Video: Border Patrol tasers pastor at traffic stop

posted at 10:11 am on May 18, 2009 by Allahpundit

The first video’s a month old and a minor viral hit online, the second one — showing the incident described in the first — is brand new. Why would the BP be so impatient with a stopped driver as to get rough after just a few minutes? Well, turns out it wasn’t just a few minutes: According to Fox Phoenix, it was a “standoff” that lasted for more than an hour. As for the taser, the Phoenix New Times weighs pros and cons:

At first glance, the use of the Taser seems to violate a policy adopted by most Valley police agencies. When Tasers were first introduced, police used them against suspects who simply refused to obey orders or resisted arrest not by force, but by sitting down or pulling away from an officer’s grabbing hands. Such use was later prohibited in most agencies when police realized Tasers could potentially be harmful to some suspects.

However, the DPS could probably make the case that Anderson was a threat to officer safety because he had control of his vehicle. Once the agents and officers decided to pull him out of the car (a questionable decision, itself), they must have decided to Tase him right away to prevent the possibility of the vehicle driving off with an officer stuck in the window.

Anderson claims he was repeatedly Tasered even after being dragged from his car, but that’s not shown on his video.

I think it might depend on whether he had the keys in the ignition at the time. If so, the fear that he’d try to take off after they broke the windows is reasonable; if not, not so much.

Update: I meant to mention — this didn’t happen on the border. Anderson was driving east from San Diego to Phoenix. What was the BP doing there?

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Anderson was driving east from San Diego to Phoenix. What was the BP doing there?

Yeah, once those illegals get across the border, they don’t go anywhere, do they? They call ‘olly-olly-oxen-free’ and the BP doesn’t have any further recourse.

Right?

James on May 18, 2009 at 11:01 AM

What he was really saying was, “A police officer can do whatever he wants to do… to his son.”

UltimateBob on May 18, 2009 at 10:45 AM

Tru dat. You must know my dad :)

Ya, I mean, we all know the Constitution is now null and void. Just comply with the authorities every command, law be damned!

TheBigOldDog on May 18, 2009 at 10:51 AM

C’mon now…Perhaps we should all question law enforcement when we’re stopped? Heck, anarchy!

Where in the Constitution is mouthing off to a law enforcement officer some “right”? We do have a system of laws in this country, and a court system to address grievances if you feel your rights were violated.

Pretty simply stuff.

JetBoy on May 18, 2009 at 11:01 AM

You’re wrong. Once a LEO engages you in a traffic stop, you are in his custody. Your failure to cooperate or obey an order at the scene qualifies you for further detention or actions.

bloviator on May 18, 2009 at 11:00 AM

He wasn’t legally stopped. He committed no moving violation. He was caught in a road block which by their nature does not distinguish between the innocent and guilty.

TheBigOldDog on May 18, 2009 at 11:01 AM

This thread reveals that lawlessness is not an exclusive quality of libtards. I guess there are such things as conservatards, too.

Akzed on May 18, 2009 at 11:02 AM

Googled for a few minutes, found this article that indicates this guy apparently has several interactions with law enforcement on Youtube.

Dude’s looking for attention. Looks like he got some.

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2009/04/17/20090417borderbeating0417-ON.html

cs89 on May 18, 2009 at 11:02 AM

somebody please call this guy the whaaaaaaaaabulance .

Mojack420 on May 18, 2009 at 11:02 AM

C’mon now…Perhaps we should all question law enforcement when we’re stopped? Heck, anarchy!

Where in the Constitution is mouthing off to a law enforcement officer some “right”? We do have a system of laws in this country, and a court system to address grievances if you feel your rights were violated.

Pretty simply stuff.

JetBoy on May 18, 2009 at 11:01 AM

He was not stopped. He committed no offense. He was caught in a road block. Pretty simple indeed.

TheBigOldDog on May 18, 2009 at 11:03 AM

I think all of this can be resolved by waterboarding the dog who obviously thought it would be hilarious to provide the cops with false intelligence.

Zetterson on May 18, 2009 at 11:01 AM

My vote for “thread winner”

JetBoy on May 18, 2009 at 11:03 AM

If police have probable cause that’s one thing,

How do you know they didn’t have probable cause? Those guys didn’t look all worked up and bent out of shape. They were all calm, the driver was the one who was raising his voice and combative.

peacenprosperity on May 18, 2009 at 11:03 AM

This guy should be grateful they used tasers rather than than their 9mm’s. There is a reason police carry those big guns on their sides. What a DORK. I pity his congregation.

dalec on May 18, 2009 at 11:04 AM

Gee I wonder if you’d consider that applicable in Saudi Arabia or Nazi Germany.

Ah, an early nomination for Godwin’s Law.

Look, I simply trust police more than you do.

And I believe that calmly cooperating with LEO’s is the better way to go all around.

Obviously your mileage varies on that.

Religious_Zealot on May 18, 2009 at 11:04 AM

cs89 on May 18, 2009 at 11:02 AM

Thank God for people like him willing to take a beating for standing up for his constitutional rights. If it wasn’t for guys like him I hate to thing what kind of police state we’d be living in.

TheBigOldDog on May 18, 2009 at 11:04 AM

This preacher did not fit the profile of on who dabbles in drug, weapons or human trafficing. He simply strikes me as the pastor of one of those churches with a rainbow flag hanging over the front entrance. From where I’m sitting, the cops had no real reason to suspect this man, nor did this man have any reason to refuse to comply with the cops requests.

