GQ: Secret 2003 Iraq intel reports began with Bible quotes
posted at 2:30 pm on May 17, 2009 by Allahpundit
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That’s just the sexiest detail in a devastating profile of Rumsfeld assembled by Robert Draper, but since it fits the left’s narrative that the Iraq war must have been conceived with an ulterior motive — war for oil, war for Israel, war because Bush heard God’s voice in his head — it’s the detail the media will focus on. You can view a slideshow of the reports here. Proof that Don Rumsfeld was actually a closet crusader? No, more like proof that Rumsfeld tried to speak Bush’s language in the early days of the war to give him strength as the first casualties were taken.
These cover sheets were the brainchild of Major General Glen Shaffer, a director for intelligence serving both the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the secretary of defense. In the days before the Iraq war, Shaffer’s staff had created humorous covers in an attempt to alleviate the stress of preparing for battle. Then, as the body counting began, Shaffer, a Christian, deemed the biblical passages more suitable. Several others in the Pentagon disagreed. At least one Muslim analyst in the building had been greatly offended; others privately worried that if these covers were leaked during a war conducted in an Islamic nation, the fallout—as one Pentagon staffer would later say—“would be as bad as Abu Ghraib.”
But the Pentagon’s top officials were apparently unconcerned about the effect such a disclosure might have on the conduct of the war or on Bush’s public standing. When colleagues complained to Shaffer that including a religious message with an intelligence briefing seemed inappropriate, Shaffer politely informed them that the practice would continue, because “my seniors”—JCS chairman Richard Myers, Rumsfeld, and the commander in chief himself—appreciated the cover pages…
The Scripture-adorned cover sheets illustrate one specific complaint I heard again and again: that Rumsfeld’s tactics—such as playing a religious angle with the president—often ran counter to sound decision-making and could, occasionally, compromise the administration’s best interests. In the case of the sheets, publicly flaunting his own religious views was not at all the SecDef’s style—“Rumsfeld was old-fashioned that way,” Shaffer acknowledged when I contacted him about the briefings—but it was decidedly Bush’s style, and Rumsfeld likely saw the Scriptures as a way of making a personal connection with a president who frequently quoted the Bible. No matter that, if leaked, the images would reinforce impressions that the administration was embarking on a religious war and could escalate tensions with the Muslim world. The sheets were not Rumsfeld’s direct invention—and he could thus distance himself from them, should that prove necessary.
Still, the sheer cunning of pairing unsentimental intelligence with religious righteousness bore the signature of one man: Donald Rumsfeld. And as historians slog through the smoke and mirrors of his tenure, they may find that Rumsfeld’s most enduring legacy will be the damage he did to Bush’s.
That’s the jumping-off point for a long, gossipy, engrossing analysis of how Rumsfeld (almost) ruined everything, from Iraq to U.S./Russia relations to even the feds’ Katrina response. So damning is it that it’s almost self-discrediting: He simply couldn’t have been that bad for that long and stayed on the job, Bush’s famous reputation for loyalty notwithstanding, so we’re left to puzzle out how much of the dish is simple scapegoating by other anonymous Bush officials eager to push blame onto the media’s favorite whipping boy. Draper’s not some nutroots hack, though, having written a book about Bush’s administration for which Dubya himself agreed to be interviewed several times. Either way, believe me when I tell you you’ll want to read the whole thing. As for the intel reports, the intent seems innocuous enough but it’s bizarre to me that they’d have gone ahead with religious messages on war documents — secret war documents no less, buttressing the “ulterior motive” meme — knowing what a PR disaster it would have been had these leaked at the time. In a way, it reminds me of Rush saying he wants Obama to fail: The motive may be noble, but surely there’s a less self-destructive way to make the point.
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Bush’s mistake in Iraq was assuming that it was simply a war to remove Saddam Hussin. He didnt realize that 9/11 and the removal of the Taliban had ignited a holy war between Islam and the west.
And the fact that ther idiot left was more worried getting power than protecting America.
William Amos on May 17, 2009 at 4:16 PM
Grow Fins:
Oh BS. Tin ear, my behind. Meanwhile Obama intends to do another apology tour.
Tell me, how does kissing up to our enemies and adversaries and crapping on our allies make Obama a good president?
The truth is this is just the usual blaming and finger pointing and hyperventilating about nothing the left always does.
If the truth is that Saddam Hussein was just a helpless little dictator we should have left alone, then the Clinton administration should have made that the policy and ended the conflict.
But nooo, they did not come up with decent intel. Tenet, was in fact a Democrat hold over from the Clinton years and all this now is an effort on the part of liberals and lefties to avoid any responsibility for their own mistakes.
