Obama adviser: North Korea not an imminent threat to the US

posted at 9:27 am on May 28, 2009 by Ed Morrissey

The strategy on North Korea at the White House continues to shift in an odd direction.  First, Barack Obama called North Korea a “regional threat” after its missile launch in April, and this week declared the nation a threat to global peace after its nuclear test.  Now Obama’s national security adviser James Jones say’s they’re not an imminent threat at all, despite Kim Jong-Il’s rejection of the 56-year truce — and the 25,000 American soldiers on the other side of the DMZ:

President Obama’s national security adviser on Wednesday said that North Korea’s recent nuclear detonation and subsequent missile tests are not “an imminent threat” to the safety and security of the United States.

Retired Marine Corps Gen. James Jones, in his first speech on the administration’s approach to national security, said that the “imminent threat” posed by North Korea is that of the proliferation of nuclear technologies to other countries and terrorist organizations.

North Korea still has “a long way” to “weaponize” and work on the delivery of its nuclear missiles before they pose a threat to U.S. security, Jones said in a discussion hosted by the Atlantic Council.

“Nothing that the North Koreans did surprised us,” Jones said. “We knew that they were going to do this, they said so, so no reason not to believe them.”

Pardon me, but I’d say that any nation that threatened the lives of 25,000 American soldiers is by definition an imminent threat to the United States.  In fact, that’s exactly the reason we have stationed those troops on the DMZ.  We have them set up as a tripwire to keep Kim from overrunning the DMZ and capturing Seoul by making it clear that we consider any such threat as aimed at the US as well as South Korea.

Even beyond that, Kim’s ICBM capabilities have grown over the last few years, as his latest launch demonstrated.  His Taepodong missiles have a theoretical range that takes them into the continental US, and a practical range that includes Hawaii and Alaska.  Last time I checked, those both were part of the US, not to mention the various territories we still control in the Pacific west of Hawaii.  Maybe Kim hasn’t figured a way to attach a nuke to one — the nuclear test this week makes that a questionable assumption, as North Korea would probably only be testing warhead nukes anyway — but even a conventional warhead would be an “imminent threat” if it hit Honolulu.

Has the Obama administration settled on a strategy of apathy?  Does he think ignoring Kim will make him go away?  I have to admit that no one has tried that strategy with North Korea, perhaps because no one has been crazy enough to think it will work.  At what point will they stop playing golf and start considering Kim an imminent threat?  When he plants his flag in Seoul?

At least that explains the four-hour round of golf as a response to the nuclear test.

Update: Gaurav in the comments makes a good point:

Main threat from NK is proliferation to failed or rogue states and from there to Jihadi orgs.

Yes, and that became imminent with the first successful nuclear test.


Related Posts:

Breaking on Hot Air

Blowback

Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.

Trackbacks/Pings

Trackback URL

Comments

Comment pages: 1 2

Clyde5445 on May 28, 2009 at 10:44 AM

Agreed…intelligence wise, except for satellite coverage, NK is a black hole. We don’t have a good idea of exactly where they are with their weapons programs or military preparedness. I still believe writing off their conventional forces as inept is a mistake.

I think they’ve paved the way toward a policy of very provocative acts of aggression against SK in the near future. Predicting what and when is the trick. Based on the actions of Obama and his crack National Security team, I’m sure they will be the last to know.

AUINSC on May 28, 2009 at 10:49 AM

Totally agree about the US being challenged on other fronts. I almost feel sorry for the al-Qaeda, because they’ll become a back-burner issue once Russia and China start filling their pockets. My guess is that the Chinese Navy’s first job would be to escort an invasion force to Africa in order to supply their ravenous economy.

hawksruleva on May 28, 2009 at 10:22 AM

first job “would be”?

With the N.Korean “distraction” China is already established in Africa and well at the plundering, just as the Russians are set up in Iran with cleaner hands, strictly sales and instruction and a free rein for Ahmadinejad and Ali Khamenei.

maverick muse on May 28, 2009 at 10:50 AM

So the North Koreas PROMISE war and the one does nothing????

If the North Koreans do attack, it will be far too late to move troops into place to support the few that are there now.

sonofdy on May 28, 2009 at 10:55 AM

I still believe writing off their conventional forces as inept is a mistake.

