Military confiscates, destroys Pashto-language Bibles on Afghan base

posted at 3:16 pm on May 19, 2009 by Allahpundit

Tapper did the heavy lifting on this, including digging up the clips, so read him for full background. After the story broke, the Pentagon was quick to emphasize that none of the Bibles shown were actually distributed to the locals, but pay attention to the sergeant in the second clip describing his time in Iraq. Evidently, the controls aren’t quite as tight there. I’m curious to see what sort of inevitable pushback there’ll be in the comments as the law on this pretty clear, but one thing we might all agree on: Why’d they destroy the books instead of donating them to libraries or ministries in the United States? Surely there must be a few Pashto- or Dari-speaking Christians here who wouldn’t have minded a free Bible in their native tongue. Exit question via David Brody: Would they have burned Korans if Muslim soldiers were caught trying to hand those out?

Update: Changed the headline from “burns” to “destroys” because Brody’s the only source I’ve seen for the manner in which they destroyed.

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When I was at sea, I did not stop working on shabbat, I did not keep kosher and I was not able to fast on Yom Kippur. Why? Because it was not possible or practical while I did my job. I was a sailor first and a Jew second. G-d in his wisdom understands.
If Jesus wants these people to get the word, the actions and kindness of these soldiers can be a testament to the faith, the existence of the Pashto bibles shows an intent to proselytize that has no place in a war like this.

Squid Shark on May 19, 2009 at 3:40 PM

For a Christian, Christ’s directive to proselytize takes precedence over any worldly needs. It is more important than life itself. This is why Christian missionaries risk their lives daily going into countries where it means death for them to proselytize. This is the single most important outwardly action a Christian can make. Yes, preventing Christians from handing out Bibles is suppression of religion. Burning them after taking them up is just gross disrespect.

Buford on May 19, 2009 at 3:50 PM


OK seriously, the bibles would not be there if we were not there in a military action. They have no reason to be passing out ANY kind of religious articles. They are a military force for chrissakes not a bunch of Jesuits.

Squid Shark on May 19, 2009 at 3:35 PM

Apparently the Jesuits were busy welcoming and giving our Pro Choice President an honorary degree so they were you know busy but not busy converting anyone to anything…it appears to be quite the other way around.

Dr Evil on May 19, 2009 at 3:51 PM

Suppression of religon

sonofdy on May 19, 2009 at 3:21 PM

How? They’re allowed to hold services on base.

Allahpundit on May 19, 2009 at 3:23 PM

It most certainly is suppression of religion. All Christians are called to spread the Gospel. This comes from the very words of Christ himself, “Go out to all the world and make disciples of all men.”

Goldenavatar on May 19, 2009 at 3:51 PM

sven10077 on May 19, 2009 at 3:48 PM

I believe Shinto was disestablished immediately after the war. And the occupying powers saw Shinto as a government-run cult.

amerpundit on May 19, 2009 at 3:51 PM

Shinto and Buddhism is pretty low grade religion compared to Islam and Christianity.

Squid Shark on May 19, 2009 at 3:50 PM

What exactly is your definition of a low grade religion?

Upstater85 on May 19, 2009 at 3:51 PM

Shinto and Buddhism is pretty low grade religion compared to Islam and Christianity.

Squid Shark on May 19, 2009 at 3:50 PM

I’ll be sure to let 1/7th or so of the world know their faith is not up to snuff….

let’s see add in Hinduism and it is more like 1/3d…

sven10077 on May 19, 2009 at 3:52 PM

I believe Shinto was disestablished immediately after the war. And the occupying powers saw Shinto as a government-run cult.

amerpundit on May 19, 2009 at 3:51 PM

If that’s the case, one could argue that Islam is a government cult or Catholicism is a cult of the Vatican.

Upstater85 on May 19, 2009 at 3:52 PM

I believe Shinto was disestablished immediately after the war. And the occupying powers saw Shinto as a government-run cult.

amerpundit on May 19, 2009 at 3:51 PM

Shinto still endures, and truth be told if anything it proves the point regarding the military, faith, and conquest more….

sven10077 on May 19, 2009 at 3:52 PM

The outrage of many Christians. You may not see them burning cars, but that doesn’t mean they’re not outraged.

So it’s not dangerous. My point exactly. Maybe they thought it was more important to make sure there’s no outrage among the local Muslims.

radiofreevillage on May 19, 2009 at 3:53 PM

battleoflepanto1571 on May 19, 2009 at 3:36 PM

Dittos. In fact, DOUBLE dittos.

Ironic, ain’t it? We (non-muslims) constantly apologize, accommodate, and retreat. Muslims constantly harangue, attack, and punish. Oh – and behead, mutilate, kill, blow up, etc.

I don’t see a peaceful end to this at all.

A favorite teaching of personal and family counselors about enablers – takers keep taking and givers keep giving, until the giver gets tired. I am tired up to here!!

fred5678 on May 19, 2009 at 3:53 PM

sven10077 on May 19, 2009 at 3:49 PM

If you say so, then let the missionary do it, not the soldier.

BTW, I can think of a few third world s**tholes run by “Christian” societies….but the only one run by Jews is a superpower :)

Squid Shark on May 19, 2009 at 3:53 PM

Would they have burned Korans if Muslim soldiers were caught trying to hand those out?

No. Bcs the people responsible for this stupidity of political correctness are stinking dhimmis at heart.

Badger40 on May 19, 2009 at 3:53 PM

Sorry, boys. You can shoot them, but you can’t hand them bibles.

