Video: Hey, how about another long, angry debate over a police brutality clip?
posted at 3:44 pm on May 20, 2009 by Allahpundit
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There’s not much to debate in this one, actually, but the conclusion is so spectacular/awful that I can’t not post it. It’s weird how there almost seem to be trends with these brutality vids that catch on online: For the last few years it was nothing but arguments over proper taser use and lately it’s been nothing but arguments over what constitutes excessive force, ranging from minor examples to more serious ones to out-and-out homicide. This one falls somewhere in the middle-to-extreme end of the spectrum.
All five cops involved have been fired, needless to say.
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Down here in North Carolina, “He deserved a beatin’” is a valid defense. From the short clip, which obviously is not the entire story, he looked like he deserved something extra special.
windbag on May 20, 2009 at 9:12 PM
Buckle up!
kara26 on May 20, 2009 at 9:24 PM
Why do so many people cling to this ” He went after a cop, he deserves what he gets” mantra. If someone goes after my brother and I subsequently go find the guy and give him what he deserves, I go to jail. What is the difference here? Nevermind the obvious point that the guy is lying motionless and knocked out while getting beat by 1/2 dozen officers sworn to uphold the law.
I try to be understanding with situations cops face, but come on. Their lives are no more valuable than yours or mine, why do they get to deliver their own brand of justice when one of their friends is put in harms way? (a harm that he knowingly applied for?)
stewardoftruth on May 20, 2009 at 9:27 PM
Not, if the guy attacks your brother and seconds later you beat the crap out of him. No…welll…errr…most fly over country juries wouldn’t hold you guilty.
Tim Burton on May 20, 2009 at 9:45 PM
Why is someone who kills a cop worse than someone who kills your sister? Or daughter? or me?
Cops are people, they are not more special than anyone else and are not allowed special freedoms to operate outside of the law that they are supposed to uphold.
stewardoftruth on May 20, 2009 at 9:45 PM
Say the guy throws a punch, misses, then runs away and gets knocked out by a tree that he didn’t see. Can I then still go up to his motionless body and stomp on his face for a while?
stewardoftruth on May 20, 2009 at 9:48 PM
As long as it is not on camera and all the witnesses like you, you can….
Tim Burton on May 20, 2009 at 9:50 PM
Why wasn’t he wearing his seatbelt? How thoughtless and careless of him. Once we have universal health coverage I hope that will encourage everyone to start wearing his or her seatbelts. It’s just not fair to the rest of us. We need to teach our children how inconsiderate it is to allow yourself to be tossed out of a stolen vehicle like that at the end of a murderous pursuit. By all means lets sue the police for chasing him in the first place.
Pole-Cat on May 20, 2009 at 10:02 PM
Brilliant point! Now say that out loud, real slow and think about it…
Pole-Cat on May 20, 2009 at 10:16 PM
What’s the problem? This guy endangered lives all over the freeway.
The cops should have received medals.
Sorry, but my “give a crap” regarding people like this is broken. Endanger innocent lives like this guy did and whatever you get, you deserve. Screw him.
NoDonkey on May 20, 2009 at 10:20 PM
“Cops are people, they are not more special than anyone else and are not allowed special freedoms to operate outside of the law that they are supposed to uphold.”
Well yeah, they are. They get to speed, point guns at people, pretend they’re crooks, all kinds of things. The point you seem to have no clue about is when someone is willing to attack a police officer, they show a special disregard for the law. They are usually in the commision of a crime and are desperate or crazy enough to attack an obviously armed government official. If that doesn’t give them pause, the rest of us are fodder if we come up against them. I would have a hard time holding my emotions in check if someone tried to kill my friends. Should they have beaten that guy? No. Can I understand why they did? You bet!
gitarfan on May 20, 2009 at 10:22 PM
Absolutely NOT. The little bit of roughing up he got is NOT the punishment for the crime. The punishment for the crime should be life in prison, or given his record, potentially the death penalty.
What he got was a roughing up. Unproffessional? Definitely. Illegal use of force? Not in my opinion.
Don’t want to get punched in the face a few times – BEFORE you go to prison? Then DON’T try to KILL a person.
