The Instruments of Wealth
posted at 11:18 am on May 16, 2009 by Doctor Zero
President Obama has lately been pushing a credit-card reform bill in the Senate, which he says is designed to curb abuses by the card issuers. Among these ‘abuses’ are interest-rate hikes imposed on delinquent card holders, and applying payments first to lower-interest balances rolled over from other credit cards at discounted introductory rates. “Americans know that they have a responsibility to live within their means and pay what they owe. But they also have a right to not get ripped off,” the President argued in his weekly radio address. “Abuses in our credit card industry have only multiplied in the midst of this recession, when Americans can least afford to bear an extra burden.”
Of course, nobody who has ever been on the receiving end of a credit card rate hike likes them very much, and such increased costs are indeed tougher for consumers to bear in a recession. We might, however, ask how a company exercising its lawful right to adjust its fees – in accordance with terms clearly spelled out on the agreements signed by its customers – is ripping Americans off. It might not be nice for credit-card companies to raise their rates on struggling clients, and it might not be a sound business practice in a down economy, but it’s not fraud. Maybe someone with access to unlimited media exposure, such as the President, could use his bully pulpit to call upon these companies to exercise more compassionate policies toward their customers, and suggest the competitive advantage in being able to advertise their “kinder and gentler” credit products, instead of treating them like perps in a police lineup.
These casual accusations of criminality and deceit come easily to Obama, who has been a real bull in the china shop of the credit industry. He’s threatened Chrysler’s bond holders with personal destruction, and used raw government power to adjust the balances on home mortgages. Nervous banks have taken TARP funds designed to stimulate new lending, and sat on those funds instead, because they’re afraid to make loans in the increasingly Venezuelan business environment the Administration has created. U.S. Treasury bonds are losing frightening amounts of value in the face of reckless deficit spending. This Administration probably wouldn’t exist if a group of fabulously corrupt senators – including Barack Hussein Obama – hadn’t gotten rich by forcing the mortgage industry to make unrealistic loans to politically favored constituent groups, and fending off every attempt to correct the system before it crashed.
This is all very bad news for our future, because credit – in all its forms – is one of the most advanced instruments for the creation of wealth ever devised. A market filled with timid lenders and frightened borrowers is a market where wealth shrivels away.
In the most primitive type of economy, people barter goods and services directly. If you want some of the meat I brought back from my hunt, you have to give me some eggs. Besides being terribly inconvenient, the barter system makes complex financial transactions impossible, because value is so difficult to determine precisely. My hunk of venison is worth as many eggs as you’re willing to give me, and the next person I trade with might be prepared to give me more, or less. It’s hard to make trades with high values, or perform complex transactions, or carry goods over long distances to trade with distant folks. Consumers are reluctant to trade for anything they can’t assess personally. How can I tell if I’m trading for good meat, or well-made shoes, or a decent clay pot, if I don’t know anything about hunting, leather-working, or pottery?
The first contribution government makes to an economy is security. The government makes it safe to hunt, farm, or travel, by keeping away bandits and predators. The second contribution is a stable currency. Money gives consumers and producers a way to transport their wealth easily, and have confidence in the value of a transaction. It also makes much more complex financial arrangements possible, as people can pool their efforts in exchange for shares of value. A group of people can work together to do something, earn money, and then divide the money between themselves, much more easily than they could in a barter system. The exchange of money creates wealth. You give the shoemaker some money for a fine pair of shoes, and you are both wealthier after the exchange – you got a pair of shoes you needed more than a handful of money, and he got the money he wants, which he can spend on things he doesn’t know how to make for himself.
Everyone knows the old saying that “time is money,” but think about this: money lets you use your time more efficiently. You don’t have to fool around with shoemaking tools for hours, producing a barely adequate set of footwear. You can buy those shoes from someone who knows what they’re doing, and use the time you would have wasted at the workbench doing things you’re better at. This creates greater overall wealth in the economy. It also creates more leisure time, which leads to even more ways for people to make money, as they use their skills to fulfill each others’ desires, as well as meeting their basic needs. Moving from barter to money opens countless possibilities for people, and drives the development of technology. Nobody can organize the resources to create things like steam engines, industrial plants, or high-energy physics laboratories, if they have to trade goats and chickens to get what they need.