Listening to the pompous windbag from BBC, it’s pretty clear that BBC’s mind is made up on this. That said, I’d imagine that BBC wouldn’t have objected quite so strongly to Muslim soldiers handing out Korans… I guess that’s different, isn’t it?

morganfrost on May 19, 2009 at 3:53 PM

It most certainly is suppression of religion. All Christians are called to spread the Gospel. This comes from the very words of Christ himself, “Go out to all the world and make disciples of all men.”

Goldenavatar on May 19, 2009 at 3:51 PM

And the guys the troops are there to fight believe their god called them to kill all nonbelievers.
Both sides should focus on different parts of their gospel and leave other people the hell alone.

Trent1289 on May 19, 2009 at 3:54 PM

This is NOT against the US Constitution, Mr. Aljazeera BBC Jay Bays.

Brian Hughes SAYS that none of the people were trying to learn scriptures in the Iraqi tongue. Mr. Hughes INSISTED that no soldier even wanted to read any of the scriptures in the Iraqi languages. That is terribly presumptuous and a rudely false claim.

“Jay Bays, The Pentagon” is NOT a Pentagon employee or spokesperson, just standing in front of the building that Mr. Aljazeera BBC Bays presumes to be the authority spokesperson.

The bibles were offered as GIFTS to friends and friendly associates in business, not bribes, not to strangers, not as the only word of God. There was no door to door missionary work, no soap box preaching on the street corner, no “hell fire and brimstone” message involved at all. That these soldiers were being very careful to do things appropriately is to be lauded, not criticized as if plotting to take over the world in Iraq.

Suppression of religon

sonofdy on May 19, 2009 at 3:21 PM

How? They’re allowed to hold services on base.

Allahpundit on May 19, 2009 at 3:23 PM

“How?” AS IF you don’t know. Read the Gospels (again) if truly you are ignorant or have utterly forgotten all. “Let you light so shine that others may see it and glorify our Father in Heaven.” Being Christian involves sharing the story of God’s Love, Jesus, with those around us when an appropriate moment arises. That is why these Christian soldiers wanted to be sure of living by the letter of the martial code as well as by the spirit of God’s law. Religion aside, it’s a cultural sign of respect to share ideas with each other. I would hope that our soldiers have studied the Koran a bit as well, and suspect that indeed those who “appreciate” Iraq with respect have or will soon enough. It isn’t so much a matter of personal belief but a matter of mutual respect that Christians, Muslims, Jews, Hindi and Buddhists et.al. should know something spiritual that they share in common, differences aside. Listening to the videos above, I failed to hear any Christian encourage the others to say anything about personal beliefs to those friends, but simply to share the written word for others to read and take as they will what they want from the Gospels of Jesus.

maverick muse on May 19, 2009 at 3:55 PM

OK. I was never in the military so I don’t know the answer to this. Is General Order No. 1 in effect everywhere or just in Afghanistan?

Bobbertsan on May 19, 2009 at 3:55 PM

Handing out Bibles now is a bad PR move for Christians. The time will come, have patience.

petunia on May 19, 2009 at 3:55 PM

They BURNED the Bibles?

Smart move, now come weeks of riots, rampages, mayhem and murder by the southern evangelicals.

Bishop on May 19, 2009 at 3:23 PM

It’s not the military’s job to serve as a function of the Christian faith, but it will happen eventually anyway:

I think it’s probable that there are many Christians in the US and abroad awaiting the outcome of this war, so that they can utilize a stabilized Afghanistan to send missionaries into.

Of course, some Christians won’t wait that long, I’m sure. And no one says they have to.

bluelightbrigade on May 19, 2009 at 3:56 PM

Y’know, I don’t think they pointed a gun at the Afghanis and said to them, “Take this Bible or else.”

kingsjester on May 19, 2009 at 3:56 PM

sven and upstater,
I mean in terms of evangelization and consumption of ones life. unless you are an aestetic or monastic, it is far less resistant to outside force than Islam and Christianity.

And I wasnt meaning to lump in Hinduism, I would say it is one step up on the fanaticism scale.

Squid Shark on May 19, 2009 at 3:56 PM

Squid Shark on May 19, 2009 at 3:53 PM

don’t be Christians are not perfect and I value the Jews as our seedcorn….little bothers me as much as some evangelicals wanting to turf the OT…

sven10077 on May 19, 2009 at 3:56 PM

Bishop on May 19, 2009 at 3:23 PM

Sooy about the strike-thru. Didn’t mean that.

bluelightbrigade on May 19, 2009 at 3:56 PM

mankai on May 19, 2009 at 3:50 PM

The Great Commission [Matthew 28:19] set forth that the Apostles were to “teach all nations, …”

“ALL NATIONS” meant to the Gentiles, too. Not just to the Jews.

OhEssYouCowboys on May 19, 2009 at 3:56 PM

Why in the world is it ok to offend Christians in every possible way but we have to bend backwards to avoid even the slightest appearance of maybe possibly offending Muslims?
t.ferg on May 19, 2009 at 3:22 PM

Because christians don’t freak out when they are offended. Some whine a bit while most just take it. If christians threw a few kicking, screaming, car burning tantrums… who knows.

Durham68 on May 19, 2009 at 3:57 PM

If that’s the case, one could argue that Islam is a government cult or Catholicism is a cult of the Vatican.

Upstater85 on May 19, 2009 at 3:52 PM

We’re talking about WWII Japan. From the BBC:

Shinto was disestablished in 1946, when the Emperor lost his divine status as part of the Allied reformation of Japan…

One academic has written that the American Occupation Forces “undoubtedly wished to crush and destroy Shinto”, and certainly the orders issued by the occupying forces were very hostile to Shinto which they seem to have regarded as either a government-run cult, or a religion that had been converted into a military and nationalist ideology.

