Quotes of the day

posted at 10:35 pm on May 21, 2009 by Allahpundit

And then [McCain] got acerbic: Cheney, he says, “believes that waterboarding doesn’t fall under the Geneva Conventions and that it’s not a form of torture. But you know, it goes back to the Spanish Inquisition.”

***
OBAMA’s PLAN:(quotes below)
1) Try criminals in Federal courts
2) Military Tribunals
3) Release ones ordered released by courts
4) Transfer as many as possible to other countries
5) Hold really bad guys until we can figure out how to hold them w out trial indefinitely by legal means

BUSH’S Sept 6, 2006 PLAN: (quotes below)
1) Transfer as many as possible to other countries
2) Try criminals in Federal courts
3) Military Tribunals
4) Beg Congress to figure out how to hold the really bad guys without trial indefinitely by legal means

***
It was precisely to avoid the kind of moral dilemma posed by rendition that Gitmo had been created in the first place, and why the so-called “torture memos” had been drafted. Far from looking for a way to unleash the CIA and other interrogators, Bush officials and lawyers had focused on reining them in even as they recognized that an unprecedented global conflict like the war on terror required some rethinking of old rules.

All this was ignored as the Gitmo myth took hold. That myth had crystallized around two assertions: First, that Bush administration rules had made torture routine at Gitmo and elsewhere; and second, that the very existence of Gitmo was counterproductive to the war on terror and undermined our image abroad…

The final verdict on Gitmo rests on whether one believes the claims of the terrorists and their allies, or the evidence presented by the Pentagon and other official investigators. Where President Obama stands on this question is still unclear. At times, he has shown pragmatism in conducting “the war on terror” (although he has banished the term from the official lexicon). At other times, he has been willing to use anti-American sentiment to his own advantage. By feeding the media with selective leaks of interrogation memos and by publicly contemplating legal action against former Bush officials, he is able to devalue George Bush’s accomplishment in making us safe after 9/11. This helps burnish Obama’s own reputation—while implicitly paying obeisance to Ratner, Soros, and others who have distorted American public perception of why and how the Bush administration fought the war on terror in the way it did.


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“Nothing can stop the SPANISH INQUISITION!”

Bishop on May 21, 2009 at 10:38 PM

Allah, I know you’re a busy dude… but any replies to my comments on the Beckel or Beck posts?

RightWinged on May 21, 2009 at 10:41 PM

The Spanish Inquisition is what we have now. Sarah Palin will be the first burned at the stake for not worshipping the Messiah.

technopeasant on May 21, 2009 at 10:44 PM

I didn’t know they had plastic wrap during the Spanish Inquisition.

Splunge on May 21, 2009 at 10:44 PM

“All this was ignored as the Gitmo myth took hold. That myth had crystallized around two assertions: First, that Bush administration rules had made torture routine at Gitmo and elsewhere; and second, that the very existence of Gitmo was counterproductive to the war on terror and undermined our image abroad…”

Thank you Democrat Party of the United States of America……

Seven Percent Solution on May 21, 2009 at 10:46 PM

How can Jed Clampett think that Cheney speaking out on the importance of national security and setting the record straight “is not helpful”.

But yet, sending Ellie Mae out there to make a complete fool of herself and degrade the party of your choice is helpful?

sherry on May 21, 2009 at 10:48 PM

I’ve said it about Bill and Hill and I will say it now about Dumbo.

When faced with a decision about what was good for George Bush or good for the country. Bush could be relied on to select what he thought was best for the country. He was not always right, but his heart always was.

The Clintons and the Messiah will always choose what is best for them, the country be damned.

conservnut on May 21, 2009 at 10:50 PM

Geez, what a good job by Scott.

drjohn on May 21, 2009 at 10:54 PM

Ugh. I saw a bit of The Mac and Greta Show tonight and I was immediately reminded of why he was such a hopelessly poor candidate. And his attempt to compare what happened during the Inquisition to the relatively benign techniques we employ reminds me that he was a poor student at the Naval Academy.

But it occurs to me that there is one question I haven’t heard anyone ask:

If water boarding is so ineffective and we learned zero, zip, nada from it, why did we do it over a period of 8 years? If it wasn’t getting results, wouldn’t we have given up? Surely if the goal was nothing more than to make these barbarians suffer out of revenge, to “torture them”, we could have come up with something far more intolerable than water boarding.

Buy Danish on May 21, 2009 at 10:55 PM

With the Libtards in power they are going to make up rules as they go along. To hell with any consequences from there actions all that is important to them is wielding power. Just look at the president.

Tommy_G on May 21, 2009 at 11:08 PM

These are the choices the democrats have:
1. You can execute them because they make war on civilians in violation of the rules of the Geneva convention; i.e. do not wear uniforms, do no carry their weapons openly, and target unsuspecting, innocent civilians with concealed car/truck bombs, committing mass casualty attacks against unarmed civilians.

