NYT: Bush now relying heavily on foreign intel to interrogate terrorists
posted at 9:10 pm on May 23, 2009 by Allahpundit
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Wait, did I say Bush? You know who I mean.
The United States is now relying heavily on foreign intelligence services to capture, interrogate and detain all but the highest-level terrorist suspects seized outside the battlefields of Iraq and Afghanistan, according to current and former American government officials…
Human rights advocates say that relying on foreign governments to hold and question terrorist suspects could carry significant risks. It could increase the potential for abuse at the hands of foreign interrogators and could also yield bad intelligence, they say…
American officials say that in the last years of the Bush administration and now on Mr. Obama’s watch, the balance has shifted toward leaving all but the most high-level terrorist suspects in foreign rather than American custody. The United States has repatriated hundreds of detainees held at prisons in Cuba, Iraq and Afghanistan, but the current approach is different because it seeks to keep the prisoners out of American custody altogether…
As a safeguard against torture, Mr. Panetta said, the United States would rely on diplomatic assurances of good treatment. The Bush administration sought the same assurances, which critics say are ineffective…
American officials said the United States would still take custody of the most senior Qaeda operatives captured in the future.
A clever move in how it kills two birds with stone, avoiding further headaches for Obama over how to dispose of terrorists in U.S. custody while leaving jihadis in the possession of people willing and able to go the Mancow route for emergency information if need be. But, er, how is this significantly different from rendition? The only difference that I can see is that instead of grabbing these people ourselves and handing them over to Jordanian or Pakistani intel for interrogation, we’re leading their guys to the suspects and letting them take it from there. “Rendition-lite,” Tom Maguire calls it. Which makes this the second Bush policy despised by the left in the span of three days that The One’s decided to continue.
Exit question: What if some of these jihadis end up in the clutches of intel agencies that are actually sympathetic to them, like Pakistan’s?
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Not having read all the comments, perhaps someone has already made this point.
I am very confused.
If we discover some information about someone who might be a terrorist, and we capture that person, and bring him to ‘gitmo’, that’s a bad thing…
If we discover some information about someone who might be a terrorist, and we share that information with another country, and that country detains said suspect …..that’s a bad thing……
So if we discover some information about someone who might be a terrorist, and we just pretend that we don’t know anything about it, then we have not done those two bad things above, and that’s a good thing? Do I have this correct?
Skandia Recluse on May 23, 2009 at 10:57 PM
Great moments in Presidential (Candidate) Speeches:
“That’s not change. That’s more of the same.”
BPD on May 23, 2009 at 10:58 PM
Dude………..
………. I can’t believe you beat Allah to this.
By the way, I will busy cleaning my keyboard and screen for a little while…….
Seven Percent Solution on May 23, 2009 at 11:00 PM
Anybody in the USA is a blessed person but it’s always good to realize it. When the kids were little we would go down to the beach a couple of times a week (this was in Virginia) and we would always stop at the a farmer’s stall that he had near his fields. Buying whatever was fresh and waiting for the blueberries to ripen so Mom could make my Dad a cobbler. This country is heaven on Earth.
Cindy Munford on May 23, 2009 at 11:01 PM
That video is a drag.
Loxodonta on May 23, 2009 at 11:03 PM
Unless you are a Republican, then no matter what the choice or which you choose it is bad. See how easy that is?
Cindy Munford on May 23, 2009 at 11:03 PM
I say it to myself EVERY day. No joke. It often brings me to a little bit of tears to see the fruits of my parents labor: where we live, what we have. It really is amazing.
Moreover, it’s amazing to see what a rarity it is. Everyday is a special one indeed.
blatantblue on May 23, 2009 at 11:06 PM
IMHO, I live in one of the most unique and beautiful places on the f*cking planet — and all too often my peers blab on about how they “just can’t wait to leave.”
That’s the LAST THING I want to do, even though I must.
The human mind is innately ungrateful, I think.
blatantblue on May 23, 2009 at 11:08 PM
Yo Loxodonta, you just got some love on my page! Someone commented and said they “luv Lox!!!”
