Hope and change: Obama may go beyond Bush on detaining terror suspects
posted at 8:50 am on May 21, 2009 by Karl
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The New York Times buries this eye-opener on Page A-18:
President Obama told human rights advocates at the White House on Wednesday that he was mulling the need for a “preventive detention” system that would establish a legal basis for the United States to incarcerate terrorism suspects who are deemed a threat to national security but cannot be tried, two participants in the private session said.
***
The two participants, outsiders who spoke on the condition of anonymity because the session was intended to be off the record, said they left the meeting dismayed.
***
“He was almost ruminating over the need for statutory change to the laws so that we can deal with individuals who we can’t charge and detain,” one participant said. “We’ve known this is on the horizon for many years, but we were able to hold it off with George Bush. The idea that we might find ourselves fighting with the Obama administration over these powers is really stunning.”
The other participant said Mr. Obama did not seem to be thinking about preventive detention for terrorism suspects now held at Guantanamo Bay, but rather for those captured in the future, in settings other than a legitimate battlefield like Afghanistan…
The Obama administration has been internally mulling this issue on the downlow for months. In February, Jane Mayer reported in the New Yorker on what this system might look like:
A number of national-security lawyers in both parties favor the creation of some new form of preventive detention. They do not believe that it is the President’s prerogative to lock “enemy combatants” up indefinitely, yet they fear that neither the criminal courts nor the military system is suited for the handling of transnational terrorists, whom they do not consider to be ordinary criminals or conventional soldiers. Instead, they suggest that Obama should work with Congress to write new laws, possibly creating a “national-security court,” which could order certain suspects to be held without a trial.
One proponent of this idea is Neal Katyal, whom Obama recently named to the powerful post of Principal Deputy Solicitor General, in the Justice Department… Given the sensitivity of this role, Katyal declined to comment for this story. But in October he posted an article on a Web site affiliated with Georgetown Law, in which he argued, “What is needed is a serious plan to prosecute everyone we can in regular courts, and a separate system to deal with the very small handful of cases in which patently dangerous people cannot be tried.” This new system, he wrote, would give the government the “ability to temporarily detain a dangerous individual,” including in situations where “a criminal trial has failed.” There are hundreds of legal variations that could be considered, he said. In 2007, Katyal published a related essay, co-written with Jack L. Goldsmith, a conservative Harvard Law School professor who served as the head of the Office of Legal Counsel in the Bush Justice Department. The essay argued that preventive detention, overseen by a congressionally authorized national-security court, was necessary to insure the “sensible” treatment of classified evidence, and to protect secret “sources and methods” of gathering intelligence. In his Web post, Katyal wrote, “I support such a security court.”
Such schemes have already stirred considerable controversy elsewhere in the world, including in Great Britain, where since 2005 some three dozen terror suspects have been detained for a time under house-arrest-like conditions, in some cases being required to wear ankle monitors, obey curfews, and refrain from using phones or the Internet. In America, such a compromise is sure to alarm many human-rights advocates and civil libertarians, who regard indefinite detention as antithetical to the American legal system’s most basic tenets…
Later in the article, Mayer reported that White House counsel Greg Craig was looking at the whether the number of “hard cases” — suspects who may be difficult to convict under American legal standards of justice, but who may pose a palpable threat if released — might require preventive detention laws. While this thinking goes beyond the Guantanamo detainees, the difficulties Obama is having shutting down the facility — and perhaps his daily intelligence briefings — must be leaving him with more “hard cases” than he thought. Otherwise, he wouldn’t have floated this trial balloon with human rights groups, who were certain to receive it like the Hindenburg.
Update (AP): For extra nuance, read this Politico piece about The One’s speech this morning on torture. America “lost its way” under Bush, you see, by waterboarding the guy who planned 9/11. But now we’ve found our way back … with preventive detention.
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Well, after all, we have all those Ron Paul supporters, and pro-filers, and military vets, and people who don’t like confiscatory taxation and all running around that the DHS has to deal with. how else are ya gonna handle all them nuts unles you can lock em up before they go crazy?
Akzed on May 21, 2009 at 8:55 AM
Who would have predicted this?