Zetterson on May 18, 2009 at 10:51 AM

Oh, but perhaps the cops had just been briefed on the new profile for domestic terrorist…did the pastor have a pro-life bumper sticker?..a cross hanging from the rear view?…a gun rack on the back window?..hmmmmm???? Was this pull-over a result of the fact that he is white, driving late at night with these obvious signs of extremism?

LEBA on May 18, 2009 at 11:04 AM

2) Specifically, if the officer’s story is right and a dog “hit” on his car, then the 4th Amendment doesn’t apply.

True, but normally, the reaction of the dog is done in full view of the suspect, in order to establish a clear line of probable cause. If the dog did react, why were they unwilling to show the reaction to the pastor? I smell power trip.

3) I also generally believe that people should actually KNOW the constitution before they start arguing with police over the “constitutionality” of what the police are trying to do.

Religious_Zealot on May 18, 2009 at 10:58 AM

How do you know this pastor didn’t? Even so, knowing the constitution doesn’t mean the person isn’t going to be a dickhole. This case is an example. However, dickhole or not, he had every right to not give consent for a search. Until we have some sort of confirmation of the drug dog’s reaction, other than the officer’s word which is now highly questionable due to the lack of there being anything that would have cause the reaction, it certainly seems that the search was done with as little cause as possible.

And, as others have mentioned, was this some illegal alien trying to cross the border? Oh, that’s right…common sense profiling is racist. Can’t possibly do that.

MadisonConservative on May 18, 2009 at 11:04 AM

We truly live in a Police State! This is really scary stuff! This is not the America that I grew up in!

sabbott on May 18, 2009 at 11:05 AM

BTW, resisting a peace officer is arrestable.

dalec on May 18, 2009 at 11:05 AM

WHY would he not let them search his car? it was between getting arrested and them searching my car…. well they’d be all up in that car.

We do have a right to not be harassed by police. I have been harassed by police MANY times when I’m honest, passive, etc. etc. Got turned away at the border AFTER having my car searched. Those of you saying this guy ‘got what he deserved’, I didn’t see him approaching the police in a hostile manner. . . I saw the police approaching him.

I think there is a tendency too for police to harass someone more if they are alone (no witnesses). That’s my problem. . . I am usually alone.

I FEAR cops. I’d rather cops NOT be around. Do I FEAR cops because I am a danger to society? No. I FEAR cops because of their unrestrained power. They can do whatever they want to you – and people will defend them.

Should I FEAR cops? You make the call, but I do. I have had situations where I was in danger, robbed, friends of mine shot dead (not when I was with them) and cops weren’t there to ‘help’. My only run-ins with cops have been when they made everything worse and protected nobody.

Bottom line is I don’t hate cops. I treat them with respect when they confront me. But a cop can’t just come up to you and say ‘do what I say or I will beat you up’. . . but they do.

I fear cops. Let me say that again just so it resonates with the cop defenders. COPS FRIGHTEN ME. Look at the one who got away with the murders of his wives. I fear cops.

ThackerAgency on May 18, 2009 at 11:05 AM

I think all of this can be resolved by waterboarding the dog who obviously thought it would be hilarious to provide the cops with false intelligence.

Zetterson on May 18, 2009 at 11:01 AM

Thread over. You win.

MadisonConservative on May 18, 2009 at 11:06 AM

Ah, an early nomination for Godwin’s Law.

Look, I simply trust police more than you do.

And I believe that calmly cooperating with LEO’s is the better way to go all around.

Obviously your mileage varies on that.

Religious_Zealot on May 18, 2009 at 11:04 AM

I wonder if you feel that way when they knock on your door and ask for your guns because the state has determined you are a Right Wing zealot on the HDS list. Oh, that’s different right? Sure it is.

TheBigOldDog on May 18, 2009 at 11:06 AM

Until we have some sort of confirmation of the drug dog’s reaction,

And that is done by scheduling a deposition of the dog and all the witnesses?

peacenprosperity on May 18, 2009 at 11:06 AM

BTW, resisting a peace officer is arrestable.

dalec on May 18, 2009 at 11:05 AM

resisting a police officer who is the middle of an illegal act is courage.

TheBigOldDog on May 18, 2009 at 11:07 AM

Tase him again!

GarandFan on May 18, 2009 at 11:07 AM

Do what the cop asks you to do. Don’t argue Consitutional law with him. If you want to fight it out, do it in court. That’s where you fight Consitutional battles. This pastor is a few bricks short of a load if he thinks he can just stonewall the cops forever using high school debate techniques. If that tactic were successful, he’d still be sitting there arguing with the cops…either that or they’d have to let him go.

sdd on May 18, 2009 at 11:07 AM

I have no sympathy for people who create “stand off” situations with police officers and then complain when it ends badly, for them.

Refusing to cooperate at all, even to answer simple questions (by his own statement), is calculated to arouse suspicion. Refusing to comply after having successfully aroused suspicion only guarantees an escalation of the situation. If this guy wants to make a case of improper search, fine. He’s already documenting the conversation and scenario, including his assertion of a lack of probable cause, on video to pursue a wrongful detention/arrest case later in a court of law.

Resisting arrest is a crime in and of itself. Arguing that you’re innocent, while resisting arrest, doesn’t alter that fact, even if you actually are innocent of any wrongdoing up to that point.

cruadin on May 18, 2009 at 11:08 AM

And that is done by scheduling a deposition of the dog and all the witnesses?

peacenprosperity on May 18, 2009 at 11:06 AM

When that’s their basis for probable cause, confirmation is needed. Otherwise, as I said, it could be applied anytime they have a dog available, and be an utter lie if solely based on the officer’s word.