Same old same old.
Meanwhile Saddam Hussein is gone and the world is a better place without him.
Terrye on May 17, 2009 at 4:18 PM
Even if this were true. I have’t read the story yet, so I couldn’t say either way. Why would it necessarily be a bad thing? It seems, based on the facts, that the war on terrorism is, indeed, a religious war in most aspects of it. We’re not seeing everyday atrocities from Hindu terrorists, we’re seeing daily horrors carried out by muslims, who are simply following the ideology of their prophet- a mass murderer who slaughtered hundreds and wrote a book urging others to do so for the god he created. Those are facts. Why are people afraid of facts?
The Bible is the most popular book ever written, and it’s considered by a billion plus people to be the most sacred book of philosophy in existence. That alone should mean it makes sense to use for strategic purposes in a myriad of fields.
I think we need to stop pussyfooting around what we all know to be true- we’re fighting whackjobs of a particular stripe, and it just happens they’re all muslim.
TheBlueSite on May 17, 2009 at 4:19 PM
I don’t see anything wrong with these covers. But then again I have been pretty bad at seeing outrage in any of the hissy fits that the left has had for years.
I say tell em to F/O Rummy
conservnut on May 17, 2009 at 4:19 PM
Talk about a tin ear, Obama has managed to inspire protests at one of the most conservative and uneventful campuses in the United States. He has managed to get more than 500,000 Americans to come out and protest his spending policy withi 4 months of his coming to office. He has managed to promise to invade and abandon Pakistan all in one fell swoop.
And here these people are making an issue of some scripture in memos. I mean really, this is a sign of not having enough to do.
Terrye on May 17, 2009 at 4:21 PM
I hate to say this but I would be more offended by “humorous covers” and it sounds like this Major General was a bit goofy or at least his staff was. And do we know whether Rumsfield said anything about them or even noticed them? From my own experience, no one pays much attention to cover sheets.
Deanna on May 17, 2009 at 4:22 PM
<
I slightly disagree–I think that Bush had to make the ROE so restrictive because of the whining of the Left that it made the surge inevitable.
The “surge” consisted not only of more troops but of putting ROE put back in place that allowed our military to actually kill people and break things to more effect.
Jenfidel on May 17, 2009 at 4:22 PM
William:
AlQaida declared war on the United States in 1997 before Saddam was ever removed from power. The mistake was that the United States just did not take them seriously.
Terrye on May 17, 2009 at 4:23 PM
Are you?
Loxondonta on May 17,2009 at 4:09PM.
Loxondonta: No,I am not. I’m a Canadian Conservative:).
Well,Lox,our discussion went well,eh!:)
canopfor on May 17, 2009 at 4:23 PM
and Paul Bremer.
Baxter Greene on May 17, 2009 at 4:23 PM
Really? What was the first WTC bombing, the African embassy bombings and the Cole? Love taps?
Rocks on May 17, 2009 at 4:24 PM
Imagine how the left would react to someone like Patton.
Terrye on May 17, 2009 at 4:24 PM
Why is this in GQ of all places?
Rocks on May 17, 2009 at 4:25 PM
History for our friends on the Left does not exist before January of 2001. As a result, the following never happened.
1. The Clinton Justice Department confirming a direct tie between bin Laden and Iraq (1998)
2. Clinton and the Democrats advocating regime change in Iraq (also 1998)
3. Clinton and the Democrats claiming Iraq had WMDs (also 1998)
Hell, a Clinton-appointed Federal Judge even ruled, in 2003, that Iraq played a part in the 9/11 attacks. But in the Left’s parallel universe, that never happened either.
And in their warped and clueless minds, al Qaeda could be in cahoots with any other country in the world, and they wouldn’t care.
But they could never have been in cahoots with Iraq. Why? “Because Saddam Hussein was secular”.
Talk about bringing religion into an argument about the Iraq War?
Del Dolemonte on May 17, 2009 at 4:26 PM
Quit it, your making me get a tingle up my leg. :-)
conservnut on May 17, 2009 at 4:27 PM
Im not suggesting that Islam wasnt fighting a war against us earlier than 9/11. Im Suggesting that Bush as well as others didnt see it as being more than just one extremist group rather than a widespread movement.
That is what caused the early failure in Iraq.
William Amos on May 17, 2009 at 4:27 PM
Giving people strength in their faith with appropriate quotes is one thing. Some of those slides show outright stupidity though.
putting the quote
“OPEN THE GATES THAT THE RIGHTEOUS MAY ENTER, THE NATION THAT KEEPS FAITH” Isaiah 26:2
With a picture of American tanks entering an Iraqi city. Strongly suggests that America thinks it has some “divine righteousness” due to the chosen religion of most of it’s people. BS and danger BS considering we are entering a Nation that keeps a different “faith”
Another stupid one was Daniel 5:5-28
“….This is the interpretation of the thing: MENE; God hath numbered thy kingdom, and finished it”
With Pictures of Saddam.
