New RNC ad on Gitmo: “Daisy”
posted at 10:47 am on May 22, 2009 by Allahpundit
Weak on the merits, but how can you not love an ad that preempts lefty cries of “fearmongering” with footage from the most ludicrously fearmongering political ad the Democrats ever ran? I understand that the public’s concerned about bringing hardcore jihadi zombies to the U.S. — clearly, this spot is smart politics — but now that The One’s decided to hedge his moralizing about constitutional values with indefinite detention without trial for the worst Gitmo prisoners, I’m not sure what the fear is. Supermax already holds Al Qaeda bigwigs, and presumably trials in U.S. courts will be reserved only for detainees against whom the DOJ has airtight cases to minimize the risk of acquittal. The real worry, in my opinion, isn’t that someone dangerous will go loose but (a) that defendants will use their courtroom access to the media in the U.S. to grandstand and propagandize for jihadism and (b) that closing Gitmo will represent a concession to demagogues who’ve labored in bad faith for years to paint it as some sort of gulag, the better to smear Bush as a quasi-Stalin. Bob Gates acknowledged just this morning that it’s “one of the finest prisons in the world,” before quickly adding that we have to close it anyway to erase the “taint” on America’s reputation.
If Obama was the international superhero the media tells us he is, you’d think he’d use some of his powers of persuasion to remove the “taint” by defending Gitmo and explaining why it’s necessary. That wouldn’t be very Change-y, though, would it? Exit question: Isn’t the real problem here that he’s unwilling to order the building of a new prison in the United States lest the state where it’s located turn on him in the next election?
Blowback
Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.
Trackbacks/Pings
Trackback URL
Comments
Bill Moyers is going to have a cow over this one…
jon1979 on May 22, 2009 at 10:50 AM
bam
faraway on May 22, 2009 at 10:50 AM
It’s OK, Allah. I know its early and you are working overtime. I’ll let this error slide.
Joe Caps on May 22, 2009 at 10:51 AM
Bill Moyers is now helping the RNC.
WAY TO GO, BILL!!!
TexasJew on May 22, 2009 at 10:51 AM
Dopn’t forget that gangs use prisons as recruitment centers. Don’t give Muslim terrorists access to those who 1) already have nothing to lose, 2) are willing to kill, 3) are mentally unstable, and 4) have perceived (in their own minds) grievances against the US.
Not to mention, these folk aren’t common criminals, they are unlawful enemy combatants.
rbj on May 22, 2009 at 10:53 AM
I like taking the issue head on.
Closing Guantanamo never made any sense. It was a stupid position thrown up in the campaign (McCain said similar stupid things, just not quite as stupid as Obama). Gitmo has been a model prison for some time, and its roll is to hold enemy combatants. How you deal and treat those detainees is a different issue. But why waste the millions we spent building that facility to bring the enemy home to America? It is nuts.
Mr. Joe on May 22, 2009 at 10:53 AM
No, thats not the problem at all. The problem is these savages are not entitled to constitutional protections. They are not citizens, they are enemies of humanity. When their usefulness is complete, they should just be summarily hanged, in public.
The video of the execution should be played throughout the middle east. Since videos of successful attacks are in factuality the best recruitment tool the savages have, a few videos of them being executed will have the opposite effect.
dogsoldier on May 22, 2009 at 10:53 AM
Focusing on just the Supermax already holds terroritst thing… Gitmo detainees will have to be transported to and from courthouses for their trials and then transported to Supermax.
That opens up several opportunities for jihadi “rescue” missions on US soil in the midst of citizens who just happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.
myrenovations on May 22, 2009 at 10:53 AM
That’s Bill Moyers for the assistance. We appreciate it!
Mr. Joe on May 22, 2009 at 10:54 AM
I love when they argue that we if we don’t have a suitable prison to house the terrorist here, we can build one. We do have a suitable prison — gitmo.
Blake on May 22, 2009 at 10:55 AM
That’s really not a factor, since he can simply dump the prison in a Red State like Utah or Texas that he has no hope of winning in 2010 (i.e. rebuild Gitmo on Western State federal land or in the middle of a military base like Fort Hood). The problem comes from any feeling of arrogance this might cause among swing voters elsewhere if the prison was forced on some unwilling state, given the imperialism the White House already has shown towards businesses and individuals on other matters.
jon1979 on May 22, 2009 at 10:55 AM
Thank you, RNC! That is a great ad!