MadisonConservative on May 18, 2009 at 11:08 AM

I think this guy was just doing this on purpose, just looking to be a dick to cops. Kind of like the girl who wears the low v-neck, and the gets upset people are staring at her boobs. You go out looking to mess with cops, don’t be surprised if you get tazed.

MDWNJ on May 18, 2009 at 11:08 AM

He was not stopped. He committed no offense. He was caught in a road block. Pretty simple indeed.

TheBigOldDog on May 18, 2009 at 11:03 AM

Well, by giving the officer lip, and lecturing him on “rights”, he sure gave the cop an excuse to detain him.

Yeah, it was a roadblock. Apparently, the cops had “probable cause” to search the vehicle, because the dog reacted. Checkpoints are not unconstitutional. Neither is probable cause.

JetBoy on May 18, 2009 at 11:09 AM

Yep! I rolled through an empty four way stop where I used to live one day, and this cop was RIGHT THERE. So, I just pulled right over, she didn’t have to put on any horn or signal.

She came up, I said I rolled through, then she let me go and said:

“Next time you stop at this four way, I f*cking run around here.”

As she walked away, I looked at her booty and said to myself:
“Yea — you do run..” MM!!

blatantblue on May 18, 2009 at 10:44 AM

That reminded me that I did something very similar and pulled over without being “stopped”. No ticket for me, either, and the officer told me it was because I was smart enough to stop. One ticket in my life, one stop for DUI but I passed the sobriety test (walk a straight line, bend over backwards with eyes closed and touch nose), so they let me go then, too.

zeebeach on May 18, 2009 at 11:09 AM

Update: I meant to mention — this didn’t happen on the border. Anderson was driving east from San Diego to Phoenix. What was the BP doing there?

Allahpundit

Clearly you’ve never made the drive before. At any given time there are at least 2 to 3 border checkpoints between San Diego and Phoenix/Tucson when traveling on the I-8 to the I-10 junction

One between Alpine and Jacumba in the mountain pass between San Diego and Imperial Counties. At least one in Arizona right as you near Maricopa County, and usually one thrown in anywhere in between for good measure to throw off coyotes and illegals.

My wife and I headed to Tucson from San Diego a couple weeks ago to visit some family and witnessed firsthand some BP agents chasing some illegals through the brush on foot near about 5 miles east of the Jacumba checkpoint in the mountain pass. 25 years living near the border in Texas and California, I’ve seen my fair share of illegals being processed, but that was the first time I’d actually seen BP agents in the act of chasing and apprehending.

selias on May 18, 2009 at 11:09 AM

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2009/04/17/20090417borderbeating0417-ON.html
cs89 on May 18, 2009 at 11:02 AM

That article clears things up for me, the guy is a dickhead looking for trouble. Probably a barry supporter who has no clue what his stupidity has helped create.

peacenprosperity on May 18, 2009 at 11:10 AM

Two unanswered questions:

Why was he pulled over in the first place? (was he profiled, or just lucky number 13?)

Did the dog actually signal? (Can that be proven with video of the actual event?)

LEBA on May 18, 2009 at 11:10 AM

JetBoy on May 18, 2009 at 11:09 AM

Dude, you of all people should be really worried about this trend.

TheBigOldDog on May 18, 2009 at 11:10 AM

Stupidity can be painful

DarkCurrent on May 18, 2009 at 11:11 AM

Well, by giving the officer lip, and lecturing him on “rights”, he sure gave the cop an excuse to detain him.

JetBoy on May 18, 2009 at 11:09 AM

So giving an officer lip is now a crime?

MadisonConservative on May 18, 2009 at 11:11 AM

He couldn’t see how the dog reacted because the fool wouldn’t get out of his car!!!

dalec on May 18, 2009 at 11:11 AM

Let the record show…I’m in full agreement with Religious_Zealot here. Doesn’t happen too often ;-)

JetBoy on May 18, 2009 at 11:11 AM

Here’s a better description of the law as it pertains to the “functional border.” It comes from a 2004 FBI bulletin.

Money section for those too lazy to follow the link:

FUNCTIONAL EQUIVALENT

“Under the ‘functional equivalent’ doctrine, routine border searches are constitutionally permissible at places other than actual borders where travelers frequently enter or exit the country.” Examples of functional equivalent borders include airports within the United States where international flights depart or first land and at an “established station near the border, at a point marking the confluence of two or more roads that extend from the border.” Of course, this means that those traveling by vehicle “may be stopped at fixed checkpoints near the border without individualized suspicion even if the stop is based largely on ethnicity.” Additionally, “boats on inland waters with ready access to the sea may be hailed and boarded with no suspicion whatever.” The first point inside the United States where a ship arriving from outside the country docks is another example of a border functional equivalent. The key feature of a border functional equivalent, then, is that it is “the first point at which an entrant may practically be detained.”

