Sunday night Twitter fight: Straw men, then and now
posted at 7:15 pm on May 24, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
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Today’s bill: Jake Tapper vs KarlRove and Jenfidel. The New York Times has taken notice of a rhetorical habit into which President Obama has fallen, and it touched off quite a row on Twitter today, which I saw mostly from my cell phone. Does Barack Obama use straw men more than Republicans? After noting that Democrats whined for eight years about George Bush’s use of them, Obama seems pretty comfortable with the practice, too:
Now that there is a new team at the White House, guess who is knocking down straw men left and right? To listen to President Obama, a veritable army of naysayers has invaded Washington, urging him to sit on his hands at the White House and do nothing to address any of the economic or national security problems facing the country.
“There are those who say these plans are too ambitious, that we should be trying to do less, not more,” Mr. Obama told a town-hall-style meeting in Costa Mesa, Calif., on March 18. “Well, I say our challenges are too large to ignore.”
Mr. Obama did not specify who, exactly, was saying America should ignore its challenges.
Similarly, the next day in Los Angeles, Mr. Obama took on Wall Street and Washington, two of his favorite straw men. “I know some folks in Washington and on Wall Street are saying we should just focus on their problems,” Mr. Obama said. “It would be nice if I could just pick and choose what problems to face, when to face them. So I could say, well, no, I don’t want to deal with the war in Afghanistan right now; I’d prefer not having to deal with climate change right now. And if you could just hold on, even though you don’t have health care, just please wait, because I’ve got other things to do.”
Mr. Obama continued on the offensive against straw men that day in Los Angeles, pointing out that critics told him not to go on “The Tonight Show With Jay Leno” on NBC because “I can’t handle that and the economy at the same time.” Then, his audience primed, he delivered his standard kill line: “Listen, here’s what I say. I say our challenges are too big to ignore.”
One has to marvel at the fact that the NYT was the first major media outlet to note this practice. Karl Rove pointed out first on his Twitter feed:
Must Read: Helene Coopers’ WH Memo http://tinyurl.com/ogztyc I’m also collecting a list of Obama’s Straw Men on Rove.com. #TCOT
Tapper responded:
@karlrove i agree POTUS fights strawmen too often- but so did President Bush. Did it bother you then? do u acknowledge it?
That got Jenfidel started:
@jaketapper The other instances you called “straw men,” there were actual Democrats (often many) saying that very thing. Bush didn’t do it.
Most of the Twitter fight took place between the latter two; be sure to read through their entire feeds. While I empathize with Jenfidel and agree that the media was a lot tougher on Bush than Obama, Tapper’s closer to the truth. In fact, everyone uses straw men from time to time, and politicians more often than most. It’s just too easy to belittle your opposition by using a reductio ad absurdum and replacing their more nuanced arguments with a risible slogan or two. If that’s how we get “Some here want us to sit on our hands and do nothing” from Obama, then it’s also how we got “If you’re not with us, you’re against us” from Bush about other nations in the war on terror.
The problem for Obama is that repeated use of the straw man reduces credibility. The fact that Helene Cooper has already collected enough for a feature article after a mere four months on the job demonstrates that Obama is making too much use of a lazy crutch in order to make his argument. It also undermines his supposed status as a post-partisan moderate; if Obama spends his time mischaracterizing the opposition, then he can’t be much of a post-partisan at all. It took Bush and his administration eight years to get the list Tapper compiled, which makes Cooper’s article all the more striking for its contrast.
Update: Somehow, I missed Jimmy Bise in that exchange. Be sure to check out his comments, too.
Update II: Some in the comments object to me calling the “with us/against us” comment a strawman. Well, in fact some countries opposed our war policies without declaring war against the US or declaring an alliance with the terrorists. It was a straw man to declare such opposition in and of itself hostility towards the US. Does that mean I think Bush was wrong in his policies and his public emphasis on them? No, but it was still a straw man argument.
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I refuse to tweet.
Ugly on May 24, 2009 at 7:32 PM
eh
Upstater85 on May 24, 2009 at 7:33 PM
Obama’s straw men also think in false dilemeesa, too. The traw men think they must choose between morality and security (on national security) and morality and science (on stem cells).
