David Frum is wrong
posted at 9:08 pm on May 18, 2009 by Slublog
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Earlier, Allahpundit posted this link to David Frum’s latest post. In it, he says the following:
There was a lot of wild political hate expressed during the Bush years. I was there, I remember. But short of the crazy 9/11 denialists, no prominent liberal figure – certainly nobody as central to the left as Limbaugh is central to the right – ever accused either President Bush or Vice President Cheney of wishing to do harm to America. To have accused them of such a thing would have been to accuse them of treason.
His evidence for this claim is two quotes by Rush Limbaugh. One saying Obama’s instincts on terrorists are wrong; the other saying that Obama is, with his policies, hurting America. There is no statement that seems strong enough to justify Frum’s assertion. Limbaugh seems to be using the same tone parents often take with their children when they’re engaged in self-destructive activities – ‘Do you want that shelf to fall on your head? Keep pulling it.’ His statement seems more hypothetical than anything else. If anything, Frum’s willingness to attribute Rush’s statement to ODS is evidence of his own crusade to caricature Limbaugh as a political Snidely Whiplash tying up the GOP’s future and placing it on the train tracks.
However, what’s most ridiculous about Frum’s statement is his belief that “no prominent liberal figure” ever accused the Bush administration of wanting to harm America. To that statement, I offer the following rebuttal, in quote form:
To begin with, from its earliest days in power, this administration sought to radically destroy the foreign policy consensus that had guided America since the end of World War II.
Wow. What sort of fringe nutjob would accuse the Bush administration of actively seeking to destroy our foreign policy consensus?
Um, former Vice President Al Gore, on May 26, 2004.
Exhibit B:
In the end, for this administration, it is all about power. This lie about the invented connection between al Qaeda and Iraq was and is the key to justifying the current ongoing Constitutional power grab by the President. So long as their big flamboyant lie remains an established fact in the public’s mind, President Bush will be seen as justified in taking for himself the power to make war on his whim. He will be seen as justified in acting to selectively suspend civil liberties – again on his personal discretion – and he will continue to intimidate the press and thereby distort the political reality experienced by the American people during his bid for re-election.
Surely this was written by an anonymous lefty blogger. No respectable, “prominent” liberal would accuse the president of knowingly using a terrorist attack and deception to justify a power grab that trashes the constitution!
Think again. That was Al Gore, June 24, 2004.
Those quotes were the result of five minutes with Google. Given more time, I’m sure I could find more. So David Frum is either a tech-newbie, or he’s immune to evidence that contradicts his hyperbole.
This post was promoted from GreenRoom to HotAir.com.
To see the comments on the original post, look here.
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This debate suits only the Democrats, which is why it was started by Barack Obama. My advice to Mr Frum is, give it a rest.
The GOP is in the opposition and they should do a better job of opposing what every fairminded observer agrees is a radical agenda. If they did that, Limbaugh wouldn´t have to act as the voice and face of the conservative movement. What´s stopping the GOP? It is crazy to blame Limbaugh for filling the vacuum. There is a lot of talk about inclusiveness, but surely it counts as a political failure not be be able to include your committed base in your big tent?
Democrats have been able to do that and Al Gore or Howard Dean or David Axelrod have been extremely abrasive without anyone questioning the wisdom of having them – not by implication but quite officially! – as faces of the Democrat party. And it didn´t hurt them.
Here is a more interesting question. Is Nancy Pelosi the face of liberalism? Oh, good heavens´s – she really is! So what are you going to do?
el gordo on May 19, 2009 at 5:41 AM
Guys, the “This post was promoted from..” footer appears condescending. If it must stay, rephrase it without the “promoted” part.
hailsriram on May 19, 2009 at 7:26 AM
I think your argument is dishonest. There’s a huge difference between quoting Gore’s one-off speeches and Limbaugh’s three-hours a day on national media.
This is a typical ploy of Fox/RushCo fans: When criticized they make like they’re nothing but a tiny, insignificant outpost in a vast desert of left-wing media – except on those days when they’re feeling chipper and Drudge posts breathless ratings stats meant to imply 97% percent of the population are stampeding to the right. Can’t have it both ways.
sanguine4 on May 19, 2009 at 7:29 AM
Can we now put a fork in Frum and declare him done? The guy is a nutter.
