Wow: It’s time to legalize drugs, says … Tom Tancredo?
posted at 9:55 pm on May 21, 2009 by Allahpundit
Via the Cato Institute, a shocker that shouldn’t feel as shocking as it does. Because Tanc’s top priority has always been the border, it stands to reason he’d be willing to take bold measures to strengthen it. De-fanging Mexico’s narco-cartels by yanking their black market out from under them would go a long way towards making it safer, albeit not necessarily more secure. Even so, this is Sir Tancelot we’re talking about — staunch supporter of the war on terror, stalwart social con, and of course crusading anti-amnesty advocate. Watching him embrace one of the left’s pet social issues isn’t unlike watching Obama come out in favor of waterboarding in extraordinary circumstances. Which, like Tanc’s position here, would also be the correct one.
Below the news clip you’ll find an informative new promo for the Showtime series “Weeds.” At least, I think it’s informative. I’m too worn out to fact-check it. Click the image to watch.











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As much as I respected the Tanc there was “something” that always held me back from all out support of him during the lead up to 11/4/08.
Too bad folks didn’t pay closer attention to Duncan Hunter. He was just what this nation needed just when they needed it. DD
Darvin Dowdy on May 21, 2009 at 11:36 PM
There is no answer.
If it isn’t drugs, it is food. If it isn’t food, it will be something else.
upinak on May 21, 2009 at 11:36 PM
Please explain why it is your view that drug cartels would have a competitive advantage over Phillip-Morris.
JohnGalt23 on May 21, 2009 at 11:37 PM
Sorry for being silly.
Yes. The drugs you mention are incredibly destructive. I have known many young people who’s brains and bodies have been destroyed. While criminalization has lots of negative impacts, I believe legalization would result in far worse.
Loxodonta on May 21, 2009 at 11:38 PM
My last words on this topic, tonight:
Alcohol was ‘legal’ and its use ‘acceptable’ for all of America’s history until America’s prohibition attempt. When it was outlawed, the outlaws capitalized and reaped a huge reward. Not to mention the devestation it caused. The huge mistake was acknowledged and prohibition was repealed.
Illicit drugs have never been ‘legal’ and its use never ‘acceptable’ for all of America’s history (a tiny exception would be the lag-time to enact the laws necessary to make the various illicit drugs illegal as they came into existence and use escalated which is a process that still continues today as new illicit and horrible drugs spring to life).
If America were to legalize drugs and it becomes an unmitigated disaster, and it most certainly will, when the huge mistake is acknowledged and drugs are outlawed again it would be such a calamity of proportions so massive and damaging it would make prohibition look like a “Keep Off The Grass” sign in front of city hall.
There is no going back once drugs are legalized in a country this large that is so desperate for escape from our current economic and quality-of-life reality. For the few dollars put into the coffers at first, we’ll end up spending an epic amount of dollars more for addiction rehabilitation, lost loved ones, and a huge amount of lost productivity.
SilverStar830 on May 21, 2009 at 11:38 PM
upinak, faol, you two seem to be among the few here who understand the devastation. Thanks for the sanity, catch you later.
R D on May 21, 2009 at 11:39 PM
If the Republican party wants to embrace the ‘freedom’ idea, this would be a step forward.
Funny how a lot of conservatives are all for liberty and individual sovereignty, except when, you know, they’re not.
Free Constitution on May 21, 2009 at 11:40 PM
Illicit drugs have never been ‘legal’ and its use never ‘acceptable’ for all of America’s history
Um.. Cocacaine was a softdrink. Legal in the 20′s
faol on May 21, 2009 at 11:40 PM
They already do John.
Here is a short story. My Brother broke into the house my mom and step dad lived in. I was staying the night since I lived 60 miles and had worked a 12 hour day to be at work by 3 AM. He was armed and actually shot at me because I wouldn’t let me Mom or Step dad give him money for his score.
My Brothers drug dealer had given him the score without getting the money, so he came to the house and asked for it. He was also packing, but I had a larger gun… me 30.06 in your face on my property will scare the hell out of anyone and I was on the phone to the police at that moment in time. I was never cited and the drug dealer was caught in 5 minutes after he left and he is still in Jail.
Please tell me how legalizing drugs is going to make break in any different in the future then they are now?
upinak on May 21, 2009 at 11:41 PM
If you think the Kennedys are wild now…. just wait.
viking01 on May 21, 2009 at 11:42 PM
If you think the Kennedys are wild now…. just wait.
viking01 on May 21, 2009 at 11:42 P
And Carrot top.
faol on May 21, 2009 at 11:43 PM
It is time to legalize pot maybe, but all that hard sh*t needs to have a death penalty for dealers and drug treatment for users.
No tax just let people grow there own weed.
Disclaimer: I don’t partake.
I just think we could really make head way and shut down the cartels. But legalization is the last thing the cartels and the legal system want, prohibition makes it profitable for both parties.
TheSitRep on May 21, 2009 at 11:46 PM
One question I can’t just get past….
If it took a CONSTITUTIONAL Amendment to make a drug, alchohol, illegal…
How come they can make another drug, pot, illegal with just a law? In 1937? Just a bit over 20 years later?
Romeo13 on May 21, 2009 at 11:46 PM
I’m with Tancredo.
I was disappointed by Mark Levin today when he grew downright belligerent with a caller that brought up the topic. Mark raised several tired old cliche straw man arguments and made his ignorance of the subject perfectly clear. It’s ironic that a guy who probably takes several drugs for his heart problem and also brags about speeding in his bat-mobile assumes that all drugs are as incapacitating as alcohol, which isn’t the case. Alcohol is by far the worst, although I’m not an expert and there are probably other drugs that people shouldn’t use while operating machinery.