2. You can confine them until cessation of hostilities, and a peace treaty is negotiated. You CAN NOT try them in court for criminal acts, because you grant them POW status.

3. You can try them in criminal court, and under the rules of evidence, you have to dismiss charges, and release them.

So democrats, whats it gonna be, since you are in charge, now; execute them, confine them until peace happens, or release them. You get to choose. Any time you are ready. Just step right up to the microphone, and announce to the world, what you have decided to do. Whenever you want, take as long as you need…form a committee, have a meeting, stall, waffle, shuffle your feet, pass the buck, hold a press conference to tell us you’re working on the problem. Have some more meetings, form more committees, get the committees funded, argue over how much to spend on the committees, and what they will investigate…waffle some more, have some more press conferences, write op-ed pieces in the NYT. Consult legal scholars, read book, take a poll, try some words out on focus groups..go on a listening tour..

Skandia Recluse on May 21, 2009 at 11:11 PM

What happened to:

0) Battle field executions

???

That seems like the most effective plan to me.

bitsy on May 21, 2009 at 11:12 PM

Buy Danish on May 21, 2009 at 10:55 PM

Furthermore, it isn’t even

“waterboarding.”

It’s “waterPOURING.”

We aren’t going Japanese style on these sub human scraps of filth.

We’re doing POURS. We aren’t filling their lungs with water either (cloth and plastic wrap prevents it).

blatantblue on May 21, 2009 at 11:13 PM

Where President Obama stands on this question is still unclear.

If you are looking for the explaination for something, first look to the simplist explanation, as it is probably the correct one.

On all items, whichever way he thinks will make him look best, hence all the backing and filling trying to find it, as it is rather elusive.

Does anyone really think he gives a rat’s arse, one way or the other, about the prisoners at Gitmo or the rule of law?

MB4 on May 21, 2009 at 11:14 PM

OMG!!

Hey Allah… can I change my nake to “Option zero”

Puuuhhhhleeeeeze.

/I’m not brunk. Seriouslt ofizer. I sber.

bitsy on May 21, 2009 at 11:14 PM

Oh give me a break…

Obama’s plan is simple…drag your feet until the courts give you the excuse to turn ‘em loose. His hands-will-be-tied and all that rot.

Limerick on May 21, 2009 at 11:18 PM

Limerick on May 21, 2009 at 11:18 PM

Then they can concentrate on sending our cops and soldiers to f*cking sensitivity training camps — so they can learn about bisexual, Muslim, half black hermaphrodites that are blind in one eye.

Sorry. Just a bit pissed after watching “Taken.”

blatantblue on May 21, 2009 at 11:21 PM

blatantblue on May 21, 2009 at 11:21 PM

Did I add the other half is white, persian, and venezuelan?

blatantblue on May 21, 2009 at 11:22 PM

Okay, AP, I’ll take this as a “no comment”.

RightWinged on May 21, 2009 at 11:22 PM

And then [McCain] got acerbic: Cheney, he says, “believes that waterboarding doesn’t fall under the Geneva Conventions and that it’s not a form of torture. But you know, it goes back to the Spanish Inquisition.”

This is all a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
- Shakespeare

MB4 on May 21, 2009 at 11:29 PM

It’s as if it is all being distorted by the media for some specific political purpose?!?!

Bush does [A] -means [A] is BAD.

Obama does [A] -means [A] is now GOOD.

Look for nervous breakdowns in the MSM figure-head-ocracy.

So much unreality is disorienting.

profitsbeard on May 21, 2009 at 11:33 PM

blatantblue on May 21, 2009 at 11:21 PM

Did I add the other half is white, persian, and venezuelan?

blatantblue on May 21, 2009 at 11:22 PM

Sink me. This is not going well. I have been trying to couch you on how better to charm the ladies and I arrive only to find you carrying on a conversation with yourself.

PercyB on May 21, 2009 at 11:34 PM

The Obama administration has made it clear that they will obstruct,cut-and-paste,and suppress any information that refutes their “Bush was a war criminal”.

Obama goes on and on about not looking in the past while he continuously blames Bush for everything.

Obama crows about seeking the truth,being transparent,and wanting all the facts on the table while he suppress memos requested by Cheney and Hofstra that refute their accusations. The democratic congress refuses to investigate the leader of the House for lying over and over to the nation:

(via drudge)

House rejects probe into Pelosi CIA claims

May 21 12:48 PM US/Eastern
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D98AOBGO0&show_article=1

WASHINGTON (AP) – House Democrats on Thursday defeated a Republican push to investigate House Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s claims that the CIA misled her in 2002 about whether waterboarding had been used against terrorism suspects.