:p
!!! Secret admirer I guess!!!
blatantblue on May 23, 2009 at 11:10 PM
Dude…
Seven Percent Solution on May 23,2009 at 11:10PM.
Seven Percent Solution: I was going to e-mail Allah,
but I thought he might have it
waiting in the wings,so to
speak!:)
canopfor on May 23, 2009 at 11:12 PM
..a drag.
Loxondonta on May 23,2009 at 11:03PM.
Loxondonta: Try this one, Barack O’Bollywood!:)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sA-451XMsuY
canopfor on May 23, 2009 at 11:20 PM
You know how someone can say something (usually someone you don’t know well) that changes your perspective? Kobe Bryant at the Olympics and his patriotism is an example. I saw Whoopee Goldberg in an interview once and she was referred to as an African-American. She stated that she had been to Africa and that she is an American. She was in no way being disrespectful of her ancestry but acknowledging her good fortune to be an American. Now, no matter how much I disagree with her my opinion is colored by the knowledge that she is aware of her blessings. It’s important.
Cindy Munford on May 23, 2009 at 11:23 PM
Many years ago, when I had TV, I watched a lot of Bollywood.
Always left me speechless.
Loxodonta on May 23, 2009 at 11:30 PM
I went to your site, didn’t see that, but did find your picture.
You look much more mature than I thought you were, with sort of a rugged look, reminiscent of Joe the Plumber. So, I have no idea why you would have trouble attracting women. However, it might help if you stop hanging out with that dopey looking kid you’re standing next to.
Loxodonta on May 23, 2009 at 11:34 PM
http://thesheikhdown.wordpress.com/2009/05/22/heres-to-you/#comments
Look the commenter “Kardia”
someones got a secret mirer!
blatantblue on May 23, 2009 at 11:41 PM
Me and Allah never get admired. sigh.
William Amos on May 23, 2009 at 11:43 PM
It’s why I can’t stand liberals.
Nothing is ever good enough.
They don’t understand a few things (I know you do so sorry for preaching to the choir):
1) the value of hard work
2) the fruits they can bear, and how beautiful they are
3) it isnt about them
I think the nation is facing a crisis of purpose.
My parents had a purpose when I was born — to provide me with a better lifestyle. My father lived on welfare at times when he was young, and has always wanted to provide us with something better than he had.
And there it all is.
People used to work their hands to the bone to provide for others.
I feel the focus has shifted to “me.”
That is sad in my opinion.
And with that shift, comes a devolution of gratitude.
blatantblue on May 23, 2009 at 11:44 PM
If you or anybody else your age is looking for a grandpa, I’m available.
Loxodonta on May 23, 2009 at 11:45 PM
While reluctant to stroke your ego, that’s just not true. You both are awesome.
Cindy Munford on May 23, 2009 at 11:46 PM
It’s a devolution that people aren’t happy with what they have.
Yes, I’m a tech geek. I want a new Mac laptop so f*cking badly I could lob off my left pinky for one. But I’m grateful for this dying one that I have.
People aren’t appreciative — I know its a “corny” thing to say, but I see it all the time in my peers. Everything is a f*cking issue. Nothing is good enough.
And while they babble so hard before class, whining like sweat hogs, a child in Africa is actually dying, DYING while they talk about how that “bitch said something behind my back!”
Ah well.
blatantblue on May 23, 2009 at 11:48 PM
Ditto’s for you Mr. Amos.
Beta’s for Allahpundit.
Loxodonta on May 23, 2009 at 11:54 PM
I third cindy’s comment, and lox’s seconding of said comment
blatantblue on May 23, 2009 at 11:55 PM
That depends on what you do with that focus. It’s your time and although your parents worked hard so you wouldn’t have to “work your hands to the bone”, I think they expect the intellectual equivalent. And you’ll do it, because you know the value of hard work and it’s many rewards. The trend to disparage our country for it’s mistakes instead of embracing the way it overcame them to become better is bizarre. It almost seems that when we cushion people from hard times, they have no appreciation for times that are good. But it is not in our nature to let people suffer.