It’s also ironic that a guy that wrote a bestselling book which advocates liberty over tyranny doesn’t see to have a problem sending somebody like myself to prison for something I do in the privacy of my own home.
FloatingRock on May 21, 2009 at 11:47 PM
Your shitty parents aren’t the state’s problem. It’s not the governments job to make people responsible.
NEXT.
justfinethanks on May 21, 2009 at 11:48 PM
Hundreds of them. And I have not seen a one of them whose ass I couldn’t kick sideways.
I realize y’all up in Anchorage know something about bears, but you want to learn something about heroin addiction… come walk North Las Vegas with me sometime.
Short of them pulling a gun, I wouldn’t have to fear them at all, nor would anyone who wasn’t infirm, retarded, or a fellow heroin addict. Of course, being a heroin addict, they have probably pawned that gun a long time ago, so i don’t really sweat it.
Of course, if you had actually dealt with any real junkies, you would know that. Which tells me and all those who have dealt with them that you simply are talking out of your arse.
JohnGalt23 on May 21, 2009 at 11:48 PM
he was an adult. You farking loser.
Next on your ass, and go smoke another one there smokey.
upinak on May 21, 2009 at 11:49 PM
are you reading comments or are you going back on old shit and starting to respond due to you lack of typing skills.
KEEP UP. AND READ!
upinak on May 21, 2009 at 11:51 PM
Yeah, yeah, yeah….the old libertarian principles thing. Don’t tread on me crap. Funny how all those principles boil down to pot being the answer to all our woes. Legalize dope and America will prosper. Legalize dope and we will all be free. Legalize dope for your children’s future!
Sorry, dopers, this fella is staying on this side of the line. Keep your smoke on your side of the line. It won’t bother me a bit to know my adversaries have dumbed themselves down.
Limerick on May 21, 2009 at 11:51 PM
Glad to hear you feel that way.
So, if times haven’t changed, would you explain why before drugs were illegal, the rate of addiction was 1/3 as high as it is today, after nearly a century of prohibition?
JohnGalt23 on May 21, 2009 at 11:52 PM
An adult who apperntly didn’t have a proper moral foundation instilled in when he was young.
It’s not the government’s job to keep people from being complete losers. Otherwise they would start busting down the doors of World of Warcraft players.
justfinethanks on May 21, 2009 at 11:53 PM
I agree with Tancredo…War on Drugs is an abysmal failure.
therightwinger on May 21, 2009 at 11:55 PM
Ahh… BURN!!!
JohnGalt23 on May 21, 2009 at 11:55 PM
Hey next boi!
When did I say ANYTHING about the government taking care of him? Please point it out where I said the government was suppose to take care of it!
upinak on May 21, 2009 at 11:56 PM
keep up dipshit!
upinak on May 21, 2009 at 11:56 PM
Says who? Opiate use was widespread in 19th century America, not to mention 20th century China, where your vaunted big-business model made enough addicts to cause a revolution. Sorry, but contrary to libertarian heaven, not all laws are bad ones. For personal freedom the libertarians are willing to scarifice the principles of common good. I’m not and never will be.
Limerick on May 21, 2009 at 11:58 PM
What?
radiofreevillage on May 21, 2009 at 11:59 PM
Uh, you’re using your sob story in order to argue that more people will get hooked on drugs and and waste their lives if pot is legalized. You want the government to “take care” of keeping drugs off the street.
I’m just telling you that IT DOESN’T MATTER whether or not that is so. It’s not the government’s job to keep you from being an addict.
justfinethanks on May 21, 2009 at 11:59 PM
LOL!
FloatingRock on May 21, 2009 at 11:59 PM
I also said THIS.. why don’t you keep up you farking retard!
upinak on May 22, 2009 at 12:00 AM
Uh, I guess you admit that your sob story is completely irrelevant to the topic at hand then.
Thanks for sharing anyway.
justfinethanks on May 22, 2009 at 12:06 AM
You are either incredibly ignorant on this topic, or you are attempting a bald-faced lie.
The first drug laws didn’t exist until the 20th century, and heroin use was acceptable enough it was sold over the counter in pharmacies, and syringes were sold in the Sears-Roebuck catalog.
Do your homework.
JohnGalt23 on May 22, 2009 at 12:10 AM
Yeah, but before that America was a country of lazy drug addicts.
It’s the conservative point of view.
Or something.
radiofreevillage on May 22, 2009 at 12:12 AM
Later, dopers. Nurse Cratchet just said it is time for Poker After Dark.
Doyle Brunson/2012!
upinak…….keep the faith. We need all the friends we can get on this side of the line.
Limerick on May 22, 2009 at 12:22 AM
We already have a pretty good template of how legalizing drugs will affect society; take a look at the millions of Americans who are hooked on prescription drugs. Look at how their lives are harmed in terms of relationships and work. Look at the monetary cost in terms of a person’s health and subsequent health care.
Now, compound that by legalizing even harder substances like cocaine and watch society erode further.
The answer will always lie within the family unit; government cannot solve this problem, but it won’t stop them from trying to profit off of it.
yogi41 on May 22, 2009 at 12:27 AM
That’s almost too easy.
We can look at the retail price for cocaine and morphine (roughly translatable to heroin) on the open market, and compare it to their comparable prices on the black market. Doing so, we find that prohibition is responsible for roughly a 5000% markup (William F. Buckley’s numbers)… that is, take a $2 gram of legal cocaine, make it illegal, and (poof), through the magic of black market economics, it becomes a $100 gram of cocaine. Likewise, a $10 gram of heroin becomes a $500 gram of heroin.