At the highest level of economic development is credit – the willingness of people with large amounts of money to loan it, for repayment plus interest. This is hugely important to the creation of an advanced society. Credit, in its many forms, allows enormously complex transactions, and encourages the kind of financial speculation needed for a roaring economy. It lets businessmen quickly assemble the resources to take advantage of opportunities. It encourages technology, by funding research and development – it’s hard for people to make speedy technological breakthroughs if they have to save up the money before they can buy equipment and hire assistants. Credit allows young people with minimal earning power to afford higher education, repaying their loans after they acquire the skills to increase their income. Consumer loans improve the standard of living, by allowing people to buy major items like cars and houses, when it would take them years to save up the money needed. These credit purchases supercharge the economy, by making people willing to buy things they might not have the resolve to carefully save up for. Would the market for iPhones, plasma TVs, and home computers have exploded if every potential buyer had to save up the money for months and years, then bust open his piggy bank to make a purchase? Credit makes money virtual, instead of physical – you can spend tomorrow’s money today.
Of course, credit can be abused. People run up loans they have difficulty repaying. Financial institutions hungry to earn interest made it easy for consumers to get in over their heads. People born in the Seventies, or earlier, can remember when credit cards were much more difficult to obtain than they are today. Consumers became addicted to buying luxuries on credit, and so has the government, which has been on a deficit spending binge. The problem with going after business and personal lending institutions and demonizing them, as Obama has been doing, is that it will reduce the supply of credit, without changing the demand. People still expect to be able to flash their charge cards and get everything they want immediately, business startups still need loans, major goods like cars and houses must still be purchased with loans, and the government shows absolutely no sign of cutting back on that massive deficit spending. However, the institutions which loan money are being frightened out of lending it, because they can no longer rely upon the value of binding contracts – the government has demonstrated a willingness to rewrite the terms by decree. Investors are wary of loaning capital to businesses that might be nationalized. Banks are a little nervous about loaning money for real estate with wildly fluctuating values. Worst of all, insane deficit spending is threatening the value of money. Lenders may wonder if risking a large sum of money to earn 6% interest is worthwhile, when the dollars repaying that loan might be worth 10% less. The effects of this uncertainty are making themselves felt slowly now, but they will become more obvious with increasing speed, if steps are not taken to restore confidence in the financial system.
Obamanomics is destroying the instruments of wealth in reverse order. Credit was devastated first, and money is starting to look a bit shaky. The increasing sense that politics will allocate resources, rather than financial necessity, makes money seem less important, and money pouts when it’s ignored. The core of the economy is security, and ridiculous spectacles like the Pelosi waterboarding tango, the weak response to high-seas piracy, or the sad performance of Obama and Hillary Clinton during recent trips abroad, can only damage it. An actual terrorist attack or Middle East war would be catastrophic, far beyond any immediate damage inflicted (as if that wasn’t bad enough.) It has become fashionable to forget the miraculous recovery of the Bush economy after 9/11. The Obama economy could never survive such a blow – it’s mortgaged to the hilt, with all its credit cards maxed out, and businessmen have been learning Obama views them more as adversaries than constituents. A life-and-death crisis would irrevocably shatter what confidence they have left.
In order for the economy to recover, we need a political class that restrains itself from bullying and menacing the credit industry. We have created too much wealth in America, over the last few decades, to effectively manage and nurture it, without the vigorous use of the most sophisticated instruments of wealth.
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I am all for freedom of contract and do not want to encourage more regulation, but credit cards do need to rein in changes in fees that occur without notice. It is BS. Frankly credit cards should also face the burden of default when they extend their services to people with terrible credit and who are high risk.
Mr. Joe on May 16, 2009 at 11:21 AM
If Obama was serious about credit abusers then he would focus on Congress rather than wall street.
In the name of equal opportunity we have created equal misery.
William Amos on May 16, 2009 at 11:21 AM
William Amos is right, credit card companies are pikers compared to Congress.
Mr. Joe on May 16, 2009 at 11:22 AM
“Some regard private enterprise as if it were a predatory tiger to be shot. Others look upon it as a cow that they can milk. Only a handful see it for what it really is – the strong horse that pulls the whole cart.”
Churchill says it like it is.
the_nile on May 16, 2009 at 11:24 AM
I don’t need the govt to do it. If my interest rate gets jacked, I close the card and do a balance transfer. Problem fixed, and no Obama needed.
tx2654 on May 16, 2009 at 11:26 AM
You’re one prolific SOB, doc
Keep writin
blatantblue on May 16, 2009 at 11:28 AM
He certainly is bringing us “CHANGE.” Of course, so did Hitler, Stalin, Hurricane Katrina, the HIV virus and 9/11.