Blake on May 19, 2009 at 7:48 AM
destroying a consensus means that there’s no consensus. constitutional power grab means expanding the power of the executive. neither is close to treason. are you guys really that dim?
sesquipedalian on May 19, 2009 at 7:48 AM
Frum is just like the rest of the wizzards of smart.He just wants to be loved by the drive by MSN and have good things said about him in the NY Times & Washington post.Just like this past weekend at the S.C. Rep state meeting.Little Linsey Graham was booed many times but when he said we must have a party that can get people elected in the north east you know more Rinos he was realy Booed. He got very angry and said this was his party and if you don,t like it there the exit door.What a jerk he is.I told him he worked for us the people and was a disgrace to the consev. movement.His face got real red and he just turned and walked away.
thmcbb on May 19, 2009 at 7:50 AM
Mrs. Ida Lowry
maverick muse on May 19, 2009 at 7:51 AM
Frum IS the face of the modern GOP…he just reflects what the party elites want. they’re democrat-lite…socialist wanna-bes..let them go the way of the whigs…
right4life on May 19, 2009 at 7:55 AM
Well, beyond trying to mention the UN as a distracting element, it is a form of non-binding contract organization made up by its member Nations by treaty. As such it has no higher power than accountability between those Nations for what they agree to via such non-binding contracts. Sovereignty includes the ability to limit such non-binding contracts or even leave them at will: while it takes both a President and Senate to sign up to a treaty, a President has final say over it and either can end it. That is the sovereign powers we vest in that set-up so that we are not party to treaties that abuse our sovereignty and freedom to act independently as a Nation.
Thusly, the US or any Nation is free to do as it pleases with the UN. Sign up and support it. Sign up and not support it. Sign up and abuse it. Sign up and not care about it. Or not sign up at all. There are as many options and choices as there are Nations, that is clear by the Law of Nations.
It is interesting that the Progressive Teddy Roosevelt played around with the idea of a ‘League of Peace’, but ultimately disavowed the idea as it is unworkable in international affairs. The idea, however, would start the era of Wilsonianism and Transnational Progressivism and seek to erode sovereign governments representing their people’s intersts (no matter how well or poorly they did so) with one of a communal ruling structure of elite bureaucrats. It is interesting to read Chapter XV of Roosevelt’s autobiography to see him recount this, and why treaty organizations are not of necessity a good thing and may even harm National interests. He was disabused of the notion that a universal treaty organization was possible and would even campaign against the very League of Peace idea he had proposed.
Thusly I do not support the treaty vehicle that creates the UN as it does not reflect the values of liberty and freedom of this Nation and often works at direct opposition to those values. I would support a review of the treaty and amending or withdrawing from it until such values are supported. If we are to be just one Nation amongst all Nations then all members need pay an exactly equal share, otherwise you seek to put a skewed economic basis to the mechanism which warps its viewpoint. Further I see no reason to give dictators, tyrants and despots a global forum on which to expound their ill-formed visions and repressive attitudes as they are ultimately uncivilizing in their basis and devalue human liberty and freedom.
I do have problems with other treaties and organizations. That is not down out of malice: I have no ‘hate’ of the UN or G-20. It is done out of our common and shared values of liberty and freedom, and men instituting sovereign governments in which to enjoy the fruits of their labor and have active intercourse with other Nations as they will. That means I do not believe in free trade as a sovereign good, as even Adam Smith recognized that the Law of Nations makes the Wealth of Nations possible and that the latter most wholly conform to former and not the other way around. Thus free trade should only be with friends and allies who support our common values of liberty and freedom so that we can be stronger, together, in those shared values than we are separately. Institutions that I see as misguided or that debase those values I speak against as that is my duty as a citizen of a Nation that upholds them.
That means I come to harsh breaks with both liberals and conservatives, because I stand beside the common ideals that empower us as individuals and keeps Nations on the short leash to those who have liberty and freedom. This basis I find in our common and shared history, culture and the reasoning put forth for them I find eminently sound.
I can personally find a politician ‘likeable’ but detest his or her policies. Mostly I find politicians to be the bottom feeders in the great river of liberty, but they are a necessary part of that eco system if you can ensure there are enough of them to keep each other small. Thus I support a much wider and, indeed, the widest possible representative democracy so that the multitude of voices can be heard in their richness in DC, and that will stopper up steamrollering any bad laws through just through multiplicity of views and the hard ability to make ‘voting blocks’. In the UN there is absolute inequality because it is a tertiary representative organization and does not have necessary safeguards to choose accountable bureaucrats. And while I value liberty and freedom, I note that some very populous Nations are very illiberal and offer little freedom to their peoples… and really wish those peoples would come to their senses and do something about it.