EXTENDED BORDER

“The extended border doctrine provides that non-routine border searches that occur near the border are deemed constitutionally permissible if reasonable under the Fourth Amendment,” something which is determined by a three-part test, “whether 1) there is a reasonable certainty [or a high degree of probability] that a border crossing has occurred; 2) there is a reasonable certainty that no change in the condition of the luggage [i.e., the item or person to be examined] has occurred since the border crossing; and 3) there is a reasonable suspicion that criminal activity has occurred.” This three-part test becomes necessary in an extended border search context because it “entails greater intrusion on an entrant’s legitimate expectation of privacy than does a search conducted at the border or its functional equivalent[.]” What, however, is reasonable certainty? This is a proof threshold that lies between probable cause and beyond a reasonable doubt. Regarding the second prong of the test, key to concluding whether or not there has been any change in the luggage, conveyance, or any other item, because it crossed the border are factors including “the time and distance from the original entry and the manner and extent of surveillance.” The signal characteristic that differentiates the extended border search from one conducted at the border’s functional equivalent is that the first “takes place after the first point in time when the entity might have been stopped within the country.” Significantly, a proper extended border like a functional equivalent search may take place without either a warrant or probable cause.

ROVING PATROLS

By statute, the Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS)55 has the power to search any vehicle located “within a reasonable distance from any external boundary of the United States” without a warrant. A reasonable distance is defined as “within 100 air miles from any external boundary of the United States.” However, such a yardstick is not necessarily determinative. “It is clear, of course, that no Act of Congress can authorize a violation of the Constitution.” Despite the statute and regulation, the Supreme Court refused to condone a suspicionless Border Patrol vehicle search 25 air miles north of the border with Mexico that resulted from a roving patrol. Note that a roving patrol does not keep the suspect or suspect conveyance under nearly continuous surveillance from the point where the actual border was crossed. “In the absence of probable cause or consent, the search violated the…Fourth Amendment right to be free of ‘unreasonable searches and seizures.’” The Court continued, quoting from one of its earlier opinions, that “those lawfully within the country, entitled to use the public highways, have a right to free passage without interruption or search unless there is known to a competent official, authorized to search, probable cause for believing that their vehicles are carrying contraband or illegal merchandise.”

Not only may searches away from the border or its functional/extended equivalent not be conducted absent probable cause or consent, neither may brief stops be effected absent reasonable suspicion. In 1973, the Border Patrol stopped a car below San Clemente, Califor-nia, and away from the U.S.-Mexican border solely because all three of its occupants “appeared” to be of “Mexican descent.” The government relied on the INS statutory and regulatory to support its position that it had the authority to stop vehicles in the border area solely for the purpose of determining whether the occupants were legally in the United States. As before, the Border Patrol was disappointed before the Supreme Court. Al-though recognizing the serious illegal immigrant problem along the southwest border, the Court nevertheless concluded that “[t]he Fourth Amendment applies to all seizures of the person, including seizures that involve only a brief detention short of traditional arrest.” The Court went on to expand its remarks, noting

[e]xcept at the border and its functional equivalents, officers on roving patrol may stop vehicles only if they are aware of specific articulable facts, together with rational inferences from those facts, that reasonably warrant suspicion that the vehicles contain aliens who may be illegally in the country.

In sum, away from the actual, functional equivalent, or extended border, traditional Fourth Amendment concepts apply to both searches and seizures. Put differently, so-called roving patrols enjoy no special Fourth Amendment treatment, nor do they fall under any special exception to the reasonableness requirement.

Dukeboy01 on May 18, 2009 at 11:11 AM

If this douchebag was blocking one of the travel lanes on an interstate for over an hour (he refused to move over to the secondary), those tasers probably saved his life from all the people stacked up behind him.

James on May 18, 2009 at 11:12 AM

“I trust your papers are in order, citizen?”

CTD on May 18, 2009 at 11:12 AM

Anyone who uses the word “dude” should be real careful around police.

dalec on May 18, 2009 at 11:12 AM

Oh, but perhaps the cops had just been briefed on the new profile for domestic terrorist…did the pastor have a pro-life bumper sticker?..a cross hanging from the rear view?…a gun rack on the back window?..hmmmmm???? Was this pull-over a result of the fact that he is white, driving late at night with these obvious signs of extremism?

LEBA on May 18, 2009 at 11:04 AM

Well, perhaps you can answer your own questions. Drug, weapons and human smugglers on or near the southern border of the United States have a particular profile. What is that profile? Did this man fit that profile?

What I’m saying is let granny pass. Use some common sense. Thats far more reliable and cost effective than random searches. I suspect this whole thing with the pastor started out as a random search.

Zetterson on May 18, 2009 at 11:12 AM

When that’s their basis for probable cause, confirmation is needed. Otherwise, as I said, it could be applied anytime they have a dog available, and be an utter lie if solely based on the officer’s word.

MadisonConservative Anarchist on May 18, 2009 at 11:08 AM

Fixed it for ya.

peacenprosperity on May 18, 2009 at 11:12 AM

“I trust your papers are in order, citizen?”

CTD on May 18, 2009 at 11:12 AM

Hehe +100

Upstater85 on May 18, 2009 at 11:13 AM

As an ex police officer and a libertarian light I have often questioned these check point stops. Where is the probable cause to stop all cars traveling on Highway 11? Have these checks been appealed to the supreme court level yet? In any case this minister is an arrogant, argumentative jerk. The way to handle this encounter is to comply with the office. You do this for your safety as well as his.

If you don’t like the process complain to the department after the fact. If you get no satisfaction from the department complain to your State or Federal representatives. Legal action would be the next step. One thing is certain, the taser did not cause brain damage. His attitude before the incident was even worse than his attitude in the after the fact explaination. Was he on drugs or alcohol?

chicken thief on May 18, 2009 at 11:13 AM

So giving an officer lip is now a crime?

