“Thomas Paine”: An open letter to Barack Obama
posted at 9:45 pm on May 20, 2009 by Allahpundit
Yeah, this guy again. Don’t blame me; you love him, so I’m happy to give you new vids. My quibble this time is with his insistence that formal declarations of war in Afghanistan and Iraq might have made a difference to soldiers stationed overseas insofar as they ensured those troops went to battle with “the full support of we, the people.” Would they have? If so, how? The Authorization of Military Force in Afghanistan drew exactly one no vote, which is more than enough to pass a war declaration. Does anyone here think war, formally declared by the U.S. Congress, would have deterred any of the nutroots shrieking or protests we’ve seen over the years? If not, I don’t know what to conclude about this guy … except that he’s a likely Ron Paul voter.
Blowback
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Would vietnam have got any more support if it were a declared war?
I don’t freakin think so.
Complain about something worth complaining about. Try the abrogation of the 10th amendment, please.
Spiritk9 on May 20, 2009 at 9:48 PM
Nah, I think it’s kinda weird. Will “Thomas Paine” be giving us his view of Christianity? LOL
ddrintn on May 20, 2009 at 9:49 PM
Except Declaration of War comes with some sort of responsibility. Authorization to use force means the Congress defers its constitutional obligations to another branch of Government.
This has no relevance to the nutroots, but rest assured that the Congressmen would be much less likely to talk about how Authorization to use force basically means please talk tough.
radiofreevillage on May 20, 2009 at 9:50 PM
paulnut for sure.
homesickamerican on May 20, 2009 at 9:51 PM
Wow, he’s got new duds this time…yeah, little tired of him now.
AUINSC on May 20, 2009 at 9:51 PM
“Playing games”, so, tell me something I don’t know.
foxone on May 20, 2009 at 9:51 PM
I would have no problem with a formal declaration. It removes the wiggle room and follows the constitution.
echosyst on May 20, 2009 at 9:52 PM
Why can’t we get a young, rebelious-type Thomas Paine?
DaveS on May 20, 2009 at 9:54 PM
I wonder if there are any nude pics of him on the internet.
JiangxiDad on May 20, 2009 at 9:54 PM
I’m not sure, but it definitely would have taken one less argument off their talking points.
javamartini on May 20, 2009 at 9:54 PM
If they’re out there
I’ll find ‘em 8)
blatantblue on May 20, 2009 at 9:55 PM
Let me count the ways …
1. Are we at war now? If so … with whom? Don’t say there is a Global War on Terror – the Obama administration has nixed that term. A Declaration is formal and lasting and it would have made the word games Obama is playing much harder for him to play.
2. Congressional members of the Terrorist’s Rights Party have worked to “lose” this war ever since it became fashionable to do so – but a Declaration is formal – and shows the nation is in it – to win it. An Authorization is just that – an “Okay – you can go in until we get tired of it – or think we can torpedo you and get away with it in the eyes of public opinion”.
Also Allah – I’m not a Ronulan – but what’s your beef with them? They hate Obama as much as I do – and the enemy of my enemy is …
HondaV65 on May 20, 2009 at 9:56 PM
Rule 34 of the internet: There is porn of it. No exceptions.
MadisonConservative on May 20, 2009 at 9:58 PM
LOL. And god forbid he had any augmentation of any kind. Just another right wing hypocrite they’ll soon be saying. So far I guess he’s still under the radar, although I think he’s been featured on Beck’s tv show.
JiangxiDad on May 20, 2009 at 10:02 PM
If there were one particular country backing and sending terrorists to kill Americans we could declare war on that country. Obama, Bush, no congress in the last 12 years could do that.
Iran doesn’t qualify. They’re afraid of Persians.
Spiritk9 on May 20, 2009 at 10:02 PM
Thank God. LOL
ddrintn on May 20, 2009 at 10:06 PM
Uhm, never mind. Things happen. And i was drunk.