Unlike a Nation of free men, the world has distinct organizational differences that are due to culture that is reflected in their Nations. That is ‘multi-culturalism’ at its highest form, we need no laws to enforce it as it is how we form Nations and separate ourselves into agreeable sub-groups. Within a free Nation we must come to common accord and divisiveness needs to be put aside for the common good. That cannot be achieved on an international scale due to the way we see ourselves and how we create forms of government.
That is a scale-free view of the world, allowing different organizational levels to have their own basis, but then examining each with the same viewpoint. From hand-shake agreements to international treaties, the view is the same.
That is reasoned opposition to a treaty using a described basis and then demonstrating how that basis then gives a view to goals and aims. You don’t set policy based on ‘good feelings’ or ‘what should be’, but on the principles you endorse and stand behind. I disagreed with the previous President on a host of issues, but I keep my stances civil. I did the same with Clinton. H.W. Bush. Reagan. Even reviewing past office holders, I keep that stance of civility. And I continue to do it with this current occupant. I must separate my personal feelings for the individual and examine their policies separately so I can find the good for my Nation or see where I think such an office holder has erred and say so. If I like Teddy Roosevelt the man, and detest his policies but recognize his later wisdom, where would that put me with modern Liberals… or even Conservatives for that matter? And I will grant TR that absolute courage to write his autobiography unstintingly to offer us insights he held when he held them and why he changed his views… that is very rare in US politics. Mind you, I still detest many of his policies…
I do wish that modern critics could do the same and stop the yelling and attempting to manipulate my emotions. It doesn’t work and makes you look authoritarian by nature to reach for such base emotions and not for higher reason. That makes those critics look no good at all, being supporters of unreasoned irrationality to gain a way that is not backed by our shared history and how we make the structures of governance around us. That comes to no good end at all. Ever.
ajacksonian on May 19, 2009 at 8:05 AM
If Moderation is the key to regaining control of our government, and that’s what most of America wanted, John McCain would be president, not the Socialist Democrat we have. Moderation is just some relative term to gloss over Liberalism. The conservative ideals of our founders are the only guides we need, and Frum can hit the road with the rest of the GOP “Moderates”. The GOP is toast.
davecatbone on May 19, 2009 at 8:11 AM
People still read the Egregious Frum. Why exactly is that? Oh sure, if you’re sitting on the toilet and run out of toilet paper, Frum’s keyboard droolings provide a suitable replacement, but that’s about it.
Physics Geek on May 19, 2009 at 8:53 AM
I used to like Frum back when he made backed up and pursuasive arguments. I even still tolerated him when he limp on Conservatism. This however proves that he’s lost it and desperately needs a brainscan. He’s not even trying anymore and as a former memeber of the administration how could he be so oblivious to the many attacks I remember lobbed at his former boss? He is just wrong on this, what the hell happened to him I do not know.
“He Be-twayed dis Coun-tray! Heeeeeee plaaaayed on all urrr Fears!”
- Al Gore on Bush, 2002
Daemonocracy on May 19, 2009 at 9:39 AM
If it wasn’t for this blog giving him publicity, this David Frum fool would disappear from view.
notagool on May 19, 2009 at 9:49 AM
David Frum has Rush Derangement Syndrome.
Buy Danish on May 19, 2009 at 10:04 AM
Anyone remember the “General BETRAY-US” ad on in the NYTimes?
The perfect example of the keen moderation of the Left.
Techie on May 19, 2009 at 10:15 AM
Frum is getting bennies from somewhere. Give it time, follow the money, and we’ll see what his angle is.
spmat on May 19, 2009 at 10:57 AM
Frum’s claim is nuts.
Surely someone here has the time to post the links to each and every prominent Democrat accusing Bush of lying about intelligence on Iraq or manipulating it.