KMC1 on May 20, 2009 at 10:30 PM
ANOTHER Brilliant point! Now say that out loud, real slow and think about it…
Pole-Cat on May 20, 2009 at 10:36 PM
I URGE You. The next time your life or that of someone you love is in danger, please, DO NOT call the Police to help you. Since you obviously hold them in such disregard, it would only dishonor you to ask them to help such a fine, upstanding pillar of the community as yourself, in a time of need. Hopefully that would NOT be right about a couple minutes after a great guy like our friend in the video, Anthony Shannon Warren, has run over your wife, daughter or son, while you’re standing there helplessly watching the life drain out of them.
Obviously, you need more life experience before you should allow yourself to weigh in on these things.
KMC1 on May 20, 2009 at 10:37 PM
They risk life and limb everyday so they can end getting
fired. I side with the cops. . They’re in battle from
day one with little defense from the public or Hot Air.
Texyank on May 20, 2009 at 10:41 PM
Under what circumstances is it ever appropriate to attack an unconscious person? What makes it even more appropriate if the person attacking is an agent of the state?
I swear, many of you “conservatives” are more like communists. It is amazing how many of you would love to live in a police state.
The point made earlier in this thread nails all of you: you’re acting on emotion in defending those cops, an extremely liberal trait. Either the Rule of Law means something, or it doesn’t. Get with the fricking program. Do you want a civilization, or a police state run by occasionally-well mannered barbarians who think they can take the law into their own hands whenever the hell they want.
Now will come a ton of posts calling me a “liberal” and a pansy and how I can’t judge because I’m not a cop, etc. Again, all responses based on emotion. None of you can articulate why it is appropriate for an agent of the state to attack an unconscious person. I’d like to see you try.
Sydney Carton on May 20, 2009 at 10:42 PM
I fully agree. They should have waited until he was conscious, and away from cameras.
OldEnglish on May 20, 2009 at 11:04 PM
I watched the video, and a couple of things stand out…First the driver of the mini van was heading towards the cop with the stop strip before the strip was even deployed. The officer deployiing the strip had the best intentions, but he needlessly put himself in danger as the van was way to close for a safe deployment. Officers following the mini van only saw the officer get struck, and did not know that he was back on his feet. Finally, the reaction of the officers at the stop was wrong, no two ways about it. I’ve seen the end of a few chases in my career and know the adrenalin in some cops will cause a violent reation, this is not an excuse. Were the reactions justifiable, no. Is it a reaction of human emotions juiced on adrenalin, probably. Better training, closer supervisoin are a couple of answers, but remember, somewhere an honest person released that video, it didn’t just appear. Cops can be their harshest critics on themselves and feloow officers. We don’t need this type of behavior out there. It make our jobs more difficult when the public doen’t trust us to do the right thing.
ChicagoBlues on May 20, 2009 at 11:27 PM
That’ll work .
Texyank on May 20, 2009 at 11:27 PM
“I swear, many of you “conservatives” are more like communists. It is amazing how many of you would love to live in a police state.”
You obviously don’t know what a police state is if this is your example.
Liberal, pansy. I didn’t want you to go away disappointed.
gitarfan on May 20, 2009 at 11:35 PM
Good riddance that those cops are now unemployed.
modnar on May 20, 2009 at 11:45 PM
The perp almost runs over and kills a cop, but his fellow officers aren’t supposed to lose it on the guy? They are men not robots. It wasn’t right, but it is excusable given the situation.
Stickeehands on May 21, 2009 at 12:14 AM
They certainly deserve to be fired, anyone stupid enough to do that on camera is too stupid to be a cop.
jarodea on May 21, 2009 at 12:16 AM
Cops were way out of line but if you play the game you live by the rules. Run over some cop in bubbaland and you’ll probably get roughed up at the very least.
That being said the government has to evenhandedly dispense justice, which means some desk time for these punch happy peace officers.
Rob Taylor on May 21, 2009 at 1:49 AM
I have no problem with the police doing what they have to do to keep themselves safe and to apprehend criminals. If in the process of trying to catch this guy, he was shot through the eye, run off the road and flew through the windshield, was pummeled and had his spine snapped… I’m not worried about it. Don’t resist.
Kicking and beating a dead or unconscious criminal is well beyond what the police are called to do, however. We absolutely do not want to live in a society where justice is carried out on the streets as opposed to the court of law.
