Just the limited experience I’ve had dealing with Medicare is enough to convince me that nationalized health care would be nothing less than a disaster of epic proportions. We’ll all have to put up with this bureaucratic B.S. soon enough when we turn 65; I’d like to keep it that way, thanksverymuch. I think if we could get away from this notion of employer-provided insurance, that would be the best thing we could do to reform health care. For all the talk about “the European system,” there is little mention of Switzerland, which does NOT provide state-run health care but does require all residents to purchase their own insurance. If Washington wants to regulate something, why not that? Or better yet, let the states mandate it on their own terms, as they do with car and home insurance. Neither of which, BTW, are subsidized by employers. I fully understand that to buy your own insurance out of pocket now is expensive; I know because I buy my own (though I’m very happy with the cost and coverage of my own plan). But much of the reason for that is that the market is stunted and anemic precisely because so few people are in it sharing the risk. I see no reason it couldn’t — or wouldn’t — become more robust and competitive with 300 million people active in the marketplace. Speaking of which, why is there never any mention of the fact that nationalizing health care would put scores of insurance companies out of business, and their employees on the unemployment line? Is this really what we need right now? More financial turmoil? Or I suppose The One would just take over Blue Cross Blue Shield like he has with the car companies. Delightful.

I realize that there will always be people who fall through the cracks, people with pre-existing or chronic conditions, who would never be able to afford to provide for their own care in a purely private pay system, but that’s what risk pools are for. The answer is NOT Medicaid on steroids. Ask anyone who has had to deal with Medicaid — or Medicare — how effective the system is. There are still thousands of those folks not getting the care they need because there simply are not enough providers to go around. Anyone who thinks this reality isn’t going to get WORSE once the government tries to ensure all of us is simply deluding themselves.

I’ll stick with my emotional plea while you sit there and deny children healthcare.

And with whose money will you implement this emotion? The level of child care is no better in Canada, children can’t get any better or faster care than adults. So save the “think of the children” emotional blackmail rubbish.

There is no lack of MRI machines, as I said my son had a MEI the same day

So based on your one experience, you are concluding that there is no shortage of MRI machines, or specialists, or surgeons, or doctors in Canada as a whole? BTW, what happens in Quebec is not indicative of the rest of Canada. Just in case you didn’t notice, Quebec does things differently, and all subsidized by Ontario.

Is there a supply of sick people and if they are dead, where exactly is the demand? You are talking about people here, not pizza pockets…

There is a demand for health care and a supply of it at a given price. The price reflects the demand. Pay the price if you want it. There can be no right to free products or services that are so expensive. That way madness lies. The system is broke as a result, and the taxes can’t support it. It is unsustainable. If you want medicine, if you want car insurance, if you want groceries, if you want clothes, if you want a house, you pay for it. Start giving away those things for “free” and see what happens. Well, we have seen. We are broke, just as medicare and medicaid are broke.

No, with your gammy hand, you have an existing condition, good luck with getting insured.

I didn’t have a gammy hand until our system made it that way by denying me attention for 12 months while it atrophied. In the US, I would have got the surgery in a timely fashion. Some things are worth paying for. And you get what you pay for.

Buddy I’ve lived on both sides, save your garbage for someone else.

Buddy, you have been sucking at the teat of the taxpayers in an unsustainable system and never having the rationing affect you in Quebec.

keep the change on May 27, 2009 at 10:42 PM

Wow

I’ll stick with my emotional plea while you sit there and deny children healthcare.

There is no lack of MRI machines, as I said my son had a MEI the same day

Says who? Says the socialist ideology where everybody is entitled to something that any person who pays taxes knows is far too expensive to ever be a right. And in Canada, it is not affordable health care we have, it is “free” health care. Health care is like any other commodity. You get it if you can pay for it. Supply and demand.

Is there a supply of sick people and if they are dead, where exactly is the demand? You are talking about people here, not pizza pockets…

In America, you buy insurance for health, just like you buy insurance for your car. The tax payers don’t pay for your car insurance.

No, with your gammy hand, you have an existing condition, good luck with getting insured.

Buddy I’ve lived on both sides, save your garbage for someone else.

47 Million+ do not and those that have less than full coverage is much higher.

That is a minority the last time I checked out of a nation of 300 million, the majority of which have access to the highest technology in the world, and in medicine, technology is what counts, not what is free.

There is no rationing as I’ve pointed out. As a Christian, it’s my duty to be my brothers keeper.

No rationing? Do you know what that word means? When you have so few MRI machines that it takes months to use one, that is rationing. When there are so few specialists that it takes months to see one, that is rationing. As far as your religion is concerned, you can give to charity. But you got no business using my money to pay for your health care.

