Purpose? There is no purpose. I think you’re just caught up in the semantics here. I’m not advocating two seperate punishment systems as you seem to be indicating. But in the course of being arrested, at the culmination of a chase during which you tried to kill someone, a few kicks in the ribs and a couple good shots to the face are not unreasonable in my opinion. Why should a criminal be coddled? Especially one like this one, who was obviously guilty of such an egregious crime?
People like you need to put aside some theoretical standard of perfection, and accept that when people are involved, things will never be perfect.

KMC1 on May 21, 2009 at 9:01 AM

So you’re justifying a beating that has no purpose (even though everything you say to describe it indicates that it is punishment for being a “obviously guilty” criminal – you just want to call it something else – but I’m the one jugling semantics).

It’s a purposeless (by your own description) beating administered by government officials. And you think that’s a good thing.

No thanks.

ChicagoBlues

Bingo! Every incident like that makes us civilians a little more wary. You can say I have nothing to fear from the police if I’m a law-abinding citizen, but I’m just not so sure of that. I don’t know anymore what kind of person is behind that badge and gun. My fellow citizens count on me to behave properly (standards) and there are sanctions if I don’t. We must be able to depend on the police to live up to the standards set by their departments. Without that trust, there is fear, resentment and suspicion. None of those will make the job of policing any easier.

So the purpose of the “roughing up” was what? As you describe it it is exactly what I said, a punishment, it serves no other purpose. So you are in support of a legal system where law enforcement decide on whatever punishment they want to deal out prior to there being a trial and verdict. Great system there.

Scrappy on May 21, 2009 at 3:49 AM

Purpose? There is no purpose. I think you’re just caught up in the semantics here. I’m not advocating two seperate punishment systems as you seem to be indicating. But in the course of being arrested, at the culmination of a chase during which you tried to kill someone, a few kicks in the ribs and a couple good shots to the face are not unreasonable in my opinion. Why should a criminal be coddled? Especially one like this one, who was obviously guilty of such an egregious crime?
People like you need to put aside some theoretical standard of perfection, and accept that when people are involved, things will never be perfect. I don’t see the need to lose 5 highly trained officers over some piece of shit criminal like this guy getting a black eye. Should the officers be reprimanded? Absolutely. Should they be fired? Absolutely NOT.
I bet if you went back and looked through each of their records, every one of them has some instance of saving someone, comforting someone, protecting someone or of putting themselves in danger to protect us. A pattern of abuse and an instance of abuse are not the same thing. And again, if you don’t want to get punched in the face while being arrested, try not getting arrested to begin with. If you’re still going to go ahead with the getting arrested part, at least try not to run someone down with a van and shatter their leg.

So the purpose of the “roughing up” was what? As you describe it it is exactly what I said, a punishment, it serves no other purpose. So you are in support of a legal system where law enforcement decide on whatever punishment they want to deal out prior to there being a trial and verdict. Great system there.

Scrappy on May 21, 2009 at 3:49 AM

Purpose? There is no purpose. I think you’re just caught up in the semantics here. I’m not advocating two seperate punishment systems as you seem to be indicating. But in the course of being arrested, at the culmination of a chase during which you tried to kill someone, a few kicks in the ribs and a couple good shots to the face are not unreasonable in my opinion. Why should a criminal be coddled? Especially one like this one, who was obviously guilty of such an egregious crime?
People like you need to put aside some theoretical standard of perfection, and accept that when people are involved, things will never be perfect. I don’t see the need to lose 5 highly trained officers over some piece of shit criminal like this guy getting a black eye. Should the officers be reprimanded? Absolutely. Should they be fired? Absolutely NOT.
I bet if you went back and looked through each of their records, every one of them has some instance of saving someone, comforting someone, protecting someone or of putting themselves in danger to protect us. A pattern of abuse and an instance of abuse are not the same thing. And again, if you don’t want to get punched in the face while being arrested, try not getting arrested to begin with. If you’re still going to go ahead with the getting arrested part, at least try not to run someone down with a van and shatter their leg.

Him clipping that cop was awful and deserves a severe prison term, but nothing justifies the beating. It takes a really special kind of person to beat on a potentially broken guy who has just been ejected in a violent accident. Not surprised to see so many thugs in blue – that’s typical.

Also typical that they tried to cover it up, and only gave the DA the complete tape by accident. Imagine what the discussion would be like if the tape of the beating never came out. How often do you think it doesn’t come out at all? And sometimes, those people are Innocent.

If you can’t retain your professionalism at all times, you are a disgrace and should turn in your badge before you further stain the uniform. Our 18 year old soldiers show so much more maturity than these “pigs”.

(a harm that he knowingly applied for?)

Brilliant point! Now say that out loud, real slow and think about it…

Pole-Cat on May 20, 2009 at 10:16 PM

done. I’m not saying that the cops job isn’t dangerous. it is. but that is no surprise, they know full well the dangers when they sign up for the job. Why should we lose our minds with outrage when an officer is put in a dangerous spot as if his life is somehow more valuable than the convenience store clerk who is held at gunpoint?