It suggests to most people that you think you are just “doing God’s will”. His Holy Warrior…..
Regardless of wether or not yousee your self as God’s warrior fighting it obvoius to anyone that that is the impression any normal person would get from these slides.
DustyGreen on May 17, 2009 at 4:30 PM
Yeah,but according to liberal genius growfins,freeing 50 million people,taking out some of the worst regimes mankind has seen,and keeping this country safe was all just about “getting lucky”.
Yeah,so lucky Obama is using the same methods and policies that Bush instituted in getting the job done.
How much of a moron does one have to be to criticize someone that their own liberal hero is copying.
Baxter Greene on May 17, 2009 at 4:31 PM
Because Rummy’s just got the look.
ddrintn on May 17, 2009 at 4:31 PM
Del Dole,monte:
Not to mention the fact that Bill Clinton authorized the bombing of Iraq on numerous occasions. I guess the Democrats do not consider bombing raids or cruise missiles to be offensive, purely defensive.
If Clinton had been president during Katrina, the only thing we would have heard about what a great job the Coast Guard and the National Guard did. No screaming, yelling, threatening, cursing, finger pointing. No sireee.
Everything is about politics to these people.
Just look at Grow Fin’s claiming Bush was the worst president since someone or other, totally oblivious to what a mess Barack has made in just a few months.
Terrye on May 17, 2009 at 4:31 PM
ABC Debates Pelosi
Carville says Pelosi made mistake
William Amos on May 17, 2009 at 4:31 PM
Baxter Greene:
Yeah, luck. It could not have had anything to do with work, sacrifice, risk taking and determination.
Terrye on May 17, 2009 at 4:33 PM
I agree, and the left was absolutely ruthless in how they went after Bush (one of the only things I respect about the left, though I wish they would fight against America’s enemies even half as hard, mercilessly, and ruthlessly as they fight against their political enemies in America), but Bush was really a left-leaner, himself. His second term was awash with his move to the left, especially with respect to foreign policy. He stayed the course on Iraq, Thank G-d, but I was never more disappointed than with how he changed in his second term. He empowered the UN and served up US sovereignty like it was pate.
To me, the reason that The Precedent is now adopting/keeping most of Bush’s war tactics is because Bush was that far left, already. The fact that the left hounded him, anyway, just goes to their self-hate, anti-Americanism and utterly despicable nature.
progressoverpeace on May 17, 2009 at 4:33 PM
Never heard anyone call Clinton a war criminal for the bombing raids. He did put into place the official US policy of removing Hussein.
TheBlueSite on May 17, 2009 at 4:34 PM
No, FOX News managed that, not Obama.
Grow Fins on May 17, 2009 at 4:34 PM
Did my last message contain objectional material? It never went through…just wondering.
TheBlueSite on May 17, 2009 at 4:34 PM
The administration underestimated how much Iran, Syria, Russia, China and a host of other bad actors in the world would stoke up and aid (directly or indirectly) the jihadist movement that we were fighting from late 2003 on.
Their real mess up was believing that these guys were going to sit on their hands and allow the US to have a major victory in the GWOT.
conservnut on May 17, 2009 at 4:35 PM
Regardless, Fox couldn’t have done it without him. Too bad it wasn’t a Soros-funded hootenanny, huh.
ddrintn on May 17, 2009 at 4:36 PM
How long has it taken you to create this delusional world you live in?
progressoverpeace on May 17, 2009 at 4:36 PM
About as long as it takes to read the latest talking points on Kos and DU.
ddrintn on May 17, 2009 at 4:38 PM
Dusty Greene:
What impression did normal people get from Abu Ghraib? Oh, but that is right, this is a holy war. I am being sarcastic.
The truth is that we send religious men off to war in uniform, always have.
The military is a very traditional institution. There are all sorts of arcane rituals out there.
I am not saying I think this was a smart thing to do, but then again, I think that people are in the habit of making a bigger deal out of things than necessary.
Last night I watched part of the Nascar race and was struck by the prayer and the National Anthem…and that was just a car race.
I bet that some of those drivers are not all that religious.
Terrye on May 17, 2009 at 4:38 PM
Yea, because no one knew why they went out there, they just did because “Fox said so.”