MadisonConservative on May 18, 2009 at 11:11 AM

No, but it is stupid especially when they have cause to be detaining you (which is not the case here). That said, this guy never gave them lip that I could see. He simply stood up politely for his rights and got a heck of a beating for it. I may not want to be friends with this guy by I salute him for having the courage to take a beating he knew was coming in order to stand up for the Constitution.

TheBigOldDog on May 18, 2009 at 11:14 AM

So giving an officer lip is now a crime?

MadisonConservative on May 18, 2009 at 11:11 AM

No, just usually unnecessary. I spent 14 years of my life in Madison, so I know where you’re coming from. Don’t agree, but I understand.

zeebeach on May 18, 2009 at 11:14 AM

The more we let more authorities take control of our private property, the more we lose our rights.

Vincenzo on May 18, 2009 at 11:14 AM

JetBoy on May 18, 2009 at 11:09 AM

Jetboy is just happy that a Baptist got beaten up. If it had been a gay guy, he’d be in full rainbow renegade mode and hold this up as proof that gays are ‘discriminated against’.

It’s too bad he was a straight white Christian. If it didn’t say he was Baptist, Jetboy would be on his side.

ThackerAgency on May 18, 2009 at 11:15 AM

Fixed it for ya.

peacenprosperity on May 18, 2009 at 11:12 AM

Oh yes. Demanding a record of probable cause to sidestep the Fourth Amendment makes me a flaming anarchist. Just call me Jules Bonnot!

MadisonConservative on May 18, 2009 at 11:15 AM

I’m so happy our government has their priorities straight. //s

Upstater85 on May 18, 2009 at 11:16 AM

All I know is that the province of a “lawful order” seems to have expanded greatly in the last 20yrs or so. It has also seemed to have evolved into something law enforcement has used at will for primarily their own convenience.

The root of the problem would seem to lie in the question of who is supposed to be a “servant” of who. The whole concept of a “public servant” in all facets Gov’t/citizen interaction has gone the way of the dinosaur.

Archimedes on May 18, 2009 at 11:17 AM

Update: I meant to mention — this didn’t happen on the border. Anderson was driving east from San Diego to Phoenix. What was the BP doing there?

The last time I drove from the border to LA, the BP is at the crossing and quite a few miles farther north there is another BP checkpoint but I’ve been never stopped by the second one.

Blake on May 18, 2009 at 11:17 AM

Oh yes. Demanding a record of probable cause to sidestep the Fourth Amendment makes me a flaming anarchist. Just call me Jules Bonnot!

MadisonConservative on May 18, 2009 at 11:15 AM

Hey, now, don’t go whipping out that constitution-ma-thingy. //s

Upstater85 on May 18, 2009 at 11:18 AM

He must learn to respect their AUTHO RI TIE!

faol on May 18, 2009 at 10:59 AM

As has been said in the Security Forces: Don’t confuse your rank with my authority.

ladyingray on May 18, 2009 at 11:18 AM

If you’re concerned about our problems on the US/Mexico border with murder, kidnapping, illegal immigration and drug trafficking, it’s kinda hard to get too worked up about this.

flipflop on May 18, 2009 at 11:18 AM

No, but it is stupid especially when they have cause to be detaining you (which is not the case here). That said, this guy never gave them lip that I could see. He simply stood up politely for his rights and got a heck of a beating for it. I may not want to be friends with this guy by I salute him for having the courage to take a beating he knew was coming in order to stand up for the Constitution.

TheBigOldDog on May 18, 2009 at 11:14 AM

I didn’t see any either, but the point still stands. I’m not saying it’s not stupid, but it’s still not a crime, and it doesn’t circumvent the rights of the individual. If they’re giving lip to an officer, then the officer can use the law to punish them, if they’ve committed a crime, even if that crime was one mile over the speed limit. In this case, where was the crime? Either the dog had a reaction at nothing, which seems the most unlikely scenario, or the cop was lying about the reaction, which meant he didn’t have probable cause.

No, just usually unnecessary. I spent 14 years of my life in Madison, so I know where you’re coming from. Don’t agree, but I understand.

zeebeach on May 18, 2009 at 11:14 AM

I’ve only been here three. Grew up in conservative Walworth County, WI.

MadisonConservative on May 18, 2009 at 11:19 AM

I think all of this can be resolved by waterboarding the dog who obviously thought it would be hilarious to provide the cops with false intelligence.

Zetterson on May 18, 2009 at 11:01 AM

Now I have coffee all over my screen…

ladyingray on May 18, 2009 at 11:19 AM

MadisonConservative on May 18, 2009 at 11:15 AM

There is no indication in those videos that the officers were not following procedures. The fact that the situation lasted an hour before it came to that point indicates someone was obstructing the process. An idiot looking for trouble found trouble. Lets not invent anything else out of the situation. They were border agents, the checkpoint was to intercept illegal aliens. I wasn’t aware that you are to the left of mccain on the illegal alien issue.

peacenprosperity on May 18, 2009 at 11:19 AM

…human smugglers on or near the southern border of the United States have a particular profile. What is that profile? Did this man fit that profile?

Zetterson on May 18, 2009 at 11:12 AM

No, he’s Baptist, not Catholic.

James on May 18, 2009 at 11:20 AM

At any given time there are at least 2 to 3 border checkpoints between San Diego and Phoenix/Tucson when traveling on the I-8 to the I-10 junction

selias on May 18, 2009 at 11:09 AM

They’re also N of San Diego on the I-5 and I-15. Such checkpoints also have weigh stations for semitrucks. (Driving one of those things is one of the few jobs I’ve never had, so I wouldn’t know how this works.)

apostic on May 18, 2009 at 11:20 AM

Jetboy is just happy that a Baptist got beaten up. If it had been a gay guy, he’d be in full rainbow renegade mode and hold this up as proof that gays are ‘discriminated against’.

