lifer.
Anderson Cooper is going to talk about teabagging
And Larry King is going to..
what does Larry King do?
blatantblue on May 31, 2009 at 9:23 PM
I think you mean new testament.
therightscoop on May 31, 2009 at 9:24 PM
Yeah, if someone sends their child to my door and asks me to end his life, that doesn’t mean I’m going to do it. You’re responsible for your actions — regardless of whether someone asked you to carry them ut.
amerpundit on May 31, 2009 at 9:24 PM
I bet they’re starting to think that perhaps giving botox injections is an easier way to make a living.
NoDonkey on May 31, 2009 at 9:24 PM
Oh, my…here we go. Allah and Ed are on their high horses, so I’ll be careful with my comment.
I’m not jumping with joy, but I won’t lose a wink of sleep over this
man’smurderer’s death.SouthernGent on May 31, 2009 at 9:24 PM
Wait….you mean the suspect isn’t being labelled a ‘freedom fighter’ for the unborn or a modern day minuteman for children?
I suppose those titles are reserved for people who kill innocent people and US soldiers – not the guy who kills a child murdering monster.
Mr Purple on May 31, 2009 at 9:24 PM
1) we don’t live in a theocracy
2) you left out the trial before the death sentence
3) we’re not in the Old Testament
4) see my comment at 9:21PM
jgapinoy on May 31, 2009 at 9:24 PM
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