The flip-floppingest campaigner evah became a flip-flopping POTUS.
jgapinoy on May 21, 2009 at 8:55 AM
Now this is one change I can get behind!
promachus on May 21, 2009 at 8:55 AM
Hmmm, sounds like the One is planning on opening
Auschwitz-BirkenauThe William Ayer’s Memorial Community Re-education and Elimination Facility….doriangrey on May 21, 2009 at 8:56 AM
LOL. Hope and change indeed. My hope has always been that he would change his mind.
youngO on May 21, 2009 at 8:56 AM
Karl, you obviously have no systems analyst chops.
What we are seeing under Obama is in no way a continuation of Bush policies but what is known as a graceful degradation of service as O tries to extricate us from the clusterfuck of the last 8 years.
strangelet on May 21, 2009 at 8:56 AM
Oops, for a moment I thought this new system would be used to lock up Islamic militants. Of course, it will be used to lock up right wingers, tea baggers and any other potential threats to Obama’s permanent rule.
promachus on May 21, 2009 at 8:57 AM
I am not going to believe it until I see it. Obama has a habit of saying one thing and doing another.
jencab on May 21, 2009 at 8:57 AM
The other participant said Mr. Obama did not seem to be thinking about preventive detention for terrorism suspects now held at Guant�namo Bay, but rather for those captured in the future, in settings other than a legitimate battlefield like Afghanistan…
Uh oh….”terrorist” has already been redefined by Nappyapolitano, so do the streets of America become “settings other than a battlefield”?
Crazy, I know. Besides, Ogabe would never try something like nationalizing private industry either.
Bishop on May 21, 2009 at 8:57 AM
When I say that this is a bad idea, I mean that I would think it was a bad idea even if I got to personally choose all 535 members of Congress and the president.
myrenovations on May 21, 2009 at 8:57 AM
Re the politico piece.. isn’t it amazing when journalists report about the future?
Phoenician on May 21, 2009 at 8:59 AM
Obama should be under preventive detention.
He needs to be detained before he utterly destroys America.
izoneguy on May 21, 2009 at 8:59 AM
1st: i thought strangelet was not a morning person. ugh.
2d: i agree that any “preventive detention” of those not captured on an actual battlefield (you know, like in my front yard) is for us bitter clingers.
kelley in virginia on May 21, 2009 at 9:00 AM
1st: i thought strangelet was not a morning person. ugh.
2d: i agree that any “preventive detention” of those not captured on an actual battlefield (you know, like in my front yard) is for us bitter clingers.
kelley in virginia on May 21, 2009 at 9:00 AM
1st: i thought strangelet was not a morning person. ugh.
2d: i agree that any “preventive detention” of those not captured on an actual battlefield (you know, like in my front yard) is for us bitter clingers.
kelley in virginia on May 21, 2009 at 9:00 AM
1st: i thought strangelet was not a morning person. ugh.
2d: i agree that any “preventive detention” of those not captured on an actual battlefield (you know, like in my front yard) is for us bitter clingers.
kelley in virginia on May 21, 2009 at 9:00 AM
Only those utterly ignorant of history (i.e., the majority of the Democrat base) would be surprised that at this. The American Leftist/Progressive history is replete with the utter disregard of those on the Left for the things the Leftists use as demogogic bludgeons, like civil rights or peace.
FDR waged the Second World War and locked up Asians for looking Asian; Clinton took us into the Balkins; etc.
Obama has already been crowned FDR 2.0 — New Deal, Internment…I suppose World War is next.
Harpazo on May 21, 2009 at 9:00 AM
Only those utterly ignorant of history (i.e., the majority of the Democrat base) would be surprised that at this. The American Leftist/Progressive history is replete with the utter disregard of those on the Left for the things the Leftists use as demogogic bludgeons, like civil rights or peace.
FDR waged the Second World War and locked up Asians for looking Asian; Clinton took us into the Balkins; etc.
Obama has already been crowned FDR 2.0 — New Deal, Internment…I suppose World War is next.
Harpazo on May 21, 2009 at 9:01 AM
Only those utterly ignorant of history (i.e., the majority of the Democrat base) would be surprised that at this. The American Leftist/Progressive history is replete with the utter disregard of those on the Left for the things the Leftists use as demogogic bludgeons, like civil rights or peace.