JiangxiDad on May 20, 2009 at 10:07 PM
red state won :)
faraway on May 20, 2009 at 10:08 PM
Off Topic, Fox Five NY is reporting FBI arrested four in NYC plotting to bomb a temple.
blatantblue on May 20, 2009 at 10:09 PM
Would not have made a twit of difference, not for long anyway. Not unless a draft had been reinstituted to cut their number and frequency of tours. Or, unless war had been declared on Islam so as to cut out all this “Islamic Nation Building” and Koran kissing and Bible burning crap.
MB4 on May 20, 2009 at 10:12 PM
The issue isn’t Thomas Paine or George Washington or even Thomas Jefferson, the issue is that progressives harbor nothing but disdain for all of our founding fathers and even greater disdain for the geniuses they were or the marvelous documents they gave us to live by.
Speakup on May 20, 2009 at 10:12 PM
Nah, couldn’t be. It’s the age of obama. Everyone LOVES each other.
HornetSting on May 20, 2009 at 10:14 PM
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm……………..
…….. Mr. Obama, Democrats, and RINOs doing what is right and not being lead by political polls and invitations to the Sunday morning news shows, but throwing every thing into a war effort to make sure it is done right, hard, fast, with the full might and furry of the United States of America thrown at an enemy to make sure our casualties are nil compared to the vast amount of dead who would do us harm, never to repeat the offense,
I just don’t see it………
Seven Percent Solution on May 20, 2009 at 10:19 PM
Love me enough to friend me on FB?
blatantblue on May 20, 2009 at 10:19 PM
I seem to recall you wishing a painful death on someone in a recent thread.
DaveS on May 20, 2009 at 10:19 PM
With the New Mussolini in the White House
And George Soros’ cheers even louder than Bill Maher’s
Now Al Gore will control the temperature in your own house
And your fate is no longer steered by your own stars
This is the dawning of the Age of Obamaius
Age of Obamanius
Obamanius! Obamanius!
Unlimited welfare spending and taxing
ACORN’s power abounding
No more Republican objections
Only Harry and Nancy’s visions
One more after another Supreme Court marxist ordination
And Conservative’s complete subjugation
This is the dawning of the Age of Obamaius
Age of Obamanius
Obamanius! Obamanius!
MB4 on May 20, 2009 at 10:21 PM
If you think these vids are “obligatory” also, AP, then why the hell do you bother? Jeebus, your condescension is blinding.
MsUnderestimated on May 20, 2009 at 10:21 PM
I like his point about halting the apology tour and sticking up for America.
You don’t really miss something until it’s gone. I would have thought those were in the “Be A President For Dummies” book.
Hog Wild on May 20, 2009 at 10:39 PM
Sink me, Sir Blatanblue, these tactics of yours will never win the fair lady’s heart
With her you must try to make a new start
Be elusive and mysterious
All woman have a secret lust for the rogue who’s a little devious
PercyB on May 20, 2009 at 10:40 PM
A declaration of war is problematical in this instance. We are not fighting nations; we are fighting an ideology of Islamic extremism that knows no borders and no distinct end date. There will be no VJ day in this one.
michaelo on May 20, 2009 at 10:45 PM
You may not like him AP, but you know he is 99% right.
I love the guy
conservnut on May 20, 2009 at 10:45 PM
Payne is far too respectful of Obama.
“Sir”? No, cur.
T J Green on May 20, 2009 at 10:47 PM
10th amendment has been defacto repealed since the signing of the 14th.
Squid Shark on May 20, 2009 at 11:00 PM
I’m sorry, but I don’t think he is a Paulian.
His invocation of Americans going overseas and shedding their blood to “make the world free” as a positive thing probably rules that out.
Because, after all, the Paulians are against us taking action against a foreign threat until the bombs are already falling on American soil and it is probably too late.
Turtler on May 20, 2009 at 11:00 PM
A declaration of war used to be required and was an important part of the power of Congress. It was also an issue for some people in Congress back during Clinton’s mission in Serbia. I would prefer that the Congress declare war, because I desire a return to obedience to the constitution, but I doubt it would make a difference to the anti-war activists.
I understand that in a modern world you have to have military actions outside a declared war, but in a case like Afghanistan I see no reason why they would not want to formerly declare war on AQ & all who support that organization. Yes, you would have to obey the rules of war but we already do that. Geneva conventions should only apply to others nations which have signed on to it, since there is no real international law. International law requires an international sovereign that is rooted in the authority of the people and we currently lack such an international structure. Any notion that there is real law beyond a nation states borders is a fallacy.