Star20 on May 16, 2009 at 11:31 AM
When creditors become predators, then Obama will get traction with the masses. Inflating interest without notice should be illegal. Those who abuse credit will be the ones who who are entrapped into a economic demise. When greed and corruption gets to this level of damaging this many people then something has to be done. Socialism is definitely not the solution, but enslaving the lower classes with economic chains has to be addressed.
volsense on May 16, 2009 at 11:35 AM
Credit cards aren’t free money. If one finds the terms and conditions associated with unsecured credit lines to be disagreeable, then I would suggest staying out of debt.
Mike Honcho on May 16, 2009 at 11:35 AM
No joy.
Time for this social experiment to end. Get rid of this buffoon in the White House, as well as the clowns on his staff.
Bishop on May 16, 2009 at 11:36 AM
Now THAT is absolute BS….Credit card agreements read like software agreements…hundreds or thousands of words designed to insure no one understands or reads them, There is nothing ‘CLEAR’ about the process. If the company was interested in clarity, they would simply write something like this “[b]In the event the card holder is late in a payment, overspends his credit limit, or in any way inconveniences this company, we reserve the right to change the interest charged to whatever we desire with or without notice[/b]”
I agree the card holder has signed a contract and is bound but do not pretend the company has in any way made the penalties for error clear.
JIMV on May 16, 2009 at 11:37 AM
Oops
I didn’t mean SOB as in sob
I meant S.O.B.
You’re not a sob
blatantblue on May 16, 2009 at 11:39 AM
Those who abuse credit will be the ones who who are entrapped into a economic demise.
Wait, what? The government is now in the business of saving people who don’t have brains or sense to NOT abuse credit?
Bishop on May 16, 2009 at 11:39 AM
I do not use credit cards so this isn’t an issue that concerns my own finances.
But part of the reason I eschew credit cards is because I do not want to deal with the rate increases, minimum payments and finance charges.
The people who signed up for the cards knew the hazzards going in.
Now, government spending on a credit card called China, yeah, that is a problem we need to deal with.
myrenovations on May 16, 2009 at 11:40 AM
The company put it in the agreement that it could change rates. The applicant, presumably over 18, signed it. Like the adjustable rate mortgages that too many people didn’t read, the applicants could have read the papers, ask questions if they didn’t understand.
If the Dems try to alter existing credit card balances or agreements, they could run into trouble with the Contracts Clause in the Constitution.
But that would take a brave company to challenge the One and Congress in court. And he’s just call out the mobs with pitchforks to go after the eeeeevil bankers. Or yank the bank’s TARP chain, like he did with the Chrysler bondholders.
Wethal on May 16, 2009 at 11:40 AM
The truly sad fact is that these Dhimmicrat bozos will be REelected after they have destroyed the world economy and the U.S. economy… Unbelievable. Don’t Americans have any brains left.
Mojave Mark on May 16, 2009 at 11:42 AM
Then ask questions before you sign. And don’t sign anything you don’t understand.
Wethal on May 16, 2009 at 11:42 AM
I have one credit card with no annual fee. When the bill comes due, I pay it in full. I get the float for about three weeks (unlike with a debit card, where the amount immediately comes out of my bank account).
Haven’t paid an interest charge in decades. Would never get a cash advance except in a dire emergency, and I someohow couldn’t get to an ATM.
Wethal on May 16, 2009 at 11:45 AM
Last time I checked no one was forcing anyone to actually use a credit card. Some of these arguments are so stupid. Basically after the person has chosen to have a credit card, chosen to use the credit card, chosen to over spend, they shouldn’t be held responsible when they can’t pay it back. Huh?
If you pay your bills and don’t spend what you don’t have there is no problem.
Greed? Isn’t pretty greedy to go buy that big screen TV (gotta have it) with the plastic and then never pay for it?
odannyboy on May 16, 2009 at 11:46 AM
Heh. You used Democrats and Constitution in a sentence that made it seem like a block, not a hurdle.
myrenovations on May 16, 2009 at 11:47 AM
Let’s all get on board the Obama economy.
I’m offering 4 deer pelts for CitiBank’s outstanding common stock.