FDR waged the Second World War and locked up Asians for looking Asian; Clinton took us into the Balkins; etc.
Obama has already been crowned FDR 2.0 — New Deal, Internment…I suppose World War is next.
Harpazo on May 21, 2009 at 9:01 AM
Just keep in mind that the One’s mentor (William Ayer’s), the man that started his political career said that it was going to be necessary to eliminate 25 million American citizens who could not be re-educated as socialists. Say hello to the Obama version of Auschwitz-Birkenau, on steroids…
doriangrey on May 21, 2009 at 9:02 AM
i didn’t know strangelet was a morning person.
kelley in virginia on May 21, 2009 at 9:02 AM
Heart Breaker!!!
Apparently Bush wasn’t the Fascist Overlord Kwef Claims he was
Upstater85 on May 21, 2009 at 9:05 AM
Rove on BHO’s flip-flops:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124286200693341141.html
jgapinoy on May 21, 2009 at 9:06 AM
Strange, you might want to drink some more coffee… How is this for you? Hopey-Changey enough for you?
Obama admin. opposes Joe and Valerie Wilson’s request for Supreme Court appeal in suit against Cheney, Rove, Libby and Armitage
Upstater85 on May 21, 2009 at 9:07 AM
The problem is lawyers and the unwillingness of democrats to view the United States as a sovereign nation.
Lawyers have made this a clusterfrack. Just shoot the damn bastards and be done with it.
darwin on May 21, 2009 at 9:07 AM
Obama wants to channel St. Paul, having fallen off his campaign wagon, he sees the light now.
Hey, I’ll thank him when the job is done correctly, not for any lip service.
maverick muse on May 21, 2009 at 9:10 AM
I for one welcome this news because it won’t be long before Obama begins targeting the right and his enemies with this measure and WE can all finally stop pretending these leftists are “fellow Americans” that deserve our deference.
elduende on May 21, 2009 at 9:10 AM
Unkind remark, strangelet.
For blabbermouth Obama to be doing an about-face on his campaign yammering, those national security briefings must be scaring the heck out of him.
I suggest that he invest in some adult diapers. If we’re attacked on his watch–it’s all on this gutless wonder.
BuckeyeSam on May 21, 2009 at 9:14 AM
America “lost it’s way” alright…last November. I fear the way back will be paved with body parts.
SKYFOX on May 21, 2009 at 9:14 AM
What we are seeing under Obama is in no way a continuation of Bush policies but what is known as a graceful degradation of service
“Graceful degradation of service,” eh? In the real world, we call it “screwing the pooch.”
Mr. D on May 21, 2009 at 9:15 AM
Of course, terrorists = those opposed to Dear Leader’s plans.
After all what is worse, a man-caused disaster that takes a few lives or someone who wrecks the future of humanity by driving a Hummer or uses an incandescent bulb.
rbj on May 21, 2009 at 9:15 AM
Upstater85 on May 21, 2009 at 9:07 AM
Interesting link point you have there.
Via Pelosi, the sh!t has already hit Obama’s CIA fan. The Plame/Wilson game was all for campaign, not hereafter, so far as Obama is concerned, under the bus if they push him to shove.
The Supreme Court determines which cases they’ll hear, not the Executive Branch ordering the SCOTUS to hear Plame moan ‘n groan.
maverick muse on May 21, 2009 at 9:15 AM
Our poor little activist can relax BHO isn’t talking about locking up terrorist but military vets who are returning home.
Remember to be real nice to the ACORN people when they come for their census numbers. Or else.
mpgrunt787 on May 21, 2009 at 9:15 AM
In light of Napolitano’s “cluster****” of a report on domestic “threats”, this should be troubling to anyone who isn’t a card-carrying liberal.
hillbillyjim on May 21, 2009 at 9:17 AM
Wow. This is very, very wrong and is in fact, antithetical to the founding priciples of this country. If this gets put into effect, Obama will need to be impeached.
KMC1 on May 21, 2009 at 9:18 AM
Four Arrested in Plot to Bomb NYC Synagogues @ Ace of Spades HQ
maverick muse on May 21, 2009 at 9:18 AM
DHS “Secretary” Napalitano was the speaker at yesterday’s US COast Guard Academy Commencement in New London.