Everyone sould have the ability to access affordable healthcare, it’s not a competition.

Says who? Says the socialist ideology where everybody is entitled to something that any person who pays taxes knows is far too expensive to ever be a right. And in Canada, it is not affordable health care we have, it is “free” health care. Health care is like any other commodity. You get it if you can pay for it. Supply and demand.

And…should they just all go under a bridge and die? You are talking kids here as well.

That is not an argument. That is an emotional plea. Policy based on emotions is what has created a debt monster that is sinking the West.

No the Canadian system is where everyone can see a Doctor and not worry abvout losing their house / job/ everything else.

No, the Canadian system is one where everyone can see a GP. If you need to see a specialist or you need surgery, you can be very much screwed. Especially if you need one because you have a tumor growing in you, or like me, you have a nerve entrapment that is atrophying while you wait 12 months for surgery. In America, you buy insurance for health, just like you buy insurance for your car. The tax payers don’t pay for your car insurance.

In the US, most people have insurance, so you are comparing apples to oranges

47 Million+ do not and those that have less than full coverage is much higher.

The Canadian system is a manifestation of socialism where everyone, regardless of income, shares the same misery by rationing

There is no rationing as I’ve pointed out. As a Christian, it’s my duty to be my brothers keeper.

Which is more important? The needs of the many, or the needs of the few?

Everyone sould have the ability to access affordable healthcare, it’s not a competition.

The Canadian system is only better for the working poor

And…should they just all go under a bridge and die? You are talking kids here as well.

The Canadian system is a manifestation of socialism where everyone, regardless of income, shares the same misery by rationing

No the Canadian system is where everyone can see a Doctor and not worry abvout losing their house / job/ everything else.

Go to a hospital in the US with no health insurance and ask them to give you larger does of pain medication LOL!

In the US, most people have insurance, so you are comparing apples to oranges. Why reduce everyone to the lowest common denominator? In Canada, where we supposedly have insurance, we still get treated like dirt, and we still need to buy expensive private insurance for dental and medication, two huge expenses. So we have the worst of both worlds.

My brother last year had a pinched nerve in his back act up. He could not walk. He was confined to bed. He needed an MRI for surgery, but the MRI wait list was months. Instead, he was able to go to Buffalo to get an MRI the next day.

With our system, he was screwed, laying in his own sh1t. Thankfully, he had the US system, and his own money, to bail him out.

Canada has chosen to give everybody a low level of service, at the expense of everybody, rather than the US system, where they have chosen to give most people a high level of service at the expense of a few who have no service. Which is better? Which is more important? The needs of the many, or the needs of the few? The Canadian system is only better for the working poor, and only if they never need serious or quick care. The US system is better for everyone else, namely the majority, and is the best if you need fast and advanced care, and let’s face it, when you are sick, time is of the essence.

The Canadian system is a manifestation of socialism where everyone, regardless of income, shares the same misery by rationing. And still, despite the lack of doctors and advanced machines, it is broke just like the US system with plenty of doctors and advanced machines. So what is gained by going the socialist route?

We subsidize you.

landshark on May 27, 2009 at 7:45 PM

No actually you just asked the Feds for a bailout. Alberta lives and breaths on a boom-bust economy.

Bad fiscal and government management have made this the norm in Alberta.

Wy you are not a bit more pissed about that, I don’t know.

Let’s have a quick look at weel run provincial govt:

Manitoba 4.6% (5.1%)
Saskatchewan 5.0% (4.7%)

And Brad..well Brad is a Conservative who kicks ass and takes numbers.

His Province is havin a party while the rest burn.

And you talk Alberta?

The article points out that because we have a larger population we get more money. That is, the money dolled out is on a per captia basis. NB gets more than Quebec.

What’s your point exactly?

harry on May 27, 2009 at 7:31 PM

Wow. You receive less than what NB does. Booming, economic, powerhouse New Brunswick. Net recipient are still takers. i.e. a “drain”. We subsidize you.

And, make no mistake, I’m not whining about Alberta’s economy. We still have jobs, the lowest inflation rate, the lowest tax rate in Canada, and until this year budget surpluses. Our “bad times” are still pretty damn good.

If it was, instead, a follow-up exam for the broken leg, then it seems safe to say they booked the MRI when they scheduled the appointment. Far less impressive, that.

landshark on May 27, 2009 at 7:34 PM

Nope same day. Nothing scheduled. He was moved from Gatineau Hospital to the Ottawa Hospital for Sick Kids and given the MRI straight away.

He was a little hurt three year old.

There was no discussion, the doctor recommended it and it was done.

I rode in the ambulance.