Ted Torgerson on May 16, 2009 at 11:47 AM
The right place to do this is Congress.
Reform is long overdue. Credit Card companies are getting away with theft on a daily basis. As the commenter said the agreements are are impossible to understand. They constantly rip consumers off. Capitol One was forced to refund money when it was not crediting payments for two weeks after depositing the money in their bank. Are you really defending this. Other CC’s have issued cards at 0% then upped it to 19 or even 36% on the first statement because of supposed problems that were months old an obvious bait and switch.
Sometimes it seems that some in our party live by the slogan. “Screw the common man often and hard”
Steveangell on May 16, 2009 at 11:48 AM
“Socialism is definitely not the solution, but enslaving the lower classes with economic chains has to be addressed.
volsense on May 16, 2009 at 11:35 AM”
The lower classes enslave themeselves when they buy plasma TV’s, I-Pods and vacations on their credit cards. You can’t fight stupid.
Star20 on May 16, 2009 at 11:48 AM
If only every credit card user was as responsible…
I wasn’t implying that the cards should be banned or anything.
I just want more people to be like you. Or, if they aren’t like you, I want the government to stay out of it.
myrenovations on May 16, 2009 at 11:49 AM
Well, you have a point, but the complexity of credit card policies is nothing compared to the US tax code. At least I can change credit cards if I don’t like the terms, and I won’t go to jail if I misunderstand them.
Socratease on May 16, 2009 at 11:51 AM
Credit card companies should have higher standards for issuance. If they give a card to an 18 year, they should live with the loss. If they set limits and are limited to a a fare return, that would force them to be more selective.
TheSitRep on May 16, 2009 at 11:52 AM
Of course, credit can also be a fast track to becoming broke as well.
It’s just one more instance of unprecedented government involvement and control over private industry and the free market. None of which is surprising.
I just really, really, really wish that more Republicans took the election, and the mere possibility of a President Obama, more seriously than they did. This administration is going to go down as an epic failure, and will surely test the resolve and resilience of America in the decades to come.
JetBoy on May 16, 2009 at 11:53 AM
I’m not defending Capitol One’s using shady techniques to enable it to charge more fees by holding the payments before depositing them.
However, if the credit card agreement said that the bank could raise the interest rate, and the consumer dind’t bother to read or ask questions, sorry.
I’m a lawyer, although I don’t do much contract law. Read all papers before you sign. Ask questions. Don’t like the answers, don’t sign. And if you can, try to write in the answers on the contract. Don’t rely on verbal assurances.
Grownups are presumed to have read and understood what they signed.
Wethal on May 16, 2009 at 11:56 AM
Ted Torgerson @ 11:47 AM
I’ll see your four deer pelts and raise you one beaver pelt.
Vince on May 16, 2009 at 11:58 AM
You must be important.
TheJoker on May 16, 2009 at 12:01 PM
What it all means…….GOOGLE: The Obama Deception
volsense on May 16, 2009 at 12:02 PM
That’s the logical thing to do, don’t like the way the credit company is screwing you, close the account and move along. That’s how it should be, but it’s not in the end.
A closed credit card “by the customer” is then held against you and lowers your credit rating for future borrowing.
What is up with that????? You think you’re doing the right thing, whether you’re closing the account because of high interest rates or just to avoid temptation of using the card, you’re screwed either way.
Knucklehead on May 16, 2009 at 12:03 PM
States set the rate of return, which is why so many credit card companies are located in Delaware (hello Bidens!) and South Dakota.
If the 18 year old takes out the card and runs up a tab, he should live with the obligation. It’s called the School of Life.
Wethal on May 16, 2009 at 12:05 PM
Your point being?
Wethal on May 16, 2009 at 12:05 PM
It is not the credit card companies that are the culprits anymore than any seller that makes something available to the market. It is the buyer’s ignorance and the backup to ignorance is simply irresponsible behavior and suffering difficult consequences. It is sort of a buyer beware thing as old as history itself.
rsl775 on May 16, 2009 at 12:07 PM
Not for long…not for long.
bikermailman on May 16, 2009 at 12:10 PM
What’s the problem, sales so far down for the whack job Alex Jones and his DVD that you have to come here and shill for it?
If a product is decent, it should stand on it’s own merits without spamming other blogs in order to get viewers or buyers. And it really takes balls to come to a blog that belongs to MM after the treatment she received from whackadoodle Alex Jones.
