Video: Obama and Netanyahu waste each other’s time; Update: Six more months for Iran
posted at 4:15 pm on May 18, 2009 by Allahpundit
“The moment of truth is at hand,” declares a Haaretz op-ed contributor, before declaring The One the second coming of Jimmy Carter. In reality, there’s no truth to this moment. Obama agrees that Iran’s a very grave threat which we’ll have to address one of these days (but not now) and Bibi agrees that a Palestinian state is very important and he’ll get right on it once the Palestinians acknowledge Israel is a Jewish state (which they’ll never do). It’s a sort of good cop/bad cop routine, starring Obama as the voice of reason who’s trying to get Iran to play ball before his hot-tempered partner loses patience and roughs them up.
What this meeting was really about, as Time explains, is deciding which one of those two issues to prioritize over the other. Ever mindful of his legacy, The One wants to settle the Palestinian question before confronting Iran — even though it’s the latter, not the former, where there’s no time to spare, and even though successful resolution of the latter would greatly increase the odds for a successful resolution of the former rather than vice versa. Consider: If Iran is defanged and steps back from its initiative to seed the region with proxies, Hamas loses its patron and peace becomes more likely. If, on the other hand, the Palestinians are somehow recognized as a state before Iran is dealt with — then what? Obama seems to think this will give Arabs across the region political cover to rally behind their new friend Israel, leading Iran to back down and give up its nuke program, but (a) if it’s true, as the left pretends, that Iran accelerated its nuke program because it felt threatened by hostile powers nearby (Israel and U.S. troops in Iraq), then a united Sunni/Israel front should only exacerbate the problem and (b) even Obama can’t be so naive as to think a Palestinian state will mean a sea change in Arab attitudes overnight, which is what it would take for this strategy to affect Iran before they build a bomb. Forty percent of Israeli Arabs are Holocaust deniers and barely half think the country they live in deserves to exist; with opinion among non-Israeli Arabs doubtless even grimmer than that, the best Israel could hope for from Arab leaders after a Palestinian state is formed is quiet neutrality between it and Tehran. Which is to say, Palestinian peace isn’t in fact a necessary prerequisite to dealing with Iran — but then, universal health care isn’t a necessary prerequisite to dealing with monstrous deficits either, no matter what Obama says. Funny how every time there’s a crisis The One has to deal with, the only “solution” involves some piece of his agenda that he would have been pushing anyway.
Meanwhile, although it’s not being widely reported today, the odds of a productive “dialogue” with Iran just got a lot smaller.
Obama and Netanyahu will likely be working with the same president after Iran’s June 12 elections, though, after Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei all but endorsed President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad for another term Monday, saying Iranians should not vote in someone who “thinks about endearing himself to some Western power.” A prominent opposition candidate has challenged Ahmadinejad on Holocaust denial and other moves that intentionally antagonize the West…
As the leaders met Monday, Iran’s parliament speaker, Ali Larijani, gave a speech stating “that under no circumstances will the Islamic Republic of Iran recognize the Zionist regime and believes that any country doing so would be defamed among nations,” according to a summary from the official Islamic Republic News Agency.
According to a new poll of Israelis, just 31 percent think Obama is pro-Israel. Bush’s numbers during his presidency: 88 percent. Click the image to watch.
Update: No rush.
Speaking to reporters after meeting with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, Obama offered assurances that he did not intend for talks with Iran to become “an excuse for inaction,” a major concern of Israeli officials worried that Tehran will string out talks while making progress toward acquiring a nuclear weapon.
But he also made clear that he was prepared to wait months for Iran to respond to the U.S. offer of better ties in return for halting its nuclear activities. He emphasized that the year-end timetable would be for assessing whether the diplomatic effort was “moving in the right direction,” not a deadline for reaching a final agreement with Iran on halting its nuclear activities.
“By the end of the year I think we should have some sense as to whether or not the talks are having some benefit,” Obama said.
Politico made another nice catch: Whereas Netanyahu wants any deal with Iran to ensure they’re not capable of building a bomb, Obama seems ready to settle for a deal so long as they don’t have a bomb built yet. Which sets us up nicely for a Saddam/WMD redux a few years down the road.
Blowback
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But I thought pork wasn’t kosher.
Steve Z on May 18, 2009 at 4:54 PM
Yes. That is embarrassing to no end. I’ve let all my friends (ex-friends, mostly now), who voted for the idiot messiah, know that they were scumbags who will be ultimately responsible for the destruction of Israel.
progressoverpeace on May 18, 2009 at 4:54 PM
I’ll take the sons of Zion as allies over the sons of NewSpeak any frakkin day of the week.