Stickeehands on May 20, 2009 at 11:04 PM
That’s irrelevent. The U.S. Constitution is our charter of government; the document that gives our government legitimacy. The only way liberty can be handed down to the next generation is if we the people demand that the government obey it-all of it-ALWAYS and without exception.
Contempt for the Constitution is why this country is in the mess it’s in. I can understand the left’s comtempt. They’re unable to fathom the concept of ordered liberty.
I’m appalled and disgusted by the selective respect shown parts of it and contempt for others by people who claim to be conservative or patriotic. If you don’t honor all of it you’re neither and you’re just as guilty of its destruction as the most vile leftist.
single stack on May 20, 2009 at 11:12 PM
I still like him
Conservative Voice on May 20, 2009 at 11:15 PM
single stack:
So, how is it contemptible to do so when not fighting a foe with a permanent “return to sender” address?
It isn’t like the founding fathers ever declared war on any of the Indian nations they fought alongside the British (on whom they did), and they realized that some situations cannot entirely fit under a simple Declaration of War.
After all, who do we declare war on?
Islam?
The Islamists?
Various nations whom the Islamists could be hiding in?
Until you clarify that, your ranting is only so much blather.
Turtler on May 20, 2009 at 11:17 PM
Zero chance of a Declaration of War. Better chance for a Declaration of Overseas Contingency Operation.
Star20 on May 20, 2009 at 11:23 PM
AP – just what the hell do YOU stand for, anyway? It’s easy to sit on the sidelines and take pot shots at someone who is brave enough to take a leadership role and be the voice to galvanize those of us who seek to take this country back from the politicians who want to run this country into the ground. It’s easy to bypass the thrust of Thomas Paine’s message and pick on one tiny element of the overall speech, as though the whole message were tainted. His message underscores the need for Obama to put AMERICA first and put an end to his Apology Tour. What is so wrong about that?
You don’t know that Mr. Paine is a Ron Paul voter any more than the rest of us. I am not one myself, but I don’t give a DAMN if Mr. Paine is. Does that somehow detract from the force of his presentations? Not as I see it, no way. His messages are right on-target.
Thank God there is someone like Mr. Paine who has the passion, ingenuity, and eloquence to speak what so many of us believe all across this Nation. At least he is standing up to be counted. That’s more than I can say for our so-called leaders in the GOP, who have yet to draw the line in the sand against Obama’s socialist agenda, who have yet to stir the passions of conservatives, and who have yet to join the battle.
If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem. I don’t see where any of what you are saying is helping to solve anything. Next time, show that you have a pair.
OneVision on May 20, 2009 at 11:26 PM
My favorite part about this clown is that he knows sooo much about the Founding Fathers that he yet to figure out that the real Tom Paine had a hard-on for the Welfare State.
cadetwithchips2 on May 20, 2009 at 11:28 PM
He’s got some good points and is very passionate about what he see’s. Many areas I can relate and agree with. As far as a RP supporter…I don’t know….jury still out.
But he said “We are City Hall” he’s correct only there are too many judges that have mudied the water of the Constitution so it does not say what it did at one time.
will sass u on May 20, 2009 at 11:36 PM
JiangxiDad on May 20, 2009 at 9:54 PM
Rule 34…Yeah I betcha there are. I’m not going to hunt for them though!!!
FontanaConservative on May 20, 2009 at 11:57 PM
Im not a Paul-nut, I dont know if this guy is, but I agree with his intent. This country is run by us not them.
Bladerunner1701 on May 21, 2009 at 12:18 AM
Dammit I wish you people would make up your minds. Last time I mentioned the 14th amendment and was ripped by more than one stating the tenets for it belonged with the 10th amendment.
W/E, you get the point.
Spiritk9 on May 21, 2009 at 12:29 AM
Ha ha, you tell em Sir.
Dollayo on May 21, 2009 at 12:32 AM
Without a War declared… how can there ever be a victory… or a treaty that brings Peace?