A VERY big mistake.

sonofdy on May 28, 2009 at 10:56 AM

So, um, Ed — why did you poo-poo the Taepodong-2 launch a few weeks ago?

The failure undermines yet again the inability of North Korea to mount a legitimate threat against the US…

and

The real threat from North Korea doesn’t come directly to the US.

You were had by the arms control wonks who downplayed the NK threat as a way to downplay the need for missile defense.

Cuffy Meigs on May 28, 2009 at 10:59 AM

At a glance, that pic kinda looks like a fist bump is being exchanged…

ladyingray on May 28, 2009 at 10:59 AM

Obama called his secretary of defense, Bill Gates, and Gates said he doesn’t care about North Korea unless they pirate his software.

Daggett on May 28, 2009 at 11:01 AM

On the conventional arms front, the mountians of north korea negate many of the advantages technology gives the US Army. The North has dug tunnels all over the area UNDER the mine fields. They have trained for 56 YEARS for this one mission. We would win but its not as easy as some would think. And that doesn’t even count the problems if chinesse got involved.

If there is to be a war, we need to start moving troops there YESTERDAY. Because the reserves that will have to be called up need time to do so.

sonofdy on May 28, 2009 at 11:01 AM

Lesson to Iran: Full speed ahead!

elduende on May 28, 2009 at 11:12 AM

Has the Obama administration settled on a strategy of apathy?

North Korea is only a regional threat.

North Korea has a long way to go to weaponize nuclear missles.

Maybe Obama is trying the Baghdad Bob strategy:

There are no American infidels in Baghdad. Never!

We have them surrounded in their tanks!

They are not in Baghdad. They are not in control of any airport. I tell you this. It is all a lie. They lie. It is a hollywood movie. You do not believe them!

bitsy on May 28, 2009 at 11:21 AM

Right, but they are an imminent threat to everyone else in the area. Make wherever they launched/developed that missile a parking lot I say.

tx2654 on May 28, 2009 at 11:30 AM

Don’t forget Okinawa.

And, you know, the nation that we made sign a constitution that said “no military” in exchange for us protecting them.

Tiny little things.

amkun on May 28, 2009 at 11:33 AM

Heh.

THE South Korean and US militaries have raised their level of alert on North Korea, a day after the communist North threatened a military clash.

The militaries, which include 25,000 US troops based in South Korea, raised the alert from Level 3 to Level 2, the Defence Ministry of South Korea said.

Buy Danish on May 28, 2009 at 11:33 AM

Are you saying we are AT WAR with North Korea since yesterday and nobody told us?
faraway on May 28, 2009 at 10:03 AM

In a word, Yes. Should North Korea overrun South Korea and our troops stationed there, Obama could dismiss it as a Regional affair. However, Obama will want to sit down with Dear Leader Kim, with no preconditions, and resolve this through a friendly talk. Or else, Obama could just ignore the situation and vote ‘Present’.

When the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor in 1941, we could have tried to resolve it through talks or just have pretended that it didn’t happen. That sure would have confused the hell out of the Japanese.

Uniblogger on May 28, 2009 at 11:34 AM

I don’t think the Chinese will allow the North Koreans to invade the south until they are ready to invade Taiwan. Once that Beijing has decided to “liberate” Taiwan, the Norks will launch a major attack on the south followed by a Chinese invasion of Taiwan.

simkeith on May 28, 2009 at 11:37 AM

At what point will they stop playing golf and start considering Kim an imminent threat?

Not until Obama has installed his domestic agenda will he stop talking down foreign threats. Until then, foreign threats are just a distraction.

petefrt on May 28, 2009 at 11:38 AM

Maybe Obama is trying the Baghdad Bob strategy:

bitsy on May 28, 2009 at 11:21 AM

Baghdad Bambi.

petefrt on May 28, 2009 at 11:40 AM

The Precedent wants to take the MSM’s eyes of of NORK so that they will focus on his SCOTUS nominiation to further distract from his cramming government run health-rationing down our throats.

ladyingray on May 28, 2009 at 11:41 AM

What a team we’ve got up in DC looking after worldly affairs. As if this weren’t pathetic enough, guess what Obama’s Assistant Secretary of State to African Affairs had to say about Somalia…”tremendous progress made to date “by the TFG” in restoring a semblance of normalcy and peace in Somalia”!