Basilsbest on May 19, 2009 at 11:39 AM
Basilsbest on May 19, 2009 at 11:39 AM
I already posted this it is Al Gore criticizing President George H W Bush #41 for ignoring Saddam Hussien’s terror ties. “1992″ Al Gore has been criticizing the two Bush Presidents for decades either for NOT addressing Saddam’s terror ties or for addressing Saddam’s terror ties. For some reason the Mainstream Media has this real short memory even when there is video to “Show” him doing what Frum claims he doesn’t. The MSM lets Al Gore get away with this, and then people like Frum for some reason- I am guessing NO critical thinking on his part, believes the perception the MSM sells.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JE48XHKG64
Dr Evil on May 19, 2009 at 11:47 AM
Are you really that intellectually dishonest?
Jim Treacher on May 19, 2009 at 11:47 AM
Democrats, are guilty. Guilty of all they ever accuse a republican of. It’s getting really old. They know their party is in trouble as well. The corruption is active, and other corruptions are now seeing the light of day. What better way to detract from that, then incessantly pointing an accusing finger at others, for the same things, one is guilty of. It seems to be the standard.
capejasmine on May 19, 2009 at 12:03 PM
No one had a problem with Frum when he wrote the Axis of Evil Speech nor when he wrote a very favorable biography of President Bush.
Why do some people think to be a real Republican or Real Conservative that you have to agree 100% on everything. Like Dennis Prager says the only way you will find a candidate you agree with 100% is to run yourself.
Keep supporting people like Mitt and you had better get used to the libs and dems running things for a while.
Just because Steele, Powell, and Frum don’t agree with Rush and Sean, doesn’t mean we all have to be kool aid drinkers.
arizonateacher on May 19, 2009 at 12:38 PM
Another possibility is that frum is a scumbag liberal. Not that being a scumbag automatically makes someone a liberal or vice versa. Being a liberal automatically identifies someone as emotionally dysfunctional and being a scumbag identifies someone as not worthy of respect.
peacenprosperity on May 19, 2009 at 12:51 PM
You’re funny!
peacenprosperity on May 19, 2009 at 12:52 PM
I don’t care what David Frum has to say. I just have to comment here because my alias is used in the original post.
Snidely Whiplash on May 19, 2009 at 1:19 PM
Dr Evil on May 19, 2009 at 11:47 AM
Dr. Evil
I’ve seen the video in question. It wasn’t just Gore who warned about the threat posed by Saddam. It was all of them, including Kennedy.
I’m talking about the claims over the last 6 years that Bush lied about intelligence, manufactured it and turned a blind eye to anything that pointed the other way.
And my recollection is that each and every prominent Democrat, with the exception of Lieberman, has made these serious allegations against Bush.
Frum has either been asleep, is a liar or has lost his mind.
Basilsbest on May 19, 2009 at 1:27 PM
i didn’t mean to make you cry. just pointed out that the “rebuttal” makes no sense.
sesquipedalian on May 19, 2009 at 1:35 PM
“Why do some people think to be a real Republican or Real Conservative that you have to agree 100% on everything. ”
It is one thing to not agree 100% with someone. It is quite another to construct your career by being a Republican attack dog against other Republicans. Frum is one of those of those Republicans who only gets noticed by the mainstream by ripping apart people in his own party. It is self-serving and false.
Right now the real danger to this country is a President in the process of ruining our economy and our industry, and Frum virtually ignores this to endear himself with the mainstream media by attacking conservative talkshow hosts.
Mr A on May 19, 2009 at 2:55 PM
Frum is simply an opportunist who percieves the winds blowing left these days. He’ll probably profess to be a conservative again sometime in the near future when the winds shift again.
Frum has made a pretty pathetic spectacle of himself. I don’t pay attention to him anymore.
chalons on May 19, 2009 at 4:00 PM
He is a non-entity, garnering what little notoriety he has by attacking other Republicans and getting played up in places like HotAir. Go to his own ill-advised blog — which is the intended beneficiary of his delirious ranting — and you’ll find his two stupid Quit Whining posts with 18 and 17 comments, respectively.
Yawn.
If this is supposed to be The New Conservative Movement, or even an “Outrageous Outrage!”, then he’s a total bozo. Mostly, he’s just unpersuasive.
Jaibones on July 28, 2009 at 1:14 PM
Not to argue for Frum, but remember that his key point was that this should be someone “central to the left, as Rush is the right”, and I presume he would say that MoveOn.putz is just a bunch of Soros-funded losers in Mom’s basement and not “central” to anything but the most recent EarthFirst attack on the animal research lab at Wash U.
Jaibones on July 28, 2009 at 1:19 PM
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