Cindy Munford on May 23, 2009 at 11:55 PM
Oh no doubt, I don’t plan on being idle.
I gues sI just mean everyone is about themselves. I look back on my parents, my friends parents, and other parents and realize that what they’ve done has been about us, and it is my generations responsibility to carry that on.
For example, I have cousins in NYC. I met some of their friends who live in Brooklyn.
Her friends just went ON AND ON bashing families in the area.
“So many f*cking strollers” blah blah blah, as if kids are bad. They are in their late 20’s early 30’s, and there they sit bashing families. It is because they are so self centered, so selfish, so self absorbed and aggrandizing that the thought of actually getting up in the morning to work for SOMEONE ELSE is repulsive enough to make them puke.
All the gobbledeegook I heard that night was very foreign to my sensibilities.
blatantblue on May 23, 2009 at 11:59 PM
Don’t be too hard on them, it a phase. Plus don’t discount the possibility that were trying to impress you. I think back to the things that upset me or the things that I complained about back in my 20’s and 30’s, trust me, equally inane. I am glad that I remember though, it keeps me from busting on my kids. You probably went through it to, just at a younger age so now it seems inappropriate & immature to you.
Cindy Munford on May 24, 2009 at 12:13 AM
Perspective I guess.
When I’m having a bad day I try to think of my friend who served two tours in Iraq, one in Afgh.
He was part of the invasion of Afgh, got stabbed in a cave.
Then he invaded Iraq, came back for a second tour, IED’d and shot. Still finding shrapnel in him. He is not only an inspiration but also a perspective changer for me.
blatantblue on May 24, 2009 at 12:17 AM
Maybe they could end up in a Mexican prison. I mean you CAN’T possibly escape a Mexican prison!
Mojave Mark on May 24, 2009 at 12:37 AM
I think being in the military, especially in war time, but an entirely different light on life. Most people are not going to relate and it would be unfair to expect it. As for the shrapnel, I am sure things have changed in the last forty years, it might we working out for years. It’s odd.
Cindy Munford on May 24, 2009 at 12:47 AM
I know how Obama could solve the Gitmo problem: Release the prisoners one by one into Pakistan, then send a Predator after them to blow them up with a Hellfire missile. No more Habeas Corpus, no more trials or tribunals, and he doesn’t have to change any rules of enemy engagement he’s already using. Have Richard Dawson narrate the video download and he can sell it on pay-per-view to help pay for his health care plan. It’s a Win-Win.
Socratease on May 24, 2009 at 1:02 AM
Not to worry,Obama is President now so the world loves us to death.
Anybody trying to do harm to the Obama States of America will be immediately struck down and all countries will participate to the fullest in making sure we are safe.
Clear evidence of this is Obama’s vvvvvvvvvery important and ground breaking meeting with the leaders of Afghanistan
and Pakistan.
They promised to work together in defeating the jihadist and Pakistan promised to go after the Taliban and eliminate the threat that they posed to the free world.
Obama assured us this would work because unlike Bush,they were using “smart power” that would enable their awesomeness and incredibleness superior intelligence and expertise to bring change in defeating the jihadist.
See how well this awesomeness and intelligence used by the “smart ones” is bringing change:
Swat offensive stalls as Taliban strike outside the war zone
By Bill RoggioMay 22, 2009 6:49 PM
http://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2009/05/swat_offensive_stall.php
Pakistani Army makes little progress in Swat
Guess we are going to need another Obama photo op with these leaders so we can give the “impression” that change is happening in what Obama called “the central front of the War on Terror”.
The Long War Journal: Waziristan operation not on the horizon: Zardari
Written by Bill Roggio on May 23, 2009 9:07 AM to The Long War Journal
Available online at: http://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2009/05/waziristan_operation.php
Looks like Zardari is using the “Pelosi defense” of blaming others and lying to take the heat off himself.