Islam and Catholicism are cross-border religions whose goals are something out of the Koran and Bible. Even the leaders of such nations are devoted to the religion (for better or worse). Shinto is WWII Japan saw the head of the government as divine and was interested in propping up that specific government.

And again, we’re fighting two different enemies at two different periods in history.

amerpundit on May 19, 2009 at 3:57 PM

Something about “nor prohibit the free exercise thereof” comes to mind. Does that ring any bells?

Akzed on May 19, 2009 at 3:57 PM

Read the Gospels (again)

OK…

These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: “Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel. As you go, preach this message: ‘The kingdom of heaven is near.’ Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy,drive out demons.

How’s that working out for ya?

mankai on May 19, 2009 at 3:57 PM

How would all you have who are so OUTRAGED! have felt this way were it Muslim US soldiers handing out Korans, and the military had stopped them. Somehow I don’t think you’d be quite so outraged.

brak on May 19, 2009 at 3:57 PM

bluelightbrigade on May 19, 2009 at 3:56 PM

And I know that it’s not certain we will stabilize Afghanistan…but I hope we do.

bluelightbrigade on May 19, 2009 at 3:57 PM

The US Government hands out Korans too…..at Gitmo.

the ACLU and Left could care less about that though

jp on May 19, 2009 at 3:58 PM

sven and upstater,
I mean in terms of evangelization and consumption of ones life. unless you are an aestetic or monastic, it is far less resistant to outside force than Islam and Christianity.

And I wasnt meaning to lump in Hinduism, I would say it is one step up on the fanaticism scale.

Squid Shark on May 19, 2009 at 3:56 PM

I don’t see how evangelizing has anything to do with an actual religion being religious. You could say then that if a Secularist is pushing people to become a Secular, he is in a way pushing a religion.

I see your point though. I think you meant fanaticism.

I wonder where Judaism ranks? I haven’t gotten any of their pamphlets.

Upstater85 on May 19, 2009 at 3:59 PM

So it’s not dangerous. My point exactly. Maybe they thought it was more important to make sure there’s no outrage among the local Muslims.

radiofreevillage on May 19, 2009 at 3:53 PM

Those who would’ve taken advantage of the incident won’t suddenly stop because superior officers rectified it. It doesn’t matter that the story about flushed Korans was wrong, it is still used as propaganda today.

****

On a separate note, trying to actively convert a devout people to your religion can actually push them further away from it. Not everything needs to be in-your-face marketing.

amerpundit on May 19, 2009 at 3:59 PM

Hey man, those videos are great! I don’t see a problem with handing out Bibles and saying, ‘hey read this’. I wouldn’t mind getting a Koran. They probably don’t have access to Bibles in the country. . . most of the people probably can’t read. But at least if you give them the Book, they can read it for themselves and make up their own minds whether or not they believe it.

Giving someone a book is not the same as preaching to them. Telling them what you believe is not encouraging them to believe it. They probably haven’t been told about the Gospel. I don’t see how we can take the soldiers’ freedom of speech like this.

ThackerAgency on May 19, 2009 at 3:59 PM

mankai on May 19, 2009 at 3:50 PM

The Great Commission [Matthew 28:19] set forth that the Apostles were to “teach all nations, …”

“ALL NATIONS” meant to the Gentiles, too. Not just to the Jews.

OhEssYouCowboys on May 19, 2009 at 3:56 PM

Not my point or question… I’m asking for an account of the 12 ever going to gentiles (save Peter once). If the GC was in effect, why would they be called “apostles to the circumcision” and why did they not go to Gentiles?

Don’t yell at me. If you think the GC was in effect in the Acts, you need to take it up with Peter, James and the 12.

mankai on May 19, 2009 at 4:00 PM

Something about “nor prohibit the free exercise thereof” comes to mind. Does that ring any bells?

Akzed on May 19, 2009 at 3:57 PM

Yes, and you can’t speak your mind about politics in uniform either. Just like you’re tried in a separate court system. Different rules for the military, apparently.

amerpundit on May 19, 2009 at 4:00 PM

brak on May 19, 2009 at 3:57 PM

I would still be annoyed, but less so, because that would not be the making of a Taliban recruitment tape.
Handing out bibles on the other hand plays right intothe AQ Narrative”

AQ announcer: “look at the evil crusader, here to give us….quarans?”

Squid Shark on May 19, 2009 at 4:01 PM

I suppose the military officials think it is better that the population think Americans are heathens and atheists than to show them that we believe in God too. We love God too.

Wouldn’t that make them like us more if they saw how devoted to God we were?

ThackerAgency on May 19, 2009 at 4:01 PM

Surely the outrage over this desecration of the Holy Scriptures will result in riots, death and destruction. Oh. Wait.

TheUnrepentantGeek on May 19, 2009 at 4:03 PM

amerpundit on May 19, 2009 at 4:00 PM

You are correct.

BTW, military justice is still tied into the civilian sytem, the ultimate court of appeals is still SCOTUS and you can not be tried again in federal court for a crime you were convicted of in a military court.

Squid Shark on May 19, 2009 at 4:03 PM

God forbid they were caught handing out this book…………

…………. then burned destroyed it.

Seven Percent Solution on May 19, 2009 at 4:04 PM

AQ announcer: “look at the evil crusader, here to give us….quarans?”