Pelosi told reporters this month that she had not been told that waterboarding had been used against terrorism suspects, even though it had been.

According to democrats, the leader of the House calling our intelligence agencies liars,getting caught lying to the country on National television,is just a distraction.

That’s right,Republicans created this distraction by making Obama release memos concerning EIT’s that democrats were for before they were against and somehow forced Pelosi to tell lie after lie after lie.

liberal pretzel logic at it’s worst.

The Republicans need to hammer Mr. Hope and Change hard on his lies about transparency,demand to know what they are hiding and why they are so afraid of the truth.

Every time Pelosi shows her face,hammer her on her lack of accountability,lack of proof to back up her claims against the CIA,and demand to know how someone who claims to want to clean up “the swamp” can credibly hold that position while she has lied to the country and blocks all investigations into the democratic corruption in her House.

Obama and his far left base have bragged for years about how much smarter and ethical they are.

“Smart Power” has been nothing but words so far with no results,solutions,or real support from our Foreign allies.

Transparency,accountability,and getting to the truth has become nothing but a joke from the administration that pushes through trillions of dollars in bills without reading them and suppresses information that does not fit their political narrative.

Republicans on the Hill should declare this open season on
this lying,corrupt,band of idiots that make up the democratic party.

Baxter Greene on May 21, 2009 at 11:41 PM

PercyB on May 21, 2009 at 11:34 PM

Left to my own devices — surely a pathetic scenario!

I suppose I should sweep them off their feet one at a time.

blatantblue on May 21, 2009 at 11:43 PM

Lawfare.. It’s Fantastic!

DaveC on May 21, 2009 at 11:44 PM

Seriously, let the record show that Allah is either not too bright or deliberately dishonest.

RightWinged on May 21, 2009 at 11:55 PM

Where President Obama stands on this question is still unclear.

Pending more input from focus groups and polls.

ddrintn on May 22, 2009 at 12:04 AM

the very existence of Gitmo was counterproductive to the war on terror and undermined our image abroad…

I’m sure your average jihadi sympathizer is driven to pick up his AK-47 and strap bombs on his neighbors kids when he finds out that America is caterpillaring terrorists and even, Allah forbid, allowing women to interrogate them in tight t-shirts.

18-1 on May 22, 2009 at 12:06 AM

And then [McCain] got acerbic: Cheney, he says, “believes that waterboarding doesn’t fall under the Geneva Conventions and that it’s not a form of torture. But you know, it goes back to the Spanish Inquisition.”

How it’s been done to KSM and how it’s been done historically are two different things..

DaveC on May 22, 2009 at 12:06 AM

I didn’t know they had plastic wrap during the Spanish Inquisition.

Splunge on May 21, 2009 at 10:44 PM

Perhaps McCain got a history lesson from Joe Biden?

18-1 on May 22, 2009 at 12:08 AM

blatantblue on May 21, 2009 at 11:43 PM

Did you like Taken?

thomasaur on May 22, 2009 at 12:09 AM

But you know, it goes back to the Spanish Inquisition.”

So do the pillows and the comfy chair.

Really, Sen McCain, if waterboarding an al Qaeda operative meant avoiding the 9/11 attacks, would you have done it?

ddrintn on May 22, 2009 at 12:10 AM

How it’s been done to KSM and how it’s been done historically are two different things..

DaveC on May 22, 2009 at 12:06 AM

That is crazy talk and in in fact I think we need to take this thing a step further!

The next time a sports team gets decimated we get their opponents brought up on murder charges.

After all, it is the same word, even if the application might not be the same right? ;)

18-1 on May 22, 2009 at 12:11 AM

Seriously, let the record show that Allah is either not too bright or deliberately dishonest.

RightWinged on May 21, 2009 at 11:55 PM

Seriously, what are you talking about?

Anyway, a former friend of mine used to be a staunch believer in the war on terror, but at some point last year he turned into an Obamabot. His only stated reason for voting Obama was because McCain was somehow in favor of “torture.” Obama was going to close Gitmo and make the world love us again and so forth. Kinda funny.

Jim Treacher on May 22, 2009 at 12:13 AM

Anyway, a former friend of mine used to be a staunch believer in the war on terror, but at some point last year he turned into an Obamabot. His only stated reason for voting Obama was because McCain was somehow in favor of “torture.” Obama was going to close Gitmo and make the world love us again and so forth. Kinda funny.

Hey, controlling a media has its benefits.

Now excuse me as I go laugh about Sarah Palin claiming there are 57 states in the union.

18-1 on May 22, 2009 at 12:15 AM

And then [McCain] got acerbic:

Ever get the feeling that your hand which voted for McCain will spontaneously burst into flames?

ddrintn on May 22, 2009 at 12:16 AM

Did you like Taken?

thomasaur on May 22, 2009 at 12:09 AM

Loved it.