Loxodonta on May 22, 2009 at 10:59 AM
Lame! Unless you’re a political junkie that knows the kid with the flower petals refers to some 1960s political ad, this makes no sense. Honestly, did some 60yo come up with this “ad” — right idea, lousy execution. As the 8-ball would say, Please try again.
EasyEight on May 22, 2009 at 11:01 AM
Weak on the merits? Geesh, Allah!
Jim-Rose on May 22, 2009 at 11:01 AM
Every single one of The 0′s flip-flops should get the same treatment, maybe then those who voted for him will see exactly what they voted for.
Rebar on May 22, 2009 at 11:02 AM
Transferring them to supermax is dangerous because they can commit crimes while in prison or order crimes to be committed outside prison.
A supermax prisoner always has the possibility of being moved from supermax to general pop. It is a behavior modification system. If they obey the rules, they will earn more privileges. Eventually they can be moved to other units. The dedicated jihadi only has to bide his time.
Blake on May 22, 2009 at 11:02 AM
Politicizing our National Security who thinks this was EVER a good idea?
Dr Evil on May 22, 2009 at 11:03 AM
Speaking of going retro. How about bringing back the old Dem line used against Goldwater.
“In your guts, you know he’s nuts.”
diogenes on May 22, 2009 at 11:03 AM
Fat chance, but can’t the UN find some nuclear atoll or former leper colony for these guys? Something surrounded by water in the middle of nowhere? Fix a satellite on it, nothing can approach it without approval in advance, or it’s taken out.
Seriously, though, I’m not nearly so concerned that these guys escape as I am that the communities in which they’re housed will, themselves, become visible targets. Maybe it’s a distinction without a difference when compared to housing them at Gitmo. I think it’s great that these supermax prisons are secure, but, say, gang members held in them don’t necessarily concentrate their attention on the surrounding community, whereas, I think, terrorists would. On this theory, we might be required to concentrate considerable resources to protecting a small number of communities, taking away from the protection of the country as a whole.
I’m just spitballing, but it’s something that’s occurred to me, and I don’t see anyone talking about it. In the end, the benefit of Gitmo is having these guys out of sight and out of mind so that our national security assets can be better deployed around the country on likely targets.
BuckeyeSam on May 22, 2009 at 11:03 AM
The ACLU will blow a gasket. How dare these people make a law privatizing the pictures.
good ad. I am sure this little bundle of joy from God doesn’t want a terror cell accross the street from her playground. We need to protect our children. Last week the hate crimes law dealt a blow to her daddy if her daddy blew up a pedophile that moslested her, he woukld get hate crimes treatment.
seven on May 22, 2009 at 11:04 AM
The other problem with moving the prisoners here is that all prisons attract a certain “element” to the local area.
Blake on May 22, 2009 at 11:04 AM
Another Hollywood retread. I doubt the average moonbat will even have clue what that was all about.
Stupid.
Knucklehead on May 22, 2009 at 11:05 AM
Like, “gird your loins, you know where were goin’”?
myrenovations on May 22, 2009 at 11:05 AM
Where did this meme that Club Gitmo is a “recruiting tool” get started?
The list of jihadi attacks pre-Gitmo is as long as your arm. Marine Barracks, Cole, WTC I, Khobar Towers, 9/11, PanAm 103, Achille Lauro, and so on and so on and so on.
Obviously no recruiting tools were necessary to get terrorists to carry out those cowardly attacks.
Nat Hound on May 22, 2009 at 11:05 AM
I haven’t watched the ad yet… but that was the one thing Obama said that really did make sense. Our maximum security prisons are pretty safe.
However, what is wrong with leaving them in Gitmo? By all accounts is it perfect for the job it was built for.
The whole closing thing is beginning to be much ado about nothing. And the ado is only going to get bigger.
petunia on May 22, 2009 at 11:07 AM
He’s right about it being one of the finest prisons in the world and dead wrong about some imaginary “taint.” If they transfer them, you can guarantee they and their attys will be complaining about the conditions and the prisoners themselves will say they preferred Gitmo.