Now, let us assume that American drug users spend $100 billion per year on hard drugs. (That number is probably a bit high, but it’s within the range, and a nice round number.) Some of that $100 billion dollars is paid by users with jobs, but a lot of it, let’s say $75 billion, is paid by people who have to commit criminal acts, often violent ones, to pay for their habit.
Okay. So to get $75 billion, these addicts have to commit crime worth probably 3x that amount, to account for the cost of fencing stolen goods. That means that to supply the hard drug use in prohibitionist America, there is $225 billion in crime committed.
Now, Tom Tancredo’s idea comes to fruition, and drugs are legalized. What does that mean for our society?
Well, the $100 billion currently spent on hard drugs all of a sudden turns into $2 billion spent on hard drugs, if we assume that usage levels stay the same. Further assuming that 1/4 of that use is paid for through non-criminal means, that means that $1.5 billion paid for by criminal means, requiring $4.5 billion worth of crimes committed.
That means a savings to society of $220 billion in the form of crimes that are not committed to pay for prohibited drugs..
JohnGalt23 on May 22, 2009 at 12:28 AM
See, some of us like to think about what we write, and research applicable facts, rather than telling sob story anecdotes that only prove one’s ignorance on the topic.
And that takes time.
JohnGalt23 on May 22, 2009 at 12:37 AM
It’s a valid point but I don’t think anywhere near 75% of the drug market is financed by other criminal activity like theft. I think MJ probably accounts for most of the market, (unless it’s that new drug popular at raves or whatever), and most MJ smokers are just ordinary law abiding people.
FloatingRock on May 22, 2009 at 12:44 AM
You will note, please, that I was using those numbers in assessing the market for hard drugs, which I would assume excludes cannabis. I would estimate that very little if any of the cannabis market is paid for with the proceeds of property crime.
JohnGalt23 on May 22, 2009 at 12:59 AM
On a pure freedom, smaller government argument, the drug war is a wrong. Its no different than the seat belt laws, the helmet laws, the trans fat laws etc…government being busy bodies.
However, drugs are destructive, addictive, etc. I use to be a strong supporter of the drug war, but I am seeing too many constitutional freedoms being eroded.
I have gone the other direction. Let parents enforce drug usage rules with their kids…that is no drinking age, nothing. They should be taxed no more than food. I am sick and tired of government social engineering. But with this hook. You don’t pass a drug test, no welfare…no government money. Provide drug rehab for free, as long as you remain sober. If you abuse, you can lose your kids.
Oh and, as far as seat belts are concerned…I should not be getting a stupid ticket because I didn’t click it in…
Conservative Voice on May 22, 2009 at 1:00 AM
if we assume that usage levels stay the same.
JohnGalt23 on May 22, 2009 at 12:28 AM
Please don’t make the mistake that life is static…drug usage will go up. All one has to do is look at how drinking has gone up since alcohol became legal.
With legalized drugs, it will be mainstream. 20 years ago hard liquor advertisement was limited to magazines…now its almost as common as beer commercials.
Conservative Voice on May 22, 2009 at 1:09 AM
JohnGalt23 on May 22, 2009 at 12:28 AM
You also forgot to factor in, with more usage, the more losers we have…productivity may suffer…and so the social and economic costs becomes a wash.
Conservative Voice on May 22, 2009 at 1:12 AM
indeed it was. Let’s take a look at THE OPIUM PROBLEM BY CHARLES E. TERRY AND MILDRED PELLENS , a study from the early 20th century. They estimate that for the period 1910-1919:
Please note, this included people both addicted to opiates and cocaine.
Let’s take a look at today.
According to the DEA Cocaine Page:
Even if we assume the number of heroin addicts to be 0 (which is certainly not the case), 2 million cocaine addicts represents an addiction rate far higher than in the period encompassing the passage of the Harrison Narcotic Act.
JohnGalt23 on May 22, 2009 at 1:21 AM
Fair enough. I’m perfectly willing to admit that drug use will go up under legalization.
The question is, how much?
You brought up the increase in alcohol use after the repeal of the Volstead Act. Fine. Most numbers I’ve seen estimate that the amount of liquor consumed in the wake of legalization doubled. I think that is a fair estimate for any increase in drug use.
Now, let us look at the example I gave. Rather than $2 billion in hard drugs being consumed, as a result of lower prices and lower risk associated with criminality, the amount consumed doubles, to $4 billion, with $3 billion being paid for as the result of property crime, necessitating $9 billion in property crime to pay for it.
In that case, we are still looking at a savings of $216 billion as a result of legalization. In fact, we would have to assume for property crime to go up as a result of legalization that there would be a 50-fold increase in hard drug use. now, i run with a crowd that likes all types of vices, but I don’t see that happening, and there is no evidence that it would happen.
True. But you are ignoring a couple of salient facts. First, most of the loss of productivity is in fact born by the losers themselves. We lose some tax dollars from their falloff, and pick up some additional welfare costs, but most of the productivity losses are reflected in lost income. I for one am not comfortable with providing price supports to drug cartels to protect the incomes of weak-minded fools.
Second, there is no way to get around the $100 billion dollar hole in our economy that results from increased imports causing money to go offshore. That, alongside the cost of property crime, overwhelms any costs to society incurred by increased drug use.
JohnGalt23 on May 22, 2009 at 1:40 AM
Listened to Mark Levin rip libertarians a new one this afternoon. I’ve got to read his book.
Blake on May 22, 2009 at 1:56 AM
Fine………..
……… when those of you who propose drug use in all aspect of society, especially the Executive, Legislature, and Judicial Branches of Local, State, and Federal Governments,
and it filters down to me taking my son to the supermarket and I come across you after the blood/brain barrier has been crossed………….
……………… Don’t be surprised when I use my 2nd Amendment Right to put you in your place.
Smoke up, Dude……. Enjoy your “Rock and Roll”!