It’s too bad he was a straight white Christian. If it didn’t say he was Baptist, Jetboy would be on his side.

ThackerAgency on May 18, 2009 at 11:15 AM

Why would you go there ThackerAgency? Would it be fair for me to say that just because the guy’s a straight white Christian you automatically come to his defense? I didn’t think so.

Zetterson on May 18, 2009 at 11:21 AM

The Border Patrol invested a lot of time and resources to deal with this man, and may well have to spend more to deal with a law suit. What criminal activity did the Border Patrol prevent or deter for its investment? What did we as Americans gain from their behavior?

Loxodonta on May 18, 2009 at 11:22 AM

The guy is being antagonistic. If you want to avoid a situation like this, it should be ‘yes, sir’, ‘no, sir’, ‘what ever you say, sir’.

The standoff lasted an hour? If he was cooperative, he probably would have been sent on his way in under 15 minutes.

You have to remember – the officers are in danger of and anxious about getting shot at during every stop. If someone was being uncooperative, I would taze his stupid ass, too.

Be cooperative, get out of the situation, and THEN press charges if you felt your rights were being violated.

Timothy S. Carlson on May 18, 2009 at 11:22 AM

The last time I drove from the border to LA, the BP is at the crossing and quite a few miles farther north there is another BP checkpoint but I’ve been never stopped by the second one.

Blake on May 18, 2009 at 11:17 AM

Oy vey…you mean that if he wasn’t arrested here he would’ve had to go through all this twice?

James on May 18, 2009 at 11:22 AM

If you’re concerned about our problems on the US/Mexico border with murder, kidnapping, illegal immigration and drug trafficking, it’s kinda hard to get too worked up about this.

flipflop on May 18, 2009 at 11:18 AM

This is the problem, we can’t discriminate or profile. They should have more important things to do than harrass this straight white Christian AMERICAN male. They don’t. . . this is why there is a problem. They should be focusing on the important things instead of this guy.

But that would put them in danger. This guy didn’t pose a danger so they got tough with him.

ThackerAgency on May 18, 2009 at 11:23 AM

There is no indication in those videos that the officers were not following procedures.
peacenprosperity on May 18, 2009 at 11:19 AM

If the procedures include arresting people for not obeying said officers, then I think we need to rethink the standard procedures.

Upstater85 on May 18, 2009 at 11:24 AM

Why are so many of you siding with the police? This is the problem here. You no longer need warrants. Based upon these actions and so many of the users’ comments, police can do WHATEVER they want.

Vincenzo on May 18, 2009 at 11:24 AM

What did we as Americans gain from their behavior?

Loxodonta on May 18, 2009 at 11:22 AM

Ah, that is the question.

Upstater85 on May 18, 2009 at 11:24 AM

ThackerAgency on May 18, 2009 at 11:15 AM

Doubtful

blatantblue on May 18, 2009 at 11:24 AM

They were border agents, the checkpoint was to intercept illegal aliens. I wasn’t aware that you are to the left of mccain on the illegal alien issue.

peacenprosperity on May 18, 2009 at 11:19 AM

Yes, because indignance that they possibly lied about the dog’s reaction in order to search the car of a baptist preacher, who is obviously not Mexican, and advocating the use of profiling to carry out their jobs certainly puts me to the left of McCain on the border issue. So does my support for the expedited construction of the fence, my support of the minutemen, and my support of looking the other way when border jumpers get shot in accordance with castle doctrine.

Try again, pal. This isn’t a border issue, especially since it was more than just border agents involved.

MadisonConservative on May 18, 2009 at 11:24 AM

This reminds me of that moron who was stopped by a cop in a parking lot late at night that wanted to debate the legalities of the stop, all to get it on tape, of course.
Thousands of people go through these BP checkpoints every day without a problem. Why is this idiot going out of his way to cause a problem? Some sort of anti-illegal immigrant enforcement activist?
The stupidity of the self-righteous never ceases to be amazing.

n0doz on May 18, 2009 at 11:24 AM

Why are so many of you siding with the police? This is the problem here. You no longer need warrants. Based upon these actions and so many of the users’ comments, police can do WHATEVER they want.

Vincenzo on May 18, 2009 at 11:24 AM

Didn’t you remember. They are apparently on our side. The DHS is a great idea – Janet’s just a bad apple.

Upstater85 on May 18, 2009 at 11:25 AM

Now I have coffee all over my screen…

ladyingray on May 18, 2009 at 11:19 AM

Sorry about that ladyingray. I’ll clean that up for you later. I promise. But I still standby my comment. The dog’s corrupt. No question about it.

Zetterson on May 18, 2009 at 11:25 AM

All I know is that the province of a “lawful order” seems to have expanded greatly in the last 20yrs or so. It has also seemed to have evolved into something law enforcement has used at will for primarily their own convenience.

You seem not to have been around in the 60′s and 70′s. Law enforcement is far more “chill” now than then.

zeebeach on May 18, 2009 at 11:26 AM

Everybody knows those dogs are trained to “alert” whenever their handlers indicate that they should, right? I mean, nobody’s naive enough to believe that something as important as STOPINGTEHDRUZOMG!!!!! is left up to the judgment of a dog, right?