WTF?Are we even on the same planet? They’ve got about a million refugees over there now, mostly women and children. That’s progress?

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gLHhUZEJe35cbas5hkDaCp2bgo1g

scalleywag on May 28, 2009 at 11:45 AM

That sure would have confused the hell out of the Japanese.

Uniblogger on May 28, 2009 at 11:34 AM

Not to mention the fact that the Japanese would slap their foreheads at the waste of perfectly good Kamikaze fighters.

“We let them commit suicide and those dopes didn’t even fight back? Dang.”

Daggett on May 28, 2009 at 11:52 AM

Yeah…they’re no threat… I mean… they’re on the other side of the world and nowhere near US…. Let the other countries worry about that part of the world and we’ll snuggle up to Venezuela so they won’t get mad… and the REAL concern is improving Obama’s bow so he can get low enough to kiss more SAss

CynicalOptimist on May 28, 2009 at 11:52 AM

They’ve got about a million refugees over there now, mostly women and children. That’s progress?

scalleywag on May 28, 2009 at 11:45 AM

Given the behavior of the average UN “peacekeeper”, that does sound like progress. For them.

MarkTheGreat on May 28, 2009 at 11:56 AM

Well a world war got FDR out of the problems with his economic recovery.

jukin on May 28, 2009 at 12:01 PM

jukin on May 28, 2009 at 12:01 PM

True…but FDR won his war.

AUINSC on May 28, 2009 at 12:06 PM

jon1979 on May 28, 2009 at 10:19 AM

The Cuban missile crisis of ’62 was diffused by Kennedy as it was defused when JFK removed existing US missile sites in Turkey as Khrushchev already demanded. Great Democrat leadership. Then with the Soviet iron curtain Berlin Wall construction and execution of attempted escapees, again JFK diffused the situation with his “I am a doughnut” Ich bin ein Berliner speech, and subsequent decision to involve the US where the French were leaving Indochina, defusing speculation that he was an imbecile by dragging the US into Vietnam initially as observers for peace. On the heels of Korea, the democrat war machine propagandized the “domino effect” to garner support for planting American advisers in Vietnam and accommodate the S.Vietnamese government.

As coincidence goes, LBJ ran as the “peace dove” candidate against Goldwater, the “war hawk” GOP. Thank LBJ for the ugly draft, playing sadistic games with our troops, and the incessant bombings of the entire region; Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam.

Thanks to Nixon’s campaign with the “secret solution” to end the war with honor, Kissinger (the secret weapon vs. America) negotiated our withdrawal without even an armistice with the Viet Cong. THAT’S what progressive “moderates” do after vainly bleeding America’s youth in a conscripted military.

The American experience with Imperial Japan in WWII required nuclear bombings to bring about their unconditional surrender to END war with them. Following our occupation during which time the USA rebuilt Japan, we have in them a stable alliance.

During China’s revolution, America failed to communicate effectively with Chiang Kai-shek, our ally against Japan in WWII, who unified China under communism along with Russia but following WWII “after the Japanese surrender in 1945, attempted to eradicate the Chinese Communists but ultimately failed, forcing the Nationalist government to retreat to Taiwan” (Wikipedia). America certainly had enough immigrant citizens from China who could have served diplomatically to at least keep the nation educated and informed. Wilson, FDR, Trumann, Eisenhower (pre-war Democrat turned post-war progressive Republican candidate), Kennedy and LBJ failed to utilize our own naturalized resources. Nixon was simply Kissinger’s puppet, and Kissinger made Red China A-OK and began the US descent into the black hole of debt to them.

Contrast our experience in Japan with that in Korea, Communist China’s surrogate; the USA failed to nuke an end to the Communist perpetual war with America. China never declared military war on the USA, and we failed to declare war on N.Korea. Thus, feigning “compassion” America wasted patriot blood in N.Korea where our presidents failed to permit our military to conquer the Communists with our nuclear means in order to establish a basis for eventual Korean compatibility with liberty as a united nation capable of reciprocating respect for the USA and for the world.

As generations moved past our Vietnamese experience, Democrats make the worst ever war time presidents.