One of the commentors in the New London newspaper had this to say:
Del Dolemonte on May 21, 2009 at 9:21 AM
LOL, you posted this exact same boilerplate, word-for-word, earlier this week. Whatsa matter, Begala forget to send you new DNC talking points this morning?
Del Dolemonte on May 21, 2009 at 9:22 AM
If it wasn’t for the Massive spending I would swear this looks like a Bush presidency. The problem with Obama is he will run us into the ground with the debt.
Bush has been right all along. What I would do to hear Obama say it.
Tremmy on May 21, 2009 at 9:28 AM
“graceful degradation of service” — is that the best Axelrod can do? Hard to believe that even you Lefty morons can believe that crap. Must be difficult to see your Idol dancing around on his feet of clay. Oh well, keep chugging down that Kool-Aid. Maybe it’ll help dull the pain of your betrayal.
AZCoyote on May 21, 2009 at 9:28 AM
Actually, most of those FDR locked up (62 percent to be exact) were American citizens.
Del Dolemonte on May 21, 2009 at 9:29 AM
Ah, that’s right… so we can conclude that
1) Lefties think Obama has that sway
2) Obama went out of his way to b*tch slap Plame.
Upstater85 on May 21, 2009 at 9:31 AM
From the Politico piece referenced in the update:
It would be nice if Sauron Jr. would remember this while he is busy socializing banks and industries, firing CEOs, and otherwise taking a giant dump on the Constitution.
hillbillyjim on May 21, 2009 at 9:31 AM
To his discredit, Bush got Homeland Security in place to supersede the US Constitution; Bush begat bail-outs; and Bush refused to secure our borders or deal with illegal aliens according to rule of law.
Naturlich, timing and proportion make the degree differentiation. Obama is a radical Alinsky/Marxist; Bush was only a progressive enabler of Socialism, “compassionate”
conservativeliberal. Without Bush, there would be no stake already driven into the heart of the Constitution enabling Obama’s camp to root out the heart for BBQ. Bush got the GOP to create Homeland Security with all its fatal flaws; the Democrats on their own would NEVER have been able to sell it to conservatives.To Bush’s great credit, he actually LOVES AMERICA AND AMERICANS and holds a deep respect for our military. He’s just part of his daddy’s club, foremost, and wealthy Americans are who the Bush family favor. It’s understandable, that’s the old GOP gone RINO selling the industrious American down the river in favor of international corporate pirates. How much political platform distinction was there really between GWB and McCain?
maverick muse on May 21, 2009 at 9:32 AM
Not exactly Del.
I included a link that shows what an EPIC FAIL the Bush policies in MENA are.
strangelet on May 21, 2009 at 9:33 AM
Yeah, I see what you are saying. Yes, Bush does love America, he just doesn’t know the best way to show that love. Still though, he’s no fascist. Obama would fit right into Mussolini’s club.
Upstater85 on May 21, 2009 at 9:35 AM
hillbillyjim on May 21, 2009 at 9:31 AM
What Obama says means nothing beyond buying gullible followers. Everything Obama says means not what he has done, is doing or will do.
Actions speak louder than words.
maverick muse on May 21, 2009 at 9:35 AM
I would not want to be Obama. He’s made all these promises to the Far Left. This morning, if he goes back on them in his security speech, they will be mad. If he forces America to take the Gitmo prisoners on the mainland, he has no chance of re-election, because Americans do not want them here.
kingsjester on May 21, 2009 at 9:36 AM
What is up with all these: � characters in these green room articles?
JeffinSac on May 21, 2009 at 9:39 AM
The problem with using this logic is that you must assume that the Arabs themselves are right; that is to say, if you are making the argument that the US should say push for Israeli-Palestinian peace (that will be the day!) simply because the Arabs want this would mean two things.
1) You agree with the Arabs’ point of view
or
2) You don’t agree, but you’d do anything to appease your voters. (unless you can come up with a better #2)
Upstater85 on May 21, 2009 at 9:39 AM
strangelet: catch on. we cannot, under any circumstances let Iraq fall. we’ve spilled our blood there. and Iraq is critical to bringing stability to the region & any hope whatsoever of a none-Islamic theocratic Middle East.
kelley in virginia on May 21, 2009 at 9:40 AM
Instead of flip-flopping, he is more like a pan of popcorn, popping off in all directions.