Seven Percent Solution on May 22, 2009 at 2:18 AM
Of course you will, tough guy… of course you will.
JohnGalt23 on May 22, 2009 at 2:28 AM
Yeah—right. You’re going to shoot an innocent person in front on your son at a supermarket because they smoked pot…. Even a lynch mob is a better representative of justice than that, since they at least would practice a form of majority rule.
Yeah, that was, um, great… Mark Levin, who wrote a book about the greatness of “liberty”—which evidently doesn’t include the practice of freedom and liberty in the privacy of ones own home in a fashion that Mark disapproves of. In that case prison is in order.
Some “liberty”.
FloatingRock on May 22, 2009 at 2:45 AM
I’m still a fan of Levin, but his argument, which was constructed entirely of straw men, revealed his vast ignorance of the matter. For example, he’s clearly under the mistaken belief that all recreational drugs hinder reflexes and coordination just like alcohol, which is blatantly false.
FloatingRock on May 22, 2009 at 2:53 AM
The great thing about libertarians, is that no one ever takes them seriously. You’re a bunch of nutters.
Blake on May 22, 2009 at 3:01 AM
.
Neither would I, but his life would not have been made worse by the drugs being legal. There is a severe lack of evidence that there is a significant number of people who want to use drugs, who are not because they are illegal.
darktood on May 22, 2009 at 3:15 AM
I’m not a libertarian. and considering that libertarians only comprise a tiny percentage of the electorate yet around half of American’s think MJ should be legal to one degree or another, the premise that it’s only supported by libertarians is demonstrably false.
FloatingRock on May 22, 2009 at 3:18 AM
How about just doing stricter border patrolling?
Conservatives Support Business
Being able to weed people out by drug tests is very important.
Freedom is being able to get the person with an altered mind state off my streets.
Freedom is being able to choose what behaviors the society you live in will tolerate.
PrezHussein on May 22, 2009 at 3:27 AM
Freedom is locking people away for exorcising their freedom.
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH
This topic always provides excellent examples of how the left does not hold exclusive rights to the use of Newspeak, even if they do practice it with much greater frequency.
FloatingRock on May 22, 2009 at 3:32 AM
Like I said, I’m all for legalization, as long as they can’t collect welfare if they can’t pass a drug test, and kids are taken away when a parent abuses. They should provide free rehab to those who work on being sober, and they should educate people on drug use. Its amazing to me that the tobacco nazis drill smoking kills, but drugs…not since Nancy Reagan has there been much of an anti-drug PSA.
Conservative Voice on May 22, 2009 at 3:41 AM
The law legalizing these drugs should also make the the commission of a felony while under the influence of these drugs an aggravating circumstance, and thus requiring a stiffer penalty.
darktood on May 22, 2009 at 3:47 AM
I really dont see the harm in legalizing marijuana. It is less harmful than alcohol. I have grabbed people for DWI off of accidents and public intoxication more times than I could possibley remember. I have also worked plenty of cases where crack and meth addicts have stolen from their family’s time and time again (probably 80% of those charges get dropped).
You know how many people I got at accidents for being high on marijuana? Or so stoned they were a danger to themselves? Or stole from their family’s to get more? Not a one.
Also, with as easy as it is to grow the stuff yourself, a black market demand for the stuff would be practically none existant. It has the bonus of making the stuff a lot safer. The stuff you grow yourself obviously isnt going to be laced with anything else and same goes for the stuff you would buy at the store.
Legalize marijuana? Yes. Legalize the harder stuff like meth, heroine or cocaine? Hell no. It has destroyed to many lives.
SnakeintheGrass on May 22, 2009 at 3:50 AM
They should probably do that anyway, though I’d have a grace period and concentrate on people who’ve been on it a while and might be abusing it.
FloatingRock on May 22, 2009 at 3:51 AM
Anarchy is the only other option.
This topic provides excellent examples of the internet stupidity
“Cars is more deadly than drugs”
“How dare we lock people up for their behavior”
PrezHussein on May 22, 2009 at 3:57 AM
It certainly shouldn’t be a mitigating factor, as with alcohol. I don’t know if it’s still true, but over the years I’ve heard that committing a crime while drunk can result in a reduced sentence. It’s treated sort of like temporary insanity. As a result, some career criminals intentionally drink before they commit a crime, but I don’t know how common it is.
A crime is a crime, IMO, regardless of the criminals thoughts at the time, whether induced by hatred or alcohol or another drug.
FloatingRock on May 22, 2009 at 4:02 AM
Yes, if adults are allowed to legally smoke grass in their own home we’ll have anarchy. If people are allowed to smoke grass, we might as well allow rape and murder, right? If MJ is legalized, what right did we have to stop Hitler? /sarc
Let’s talk about the real world here for a minute. Do we have anarchy because people can smoke tobacco or drink coffee in their home? Why not?
FloatingRock on May 22, 2009 at 4:06 AM
Where in the Constitution of the United States of America does it give the government the right to prevent Americans from doing something stupid, such as drugs? We tried it with alcohol. It didn’t work. The “War On Drugs” has demonstrably not worked. All it has done is put citizens in the crossfire.
Being on drugs is no free pass for being 100% responsible for what you do. In fact if the government accurately informs people of the downsides of taking taxed and regulated drugs and the people who ingest these drugs then injure others it should be a signal of total disregard for the responsibility to use drugs safely. The door on the slammer is then welded shut.
{^_^}
herself on May 22, 2009 at 4:21 AM
SnakeintheGrass on May 22, 2009 at 3:50 AM
probably because they are too sedated to even try.
Conservative Voice on May 22, 2009 at 4:30 AM
BMTI.
Well, except for the last bit of snark.