CTD on May 18, 2009 at 11:26 AM

The Border Patrol invested a lot of time and resources to deal with this man, and may well have to spend more to deal with a law suit. What criminal activity did the Border Patrol prevent or deter for its investment? What did we as Americans gain from their behavior?

Loxodonta on May 18, 2009 at 11:22 AM

Hey man, that Baptist preacher was getting lippy about his rights! STRIKE FIRST, STRIKE HARD, NO MERCY, SIR!

MadisonConservative on May 18, 2009 at 11:26 AM

You have to remember – the officers are in danger of and anxious about getting shot at during every stop. If someone was being uncooperative, I would taze his stupid ass, too.

Be cooperative, get out of the situation, and THEN press charges if you felt your rights were being violated.

Timothy S. Carlson on May 18, 2009 at 11:22 AM

Get this through your head people. THIS MAN WAS NOT STOPPED. He was caught in a road block. A fishing net that catchs everything in its path. They had no probable cause to stop him. He comitted no offense. No moving violation. No erratic driving. No broken tail light. No expired plate. He was detained along with everybody caught in that net. The man decided to stand up for his constitutional rights and take the beating that comes with it. If it wasn’t for people like him it wouldn’t be long before these officers were doing things to you, without cause, that you would not agree with. In stead of asking why he didn’t simply go like a lamb to slaughter, you shoud be thanking him for taking a beating for all of us.

TheBigOldDog on May 18, 2009 at 11:27 AM

Sorry about that ladyingray. I’ll clean that up for you later. I promise. But I still standby my comment. The dog’s corrupt. No question about it.

Zetterson on May 18, 2009 at 11:25 AM

Maybe the dog went to the Obama drug “training” school and he’s not corrupt as much as he’s, um, well…desensitized…

ladyingray on May 18, 2009 at 11:28 AM

Didn’t you remember. They are apparently on our side. The DHS is a great idea – Janet’s just a bad apple.

Upstater85 on May 18, 2009 at 11:25 AM

There are lots of good reason for law enforcement, but we should all be standing up for the rights of the individual.

I really wish someone would have to show a signed warrant to go into a car when they haven’t broken the law. This guy wasn’t speeding, he wasn’t hurting anyone, he just drove up to a “check point.”

What the f**** is this, Societ Russia?

Vincenzo on May 18, 2009 at 11:28 AM

Jetboy is just happy that a Baptist got beaten up. If it had been a gay guy, he’d be in full rainbow renegade mode and hold this up as proof that gays are ‘discriminated against’.

It’s too bad he was a straight white Christian. If it didn’t say he was Baptist, Jetboy would be on his side.

ThackerAgency on May 18, 2009 at 11:15 AM

Are you a real moron, or do you just play one on HotAir?

JetBoy on May 18, 2009 at 11:28 AM

I’m with the pastor on this one.

I’ve been through these BP checkpoints many times over the years, and they are invariably (1) useless, (2) a nuisance and (3) a waste of resources. Under this and the previous, useless administration, these have become the default border in Arizona. If the gov’t was defending the border properly these checkpoints would not be needed.

But that’s all beside the point.

The LE guys were “sensitized,” looking for trouble in the middle of a long and boring shift. They found some doofus to take it out on. He’ll have to rely on his lawyer to tell him what his rights were. They had no real reason to send him to secondary or to harbor any reasonable suspicion.

He should have driven over to secondary and been done with it. They really don’t even need a reason to send him over there; they can do it at random if they want.

But once it’s on with these guys they turn lawless real quick. One of my friends was HQ chief in Yuma before he got promoted and sent to D.C. Another was the #2 man in the Tucson sector. I know for a fact that (1) there are “hard ons” in the BP looking for trouble, (2) that probable cause is easy to engineer when there isn’t any and (3) LEOs aren’t above planting evidence when they need it to cover their own *sses.

Now that it’s gone this far the question becomes whether it is legally justifiable for the fuzz to beat the crap out of some poor schmuck who did nothing other than ask some questions the cops didn’t like?

The fact that he’s white, male, conservative and christian? The media will ignore the whole thing.

microfiction on May 18, 2009 at 11:29 AM

The Border Patrol invested a lot of time and resources to deal with this man, and may well have to spend more to deal with a law suit. What criminal activity did the Border Patrol prevent or deter for its investment? What did we as Americans gain from their behavior?

Loxodonta on May 18, 2009 at 11:22 AM

Hopefully he helped prevent it from happening so easily the next time somebody doesn’t want to voluntarily give up their constitutional rights for expediency of the moment.

TheBigOldDog on May 18, 2009 at 11:29 AM

Thank God for people like him willing to take a beating for standing up for his constitutional rights.

Which right was being violated? Please inform our ignorance.

If it wasn’t for guys like him I hate to thing what kind of police state we’d be living in. TheBigOldDog on May 18, 2009 at 11:04 AM

Yeah, we need a memorial for guys who refuse to cooperate with police during traffic stops.

Update: I meant to mention — this didn’t happen on the border. Anderson was driving east from San Diego to Phoenix. What was the BP doing there? Allahpundit

There are border stops several miles from the border because not all transgressing aliens drive through the checkpoints at the border. They drive in through the desert then hit a road a few miles later, between the border and the checkpoint.

Akzed on May 18, 2009 at 11:30 AM

I really wish someone would have to show a signed warrant to go into a car when they haven’t broken the law. This guy wasn’t speeding, he wasn’t hurting anyone, he just drove up to a “check point.”

What the f**** is this, Societ Russia?