One thing you folks defending this behavior forget: Yes, it was a slimeball jackass thug this time they lost their temper, but what about next time? Maybe its you because you talked back during a traffic stop. Maybe its your brother who’s stumbling drunk out of a bar at 2am and mouthing off.
Were the cops heated? Risking their lives? Dealing with a thug who probably deserved it? Yes yes and yes.
But to me, that’s the whole description of a cop’s job. If they can’t resist giving in to emotion and pummeling an unconscious criminal, they probably shouldn’t be in this position in the first place.
12thMonkey on May 21, 2009 at 2:16 AM
IMO a majority of police seek the job because they feel it gives them a degree of power over their fellow citizens they would be unable to attain in any other field of work.
So I would agree with those who think it tends to attract people who are inclined to abuse their power a bit – but these silly little beatings after the perp has put their lives and others in danger really don’t elicit much sympathy from me for the ‘victim’.
I’d have given them each a two week paid vacatio….errrr suspension, and maybe a sensitivity training class as ‘window dressing for the public’.
They deserve some latitude when engaging someone who has no regard for human life.
Now if this was just some guy they pulled over for speeding who got a little lippy, then I would have a different opinion.
Mr Purple on May 21, 2009 at 3:42 AM
So the purpose of the “roughing up” was what? As you describe it it is exactly what I said, a punishment, it serves no other purpose. So you are in support of a legal system where law enforcement decide on whatever punishment they want to deal out prior to there being a trial and verdict. Great system there.
Scrappy on May 21, 2009 at 3:49 AM
Why are so many people here making this straw man argument? I haven’t seen a single person here show sympathy for the jerk who they were chasing. Just people thinking that perhaps cops aren’t supposed to be exacting revenge by beating on an unconsious man that is no longer requiring much force to subdue. Justice is to be achieved in a court, not by a lynch mob.
Scrappy on May 21, 2009 at 3:56 AM
Very well said.
Scrappy on May 21, 2009 at 3:57 AM
Crime and punishment. If we had an effective system, this perp would not have been a repeat offender, doing the same sort of thing again – with no regard for innocent lives.
I don’t know why the cops did this, but i would want to do it out of frustration at a system that rewards such thugs with free board and lodging where – to look at him – he gets to choose a boyfriend for the duration.
OldEnglish on May 21, 2009 at 4:03 AM
At the time of the arrest I doubt these police knew that this guy was a repeat offender. I’m not going to argue that the system is perfect and everyone gets the justice they deserve (but I will say it’s better than most places), but I really don’t think I want to live in a country where the police get to decide on the spot what extra punishments you deserve.
Scrappy on May 21, 2009 at 4:09 AM
Neither do I, but the system we have just isn’t working. Perhaps the behaviour of the cops is an indication of that. From a personal point of view, I don’t know how they can keep hauling them in front of a judge, only to see them back on the street, doing the same thing again.
OldEnglish on May 21, 2009 at 4:40 AM
The only attempted homicide in this clip happens at 0:08, when the perp tries to hit the cop throwing down the spike strip.
Sorry, AP. When the police have to chase you down, they’re bringing a butt kicking with them. Why fight it? It’s human nature.
gridlock2 on May 21, 2009 at 5:37 AM
done. I’m not saying that the cops job isn’t dangerous. it is. but that is no surprise, they know full well the dangers when they sign up for the job. Why should we lose our minds with outrage when an officer is put in a dangerous spot as if his life is somehow more valuable than the convenience store clerk who is held at gunpoint?
and done. A cops life still is no more valuable than yours. Cops shouldnt be given a pass to act like thugs when one of their pals ALMOST gets hurt.
stewardoftruth on May 21, 2009 at 6:23 AM
I need not state my opinion on this, but I will anyway. I’m just glad the police defacto denounced their behavior by firing them. Even their superiors agreed this was wrong.
Uncommon.
Him clipping that cop was awful and deserves a severe prison term, but nothing justifies the beating. It takes a really special kind of person to beat on a potentially broken guy who has just been ejected in a violent accident. Not surprised to see so many thugs in blue – that’s typical.