Knucklehead on May 16, 2009 at 12:14 PM
Get your Obama MasterCard today!
No signup fees if you vote Democrat
Automatically Qualify for $3000 line of credit if you support my healthcare plan by protesting (in person)congress members who are against my plan
Can’t make your payments? Don’t worry, Obama MasterCard will make the rich taxpayers pay your share
TN Mom on May 16, 2009 at 12:15 PM
Steveangell,
Yes I’m sure Congressional action will fix everything. Perhaps our incorruptible Congressfolk will actually read the “2009 Credit Card Reform Act” before voting on it?
Disreputable practices can be found everywhere. The risk associated of that kind of malfeasance can be mitigated by not carrying a high balance. This is all simple common sense.
I’ve had some credit cards with awful terms before. I once had a Visa card with a (23.99% APR and a $500 limit) but I was never stupid enough to plunge into debt with it. I used it for small purchases, carried very small balances, and then graduated something with a much better APR and limit. I currently have an AMEX card that I carry a small balance on and I have never had any problems. As a matter of fact the customer service has always been exemplary.
Mike Honcho on May 16, 2009 at 12:17 PM
Same logic applies to loans that were “too good to be true.” People didn’t read the fine print. And they don’t read the fine print of credit card agreements. For the most part, lazy people are to blame, not the companies themselves. Are the companies trying to take advantage of that laziness? In some cases, certainly. But responsibility still lies in the hands of the consumer. People need to wake up and start accepting the consequences of their actions.
BardMan on May 16, 2009 at 12:21 PM
Haha!
Wow. The joke is truly on both sides here. Read what is being proposed. It changes absolutely nothing that the Administration is indicating is changing, and does not deter the slightest increase in fees or rates.
It calls for clear language when explaining the terms, but doesn’t require a change in the terms a CC company can implement (In other words, “just do a better job of explaining the same terms you use today”).
It calls for fixed-period teaser rates; it does not eliminate or regulate the concept of “teaser rates”. (Isn’t that the complaint?)
It specifically does not alter in the slightest degree the rate of interest they can charge, or how they determine what rate they intend to charge.
In other words, it sounds like the CC industry has been re-made at the demand of the One and now benefits the working man. In reality, in doesn’t change jack shit.
So for the capitalists who are screeching about eliminating free markets, etc… fear not. Nothing has changed. If BOA is charging somebody 29% interest today, they get to continue.
There are state laws the regulate interest rates (created to criminalize loan sharking by organized crime), but the SCOTUS determined that these laws (usury) cannot cross a state line, meaning that the maximum interest rate a bank can charge is set by the state of incorporation, not the state of the consumer’s residence.
Which is why virtually all banks have incorporated in Delaware and South Dakota.
BobMbx on May 16, 2009 at 12:22 PM
Replacing those in power is one thing…………
………. getting ride of the policies like the “Community Reinvestment Act” is another.
After all the Trillions of dollars thrown at the problem….
…. the core cause still exists.
Seven Percent Solution on May 16, 2009 at 12:25 PM
Someone needs to explain to me how credit card companies can charge the exhorbitant rates they do (upwards of 20 per cent) when the current interest rate is so low. I can get a better interest rate from the local loan shark. He’s friendlier too.
They should have been investigated and forced to reduce the rates they charge long before now. I’m not against them making money, but wouldn’t a rate that’s only two or three points above the prime be more reasonable? And affordable?
BackwardsBoy on May 16, 2009 at 12:28 PM
Fine talk, coming from the biggest bully of them all. Is he going to be so benevolent, when the bill comes due, from all his spending? I seriously doubt it.
capejasmine on May 16, 2009 at 12:32 PM
Isn’t the idea of ‘moneylending’ repellent to orthodox muslims? Just askin.
TinMan13 on May 16, 2009 at 12:43 PM
Fine talk, coming from the biggest bully of them all. Is he going to be so benevolent, when the bill comes due, from all his spending? I seriously doubt it.
capejasmine
What bill? The printing presses are still working, aren’t they? Have we no 100% rag bond? Have we no ink?
SKYFOX on May 16, 2009 at 12:46 PM
+100
JetBoy on May 16, 2009 at 12:46 PM
But what if Obama WANTS to destroy wealth,so that only he gets to decide who has wealth? Spreading around huge amounts of other people’s money seems to be the Chicago Way.
