Video: Hey, how about another long, angry debate over a police brutality clip?
posted at 3:44 pm on May 20, 2009 by Allahpundit
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There’s not much to debate in this one, actually, but the conclusion is so spectacular/awful that I can’t not post it. It’s weird how there almost seem to be trends with these brutality vids that catch on online: For the last few years it was nothing but arguments over proper taser use and lately it’s been nothing but arguments over what constitutes excessive force, ranging from minor examples to more serious ones to out-and-out homicide. This one falls somewhere in the middle-to-extreme end of the spectrum.
All five cops involved have been fired, needless to say.
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I personally know two cops who have been injured by people attempting to run over them. A car is a weapon same as a gun…I’m just sayin’…
ladyingray on May 20, 2009 at 4:25 PM
Sink me. If thugs in uniform were to administer justice in the land then no one need tailor judicial robes and it would be so much for American justice and American judicial fashion.
PercyB on May 20, 2009 at 4:26 PM
Oh, I got your point (entirely). Still won’t budge. Some justice isn’t delivered by a court. You want to hang on principle. We are have been debating principle for 2033 years and look where we are. Dead babies, dead citizens, and coddled perps. Call me a throwback. It won’t change my mind.
Limerick on May 20, 2009 at 4:27 PM
Ever been the victim of a violent crime? Or had a loved one who was a victim? Been a cop or had some in your family? That was a demon in a human body.
Plus, you don’t get it. He did wrong, he was punished, and now we forgive him.
Keyser-Soze on May 20, 2009 at 4:27 PM
Yup. This is an unfortunate thread. I’m not sure you can get much more obviously illegal police brutality than 5 morons beating on an unconscious accident victim.
Who does not deserve much sympathy, by the way. He deserves a couple decades in prison. And if some of his fellow inmates decide to use him (preferably while he’s conscious) as a punching bag, I wouldn’t lose much sleep.
But threads like these serve only to reinforce the (usually) unfair caricatured stereotype of conservatives. THIS kind of behavior is what too many people think conservatism is about – and its why we lose elections. Liberals have convinced enough people that threads like this and comments like these are standard among conservatives. That we’re all unthinking knee-jerk neanderthals.
Ironically, the above comments aren’t even conservative – actual conservatives support upholding the law, and this is obviously criminal behavior.
Professor Blather on May 20, 2009 at 4:27 PM
Yes, liberals dehumanize people in their rhetoric for much more important things.
DrSteve on May 20, 2009 at 4:27 PM
Granted it was a little over the top at the end, but, they did stop beating on him once they realized he was unconscious.
One thing you have to keep in mind is, that this guy was fleeing from the cops, putting many lives in danger – almost ran over a cop with his vehicle (thereby using his car as a deadly weapon)…
What if he was laying on the ground with a gun underneath him and was ready to plug a few cops before he commited ’suicide by cop’?
The first thing the police need to do is make sure he is incapacitated (and no, tasers don’t always work in all situations, especially if the subject is on drugs).
I think they did what they had to do to make sure he was indeed incapacitated – once they realized he was out, they did stop.
Looks like its a little over the top, but then again, that’s what happens when you pull crap like this.
RedbonePro on May 20, 2009 at 4:28 PM
Why is mob rule better than the rule of law? I don’t care if he killed ten cops, you don’t throw the law out the window for revenge.
Grow Fins on May 20, 2009 at 4:28 PM
He hit a cop or at least came very close to it. They should’ve hesitated on breaking and drove right over him.
jeffn21 on May 20, 2009 at 4:29 PM
Besides almost causing two cars to wreck by smashing between them and seemingly going out of his way to run down and murder a cop, this guy was not wearing his seat belt. In the Nanny States of America, that is a serious crime deserving whatever he gets.
Laurence on May 20, 2009 at 4:29 PM
+1
Grow Fins on May 20, 2009 at 4:29 PM
You have the perfect name.