Whatever took us into Iraq, Bush established a means for our nations to peacefully communicate and even have alliance. Out of spite, Obama will caste the baby out with all the water there.

Today, troops mean nothing to Obama now elected, and only represented numbers during his campaign. World peace is not Obama’s agenda, only his rhetoric as he destabilizes everything in order to play deity in the world’s re-creation in Obama’s image. Lucifer.

maverick muse on May 28, 2009 at 12:06 PM

heh

Obama called his secretary of defense, Bill Gates, and Gates said he doesn’t care about North Korea unless they pirate his software.

Daggett on May 28, 2009 at 11:01 AM

Obviously, Obama does not speak with Bob Gates. If he actually had conversations with him, he wouldn’t be slipping twice unless on purpose to demote Gates’ role in the cabinet as Obama’s mouthpiece, but not adviser to this president.

maverick muse on May 28, 2009 at 12:13 PM

True…but FDR won his war.

AUINSC on May 28, 2009 at 12:06 PM

No qualms about it; the military war machine benefited DEMOCRATS under FDR who was all for ramping it up full throttle, willing to treat Pearl Harbor like a tire “deserving”* to blow out and risk national security. Talk about a lousy socialist potus, micromanaging and not communicating effectively, FDR.

The 20th Century world wars were paid for through bonds. Thanks to Obama’s breaking contractual law as Chief Executive, bonds mean squat in America. And the dollar means less than squat.

*Today’s abused context, “we deserve Obama” even though WE voted against his platform.

maverick muse on May 28, 2009 at 12:24 PM

Don’t worry those that voted for Obama or not at all because McCain was a Rino, we’ll get a Reagan after an American City or Ally get’s nuked.

- The Cat

MirCat on May 28, 2009 at 12:24 PM

amr on May 28, 2009 at 10:35 AM

My son is stationed in S Korea also.

ladyingray on May 28, 2009 at 12:42 PM

Even Kennedy had the sense to form a blockade to prevent missiles from getting through. Kim has as much as announced he’s shipping nuclear “stuff” by telling everyone “hands off my ships.” What’s Obama’s response to that?

Anyone?

Anyone?

Daggett on May 28, 2009 at 12:46 PM

maverick muse on May 28, 2009 at 12:24 PM

I agree…that wasn’t intended as any kind of endorsement of FDR, BTW. Just a comment on how much contempt I have for Obama’s policies…if any man could get the US into a war and lose it promptly, Obama would be the one. Assuming he just doesn’t surrender outright.

AUINSC on May 28, 2009 at 12:50 PM

My son is stationed in S Korea also.

ladyingray on May 28, 2009 at 12:42 PM

It may be a little dangerous, but S. Korea has some of the hottest babes on the planet.
(AllahP would disagree, as there are very few plump blondes)

You’re son will be ok. Better than ok most likely :-)

DarkCurrent on May 28, 2009 at 1:01 PM

I disagree that the biggest threat is NK sells off nukes to terrorists. Don’t get me wrong it’s a possibility, but the NorKs don’t need ICBMs to reach South Korea or Japan. The NorKs have a different and specific target in mind – us. You don’t go to the great expense of building giant missiles only to sell of the nuclear components to some smelly taliban creep. Unless it’s Team America and Kim Jong-Il is an alien cockroach. They’re aiming for us and working hard to do so soon. Kim Jong-Il is on his last leg. What better way for a power mad midget to prove his greatness than to vaporize a major US city?

chicagojedi on May 28, 2009 at 1:07 PM

It may be a little dangerous, but S. Korea has some of the hottest babes on the planet.

DarkCurrent on May 28, 2009 at 1:01 PM

All of the hottest babes are Asian. And most haven’t been corrupted by femenazis yet.

Daggett on May 28, 2009 at 1:08 PM

What better way for a power mad midget to prove his greatness than to vaporize a major US city?

chicagojedi on May 28, 2009 at 1:07 PM

Maybe. I still think he just wants to sell them to whomever wants them (terrorists). Like it or not, he has to feed his military sometimes.

Daggett on May 28, 2009 at 1:10 PM

All of the hottest babes are Asian. And most haven’t been corrupted by femenazis yet.

Daggett on May 28, 2009 at 1:08 PM

And within Asia, it’s Korea. Trust me.