Limerick on May 18, 2009 at 4:55 PM
Jordan was part of Israel in the original plan. The Arabs have been whittling away at Israel since then, hoping to get rid of it altogether.
Daggett on May 18, 2009 at 4:55 PM
This is true. But lumping Arabs and Jews together in “Semite” is a semantics game at this point…?
To the parties involved, their common Abrahamic lineage is (largely) irrelevant. It’s the Ishmael/Isaac lineages that count.
[Okay...I gotta go...]
bluelightbrigade on May 18, 2009 at 4:55 PM
WTF? Just about any country in the freaking world has official ethnic, cultural or religious affiliation.
Go get some help. You need it.
Aristotle on May 18, 2009 at 4:55 PM
1. Iran
2. Saudi Arabia
3. Syria
4. Jordan
5. Yemen
6. UAE
7. Kuwait
I supposed you could try to go into one of those countries and declare that you’re a homosexual atheist who plans on converting all of iran to Judaism and Christianity. We’ll see how well that plays out.
mjk on May 18, 2009 at 4:56 PM
Ah. Yeah, Iran’s isn’t about to recognize Israel as any state — Jewish or otherwise. Even the “reformer” Khatami called Israel an “illegal state” and “parasite”. Ahmadinejad calls the simple recognition of Israel — Jewish state or otherwise — as “acknowledging a surrender and defeat of the Islamic world.”
Or, to quote in length:
amerpundit on May 18, 2009 at 4:56 PM
zeebeach on May 18, 2009 at 4:56 PM
Bush was the same way with tax cuts. Though I supported the tax cuts most of the time (I remember opposing one dealing with oil), I kept thinking people are going to think Bush’s tax cut ideas are no better than snake oil.
My bottom line is all politicians should provide rational arguments for their agenda or else people will rightly think they are being lied to.
thuja on May 18, 2009 at 4:56 PM
Son of Abraham
thomasaur on May 18, 2009 at 4:57 PM
The right of return doesn’t change depending on whether or not Israel is a Jewish state. The right of return is independant of that. The fact that Israel is a Jewish state only serves as an excuse to negate that right.
As for the Jewish majority part, would we, in the US, endorse an immigration plan meant to preserve the white anglo saxon majority in this country? I think we, as a country, would call that racism.
mycowardice on May 18, 2009 at 4:57 PM
LOL!!!
Yeah, radiofreevillage — take the advice, please. Spread some diversity. It’s the liberal thing to do.
Daggett on May 18, 2009 at 4:57 PM
Religious, yes. Not ethnic or cultural.
radiofreevillage on May 18, 2009 at 4:58 PM
The Brits then went ahead and gave it to the Saudis.
I truly wonder why the “Palestinians”, who are 85% of the population in Jordan, don’t cry over occupation by Hashemite Saudi royals.
Aristotle on May 18, 2009 at 4:58 PM
The arabs are not descended from Ishmael. That’s one of the dumbest things I’ve ever heard and I find it hard to believe that anyone actually parrots that line. Mohammed just tried to insert the arabs into the biblical line to give his primitives some instant respectability. If you think about the whole story for just a few seconds, you’ll see how unbelievably stupid it is. Arabs can’t even get the history of the past 50 years correct, adn that’s with the advantage of writing and videotape , yet Mohammed had some inkling of his lineage from thousands of years before. It’s too funny to even begin to take seriously.
progressoverpeace on May 18, 2009 at 4:59 PM
BTW,after watching the video,a scond time,I think Bi Bi
just gamed Hopey!
Bejamin Netanyahu,just played into Obama on the fact that
everyone wants peace,an excellent response to Liberal ears!
Now,the ball is in the Jihady court,will the Jihadys want
peace or war!!
canopfor on May 18, 2009 at 4:59 PM
Fine. Display a Jewish gene for all of us. Please, we need to see the difference for you to make your point.
Limerick on May 18, 2009 at 4:59 PM
What’s the insinuation here?
That the Israelis cause all the wars in the world?
Or that the Israelis somehow cause people to go to war for them?
That’s a little Protocols for me.
Last I checked, the Israelis fight their own wars. And they do a damn good job at that.
mjk on May 18, 2009 at 5:00 PM
Exactly. The right of return is the real problem. Let me remind you though that contrary to what amerpundit said, Egypt and Jordan did sign the treaty in the absence of the requirement to formally recognize Israel as a Jewish state.