Keyser-Soze on May 20, 2009 at 4:30 PM
I’m not getting into a debate as I have already seen my opinion covered by other posters. I’ll just say this is an awesome video and leave it at that.
anticucho on May 20, 2009 at 4:30 PM
uunngghh…nyaaaa…..uuuggghh
Grow Fins on May 20, 2009 at 4:30 PM
I’m struggling to feel much sympathy for the driver. While I do not support police brutality, I think I will save my sympathy for the police.
I can’t imagine how hopped up on adrenaline these guys were and would not have been in full possession of their senses at that time. I don’t think they should have been fired. Maybe suspended without pay and required to undergo some sort of anger management training. I live pretty close to AL and I have no doubt the firing was to appease some group or another. Most Alabamans would not be outraged over this.
ExcessivelyDiverted on May 20, 2009 at 4:30 PM
Well, maybe not entirely, but I understand where you’re coming from. It’s not so much principle as it is seperation of powers. I am very uncomfortable with law enforcement officers acting as judge/jury/executioners. I am very much in favor of officers using force to subdue criminals. but I still believe that justice does need to forlow the appropriate channels.
That being said I know that if something happened to my friend or family, I would have a hard time trying to resist getting justice myself, that is the main reason I don’t think I would be a very good cop.
Scrappy on May 20, 2009 at 4:31 PM
Yes, great excuse. Sorry your honor. I was hopped up on adrenaline. I couldn’t help beating the crap out of the guy. If you can’t control your emotions, you shouldn’t be a cop.
Grow Fins on May 20, 2009 at 4:32 PM
Wow.
JetBoy on May 20, 2009 at 4:32 PM
Nice. That’s lynching talk.
Grow Fins on May 20, 2009 at 4:32 PM
why ‘Wow”? we have laws for a reason, no? Or do we just beat people up now and call it “justice”?
Grow Fins on May 20, 2009 at 4:34 PM
Heh….I’ll offer up a beer. Believe me, even within my family, their are those who would shout foul, and those that would cheer. What I appreciate is folks taking a stand. Thank God we still can do that.
Limerick on May 20, 2009 at 4:34 PM
I just watched And Justice For All the other day. Movie? Yes. Accurate? Extremely.
Sadly, the justice system will coddle an attempted cop killer, and punish the cops who are scared s**tless. When cops abuse their authority, I and other call them on it, and demand retribution. When cops realize they’re in a situation with someone who has no bones about making their wife a widow, it takes a lot more than a few whacks for a few seconds to make me think they need more than a week or two of paid leave and a written condemnation in their file.
MadisonConservative on May 20, 2009 at 4:34 PM
BS. The guy is being charged (rightly so) with attempted murder. The cops got fired.
Grow Fins on May 20, 2009 at 4:35 PM
Traffic cop.
29Victor on May 20, 2009 at 4:35 PM
Saw the video. Was duly repulsed by the beating. And yet…
I shed not one tear for the cretin who got the beating. Not only that, but since the beating took place and I can’t go back in time and change that fact…
I hope the cretin’s beating was severe enough to keep him from ever operating a motor vehicle again (and thereby no longer putting me or my loved ones — or yours — in peril with one).
Welcome to the world of my dichotomous human emotions.
Dion on May 20, 2009 at 4:35 PM
Not caring that 10 cops get killed isn’t exactly compasionate either pal.
Scrappy on May 20, 2009 at 4:36 PM
So the cop should be crucified for his actions that resulted from dealing with someone apparently unafraid of crushing his body under a multi-ton chunk of steel moving at high velocity…but the attempted cop killer deserves all the consideration in the world.
MadisonConservative on May 20, 2009 at 4:36 PM
Some men just need killin’. You don’t like it? I don’t care.
Limerick on May 20, 2009 at 4:36 PM
It was a figure of speech, you doofus!
Grow Fins on May 20, 2009 at 4:36 PM
Limerick…I’m sorry
robertnyc212 on May 20, 2009 at 4:37 PM
sounds great
Scrappy on May 20, 2009 at 4:37 PM
+1
:)
manofaiki on May 20, 2009 at 4:37 PM
I wonder if you’d say the same if the same guy aimed his van at one of your family members…
JetBoy on May 20, 2009 at 4:38 PM
Good for you. Is that in the Constitution?