Right_of_Attila on May 16, 2009 at 12:46 PM
Anyone in Texas feel the earthquake a several minutes ago?
carbon_footprint on May 16, 2009 at 12:50 PM
I’m about 40 miles north of Houston. Where did it strike?
capejasmine on May 16, 2009 at 12:52 PM
They’re incorporated in DE and SD, which pretty much have abolished usury laws.
Consumers don’t think they can negotiate terms, but they can. After seeing a TV news story on this, I called my bank and said I’d take a higher rate for no annual fee. They fell for it. I never run a balance, but pay it in full every month.
Same thing with other terms. If the consumers ask questions, sometimes they can get a better rate (especially with a good credit rating). But they just sign the mass-produced forms with banker-favored terms.
Wethal on May 16, 2009 at 12:53 PM
That s/he is insignificant.
Schadenfreude on May 16, 2009 at 1:01 PM
I’m in Conroe and didn’t feel anything. Where was it?
conservnut on May 16, 2009 at 1:03 PM
Says the man who wants Congress to spend and borrow beyond its means in the most irresponsible way in human history all the while ripping us and several generations to follow off.
The sycophantic media and much of the electorate all the while compliant in a manner that resembles Chamberlainesque naivete.
Orwellian politics.
anuts on May 16, 2009 at 1:10 PM
I use credit cards and could pay them off until I was laid-off. Now I am struggling to pay the minimum. I contacted my creditors and asked if they could work with me (lower the interest rate, etc.) until I got a job so that I could continue paying in good faith. I was basically told “screw you” and they jacked up my interest rates (30%). I am all about personal responsibility but when circumstances that are out of your control arise, creditors shouldn’t be able to screw you. I will eventually pay everything off and I guarantee you, I will NEVER use a credit card again.
txag92 on May 16, 2009 at 1:11 PM
Sorry, it is being reported as a 3.3 magnitude centered in Grand Prairie just southwest of Dallas.
carbon_footprint on May 16, 2009 at 1:11 PM
Knucklehead 12:14 PM
Your response sounds like personal bias as there is no sales or costs associated with the video. You get it for free so your case against the producer doesn’t hold water. I don’t know who Alex Jones is, but something that has 2,000,000 hits might interest some. Whether it is true or not is not up to me, but the viewer. Expound on your negativity about the video so we can have something besides your personal bias to relate to.
volsense on May 16, 2009 at 1:11 PM
Nothing up in Dallas…
anuts on May 16, 2009 at 1:12 PM
I live in Grand Prairie and didn’t feel a thing.
txag92 on May 16, 2009 at 1:16 PM
I have a friend who lives in GP that reported on FB that it shook his building and moved his table a couple of feet. I have another friend who lives at Joe Pool who did not feel anything.
http://earthquake.usgs.gov/eqcenter/recenteqsus/Quakes/us2009gsba.php
carbon_footprint on May 16, 2009 at 1:18 PM
Sorry to hijack the thread Doctor. This seemed to be the popular thread at the time.
carbon_footprint on May 16, 2009 at 1:19 PM
Given irresponsible consumer credit habits, your question marks would be valid.
However, when the credit card company notifies the card holder that the agreement signed on a fixed rate is null and void through no default of the card holder’s timely payments and good credit rating, but simply because the credit card company has decided to hike the rate because every other company is doing likewise, I DO HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT. Sure, you call the company and remind them of the original agreement–KEEP RECORDS FILED. At that point you find out whether or not you are screwed royal, because they can simply inform you that like it or not, play by the new rules or pay in full by the end of the month. Even the most customer friendly companies hiked rates upon Obama’s election, anticipating the extended ruination of our nation’s economy for this decade. It required a lot of very diplomatic reasoning and many phone calls to get our company to leave the current balance at that point under the original credit % agreement. Other banks have not been cooperative with the good credit customer given the rate hike out of nowhere on a fixed rate card agreement.
INSURANCE costs rise, and credit scores fall at the whim of this specified abusive banking credit practice. Unemployment ruins the credit rating as well, opening a scurrilous window of opportunism from such abusive banking practices.
That said, I refused to check the “yes” box on my legislator’s survey to support the Democrat credit card legislation since the devil is always in the details.
maverick muse on May 16, 2009 at 1:20 PM
When lenders stop lending, Obama just takes over the lender and pumps in taxpayer money so they can undercut the competition, thereby reducing available credit even further.