What the fcuk type of drugs are you on?
blatantblue on May 17, 2009 at 4:39 PM
No, but those attacks occurred while clinton was getting his knob polished. I guess that says more about Bush’s character as well as the lack of character demonstrated by O’Dumbass and clinton.
jdkchem on May 17, 2009 at 4:39 PM
I can’t imagine any public purpose served by putting Bible quotations on official Defense Department report cover sheets. It serves only a private, personal purpose, done at the risk of the sort of reaction it’s now getting.
That said, GH Bush is no longer the president and never can be again. In the meantime, we do have a president in office, making and reversing policies on national security, undertaking international apology tours, bowing on bended knee to the Saudi King, and who has said the following:
We will convey our deep appreciation for the Islamic faith, which has done so much over the centuries to shape the world, including in my own country.
Yet, while Nancy Pelosi and the MSM are focused on fighting the Florida recount through criminalizing the War on Terror, our country is going bankrupt, and there are plans to push through the extreme ideological strikes against industry through Cap-and-Trade and against the best health care in the world through socialization. And what does the MSM want us to discuss? Not any issues that could take the shine off their idol. Instead, they gush about how wonderful it is that Obama is just like Spock.
Loxodonta on May 17, 2009 at 4:39 PM
Grow Fins:
Nonsense. Those people did not take their orders from Fox, Fox just reported on them whereas the Obama media tried to hide them.
We are talking about hundreds of Tea Parties all over the country put together by people who are not in any way associated with Fox, or even with either party.
If someone put it together I would be more likely to credit Facebook or Twitter.
No, people are really upset by the spending and what they perceive to be the socializing of our economy. Trying to blame it all on Fox is just silly. It really is.
Terrye on May 17, 2009 at 4:42 PM
He must have meant Indonesia, because Islam has never done anything for the US. We didn’t even have more than a handful of muslims here until the last 20 years.
progressoverpeace on May 17, 2009 at 4:42 PM
I’m an atheist and I like Bible quotes. Whether one is a believer or not, our culture is Judeo-Christian. Plus, they sound really cool! Someone else mentioned that in every crisis this country has gone through, our president and great leaders have included quotes from the Bible in their speeches. Now all of a sudden, people are offended? Why? Because it was Bush and his administration? Because of the muzzies? No matter what the reason, the whiners can stuff it.
Blake on May 17, 2009 at 4:44 PM
Loxodonta:
I don’t think this has anything to do with Bush. And I also think that you might be surprised at some of the things that appear on cover sheets, everywhere. Not just defense.
Terrye on May 17, 2009 at 4:44 PM
Interesting that we cant see data that shows waterboarding protected us from attacks but we can see this trivial junk.
William Amos on May 17, 2009 at 4:44 PM
You need to climb off Rush’s back, AP. Yes he should have said that he wanted Obama’s POLICIES to fail, but most people know exactly what he meant–and either agree or disagree with his actual, intended meaning.
There usually IS a ‘better way’ to do almost everything–in politics and elsewhere–once you have time to reflect on the Aftermath of what’s been said & done, but you need to let go of one sentence uttered by a ‘conservative leader’ months ago.
You don’t like him because Rush is a conservative rather than a Pagan Libertarian………
Janos Hunyadi on May 17, 2009 at 4:44 PM
The boss had quite a bit to do with that as I recall. Credit where credit is due my retarded lefty troll friend.
conservnut on May 17, 2009 at 4:45 PM
I read somewhere, that the president who used the most bible quotes in his speeches was actually Bill Clinton. I wish I could remember where I saw that. It was one of those little known facts kind of things.
Terrye on May 17, 2009 at 4:46 PM
Totally off topic but I was hoping someone could clear this up for me. I read that Obama when he spoke today at ND, he said he was for allowing letting those with religious convictions not having to perform abortions. Did I miss his flip-flop somewhere?
deidre on May 17, 2009 at 4:47 PM
The ONE has spoken
William Amos on May 17, 2009 at 4:47 PM
More evidence of gop/Bush buffoonery. The Bushies couldn’t run a popcorn stand, let alone a country. And all you goopers worshipped W, like he was some king or something. I don’t know who was dumber, Bush or Rummy. Both were arrogant along with Rove, who used to boast of “a permanent gop majority.” How’z that working out for you Karl? The architect, as Hanitty refers to him in his slobbering way. Almost one trillion invested in the mistake of Iraq, and you goopers complain of Obama spending too much. Its no wonder the gop is shrinking, a ship of fools, and yet you still haven’t learned anything. A year after we leave, the Shia, Sunni, and Kurds will fight a civil war to see who runs the country. gop=fools…read it and weap
athensboy on May 17, 2009 at 4:48 PM
They did get the secular part right. He became “devout” when it became clear to everyone that he had no chance. That does not however prove that he was not providing material support for terrorists. Unless your a brain-less moron who spent more time growing fins instead of a brain. I find it rather humorous that the jihadists and their pansies on the left are the first to whine about “religious” motives. They’ll turn anything into a holy war.