Grow Fins on May 20, 2009 at 4:38 PM
words mean things.
Scrappy on May 20, 2009 at 4:39 PM
No. But that’s why the law exists. So i don’t get to wreak revenge on those who have wronged me. I thought you guys were all about logic and reason, not raw vengeful emotion?
Grow Fins on May 20, 2009 at 4:39 PM
Your book is my toilet paper.
MadisonConservative on May 20, 2009 at 4:39 PM
So does context.
Grow Fins on May 20, 2009 at 4:39 PM
Ewwwww … no need to mention Big Purple Baseballs.
For those who don’t want to face the reality that police brutality is not just due to “a few bad apples”, this won’t make any difference. Look, you’ve got to post something other than “the Republicans need to become Democrats” 1000 times a day. Me, I’d rather see more Mickeysoft-bashing posts.
corona on May 20, 2009 at 4:40 PM
Perfect example of liberals who believe the Constitution endows individuals with rights instead of denying government powers. Keep it going. I’ll give you another at bat.
Limerick on May 20, 2009 at 4:40 PM
The full 20.23 minute video is the one to watch. How many private citizens did he endanger?
nor on May 20, 2009 at 4:41 PM
Not all police officers react in this manner, even though they still take the criminal down. What do the officers that don’t behave like this have that these men didn’t, or vice versa?
What can be done to help police officers so they can reduce the likelihood they react this way?
Loxodonta on May 20, 2009 at 4:42 PM
I saw this earlier. Right after he almost ran over the cop, “Kill the MF.” came out of my mouth involuntarily. These cops should have had reprimand letters placed in their files and been sent back to work.
peacenprosperity on May 20, 2009 at 4:43 PM
robertnyc212 on May 20, 2009 at 4:37 PM
There is nothing more disingenuous than a Liberal poster
pretending to be a Christian Saint in order to snark at Conservatives.
kingsjester on May 20, 2009 at 4:44 PM
I understand that. The cops in question were fired…not placed on restricted duty, or leave without pay…fired.
But do you agree, in that situation, that you’d probably react as those officers did had one of yours been aimed at with a speeding van?
JetBoy on May 20, 2009 at 4:44 PM
That’s OK kingsjester. robertnyc is trying to rub this Big-Banger-Darwinist-Some Sunday Christian’s nose in The Book.
He can’t.
Limerick on May 20, 2009 at 4:46 PM
To your first question, probably the benefit of not having seen one of their number nearly killed when the guy tried to run them down. Case-by-case basis. This case speaks for itself.
To your second question: Robocop. That’s kind of a joke, and kind of not. Unless you can develop some sort of drug to inhibit adrenalin, you can’t expect any cop, involved in a high-speed chase with a criminal that has decided they will end your life in order to go on with their activies, to be entirely in control. Training only goes so far. Every police officer is still a human being.
MadisonConservative on May 20, 2009 at 4:46 PM
Hotair has gone topsy-turvy with its latest parlour game
Some will end up defending the disgraces in uniform from night to morn
They dress themselves in a wreath of indignation at the very hint of anything for which them to blame
You’d think in those common thugs that noble Sir Galahad had been re-born
But the jackanapes are always runnin’ round in some disguise
What they hope to accomplish, the Devil alone knows
PercyB on May 20, 2009 at 4:47 PM
Come on man dont be such a Mary. He got a few shots from cops in the heat of the moment after trying to kill one of them and endangering however many others with his actions. You cant weep for him because of that then try and hedge by saying you wont care if inmates beat him up in jail.
He tried to kill a cop and got a beating.
Dash on May 20, 2009 at 4:47 PM
Which you conveniently leave out of all of your posts.