Wethal on May 24, 2009 at 7:38 PM
The Precedent’s problem is not straw men, it’s that he’s stupid and just flat-out lies like crazy. At least, the straw men he constructs are attempts to use reason (woefully inadequate efforts, but the best that such a sub-par mind can muster).
progressoverpeace on May 24, 2009 at 7:40 PM
I honestly don’t know how often Bush used strawmen. My boss absolutely hated the use of strawmen, even if it benefited him and his organization, he’d call us out on them in public….”who is ‘they’” he’d blast us with right in the middle of a presentation or a meeting.
Obama does use them a lot. Far too much. To me, all it does is solidify the notion that he not only does not really know what the hell he’s doing, nor does he care, but he also does not actually have the support he claims to have either. If he did, he’d be using factual quotes and situations instead of strawmen.
There is nothing good about Obambi, this to me is just another in a long line of examples that prove it.
Spiritk9 on May 24, 2009 at 7:41 PM
A great Powerline article on Obama’s use of fallacies
Wethal on May 24, 2009 at 7:42 PM
Ah yeah. Me either. I created an account and deleted it a few days afterward. It’s possibly the absolute dumbest use of the internet evah.
Spiritk9 on May 24, 2009 at 7:43 PM
I followed this on Twitter and noted the comment from Jenfidel when Jake “unfollowed” her so she couldn’t DM him anymore. She called him out on that one too. Oops! More than 140 characters in this comment.
Terri on May 24, 2009 at 7:46 PM
You are turning out as bad Allah, Ed. He uses the pessimisn shtick and you use the fairness shtick. Spare us this blarney. Go on attack. Or at least, don’t throw those who do under the bus.
promachus on May 24, 2009 at 7:46 PM
This is from Jake’s tweeting:
WHO??? Um, Sen. P. Murray (D-WA) that’s who! {google it Jake ~ it is NOT that hard!}
Branch Rickey on May 24, 2009 at 7:46 PM
Why does Hot Air keep flashing “You are not allowed to leave comments” so very often? I had to log out and log back in.
promachus on May 24, 2009 at 7:46 PM
Most of us are vulnerable to most logical fallacies. To overcome it in ourselves & recognise even when we Want to agree with it takes a bit of effort. My seat of the pants impression is that liberals embrace the strawman more, conservatives the slippery slope. The reduction to abserdity seems to be a fav of both and with many of the 3rd parties.
Fun 4 all.
dts-01 on May 24, 2009 at 7:48 PM
Pray for Obama to overcome these fights.
PrezHussein on May 24, 2009 at 7:49 PM
Good for you. Twittering is for twits and groupies. People with actual thoughts can use a coherent format for conversations and articles.
Right_of_Attila on May 24, 2009 at 7:49 PM
I’m sure she called him out in the most civil, rational way…
Upstater85 on May 24, 2009 at 7:49 PM
If Hitler had Twitter he would have said that same thing!
- The Cat
MirCat on May 24, 2009 at 7:52 PM
Terri on May 24, 2009 at 7:46 PM
I noticed that. Jake was getting very testy. Not like him, as a rule. I give him a lot of credit for his reporting, and asking hard questions of Gibbs, but his panties got in a tizzy over this.
sybilll on May 24, 2009 at 7:52 PM
Thank you! If a poster wants to convert twitter comments to a regular internet post, I’ll check it out. Otherwise, I’m not there.
Christian Conservative on May 24, 2009 at 7:52 PM
This is not about logical fallacies. Liberals don’t employ logic; they feel their way through life, as best exemplified by The Precedent’s desire for a justice to have empathy (which goes against the age-old Western tradition that “justice is blind”). The only time that liberals use logic is as a weapon to force something illogical and irrational. Luckily, they are not very good at it. Unluckily, too many people are morons.
As to conservatives’ use fo the slippery slope argument, there is nothing disingenuous or wrong about its use. All of life involves setting limits and sticking to them. That is what creates order. Liberals are out to create chaos.
progressoverpeace on May 24, 2009 at 7:55 PM
I did the same thing with Myspace some time ago when my kids told me I needed one. Online Social Networking? Pffhhht. Who has the time.
Ugly on May 24, 2009 at 7:57 PM
Also, I never text with my cell. I use my cell maybe once a day, and usually to call a family member. I see people posting to websites with their cells and it freaks me out.
I used to think I was so cool.
Ugly on May 24, 2009 at 7:59 PM
“reduces”? What credibility did the moron ever have? He’s a fool and has never shown himself to be anything but a fool.