jdkchem on May 17, 2009 at 4:48 PM
Terrye,
Nascar? We don’t have millions of “drivers” worried that we are occupying their countryand killing thousands of civilians in the process just to turn them away from what they see as the one true way to God. I would bet my yearly salary that those quotes were enough to turn atleast one muslim teenager, maybe whose motehr was killed in a bombing, that the Mullah now telling him that “American is a great Satan and we must fight them to protect Allah” is telling the truth. After all look at the picture, look at the quotes….look at the reality that kid has lived. He is not stupid for believing it. It may not be true but we shouldn’t be handing the terrorists a whole bunch of propaganda tools to create little terrorists.
Fact is we do have to win hearts and minds. And making people scared that we are attacking them do to their holding the wrong religion is no way to do it.
Even if you were going to put bible quotes, why those ones, with thse pics, they are so inflamatory.
There were so many other quotes that could give strength but didn’t caharacterize us as the “righteous nation” entering do God’s will”.
I restate…the people who did this and let these actions continue were being STUPID!
DustyGreen on May 17, 2009 at 4:49 PM
Things liberals know nothing about.
Baxter Greene on May 17, 2009 at 4:49 PM
I sure that only applies to our side.
conservnut on May 17, 2009 at 4:50 PM
You do realize that you are what you despise.
Jamson64 on May 17, 2009 at 4:50 PM
If you are so worried about buffoonery why did you vote for a pair of ass-clowns?
jdkchem on May 17, 2009 at 4:50 PM
In reality, the evil Bush declared a state of emergency in Louisiana days before Katrina arrived there, and the Coast Guard did an absolutely terrific job in the first 3 days after the hurricane, rescuing over 10,000 people.
But in the parallel universe known as BDS-13, that never happened either.
Del Dolemonte on May 17, 2009 at 4:50 PM
loling my head off
blatantblue on May 17, 2009 at 4:50 PM
I have to respectfully disagree, Janos. I used to give the example that all of Lenin’s policies were abject failures, but Russia still had to labor under their ill-effects for decades. Policy failure isn’t really good enough, since the inertia they generate is often too difficult to overcome. I think it is important that The Precedent, himself, fails before any more of his policies even get a chance. Once they’re in, it’s too late, fail or not.
I’m not sure that Rush was saying what I am (I think he was really closer to your interpretation) but I think people need to understand that even giving some awful policies a chance is an inescapable sentence, itself.
That’s how I see it.
progressoverpeace on May 17, 2009 at 4:51 PM
Thanks for the satire.
Del Dolemonte on May 17, 2009 at 4:51 PM
I wonder how often athensboy has to stop and clean the spittle off the monitor?
conservnut on May 17, 2009 at 4:52 PM
I take it that this yet another part of the never ending campaign to stigmatize all conservatives and Obama opponents. You know, like we’re all racists, etc.
I have seen hundreds of official cover sheets for federal reports. They only had the title and or a brief blurb about the contents. That was long ago, though. What have I been missing? Quotes from Star Wars? The Complete Works of Mel brooks? How silly does it get?
Loxodonta on May 17, 2009 at 4:52 PM
“weap”. Skippy?
Del Dolemonte on May 17, 2009 at 4:54 PM
If they were so worried about being attacked because of their religion perhaps they should not have flown 2 planes into the WTC and then danced in the streets afterwards.
jdkchem on May 17, 2009 at 4:54 PM
“Suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope (Romans 5:3-4).”
A bible quote that could have given hope but doesn’t immediatly suggest holy war to the casual observer.
See the difference between that and
” Open ye the gates, that the righteous nation which keepeth faith may enter in.” Isaiah 26:2
DustyGreen on May 17, 2009 at 4:54 PM
Here’s more information on your “friend.”
Loxodonta on May 17, 2009 at 4:55 PM
jdkchem
THEY DIDN’T!!!!!!!
IRAQ HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH SEPT 11TH!!!!!
No connection was ever found!
DustyGreen on May 17, 2009 at 4:55 PM
LOL! Spoken like someone who did not attend a single tea party. Hey, acne-grower, go back to Axelrod and ask to get some better talking points.
Norwegian on May 17, 2009 at 4:55 PM
Is everything under the sun,connected to President Bush!
canopfor on May 17, 2009 at 4:57 PM
Try reading his 1993 Inaugural Address:
http://www.bartleby.com/124/pres64.html
Del Dolemonte on May 17, 2009 at 4:58 PM
Tell that to US Federal Judge Harold Baer, a Clinton appointee. He ruled in 2003 that there was a connection between Iraq and the 9/11 attacks.