Squid Shark on May 19, 2009 at 4:01 PM

I agree with you. The military should absolutely not be doing this. My question was b/c a lot of commenters seem to be taking this as an affront to Christianity, and saying it’s oppressing soldiers as their cover argument.

brak on May 19, 2009 at 4:04 PM

We’re talking about WWII Japan. From the BBC:

Shinto was disestablished in 1946, when the Emperor lost his divine status as part of the Allied reformation of Japan…

One academic has written that the American Occupation Forces “undoubtedly wished to crush and destroy Shinto”, and certainly the orders issued by the occupying forces were very hostile to Shinto which they seem to have regarded as either a government-run cult, or a religion that had been converted into a military and nationalist ideology.

Islam and Catholicism are cross-border religions whose goals are something out of the Koran and Bible. Even the leaders of such nations are devoted to the religion (for better or worse). Shinto is WWII Japan saw the head of the government as divine and was interested in propping up that specific government.

And again, we’re fighting two different enemies at two different periods in history.

amerpundit on May 19, 2009 at 3:57 PM

Woa, woa, woa… there’s a difference between State Shinto and Shinto. Shinto is still being practiced. This is like saying the Church of England is no longer very relevant. That doesn’t mean that Christianity itself isn’t. Further, what about Judaism? Yeah, there are many Jews that don’t live in Israel, yet now they have a right to be citizens. Still Judaism is a “cross boarder” religion that has very special ties to a particular land mass.

Finally, these may be different times, but the definition of right and wrong do not change in time.

Upstater85 on May 19, 2009 at 4:04 PM

These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: “Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel. As you go, preach this message: ‘The kingdom of heaven is near.’ Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy,drive out demons.
How’s that working out for ya?

mankai on May 19, 2009 at 3:57 PM

Jesus Himself went to the Gentiles in Samaria -

John 4:7ff There cometh a woman of Samaria to draw water: …

John 4:25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things. [26] Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.

OhEssYouCowboys on May 19, 2009 at 4:04 PM

The Great Commission [Matthew 28:19] set forth that the Apostles were to “teach all nations, …”

True… but some context. The GC was not given to “all” Christians… He specifically called the 12 to Himself… and He gave a condition.

Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations…

In putting everything under him, God left nothing that is not subject to him. Yet at present we do not see everything subject to him. – Heb 2:8

mankai on May 19, 2009 at 4:04 PM

Not my point or question… I’m asking for an account of the 12 ever going to gentiles (save Peter once). If the GC was in effect, why would they be called “apostles to the circumcision” and why did they not go to Gentiles?

Don’t yell at me. If you think the GC was in effect in the Acts, you need to take it up with Peter, James and the 12.

mankai on May 19, 2009 at 4:00 PM

They all did. It’s not in Acts, b/c Like (it’s author) focused on Peter and Paul. But Christian history is clear that the original Apostles went far and wide…India, Ethiopia, Europe…and most were martyred there.

Foxe’s Book of Martyrs is not a bad place to start.

bluelightbrigade on May 19, 2009 at 4:04 PM

Islam, the evil catholic church(Spanish Inquisition), Napoloen, Soviet Atheism/Communism, Shinto, Buddahism, etc…..they are all the Second Oldest Religion.

I’ll hand it over to the opening pages of “God and Gold” by the brilliant Mead, linking Oliver Cromwell to Ronald Reagan:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/style/longterm/books/chap1/godandgold.htm

With God on Our Side

On September 17, 1656, Oliver Cromwell, the Lord Protector, addressed the English Parliament to lay out his foreign policy, and he began by asking the most basic political questions: Who are our enemies, and why do they hate us?

There was, he then asserted, an axis of evil abroad in the world. England’s enemies, he said, “are all the wicked men of the world, whether abroad or at home …”

And, in the language of the seventeenth century, he said that they hate us because they hate God and all that is good. They hate us “from that very enmity that is in them against whatsoever should serve the glory of God and the interest of his people; which they see to be more eminently, yea most eminently patronized and professed in this nation-we will speak it not with vanity-above all the nations in the world.”

Cromwell went on to spell out for the Roundheads, as the partisans of Parliament had been known in the English Civil War, that the axis of evil had a leader: a great power which had put itself in the service of evil.

“Truly,” said Cromwell, “your great enemy is the Spaniard … through that enmity that is in him against all that is of God that is in you.” That enmity came from the origin of the Catholic religion in the primordial revolt against God, embodied by the serpent in the Garden of Eden. “I will put an enmity between thy seed and her seed,” Cromwell said, citing God’s curse on the serpent and the enmity He would fix between the Children of Darkness and the Children of Light.

Cromwell’s approach to world politics would resonate more than three hundred years later and three thousand miles away, when on March 8, 1983, U.S. president Ronald Reagan addressed the annual convention of the National Association of Evangelicals in Orlando, Florida. The Soviet Union, he said, is “the focus of evil in the modern world.” And America was engaged in a test of faith against an adversary that had set itself against God. Citing Whittaker Chambers, the Communist-turned-informer, Reagan asserted that Marxism-Leninism is “the second oldest religious faith,” first proclaimed by the serpent in the Garden of Eden when he tempted Adam and Eve to disobey God. And like Cromwell, Reagan saw history as a struggle between spiritual forces. “I’ve always maintained,” the president told the preachers, “that the struggle now going on for the world will never be decided by bombs or rockets, by armies or military might.”
Since the enmity between the Free World and the Empire of Evil was existential-the battle between the Children of Light and the Children of Darkness-it was also eternal, just like Cromwell’s call for unrelenting war with Spain. One cannot make a covenant with the Father of Lies.