If his “profit and earnings ratios” comment didn’t take away any minor vestige of credibility that anyone might have had in reserve for the idiot, then I don’t think anything will.
progressoverpeace on May 24, 2009 at 7:59 PM
Actually, Tapper had a much better conversation with @jimmiebjr, Jimmy from the Sundries Shack.
And Jenfidel is wrong- you don’t have to follow someone to send them a DM. They have to follow you. So Tapper could DM her if she follows him.
I think he’s good for a debate.
MayBee on May 24, 2009 at 8:04 PM
Good job to Rove for compiling that list. If it makes Obama stop, super. If not, it’ll be helpful in a few years.
kc8ukw on May 24, 2009 at 8:06 PM
nerds.
bluelightbrigade on May 24, 2009 at 8:08 PM
That is only because Dear Leader doesn’t have any substantive arguments to make.
Oh, and I do not tweet nor use facebook/myspace. Indeed, I intend to compose a handwritten letter to a friend tomorrow, and use the postal service to deliver it. Not everything needs to be at light speed; try slowing down once in a while.
rbj on May 24, 2009 at 8:09 PM
She pesters him, and when he turns away, she comments.
Strawwoman exemplified.
unclesmrgol on May 24, 2009 at 8:09 PM
+100
Upstater85 on May 24, 2009 at 8:12 PM
Or do I have what a “DM” is wrong? I don’t twitter. The computer does not control me, I control the computer. You want to talk to me, you comment here, or you send me e-mail. But IM technologies are forbidden to anyone other than my immediate family — that’s the cool thing about running your own server.
unclesmrgol on May 24, 2009 at 8:12 PM
OT: I just made the mistake of upgrading to Firefox 3.0 and lost ALL of my bookmarks. If I revert back to 2.0, will they come back?? PLEASE SAY YES
Ugly on May 24, 2009 at 8:14 PM
Shees, Ed! How’d you miss me?
I was involved in that exchange as well (@jimmiebjr) and was the guy who dug up the quotes that put Tapper on the defensive. He originally left, then came back to engage me on what I had said (and, if you ask Jenfidel, he seemed quite chastened).
Tapper asked who was talking “therapy” as Rove alleged, and I found long quotes from both Obama and Dick Gephart talking about how we needed to listen to the terrorists and address their despair (Obama’s quote was from an article just a few days after 9/11). As I told Tapper, that’s as close to the definition of “therapy” as you’re going to get.
(Thank you MayBee! I didn’t see your comment at first!)
Jimmie Bise, Jr on May 24, 2009 at 8:24 PM
Go Jenfidel!
Kensington on May 24, 2009 at 8:26 PM
Ugly on May 24, 2009 at 8:14 PM
YES!!! It worked. Okay back to your regularly scheduled whatever.
Ugly on May 24, 2009 at 8:29 PM
Try Foxmarks to keep your Firefox bookmarks stored in an online account. It will transfer them to other computers and versions of Firefox.
Right_of_Attila on May 24, 2009 at 8:33 PM
Now that you’ve gotten them back, save your bookmarks into a json file and send it to yourself as an e-mail. you should do that every so often as you accumulate links. Plus, you can hand edit the json file to groom your bookmarks. If you make a mistake, just get one from an old e-mail and you’re good to go.
unclesmrgol on May 24, 2009 at 8:34 PM
I prefer bar fights
blatantblue on May 24, 2009 at 8:36 PM
Right_of_Attila on May 24, 2009 at 8:33 PM
unclesmrgol on May 24, 2009 at 8:34 PM
Thanks, will try both methods!
Ugly on May 24, 2009 at 8:37 PM
That I’d pay to see… Strawman vs Strawwoman.
Upstater85 on May 24, 2009 at 8:39 PM
These two are not comparable statements — one is a declaration of policy not an accusation that some unnamed countries are against us and thus we must proceed. While the other is clearly a reductio ad absurdum to beat down any counter argument.
Seriously, you could have come up many from Bush — but this one does not qualify.
David
LifeTrek on May 24, 2009 at 8:47 PM
Wait, “if you aren’t with us, then you are with the terrorists” is a straw man?
I’m not seeing it.
Count to 10 on May 24, 2009 at 8:51 PM
He goes way beyond that. He is like Dr. Jekyll (words) and Mr. Hyde (actions).
