Video: Border Patrol tasers pastor at traffic stop
posted at 10:11 am on May 18, 2009 by Allahpundit
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The first video’s a month old and a minor viral hit online, the second one — showing the incident described in the first — is brand new. Why would the BP be so impatient with a stopped driver as to get rough after just a few minutes? Well, turns out it wasn’t just a few minutes: According to Fox Phoenix, it was a “standoff” that lasted for more than an hour. As for the taser, the Phoenix New Times weighs pros and cons:
At first glance, the use of the Taser seems to violate a policy adopted by most Valley police agencies. When Tasers were first introduced, police used them against suspects who simply refused to obey orders or resisted arrest not by force, but by sitting down or pulling away from an officer’s grabbing hands. Such use was later prohibited in most agencies when police realized Tasers could potentially be harmful to some suspects.
However, the DPS could probably make the case that Anderson was a threat to officer safety because he had control of his vehicle. Once the agents and officers decided to pull him out of the car (a questionable decision, itself), they must have decided to Tase him right away to prevent the possibility of the vehicle driving off with an officer stuck in the window.
Anderson claims he was repeatedly Tasered even after being dragged from his car, but that’s not shown on his video.
I think it might depend on whether he had the keys in the ignition at the time. If so, the fear that he’d try to take off after they broke the windows is reasonable; if not, not so much.
Update: I meant to mention — this didn’t happen on the border. Anderson was driving east from San Diego to Phoenix. What was the BP doing there?
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I totally disagree that the drug dog search was legal. You have to have probably cause to call the drug dog out. Does not answering questions or refusing to be searched give BP probable cause to call the dog? (If he rolled down the window and a cloud of pot smoke came out that’s a different story.)
By your standard, it’s not an immigration check point–it’s a drug check point. It was BP’s K9 that “alerted” on his car, so then why did BP not arrest him? Why did BP have to call in DPS?
So you’re automaically saying the dog was right, the pastor had just removed the drugs or illegals prior to the search? Where does that come into evidence? Your past experience is not in evidence here, sorry nice try.
Using your logic, we know LE has been convicted of planting evidence–so then one has to assume the first fact is the K9 agent caused the dog to alert. I previously stated that was one of several option, which I put at the bottom of the option list.
Side note: Thank you for the LE job that you do.
The bottom line is that, we don’t know because we haven’t seen the full tape. Lets assume that as LE you look to defuse the situation. BP calls you in and the guy sitting in the car is a d*ck but not violent. He’s going on and on that the dog didn’t alert, it would seem to be a reasonable request to diffuse the situation. Or maybe LE training tells him every story really has 3 sides, the only side you know for sure is what you see for yourself.
I agree that the checkpoints internal to the US should debated to determine if they are legal. If all it takes is for a dog to alert to a car then every car is subject to search. Why stop at the checkpoints? Lets just have drug dogs walking by cars suck in traffic on city streets.
As I’ve already stated they had to have probable cause. A court will decide if they did and if BP/DPS used excessive force.
SFTech on May 19, 2009 at 6:27 AM
a few short steps away from “I felt bad about the guy…” being the standard for PC
sven10077 on May 19, 2009 at 7:17 AM
Since when? Sorry, but an open air search with a K9 is perfectly legal. It is handled the same way as a plain view search.
I have no idea. I live far enough from the border that the only border patrol I have ever met are recruiters. Had I been in their position I wouldnt have bothered calling in another agency, but I dont work for border patrol. I really dont know what their rules are for this sitation.
No, what I am saying is that it is possible to develop probable cause and not find anything. That is why it is probable cause and not beyond a reasonable doubt.
Exactly. That is my entire point. Did he resist? We dont know because his own camera dosent show it and the security footage is blocked by the car (poor camera placement, in my opinion). I do know that, when being arrested, people can get hurt in ways other than being beaten by the police. He either got those injuries by 1. Resisting 2. Not resisting and being beaten or 3. By accident (was dropped being pulled out of the car, raked his head into the broken glass while being tased, etc.) We just dont have enough information to say either way.
And as far as DPS requesting the dog? He probably was hoping it would help defuse the situation. But when you Mr Pissed off Preacher demanding the dog on one side and Pissed Off BP on the other saying “no, we arent doing it” it is understandable why DPS would just say “screw it, we’re arresting him.”
SnakeintheGrass on May 19, 2009 at 7:59 AM
He also dosent seem the type to resist arrest and square off with border patrol for an hour and yet here we are.
And I am not going to condem the actions of the officers involved with the scant evidence provided. I havent seen enough to determine whether they were right or wrong so I will reserve my judgement.
SnakeintheGrass on May 19, 2009 at 8:03 AM
This isn’t very difficult. You can of course choose to disagree with me or not.
Scripture says we should not kill and we should defend the helpless. Scripture also says that we should respect leaders that God himself has put in place.
I agree this is difficult. Scripture doesn’t say that we should always follow our leaders. If they go against God’s commands we should not follow. A good example would be Daniel. He continued to pray to the one true God and did not bow down and worship the false gods that he was commanded to worhip by the king.
shick on May 19, 2009 at 8:04 AM
Well, this is not my problem. Your moral equivalence is the problem and I said nothing like your statement above. Here, you are saying gangbangers are equivalent to LE. Did you annoy the gangbangers for 90 minutes and live to tell about it? Did government give gangbangers authority to detain you? Unlikely.
They did restrain themselves — for an hour and a half. I think they waited too long to take control and their tempers got frayed. There is a hazard in being too patient. That said, I won’t support any action against them because he asked for it. You defend and your brats claim the right to harass and provoke as if police aren’t human beings too. This is total cop-hating behavior and bias. Further, it’s the looting of the system by people who should’ve learned their lessons at age 2.
If you want liberty, then grow up and act worthy of it. Brats will get treated like brats sooner or later, and it won’t matter what legal papers say. LEs who know the rules may disagree and I won’t argue with them. I’m speaking as a citizen who is fed-up with this crap.
You won’t acknowledge authority, human nature, or give benefit-of-the-doubt to people charged with policing us for our protection. Out in the field, that’s a dangerous game and if you goad them into playing it, you have yourself to blame.
Feedie on May 19, 2009 at 1:20 PM
As my last post on the subject,
if BP had a legal right to arrest this guy–THEY WOULD HAVE DONE IT.
the fact not in dispute is that BP called DPS to make the arrest–DPS states that DPS is arresting him for failing to obey DPS’s order.
the question is:
1. was the stop legal- very likely
2. was his detainment legal- according to the immigration statute that I posted on page 7, probably not. It states BP can ask questions like anyone else, but not detain, and the suspect can “walk away”.
I don’t think I need to go on from here because everything else, is actions of an illegal detainment thus VOID.
Thank you to all of the BP agents and LE who get up every day and make the US safer. To the ones that break the law and intimidate law abiding citizens, I hope you get reap all that you sow.
Peace.
SFTech on May 19, 2009 at 4:04 PM
Good debate. I enjoyed it too.
You too, Conservative Voice. ;-)
Feedie on May 19, 2009 at 4:34 PM
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