Del Dolemonte on May 17, 2009 at 5:00 PM
ROTFLMAO
conservnut on May 17, 2009 at 5:00 PM
Why are we shirking away from what we should be proud of. The invasion of Iraq (and any other heathen, disgusting nation) was god-ordained and most necessary. These “people” act more like little children and need to be consecrated to Christ any way possible.
God delivered us to Iraq to do His work and will continue to deliver us through until the necessary conditions for Christ the King’s return have been met.
Seven Seas on May 17, 2009 at 5:01 PM
My sympathies to you.
Any time!
ps: I’ve always wanted my own Canadian eh, but can’t find any breeding stock down here. Can they be shipped?
Loxodonta on May 17, 2009 at 5:02 PM
My reaction to this is as follows:
“…and?”
Is there doubt in the mind of anyone reading this that if it was discovered that someone working for Obama is doing the same thing on his intel briefings, it would be trumpeted as an indication of how devout he secretly is despite the fact he has neither attended a church in Washington nor attended the annual prayer breakfast?
L.N. Smithee on May 17, 2009 at 5:02 PM
Del Dolemonte,
The problem isn’t that Bible quotes were used, it is which were used and the context in which they were used.
We want
1. SAFETY
2.PEACE
The quotes used and the way they were used undermined both of these goals.
The problem is the quotes used, with the acompanying pictures adds legitimacy to what the radical Mullahs are saying. It suggests that America is in a Holy War to try and convert these contries to Christianity.
That is the problem I see, not the fact that Bible quotes were included.
DustyGreen on May 17, 2009 at 5:03 PM
Any heathen nation?
blatantblue on May 17, 2009 at 5:08 PM
US Federal Judge Harold Baer,
That is your proof…..do you know who liimited the info he was able to view in that case.
What about the 9/11 commision that actuall did have access.
It has been years and we have now had an indepth investgation and the report came back.
NO LINK
It is sad that you would even pull out that federal case without even reading it.
Here, in part, is what Judge Baer had to say about the Iraq-9/11 connection:
“The opinion testimony of the plaintiffs’ experts is sufficient to meet plaintiffs’ burden that Iraq collaborated in or supported bin Laden/al Qaeda’s terrorist acts of September 11. . .
“Their opinions, coupled with their qualifications as experts on this issue, provide a sufficient basis for a reasonable jury to draw inferences which could lead to the conclusion that Iraq provided material support to al Qaeda and that it did so with knowledge and intent to further al Qaeda’s criminal acts.”
All ge said is that it was likely…read the whole thing…he whole hardedly acknowledges he doesn’t have access to the pertinent info to know for sure.
CHECK YOUR SOURCES TO SEE THEY SAY WHAT YOU THINK THEY SAY.
DustyGreen on May 17, 2009 at 5:10 PM
I seem to recall something Islam has done for the US.
Vaguely.
It happened somewhere in the Northeast.
I think.
And it had some numbers on it.
Or something.
123? 45678? 91011?
Maybe President Obama could send Air Force One to search for an answer. Start in New York.
Loxodonta on May 17, 2009 at 5:11 PM
Here’s a realistic scenario.
radiofreevillage on May 17, 2009 at 5:12 PM
Bush never said it did.Not one quote,not one time did Bush maintain that Saddam had anything to do with 9/11.
You might want to review this as to why democrats and Republicans voted to go to war based on past actions and intel from the Clinton Administration and the current atmosphere after 9/11 that we had to go on the offensive because the current democratic policies were failures:
JOINT RESOLUTION ON IRAQ
October 11, 2002
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/middle_east/july-dec02/joint_resolution_10-11-02.html
Whether anyone thought Saddam had anything to do with 9/11 or not,it was not used as a rational to go to war in Iraq.
There were plenty of reasons to take out Saddam and democrats along with Republicans felt it was time to act.
The world is better off now because of it.
To bad all this super liberal logic has done nothing for Darfur,Tibet and failed Rwanda.
Baxter Greene on May 17, 2009 at 5:12 PM
While Judge Baer said the evidence of an Iraq-9/11 link was largely circumstantial and “just barely” met the required burden of proof, he awarded the claimants $104 million.
GRRRRR. Del Monte
That is one of my pet peeves. People who quote sources they have never read!
DustyGreen on May 17, 2009 at 5:13 PM
Baxter,
I wasn’t saying Bush said their was.