Why can’t we have the same demands for others?
radiofreevillage on May 18, 2009 at 5:00 PM
Not at all. I thought of them as “Wow, I can save enough of my own money now to buy a house. Oh, and I can dump some of that underperforming stock without taking a bath.”
myrenovations on May 18, 2009 at 5:01 PM
Because this isn’t about Israel as being a Palestinian homeland. It’s about the fact that the very existence of Israel refutes the veracity of the Quran, which upsets the whole foundation of Islam.
Islam basically has these choices: 1. Ignore the contradiction; 2. Deny the contradiction [that's the current choice - deny Israel exists]; 3. Destroy Israel, thus making the Quran correct; 4. Admit the Quran is wrong.
Daggett on May 18, 2009 at 5:01 PM
So you are backstepping now? Coward.
Though that alone should make your point worthless, since Judaism is a religion, but this is still BS – ethnicity is language and other aspects of culture, aspects which are official in vast majority of countries.
Aristotle on May 18, 2009 at 5:03 PM
Coward perhaps, but mainly just foolish and uneducated.
thomasaur on May 18, 2009 at 5:04 PM
Coward?
Yep. Good call.
It can’t refute U.N. resolution 181 of 1947. It can’t point to the ethnic instead of religious component of the Jewish State. It can’t do anything but claim that Jooooooooooossssssssss are wrong.
Have troll, will travel.
Limerick on May 18, 2009 at 5:05 PM
You may have just stumbled onto the reason libtards have such reverence for Islamists (radical or not).
They both just make shit up as they go, proclaiming it to be both true and a matter of historical record.
Reid = The war is lost
Pelosi = CIA lied to Congress
Imadinnerjacket = There are no homosexuals in Iran
Mohammed = (see Koran)
I’m seeing a pattern emerge.
Hmmmmm……more study is needed…….
BobMbx on May 18, 2009 at 5:05 PM
Why are so many people offering “serious” answers to this inane question?
Israel doesn’t declare itself to be home JUST for people of particular ethnicity or religious affiliation anyway. This is one of those bargain-rack strawmen the trolls seem to be buying at monster liquidation sales today.
Israel is avowedly a Jewish state, and a home for Jews, but is perfectly willing to accept Muslim Arab residents as fellow Israelis.
The superficial “argument” that Israel doesn’t accept Arab (or other Muslim or Christian) immigrants, for Israeli citizenship, falls apart the split second we acknowledge the reality that ALL OTHER NATIONS limit and control their immigration and citizenship too — and some Muslim nations exclude immigrants from permanent residence or citizenship based on religion. What people do who really want to live there is convert, and get married to a national (the latter being, often, the reason they want to live there so badly). Same way non-Jews get citizenship in Israel. Horrors.
I also note that although Christians are not allowed to proselytize in Israel, they can worship openly in the many Christian churches tolerated there. This is not the case in Saudi Arabia. Christian services are officially illegal there. Christians who want to worship do so in “secret” (the Saudis pragmatically turn a blind eye to services conducted inside the homes of Westerners — usually in walled compounds — or inside embassies). No such kabuki is necessary in Israel, where Christian worship is legal — and so is Muslim worship.
J.E. Dyer on May 18, 2009 at 5:06 PM
bambi wants israel to fail. he said he would support his muslim brothers when things get tough. bambi is doing all of this on purpose.
the problem he will have is when any of these bad boys attack our people & the American people view it because bambi was weak. and yes, bambi will get blamed.
kelley in virginia on May 18, 2009 at 5:09 PM
Jews had an uninterrupted presence in the Holy land for the last 2000 years; so called “palestinians” are just a bunch of wayward arabs who got lost on their way to somewhere from Arabia a few hundred years ago. Now, for the more important matter – how hard was Netanyahu laughing after the great impostor delivered his brilliant remarks?
runner on May 18, 2009 at 5:11 PM
I thought she was confused. I was just trying to be helpful.
myrenovations on May 18, 2009 at 5:12 PM
Regards to Tiawan,doesn`t the United States have a
defence treaty,so that if Tiawan`s attacked,America
is obligated,irregardless of what political party is
in office?
canopfor on May 18, 2009 at 5:12 PM
Are you sick? Coward is somebody who’s hiding from the argument. I, according to you, openly changed my mind under opponents’ pressure. Do you speak English at all? Do you know what English words mean? Moron.