Go to a hospital in the US with no health insurance and ask them to give you larger does of pain medication LOL!

I’ve been there when I was in my twenties and hadn’t a care in the world. The system was degrading and horrific. It took me almost 5 years to pay off the bill I was given.

The present system in the US is broken, period. Saying NO to every alternate idea is less than intelligent.

All I’ve ever heard is Canada Health System Bad (when overall it is not) US PRESENT system is good (which it is most certainly NOT).

Where is the middle ground?

harry on May 27, 2009 at 7:11 PM

Examining the damage from a broken femur is a “normal checkup”? Gee, for most of us that sort of thing means some basic bloodwork, checking out the CV system, examining for warning signs of common ailments, etc.

If it was, instead, a follow-up exam for the broken leg, then it seems safe to say they booked the MRI when they scheduled the appointment. Far less impressive, that.

oh you’re funny “every pays into the fed”… yeah, and does what they pay in compare to what they get out.

Quebec: Canada’s shiftless uncle.

landshark on May 27, 2009 at 7:26 PM

The article points out that because we have a larger population we get more money. That is, the money dolled out is on a per captia basis. NB gets more than Quebec.

What’s your point exactly?

Quebec: Canada’s shiftless uncle.

I went to the same hospital 4 years ago with abdominal pain. They saw me right away. But I was in so much pain, the Dermerol they gave me had no effect. My father, who came by my side, asked for more Demerol on my behalf an hour later. It took them another hour to give me more because the doctor was somewhere else and there was only one doctor available for all the patients. The pain only got worse. I was at this point screaming in pain, like a woman in child labor. They refused me any better pain medication and just left me like that all evening. I felt like a hot knife was cutting my bowel. They kept me screaming like that. For four more hours non-stop. Never even stopped in to see why the pain medication was not working or bothered to wonder why I was screaming. My father sheepishly asked the nurse for some stronger pain medicine, and the nurse threatened to have him thrown out by security if he dared make that request again. I kid you not.

Wonderful socialist hospital.

Wonderful socialist staff.

Wonderful socialist medicine.

You guys are in for a world of hurt. Welcome to the Third World.

Actually my son did, he had a pretty bad accident when he was three. He had an MRI as part of the normal checkup.
I call bullshit. An MRI is not considered part of a normal checkup.

Given the numbers in this article, I’m quite confident that my assessment of your statement is accurate. By the way, did you know that Quebec has only reduced it’s MRI wait times because it uses private clinics? What do you know – the public system lacks sufficient operating capacity.

O.K. then…maybe you could ask the doctors who did it. My son fell and broke his femur, they were concerned that during the falls he had hit other parts and an MRI was dome immediately.

Why the heck would I make that up?

When the median wait time for an MRI in Canada is 12 weeks, and Manitoba is the quickest at only 8 weeks, I find your claim laughable.

Did you even read the 2nd paragraph of that article? Clearly not.

landshark on May 27, 2009 at 6:54 PM

Yeah I did but poster would have you believe that Ontario / Quebec contributed nothing. All provinces pay into the Fed. That Alberta paid slightly more per capita during boom times is irrelevant.

Whenever they bust the whining starts.

As for the fact that Alverta mismanged it’s finances…weeeelllll.

That’s Alberta for ya all hat, no cattle.

Actually my son did, he had a pretty bad accident when he was three. He had an MRI as part of the normal checkup.

I call bullshit. An MRI is not considered part of a normal checkup.

Given the numbers in this article, I’m quite confident that my assessment of your statement is accurate. By the way, did you know that Quebec has only reduced it’s MRI wait times because it uses private clinics? What do you know – the public system lacks sufficient operating capacity.

As for Alberta picking up the tab….

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/alberta-asks-ottawa-for-220-million-in-aid/article1152550/

Yeah O.K.

harry on May 27, 2009 at 6:47 PM

Did you even read the 2nd paragraph of that article? Clearly not.

what’s the MRI to person ratio in the two countries? You’d think it was brand-new technology, or something.

Actually my son did, he had a pretty bad accident when he was three. He had an MRI as part of the normal checkup.

Nice to know that your childless neighbors are paying for your son’s daycare. As an adult with no children I can tell how GD’d thrilled I would be but in Alberta we still think that parents who live above the poverty line should take primary responsibility for ensuring that their kids are looked after while they work.

That’s the way the system works, I didn’t ask for it, it’s the way it is. Most people are pretty comfortable with it. My son’s class size is 20 students per class, the daycare is cheap and my standard of living is higher than it was when I lived in the US.

As for Alberta picking up the tab….

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/alberta-asks-ottawa-for-220-million-in-aid/article1152550/

Yeah O.K.