Vincenzo on May 18, 2009 at 11:28 AM

But Teh Drugs! He was clearly a drug mule.

I think this is like a mix of Soviet Russia and FDR’s America.

Upstater85 on May 18, 2009 at 11:30 AM

Cooperate, comply, and file a complain later. Those guys have a hard enough time trying to find contraband without some pastor from the sacred order of assholiness messing with them.

Wyznowski on May 18, 2009 at 11:30 AM

I the hundreds of times I’ve been stopped at border checkpoints, never have I had the pleasure of being questioned any further than “Are you a U.S. citizen?” or “Where are you traveling from?” with an occasional ID check.

I wouldn’t say I have typical Hispanic features since my ancestors hail mostly from Spain, so I probably blend more with a group of white people, and it also helps that my wife is your All-American blond beauty. But even having a Hispanic name and looking the part depending on who you ask, I’ve never had issues at checkpoints.

However, I have even been angered and/or perplexed too frequent and on many occasions to see the BP agents waving on every car that passes…even the shady-looking unmarked pervert/coyote vans with dark tint windows, or the standard 4 seat jalopy with 12 Mexicans shoved in with Mexican license plates…yet my wife and I will be asked to roll down our windows driving our Ford truck or Infiniti, and questioned.

selias on May 18, 2009 at 11:30 AM

No, just usually unnecessary. I spent 14 years of my life in Madison, so I know where you’re coming from. Don’t agree, but I understand.

zeebeach on May 18, 2009 at 11:14 AM
I’ve only been here three. Grew up in conservative Walworth County, WI.

MadisonConservative on May 18, 2009 at 11:19 AM

Yes, I was actually referring to WI, not necessarily Madison specifically (especially since you’re conservative).

zeebeach on May 18, 2009 at 11:30 AM

Well, by giving the officer lip, and lecturing him on “rights”, he sure gave the cop an excuse to detain him.

WOW. Just… wow.

It’s come to this, then? Asserting your rights and liberties as a free citizen of the US is now probable cause?

CTD on May 18, 2009 at 11:30 AM

between the border and the secondary checkpoint.

Akzed on May 18, 2009 at 11:30 AM

Akzed on May 18, 2009 at 11:31 AM

Hey man, that Baptist preacher was getting lippy about his rights! STRIKE FIRST, STRIKE HARD, NO MERCY, SIR!

MadisonConservative on May 18, 2009 at 11:26 AM

That’s not a benefit for our safety or security. And that doesn’t deter criminal behavior. It results in law abiding citizens being afraid of interacting with the police, which might actually make criminal activity easier.

Loxodonta on May 18, 2009 at 11:31 AM

If the gov’t was defending the border properly these checkpoints would not be needed.

microfiction on May 18, 2009 at 11:29 AM

All that needs to be said.

MadisonConservative on May 18, 2009 at 11:31 AM

Maybe the dog went to the Obama drug “training” school and he’s not corrupt as much as he’s, um, well…desensitized…

ladyingray on May 18, 2009 at 11:28 AM

Where is this school and where can I go?

blatantblue on May 18, 2009 at 11:31 AM

“Thousands of people go through these BP checkpoints every day without a problem. Why is this idiot going out of his way to cause a problem?”

Exactly. almost like he was trying to get something juicy for his YouTube account. He was probably acting nervous or they’d had just let him pass.

Woody on May 18, 2009 at 11:31 AM

I would love to see this on South Park. I’m sure there’s some humor here somewhere…

Upstater85 on May 18, 2009 at 11:31 AM

Are you a real moron, or do you just play one on HotAir?

JetBoy on May 18, 2009 at 11:28 AM

/sarc on

Oh cut it out, you just like seeing Christians getting beat up!

/sarc off

blatantblue on May 18, 2009 at 11:32 AM

That’s not a benefit for our safety or security. And that doesn’t deter criminal behavior. It results in law abiding citizens being afraid of interacting with the police, which might actually make criminal activity easier.

Loxodonta on May 18, 2009 at 11:31 AM

It informs dangerous right-wing extremists like you that assertion of rights is justification for detainment. Don’t you ever bring up that wretched constitution with armed government employees, or you deserve everything you get. Now BAA for me!

MadisonConservative on May 18, 2009 at 11:33 AM

It’s come to this, then? Asserting your rights and liberties as a free citizen of the US is now probable cause?

CTD on May 18, 2009 at 11:30 AM

Well, hey…let’s just disband all law enforcement agencies in the nation. We don’t need ‘em.

Please inform, where is the “right and liberty” that allows citizens to argue with a cop like this?

JetBoy on May 18, 2009 at 11:34 AM

If the gov’t was defending the border properly these checkpoints would not be needed.

microfiction on May 18, 2009 at 11:29 AM

All that needs to be said.

MadisonConservative on May 18, 2009 at 11:31 AM

Hey, Barry may use this in his campaign next week to show how he REALLY is tough on border security on certain parts of the boarder.

“You, uh, could call me, uh, authoritarian when it comes to white, male, pastors potentially, uh taking the drug mule business from uh my voters. I think, uh, we just need to keep an open mind about uh my government asserting its authority over you.”

Upstater85 on May 18, 2009 at 11:34 AM

I detect a shitty attitude in general from the pastor.

kahall on May 18, 2009 at 11:35 AM

Would anyone here expect to just be waved through the checkpoint with a “Carry on then” if they’d behaved in the same way under similar circumstances?

DarkCurrent on May 18, 2009 at 11:35 AM

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