Blake on May 22, 2009 at 11:07 AM
If we are not going keep Gitmo and not going to use Yucca Mountain for its intended pupose, this can be the new prison. Think how the world will love us when we put these terrorists in their natural cave habitat. Throw in some nuclear materials in some containers that, whooops, have small leaks. Will even throw in a video camera so they can make some Jihadi videos.
WashJeff on May 22, 2009 at 11:08 AM
The logical place to put is in Alaska. It’s isolated, it’s very hard for someone to get in and get out (think Broadmoor in Britain) and the weather is inimical to most of the folks in Gitmo. Make sure they have no winter clothing, just for extra security.
njcommuter on May 22, 2009 at 11:09 AM
Hated the ad the first time around, this isn’t an improvement.
Lame.
obladioblada on May 22, 2009 at 11:09 AM
Also, didn’t we recently convict an attorney whose client was one of our vaunted Supermax terrorits because she was helping him send messages?
We might be able to keep a better check on the pro-bono sympathizer attorneys if we keep the dealings on a national security level and not a regular judicial system level.
myrenovations on May 22, 2009 at 11:10 AM
It’s not escaping that is the big threat, it seems far more likely that any district or state which takes the detainees will move right to the top of the terrorist’s target list.
Go RBNY on May 22, 2009 at 11:11 AM
In my guts I know he’s nuts… but I think there are still many guts that have tingles over the First Black thing. (Which is admittedly inspiring, but at some point you would think they will notice he’s not really all that.)
petunia on May 22, 2009 at 11:11 AM
No, that is in the Obama con-stitution.
Upstater85 on May 22, 2009 at 11:11 AM
Lets review the promise:
“I will close the Guantanomo Detention Center”
He signed an Executive Order, ordering the facility closed. Promise kept.
He never said that he would not re-open it.
Apparently, too many people read too much into the campaign promise.
[I'm not sure if this is sarcasm or not]
BobMbx on May 22, 2009 at 11:12 AM
Gotta say I love your ideas. How about this – after any useful intelligence has been extracted from these subhuman monsters, instead of death by hanging or a firing squad…burn them at the stake. With the kindling provided by a pile of cheaply-copied Korans.
Dark-Star on May 22, 2009 at 11:12 AM
Let’s face it. The biggest recruiting tools right now are Obama and his administration. Terrorists now have friends in the White House.
BuckeyeSam on May 22, 2009 at 11:15 AM
Not recently and she has yet to serve a day of her sentence. The fix is in…
Blake on May 22, 2009 at 11:15 AM
The only “recruiting tool” they need for the jihad, is the same one they’ve had for 1400 years.
The koran.
Rebar on May 22, 2009 at 11:16 AM
I watched the ad now. Makes it’s point. I’m afraid many will not even know what the first ad was about.
Really moving terrorists to prisons in the US is like a nuclear bomb? Republicans should be careful not to overreach. They have an excellent case on the merits overreaching is what Pelosi has done.
petunia on May 22, 2009 at 11:17 AM
Ya mean if they move the prisoners, to other prisons in the US, the taint will go away. Just how does that work.
There still in prison in the US.
Farmer62 on May 22, 2009 at 11:18 AM
True that.
petunia on May 22, 2009 at 11:18 AM
If you’re old enough to remember a hilarious SNL skit from 30 years ago (The Pepsi Syndrome) that was run after the spill at Three Mile Island, I might be concerned that the exposure will turn them into the “amazing colossal jihadists.”
I’ve always loved Garrett Morris’s concluding line: “Nuclear power’s the best thing that ever happened to me, baby.”
BuckeyeSam on May 22, 2009 at 11:19 AM
I wish I could say that was surprising to learn.
myrenovations on May 22, 2009 at 11:20 AM
The donks will NOT be happy until there is another attack on our soil. Then look out for the power grab of that crisis.
jukin on May 22, 2009 at 11:22 AM
Then we just role out Spectraman. He could use his karate chop laser blast from the hand to finsih them off. Cannot even imagine what could hide in the beard of a “amazing colossal jihadists.”
WashJeff on May 22, 2009 at 11:24 AM
So, show trials for only the people we’re sure we can convict? That’ll sure right our moral compass!
BadgerHawk on May 22, 2009 at 11:26 AM
The 4 would be NYC bombers arrested this week were apparently prosyletized while in prison.