Scrappy on May 20, 2009 at 4:47 PM
I think cops have to start putting a bullet between the criminals eyes instead of doing the pit maneuver or following the criminal. This way they can safely direct the dead criminals car to the side of the highway and save everyone time and money. He attempted murder with a deadly weapon we felt the need to end this NOW. Before a cop or innocent bystander is dead.
Tremmy on May 20, 2009 at 4:50 PM
Hey Percy, do you by chance wear a diaper and drink from a giant baby bottle? That’s the picture I got whilst reading your post.
Keyser-Soze on May 20, 2009 at 4:51 PM
I hate it when cops go Judge Dredd, but damn, that guy deserved a beating.
flipflop on May 20, 2009 at 4:55 PM
High Speed chase,
Obvious resisting arrest,
could’ve killed a whole lot of
victims along his deadly fleeing,
police officers are also trying not to carrine
into vechicles and minimize carnage,
everybody is pumping and moving,and Ka-Blewy
the clown rolls the van,
could’ve slammed into a parked car on the
shoulder,or an officer giving out a ticket,
yes,its unfortunate that he recieved a
beating!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
canopfor on May 20, 2009 at 4:55 PM
Alma 51:34
Oldnuke on May 20, 2009 at 4:55 PM
We had an officer run over in Corpus Christi Texas 2 months back – Stuart Alexander – after he had laid down spikes to stop a fleeing felon. The guy deliberately swerved his car to avoid the spikes and drove up onto the median where Alexander was and ran him over, killing him.
Had this criminal in the video been successful in killing that officer he aimed his van at, and if he had killed others during this chase, nobody would be crying over some rough treatment from the police.
Some here would still be decrying the treatment the offender got even if there were dead people several miles back down the road from this perp’s actions.
Yes these officers over-reacted. But they didn’t kill him. He narrowly avoided killing anyone (including a poli ce officer he did deliberately try to kill) and they didn’t kill him. That’s how most people would look at it.
manofaiki on May 20, 2009 at 4:57 PM
Its self-evidently true that law enforcement officers shouldnt beat up a person immediately after they’ve been thrown from a vehicle. I Got that.
But it must also be true that one should not attempt to murder a cop by running him down during a high-speed chase (the reason for which we dont know from this vid, btw).
I’d fire the cops or at least suspend the shit out of them.
But I would also give a 25-life sentence to the driver who tried to murder the cop by running over him. And if I am the judge in the inevitable “racist cops beat a black man who didnt do nuthin wrong” civil litigation I toss the suit out with the day’s garbage.
there are no good guys in this clip.
Mike D. on May 20, 2009 at 4:57 PM
It is not for that which you think that he is weeping for.
semloh on May 20, 2009 at 4:57 PM
yes.
Grow Fins on May 20, 2009 at 4:58 PM
Violent, yes. But not as one-sided as the Adam vs. Kris American Idol finale last night.
That was brutal.
ScottMcC on May 20, 2009 at 4:58 PM
Kick him in the ding ding!
HornetSting on May 20, 2009 at 5:01 PM
Then you’re in no place to chide these officers, considering they actually went through it, and you didn’t.
MadisonConservative on May 20, 2009 at 5:01 PM
I’m off to turn some beef into carbon dioxide.
A poster above said reprimand and not fire. I’ll go that far, but to cast aside a warrior because he went to war is like cutting off your foot because it tripped on the carpet.
Later (*provided Andy Taylor doesn’t send Barney Fife to silence me)
Limerick on May 20, 2009 at 5:02 PM
definitely no excuse, but things do happen in the heat of the moment… especially when they just saw this guy endanger countless lives and nearly run their colleague over.
RightWinged on May 20, 2009 at 5:02 PM
The people commenting with their panties all in a wad, including AP, don’t have a clue what happened prior to or immediately following this short segment. You got one juicy video bite of a rather involved pursuit. I also get that feeling AP doesn’t care for cops and must have had his feathers ruffled somewhere along his tender lifespan. Tell me all you wise observers, if you were approaching a fleeing felon who just attempted to take a human life and who might have a weapon tucked under his belt, hand or what have you, would walk up and say “would you please get up and cooperatsy pleasy?” Bunch of turds many of you. You likey would be the first to complain if you were a victim and the cops didn’t respond quickly or harshly enough.
wepeople on May 20, 2009 at 5:03 PM
Yes I am. I hold cops to a higher standard.