Catholic teaching, Cromwell warned Parliament, held that the pope has the power to forgive all sins. If Catholic princes made a peace treaty with England, the pope could absolve them from the sin of breaking their oaths whenever they pleased. As Cromwell summarized the matter, “The plain truth of it is, make any peace with any State that is Popish and subjected to the determination of Rome and the Pope himself, you are bound and they are loose … That Peace is but to be kept for so long as the Pope saith Amen to it.”

Reagan felt just the same way about Communists: they had a philosophical stance that expressly made it impossible to assume their good faith. The United States could not deal openly and honestly with the Communists, Reagan said, because “the Soviet leaders have openly and publicly declared that the only morality they recognize is that which will further their cause.” Their materialistic philosophy placed no absolute value on right action or truth and could absolve them of any crime because the end justified the means.

The similarities between the Cromwellian and the Reaganite arguments run deeper. Both leaders called their countrymen to a consensus foreign policy that would unify the nation. The arch-Republican Reagan offended some of his Democratic listeners by claiming to stand in the tradition of Democrat Harry Truman. Bipartisanship was an even more difficult concept for Cromwell’s audience than for modern Americans. The “bipartisan foreign policy” of the Cold War was a staple of American political rhetoric in the last generation. In Cromwell’s England, the concept of legitimate political parties was still struggling to be born; dissent and disloyalty were still seen as one and the same. Cromwell, who had recently led the parliamentary forces to triumph in a civil war that was concluded by the execution of the king, nevertheless wanted to make the point that all true Englishmen, royalist and republican, agreed on the evils of the Catholic threat. Queen Elizabeth, Cromwell pointed out, had supported the anti-Spanish policy, and in a phrase that must have shaken some of the rounder heads in the room, he praised the “famous memory” of the queen and-just as Reagan did with Truman-asserted a claim to stand in her tradition.

Evil empires throughout history have always trampled on human rights. American presidents during the Cold War routinely denounced Soviet mistreatment of dissidents and religious believers. Here again they were merely following in the footsteps of the Lord Protector. Cromwell’s speech of 1656 chronicled Spanish atrocities: he referred to a messenger of the Long Parliament whom the Spanish cruelly murdered and noted that when the English ambassadors “asked satisfaction for the blood of your poor people unjustly shed in the West Indies, and for the wrongs done elsewhere, when they ask liberty of conscience for your people who traded thither,-satisfaction in none of these things would be given, but was denied.”

All we ask, Cromwell told Parliament, is liberty. Only that.

Describing the recent, failed negotiations with Philip IV, king of Spain, Cromwell wanted to show how reasonable, how moderate, the English demands had been. “We desired such a liberty as they [visiting English merchants in Spanish territory] might keep Bibles in their pockets, to exercise their liberty of religion to themselves and not be under restraint. But there is not liberty of conscience to be had …”

Don Felipe, tear down that wall!

jp on May 19, 2009 at 4:05 PM

Moronic hypersimplification from the comments at Tapper’s article:

As long as religion exists the wars will continue. This is what the faithful crave.

Posted by: Keith | May 19, 2009 3:55:03 PM

O rly? I know that’s what I crave. It’s just not a proper morning unless the Militant Methodist Martyr’s Brigades (or M3B as we are known on the street, yo) try to knock over a sovereign nation.

TheUnrepentantGeek on May 19, 2009 at 4:05 PM

ThackerAgency on May 19, 2009 at 3:59 PM

You are on governement time when you are over there. I cant tell my CO to go screw himself either.

Squid Shark on May 19, 2009 at 4:05 PM

God forbid they were caught handing out this book…………

…………. then burned destroyed it.

Seven Percent Solution on May 19, 2009 at 4:04 PM

ily.

bluelightbrigade on May 19, 2009 at 4:05 PM

How’s that working out for ya?

mankai on May 19, 2009 at 3:57 PM

Early on their mission was to Israel only, but what do you make of Matthew 28:18-20? Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

Akzed on May 19, 2009 at 4:06 PM

jp on May 19, 2009 at 4:05 PM

Yeah. Cromwell. He was a winner.

Squid Shark on May 19, 2009 at 4:07 PM

Militant Methodist Martyr’s Brigades (or M3B as we are known on the street, yo) try to knock over a sovereign nation.

TheUnrepentantGeek on May 19, 2009 at 4:05 PM

That was hilarious.

M3B…lol

bluelightbrigade on May 19, 2009 at 4:07 PM

These Christians are dangrous, I’m telling you!

simon on May 19, 2009 at 4:07 PM

OhEssYouCowboys on May 19, 2009 at 4:04 PM

He did allow Gentiles to hear him. He said of the Roman Centurion that he had greater faith than all in Israel… but He was not sent to them as King (“Son of David”), but He was still their God.

Leaving that place, Jesus withdrew to the region of Tyre and Sidon. A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, “Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is suffering terribly from demon-possession.”

Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, “Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us.”

He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”

The woman came and knelt before him. “Lord, help me!” she said.

He replied, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to their dogs.”

“Yes, Lord,” she said, “but even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters’ table.”

Then Jesus answered, “Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted.” And her daughter was healed from that very hour.

Compare that with the two Jews who call on Him as “Son of David”… He IMMEDIATELY responds to them and to their request.

mankai on May 19, 2009 at 4:08 PM

I don’t have a problem with removing the Bibles if the soldiers were violating host country rules/laws

katiejane on May 19, 2009 at 4:08 PM

How’s that working out for ya?

mankai on May 19, 2009 at 3:57 PM

Smiling

Dr Evil on May 19, 2009 at 4:08 PM

Upstater85 on May 19, 2009 at 3:51 PM

Shinto centers on homage/honor to/from dead ancestors. Tribal.