Obama’s Double-Talk
While the president talks sobriety, his policies take America on an economic bender.
Barack Obama’s revelatory moment may have come in his first week as president. On his first day of work, he signed an executive order prohibiting lobbyists from holding highranking administration jobs, thereby fulfilling a campaign promise to “close the revolving door” between K Street and government via “the most sweeping ethics reform in history.” Two days later, the president granted a “waiver” from the new rules to install Raytheon lobbyist William Lynn as the No. 2 man in the Pentagon.
As offenses go, the move was trivial. But as a signal of a governing pathology, it established a pattern that Obama has repeated serially since being sworn into office: reiterate a high-sounding promise from the campaign, undermine said promise with a concrete act of governance to the contrary, then claim with a straight face that the campaign promise has been and will continue to be fulfilled.
Once you identify the president’s tic of celebrating the very campaign promises [and pronouncements] that he breaks, you’ll see it everywhere.
MB4 on May 24, 2009 at 8:53 PM
when you use “precedent” in reference to the President is that a mis-spelling or some rhetorical device i just dont get? cause that one bugs me as much as when people spell amendment “ammendment”.
chasdal on May 24, 2009 at 8:54 PM
Hmmm. I like Tapper, but agree with Rove. But…Rove’s got noted crazy person Jenfidel, who uses words like “fagenda” and “deathstyle” to describe my life, so I don’t know where to stand on this fight.
It's Vintage, Duh on May 24, 2009 at 8:59 PM
I think politicians use strawman arguments because as a rule, they are cowards. They don’t want to use names, that would be mean. When is the last time you heard someone call another person a liar when caught lying? Anybody called Pelosi a liar? Isn’t a liar someone who lies? But no, that would be mean. They have to say she’s being “disingenuous” or she “misspoke.” Political correctness has destroyed our language. Call a spade a spade, for crying out loud.
Special K on May 24, 2009 at 9:08 PM
Many years ago, a friend and I decided to take responsibility for “they” as in “they say”. So, when you hear someone say “they say”, assume that the “they” is Eric and Alan.
Buford Gooch on May 24, 2009 at 9:12 PM
They need to dig deeper, this weasel does this almost every time he opens his mouth. I recall during the campaign he was always speaking of his grand plans by saying “don’t tell me we can’t” or “you can’t tell me we can’t”. There’s even an energy commercial or something that uses a soundbyte of him doing this.
The problem? Most of the time there wasn’t anyone trying to “tell him we can’t” do anything, but by saying that he painted himself as some outsider who stands for “change” but the man is trying to keep him down.
RightWinged on May 24, 2009 at 9:13 PM
I call him “The Precedent” because that is why he was elected, for no reason other than to set a precedent (the first black President), and that is all he is, as he has no other skills or talents or reason to be occupying the White House.
progressoverpeace on May 24, 2009 at 9:18 PM
why do I hate twitter so much?
Ampersand on May 24, 2009 at 9:41 PM
Well, I don’t like them. If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem, i.e., against us.
Blake on May 24, 2009 at 9:42 PM
Ed, I’m flattered! Really.
It’s not every day to you get to kick the butt of an MSM golden boy like Tapper!
It was a long, hard slog though.
Tapper just wouldn’t admit that he was giving Obama a large pass.
I maintained that Obama uses at least one straw man argument in *every* speech he gives.
Today, the American Thinker had this:Obama blames 7 straw men for being “out of money”
When I replied with that link, Tapper seemed to really lose it! (Tee hee!)
He accused Bush (and Cheney and Rove) of using straw man arguments “so often” and pointed me to ONE story he wrote about Bush doing this in 2004.
(Note that: One story out of Bush’s 8 years in office!
Note also that the “you’re either with us or on the side of the terrorists” wasn’t one of the examples he cited.)
You can follow the argument better if you can access a Twitter search engine and just put in “jaketapper.”
Jimmie Bise & I tag-teamed him: Jimmie came in with a killer cite from a Sweetness and Light post wherein State Senator Obama is quoted as saying after 9/11 that we needed to give the terrorists “understanding.”
Tapper just wouldn’t let it go.
He kept saying “happy weekend everyone” and then kept coming back to argue some more.
Finally it got so bad that I told him that saying Bush, Cheney and Rove used straw men “so often” (thereby implying that it was OK for Obama to do it, too), was HIS own straw man argument!