Putting more hard core jihadists in American prisons will just accelerate this process.
Additionally, in standard US prisons, the jihadists will have access to communications with the outside world. Who knows what kind of mischeif that could result in.
Better to keep them isolated, where they are.
MarkTheGreat on May 22, 2009 at 11:31 AM
Our worst threat is not the slight possibility that a terrorist escapes from the supermax. The scenerio that frightens me most is a defense attorney successfully throwing out all the evidence we have, and the terrorist walks. What sort of guarantees do we have that these guys will be prosicuted? It’s not like our boys out on the battlefield our taught to be CSI investigators too.
CultureWar on May 22, 2009 at 11:32 AM
You fell for a nifty bit of misdirection from The One. The problem isn’t these jihadists escaping from prison, it’s their jihadism escaping from prison.
The terrorist wannabes just caught in NY converted to radical Islam while in prison; this is not at all uncommon. Fortunately, they were nimrods who had none of the skills required to put their new desires into effect. What Obama wants to do, though, is take the most vicious and well-trained jihadists in the world and mix them together with our most vicious and desperate domestic criminals. I can think of many things to call that combination, but “pretty safe” ain’t one of them.
Even if the Gitmo transferees serve out their life sentences, they’ll be immersed in a steady stream of other prisoners arriving, serving time and being released. And no, they won’t be segregated or kept in solitary confinement. If they’re in domestic prisons they have access to domestic judges, and sooner or later they’ll find one who insists that they be granted the full pantheon of rights that the other inmates have.
Fabozz on May 22, 2009 at 11:32 AM
America to Obama while plucking daisy petals: He loves me, he loves me not, he loves me, he loves me not…
Steve Z on May 22, 2009 at 11:33 AM
Even better, we put the jihadists in Yucca Mtn, then change our minds about the nuclear waste.
MarkTheGreat on May 22, 2009 at 11:35 AM
Since they keep predicting that the next attack on American soil will be a dirty bomb, I think the analogy fits. But, really, it is a play on the democrats 1964 ad.
Blake on May 22, 2009 at 11:36 AM
Wrong wrong wrong…
The prisoners won’t escape. Not a single one. What will happen is the courts will release them. First come the Papillion movies, then come the marchers, then come the McKinneys and Jacksons, the MSM, ACLU, and blam the courts throw open the doors. Anyone here trust the courts not to release these guys? Maybe not this year but in 2010, or 2012?
Limerick on May 22, 2009 at 11:38 AM
Good idea for cold storage of terrorists, but Sarah Palin would probably have none of it!
Better idea: Take them all to the peninsula of Antarctica, and throw them keys to unlock their shackles while the ship sails off to the north. They’ll have a whole continent to themselves!
A theological question: The Koran forbids Muslims from eating pork. What does it say about penguins?
Steve Z on May 22, 2009 at 11:40 AM
You under-estimate the timing here Jon. Barring a private construction company that uses the prefomance enhanced wage scale, no prison could be completed under an Obama bureaucracy in less than five years.
Sound familiar?
It sure seems our President has a hard time dealing with wasteful products.
Rovin on May 22, 2009 at 11:44 AM
As funny as it would be to think of the president deciding to build a new Gitmo in ANWR due to its pristine isolation amid the howls of environmentalists, my guess is they’ll have to weight the pro/con political benefits it would have for the state’s governor if they were to unilaterally force Alaska to take the terrorists (not that the Obama people wouldn’t want to screw over Palin; they’d just have to gauge what the swing voters in the other states will think about the action and if that might not help make her a more sympathetic figure for 2012).
jon1979 on May 22, 2009 at 11:46 AM
True, but there are several states with lots of land that Obama and his peeps can pretty much write off all the way through 2016. If they thought they could get away with it, they’d dump Gitmo II in one of those states in a heartbeat, even if the Democrats seeking office there would react like they had been kneecapped by Washington.
jon1979 on May 22, 2009 at 11:49 AM
I swear Jeff, I did not see your post when I posted mine at Rovin on May 22, 2009 at 11:44 AM. The thought of “leaks” even crossed my mind. Scary.
Rovin on May 22, 2009 at 11:50 AM
If you want to put them in the ground, a simple grave is cheaper.