Buddhism transcends reality, being within oneself without consciousness, certainly without familial relations, separation perfected into the oneness of all things where all things amalgamate, no more distinctions.

“Low grade” would be a snarky reference as to the basic isolation wherein these ideals are exercised. Whereas, being charged to convert the world requires more octane.

maverick muse on May 19, 2009 at 4:09 PM

The last thing American soldiers should be doing in Iraq is handing out Bibles.

Dave Rywall on May 19, 2009 at 3:20 PM

The bible is the ONLY way man can have peace with God.

Unbelievers need to hear the gospel, repent of their sins and turn to Christ.

shick on May 19, 2009 at 4:09 PM

Not my point or question… I’m asking for an account of the 12 ever going to gentiles (save Peter once). If the GC was in effect, why would they be called “apostles to the circumcision” and why did they not go to Gentiles?

Don’t yell at me. If you think the GC was in effect in the Acts, you need to take it up with Peter, James and the 12.

mankai on May 19, 2009 at 4:00 PM

Why don’t you show me HOW the Great Commission of Jesus Christ … was LIMITED to the Jews?

Your quote re: not going to the Samaritans, was PRIOR to the Great Commission and CLEARLY did NOT limit same. The Great Commission was … once again … to ALL NATIONS … including the Gentiles.

Jesus wanted the Word to be preached to the Jews first, because they were the people of the Covenant. That fact had nothing to do with the subsequent Great Commission to ALL NATIONS.

OhEssYouCowboys on May 19, 2009 at 4:09 PM

Yeah. Cromwell. He was a winner.

Squid Shark on May 19, 2009 at 4:07 PM

that he was, the United States has alot to be greatful to him for….’warts and all’ as they say.

jp on May 19, 2009 at 4:09 PM

How’s that working out for ya?
mankai on May 19, 2009 at 3:57 PM

Romans 1:8, First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is being reported all over the world.

Colossians 1:6, All over the world this gospel is bearing fruit and growing, just as it has been doing among you since the day you heard it and understood God’s grace in all its truth.

Akzed on May 19, 2009 at 4:09 PM

Woa, woa, woa… there’s a difference between State Shinto and Shinto. Shinto is still being practiced.

Upstater85 on May 19, 2009 at 4:04 PM

Understood. I’m addressing the MacArthur quote regarding dealing with Japan during WWII.

amerpundit on May 19, 2009 at 4:09 PM

The point is the missionaries have their jobs and the Soldiers have theirs. Professional Soldiers do not act as missionaries just as they don’t publicly talk bad about the president- regardless of their personal opinion.

Trooper on May 19, 2009 at 4:10 PM

Early on their mission was to Israel only, but what do you make of Matthew 28:18-20? Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

Akzed on May 19, 2009 at 4:06 PM

Well, “early” is relative. Matthew 10 is after Matthew 5, yet most Christians hold the “Sermon on the Mount” to be universal (although I do not).

I answered this previously, but to sum… He was only talking to the 11… and the time of everything being subject to Him had not yet come (Heb 2:8). This is why the 12 NEVER (save Peter one time) go to Gentiles. Were they being disobedient? Nope. Paul agrees with their calling.

mankai on May 19, 2009 at 4:10 PM

Every moment you wear the uniform you represent the United States of America, you are an agent of the duly elected government of that nation. When overseas it is even more so.

The United States does not endorse one faith over another.

Squid Shark on May 19, 2009 at 4:10 PM

I don’t think this thread is working out the way Allah intended it to :) That’s one for our side.

Dr Evil on May 19, 2009 at 4:11 PM

blatantblue on May 19, 2009 at 3:43 PM

So it will be a mistake because we didnt spread Jesus?

Squid Shark on May 19, 2009 at 3:49 PM

No — you are good with straw men, I see..

There are Christians in these nations.

Why should we destroy Bibles that are in their language?

I see no reason for it.

Just more political correctness.

More BS. Like the fact that our men are bleeding — dying — losing limbs — and suffering mental scarring SO AFGANIS CAN LIVE UNDER SHARI’A!!

I REFUSE TO TOLERATE IT!

Bring them out of that SH*THOLE! Now!!!

They are WASTING their lives on a country that doesn’t want modernity or anything other than their ridiculous crap religion of Islam.

I for one am tired of it.

blatantblue on May 19, 2009 at 4:11 PM

Soldiers are not allowed to proselytize while in uniform or while on duty. If soldiers want to be missionaries in their free time in Afghanistan, I say let them, just as long as they take off their uniforms and body armor, and leave their weapons and armored vehicles inside the wire.

BohicaTwentyTwo on May 19, 2009 at 4:12 PM

mankai on May 19, 2009 at 4:08 PM

Honsetly, dude. You’re over-reaching here. If Jesus was a racist, he would have kept walking.

Its more likely he just wanted to see how desperate she was, by seeing if she would break the social mores of the day.

Jesus made the lepers work for it, too…and he’s never been called a “leperphobe”

bluelightbrigade on May 19, 2009 at 4:13 PM

Understood. I’m addressing the MacArthur quote regarding dealing with Japan during WWII.

amerpundit on May 19, 2009 at 4:09 PM

You seemed to be suggesting that somehow Islam is different than Shintoism.

I don’t see how a leader couldn’t use Islam to seize and maintain power.

Upstater85 on May 19, 2009 at 4:13 PM

Hell — we SHOULD be pushing Christianity, or Judaism, or ANYTHING OTHER than Islam in these countries.