Other Twitterers joined in at this point and asked things like “Why don’t you just do your job and report the news, instead of whining about Bush?”
One of my favorite commenters asked him this:”@jaketapper Jeeze if only you were this (bleeping) hard on the president when asking HIM questions.”
LOL!
Here’s another goody: “@jaketapper How many media sources are pointing out the strawman issue as compared to how many did during the Bush administration?”
The answer,of course, is none, except for that NYTimes piece,and then it’s only Conservative outlets like American Thinker and Karl Rove but Tapper didn’t answer that one!
Tapper’s whole schtick is that he pretends to be “objective” and “fair.”
Today, he was totally busted in public in real time.
Knock Twitter all you want, but I think it’s pretty terrific!
Tell me where else an ordinary “bitter clinger” like me could confront the ABC White House correspondent about his horrible bias.
May Bee, I figured that out, too–I was following Jake so he was sending me DMs telling me I was being “rude & insulting”–Notice he wouldn’t put this in a public reply because he knew it was a ludicrous accusation.
He’s blocked now.
Actually, it was just the opposite. (Read the Tweets and/or ask Jimmie B.)
We’d kick his butt, move on and then he’d come back and pester us, spoiling for more and repeating the same talking points.
He just wouldn’t admit that we’d given him an ass-whoopin’ and that Obama was a chronic straw man addict.
Jenfidel on May 24, 2009 at 9:51 PM
Name just one European country who opposed American war policies in the Middle-East that hasn’t capitulated to the savageries of Islam.
You shall know a weed by its thorns. If you aid and comfort Islamic nutbags, you are against America, so declaration is not necessary.
TMK on May 24, 2009 at 10:24 PM
I glad you asked. It makes sense now.
Clyde5445 on May 24, 2009 at 10:27 PM
I remember reading those Obama remarks. He said we needed to try and understand the terrorists’ point of view, and that people who do these types of things (fly planes into buildings) are acting out of desperation because they’re poor and uneducated. Of course, it turned out that the 9/11 terrorists were a bunch of college-educated, middle-class Saudis (being directed and financed by a multi-millionaire Saudi and his Egyptian-physician lieutenant). But being proven dead wrong never stops Obama from continuing to spew liberal nonsense.
AZCoyote on May 24, 2009 at 10:31 PM
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Obama’s got a chief speechwriter with even less experience and depth than he has. The speechwriter (and teleprompter) just keep replaying the campaign speech and Obama keeps reading it. Time to re-boot.
rgeaste on May 24, 2009 at 10:34 PM
I have jenfidel’s back!
infidel on May 24, 2009 at 10:34 PM
Seriously, I’ve always thought the love that Tapper gets from the Right is misplaced. I remember when he was the political hack at Salon.com, and back then he was as bad as Conason and Greenwald, a complete Democrat cheerleader, concerned only with attacking the Right relentlessly.
That’s where his heart is, make no mistake.
Kensington on May 24, 2009 at 10:41 PM
When did President Bush say that? Senator Hillary Clinton was the first one to say “you’re either with us or against us”:
This is what President Bush stated:
Funny how not even righty blogs attribute the “with us or against us” statement to the proper person (Hillary).
Michael in MI on May 24, 2009 at 10:44 PM
Found your reply on Twitter and am now following you! :-)
(Love your dog!)
Jenfidel on May 24, 2009 at 10:48 PM
Obama creates 7 strawman every 15 minutes. We have a winner. We can gather them and brew cellulosic ethanol from them and save the planet.
Years ago I tried to harvest a good idea from Hillary. If she could trade beef futures and make 50,000 a month, she could addd some zeros and pay off the National debt. Too bad they ignore my taking good ideas from good people.
seven on May 24, 2009 at 10:51 PM
Awww, thanks. Corky was the best dog evah, and I’m immortalizing him.
Kensington on May 24, 2009 at 10:54 PM
Much obliged, infidel…and Kensington!
Jenfidel on May 24, 2009 at 11:16 PM
Thanks for explaining The Precedent. It’s becomes a lame use of language quickly, but at least it explains an otherwise annoying misspelling.
Right_of_Attila on May 24, 2009 at 11:31 PM
No problem.