Of course Waziristan is where al-qaeda has hundreds of training camps that Obama said was where “We needed to take the fight” in defeating the jihadist and bringing security to Afghanistan and preventing future attacks against America.
The Drones are not going to get it done.
The corrupt and Taliban infested government of Pakistan is not going to get it done.
Obama’s photo ops are not going to get it done.
“Smart power” is backfiring quickly on the “smart ones” and
it Mr. Paparazzi President continues to think apologizing and appeasement policies are going to work,he will be dealing with a nuclear armed Iran and Taliban real soon.
Reality sucks liberals and blaming Bush will not solve the problems the Obama administration has accelerated with Foreign capitulation and undermining our intelligence services here at home.
Baxter Greene on May 24, 2009 at 1:50 AM
But of course to keep the money flowing from the US to Pakistan,they will throw us a bone every once in awhile.
Couple of high ranking al-qaeda/Taliban jihadist here,intel on a bomb plot there.
But you can forget anything that will do serious harm to their network or their quest for the modern Caliphate:
Pakistan: We don’t believe our own intel service, either
posted at 2:15 pm on April 27, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
http://hotair.com/archives/2009/04/27/pakistan-we-dont-believe-our-own-intel-service-either/
Yea, great idea.
Let’s leave it up to the supporters and financiers of the Taliban in the Pakistani government to give the US intel that will prevent these same people from carrying out their
missions of “man made disasters” against the US.
Brilliant!!
Even the NY Times knows that Pakistan is to corrupt and aligned with the Taliban to ever do substantial damage to them:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/07/magazine/07pakistan-t.html?_r=2&ref=world&pagewanted=print
“The army agreed to compensate the locals for collateral damage,” the official said. “Where do you think that money went? It went to the Taliban. Who do you think paid the bill? The Americans. This is the way the game works. The Taliban is attacked, but it is never destroyed.
“It’s a game,” the official said, wrapping up our conversation. “The U.S. is being taken for a ride.”
So in liberal land,
leaving the retrieving of important intel from captured terrorist that could prevent attacks against America with an entity that is aligned with that very same enemy is considered “smart power”.
Obama being elected POTUS is quickly becoming an unmitigated disaster.
Baxter Greene on May 24, 2009 at 2:16 AM
I know what you mean. Living in NYC and being around people who vocally and strenuously dislike families and children tears me up; last fall my sister had to have a hysterectomy and when I told a friend how sad I was for my sis, my friend’s response was, “at least she won’t have to worry about getting pregnant”(!). The only thing that keeps me sane in this place most of the time is that I have a solid group of devout Catholic friends like me who share the same values.
Outside of that, I’d find the death-cult of greed, selfishness, and promiscuity too much to bear.
Fallen Sparrow on May 24, 2009 at 2:30 AM
Lets see…
Obama outsources doing anything about the economy to the guy who was the head of the NY Fed and a major part of the problem. Check!
Obama outsources doing anything for GM and Chrysler to the UAW and thuggish tactics against senior creditors is used. Check! (How very Capone-ish)
Obama outsources writing major ‘bailout’ legislation to Pelosi and Reid, and no one has time to actually read the legislation. Check!
Obama puts a man in as AG who let not only recommended a fugitive from justice gets a pardon, but said fugitive was also part of the OFF scandal and one of the prime architects of the Red Mafia corruption in Russia, that man is now supposed to figure out what is legal for Obama. Check!
Obama complains that the budget he didn’t do anything about, didn’t criticize, didn’t read is now leading the country into financial ruin, and outsources the blame to the previous Administration. Check!
Obama complains about Gitmo, finds that it is well run, safe, effective, and legal, and needs to blame the previous administration for his inability to understand the situation. Check!
Obama outsources telling us how wonderful the spendulus would be and can’t explain why the economic indicators are getting far worse than the ‘baseline’, and horrifically worse than the rosy projections given, and blames the previous Administration. Check!
Now Obama who has criticized rendition is using it to outsource the nasty interrogations that were previously found safe and effective to Nations that do far worse than was ever done at Gitmo or Abu Ghraib. Check!