However, it just got me so depressed.

You know, thinking about the thousands and thousands and thousands of women in Eastern Europe (and in the rest of the world) forced into sexual slavery. It breaks my heart to think about it, and I’d have ZERO problem with putting a hollowpoint in the forehead of one of those filthy rat bastard traffickers.

I’m debating if they are worse than the sub human filth mujahideen, or just on equal par.

blatantblue on May 22, 2009 at 12:23 AM

blatantblue on May 22, 2009 at 12:23 AM

Are you feeling okay? You seem to be not as humorous as you usually are.

Loxodonta on May 22, 2009 at 12:25 AM

All I want to do is just reach out and save every single one of those poor girls who are forced to live such horrible lives by these masochistic freak pigs who deserve to have every bit of flesh from their face torn off with rusty pliers and old steak knives before they are drowned in a pool of muddy water filled with fecal matter.

I liked how “Taken” made no apologies. Liam Neeson just killed motherf*ckers left and right — tortured them, made them talk, and kill them.

He brutally shot so many guys in the face, I loved it. Watching him shoot human traffickers was like f*cking poetry to me.

blatantblue on May 22, 2009 at 12:26 AM

blatantblue on May 22, 2009 at 12:26 AM

I know what I’m renting tomorrow..

DaveC on May 22, 2009 at 12:28 AM

Loxodonta on May 22, 2009 at 12:25 AM

I hate terrorists and human traffickers, I guess that’s what is bothering me.

They really are the scum of the Earth, and it’s so sad to see others have such a disrespect, disdain, and outright hate towards the innocent.

What a f*cked world. Really

And the libs worry about the Gitmo Dog Boys and whether they’re feeling happy.

blatantblue on May 22, 2009 at 12:29 AM

Oh well. The world sucks. It’s a dark, shitty, disgusting, brutish abyss.

I think it was “keep the change” that so eloquently stated last night that what we see in our everyday lives is so abnormal in the grand scheme of human history.

The West has created such abundant luxuries for itself that many of us forget what lay outside our own cushiony borders.

I suppose I just came around to remembering again what horrors lay on the horizon.

But I guess on that note I’m going to bed! Work tomorrow.

blatantblue on May 22, 2009 at 12:33 AM

blatantblue on May 22, 2009 at 12:29 AM

I understand about the terrorists. perhaps I’ve missed something today about human trafficers.

However, I know there is much work that must be done to turn our country around. It can be frustrating and depressing.

Loxodonta on May 22, 2009 at 12:34 AM

But I guess on that note I’m going to bed! Work tomorrow.

blatantblue on May 22, 2009 at 12:33 AM

Have a good night and a good day. Give people your smile. For some, at times, that’s all they might get to ease their pain.

Loxodonta on May 22, 2009 at 12:36 AM

Jay Nordlinger, at The Corner, nailed it:

“Obama said that the interrogations made us less safe — much less safe. Cheney said the opposite: that they had made the country much more safe. Big, big difference.”

And that, about as clearly as anything, delineates the real divide.

notropis on May 22, 2009 at 1:08 AM

Jay Nordlinger, at The Corner, nailed it:

“Obama said that the interrogations made us less safe — much less safe. Cheney said the opposite: that they had made the country much more safe. Big, big difference.”

And that, about as clearly as anything, delineates the real divide.

notropis on May 22, 2009 at 1:08 AM

Cheney also says the truth of it is in the memos Obama refuses to release.

I think we need to see those memos. If Cheney is lying we should know that. And if Obama is lying we should know that even more.

Obama knows public opinion will turn against him if the whole truth comes out.

None of us can know the truth of this. We need evidence and Obama is withholding it.

petunia on May 22, 2009 at 1:30 AM

Did you like Taken?

thomasaur on May 22, 2009 at 12:09 AM
Loved it.

However, it just got me so depressed.

You know, thinking about the thousands and thousands and thousands of women in Eastern Europe (and in the rest of the world) forced into sexual slavery. It breaks my heart to think about it, and I’d have ZERO problem with putting a hollowpoint in the forehead of one of those filthy rat bastard traffickers.

I’m debating if they are worse than the sub human filth mujahideen, or just on equal par.

blatantblue on May 22, 2009 at 12:23 AM

I’m sure you went to bed already… but that was a distrubing movie. We went and took our 14 year old. I’ll tell you it has value.

I said to her… “his is why I worry. And sometimes when I say no it is because there are really really bad things out there and I don’t always know where they are and I want you as far away from anything like that as you can get.

And you are never going to Paris.”

I think she is actually afraid of Paris.

petunia on May 22, 2009 at 1:35 AM

For anyone that cares regarding the louisiana legislature criticism the other day:

http://www.nwlanews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=14225&Itemid=29

The legislature is going to strip out that nonsense.