I rather like it. It’s truly odd that the near-homonym perfectly describes him and his position. In any event, he’s not a President, to me, so “Precedent” is as close as I will get.
progressoverpeace on May 25, 2009 at 1:03 AM
Do the “tweets” include these DM things? Is allowing a DM integral to “tweeting”?
I don’t tweet and don’t want to begin. So someone please clear this up. At the present time, the image I have from Terry is that Jenfidel used out of band comms (I assume DM means “Direct Message”, and is not part of the normal twitter message stream) to badger Tapper until he “banned” her from his personal input data.
Did Terry misspeak? Did I misinterpret what she said, or did she misspeak, such that I need to apologize?
unclesmrgol on May 25, 2009 at 1:03 AM
The Clinton’s were notorious for straw men.
One of the biggest currently making the circuit is the one used by the big spending, big government moderate repubs who are calling the fiscally prudent small gov repubs part of Hillary’s vast right wing conspiracy.
They want us to vote for Collins, Snowe, Specter and Crist etc because their moderates? Myself, I view them as enablers. Enablers of Obama and crew, cap and trade, trillion dollar bailouts and earmarks to name just a few.
Powell calls himself a repub and he voted for Obama! Arnie says he’ll probably endorse a Dem for Governor!
WTF…..
patrick neid on May 25, 2009 at 1:07 AM
Tapper is great. He’s one of the few real objective journalists working today.
Obama does use a lot of strawmen, but what I object to is how he tries to minimize and frame the debate.
I never really noticed Bush doing that. By the time Bush spoke about something, it wasn’t a strawman…..it was an outcry. *haha
AnninCA on May 25, 2009 at 1:56 AM
No, just the opposite.
(Did you even read my first post on this thread?)
The argument was all conducted in public, in full view of any of the other 3+ million Twitterers who cared to participate.
Tapper only sent me 1 DM and by then it was too late to save his behind…heheheheh!
Jenfidel on May 25, 2009 at 1:58 AM
Objective, my foot!
The man was clearly outed today for everyone to see as a Leftist, Obamabot hack!
Jenfidel on May 25, 2009 at 2:48 AM
But Tapper is one of the few really great and objective Leftist, Obamabot hacks.
Loxodonta on May 25, 2009 at 2:54 AM
Sorry, Jenfidel……I disagree.
He got into the snafu on Twitter, but in his real life job?
He’s one of the best.
And he’s anything but a Obamafan.
AnninCA on May 25, 2009 at 3:16 AM
Tapper writes for ABC – that is all you need to know.
There are no virgins in a whorehouse.
TexasJew on May 25, 2009 at 4:07 AM
Sorry, but I think Tapper is outstanding.
I note that he rarely fails to be taken seriously by Gibbs.
He’s a winner.
The snaffu about twitter was just that……
AnninCA on May 25, 2009 at 4:19 AM
*snort*
Is this what passes for discourse at DailyKos, TPM and HuffPo?
Tapper’s “cover” as an “objective” “journalist” was totally blown by this Twitter “snafu.”
He’s no WH reporter–he’s an Ogabe KoolAid dispenser!
The argument could be made that his Tweets are part of his “real life job.”
All I can say is that the “snafu” went on for over 2 hours and he certainly cared an awful lot about how he was being perceived on Twitter if it’s merely a social media that’s not supposed to be impact his “real life job.”
Jenfidel on May 25, 2009 at 6:09 AM
Too right! LOL
Jenfidel on May 25, 2009 at 6:09 AM
Agreed.
Why do people think Laura Ingraham has him on her show?
She appreciates his objectivity.
People slip from time to time. No one is never biased totally.
I like him. He does a good job. Puts sandbags like Helen Thomas to shame.
blatantblue on May 25, 2009 at 7:56 AM
No one is not never biased totally
is what i mean
blatantblue on May 25, 2009 at 7:57 AM
ok im screwing the pooch here
im trying to say
no one is ever totally objective. there we go
its early :[
blatantblue on May 25, 2009 at 8:07 AM
I generally think Jake Tapper is fair. But I was taken back a while back when he basically asked Eric Cantor(paraphrasing)”Do you feel comfortable in a Party that thinks your going to Hell?” That was an extremely leading question and quite unfair.
terryannonline on May 25, 2009 at 8:18 AM
….screwing the pooch…..
blatantblue on May 25,2009 at 8:07AM.
blatantblue:
This screwing you speak of,will it be done by,Robertson
or Phillips,hehe:)
canopfor on May 25, 2009 at 8:29 AM
That was so rich, so telling that it’s unforgettable, isn’t it? But it was swept under the rug by MSM, of course.