Panhandling winos may be an annoyance, but they are a damn sight better than a tweaker robbing that 7-11.
Or breaking into
amy house stealingamy 32″ hi-def.soundingboard on May 22, 2009 at 4:41 AM
Conservative Voice on May 22, 2009 at 4:30 AM
Exactly.
SnakeintheGrass on May 22, 2009 at 4:43 AM
look prohibition does not work. It never has and it never will. You can make the actions while using mind altering substance extreme so that the main negative from its use are slowed or cur5tailed but you can not stop its use.
So make it so if you are drive while high 5 years in jail. you won’t have many DWH incidents. Commit a robbery/rape/murder while high tac on an extra 5 years.
Make it legal for people to get high they do anyhow. Companies can still test for use at workplaces. It will still be illegal for underaged kids etc.
Make it a life sentence to deal without a licence
test the substances in gov lab to ensure quaility
If done right legal drugs could be a good thing. And just think if the liberals are too busy getting high they won’t vote.
liberals mindset boils down to get high and get laid. that is their only concern.
unseen on May 22, 2009 at 4:43 AM
Oh, the winos are also a damn sight better than the cops kicking in
amy door with the first words out of their mouths being; we’re gonna get a nice stereo system.Asset forfeiture. Google it.
soundingboard on May 22, 2009 at 4:45 AM
And…there’s this.
soundingboard on May 22, 2009 at 5:02 AM
I could absolutely get on board with that.
Tho I would make murder a capital offense.
soundingboard on May 22, 2009 at 5:04 AM
Thats the drugs talking. Drugs want drugs legal.
johnnyU on May 22, 2009 at 5:51 AM
I really like Tancredo. Legalize it. Beef up border and port security. Crack down on radical Islamists here. Too bad he’ll never become President.
NorthernCross on May 22, 2009 at 7:13 AM
I have never heard of a criminal intentionally getting himself intoxicated in order to get a reduced sentence for a crime he intends to commit. Generally, when it comes with capital crimes, the first thing they’d be thinking about is how to get away with it.
Besides, juries really, really, really hate insanity defenses. People just don’t like excusing a wrongdoer simply because there’s something wrong with him.
NorthernCross on May 22, 2009 at 7:20 AM
-
Ditto… Except, let’s give the smaller dealers one single chance to get out of the biz after they are caught. Perhaps a public square water boarding session to get them thinking.
-
RalphyBoy on May 22, 2009 at 7:24 AM
The ONLY reason legalization of marijuana is even being discussed right now is how much in TAX MONEY the government can make. That’s it, that’s the bottom line.
Politicians have been discussing everything from tax on soda’s to taxing you on the miles you drive to raise revenue. Once they realized the market for marijuana and just how much they can get…. well, it was a no brainer (for them) to discuss legalizing it and making some easy $$
ladyhawke53 on May 22, 2009 at 7:24 AM
It is the minorities and poor that will suffer. There is a beer keg in every low class neighborhood. But, we think we know what we are doing. Why, would this be different.
We would just give minorities another reason not to pursue their life, liberty and the pursuit of hapiness.
Sometime winning just means fighting the war.
tomas on May 22, 2009 at 7:26 AM
what? China obviously has a dictator. same as north korea…a communist dictator…there are no free elections there.
we sure prop up the chinese. and we don’t have to prop up the saudis, we could drill for our own oil…but we won’t.
right4life on May 22, 2009 at 7:46 AM
proudly so!!
right4life on May 22, 2009 at 7:48 AM
This guy was my Rep. he was all over the map on issues. You just could never guess how he would come out on anything. He also loves the camera and microphone
KBird on May 22, 2009 at 8:25 AM
One could outlaw video games and television too if the aim was to help a lower class stop wasting time.
I’d be less concerned about those getting high than those affected by the drug trade, where corners are run by dealers, neighborhoods are unsafe because of violence and drug dealing is the biggest industry with the most jobs for teenage boys.
dedalus on May 22, 2009 at 8:32 AM
They are unsafe because of drinking too much to and guns. Things being legal didn’t stop crime from happening.
Both those things should be legal…maybe, all. But, things won’t be better that is for sure.
That arguement is one for quitters.
tomas on May 22, 2009 at 8:42 AM
I love that Tom Tancredo always says what he believes regardless of the backlash.
Legalize pot.
Bomb Mecca.
You have to admit he’s not your average politician.
Disturb the Universe on May 22, 2009 at 8:51 AM
The first federal anti-drug laws appeared after the initial work done to get the food and drug purity act passed. That required basic labeling and compliance with ingredients listings, those things that are now on every foodstuff sold in the US. That is a great boon to the citizenry and once people saw how much cocaine, heroine and other drugs were in their drugs, wine, and foods, they began to buy other goods without those adulterations. Just as America started with a hard liquor society with little in the way of beer and even less wine, the attitudes of Americans shifted and continues to do so, and the volume of alcohol is now in low density forms of beer: our hard drinking ancestors thought nothing of putting a pint of whisky to good use to soothe their aches and pains… which would get most modern Americans passed out in no time at all.
We never did let that great good of knowing what you ingest and imbibe teach us about ourselves and our health so we could make rational decisions, as the Shanghai Conference came back with signatories who agreed to stop the opium trade. Instead of letting adults understand what these drugs do, and have them analyzed and refined for proper measuring to understand their impacts, we demonized them and drove them underground. We did that to the survivors of the civil war who did not have anything else to go after their war wounds: they were addicts and the pain of such rough surgery would have meant an early death for many. What happened in that era that, by our modern standards, was inebriated and drug addled? They built the great industrial cities, spanned the Nation with railroads and spread like wildfire across the wilderness.