Of course, I’m not backstepping. I didn’t elaborate, and it was a mistake, which I need to correct. The overwhelming majority of developed countries do not have any official religion, culture or ethnicity.
With respect to religion, some do. Like the UK would be one example. Certainly, their official religion is nothing like Israel’s official religion. Imagine the UK filtering out prospective immigrants solely because they have no proof they are Anglican. Still, technically they do have an official religion, which I of course acknowledge.
Official culture and ethnicity is universally viewed as the most horrible sign. If you say “Russia is a country for ethnically Russians (which are 85% of the population)”, then you go to prison per Article 282, part 1 of the Penal code (inciting racial, ethnic etc hatred). I’m not supporting this law. I’m telling you what the formal standard is.
Naturally, we must differentiate debates among legal scholars from pretenses by people who really have a clear bloody agenda. Which is why I said at the very beginning that force would be main and legitimate tool at Israel’s disposal in the foreseeable future.
However, demanding a recognition “as a Jewish state” is unnecessary, both in theory and as demonstrated in practice with Jordan and Egypt. Which was my whole point. Not that I didn’t foresee that the deranged morons on Hot Air would dive into their usual mode of lying and misrepresenting their opponent’s views.
radiofreevillage on May 18, 2009 at 5:14 PM
Fact: Damascus was a Greek town.
Fact: The ‘Sand’ Arabs arrived around 100 AD.
Fact: The Romans threw them out.
Fact: NEVER has there been a Palestinian nation, EVAH.
Fact: Islam took Jerusalem.
Fact: Jews took it back.
Fact: Liberals refuse to acknowledge the above facts because they are scared of boogeymen.
Limerick on May 18, 2009 at 5:17 PM
The world to be seems unbelievably silly. There are lots of “adults” actually upset that terrorists responsible for 9/11 were waterboarded (for useful info) and there are even adults in politics & diplomacy who think there can be a “two state solution” – as if Israel should agree to live next to a state dedicated to Israel’s disappearance. One would think there would be a lot of pressure on the Palestinians to recognize Israel’s right to permanent existence, but no, all the pressure seems to be on Israel! It must be a crazy dream and I’m starting to wonder if I’ll see next a mad hatter’s tea party with Obama under the hat.
Chessplayer on May 18, 2009 at 5:20 PM
Well, it’s still a part of the US, but the Democrat state O’bama claims to have been born in has been trying to establish itself as a home for just ethnic Hawaiian people for years. See “the Akaka Bill”, which both O’bama and Biden voted for. Its author has admitted that it would eventually result in Hawai’i seceding from the US.
Del Dolemonte on May 18, 2009 at 5:22 PM
O/T: What’s your ELO?
I totally agree that some form of formal acknowledgment of Israel is a prerequisite for anything that may follow.
radiofreevillage on May 18, 2009 at 5:23 PM
How old are you? Just curious. Can you give a range?
radiofreevillage on May 18, 2009 at 5:24 PM
Bush is not president now.
Johan Klaus on May 18, 2009 at 5:25 PM
Are you trying to stalk them?
Johan Klaus on May 18, 2009 at 5:29 PM
Israelis take great pride in the holy sites belonging to Christianity here, not only is there freedom to worship but we encourage visitors by the tens of thousands to come enjoy shared history & heritage.
Christian sites around the Sea of Galilee are amongst some of the more beautiful spots in the country, and clearly one cannot step 10 feet in the Old City in Jerusalem without literally stepping into some amazing new slice of history.
Thank you for pointing out that adherents of Islam are also entirely free to worship everywhere in Israel, including once ‘barred holy sights’ in Jerusalem under previous ‘custodians’..
saus on May 18, 2009 at 5:29 PM
conopher, “everyone does not want peace”, or at least, the only peace that most of the arab and/or muslims would like to give Israel is the peace of the grave. Not much to bargain with there, only whether the death will come tomorrow or ten years from now.
eaglewingz08 on May 18, 2009 at 5:31 PM
Go visit the nations of the Arab League.