Obama uses logical fallacies when he thinks they’ll advance his agenda. He’s educated enough to recognize they’re fallacies, but he’s speaking for effect, not message, so veracity is subordinate to achieving the intended result. In other words, he’s intellectually dishonest (like a snake oil salesman), and intentionally so.
petefrt on May 25, 2009 at 8:30 AM
Gotta walk that fence. Cracks me up every time, never fails.
peacenprosperity on May 25, 2009 at 8:38 AM
Between the 24/7 coverage of my friends’ activities on FaceBook and Myspace, I simply don’t have time for twitter. Gotta go, my buddy just posted pics of himself eating a sandwich I gotta check out.
angryed on May 25, 2009 at 9:04 AM
My friend sat on a chair
bbl
blatantblue on May 25, 2009 at 9:12 AM
Dear progressoverpeace, I’m not as smart as you,but, I’m pretty sure that a Harvard Law Graduate is pretty smart. Also, the president of the Harvard Law Review usually is fairly intelligent, just saying.Smart enough to whip McCain and Caribou Barbie, who thought Africa was a country.dud
athensboy on May 25, 2009 at 9:14 AM
Obama is standing in a sewer and shouting up at us that he’s above it all. Forgive us for noticing what’s stuck to his shoes.
Jim Treacher on May 25, 2009 at 9:20 AM
Either your a terrorist or not isn’t a straw man article. Stop being wimpy while trying to be fair.
tomas on May 25, 2009 at 9:20 AM
There is no “but.”
Jim Treacher on May 25, 2009 at 9:21 AM
Athensmoron you make it too easy. If Obama is smart because he meat McCain, what does that say about Bush? He beat Kerry and Gore. Guess he’s a freaking genius.
PS: The Africa thing never happened, you know that. Your wonder boy did say – on camera – that he visited 57 states.
Game, set, match.
angryed on May 25, 2009 at 9:40 AM
Make that three for Tapper is a donk hack.
Blake on May 25, 2009 at 9:46 AM
Can you say Affirmative Action???
Ladywolfnl on May 25, 2009 at 9:46 AM
I just don’t see the draw of sitting there texting messages daily, to a website? Am I missing the irresistable lure here? LOL
I do agree. Both used, and have , and are currently using this tactic, and it’s pathetic. Is there not just one, up front, responsible, and willing to take the heat politician in our government?
capejasmine on May 25, 2009 at 10:12 AM
Sorry, Captain; the statement “If you’re not with us, you’re against us” is a logical fallacy, but it’s not a straw man. Rather, it is an example of a “false dilemma/dichotomy”:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dichotomy
The core of the fallacy is that the reasoning leaves no room for more than two choices on behalf of the object (”you”). It creates a dichotomy where none exists.
For it to be a straw man fallacy, there would need to be an active third authority in the reasoning (”some say” or “others claim”). This is not present, so it cannot be a straw man fallacy.
blueguitarbob on May 25, 2009 at 10:18 AM
I am the straw man … goo goo g’joob
bitsy on May 25, 2009 at 10:38 AM
This is the straw man of the year so far. In fact, its Siamese twin straw men.
Akzed on May 25, 2009 at 10:57 AM
“Twitter fight”? Sounds like two junior high school girls going after each other. Count me out of the twitter parade.
PatMac on May 25, 2009 at 11:03 AM
The President is stupid and has a sub-par mind, and only you are intelligent enough to recognize it? Been reading much Orwell lately?
hicsuget on May 25, 2009 at 11:23 AM
However there is a big butt.
Loxodonta on May 25, 2009 at 11:29 AM
Yes.
No. Many recognize it. Why are you intentionally lying about what I wrote? Where did I say anything about being the only one who recognizes it? Or do you just like setting up your own strawman for the “strawman” thread?
We are all living Orwell, now. Are you going to accuse me of claiming that I’m the “only” one who recognizes that?
progressoverpeace on May 25, 2009 at 11:43 AM
Me I’m waiting for the next big thing so I can ignore that too. I draw the line at eBay-ing (and posting here).
Mojave Mark on May 25, 2009 at 11:57 AM
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