Cops are people, they are not more special than anyone else

ANOTHER Brilliant point! Now say that out loud, real slow and think about it…

Pole-Cat on May 20, 2009 at 10:36 PM

and done. A cops life still is no more valuable than yours. Cops shouldnt be given a pass to act like thugs when one of their pals ALMOST gets hurt.

Sorry, AP. When the police have to chase you down, they’re bringing a butt kicking with them. Why fight it? It’s human nature.

but I really don’t think I want to live in a country where the police get to decide on the spot what extra punishments you deserve.

Scrappy on May 21, 2009 at 4:09 AM

Neither do I, but the system we have just isn’t working. Perhaps the behaviour of the cops is an indication of that. From a personal point of view, I don’t know how they can keep hauling them in front of a judge, only to see them back on the street, doing the same thing again.

Crime and punishment. If we had an effective system, this perp would not have been a repeat offender, doing the same sort of thing again – with no regard for innocent lives.

I don’t know why the cops did this, but i would want to do it out of frustration at a system that rewards such thugs with free board and lodging where – to look at him – he gets to choose a boyfriend for the duration.

OldEnglish on May 21, 2009 at 4:03 AM

At the time of the arrest I doubt these police knew that this guy was a repeat offender. I’m not going to argue that the system is perfect and everyone gets the justice they deserve (but I will say it’s better than most places), but I really don’t think I want to live in a country where the police get to decide on the spot what extra punishments you deserve.

Scrappy on May 21, 2009 at 3:49 AM

Crime and punishment. If we had an effective system, this perp would not have been a repeat offender, doing the same sort of thing again – with no regard for innocent lives.

I don’t know why the cops did this, but i would want to do it out of frustration at a system that rewards such thugs with free board and lodging where – to look at him – he gets to choose a boyfriend for the duration.

12thMonkey on May 21, 2009 at 2:16 AM

Very well said.

but these silly little beatings after the perp has put their lives and others in danger really don’t elicit much sympathy from me for the ‘victim’.

Mr Purple on May 21, 2009 at 3:42 AM

Why are so many people here making this straw man argument? I haven’t seen a single person here show sympathy for the jerk who they were chasing. Just people thinking that perhaps cops aren’t supposed to be exacting revenge by beating on an unconsious man that is no longer requiring much force to subdue. Justice is to be achieved in a court, not by a lynch mob.

Absolutely NOT. The little bit of roughing up he got is NOT the punishment for the crime. The punishment for the crime should be life in prison, or given his record, potentially the death penalty.
What he got was a roughing up. Unproffessional? Definitely. Illegal use of force? Not in my opinion.

Don’t want to get punched in the face a few times – BEFORE you go to prison? Then DON’T try to KILL a person.

KMC1 on May 20, 2009 at 10:30 PM

So the purpose of the “roughing up” was what? As you describe it it is exactly what I said, a punishment, it serves no other purpose. So you are in support of a legal system where law enforcement decide on whatever punishment they want to deal out prior to there being a trial and verdict. Great system there.

So I would agree with those who think it tends to attract people who are inclined to abuse their power a bit – but these silly little beatings after the perp has put their lives and others in danger really don’t elicit much sympathy from me for the ‘victim’.

I’d have given them each a two week paid vacatio….errrr suspension, and maybe a sensitivity training class as ‘window dressing for the public’.

They deserve some latitude when engaging someone who has no regard for human life.

Now if this was just some guy they pulled over for speeding who got a little lippy, then I would have a different opinion.

Kicking and beating a dead or unconscious criminal is well beyond what the police are called to do, however. We absolutely do not want to live in a society where justice is carried out on the streets as opposed to the court of law.

One thing you folks defending this behavior forget: Yes, it was a slimeball jackass thug this time they lost their temper, but what about next time? Maybe its you because you talked back during a traffic stop. Maybe its your brother who’s stumbling drunk out of a bar at 2am and mouthing off.

Were the cops heated? Risking their lives? Dealing with a thug who probably deserved it? Yes yes and yes.

But to me, that’s the whole description of a cop’s job. If they can’t resist giving in to emotion and pummeling an unconscious criminal, they probably shouldn’t be in this position in the first place.

That being said the government has to evenhandedly dispense justice, which means some desk time for these punch happy peace officers.

You obviously don’t know what a police state is if this is your example.

Liberal, pansy. I didn’t want you to go away disappointed.

fully agree. They should have waited until he was conscious, and away from cameras.

OldEnglish on May 20, 2009 at 11:04 PM

That’ll work .

None of you can articulate why it is appropriate for an agent of the state to attack an unconscious person. I’d like to see you try.

Sydney Carton on May 20, 2009 at 10:42 PM

I fully agree. They should have waited until he was conscious, and away from cameras.