DarkCurrent on May 28, 2009 at 1:15 PM

The strategy on North Korea at the White House continues to shift in an odd direction.

I dont see a shift from what you posted.

First, Barack Obama called North Korea a “regional threat” after its missile launch in April, and this week declared the nation a threat to global peace after its nuclear test. Now Obama’s national security adviser James Jones say’s they’re not an imminent threat at all, despite Kim Jong-Il’s rejection of the 56-year truce — and the 25,000 American soldiers on the other side of the DMZ:

President Obama’s national security adviser on Wednesday said that North Korea’s recent nuclear detonation and subsequent missile tests are not “an imminent threat” to the safety and security of the United States.

There’s nothing inconsistent here.

1) They are a regional threat b/c their missile capability only stretches to the region

2) They are a threat to global peace because inflaming Japan or China or invading South Korea would cause global ramifications. Also there is the possibility of proliferation.

3) They are not an imminent threat to the US. Their missiles can not reach the US. Their nukes are not in the hands of terrorists. As much as it’s in the Right’s interest to make it seem like we’re on the edge of blowing up at any given moment, it’s simply not the case.

Anyway, Bush sure did a good job of keeping WMDs away from the “Axis of Evil”, didnt he?

orange on May 28, 2009 at 1:33 PM

3) They are not an imminent threat to the US. Their missiles can not reach the US. Their nukes are not in the hands of terrorists. As much as it’s in the Right’s interest to make it seem like we’re on the edge of blowing up at any given moment, it’s simply not the case.

orange on May 28, 2009 at 1:33 PM

How do you come to know this?

DarkCurrent on May 28, 2009 at 1:38 PM

North Korea is like a pile of gas soaked rags. One spark, one miscalculation, one trigger happy individual, can set the whole thing off.

We need to make sure Joe Biden is locked up until this thing passes over.

Star20 on May 28, 2009 at 1:40 PM

Has the Obama administration settled on a strategy of apathy?

No of course not. Unless you would refer to a strongly worded memo as apathy.

Zetterson on May 28, 2009 at 2:12 PM

3) They are not an imminent threat to the US.

Their missiles can not reach the US.

Their nukes are not in the hands of terrorists. As much as it’s in the Right’s interest to make it seem like we’re on the edge of blowing up at any given moment, it’s simply not the case.
orange on May 28, 2009 at 1:33 PM

So Obama, when did you decide to join the conversation?

FYI there dumbass.. Alaska and Hawaii ARE part of the Nation… wether you like it or not and the fact that these two States CAN be reached by Korean missiles may not mean anything to you but then again i don’t think you are smart enough to go beyond the 57 State realm.

Why not learn something before speaking. You might actually look smarter then the average peanut!

upinak on May 28, 2009 at 2:16 PM

upinak on May 28, 2009 at 2:16 PM

I doubt orange will be back to the thread. Its cowardice outweighs its stupidity, which is why it survives at all.

DarkCurrent on May 28, 2009 at 2:24 PM

The thoughts of an Obama supporting jar-head general is as distressing to me as the thoughts of a Hollywood production with John Wayne playing Peewee Herman. How on earth can a MARINE officer become so stupid. It boggles my mind

el rey on May 28, 2009 at 2:33 PM

If the U.S. is nuked, it will most likely be from a terrorist ship in one of our harbors, or a small warhead brought inland and planted in an American city.

Of course that is unlikely now that America is loved around the world because of our Messiah.

Star20 on May 28, 2009 at 3:03 PM

I apologize if anyone else has brought this up on this thread (I’m a little late today). Is it at all possible that N. Korea and Iran are coordinating their efforts to test Obama, as Biden predicted? What if NK were to lob a missile at South Korea, and at the same time, Iran lobs a missile at Israel? We are already fighting wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, so how capable are we of defending two additional fronts simultaneously? This is the ultimate “This President will be tested within six months of his taking office” gambit. Just wondered if anyone else had thought of this scenario.

College Prof on May 28, 2009 at 3:38 PM

Jones is anti-Israel, a political buttkisser and a real pimp.

Now he’s revealed himself as a moron as well.

TexasJew on May 28, 2009 at 9:32 AM

Is he any relation to Wesley CLark?