TTheoLogan on May 22, 2009 at 1:37 AM

Do not allow your enemies to define you.

Speakup on May 22, 2009 at 1:47 AM

Do not allow your enemies to define you.

Speakup on May 22, 2009 at 1:47 AM

We’ve really dropped the ball on that one.

Blake on May 22, 2009 at 1:52 AM

Ever get the feeling that your hand which voted for McCain will spontaneously burst into flames?
.
ddrintn on May 22, 2009 at 12:16 AM

.
No. But the toilet paper I brought into the voting booth came in handy.

darktood on May 22, 2009 at 2:01 AM

Jay Nordlinger, at The Corner, nailed it:

“Obama said that the interrogations made us less safe — much less safe. Cheney said the opposite: that they had made the country much more safe. Big, big difference.”

And that, about as clearly as anything, delineates the real divide.

notropis on May 22, 2009 at 1:08 AM


Reality is not a strong point for liberals:


Patriot Act Likely Helped Thwart NYC Terror Plot, Security Experts Say

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/05/21/security-experts-say-patriot-act-likely-helped-thwart-nyc-terror-plot/

It’s too early to know what surveillance methods were used to arrest four men accused of plotting to bomb two New York synagogues, but national security experts say measures implemented under the Bush administration likely played a critical role.

By Cristina Corbin

FOXNews.com

Thursday, May 21, 2009

The Patriot Act — signed into law by President Bush in October 2001 — expanded wiretap authority to allow greater use of “roving wiretaps.” The provision permits the FBI to wiretap any telephone a suspected terrorist may be using without having to obtain court approval.

“It’s a very critical measure,” said Jeffrey Addicott, director of Center for Terrorism and Law at St. Mary’s University in San Antonio, Texas. “It gives law enforcement permission to listen in on any phone that a suspect gets a hold of.”

Of course you won’t hear Obama talking about “inheriting” this type of success from the Bush administration.

To the “smart ones”,these are examples of “making us less safe”.


Foiled Terror Plots Against America Since 9/11

Thursday , September 11, 2008
http://www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_story/0,3566,335500,00.html
By Joseph Abrams and Jonathan Passantino

The following is a list of known terror plots thwarted by the U.S. government since Sept. 11, 2001.
• December 2001, Richard Reid: British citizen attempted to ignite shoe bomb on flight from Paris to Miami.
• May 2002, Jose Padilla: American citizen accused of seeking radioactive-laced “dirty bomb” to use in an attack against Amrica. Padilla was convicted of conspiracy in August, 2007.
• September 2002, Lackawanna Six: American citizens of Yemeni origin convicted of supporting Al Qaeda after attending jihadist camp in Pakistan. Five of six were from Lackawanna, N.Y.
• Click to view photos of suspected terrorists and attack sites.
• May 2003, Iyman Faris: American citizen charged with plotting to use blowtorches to collapse the Brooklyn Bridge.
• June 2003, Virginia Jihad Network: Eleven men from Alexandria, Va., trained for jihad against American soldiers, convicted of violating the Neutrality Act, conspiracy.
• August 2004, Dhiren Barot: Indian-born leader of terror cell plotted bombings on financial centers (see additional images).
• August 2004, James Elshafay and Shahawar Matin Siraj: Sought to plant bomb at New York’s Penn Station during the Republican National Convention.
• August 2004, Yassin Aref and Mohammed Hossain: Plotted to assassinate a Pakistani diplomat on American soil.
• June 2005, Father and son Umer Hayat and Hamid Hayat: Son convicted of attending terrorist training camp in Pakistan; father convicted of customs violation.
• August 2005, Kevin James, Levar Haley Washington, Gregory Vernon Patterson and Hammad Riaz Samana: Los Angeles homegrown terrorists who plotted to attack National Guard, LAX, two synagogues and Israeli consulate.
• December 2005, Michael Reynolds: Plotted to blow up natural gas refinery in Wyoming, the Transcontinental Pipeline, and a refinery in New Jersey. Reynolds was sentenced to 30 years in prison.
• February 2006,
Mohammad Zaki Amawi, Marwan Othman El-Hindi and Zand Wassim Mazloum: Accused of providing material support to terrorists, making bombs for use in Iraq.
• April 2006, Syed Haris Ahmed and Ehsanul Islam Sadequee: Cased and videotaped the Capitol and World Bank for a terrorist organization.
• June 2006, Narseal Batiste, Patrick Abraham, Stanley Grant Phanor, Naudimar Herrera, Burson Augustin, Lyglenson Lemorin, and Rotschild Augstine: Accused of plotting to blow up the Sears Tower.
• July 2006, Assem Hammoud: Accused of plotting to bomb New York City train tunnels.
• August 2006, Liquid Explosives Plot: Thwarted plot to explode ten airliners over the United States.
• March 2007, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed: Mastermind of Sept. 11 and author of numerous plots confessed in court in March 2007 to planning to destroy skyscrapers in New York, Los Angeles and Chicago. Mohammedalso plotted to assassinate Pope John Paul II and former President Bill Clinton.
• May 2007, Fort Dix Plot: Six men accused of plotting to attack Fort Dix Army base in New Jersey. The plan included attacking and killing soldiers using assault rifles and grenades.
• June 2007, JFK Plot: Four men are accused of plotting to blow up fuel arteries that run through residential neighborhoods at JFK Airport in New York.
• September 2007, German authorities disrupt a terrorist cell that was planning attacks on military installations and facilities used by Americans in Germany. The Germans arrested three suspected members of the Islamic Jihad Union, a group that has links to Al Qaeda and supports Al Qaeda’s global jihadist agenda.