Someone turns up the heat, and he pops off some kernel of change.
right2bright on May 21, 2009 at 9:40 AM
he is popcorn president! you’ve coined a catchy phrase!
kelley in virginia on May 21, 2009 at 9:42 AM
Something has Obama scared and after changing so many Bush terror policies he is suddenly becoming tougher on terrorists. Obama and his advisers know they will own any terrorist attack, so now they are trying to appear tough to blunt any political fallout.
Howcome on May 21, 2009 at 9:42 AM
Curiously enough, in the poll conducted by Zogby (the same pollster that the libs denounced as full of crap when he showed Ogabe’s numbers falling), there is also this little nugget:
“”The Syrian Embassy is likely tickled pink that Bashar al-Asad was the highest rated Arab leader in the question “which two world leaders outside your own country do you admire most.” Asad scored 18% — well below Hugo Chavez, at 36%, but ahead of Osama bin Laden, Hassan Nasrallah, Hosni Mubarak and Mahmoud Ahmedenejad.”"
That’s right, Chavez and Assad scored highest in “most admirable” category. Gives you a nice feel for the mental acuity of those who were polled.
Bishop on May 21, 2009 at 9:43 AM
Obama is the master of the clusterfuck and America will start seeing some “CHANGE” very soon. Once conservatives get in the game and quit being nice you will wish for the gentle days of “W”.
izoneguy on May 21, 2009 at 9:43 AM
i suspect the daily national security briefing would be enough to strike fear in any of our hearts.
kelley in virginia on May 21, 2009 at 9:44 AM
Yep. Looks like it’s Obama who is laboring for Posner’s “triumph of will over intellect”, rather than conservatives. That is, Obama’s simple-minded campaign promises made to his loony-lefty base for partisan political advantage, versus the intelligent application of proven policies and effective national security measures designed and promulgated by agency experts.
littleguy on May 21, 2009 at 9:45 AM
. . . unless you’re a secured creditor in a bankruptcy proceeding where the union wants the biggest piece of the pie; or unless you’re a responsible, taxpaying citizen of the U.S. who doesn’t want his/her income confiscated by the government to pay for more welfare for deadbeats, illegal aliens, etc.; or unless you’re a corporate executive with a contract for a compensation amount that Dear Leader finds “excessive,” . . . .
AZCoyote on May 21, 2009 at 9:46 AM
I would not want to be Obama.
I would not want to be married to Obama.
I would not want to call Barack “Daddy”.
I would not want to work for Obama.
I would not to advise Obama.
I would not want to shake hands with Obama.
I don’t listen to Obama.
I don’t believe Obama.
I don’t trust Obama.
I want Obama to go away.
izoneguy on May 21, 2009 at 9:46 AM
The sheep fear and dislike the sheep dog…we are the sheep dog, keeping the sheep safe.
Remove us, and the sheep will be killed by the wolves…but the sheep know only fear because they can’t protect themselves.
Such is people who live in dictatorship type situations (monarchy’s, etc.), and liberals who perceive they are in a “dictatorship” when facing a conservative.
Your perception is that we are worse then the wolves…because you or your family have not been torn apart by the wolves, so you perceive us as being the oppressors.
When you grow up, you may begin to understand…in a way I hope not, it will mean you have faced something that one should never face. So your naivete is born from your innocence, lack of knowledge, and experience. It must be nice to be a liberal, you never have to face any real truths or facts…you let the conservatives do that for you.
right2bright on May 21, 2009 at 9:46 AM
Something has Obama scared and after changing so many Bush terror policies he is suddenly becoming tougher on terrorists. Obama and his advisers know they will own any terrorist attack, so now they are trying to appear tough to blunt any political fallout.
Howcome on May 21, 2009 at 9:42 AM
Daily briefings which outline just how many savages are out there testing our defenses? There is a thin, thin line keeping them away but someone, somewhere is going to get through, and it won’t be a southern evangelical pastor.
Bishop on May 21, 2009 at 9:47 AM
A Zogby poll?
Thanks for the laugh, kid.