At the minimum we should be DEFENDING CHRISTIANS who are being PUSHED OUT of the countries we are occupying! They are being systematically thrown out — chased out!

That crap passed down from the Molester Warlord Muhammad (Peas be upon him) has caused nothing but suffering in that area of the world, and always will if it remains.

blatantblue on May 19, 2009 at 4:13 PM

OhEssYouCowboys on May 19, 2009 at 4:09 PM

My quote from Matthew 10 was in response to someone instructing me to “read the gospels again”… my point is that the gospels (particularly Matthew) were not written TO me (FOR me, yes, but not TO me).

The GC was not limited to Jews. I never argued that it is. My argument is (a) it was given only to the 11 (12) when (b) all things are under His feet.

Heb 2 notes that all things were not under his feet in the Acts age, and the 12 therefore were not yet commissioned under Matthew 28. My evidence is their own actions and Paul’s affirmation of their calling ONLY to Jews.

mankai on May 19, 2009 at 4:14 PM

Bring them out of that SH*THOLE! Now!!!

They are WASTING their lives on a country that doesn’t want modernity or anything other than their ridiculous crap religion of Islam.

I for one am tired of it.

blatantblue on May 19, 2009 at 4:11 PM

Yes, I say stop using men to fight these savages… I can think of things with more morbid results.

Upstater85 on May 19, 2009 at 4:14 PM

The United States does not endorse one faith over another.

Squid Shark on May 19, 2009 at 4:10 PM

Burning the Koran will get you prosecuted under the UCMJ or at a minimum made braindead by “sensitivity” training…..

burning Bibles will get you a pat on the head evidently.

sven10077 on May 19, 2009 at 4:14 PM

Did we not force the emperor of Japan to denounce his divinity?

I could have sworn we did — I may be wrong tho.

blatantblue on May 19, 2009 at 4:14 PM

How’s that working out for ya?

mankai on May 19, 2009 at 3:57 PM

These soldiers didn’t select their destination.

How’s that working out for ya?

BTW, I wouldn’t be handing out scripture to anyone, myself. But if these Christians feel compelled to share what they have with friends they are making, that’s their business so long as they follow protocol which they are studying to do appropriately.

maverick muse on May 19, 2009 at 4:15 PM

blatantblue on May 19, 2009 at 4:11 PM

It is not a straw man, and I never said they should destroy the bibles.

I hope they dont have to live under the ridiculous crap religion of Christianity either. There, did that feel good?

Squid Shark on May 19, 2009 at 4:15 PM

Just for the record…

I’m pretty sure mankai isn’t interested in honest discussion or attempts at conversion.

We should go back to discussing the Mil for destroying Bibles.

bluelightbrigade on May 19, 2009 at 4:16 PM

I could have sworn we did — I may be wrong tho.

blatantblue on May 19, 2009 at 4:14 PM

It was part of Japan’s unconditional surrender.

maverick muse on May 19, 2009 at 4:16 PM

mankai on May 19, 2009 at 4:08 PM

Honsetly, dude. You’re over-reaching here. If Jesus was a racist, he would have kept walking.

Its more likely he just wanted to see how desperate she was, by seeing if she would break the social mores of the day.

Jesus made the lepers work for it, too…and he’s never been called a “leperphobe”

bluelightbrigade on May 19, 2009 at 4:13 PM

I’m not calling the Lord nor the 12 “racists.” He was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel (His words) as “Son of David” (earthly king). He interacted with Gentiles as their God.

Peter and the 12 went “only to Jews” because that was their commission before Christ assumes His kingdom (the time when all things will be under His feet). At THAT time, the 12 will be commissioned to all nations.

mankai on May 19, 2009 at 4:16 PM

as I always say… “don’t bring your god to government or war… bring what your god taught you.”

Kaptain Amerika on May 19, 2009 at 4:17 PM

bluelightbrigade on May 19, 2009 at 4:16 PM

:)

mankai on May 19, 2009 at 4:17 PM

I hope they dont have to live under the ridiculous crap religion of Christianity either. There, did that feel good?

Squid Shark on May 19, 2009 at 4:15 PM

Christianity is a golden goblet compared to that stone cup of Islam.

blatantblue on May 19, 2009 at 4:18 PM

mankai on May 19, 2009 at 4:10 PM

In addition, Peter did not limit his witness to Cornelius.

Galatians 2:11-14 -

[11] But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed, [12] For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision. … [14] But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of the Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?

OhEssYouCowboys on May 19, 2009 at 4:18 PM

He was only talking to the 11… and the time of everything being subject to Him had not yet come (Heb 2:8).

“All authority in heaven and earth,” Mt. 28. He. 2:8 represents something fulfilled that was unfulfilled in Mt. 28? He. 2:8 is quoting Ps 8. Huh?

This is why the 12 NEVER (save Peter one time) go to Gentiles. Were they being disobedient? Nope. Paul agrees with their calling. mankai on May 19, 2009 at 4:10 PM

“Early on” their only message was, acc to Mt 10, “Repent.” It got a little more involved in Mt 28:18-20 and Acts 2 where the nations heard their own language in Jerusalem. Plus, the apostles ended up in Alexandria, Rome, Ephesus, PAtmos, etc. What are you arguing for, anti-evangelism? Not much of a future there (let alone biblical justification).

Akzed on May 19, 2009 at 4:18 PM

Dropping them in the toilet sparks worldwide outrage and killings. I don’t want to see what happens when they’re burned.

I do.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-3X5hIFXYU

The Rock on May 19, 2009 at 4:19 PM

maverick muse on May 19, 2009 at 4:15 PM

I’m all for evangelizing (I’ve already stated that)… I was just saving the Apostles from false accusations of ignorance or racism.