Grow Fins on May 20, 2009 at 5:04 PM
My dear chap, I never would have dreamt of depriving you of your moment of fantasy. Alas, a moment was all I could spare.
PercyB on May 20, 2009 at 5:06 PM
Yawn. The guy tried to kill the cop at the beginning of the clip. He’s lucky he’s alive.
TheBigOldDog on May 20, 2009 at 5:06 PM
I think we should fire every police officer in the world. Then we’ll all be better off.
ProCannonFodder on May 20, 2009 at 5:07 PM
If you’re proclaiming their judgment to be better than yours, then how can you justify your judgment of their actions?
MadisonConservative on May 20, 2009 at 5:07 PM
.
There is no context where summary justice is warranted, necessary, or legal. If you are for the rule of law, this is reprehensible.
ronsfi on May 20, 2009 at 5:08 PM
+ 5
ExcessivelyDiverted on May 20, 2009 at 5:08 PM
Do not worry about those officers being out of a job. I will hire them. I can always use men like that. Of course they will have to start at the bottom.
PootyPoot on May 20, 2009 at 5:09 PM
Vigilante justice fosters oppression, vigilante justice fosters servitude, vigilante justice fosters cruelty; perhaps even more abominable is the fact that it fosters idiocy.
Tav on May 20, 2009 at 5:14 PM
A Cop’s Judgement SHOULD be better than an average person’s, but that’s not the case with these guys. If I was in their shoes, I would probably the exact same thing and that’s why I SHOULD NEVER BE A COP.
With great power comes great responsibility.
justfinethanks on May 20, 2009 at 5:14 PM
I think we need more of these beatings and more of these videos to appear in the public eye. I can think of no better format deliver the message that it is STUPID to run from the law. Shady lawyers, biased juries, clueless judges and asinine legal loopholes provide plenty of reasons that idiots assume they can get away with crime.
We are flawed humans. We cannot begin to understand the adrenaline involved with nearly getting run over followed by a high-speed pursuit. Is it wrong to beat an unconscious man? Of course. But it is worse to put yourself in that position in the first place. He should be thankful he is alive after that accident. (if you read the article you will see that the thug didn’t even know he was beaten). Let him count his blessings while relaxing in the penitentiary.
cannonball on May 20, 2009 at 5:15 PM
Why is it that the people who defend the cops in these threads invariably drag out the “you must have been roughed up by a cop at some point” BS?
There are probably other scenarios, but the two main situations when a cop can get really physical with a suspect are when he’s violently resisting arrest or when he poses an imminent danger to others. That’s it. If you want to live in a society where cops are judge, jury and executioner, I’m sure there are plenty of places like that.
But here in the US, cops can’t do this. Period.
flipflop on May 20, 2009 at 5:15 PM
When in doubt, turn to Chris Rock for wisdom:
Po-Po
Dagnar on May 20, 2009 at 5:15 PM
Didn’t read all the posts, but is it really police brutality if the guy is unconscious? Kind of like being too drunk at a party, it was a hell of a time, but you don’t remember it.
MDWNJ on May 20, 2009 at 5:16 PM
Pearls of wisdom from megs mccain.
TTheoLogan on May 20, 2009 at 5:17 PM
Another example of these scumbags “protecting” and “serving”…
The Dean on May 20, 2009 at 5:17 PM
.
True. It’s creepy how many commenters are getting off on watching an unconscious person getting their a55 kicked. Sick.
ronsfi on May 20, 2009 at 5:18 PM
Cops are paid because they are in dangerous situations. Just like in tort law, it is not self-defense when you are beating someone that is already unconscious and no threat to you.
By a reasonable person standard, what these cops did was unacceptable. By the standard we should hold our police to, it’s completely unacceptable.