FYI the boilerplate I was referring to was this:
Del Dolemonte on May 21, 2009 at 9:48 AM
I believe this possible change in policy is a way to detain and hold citizens who are having a little trouble with Hope and Change and need a little time away to get their minds right. If our Dear Leader goes through with this policy change don’t hold your breath waiting for his supporters in and out of the media to cry foul. After all, he is one of them and his intentions are pure as opposed to those evil neo-cons in the previous administration
devolvingtowardsidiocracy on May 21, 2009 at 9:49 AM
izoneguy on May 21, 2009 at 9:46 AM
I completely understand. Unfortunately, this cipher is sitting in the most important office in the world and seems to be the Neville Chamberlain of our time.
kingsjester on May 21, 2009 at 9:49 AM
Save this quote for when he announces that Guantanamo is the place to keep them. At that point, the circle will be squared.
Vashta.Nerada on May 21, 2009 at 9:49 AM
And most of the hedge fund managers will stop investing in union run companies. What is the government going to do? Prop up every failed unionized company? That will only last so long. You will have union on union shitstorms in a few months. They will start eating each other. Once a society turns to cannibalism then it is not far to anarchy.
izoneguy on May 21, 2009 at 9:50 AM
At least it’s TRYING to come up with new levels of spin.
MarkTheGreat on May 21, 2009 at 9:50 AM
Upstater85 on May 21, 2009 at 9:35 AM
I would say that Bush was not a fascist until contemplating exactly WHO ALL were part of the build up to Europe’s second world war. I am NOT inferring grampa’s bank investments, but simply all the goings on that were required FROM SO CALLED Conservatives who were really simply old money changers, willing to profit no matter, and actually appreciative of the fascist express, investing in the up and coming war machines. Capitalist+Communist=Fascist
Ike saw that in Europe and saw it at home in the USA. Ike didn’t hamper it, and washed his hands of it upon leaving office with his departing speech. His generation sat on their well earned laurels, placating every social revolution that came and went with a tsk-tsk because though upsetting emotionally, the “greatest generation” is the ONLY generation to profit from FDR’s Socialism ON THE DIME OF THE BOOMERS.
Speaking of which, Obama may go beyond Bush who left mute. Obama leaves no holds barred in his cloak and dagger Brutus attacks. Class warfare is what got Obama elected; but generation warfare will be what either keeps Obama or mutes him as he muted Bush. Society already despises rather than reveres seniors; and where youth take out their frustrations is always upon the weakest victim available. Obama will give seniors all the lip service to lullaby them into oblivion where he’s sending ALL Americans in a hand basket, but them first in order to coddle his cruel supporters. Liberals have no place for tolerance, and since seniors are known to vote conservative, they are first on the “to do” garbage disposal list.
Dumb thing, everyone gets older. And some people actually love their elders. Obama’s just going to make it impossible for anyone to survive, regardless of intentions or fidelity.
maverick muse on May 21, 2009 at 9:52 AM
Heh, and remember what happened to Chamberlain.
Chamberlain was forced to resign the premiership on 10 May 1940, after Germany invaded the Netherlands, Belgium and France
izoneguy on May 21, 2009 at 9:52 AM
Introducing the New and Improved Terrorist Detention Center!
We’ve changed the color and shape of the box, added some wild perfume, changed the font, and imprinted “New and Improved” right on the front. Of course it will work…Johnson and Johnson has been doing this for years. Change what’s in the box? Are you out of your mind?
BobMbx on May 21, 2009 at 9:53 AM
He may keep Guantanamo open for all the “Right Wing” extremists….
izoneguy on May 21, 2009 at 9:53 AM
And many German and Italian citizens too. Locking up political opponents was used by Democrat Woodrow Wilson decades before.
Wilson, like the bulk of progressive intellectuals in fin-de-siècle America, was deeply influenced by three strands of thought: philosophical Pragmatism, Hegelianism, and Darwinism. This heady intellectual cocktail produced a drunken arrogance and the conviction that the old rules no longer applied.
Government,” Wilson wrote approvingly in his magnum opus, “The State,” “does now whatever experience permits or the times demand.” “No doubt,” he wrote elsewhere, taking dead aim at the Declaration of Independence, “a lot of nonsense has been talked about the inalienable rights of the individual, and a great deal that was mere vague sentiment and pleasing speculation has been put forward as fundamental principle.”