I was replying to jdkchem
He said,
If they [IRAQ] were so worried about being attacked because of their religion perhaps they should not have flown 2 planes into the WTC and then danced in the streets afterwards.
jdkchem on May 17, 2009 at 4:54 PM
I was pointing out his error, not commenting on Bush
DustyGreen on May 17, 2009 at 5:14 PM
GQ… yeah, another Conde Nast left wing circle-jerk.
Next?
D2Boston on May 17, 2009 at 5:15 PM
FDR’s D-Day radio prauer:
“…Almighty God: Our sons, pride of our nation, this day have set upon a mighty endeavor, a struggle to preserve our Republic, our religion, and our civilization, and to set free a suffering humanity….”
http://www.historyplace.com/speeches/fdr-prayer.htm
juliesa on May 17, 2009 at 5:15 PM
Even that gets conservatives in trouble. Remember when Palin was ridiculed for her speech to the troops? The left tried to insist that she was inciting a holy war, yet Palin calmly diffused their hysteria by showing them that she was actually quoting Lincoln?
yogi41 on May 17, 2009 at 5:16 PM
Can they be shipped.
Loxondonta on May 17,2009 at 5:02PM.
Loxondonta:
There are plenty of fine Canadian Beavers,from its
natural habitat!
You’ll need a small cage,tho!!
And,just to be clear Lox, I’m kidding!:)
canopfor on May 17, 2009 at 5:18 PM
LOL, first of all, all that I said was that Judge Baer ruled that the evidence he heard led him to conclude that there was a 9/11-Iraq connection. I never claimed that he made the right ruling.
Second of all, I never cited any sources.
Third, the 9/11 Commission was a joke. The fact that one of the people whose policies resulted in the 9/11 attacks was never questioned under oath proves it.
Please try again.
Del Dolemonte on May 17, 2009 at 5:20 PM
I never quoted any sources.
Del Dolemonte on May 17, 2009 at 5:21 PM
Gee, I wonder how those hyperventilators ever read a speech or report by Honest Abe Lincoln, supposedly one of their most fave Presidents? His reports and speeches are chock full of Bible quotes. Why it’s almost as if he believed that God was on the side of the union. What a ridiculous ignorant thought, our liberal friends would no doubt assert. How could God ever be on the side of the US of KKKA?
I found nothing shocking or inappropriate about the quotes from the Bible. If someone found the quotes objectionable they could photocopy the report with the quote whited out, so their extreme sensitivities (and we know how extreme the sensitivities of our muslim countrymen/women are) would not be irreparably damaged by quotes from the Scriptures.
eaglewingz08 on May 17, 2009 at 5:22 PM
There are three major sections to the arab/persian/muslim threat to us (and all of civilization). The Shiite, Sunni, and secular arabs (baathists and others). Iraq was the leading secular arab threat and happened to be the one we were still technically at war with.
All three of these branches are independent, though they collaborate when it serves their interests, while they each want to kill each other, in the end.
After 9/11, the entire arab/persian/muslim threats had to be addressed. All of their power is derived from the gulf oil fields (without which they would be totally defanged and unable to pose any serious threats). The best first step to taking care of this problem is through the secular arab threat, later moving on to handle the Shiite and Sunni arms.
To try and claim that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 and, therefore, was the wrong battle to fight is like complaining that Americans got hit by Japan and turned around and went to fight Frenchmen in North Africa. There is a larger picture.
Unfortunately, Bush did not move to hit the Shiite threat as we should have – especially as Iran was committing acts of war against us, left and right, in Iraq. Much of that had to do with the fact that he was beaten down by the idiot left raising holy hell about everything he did (in their efforts to wrest political control of the US), along with the left’s idiotic penchant for screaming bloody murder about oil without ever acknowledging that oil is the lifeblood of the world, without which everything comes to a stop and billions of people around the world die. But the left never cared about people dying. All they care about is political power.
progressoverpeace on May 17, 2009 at 5:23 PM
Del Monte?
If you didn’t think Baer held any relevence why did YOU bring it up as some sort of proof that there was a link?
So what is your proof there is a link if you agree that Baer is not any proof? And again..then why did you bring him up
DustyGreen on May 17, 2009 at 5:24 PM
The Bush Administration did not have an ear for PR during the entire 8 years. They were tone deaf and when PR disasters happened, they were inept in their response.
In retrospect, with all of the deep Bush hatred, I find it bizarre that Bush served two full terms in office being as inept as they were with PR. How was he not impeached, for any off the wall charge that the left and the Democrats could come up with? How did this religous quote thing not see daylight before now?
myrenovations on May 17, 2009 at 5:26 PM
Delmonte “I never quoted any sources.”
You used BAER as your source
This isn’t that far up the post. If you are going to use his judgment as a dource to prove your point I would have assumed that yo’d have read the judgement and known that he admitted that all the evidence was circumstantial and barely proved a link.