Daemonocracy on May 18, 2009 at 5:32 PM
true dat. Just like there is no unique “palestinian” language or a unique “palestinian” religion – they are arabs, speaking arabic and are majority muslim. The notion of the palestinian statehood/nation, was created by those damn Russians/Soviets in the annals of the KGB whose modus operandi has always been to find some unhappy bunch of criminals, train it, arm it, give it an ideology and let it lose on the western world – like they did the PLO. Before the 1950′s “palastenians” were known as just arabs happy to be alive and get state aid. Oh, and Abbas/Abu Mazzen speaks absolutely fluent Russian… that he just happened to pick up somewhere in his career as a terrorist- need I say more ?
runner on May 18, 2009 at 5:34 PM
Israels take great pride…..
saus on May 18,2009 at 5:29PM.
saus:
I enjoy your posts,please when the Israel threads come
up on H/A,I like your take on it,and God Bless Israel,
saus:)
canopfor on May 18, 2009 at 5:34 PM
That fits the pattern of a man who brought the Egg of Power into the White House. It speaks of a narcissist obsessed with power and appearance who will ignore the truly important just because it’s hard.
Perhaps he’ll get yotch-smacked by reality when someone horrible happens that he can’t blame on Bush. I just hope its not too horrible, whatever that is.
commenter on May 18, 2009 at 5:35 PM
Wait, you do realize that France jealously guards their Culture as does French Quebec. There are laws in place to preserve their culture even and these are developed societies.
Daemonocracy on May 18, 2009 at 5:35 PM
I’ll just skip your pathetic weeping, wuss, and get straight to the point.
Jewish nature of Israel is threatened by a huge Muslim minority, and the “right of return” demanded by PA.
Just tell me, what do you think they’d do when they are a majority or near-majority? Hand out plastic dolls of Michelle-O?
Can you seriously say you see absolutely no reason why Israel insists on the PA to recognize it’s a Jewish state, not a state designated for future “Palestine 3: The return of Jaffa”? Just say it. I dare you.
Aristotle on May 18, 2009 at 5:36 PM
+ Texas
Limerick on May 18, 2009 at 5:36 PM
Fact: Damascus was a Greek town.
Fact: The ‘Sand’ Arabs arrived around 100 AD.
Fact: The Romans threw them out.
Fact: NEVER has there been a Palestinian nation, EVAH.
Obama is clueless. I suspect he will speak for Netananahyu and totally misquote him. Israel is finding out that obama is an empty suit regarding foreign policy.
seven on May 18, 2009 at 5:37 PM
When Manuel would do something stupid in front of the guests, Fawlty would say “don’t mind him, he’s from Barcelona.”
Basically I’d tell people not to mind you, you’re from Russia.
JiangxiDad on May 18, 2009 at 5:39 PM
Oh, and English is not my first language. In fact, it’s not even my second language. I was going to attribute the fact i didn’t see an admission of mistake (on which your entire argument was built, btw) – but only cowardly backstepping, to my poor English skills. But then i remembered who i was dealing with. And laughed.
Aristotle on May 18, 2009 at 5:42 PM
Can’t blame you. I’m sure it would pass for an argument for a lot of HA visitors.
radiofreevillage on May 18, 2009 at 5:47 PM
Bibi wants to meet the ONE in person to size him up. Bibi KNOWS they are on there own. Bibi wants to report back to his people that Mr. ZERO is just that.
Now they can plan and tell Obama we will do what we need to do. So WTF….
izoneguy on May 18, 2009 at 5:48 PM
Nice name calling.
Johan Klaus on May 18, 2009 at 5:50 PM
Of which radio is a visitor. It hasn’t made a single point, other then the point of a lap dog of the phoo-phoo set. Ain’t it cute!?
Limerick on May 18, 2009 at 5:52 PM
After reading the assessment the other day, of the possible conventional airstrike missions against Iran, I’ve concluded they will have a low probability of really stopping the Iranian nuclear program.
We have the historical perspective of ending a war with a nuclear weapon strike. We do not have the historical perspective of starting one. MAD won’t apply here, when the lunatics on the other side haven’t achieved nuclear capability yet.
If I were Bibi, I’d be very comfortable with giving Iran 72 hours warning to reduce the civilian casualties, and strike them with your nuclear weapons first.
The aftermath from the anti-Israel crowd probably won’t be any worse than after a conventional strike, and you will have actually stopped Iran’s program, and eliminated their leadership. It probably will give any other troublemakers pause for about the next 30 years.
I could live with that.
Jimmy Doolittle on May 18, 2009 at 5:54 PM
The Ruptured Duck smiles.
Limerick on May 18, 2009 at 5:55 PM
MedicalSchoolCatholic:
Now, this may seem strange, but I honestly AGREE with many of MSC’s quibbles, though perhaps not in the way s/he would think.
EXACTLY.
Why should we not have told Putin that his armor divisions would meet large numbers of highly-trained and well equipped “volunteers” if he did not immediately stop his aggression against Georgia?