And of course the death of the most lethal al-qaeda terrorist,responsible for tens of thousands of deaths:
MUSAB AL-ZARQAWI.

That’s quite a Berkeley bubble the useful idiots live in.

Baxter Greene on May 22, 2009 at 2:16 AM

I have no money ………

I was laid off ………

….. and I am pissed off.

In conclusion……..

…….. I am thinking for running for the Senate of the United States of America, for the State of California.

Seven Percent Solution on May 22, 2009 at 2:21 AM

Another liberal example of how Bush/Cheney made America “less
safe”:

Are We Safer?

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives2/2008/05/020600.php

Empirically, however, it seems beyond dispute that something has made us safer since 2001. Over the course of the Bush administration, successful attacks on the United States and its interests overseas have dwindled to virtually nothing.

2004
There were no successful attacks inside the United States or against American interests abroad.
2005
There were no successful attacks inside the United States or against American interests abroad.
2006
There were no successful attacks inside the United States or against American interests abroad.
2007
There were no successful attacks inside the United States or against American interests abroad.
2008
So far, there have been no successful attacks inside the United States or against American interests abroad.

Maybe Obama was talking in Argentinean again and “less safe” translates to “safer” in English?

Baxter Greene on May 22, 2009 at 2:22 AM

“Baxter Greene on May 22, 2009 at 2:16 AM”

This is how my world has been defined for over seven years, so I’m real patient with people like:

David Brooks
David Frum
Christopher Hitchens
Rudy Giuliani
Mike Huckabee
Michael Steele
Sarah Palin

I know for a fact on which side of the divide each of the above stands, and it’s the same as me.

On the other hand:

John McCain
Colin Powell
John Huntsmann

It’s not at all clear from anything they’ve said. In fact, it seems far too likely that we’d be on opposite sides of this, the single primally important issue.

notropis on May 22, 2009 at 2:24 AM

And then [McCain] got acerbic: Cheney, he says, “believes that waterboarding doesn’t fall under the Geneva Conventions and that it’s not a form of torture. But you know, it goes back to the Spanish Inquisition.”

This is just pure idiocy. I understand that McCain withstood true torture, but that doesn’t give him free license to make up anything he wants about torture. But, McCain has always taken free license to make up all sorts of stuff.

If all they did during the Spanish Inquisition was waterboarding of the type done at GITMO, then there wouldn’t even be a name for that period. Maybe these geniuses should think about that before they start with their incoherent babbling about the illusory world they have created. It is sheer insanity.

And, if I hear one more idiot refer to the Geneva Conventions, I think I’ll retch. Every time some moron brings that treaty up, let him answer how our strategic nuclear arsenal is allowed under the Geneva Conventions, since its only purpose is to incinerate tens of millions of civilians – just the threat of which is specifically prohibited by the Geneva Conventions. Let these morons show how they would totally strip us of our security in pursuit of their windmills of idiocy.

I have never seen such insanity like that exhibited by these fools in their attempts to paint waterboarding as torture and their asinine references to a treaty that has never been kept by anyone, save a few pieces here and there, when convenient. This world cannot continue much longer with such a drastic detachment from reality existing in the minds of our politicians and government officials.

progressoverpeace on May 22, 2009 at 2:29 AM

John McCain
Colin Powell
John Huntsmann

It’s not at all clear from anything they’ve said. In fact, it seems far too likely that we’d be on opposite sides of this, the single primally important issue.

notropis on May 22, 2009 at 2:24 AM

You are exactly right about this.
I would also add Lindsey Graham to this list.

As much as I respect McCain for his Military service I get sick and tired of the sucker punches he throws at the Republican party all the time.
Just when you start to feel good about him,you get up in the morning and go “He said What!!!?”.
This combined with him not sticking up for Palin (Who provided him his only chance of winning in 08 before the Sept. crash) when his campaign people tried to lay the loss on her
sealed my deal with him.
Cheney goes out and puts Obama and his liberal sheep on the defensive and McCain gets on Greta to distort the message and give the democrats MSM help once again.