In his 1890 essay, “Leaders of Men,” Wilson explained that a “true leader” uses the masses like “tools.” He must inflame their passions with little heed for the facts. “Men are as clay in the hands of the consummate leader.”
Under the Espionage Act of 1917 and the Sedition Act of 1918, Wilson’s administration shut down newspapers and magazines at an astounding pace. Indeed, any criticism of the government, even in your own home, could earn you a prison sentence. One man was brought to trial for explaining in his own home why he didn’t want to buy Liberty Bonds.
The Wilson administration sanctioned what could be called an American fascisti, the American Protective League. The APL – a quarter million strong at its height, with offices in 600 cities – carried government-issued badges while beating up dissidents and protesters and conducting warrantless searches and interrogations. Even after the war, Wilson refused to release the last of America’s political prisoners, leaving it to subsequent Republican administrations to free the anti-war Socialist Eugene V. Debs and others.
Akzed on May 21, 2009 at 9:55 AM
Run Logan, run!
BobMbx on May 21, 2009 at 9:55 AM
Well at least we’ll get cell blocks with nice ocean views.
AZCoyote on May 21, 2009 at 9:55 AM
Excellent.
Perception alters all.
…the sheep know only fear because they are ignorant self preservationists bleating ignorance is bliss.
the sheep know only fear, incapable of distinction, and fear their protection the only canine they recognize because THEY HAVE YET TO MEET THE WOLF defrocked of the lambs’ wool.
maverick muse on May 21, 2009 at 10:03 AM
Isn’t Palin a wolf hunter?
izoneguy on May 21, 2009 at 10:05 AM
Run Logan, run!
BobMbx on May 21, 2009 at 9:55 AM
Science fiction as prophecy…I’ve heard that authors of science fiction are the most accurate “prophets” of our day, as ancient prophecies were for ancient days…context.
Bill Kristol’s parting advise to Fred Thompson’s POTUS campaign was that to effect his conservative Constitutional message, he should do so from the entertainment industry instead of from government. (Tacky parting shot)
Will Smith gave an interview on success in showbiz wherein he boated of using the “winning formula” in each of his movie enterprises. I challenge Will Smith to play the 2013 POTUS (no election, just governing) in another of his formulaic movies dealing with worst case scenarios, and how yet to survive the enemy, if not defeat the enemy.
maverick muse on May 21, 2009 at 10:16 AM
Is it weird that the first place my mind went with this is the locking up of “social undesirables” in Dachau?
This is gonna get bad, if that’s the way this world is turning….
mjk on May 21, 2009 at 10:16 AM
boaSted
maverick muse on May 21, 2009 at 10:17 AM
And Will Smith once said that Hitler wasn’t such a bad guy if you didn’t look at the Holocaust and that pesky little war thing…..
mjk on May 21, 2009 at 10:18 AM
Obama would move to eliminate lost causes after tribunals via execution.
Conservatives would support that, but FOOLISHLY ignore the devil in the details just as they did supporting Homeland Security with its fatal flaws against citizens.
Who’s next on the chopping board of uncomfortable inconveniences?
The Socialist game of musical chairs, pop goes the weasel, not what you expect. See for yourself.
maverick muse on May 21, 2009 at 10:24 AM
So now he is going to detain NRA members without probable cause? I assume all the ACLU types will be all over this right?
tarpon on May 21, 2009 at 10:25 AM
mjk yeh, no one’s all that bad if you ignore everything about them.
maverick muse on May 21, 2009 at 10:26 AM
Wow, this Obama guy, he’s almost like HITLER! C’mon, Code Pink and LoseOn.org, go get him!
mr.blacksheep on May 21, 2009 at 10:30 AM
Now THAT is a hunter’s hunter with perceptive discretion.
All she needs are shades to wear in dialogue with opponents, drive them bonkers.
I like that lady, and trust her instincts as such. She IS garnering allies; and she has no specific agenda to BE POTUS 2012 so much as to lead conservative participation in government.
maverick muse on May 21, 2009 at 10:35 AM
They don’t even know Hitler, never studied. They’ve already swallowed the Leftist Bushitler Kool-Aid and have lost all sensibilities.
maverick muse on May 21, 2009 at 10:38 AM
I lived in Hawai’i about the same time O’bama claims to have been born there, and one of my teachers there was a Japanese-American who along with her family was locked up by FDR in 1942. She told us many stories of those days, one of which was that even those Japanese-Americans with hardly any Japanese blood at all were locked up.