Govt to Run GMAC
PattyJ on May 16, 2009 at 1:20 PM
There’s a thunderstorm a brew, so hard to say.
maverick muse on May 16, 2009 at 1:23 PM
Anyone in Texas feel the earthquake a several minutes ago?
carbon_footprint on May 16, 2009 at 12:50 PM
There’s a thunderstorm a brew, so hard to say.
maverick muse on May 16, 2009 at 1:23 PM
I just moved to GP from San Francisco so I’ve been through bad quakes. I honestly didn’t feel anything.
Global warming has affected North Texas. It’s mid-May and I’m wearing a sweatshirt. :)
txag92 on May 16, 2009 at 1:26 PM
Those who survived Carter’s vengeance saw this coming.
The new kids have yet to realize what just squashed them flat.
Obama vs. Materialism @ ASU address, “what’s good for me, you may not have.” He wasn’t coronated with an honorary degree by the Sun Devils, but by Notre Dame. Steppenwolf figured out where saint meets beast. Obama would assume any form to gain more power.
maverick muse on May 16, 2009 at 1:34 PM
I think the process is very clear.
1) You use the credit card for everyday purchases no more than you would have normally spent using cash on hand or cash you expect to have within a month.
2) When the bill comes due you PAY it.
3) If you want credit for more money than you have on hand or will have in the near future, go down to your bank and get a LOAN or DO WITHOUT.
Credit cards are a convience. The credit card companies are not your bank and they’re not your best friend.
Now … is that clear enough for everyone? It was clear to me when I turned 18 and got my first credit card. I have never understood why this concept is so difficult for people to understand but I think it’s because they don’t WANT to understand. They’re like children looking for free money and unwilling to delay gratification.
And those people now have a President who represents them in every sense of the word.
PackerBronco on May 16, 2009 at 1:34 PM
Sorry, not buying your excuses, especially the one about not knowing who Alex Jones is. You’re simply here to drive up hits on his whackjobs video cause you were doing it yesterday too.
As far as my bias goes, I’m not the only one on this blog who has a bias when it comes to Alex Jones.
Take a look at this video is you’re so inclined, and watch the whole thing and then come back and tell me what kind of person Alex Jones is.
Michelle Malkins encounter with Alex Jones.
Knucklehead on May 16, 2009 at 1:35 PM
Tell me about it!
My friend lives 3 miles from the epicenter.
You can go to this link and type in your address to find out how far away from the epicenter you were.
carbon_footprint on May 16, 2009 at 1:36 PM
OBUNGLER = MICROMANAGER
byteshredder on May 16, 2009 at 1:37 PM
txag92 on May 16, 2009 at 1:26 PM
We enjoyed a year in Santa Clara on the top floor of the apt. complex. I’ve felt the shock sway there. Not here, just vibration from thunderous lightening bolts. They dance here.
maverick muse on May 16, 2009 at 1:37 PM
Q: What is the fundamental difference between Republican and Democratic ruling approaches?
A: Republicans rule the country as if it were classless; Democrats rule the country as if they were classless.
Dr. Charles G. Waugh on May 16, 2009 at 1:54 PM
When Reagan took over after Carter he reigned in credit card companies, they reduced the interest they charged because back then 20% interest was considered usury. Now we have 30% interest rates and it’s not usury?
Interest has it’s place, but overall when it’s abused as a wealth generating mechanism for the economy it’s a bad, bad thing. It’s fake money, generated out of nothing. It lends to the inflation of the economy based on nothing, a big chasm in the heart of the real value of the economy. One of the biggest problems we have is that giant chasm finally collapsed.
If it hadn’t been abused to the extent it was, the collapse would have been smaller and more absorbable in the inevitable and cyclical recession that eats the empty chasm. Obama’s policy of creating a worldwide empty chasm through national debt will result in the largest and worst economic disaster ever. After 10 years 17.5 trillion doesn’t even begin to describe the cost of the deficit this friggin idiot is going to bring on not only Americans, but the rest of the world.
Debt will not disappear certainly, the deficit never will using Obamas funked up math. The only thing that will vanish is the worlds wealth. The danger here is that it will cause such a reversal in economics that it will inevitably lead not to just another, bigger crash, it will lead to a worldwide war which will profit exactly nobody.