By the time 2010/2012 rolls around,this country is going to need strong,decisive leadership not based on polls or ideological pursuit,but what is best for the country.

Republicans are going to have to offer this backed up with
coherent and practical solutions are they will remain in the minority.

We can offer a large tent of ideas and policies without settling for weak and indecisive leadership.

Baxter Greene on May 22, 2009 at 3:17 AM

…….. I am thinking for running for the Senate of the United States of America, for the State of California.

Seven Percent Solution on May 22, 2009 at 2:21 AM

.
If you are in Pelosi’s district, remember to campaign in drag, and/or fetish gear.
.
.

And, if I hear one more idiot refer to the Geneva Conventions, I think I’ll retch. Every time some moron brings that treaty up, let him answer how our strategic nuclear arsenal is allowed under the Geneva Conventions, since its only purpose is to incinerate tens of millions of civilians
.
progressoverpeace on May 22, 2009 at 2:29 AM

.
The purpose of our nuclear arsenal is to first to provide a credible threat. And second to obliterate the ability of a hostile nation to continue to fight a war that they started.

darktood on May 22, 2009 at 3:35 AM

“Battlefield executions” of captured illegal combatants are, and have always been, quite legal under the Geneva Conventions. Once we take them prisoner instead, though, summary executions are off the table even for these combatants.
`
So why not just shoot them on the battlefield? Because we have no way of knowing at that point exactly who we have, or what they may know of pending plots or high-ranking figures in the organization. Dead men tell no tales. What if we shot the guy who just delivered a package of food, medical supplies, and back issues of Jihadi Monthly to Osama’s cave? It wouldn’t be such a good idea in that case, or many others. And we have no way of knowing until we at least identify and interrogate them.
`

Adjoran on May 22, 2009 at 3:36 AM

The purpose of our nuclear arsenal is to first to provide a credible threat. And second to obliterate the ability of a hostile nation to continue to fight a war that they started.

darktood on May 22, 2009 at 3:35 AM

I understand exactly what our arsenal is for, which is why I said that it violates the 4th Geneva Convention. This goes to the whole idiocy of not being allowed to threaten, or even humiliate, prisoners and civilians. My point is that the Geneva Conventions are totally unrealistic and no one has ever followed them. No one even took them seriously until after the fall of the USSR in 1991 and people started creating this illusory world in which all wars take place within some well-defined, international legal framework and with the same sorts of moral calculations as one makes in peace time. (I would note that the UN was also never considered anything but a joke, that no one took seriously, until after the USSR fell and Bush Sr. empowered that peerless, competitionless institution in one of the dumbest moves in all of human history. These were not coincidences.)

All I want to hear someone ask one of these Geneva Convention whores is why we have the nuclear football and how it complies with the Geneva Conventions that they would love to use to neuter our ability to defend ourselves based on a fantasy world that has never existed. Many people today don’t even know what the Cold War was about, what the threats were (total annihilation) and refuse to acknowledge that we still live with the exact same threats, to this day – in conflict with their naive, fantasy world.

progressoverpeace on May 22, 2009 at 3:56 AM

and refuse to acknowledge that we still live with the exact same threats, to this day

progressoverpeace on May 22, 2009 at 3:56 AM

By that I mean, if I were a jihadi with a sizeable ability, I would look more to trying to cause a Russian nuke launch (either an active launch or causing the Russians to think they were about to come under attack) than directly hit the US. This is not nearly as difficult as many would think. The Russians had a couple of close calls on mistaken warnings even since 2000, and our close calls in the 70′s and 80′s are known.

This is clearly the most extreme case, but it is not at all unreasonable. We know that Russian nuclear safeguards (for warning and launch) are pretty awful and the news of computer viruses invading some of our own sensitive systems is a bit unsettling.

progressoverpeace on May 22, 2009 at 4:04 AM

To finish this up, treaties are not references of “law”. They are contracts. One does not get to pick and choose among the requirements of a treaty, as one does with law in that I can choose which laws to follow and which to break (just having to take the punishment for those specific laws that I break). With treaties that have enforcement mechanisms (other than self-regulation) either the signatory follows the whole treaty or it is invalid. The Geneva Conventions are invalid, because no one has ever followed them, and none do (other than those countries that don’t actually defend themselves).