Why should we not fight on the beaches of Taiwan against Chinese tyranny should the need arises?
WHY NOT?
The expansion of tyrannical powers has long been recognized as being a necessary evil at BEST (USSR WWII), and at worst
a massive and clear danger to the US and the West.
So while Israel may be marginally more important and vastly more competent than Taiwan or Georgia, why should we shy away from supporting all against any threat to their sovereignty and Democracy?
But, of course, our dear trollish friend takes it in the wrong direction.
Um, maybe because
A. They are easily the most competent “proxy” (to the extent they are) that we could ever ask for.
B. They have, on the whole, been a loyal ally.
C. You don’t get friendly territory on the coast of a region about the size of North American and almost uniformly hostile every day.
Do these facts mean anything to you?
Didn’t think so.
Turtler on May 18, 2009 at 5:58 PM
That’d be Japan.
TheUnrepentantGeek on May 18, 2009 at 5:58 PM
Heh, I don’t think he’ll have much of a positive legacy if he doesn’t deal with Iran somehow.
Upstater85 on May 18, 2009 at 6:00 PM
Thanks + Thumbs Up! Canada & Canada Israel relationship is strongest it has ever been, Harper is a great and principled PM, his leadership benefits Canada everywhere.
saus on May 18, 2009 at 6:02 PM
Just trying to keep his legacy alive.
Jimmy Doolittle on May 18, 2009 at 6:05 PM
How about that wall? No more bus explosions. People are going out for a slice of pizza without fear of execution. And all it took was a good fence. Who would’ve thought? That’s what really pisses off hard-core muslims. They don’t have that bloodbath to watch anymore.
That’s the big news. And now, after violence has failed as a tool for the hateful islamists out there, now they want to try a boycott on Israel. Good God, what a bunch of backwards people. (Just talking about the hateful islamist here)
It’s like the Tamil Tigers. What the hell was that about?!! 25 years of war and for what? Now they’ll sit down, someone will pull a Gandhi, and they’ll work something out but all that murder and mayhem before? How do these clowns w/guns get the masses to follow them?
dingbat on May 18, 2009 at 6:13 PM
The Godless heathen blogger redeems himself with an excellent foreign policy post that makes my pubes tingle. Israel has a historic and legal claim to its existence as a state. The key is to make sure that state is Jewish (any alternative would lead to the eventual death of the state and its division among the neighboring nations) and secure. The right of return must be rejected as any part of a deal, but that’s a sticking point the Palestinians aren’t inclined to accept. The truth is that terrorists don’t know how to, or even desire to, govern. All they know is violent resistance. There was a chance for peace during Camp David Summit when the Israelis made a serious offer and it was flatly rejected without a counter offer. If the Palestinians want peace they have to compromise as well. They have no problem sending women and children to die, but they lack the courage to compromise.
Stickeehands on May 18, 2009 at 6:15 PM
I agree. Israel needs to make a major strike that goes well beyond merely trying to retard the Iranian nuke program. Frankly, I would advise Israel to take control of some oil fields, too. It won’t be long before others (Russia, Chinja, …) start eyeing the gulf fields, themselves, seeing how the US is going to commit suicide under the Traitor-in-Chief.
progressoverpeace on May 18, 2009 at 6:16 PM
78% of American Jews don’t care what happens to Israel.
slp on May 18, 2009 at 6:25 PM
Chamberlain probably uttered something about English and Germans both being Germanic peoples. Things didn’t work out so well though.
MB4 on May 18, 2009 at 6:27 PM
No, I don’t think so. No group in history except the Palestinians has been granted refugee status in perpetuity, i.e., generation after generation.
Why does Israel have to adopt the multicultural ethic of America, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and western Europe? Nobody critiques and demands changes to the immigration policies of any other Middle Eastern countries, or of North African nations, or of India, Pakistan, China, Japan, Lithuania, Poland, or Burundi.
And by the way, no other country provides the sole refuge in the world for a nation – not race – that lost one third of its people to genocide only 2 generations ago. Israel has very good reasons for wanting to maintain a Jewish majority given the long history of Islamic subjugation of non-Muslims in the countries where Muslims hold power.
Quit playing silly games.
ProfessorMiao on May 18, 2009 at 6:33 PM
Perhaps not for long. I hear from a reliable source that the Harper government will fall before summer is out. Ignatieff expects to ride to power on Obama’s coattails. And that is not good news for Canada-Israel relations.