There were mothers that used laudunum on their children freely, yes. Never in the numbers that the demonization indicated. There were also drunks addicted to ‘demon rum’ and we still have those today! Except that its far more distilled stuff today than it ever was. The view of that era, outside of the hatchet wielders, was that such addiction was a flaw in moral character or a necessary way to address the sort of harsh life without anti-biotics, without anti-fungals, and without public sanitation that was the lot of Americans of that era.
If you do not like how the federal government can intrude on abortion, then the beginning of that is NOT abortion, but the intrusion of the federal government in deciding what is and is not legal for individuals to use as medications. In that era it was seen as a set of laws to enforce public morals… and that is not the role of government. To get to modern, highly intrusive government that feels a great and pressing need to take over car companies, you must start with the view that it is a great ‘good’ of the government to take the liberty of decision away from adults. That was not the role our Founders would condone, save on the State and local basis where the flexibility of local concerns would allow for vast differences in how societal ills were viewed.
As others mentioned, legalizing does not cure the ill of narco-syndicates or, increasingly, terrorism. Hezbollah demonstrates this fact perfectly, and they are one of the most business astute terrorist organizations on their external component that I have ever run across. They made over $1 million per month in the USA on one scheme alone. What was it? Avoiding cigarette taxes by shipping untaxed cigarettes between States. Total cell size was about 5. The $1 million/month was after taking out costs for food, fuel, original purchase, etc. It was in *profit*. So the idea of ‘legalize, regularize and tax hell out of it’ does not work because of the acument of terrorist organizations not to speak of gangs, like MS-13, doing the same.
That, to me, is a null argument for defunding terrorists and gangs in the narcotics trade. If it doesn’t work with cigarettes, it won’t work with narcotics.
Second up is ‘freeing the producers’ who are under the gun from narcotics syndicates, gangs and terrorists. So, just who has the money to buy the land, pay for crops and get them processed? Not the farmers… so we are left with the now very rich narcotics syndicates having a ‘front organization’ to legitimize their profits which can then be ploughed into other areas… say human trafficking, white slavery, or gun running. That has been a lesson looking at the Albanian diaspora and how the Families of Albania now have a whole swath of external, western crime under their control via immigrant communities. The Millenial Bomb plot goes right through that set of syndicates as they facilitated the movement of al Qaeda operatives and supplied the one to do the bombing… this does not point to an easy set of organizations to uproot just by legalizing narcotics, and depending on the Nations they are in, may actually make them harder to get rid of due to the money laundering and purchasing of corrupt politicians.
Third are the already legitimate fronts used by organizations like Hezbollah to launder goods, money and facilitate the movement of goods between Nations. Opening a grand piano from S. America in St. Petersburg, Russia, revealed a huge cache of cocaine shipped by Hezbollah to Russia. Hezbollah has gone so far as to buy into shopping malls in S. America… not the traditional venue of a terrorist organization, and yet the logistical supply chain allows for so much to be passed with little oversight that it isn’t funny. Just as the Mafia bought into casinos, so, too, do other organizations move into ‘white’ businesses for dark reasons.
Imagine Mexico where the drug gangs, suddenly having LEGAL goods north of the border demand that NAFTA be followed so they can properly export them… and then put their money not into guns but into purchasing politicians. They do this already, of course, but the overhead cost of protection and intimidation against other gangs shifts, as it did with the Mafia, to market segment purchase via political means. If even half the money spent on arms and equipment goes to that, the Mexican State would be under seige as the criminals buy the place out from under the people. An argument can be made that they might do a better job *running* Mexico, but the concept of human liberty and freedom would be tossed out the door with criminals in charge. It is already difficult to prosecute the criminal element in Mexico… who would stop them once they bought the means to remove that threat? And it would not change the nature of their organizations one bit.
I can and do make a stand for basic human liberty, and getting the federal government out of my life. To do that we need to help our friends and allies who will follow our lead to go after the criminal element that will have a dwindling input of ready cash, but have a large cash reserve to expend towards other means. And some organizations, Hezbollah as an example, but remaining elements of FARC and other terrorist groups, stand to have a steady profit by this unless they are confronted full-on and across-the-board. The high cost in lives and liberty of enforcing morality is steep: we either pay immediately by putting those selling impure drugs away and those wanting them into incarceration for long periods of time which is a societal ill to have so many incarcerated for crimes, at the end-user level, which is against themselves; or we pay the hard time, effort and lives to recognize that the cost of human liberty and trying to thwart it where the individual should have supreme control of themselves is one that has been misguided and we are willing to pay the piper to help counter the super-charged criminal elements and terrorists that are threatening societies on a global basis with the cash from this trade.
And as, in this twilight struggle of civilization, we find ourselves opposed by those living off our penchant for moralizing and use those funds to destroy not only our society but all societies, we must put the cost of the internal problems of drugs against the cost of having societies and Nations to protect us. Then ask if we can use our great gift of charity to find ways to help those addicted and thus lessen their burden, as is our responsibility as members of society, and NOT hand it over to government to do in an awful fashion for us. I am far more willing to pay, in charity that is run well, than to government that is run with great overburden and not so well, to address the ills of society: that is my responsibility as being a member of society and supporting liberty and freedom. But then, no one likes that view, these days… it means seeing yourself as a responsible member of society and not asking government to do for you what you should be doing for society.
ajacksonian on May 22, 2009 at 8:51 AM
The federal government should quit a lot of things it is engaged in. It is too big and consumes too much of GDP.
dedalus on May 22, 2009 at 8:58 AM
Well, what ever you are, you are a nutter. And if half of America really thought MJ should be legal, it would be reflected in it’s state laws, which have the power to minimize the penalties for possession. But, yeah, it’s the libertarians or those who pretend they are not libertarians who go on and on about legalizing drugs. It’s not going to happen.