Hopefully, we can keep them in custody until a Republican President can meet out to them the proper penalty for un-uniformed combatants under the Hague Convention.
Kristopher on May 22, 2009 at 11:50 AM
But Harry promised us no terrorist will be housed in the U.S. Jon. Surely you can take this as gospel?
Rovin on May 22, 2009 at 11:53 AM
Jihadists: What’s in those barrels?
Guard: Soap chips?
WashJeff on May 22, 2009 at 11:56 AM
Some lady named Michelle Malkin has some stories about how the prison system is already producing jihadis. Her post today mentions that the 1993 WTC bombers are in the general prison population, helping to churn out radical muslims.
hawksruleva on May 22, 2009 at 11:57 AM
Obama is the “taint” of the United States.
Star20 on May 22, 2009 at 11:59 AM
And while the ACLU is working to get them out, our former residents of GITMO will be teaching inmates about 2 things: radical Islam, and making bombs.
hawksruleva on May 22, 2009 at 11:59 AM
It would have worked in 2008. “In your heart, you know he’s Wright.” Ironic that McCain has Goldwater’s old seat, but he isn’t fit to shine his boots.
chunderroad on May 22, 2009 at 11:59 AM
This was where my thoughts were on all of this. However when I pointed this out to my husband who spent a couple of years after he got out of the army as a prison guard he made a great point to go with this line of thinking:
Aryan Nation (and others like them)Those boys aren’t going to be very happy having to share their prisons with these guys and will divert their attention from where it normally is to these guys. How long will they last outside of solitary? How many of the guards are really going to rush to their aid and going to want to be known as the guy who protected these scumbags??
I still don’t want them here. I just don’t see them lasting long if they are put in our prisons and make it into general population.
mauioriginal on May 22, 2009 at 11:59 AM
Bingo.
I mean, how do you handle a conjugal visit by a child bride?
bluelightbrigade on May 22, 2009 at 12:02 PM
Hated the ad the first time around, this isn’t an improvement. Lame. obladioblada on May 22, 2009 at 11:09 AM
Truth hurts.
luvstotango on May 22, 2009 at 12:02 PM
I dunno… maybe it’s me… but it’s not knocking a homer out of the park… still in the field area… but close to the grandstands.
CynicalOptimist on May 22, 2009 at 12:21 PM
There are already groups that hate each others guts in prisons. General pop doesn’t mean they are all together at once. They are assigned to different blocks or units. Plus, there are all sorts of strange alliances in prison. Most likely the black prisoners would side with the jihadists. I think the white gangs have the least number of members.
Also, guards don’t rush to anyone’s aid. That would get the guard killed. They just give them a warning shot and then shoot.
Blake on May 22, 2009 at 12:22 PM
Make sure there are plenty of toys in the conjugal visit room?
Blake on May 22, 2009 at 12:24 PM
The ad needs work:
The success/impact of the original ad was the atomic explosion at the end.
Simple to fix: replace with footage of a plane hitting the World Trade Center.
That’s an ad.
Lockstein13 on May 22, 2009 at 12:29 PM
Ya think?
Badger40 on May 22, 2009 at 12:38 PM
Honestly, we should just let folks like this battle it out.
Bring back Escape From NY.
Kurt Russell can kick their a$$e$.
Badger40 on May 22, 2009 at 12:40 PM
The Messiah will close Gitmo, shut down Rush’s store upholding “our” values, thus proving to the People of Peace that we are the nicest people around and don’t mind if they just wanna’ kill four million US citizens – half being children.
Afterward, the Messiah will make another nice speech – with his best friend, TPOUS – and the media, liberals, and union people everywhere will sing hossanhs, choruses of joy and wonder at His greatness.
Friendly21 on May 22, 2009 at 12:51 PM
Simple to fix: replace with footage of a plane hitting the U.S. Bank Tower in Downtown Los Angeles.
Friendly21 on May 22, 2009 at 12:53 PM
The best part of the ad is the clip of candidate Obama, arrogantly leaning back in his chair, ticking off: “Guantanamo, that’s easy…. Close down Guantanamo.”