ProfessorMiao on May 18, 2009 at 6:35 PM
Whether or not Jewish Americans support Israel is moot. We need Israel as an ally in the mideast far more than we need to coddle Iran. The Europeans won’t help, they expect us to deal with the problem. They acknowledge there is a problem, they just don’t want to deal with it. Israel has a proven record of being able to build its economy, take care of and defend her citizens. What has the PLO done to make “Palestine” a viable state? All they know how to do is harrass Israel, with a whole lot of help from Iran.
As long as Iran is funding Hamas, with the intention of destroying Israel, how can this be resolved? Really, what would it take for Iran to stop its meddling?
Asking Israel to work towards a “two-state” solution with Iran still committed to the anniliation of Israel is a clear example of putting the cart before the horse IMHO.
LindaDinNev on May 18, 2009 at 6:39 PM
Obama want a war in which Israel perishes. No other way that I see to interpret this.
ElRonaldo on May 18, 2009 at 6:41 PM
I get really tired of these jerks even talking about a “2-state solution” when it’s perfectly clear to anyone with a brain that the arab societies in the West Bank and Gaza are separate and do not get along. If anything, these disingenuous people are aiming for a 3-state solution, but they don’t have the guts to admit it. That said, the only chance Israel has is to kick the arabs out of the West Bank. Period. End of story. They’ve had more than enough chances and they blew them all. Now, it’s clear that Israel could NEVER be safe with an independent arab state in the West Bank. The arabs will just have to leave. They can go to gaza and stay there until they prove themselves incapable of acting like civilized humans (as they really have already, but I’d give them one more chance) after which they’ll have to just be flushed into Sinai to let Egypt have them back. There is no other solution.
progressoverpeace on May 18, 2009 at 6:45 PM
++
Aristotle on May 18, 2009 at 6:46 PM
Very close. I think that he is banking on Israel taking out Iran and then putting an embargo (with a possible naval blockade) on Israel and starving the country to death. This seems to be the plan, since we all saw the world’s insanely anti-Israel reaction to Israel’s attack in Gaza. With the attack on Iran, it’s clear that world reaction will be 10000 times worse.
progressoverpeace on May 18, 2009 at 6:47 PM
For as long as I can remember American presidents have tried to end the fighting between Arabs and Isrealis. I think it is pointless. The only people who can make this happen live in the Middle East, not Washington DC.
Terrye on May 18, 2009 at 6:55 PM
Yes, they have stepped in and imposed ceasefires when, had Israel been left to finish the job, the Arabs (1967 and 1973), Hezbollah (2006) and Hamas (a few months ago) could have been brought to their knees. That, I sincerely believe, is the only posture from which the Arabs will ever grant recognition to Israel.
ProfessorMiao on May 18, 2009 at 7:00 PM
Shall we play a Democrat game, Obama? What benchmarks will you use to determine whether the talks “are having some benefit”? What “benefit” do you foresee as the outcome?
onlineanalyst on May 18, 2009 at 7:51 PM
Mass expulsions? What next? Genocide because they won’t leave?
mycowardice on May 18, 2009 at 8:13 PM
and what do you think the ‘palestinians’ want to do to the jews???
right4life on May 18, 2009 at 8:28 PM
No one thinks twice about forcing Jews out of the West Bank, and they all cheered kicking Jews out of Gaza. Take your hypocrisy and stuff it, scumbag.
The arabs have worked very hard to make themselves serious threats to Jews’ existence, so they have to leave. Period. Cry me a river.
progressoverpeace on May 18, 2009 at 8:40 PM
Guns :{ Guns mostly. Money’s involved too.
Chaz706 on May 18, 2009 at 8:47 PM
And if they don’t… what do you do next? Genocide AND cry me a river?
mycowardice on May 18, 2009 at 8:50 PM
At some point one party has to go if this keeps up. Two can only tango if both are willing not to kill the other in the process.
At some point we need an ultimatum: A Cease fire begins now. First person to break the ceasefire leaves. Evictions enforceable by death.
That’s about what it will take.
Chaz706 on May 18, 2009 at 8:50 PM
If anyone takes a historical look at the territories involved in the formation of Israel, you’ll find that the region prior to Israel’s founding was Trans-Jordan. That area encompassed both the current Israel and current Jordan.
There has already been the provisions for the Arabs of the region into Jordan, and the Jews into their state of Israel. Israel has done above and beyond to allow a significant democratic Arab population into Israel.
Is it not pretty obvious to see that the official Arab position will not be satisfied until Israel no longer exists as a Jewish state?