The President doth complain far too much, understand far too little, and has hired the most incompetent staff ever to grace the White House. Period.
For a guy who is ’so smart’ and ‘the adult supervision’ he sure is a CF on choosing decent staff and taking responsibility. He needs a time out and a cookie, plus a few years in the corner with a dunce cap on with no mirrors nearby. Perhaps a cone of silence on his head. One of his criminal friends would be better at this than he is… ok, maybe not Blago but he helped Obama out, which shows how little he knew or cared about the man’s qualifications to do something other than send cash back home from the feds.
The trolls have way too much lemon juice and their friends in Congress are about to tax sweetners so they can’t make lemonaide. Good job! Lets add more taxes on during a RECESSION!! Of course that is a bit of outsourcing, too… and with Sibelius leading up the Health Care effort, just how could that go wrong? Just like Geithner!!
ajacksonian on May 24, 2009 at 6:39 AM
Uhmmmmm? Rendition spelled with an “R”. ?
DSchoen on May 24, 2009 at 6:58 AM
All of this namby-pamby handwringing over captured terrorists is going to end up getting a lot of Americans killed. Are we witnessing the death throes of a once-great Republic?
If I were in charge, we’d wring every bit of information from enemy combatants captured out of uniform, by any means necessary (the Geneva Conventions do not apply), then give them a summary hearing by a military tribunal, shoot them, and display their heads on stakes for their comrades to see. No need for a fancy prison like Gitmo.
George W. Bush had the right instincts, but should have put the USA on a war footing right after September 11th, 2001, and kept up the pressure until al Qaeda was destroyed. He let the liberals undermine the war, and paved the way for this affirmative-action President who has no idea what he is doing.
If the enemy doesn’t fear you, you will lose.
MrLynn on May 24, 2009 at 8:05 AM
Sorry your sister had to have that.
I’m continually shocked by the vanity and shallowness by some of the people there
blatantblue on May 24, 2009 at 8:15 AM
This is Obama’s version of “Don’t ask, don’t tell”.
The foreign intelligence services can use all the torture, waterboarding or whatever they want to get the information they need from terrorists, just don’t tell Obama how they got that information.
albill on May 24, 2009 at 8:18 AM
It would have been too honest to decribe this as “Obama relies on Bush plan”
drjohn on May 24, 2009 at 8:26 AM
Gateway Pundit
maverick muse on May 24, 2009 at 8:35 AM
According to Clinton administration official Richard Clarke:
“…’extraordinary renditions’, were operations to apprehend terrorists abroad, usually without the knowledge of and almost always without public acknowledgment of the host government…. The first time I proposed a snatch, in 1993, the White House Counsel, Lloyd Cutler, demanded a meeting with the President to explain how it violated international law. Clinton had seemed to be siding with Cutler until Al Gore belatedly joined the meeting, having just flown overnight from South Africa. Clinton recapped the arguments on both sides for Gore: “Lloyd says this. Dick says that. Gore laughed and said, ‘That’s a no-brainer. Of course it’s a violation of international law, that’s why it’s a covert action. The guy is a terrorist. Go grab his ass.’”
Shivas Irons on May 24, 2009 at 9:15 AM
Here’s how to solve the detainee problem:
Announce that Switzerland has graciously offered to house the detainees in a giant, lavish, Islamic chalet. Put them all on a nice big plane. (flown by remote control, of course) Include ACLU and other human rights watchdogs in a special seating section.
When the plane goes down over the Atlantic and kills everyone on board, you announce how sorry you are and take that opportunity to detail a new policy on detaining and housing terrorists; there will be no detaining and housing of terrorists. We will kill them all, on the spot.
mr1216 on May 24, 2009 at 9:43 AM
news flash
maverick muse on May 24, 2009 at 9:57 AM
Robert Gates claims that Guantanamo is “tainted” by name association, and then FAILS to point out the obvious to truly support Obama’s platform: CHANGE.
Change the name.
Change the associated meaning.