He didn’t make it sound very easy yesterday, did he?
notropis on May 22, 2009 at 12:58 PM
We have ministered in several prisons in OK. We note that when we come into a meeting area we sometimes see arabic written on the board. We took that to mean that the muslims also evangelize in prison, but we’ve heard that it is much more sinister than that. Jesus is making “new creations” in prison, but Muhammed may be producing jihadists. In one open-air meeting I was asked about the 12th imam. I heard about that there before Ahmedinijad ever mentioned it on TV.
Christian Conservative on May 22, 2009 at 1:10 PM
Better blowdarts; that’s a thought.
That’s exactly it! It was troubling when they first opened Gitmo. Leadership would never execute the bastards as they were entitled to do. They played the liberal game of legalisms from the get-go. They needed to do interrogations and firing-squad the jihadis in the field.
Dither long enough and you get lefty shysters — game over.
Feedie on May 22, 2009 at 1:23 PM
Two birds with one stone: A federal bail-out of California, in return for housing the prisoners there. It’s win-win!
(Before someone jumps in to criticize this, yes, I am being sarcastic. Mostly.)
calbear on May 22, 2009 at 1:32 PM
Will Anderson Cooper give any coverage to Obama’s “taint” this evening?
burnitup on May 22, 2009 at 1:53 PM
I have an idea. Instead of eliminating Guantanemo, why doesn’t Obama simply do what he has done with all of the other Bush/Cheney anti- terror policies? In short, merely change the name while leaving the policies in place. This simple technique has successfully made the entire world once again love the USA and more importantly Barack Obama himself.
So here it is. A new name for the same place, doing the same things, to the same people. This name can contain none of the blatantly uncomfortible, in your face, harmfully hateful rhetoric of those obnoxious Bush/Hitler/Cheney/Haliburton yahoos. It must be senstive to our new world order. We could take suggestions. I’ll start it out: World Institution for Eliminating Cancerous Antagonistic Nincumpoops.
WIECAN (pronounced, We Can).
There you have it, problem solved. No more GITMO. Now WIECAN!!
cdor on May 22, 2009 at 2:03 PM
Heh, place them in Malibu and Marin County.
Feedie on May 22, 2009 at 2:44 PM
The spot should have ended with the burning towers. The original ended in a flash of light (presumably from a nuke) so why not?
Kafir on May 22, 2009 at 3:18 PM
You don’t get it. Goldwater was an Evil White Conservative Male so any negative campaign ad was justified. Obama is black so this is now racist.
Speedwagon82 on May 22, 2009 at 3:25 PM
What about a terrorist attack on the families of the guards at supermax? What about an attack on cars going to or from the courthouse, or simply blowing up the courthouse?
Let’s keep these people where they are. Their home countries will NOT take them back, so we are stuck with them. When their sentences are over, we would have to let them go inside America, and you can bet some liberal judge would demand it.
TimothyJ on May 22, 2009 at 3:26 PM
Exactly, very well stated. It’s just too bad many of the morons on the left and in our government don’t understand the above or none of this would be an issue!
Liberty or Death on May 22, 2009 at 3:47 PM
Has it not occurred to ANY of the left how unutterably stupid it is to take prisoners out of a state of the art high security prison in Cuba and build a state of the art high security prison over here and then move them all here? What shall we call it–Gitmo II? or Mainland Gitmo? Gitmo West?
jeanie on May 22, 2009 at 4:43 PM
Would’ve been more powerful — and more truthful than the original — had it had ended with footage of the airliners flying into the WTC.
holygoat on May 22, 2009 at 5:48 PM
Jihadi Zombies Vs The IDF Bikini Team would be an awesome movie.
- The Cat
MirCat on May 22, 2009 at 8:09 PM
The new prison will be built in Montana. Nothing you can do about two Senators, but two Representatives isn’t much of a threat.
unclesmrgol on May 22, 2009 at 8:23 PM
Ads are always blunt instruments. That´s a good ad.
el gordo on May 23, 2009 at 4:31 AM
Harry Reid is saying that he wouldn’t let ‘Terrorists’ into the US in the clip.
That’s funny.. I thought they were all unlawful combatants or mistaken persons to hear him talk about Iraq..
DaveC on May 23, 2009 at 9:48 AM
If the administration wants Gittmo closed then defy Sen. Reid and put it in NV at the Atomic testing range. They will feel at home. Mountainous area full of bomb craters to play in.
MSGTAS on May 24, 2009 at 9:50 AM