Or, as in South Korea, does it become a never ending commitment of troops and treasure, beyond the time when North Korea is any type of viable threat to South Korea?
Or, as in Viet Nam, does it allow Congress to declare defeat, even with what was, a military victory? (at least according to Giap’s Memoirs).
We’ve now invaded TWO (or three counting Storm, or FOUR counting one of my Dad’s wars, Korea) countries without CONGRESS doing their Constitutional duty, to declare war. The Founder’s would be appaled…. as am I…
Spin it as they will, to try to make it LEGAL, but it clearly is not what the Founder’s intended.
Romeo13 on May 21, 2009 at 12:36 AM
Other than a few minor quibbles with his wording on a few things that AP pointed out I rather like the guy.
Tell me the country wouldn’t be infinitely better off with him running things instead of Obama.
Yakko77 on May 21, 2009 at 12:40 AM
Ron Paulian?
I thought he was Jackie Masonian!
Shy Guy on May 21, 2009 at 5:28 AM
In 2008 I thought Ron Paul was a nut. But our new President of GM makes a new case in favor of Paul almost daily. By 2012 Ron Paul may be welcomed by many of his current detractors. If the ’08 election were to be held again today and the only two choices were Obama and Paul, who would you pick?
MikeA on May 21, 2009 at 6:53 AM
Thomas Paine is a blowhard.
Buy Danish on May 21, 2009 at 7:00 AM
Neither of the above.
Now if it were Obama versus Bozo the Clown, that would be a different story.
Shy Guy on May 21, 2009 at 7:34 AM
MikeA on May 21, 2009 at 7:41 AM
I have trouble believing this fellow is a Ron Paul supporter, given that in first (?) video he said we should abolish the electoral college, a purely foolish notion held by those who believe we are a democracy rather than a republic. In any event, at least Ron Paul appears to have read the Constitution, unlike the vast majority of our so-called representatives, or our citizens.
DrMagnolias on May 21, 2009 at 7:47 AM
For all his faults, McCain is not a wicked racist and conspiracy lunatic. There is no comparison between him and Paul.
So that there aren’t any doubts, Bozo would get my vote over both Obama and Paul.
Shy Guy on May 21, 2009 at 7:51 AM
AUMF does equal declaration of war, SCOTUS has so opined. Problem is, whom are we declaring war against? It is a transnational terrorist group, not a nation-state, thus it is hard to get a formal state of war against them. Same reason why normal criminal law or POW law doesn’t apply to the sea kitty fodder in Gitmo.
rbj on May 21, 2009 at 8:20 AM
Get off your high horse, AP. Relative to the Ozombies, there are too few of us to dismiss those with slightly different ideas as nutbags. Throw the anarchists in the corner, but for the rest… the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
hogfat on May 21, 2009 at 8:23 AM
Admit it, Allah, so do you, deep down.
Disturb the Universe on May 21, 2009 at 8:40 AM
A formal declaration would’ve taken *some* of the responsibility/heat off of GWB, and though it likely wouldn’t have entirely mitigated the entire backlash, phrases like “this is Bush’s war” and some of the sentiment behind it may never have occurred. *shrug*
Who knows, it’s not like ‘reason’ has played a significant part in the behavior of the nutroots left; I continually ‘fail’ when I try to project what life would be like if they acted reasonably and logically.
Midas on May 21, 2009 at 8:42 AM
Last time I checked, the constitution does not spell out the exact wording necessary for a declaration of war.
MarkTheGreat on May 21, 2009 at 8:49 AM
Actually I really like the guy! Not sure if he is a Paul Supporter, I was not. I am just a retired Vet of 21 years, a vet of Iraq, a vet of Afghanistan. I know that he is a visiting UCLA professor on history (I think). He speaks fromt the heart. You do not have to agree with everything he says, but the man has a passion. His first video he talked about abolishing the electoral college, God if we would have done that we definately would have had Al Whore as president.
sargentj on May 21, 2009 at 8:54 AM
1. The constant criticism of “Paul voters” around here seems to be a bit disingenuous. Most Paul voters support the exact same conservative values and the majority of the members here. The minority of the Paul-nuts fit into the horribly narrow stereotype that has been used to dismiss the great ideas of the rest. Additionally, as the government continues to meddle in the economy, Paul’s statements in regards to the government screwing things up the more they’re involved are proving to be pretty prescient.