Blake on May 22, 2009 at 9:13 AM
All drugs should be legalized.
Not because I think people should do drugs but because “the dope game” has been glamorized by the money involved and that is what draws many into drugs which once they start it, a known cycle results even thou no one admits it applies to them until they reach the latter stages.
1)Try it, 2)occasional user, 3)weekend warrior, 4)every time go out required to party/have fun, 5)every night, 6)some during day to help the day, 7)all day all the time, 8)have to have it, 9)jail/death.
Their is no glamor in drugs contrary to current Hollywood impression. Drugs used to be legal back in the cowboy days and if you notice the midget that always lived under the local pubs porch and cleaned for the tender. In reality that midget was a normal person but a dope head, and because of that he couldn’t get up past the point of living under the pub porch doing this or that sh*ty job for the coins to get into the poppy tent.
When the only people the children see using/associated with drugs is the users & addicts drug use will collapse. The addicts don’t have fine ho’s and pimp rides, they just have ate up junky/ho’s & worn out off brand nikes.
Legalizing would take the money away which would also have the other benefits of:
-taxable (the sin tax could be heavy 50% easily and the final product would still be far cheaper than the street version, that tax could be put directly into drug rehab/treatment/anti-drug education efforts to further drop the use numbers)
-legit business people making the money, (no more cartels, farc, on international scale and local dealers terrorizing urban neighborhoods into silence or even anti-police attitudes).
-gutting the gangs revenue stream (a huge crime drop will be seen with their financial collapse ho’s, robbing, and strong arm, just don’t bring in the bacon)
-gutting the many illicit international groups FARC, AQ (partially), Cartels, Cuba, Narco terrorist, etc…
-violent crime drop off substantially(a surprising percentage of armed robbery, shootings, etc… especially the home invasion type are a direct result of dealers being robbed, disputing, or attempting to collect drug debts)
-Massive drop in Prison population
In the first generation their probably will be an uptick in use but the following generations seeing the results and nothing but the users and “the man” CVC, Eckerd, Wallmart, etc… making the money, then will begin the long tick down in use.
Our modo for everything should be simple:
“America is founded on FREEDOM, Every American has the Freedom to succeed &/or Freedom to Fail, it is YOUR responsibility to choose your path”
C-Low on May 22, 2009 at 9:14 AM
I agree. We proved this once, check out the 18th and 21st amendments to the Constitution. Prohibition NEVER works. The only thing it does is enrich organized crime, making them stronger and deadlier.
Meanwhile, we piss 460 billion a year into a black hole.
The temperance fanatics, like many libturds today, screamed to the rafters that we would destroy ourselves if liquor was legalized.
Did their predictions come true? No, No they did not. A few people drink to excess and wreck their lives. We cant stop that.
If drugs are legalized, the same thing will happen. The same people determined to destroy themselves will do so. Those who use casually will not be criminals and the criminals making millions will be out of business, just like what happened after prohibition.
And we will stop spending money to defend prohibition II.
dogsoldier on May 22, 2009 at 9:24 AM
Sorry, guys these drugs are can affect many other people than just drinking. They are much more pervasively destructive in nature.
The costs will transfer…they wont go down.
tomas on May 22, 2009 at 9:35 AM
It has been, which is why Marijuana has been de facto legalized in places like L.A. and Denver. If you live in LA, you can be a perscription for “insomnia,” walk over to your local dispensery, pick up your pot, and smoke up completely legally in your home.
Really? Can you remember the last time we got reports of congrssmen, assemblymen, and Governers all addressing the issue seriously?
And let me remind you we currently have our THRID PRESIDENT IN A ROW who smoked pot in his youth, and yet the American Public didn’t seem to care any of those elections. And he’s the FIRST who openly admitted it without trying to dodge the question. (Don’t take this as an Obama endosement, just a sociological overservation)
We’ve reached a tipping point, mostly because so many boomers and younger people have tried it at least once or twice, and older voters who are more hostile to drugs are slowly dying off. Frankly, I’ll be shocked if at least handful of states don’t have it legal by 2020.
justfinethanks on May 22, 2009 at 10:26 AM
Forbidden fruit is always the sweetest. However, if legal, there will be fools that go overboard. My question is whether those broken lives will cost me as a taxpayer more than the war on drugs does.
Also, I believe booze is the most dangerous drug of all. It costs us plenty in prisons, hospitals, lost work, broken families. If legalizing drugs increases crimes, we now have conceiled handgun permits so junkies better watch out who they target for crime.
As of now, I lean toward legalizing pot because when you run out, you don’t self distruct like with H or coke. Stoned people are usually more docile and better drivers than drunks. ?But, when theese fools get drunk and stoned at the same time, things could get ugly.
saiga on May 22, 2009 at 10:37 AM
Tancredo doesn’t impress me. Still vote no on drug legalization. Keep swinging, AP. At least you can stir up the air around home plate.
SKYFOX on May 22, 2009 at 11:49 AM
The long and short of it is the war on drugs has been no more sucessful than prohibition. The only difference is the violence in on the streets of Mexican cities instead of Chicago and New York. I say legalize marijuana and free up the assets to go after cocaine and herion.
TrickyDick on May 22, 2009 at 1:39 PM
Intellectually I can entertain the argument that nations more draconian than we will ever be have never been able to completely stifle the drug trade, and so the war on drugs is pointless, unless we take the money out of it. Think about it. Why isn’t everyone a drug addict? Is it because we can’t find drugs? Everybody knows somebody, that black sheep uncle, who knows where to get drugs, but very few of us use drugs. People don’t use drugs for moral reasons, and not because it’s illegal.
DFCtomm on May 22, 2009 at 3:34 PM
.
Actually they are pursuing life, liberty, and happiness.