And as I recall she never said anything about them being helped by the ACLU.
It’s interesting to note that when the US Government finally apologized, it wasn’t a Democrat doing the apology-it was Ronnie Reagan. And Pappy Bush later as President repeated the apology.
Del Dolemonte on May 21, 2009 at 10:40 AM
Akzed on May 21, 2009 at 9:55 AM
Glad to see that you appreciate Jonah Goldberg as well.
Anyone out there who hasn’t read Liberal Fascism yet is losing ground; the same with The Forgotten Man by Shlaes. Easy reading thorough historical synopses, from Rousseau to Obama, highlighting early 20th Century Marxism.
maverick muse on May 21, 2009 at 10:44 AM
Tell it to Glenn Greenwald. One of them, anyway.
Does “new and worse” sound like “graceful degradation” to you?
DrSteve on May 21, 2009 at 10:54 AM
Obama spoke today:
Seven Percent Solution on May 21, 2009 at 11:00 AM
Del Dolemonte on May 21, 2009 at 10:40 AM
Under duress, better safe than sorry trumps Classical Liberalism, and is taken to excess by the progressives every time.
The US War effort in the 1940s was phenomenal in unity and pride. Even the Japanese-Americans suffered their sacrifices for America, maintaining their dignity against all indignant coercion, knowing full well how unjust their plight was. As if being imprisoned wasn’t bad enough, having their property stolen and sold leaving them nothing upon release was salt in the wound. It takes a blind fool to require any testament as to the resilience of the Japanese people, and as Americans, their love for America.
The camp(s) for the Japanese Americans in Arizona were hush-hush taboo, destroyed and never mentioned after the war, as all felt both relieved over any shame, focused on getting past the conflict.
The Japanese Botanical Gardens at the South Mountains were a jewel to visit by the 1950s, and post-war Japanese immigrant faculty were hired at ASU and also by the Phoenix Symphony directed by Mehta’s father. THAT was Carl Hayden’s and then Barry Goldwater’s Republican Arizona.
maverick muse on May 21, 2009 at 11:05 AM
Sooo… Barry wants the ability, to go grab someone from a foreign country, without due process (not charged by a grand jury), using the military, and hold them indefinatly, without a Declaration of War.
Sorry, I don’t want ANY President to have this power, much less one whose intentions and judgement I do not trust.
Romeo13 on May 21, 2009 at 11:18 AM
mjk:
Sorry, but I am going to have to bust your chops on this one.
If you look at the actual INTERVIEW, you will see that the point Will Smith is making is that “Hitler didn’t wake up and think ‘what is the most evil thing I can do today’ each morning.”(rough paraphrasing). In short, he said that evil men- like Hitler- often do not see themselves as being evil, even though- and he made this point quite clear- evil they are indeed.
Now, while it is impossible to tell with complete percision exactly what turned in der Fuhrer’s mind this far after the date, Smith makes a good point, and one that is far deeper than many of the celebutards and “journalists” have made in recent times: evil can see itself as good.
If anything, Will Smith fell victim to the same trap many Conservatives have: a sensationalist and dishonest MSM who values sales and sensationalism over truth and accuracy.
While your point is valid, let’s not fall into the hole of quoting things without checking that the Left has, OK?
Turtler on May 21, 2009 at 11:22 AM
I love these Greenroom posts, but I can’t get past the annoying font problems when posts get “promoted” to the front page.
Buy Danish on May 21, 2009 at 11:27 AM
Typical liberal hypocrisy that pretty much makes up the platform of the democratic party now.
Yell,scream,demonize,and point fingers at your opponents for doing the exact things you helped support them doing,then when you are in power,do the same things yourself
and then claim you are more “sophisticated” in practicing your “smart power”.
When Bush does it = war crimes
When Obama does it = smart power
“Yes We Can !!”
Baxter Greene on May 21, 2009 at 11:35 AM
I long for the days when one could find a daily use for the term “Clenis”.
The golden age is definitely over, eh?
BobMbx on May 21, 2009 at 12:08 PM
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