progressoverpeace on May 22, 2009 at 4:13 AM

With treaties that have enforcement mechanisms

Er .. should be:

that have NO enforcement mechanisms

progressoverpeace on May 22, 2009 at 4:14 AM

Dear goopers, here’s a short history of your policies….pro-torture, anti-healthcare for everyone…..tax cuts for the uber wealthy……make up reasons to start a war in Iraq, kill 100,000 innocent Iraqi’s, torture some more at Abu Ghraib.The latest Pew Poll has gooper identification at 22%, a fact that goopers are oblivious too. Annoint your king and savior Rush “pillboy” Limbaugh. Your queen Caribou Barbie. Dear Barbie, Africa is a continent, not a country. Another spokesman…Joe the Plumber, not really a plumber. Whose out trying to defend Bush policies? The real president at the time”dick I shot my friend in the face Cheney. Bush, totally absent in the debate, he never was the real president. And good ole Karl Rove, mister permanent republican majority man. How’s that working out for you Turd Blossom? The gop, hateful,spiteful,old,male,old Confederacy regionally based bigots. Please don’t change your M.O., its working so well for you.

athensboy on May 22, 2009 at 7:21 AM

The ongoing,Deception/Perception campaign of Demonizing,
truth stretching,pure twisting of the facts,and simply
playing politics for Obama’s own ego against the Republ
ican Party!

Obama needs to be criticized,because if anything,thats what
upsets,Hopey/Changey!!!

canopfor on May 22, 2009 at 7:42 AM

Dear goopers,

athensboy on May 22,2009 at 7:21AM.

athensboy:

Goodmorning LibTard,you need to activate the re-set button,
your stuck on Bush!!

And remember,its was the Republican Party who fought to
free the slaves,back when,now what side of that issue
where you on!!!

canopfor on May 22, 2009 at 7:49 AM

I am thinking for running for the Senate of the United States of America, for the State of California.

Seven Percent Solution on May 22, 2009 at 2:21 AM

Dont be a pussy, quite thinking about it and do it… And thats one Californian speaking to another…

doriangrey on May 22, 2009 at 8:03 AM

I am thinking for running for the Senate of the United States of America, for the State of California.

Seven Percent Solution on May 22, 2009 at 2:21 AM

Dont be a wussy, quite thinking about it and do it… And thats one Californian speaking to another…

doriangrey on May 22, 2009 at 8:07 AM

Kinda funny.

Jim Treacher

(::sigh:: No, it’s not. The pissy poser’s actually president now. And in all of four months’ time, humor has left the building. Irony’s still hanging around for scraps, but humor took a powder.)

tree hugging sister on May 22, 2009 at 8:19 AM

If water boarding is so ineffective and we learned zero, zip, nada from it, why did we do it over a period of 8 years?

We didn’t do it over 8 years, The better question is: if waterboarding was ineffective why has Obama refused to release the memos detailing the results of these interrogations?

The answer is so obvious the in-the-tank MSM won’t even ask.

Basilsbest on May 22, 2009 at 8:22 AM

athensboy on May 22, 2009 at 7:21 AM

Dear Demon. None of that. You are a waste of space.

No offense.

Just sayin’.

Tennman on May 22, 2009 at 8:24 AM

Obama’s own reputation

The goal.

bluelightbrigade on May 22, 2009 at 8:39 AM

In the news today, Presguy Obama says it is ok to waterboard if you use spring water. Also Gitmo detainees will be passed around to live with American families until Obama can get an answer from his teleprompter on what to do.
/sarc

Tremmy on May 22, 2009 at 9:02 AM

I didn’t know they had plastic wrap during the Spanish Inquisition.

Splunge on May 21, 2009 at 10:44 PM

Shhh- nobody’s supposed to know that we don’t actually cause terrorists to ingest water during waterboarding.

hawksruleva on May 22, 2009 at 9:24 AM

The gop, hateful,spiteful,old,male,old Confederacy regionally based bigots. Please don’t change your M.O., its working so well for you.

athensboy on May 22, 2009 at 7:21 AM

I’m sure the conservatives in Alaska, Arizona and Montana are looking forward to putting up their Civil War monuments any day now.

You know what, never mind. You’re absolutely right, and you’ve convinced every one of us that your party is absolutely correct on every issue, now and forevermore. Your work here is done.

hawksruleva on May 22, 2009 at 9:28 AM

Has Obama even been to Gitmo?

scalleywag on May 22, 2009 at 10:08 AM

The gop, hateful,spiteful,old,male,old Confederacy regionally based bigots. Please don’t change your M.O., its working so well for you.

athensboy on May 22, 2009 at 7:21 AM

Gee, that sounded hateful, spiteful, tired and redundant. But that’s what trolls do.

scalleywag on May 22, 2009 at 10:10 AM

The Spanish Inquisition is what we have now. Sarah Palin will be the first burned at the stake for not worshipping the Messiah.

technopeasant

If they come after Sarah, they will die in bunches.

BTW, I always thought the Geneva Convention treaty existed just to restrain us. It certainly doesn’t seem to restrain anybody else.

SKYFOX on May 22, 2009 at 11:41 AM