They are not pursuing achievement, and wealth.
darktood on May 22, 2009 at 6:01 PM
Not this tripe again…
JohnGalt23:
Simple: For the same reason Phillip Morris would kick their asses if the cartels ever tried to move into Tobacco.
They are experienced, have contacts, and already have the best land staked out.
Honest ventures can’t compete with that.
Any more questions?
Easy.
Because rough numbers are a rather inaccurate and foolish way of measuring ANYTHING.
The POPULATION of the planet was hardly 1/3 of what it is now in 1900, and this was before the advent of the automobile, mass-transit, reliable aircraft, or the internet.
Which means you are using a straw argument: more people= more drug users= (given the flawed methodologies of studies) a higher rate of use.
What you SHOULD be looking at is PER CAPITA use.
And keep in mind that even in 1900, this was STILL a problem.
And you wonder WHY? Because goons, cartels, juntas, and enemies tended to USE their sales in the West to cause trouble abroad. Hell, we actually had to dispatch the USAAC to Colombia to prevent one particularly potent group from overthrowing the government, and for a time it looked like we would actually have to go in and fight a full-dress war.
This is what you are not noticing, and this is why NO blanket legalization can take place UNTIL THE CARTELS ARE REDUCED TO IMPOTENCE!
Free Constitution:
There is a difference between Freedom and Liscense, knave.
PARTICULARLY when that Liscence helps finance the scum of the world.
ajacksonian:
THANK YOU!!!!!
THIS is what I have been saying all along: the main threat from legalization does not come from the damages it does to those who use it, it comes from WHO MAKES AND SELLS THE PRODUCT.
Right now, drug money is financing Hugo and his proxies, the Taliban, various Asiantic Triads and the Yakuza, Mexican drug cartels, Latin American warloards, and your garden variety criminal gangs.
They have had the market cornered well before legalization, and as things stand now, legal competition will probably be pushed to the side or run out of business.
AFTER they are gone or reduced to impotence, THEN we can talk about legalization.
But not until then.
Lest the blood of hundreds of thousands of innocents be on our hands.
Turtler on May 23, 2009 at 3:52 AM
It is wrong to characterize this only as a pet issue of the left. That the left is for legalization is incidental. There is an argument for legalization based on an understanding of how markets work (an understanding which is beyond the left).
I do not think society would be better off with legalization, but reasonable people can make that argument.
el gordo on May 23, 2009 at 4:20 AM
dogsoldier:
For somebody who enjoys pulling Prohibition comparisons out of their butt, you certainly can’t grasp much of the underlying factors.
So, how does denying a criminal organization markets and forcing it UNDERGROUND make it “stronger and deadlier?”
Perhaps the most deadly operation by a drug cartel was the 1925 attempted coup by the “Poppy Cartel” of Colombia, which was so powerful that we actually had to send the Air Force in to work with the Federales to disperse the revolt, and for a while it looked like even THAT wouldn’t be enough.
And the Poppy Cartel got its money from LEGAL sales throughout the West.
You were saying?
If we’re going to do it, we might as well do it while pissing billions of nacro dollars down the tube as WELL.
That way, at least while we are getting screwed, so are the tthugs (as opposed to social pyramid schemes that only weaken us).
And they were wrong back then, and they are probably wrong now.
However, that will be cold comfort to the Mexicans or those living in the Southwest when the Cartels are STRENGTHENED by an influx of drug money.
True, but what about those living abroad who had their lives WRECKED FOR THEM by goons pumped up with drug money from abroad?
In this much, you are correct.
BZZZZTTTTT!!!
Wrong.
What happened when Prohibition ended was that the pre-existing networks of legal breweries were opened back up and put back in business. The superior experience, contacts,and ability of these legal brews literally washed away the market for “hooch” made by inept, inexperienced, and disorganized criminals due to the superior quality and marketing of the legal brands.
This is not the case here.
In this case, the CROOKS have the high ground on the issue, and given their noted habits, it is probable they would merely wash away any inexperienced legal upstart or simply intimidate them out of the market.
And that is inexcusable.
If you wish to piss your life away, that is your right and business.
But what ISN’T your right is to piss away some poor Mexican or Guatamalan’s life because your drug habit puts bullets in the chamber of the AK-47 the Cartel will use to blow that poor individual’s brains out.
Don’t like it? Tough. Deal with the Cartels, and THEN we will talk.
And we will open the floodgates to a deluge of black marketeers with AKs who will use the funds they get here to murder, rape, and oppress closer to home.
Turtler on May 23, 2009 at 4:30 AM
Turtler,
You seem to base your entire argument on legalization being a boon to drug cartels, of which you seem pretty confident.
You say in response to someone wondering how a Mexican drug cartel can compete with Phillip Morris:
Yes. Do illegal drug cartels have contacts with the drug stores and bars that would be selling drugs if they were legal?
Can you point out to me the great land that drug producers currently use, and tell me how it compares to the vast swaths of farmland across America that aren’t currently used to grow drugs because it’s illegal and the owners don’t want to go to jail?
Do you really think it’s that hard to grow drugs, and that if there was any expertise that cartels have, it couldn’t be quickly surpassed by scientists and farmers here who would actually be able to research the subject without fear of going to jail? It seems to me most of the cartels’ expertise is on how to grow and distribute an illegal product, not a product in particular.
Can we agree that profit margins on growing drugs would be vastly lower than they are now if drugs were made legal? Do you think that might make it less desirable for for cartels and gangs to be in the business of selling drugs?
What’s the difference?
Also, I don’t know where the 1/3 of the rate of addiction stat another commenter wrote of comes from, but I’m pretty sure that by saying rate, that refers to percentage, or per capita. I could be wrong, though.
scotta on May 23, 2009 at 12:18 PM
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