Del Dolemonte on May 28, 2009 at 6:01 PM

3) They are not an imminent threat to the US. Their missiles can not reach the US. Their nukes are not in the hands of terrorists. As much as it’s in the Right’s interest to make it seem like we’re on the edge of blowing up at any given moment, it’s simply not the case.

Anyway, Bush sure did a good job of keeping WMDs away from the “Axis of Evil”, didnt he?

orange on May 28, 2009 at 1:33 PM

LOL, pretty good stuff you’re smoking there kid.

Last time I checked, there were plenty of US bases in the Pacific that North Korea’s missiles can hit now.

As for Chimpy, North Korea didn’t get WMDs from him, he got them from Clinton.

But thanks for at least admitting Iraq had them. That wasn’t so hard, was it?

Del Dolemonte on May 28, 2009 at 6:08 PM

OK… Let me make sure I understand Obmammama’s La La Land…

A crazed commie dictator who oppresses the hell out of his people, murders thousands, throws out the 1950′s armistice, lobs missiles over japan, builds nukes and threatens the US navy ISN’t a threat.

———- HOWEVER ——————–

according to DHS: veterans, pro life priests and Tea Party attendees are DANGEROUS TERRORISTS…

We are screwed and stewed……….

bullseye on May 28, 2009 at 10:38 PM

There’s nothing inconsistent here.

1) They are a regional threat b/c their missile capability only stretches to the region

Wrongo Jocko… Take a look at the specs and weight for the gun type uranium weapon dropped on Japan. That will fit in just about any shipping container with room for some cobolt or other nasties… Therefor your first statement is irrelevant, meaningless, wrongheaded and dangerous.

Missiles don’t matter a unicorn’s fart in this case.

3) They are not an imminent threat to the US.

WOW.. now I can sleep soundly. Your statement totally refutes what I heard during a speech by a former SecNav a couple of months ago..

Their missiles can not reach the US.

Uhh, Hey Einstein.. It doesn’t matter if the missiles can reach us or not… Their warheads CAN.. See my note above. BTW – The Chinese did threaten us a while back that their missiles could reach LA. Anyway, it doesn’t matter. Warhead delivery is NOT dependant on missiles.

Their nukes are not in the hands of terrorists.

WOW AGAIN.. HOLY WOW!!… I am impressed that you have that type of insider info on both sides to make that determination… BTW – do you happen to know the size of the smallest nuke we fielded in the 50′s?? Take a look at the Davey Crockett. It was less than 100 Pounds. I could put a dozen of those in my SUV with room for a case of beer or two. So, dontcha think that 60 years later the technology might even be a bit ‘better’…

As much as it’s in the Right’s interest to make it seem like we’re on the edge of blowing up at any given moment, it’s simply not the case.

Oh boy oh boy oh boy… So, I don’t have to worry that our fate is in the hands of a teleprompter flubbing jug eared jackass of a community organizer??? We are at far greater risk now than ever. Terrorists smell weakness. Take a look at history. Jimmah Carter (Obama the first) gets elected and the jihadis take our embassy hostage.. UNTIL.. Ronaldus Magnus gets elected. They couldn’t release them fast enough at that point.

Ever stare down a ticked off rottweiler sonny??? Show the least bit of weakness or fear and your jugular is hamburger. Do it right and he runs off with his tail between his legs. We have a weakling who combines the worst qualities of quisling, neville chamberlain and a typical wussified metrosexual castrati. We needed Theodore Roosevelt, Winston Churchill or Jan II Sobieski…

Anyway, Bush sure did a good job of keeping WMDs away from the “Axis of Evil”, didnt he?

Well, if you consider the handicap of a left wing media and a left wing congress doing their best fifth column impersonation then I would say he did a tremendous job. During the 1940′s in france we would have seen a lot of shaved heads on the streets. Today, traitorism is fashionable.

orange on May 28, 2009 at 1:33 PM

bullseye on May 28, 2009 at 10:59 PM

And within Asia, it’s Korea. Trust me.

DarkCurrent on May 28, 2009 at 1:15 PM

Dude, what? And you lived in Japan?

I went to Seoul and I’ve never seen a homelier bunch of women. All the cute ones are in Japan.

amkun on May 29, 2009 at 2:02 AM

Comment pages: 1 2