DustyGreen on May 17, 2009 at 5:27 PM
The problem with simple people like Dusty Greene is that they have absolutely no problem accepting the fact that other countries might have been involved in the 9/11 attacks, such as Saudi Arabia.
But for some strange reason, they are deathly afraid to even consider the possibility that one country, and one country only, was involved. Iraq. They would rather be waterboarded than admit such a possibility exists.
Seems to me that any normal American would consider all of the possibilites. And not automatically eliminate one such possibility, simply because of partisan politics.
Del Dolemonte on May 17, 2009 at 5:28 PM
If what you posited were true–that Ogabe and his Administration care about the poor, even his own actual (half) brother!–he’d start with the half-brother in Kenya who lives in a shack on $12/year!
Ogabe doesn’t give a sh*t about “the poor”–he eats $100 Kobe beef, flies in a pizza chef, spends $50, 000 to take the presidential motorcade for a hamburger and his wife wears $540 Lanvin sneakers!
Jenfidel on May 17, 2009 at 5:28 PM
The only reason I brought him up was to get a reaction exactly like the one you have provided for our amusement.
I read Judge Baer’s decision in 2003, when it came down. And all of the news coverage about his ruling at the time.
And like it or not, the fact remains that he did rule that way. And it continues to drive you Leftists nuts. Because, after all, Iraq, and only Iraq, could never do such a thing.
Now tell us again about that 9/11 Commission being the final arbiter of truth, despite the fact that they failed to question under oath one of the people whose policies directly resulted in the attacks.
Del Dolemonte on May 17, 2009 at 5:31 PM
Del Montew
Bush admits that Iraq Had Nothing To Do With 9/11
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_A77N5WKWM
Honestly, even Bush said there is no connection.
DustyGreen on May 17, 2009 at 5:33 PM
Part of my point was that Rush talks for a living, almost totally unscripted, and only rarely gives what can be called a ‘policy speech’. He does not implement policy at all, of course, as he has never been elected to office.
If you are saying that Obama is more than the Sum of his Policies, I agree–and in that sense ( like Rush ) I want Obama to fail: as a politician, as a leader, as a spokesman, as TOTUS / POTUS, as party leader, etc, etc.
I’m only telling you what you already know: Regardless of what Rush said or how he worded it, the Usual Suspects would have taken it out of context and used it for “A Week of Hate”
Remember Newt and his remark about one program withing the health care system in 1993? The media and Clintons said that Newt meant he wanted Medicare to “wither on the vine” when in fact he said or implied no such thing
…..it’s why I like watching the media slowly die ( while hoping the Process will accelerate )
Janos Hunyadi on May 17, 2009 at 5:35 PM
Obama tells Notre Dame graduates we should stop demonizing those we disagree with
So nice to know THE O will not demonize Rush anymore
congma on May 17, 2009 at 5:36 PM
Wow…it is so silly that it drives me nuts.
That I don’t want the sacrifices of my freinds there to be for nothing, wittled away because stupidities like the “cover pages” created 2 terrorists for everyone that they killed.
IRAQ is real people Del. If you don’t get riled up by our men in women being in harms way and wanting it to be for the best possibe out come then you aren’t much of a patriot!
DustyGreen on May 17, 2009 at 5:36 PM
Your side has been calling Bush a liar since 2000. Yet when it’s politically convenient for you, he’s suddenly a paragon of truth? Please don’t insult my intelligence.
Now, tell us why your side is so afraid to admit that there is even a possibility that Iraq was involved with 9/11.
Seems to me that if you were in fact a true American, you would want to know exactly who helped al Qaeda to hit us.
Why is that one country automatically assumed to be guiltless?
Del Dolemonte on May 17, 2009 at 5:37 PM
God raises nations and leaders up as well as tears them down. Bush was the right man at the right time and man had nothing to do with it. Now not all leaders are the same and Reagan,Washington and Truman were exceptional men at important times in our history.
thomasaur on May 17, 2009 at 5:38 PM
Well that wouldn’t matter much in terms of a greater nexus of rogue states and non-state rogue actors.
Saddam has had a long history of doing bidnazz with the Islamists, be it Hamas, with Ansar al-Islam through his intelligence group, al Awsat Trust, a terrorist financing entity, etc etc.
Then there are all the things we haven’t looked into, such as the reports of Iraqi intel meeting with certain AQ unsavories in places like Manila.
I think there’s a lot more to the story than we are being told, but that doesn’t mean Iraq was behind 911.
But that doesn’t mean he had nothing to do with Islamists in general.
blatantblue on May 17, 2009 at 5:38 PM
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