2. This guy is spot on. If you disagree with him on anything here (other than the declaration of war piece), you shouldn’t dare call yourself a conservative.
webproze on May 21, 2009 at 9:00 AM
The Constitution says that congress shall have the power to declare war. When congress votes to send in the Marines to kick specific asses, isn’t that a declaration of war? Must congress use the term, “We declare war on you” to accomplish that?
Akzed on May 21, 2009 at 9:05 AM
Words mean things.
csdeven on May 21, 2009 at 9:08 AM
The Republican Party has co-opted the tea party movement and will treat the small government conservatives/libertarians of the movement in the same dismissive manner as anti-war liberals are now treated by the Democrat party. The tea party has been successfully marginalized. Despite what Glenn Beck may say, its over, Rambo. Nothing to see here.
Angry Dumbo on May 21, 2009 at 9:08 AM
The starry-eyed devotion to Ron Paul by some of his supporters is damn near identical to the devotion paid to Obama.
Really says something.
MadisonConservative on May 21, 2009 at 9:33 AM
I like it.
lostinjrz on May 21, 2009 at 9:34 AM
I hope viewers really listened carefully to the words. The “Declaration of War” was a minor issue of the speech. The major point was that We are U.S. If We do not take back control from the politicians we elected, we will no longer be united, but derided by them until they have denuded U.S. so we cannot regain control over our lives.
MSGTAS on May 21, 2009 at 9:41 AM
webprose:
Turtler on May 21, 2009 at 10:26 AM
OK, something got screwed up.
webprose:
So tell me, if only a small and irritating minority fits into that stereotype you mention, why are you voting for an isolationist, historically-challenged Anti-War candidate with ties to white supremacism and 9/11 trutherism in the first place?
And while he MAY be decent in domestic issues, how does his absolute failure to hold up in regards to foreign policy (perhaps even MORE important than domestic) get negated by that?
Turtler on May 21, 2009 at 10:26 AM
MikeA:
False dilemma and I would LOVE how you try to convince us to go for Ike II because “this time, it will SOOO work!”
How the HELL is Paul going to get his foreign chops cleaned up when he hangs out with idiots like Alex Jones and his ilk?
And if he cannot, why should we BOTHER voting for him over Obama, given their shared idioticy on foreign policy and history?
I await your response.
Turtler on May 21, 2009 at 10:30 AM
Agreed, except for the war declaration everything else makes sense, especially telling our apologist-in-chief to stop and desist.
El Coqui on May 21, 2009 at 11:02 AM
Meh, I’m getting a little tired of this guy. Doesn’t he have any other tricks?
joe_doufu on May 21, 2009 at 11:24 AM
We can only hope. If not you can basically look at my multiple posts about Christianity and that should suffice.
LevStrauss on May 21, 2009 at 12:37 PM
It could have gotten a lot more scrutiny by Congress previous to voting for an official declaration, the Dems who voted for it could not use that weasly “but make sure you go to the UN” bs, that’s for sure. It would have taken a lot of the wiggle room out of Congress. Maybe we would have uncovered the disingenous marketing plan before it has cost us over a trillion, not to mention future repair costs, the opportunity cost of diverting resources elsewhere, and the health care costs of all the injured troops. Also thousands of dead soldiers that did not need to be.
LevStrauss on May 21, 2009 at 12:45 PM
I guess I could say the main difference between my view and his is that in Age of Reason he seems to be hung up on this prophet-poet comparison. He went on and on trying to say that the word prophet is basically synonomous to the word poet. Ahh its all Greek to me.
LevStrauss on May 21, 2009 at 12:54 PM
As in, your post really says that you didn’t actually read that which you criticize, i.e., the following text: “I am not one [a Ron Paul voter] myself . . . .”
OneVision on May 21, 2009 at 6:43 PM
Lost the link. In case anyone is rummaging around the vault and wants to see the video: link here.
Christian Conservative on May 23, 2009 at 1:43 PM