Also typical that they tried to cover it up, and only gave the DA the complete tape by accident. Imagine what the discussion would be like if the tape of the beating never came out. How often do you think it doesn’t come out at all? And sometimes, those people are Innocent.
If you can’t retain your professionalism at all times, you are a disgrace and should turn in your badge before you further stain the uniform. Our 18 year old soldiers show so much more maturity than these “pigs”.
DreadWolf on May 21, 2009 at 6:26 AM
Sorry but scumbag get’s his just desserts.
Almost killed a cop. I remember watching a video of these car thieves that tried to drive off with a cop on the roof of the car. He pulled out his firearm and blasted them through the windshield. It was ruled justifiable.
scrubbiedude on May 21, 2009 at 7:30 AM
Purpose? There is no purpose. I think you’re just caught up in the semantics here. I’m not advocating two seperate punishment systems as you seem to be indicating. But in the course of being arrested, at the culmination of a chase during which you tried to kill someone, a few kicks in the ribs and a couple good shots to the face are not unreasonable in my opinion. Why should a criminal be coddled? Especially one like this one, who was obviously guilty of such an egregious crime?
People like you need to put aside some theoretical standard of perfection, and accept that when people are involved, things will never be perfect. I don’t see the need to lose 5 highly trained officers over some piece of shit criminal like this guy getting a black eye. Should the officers be reprimanded? Absolutely. Should they be fired? Absolutely NOT.
I bet if you went back and looked through each of their records, every one of them has some instance of saving someone, comforting someone, protecting someone or of putting themselves in danger to protect us. A pattern of abuse and an instance of abuse are not the same thing. And again, if you don’t want to get punched in the face while being arrested, try not getting arrested to begin with. If you’re still going to go ahead with the getting arrested part, at least try not to run someone down with a van and shatter their leg.
KMC1 on May 21, 2009 at 9:01 AM
Purpose? There is no purpose. I think you’re just caught up in the semantics here. I’m not advocating two seperate punishment systems as you seem to be indicating. But in the course of being arrested, at the culmination of a chase during which you tried to kill someone, a few kicks in the ribs and a couple good shots to the face are not unreasonable in my opinion. Why should a criminal be coddled? Especially one like this one, who was obviously guilty of such an egregious crime?
People like you need to put aside some theoretical standard of perfection, and accept that when people are involved, things will never be perfect. I don’t see the need to lose 5 highly trained officers over some piece of shit criminal like this guy getting a black eye. Should the officers be reprimanded? Absolutely. Should they be fired? Absolutely NOT.
I bet if you went back and looked through each of their records, every one of them has some instance of saving someone, comforting someone, protecting someone or of putting themselves in danger to protect us. A pattern of abuse and an instance of abuse are not the same thing. And again, if you don’t want to get punched in the face while being arrested, try not getting arrested to begin with. If you’re still going to go ahead with the getting arrested part, at least try not to run someone down with a van and shatter their leg.
KMC1 on May 21, 2009 at 9:02 AM
It make our jobs more difficult when the public doen’t trust us to do the right thing.
ChicagoBlues
Bingo! Every incident like that makes us civilians a little more wary. You can say I have nothing to fear from the police if I’m a law-abinding citizen, but I’m just not so sure of that. I don’t know anymore what kind of person is behind that badge and gun. My fellow citizens count on me to behave properly (standards) and there are sanctions if I don’t. We must be able to depend on the police to live up to the standards set by their departments. Without that trust, there is fear, resentment and suspicion. None of those will make the job of policing any easier.
SKYFOX on May 21, 2009 at 9:30 AM
So you’re justifying a beating that has no purpose (even though everything you say to describe it indicates that it is punishment for being a “obviously guilty” criminal – you just want to call it something else – but I’m the one jugling semantics).
It’s a purposeless (by your own description) beating administered by government officials. And you think that’s a good thing.
No thanks.
Scrappy on May 21, 2009 at 12:24 PM
OK, the cops may have over-reacted a little, but, this idiot tried to kill people with his car, and, why should anyone feel sorry for him; compassionate, yes, because if he had a grain of common sense he never would have done anything so stupid. He brought it on himself, and, his lawyers will probably collect millions for him, just like they did for Rodney King and other “poor” victims of police brutality….
DL13 on May 21, 2009 at 1:12 PM
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