I’m still waiting for evidence that they went to anybody but to the Jews (save Peter once).

mankai on May 19, 2009 at 4:20 PM

The bible is the ONLY way man can have peace with God.

Unbelievers need to hear the gospel, repent of their sins and turn to Christ.

shick on May 19, 2009 at 4:09 PM

Go to hell.

Apologetic California on May 19, 2009 at 4:21 PM

blatantblue on May 19, 2009 at 4:13 PM

Hell the father of my people had 4 wives. One of his sons slept with one of his wives. two of them slaughtered an entire city. 10 of them sold one of them into slavery.

And his grandfather is responsible for this whole mess, if he would have just not slept with that handmaiden.

Squid Shark on May 19, 2009 at 4:21 PM

Has anyone watched this movie and the beginning when they are in Vietnam? Dead Presidents.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Presidents

[Cleon blasts a Viet Cong in the head, killing him]
Cleon: Now you’re good, now Jesus loves you.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0112819/quotes

Yes there are worse ways to convert people…..than handing out bibles.

Dr Evil on May 19, 2009 at 4:21 PM

blatantblue on May 19, 2009 at 4:18 PM

Once again, your opinion, certainly not mine.

Squid Shark on May 19, 2009 at 4:22 PM

Once again, your opinion, certainly not mine.

Squid Shark on May 19, 2009 at 4:22 PM

Then explain to me why Islam is just as good as any other religion.

blatantblue on May 19, 2009 at 4:23 PM

mankai

How? They’re allowed to hold services on base.

Allahpundit on May 19, 2009 at 3:23 PM

“How?” AS IF you don’t know. Read the Gospels (again) if truly you are ignorant or have utterly forgotten all. “

“How” was asked by Allahpundit @ 3:23, presuming that attending a meeting suffices “being” Christian. I thought his response was flippant to your comment that the soldiers’ religious expression is being stifled, mankai.

My quote from Matthew 10 was in response to someone instructing me to “read the gospels again”… my point is that the gospels (particularly Matthew) were not written TO me (FOR me, yes, but not TO me).

mankai on May 19, 2009 at 4:14 PM

/clear air

maverick muse on May 19, 2009 at 4:23 PM

where the nations heard their own language in
Jerusalem.

They were all Jews or proselyte Jews. Peter openly calls them “ye men of Israel.”

Plus, the apostles ended up in Alexandria, Rome, Ephesus, PAtmos, etc. What are you arguing for, anti-evangelism? Not much of a future there (let alone biblical justification).

Akzed on May 19, 2009 at 4:18 PM

In Acts 1:8 (do you want to claim that for ALL Christians too?), they were told to wait in Jerusalem and then go out from there… but going out from there… they STILL went to Jews only. After Acts 10, they STILL went to Jews only.

mankai on May 19, 2009 at 4:23 PM

Squid Shark on May 19, 2009 at 4:22 PM

Way OT, but did you see the “Mega Shark vs Giant Octopus” thread a few days back? If so, what’s your take?

DarkCurrent on May 19, 2009 at 4:25 PM

What are you arguing for, anti-evangelism

Nope. I’m not one of the 12 and I don’t live in the Acts age.

:)

I’m all for evangelism.

mankai on May 19, 2009 at 4:26 PM

mankai on May 19, 2009 at 4:23 PM

Look up “context” in a local dictionary.

The apostles ended up in Ephesus, Alexandria, Patmos, Rome, and elsewhere. What is your point with this? This is a new twist I have yet to hear tell of. Certainly novel.

Akzed on May 19, 2009 at 4:26 PM

In Romans 1 Paul says the Romans’ faith was known in all the world, same in Col. 1. Jesus said all power in ehaven and on earth was given to Him, therefore the apostles should go into all the world and teach and baptize.

What’s your point?

Akzed on May 19, 2009 at 4:28 PM

I hope they dont have to live under the ridiculous crap religion of Christianity either. There, did that feel good?

But that’s exactly the point.

What may be ‘ridiculous’ to you, is just that – ridiculous. Compare ‘ridiculous’ to that of the current flavor.

It’s not a ideology that threatens death if abandoned, it’s not a system of political, military, judicial and social laws like Sharia, and it’s not a human rights trap that enslaves the weak.

Even those who aren’t religious should be embracing this with vibrancy. Don’t want to follow it? Fine. Move on. Lot’s of alternatives.

Christianity is the best thing that could ever come to the Afghanistan, nay, the entire Middle East.

You-Eh-Vee on May 19, 2009 at 4:28 PM

Look up “context” in a local dictionary.

The apostles ended up in Ephesus, Alexandria, Patmos, Rome, and elsewhere. What is your point with this? This is a new twist I have yet to hear tell of. Certainly novel.

Akzed on May 19, 2009 at 4:26 PM

I’m the one looking at the context. He told the 11, he gave the condition. You want to take it for all Christians and ignore the condition… and the actual actions of the 12.

Doesn’t matter where they ended up, the 12 preached to “Jews only” because they were commissioned as “Apotsles to the Circumcision” (agreed to by Paul).

So if God gave them the same gift as he gave us, who believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to think that I could oppose God?”

When they heard this, they had no further objections and praised God, saying, “So then, God has granted even the Gentiles repentance unto life.”

Now those who had been scattered by the persecution in connection with Stephen traveled as far as Phoenicia, Cyprus and Antioch, telling the message only to Jews.

mankai on May 19, 2009 at 4:30 PM

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