TTheoLogan on May 20, 2009 at 5:18 PM
In this case, that would mean the cops in this video.
pseudonominus on May 20, 2009 at 5:19 PM
.
Note to Ladies. Don’t get drunk at a party around this one.
ronsfi on May 20, 2009 at 5:19 PM
I think that we can very easily logically derive how Barry “Mr. Conservative” Goldwater would have felt about those “police officers”.
We hear praise of a power-wielding, arm-twisting President who “gets his program through Congress” by knowing the use of power. Throughout the course of history, there have been many other such wielders of power. There have even been dictators who regularly held plebiscites, in which their dictatorships were approved by an Ivory-soap-like percentage of the electorate. But their countries were not free, nor can any country remain free under such despotic power. Some of the current worship of powerful executives may come from those who admire strength and accomplishment of any sort. Others hail the display of Presidential strength simply because they approve of the result reached by the use of power. This is nothing less than the totalitarian philosophy that the end justifies the means If ever there was a philosophy of government totally at war with that of the Founding Fathers, it is this one.
- Barry Goldwater
MB4 on May 20, 2009 at 5:19 PM
Have to admit… maybe it was due to a stressful day at the office… but I laughed out loud when that guy flew out the window of his rolling van… yep… goin’ straight to hay-ell I am… but I really was needing a laugh.
Fighting Eyeball on May 20, 2009 at 5:19 PM
Ha-ha. Now I like you Percy. You’re a good sport.
Keyser-Soze on May 20, 2009 at 5:19 PM
Nah, let’s just start with the ones who beat unconsious perps.
I’m troubled by how many people think a police officer’s job is to exact justice, and not to apprehend suspected criminals. While anger and adrenaline are a reality of all human beings, the police are supposed to be able to suppress that in order to do their jobs. Many here argue the “if you were in that possition” angle, and it doesn’t fit. Most of us are not police and judging by responses not emotionally fit to be police (myself included).
Use all the force necessary to catch the guy (not much more is necessary when he’s laying unconsious on the side of the road), and exact your justice when you testify against the guy in a court of law…
Scrappy on May 20, 2009 at 5:20 PM
kingsjester on May 20, 2009 at 4:44 PM
then we in agreement, we are all hypocrites…especially you
robertnyc212 on May 20, 2009 at 5:21 PM
He tried to kill a cop. When you do that the gloves come off. He deserved every bit of it.
Vegi on May 20, 2009 at 5:21 PM
Don’t fool yourself.
They were pissed because he tried to kill a cop.
The other “countless lives” he endangered….those were just civillians. Nothing to get worked up over, in thier book.
pseudonominus on May 20, 2009 at 5:22 PM
The only unfortunate thing is the camera was rolling. I have no sympathy for thugs like that.
jzzr83 on May 20, 2009 at 5:22 PM
An armchair lawyer we have here.
TTheoLogan on May 20, 2009 at 5:23 PM
Raw human instinct and emotion in action…cops aren’t robots.
Wyznowski on May 20, 2009 at 5:23 PM
The law apparently does. Take a class on tort law in any state and you’ll see you are not entitled to beat someone that is unconscious for self-defense or any other reason.
TTheoLogan on May 20, 2009 at 5:24 PM
It doesn’t take sympathy for the perp to conclude the cops were wrong.
flipflop on May 20, 2009 at 5:25 PM
What, in your view cops are a special caste or clan, deserving of more consideration than an ordinary citizen?
That is a peasant’s outlook.
pseudonominus on May 20, 2009 at 5:25 PM
“And you wonder why conservatives are viewed negatively.” puh-leeze dude…a bunch of anonomous people on a board commenting on something that has no ramifications to them…can’t we have fun sometime? I mean it’s not like we’re throwing molotovs at RNC conventions or the military at some port in Oregon. Lighten up Fins.
DanMan on May 20, 2009 at 5:27 PM
When one has been through as many trials and tribulations as I have, even though most of them never happened, one must develop a certain sense of humour.
PercyB on May 20, 2009 at 5:27 PM
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