That’s what Socialists do.
Leave our unique Cuban facilities intact and performing the necessary functions OUTSIDE of the 50 states. Rename the place.
Mecca Point
whatever
maverick muse on May 24, 2009 at 10:01 AM
to go the Mancow route for emergency information
Thanks Allah now that’s stuck in my head, and it ain’t pretty.
Dr Evil on May 24, 2009 at 10:30 AM
Don’t worry Janet Napolitano is working on a new tag for rendition/sarc
Dr Evil on May 24, 2009 at 10:33 AM
As intelligent as the left insists that Mr. Obama is, he’s heading for an education in the ways of the world. Just how many thousands of Americans will die in sacrifice for Mr. Obama’s lessons are the only variables left unknown.
Griz on May 24, 2009 at 10:37 AM
The Republicans have many wedge issues Gitmo. It was a Democrat controlled Congress that wouldn’t fund the closing of Gitmo.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/24/us/politics/24gitmo.html?ref=todayspaper
Dr Evil on May 24, 2009 at 10:51 AM
The hypocrisy just keeps on coming. Somewhere George Orwell is smiling.
GarandFan on May 24, 2009 at 11:06 AM
Great movie, that was…
ladyingray on May 24, 2009 at 11:48 AM
Obama from the endless campaign trail: “Just words, just speeches”.
Obama lied, terrorists died!!!
dthorny on May 24, 2009 at 12:02 PM
By the way, more people died in Ted Kennedy’s car than in Gitmo and Guantanamo Bay, waterboarding or not.
These hypocrites are relentless in maligning the Bush administration with the COMPLIANT media in tow, that is their goal with “outing” these edited reports on terrorist’s treatment. SO what if 3 TERRORISTS had water poured on them to protect American’s? Are we that weak that we cannot inconvenience our enemies?
Remember Daniel Pearl. Remember our marine’s cut into pieces, hanging from a bridge and lit on fire.
We need to treat these animals fair?
dthorny on May 24, 2009 at 12:12 PM
When you rely on Foreign intellignece services for your Intel, they control the flow of information… what you get, and when you get it…
Because you MUST use that intel to make decisions, you therefore allow them to guide your actions, by what intel they give you…
Think Sadam and WMDs, where he fooled everyones intel agencies into thinking he had an ongoing viable program, and we relied on many of those reports to guide our decision making.
Outsourcing Intel… really bad idea.
Romeo13 on May 24, 2009 at 12:18 PM
A lot of the kids I graduated H.S. with said the same thing….many did move away, but a lot of them came back when they started having children.
ladyingray on May 24, 2009 at 12:39 PM
You people are thinking way too hard. Here’s the deal:
It’s all Bush’s fault.
Repeat, four times a day. Live you best life.
J.E. Dyer on May 24, 2009 at 1:03 PM
They are after all, Obama’s muslim brothers…and he will stand with them!
capejasmine on May 24, 2009 at 1:37 PM
Umm, we’re fighting wars on two fronts and our president has is panties in a permanent bunch over means of extracting intel from prisoners of war?
How screwed are we exactly? I suggest really screwed.
FireBlogger on May 24, 2009 at 2:12 PM
1) It IS rendition.
2) Waterboarding will look like Scout Camp compared to what some countries will do to the prisoners.
3) Now that Obama is president, liberals will sip their drinks at cocktail hour, pinky extended…and rave about how wonderful it is that Barack has made America more humane and civilized.
4) Combine that will just killing more of the bad guys in the field, instead taking them prisoner and we have a big part of the problem solved.
5) Its brilliant. I like it.
Star20 on May 24, 2009 at 4:39 PM
Interesting story. I had to laugh at the concern over what Europeans think of us, when they certainly aren’t interested in helping us close GITMO.
Can’t say that I blame them.
AnninCA on May 25, 2009 at 1:33 AM
.
.
Biden now! A moron we can believe in.
darktood on May 26, 2009 at 5:42 AM
Oh Nooooos!
gbear on May 26, 2009 at 3:52 PM
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