Jimmy Doolittle on May 18, 2009 at 8:54 PM
I see, so if the palestinians want to do it, it now becomes the acceptable standard.
mycowardice on May 18, 2009 at 8:55 PM
Forced expulsion. If they won’t go, then just bulldoze every building in sight. They’ll leave. If they bomb Israel some more, then return the bombings at a 100-1 ratio and move up from there.
Scum like you won’t be satisfied until Israel is gone and 6 million Jews are exterminated, so enough with your idiotic “genocide” blubberings.
progressoverpeace on May 18, 2009 at 8:56 PM
Yep.
progressoverpeace on May 18, 2009 at 8:57 PM
Why does anyone believe Ahmadinejad will be thinking, “Well, I did say Israel should be wiped from the face of the Earth, and I did get this nice new nuke. But now that there is a Palestinian state…I guess I can hang with them fellas for a bit.”
Every Mideast monster from Ahmadinejad to Saddam to bin Laden has used the plight of the Palestinians to justify all sorts of atrocities against Israel and against us. Yet there has yet to be any evidence that is anything more than an excuse. Obama can help provide a homeland to the Palestinians, as well as giving each one of them a house and a six-figure job. Ahmadinejad will still try to eliminate Israel the first chance he gets.
DarkKnight3565 on May 18, 2009 at 8:58 PM
Is Obama’s version of peace one of D’ar Islam, the peace of an Islamic Middle East, where the infidel pays tribute in order to exist, converts, or dies?
That word peace is so slippery when applied to these negotiations.
onlineanalyst on May 18, 2009 at 9:02 PM
I would also point out, interestingly, that more “palestinian arabs” have US citizenship, or Israeli citizenship, than citizenship in any arab country (except for Jordan, which is the palestinian state). All the Pali supporters can chew on that fact for a second and try to figure out why that is.
progressoverpeace on May 18, 2009 at 9:03 PM
Point taken, analyst, but I would go even further. I have problems with the word, “negotiations”. What do the pals have to negotiate? Nothing. They have nothing and nothing to offer in any “negotiation”. It’s a poor joke to even call them ‘negotiations’.
progressoverpeace on May 18, 2009 at 9:06 PM
More to it than that when mothers send their children out in bomb vests and dance a jig when the dust settles.
dingbat on May 18, 2009 at 9:06 PM
Jews, by law, cannot become citizens of Jordan. It’s a capital crime in the Palestinian Authority to sell real estate to a Jew.
It’s virtually impossible for someone who is not ethnically Japanese to become a Japanese citizen. Germany also pretty much restricts German citizenship to ethnic Germans (which means that Turkish “guest” workers can never be completely assimilated).
rokemronnie on May 18, 2009 at 9:10 PM
Why 6 more months? Why not just say indefinitely? Iran has til the end of my first term. There you go, 3 1/2 more years or else! I swear it! Or you Mullahs will get another strongly worded letter from the UN security council and my Sec. State will send you one too! I might even sign it!
Sincerely, Barack (I’m sh*tting in my pants) Obama
Or President Pantywaist, whatever works!
JAM on May 18, 2009 at 9:15 PM
That’s not true. There is plenty of Christian missionary activity in Israel. What’s illegal in Israel is offering some kind of financial or material inducement in the course of proselytizing.
rokemronnie on May 18, 2009 at 9:16 PM
I love that statute of limitation on ignored refugee claims.
As for the immigration policies, every country can set the policies it wants. But it doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t call a spade a spade either. Finally, I think it’s risky to think like you do in terms of race, because fundamentally you are describing the 20% of Israeli Arab as some kind of danger for the country. (of course I am sure everyone will also be for expusling them)
mycowardice on May 18, 2009 at 9:17 PM
In an odd twist of reality, the most liberal (progressive) country on the planet is also the one of the hardest to become a citizen of. In fact, by law, if you were not born a Dane, you will never become one.
Denmark. Talk about strange “try to become one of us” laws. They wrote the book on that stuff.
BobMbx on May 18, 2009 at 9:23 PM
They ran away in 1948, they ran away in 1967 (IDF units chased after them to try to prevent them from leaving the West Bank lest the Arabs create another refugee cudgel with which to bash Israel) and they’ll run away again. Why do you think the Arabs feared Rabbi Kahane so much that he was Bin Laden’s first victim in the US? Because they know their own culture is filled with cowardice and know that a large number of “Palestinians” would take Kahane’s offer to pay them to leave.
rokemronnie on May 18, 2009 at 9:29 PM
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