Aside from 0bama not having the intelligence to bring this economic ship about, his desire to level the world’s playing field will ultimately lead to simply leveling the world..period. The underprivileged he pretends to want to help will suffer the most (by dying) and those he thinks are immune to these effects will be the ones that put him on the end of the rope to satiate the raging masses.
an accurate quote from ‘Hitchiker’s Guide’;
“This will end in tears.”
Spiritk9 on May 16, 2009 at 1:55 PM
To bad it wasn’t large enough for the earth to open up, swallow Al Gore, and leave everyone else intact. LOL
capejasmine on May 16, 2009 at 1:56 PM
Knucklehead, your self importance reflects an arrogance that your moniker reinforces. What you are buying has no meaning to anyone, but yourself. What you know and what is true is beyond your limited perception. When I said I don’t know Alan Jones, I meant it. If you say different then you are delusional. You still did not answer my question about the video. If you are not a lib, you are lib-lite. The truth is what you want it to be and has no relevance to reality. Swapping barbs with an anonymous poster on Hot Air is for children.
volsense on May 16, 2009 at 2:00 PM
Guns and Gold for me baby. Hey, that’s a good t-shirt.
marklmail on May 16, 2009 at 2:07 PM
Would this be like me expecting my taxes to be a certain rate but then you come in and raise them, Mr. President? Or would it be like me expecting my contractual bonus or salary but then you came in and “ripped me off,” by changing the rules midstream, Mr. President? Just wonderin’…..
PrincipledPilgrim on May 16, 2009 at 2:21 PM
Knucklehead on May 16, 2009 at 1:35 PM
You’ve neglected the prelude setting the day’s stage, as Malkin already dubbed Jones a radical to be ridiculed. I am not apologizing for anything, just viewing the video link you provided. Thanks, as I had not seen the confrontation yet.
Vodka Pundit was at the DNC Convention Denver Mint protest organized by Alex Jones to ridicule him. After all was said and done, when asked what was going on, Vodka Pundit made it all about Michelle Malkin, that SHE had been at the Denver Mint to protest. Right, she was there to protest Alex Jones. And Vodka Pundit PJ Media were there to taunt Alex Jones as an agent provocateur, and Michelle equates Jones to Berkeley radicals. Rather than reiterate whatever she wrote, she simply refers people to buy her book. OK.
The DNC Denver Mint protest by Alex Jones was against the New World Order. There’s the setting. Michelle wrote a book that Jones’ deplored for enabling the internment of citizens as deprived of Constitutional Rights, 1st Amendment free speech, and for endorsing the FEMA Camps in Iraq that held children. Jones is holding a peaceful protest. Malkin & Co. insert themselves to make it all about themselves and rile Jones. Jones says “Down w/ Michelle Malkin”, “Shame on you, dirly liar, for coming here, for being anti-free speech,” and referenced the blood of children interned by FEMA into camps in Iraq, the torture of innocent victims, referenced Malkin’s InfoWars, and that she supports the internment of American citizens arrested on false charges to be imprisoned into FEMA Camps, gathered by our military.
As a matter of fact, Clinton had the military conduct those exercises in the USA. At that time, the mayor of San Antonio (NOT Cisneros who then headed HUD) refused to cooperate.
Like Michael Savage, Alex Jones can become very loud. But it was NOT Alex Jones shouting “fascist” or “kill”; and afterwards, Alex Jones apologized that the crowd was harder on Malkin than he. There was no violence. As per the pushing of the reporter accosting Jones, they were pushing in on him, smothering him.
And for the record, I supported Malkin and came across Jones via her hate campaign against him. Everyone has an axe to grind. No one’s perfect. Some people petrify their shoulder chips, not letting things go or looking from the other’s perspective.
Jones was called a radical for preaching against the New World Order years ago.
Some pundits just have to be the only one, as if there can only be one.
Take everything with a grain of salt, even from your friends. If an alliance is to be made, get over misunderstandings.
maverick muse on May 16, 2009 at 2:47 PM
This is as true as anything else I’ve read this year.
Paul-Cincy on May 16, 2009 at 2:59 PM
If you don’t like the rates, don’t get the card. If they raise the rates, cancel the card.
Somehow our family gets by with nothing but a debit card, so we don’t get the bills and we never pay any charges. Use paypal online so nobody has direct access to our bank account. It’s very simple–live within your means.
If you need more money, try a line of mortgage credit, or even refinance your car. The rates will always be better, and the payment schedule clear and with a defined end.
This ain’t rocket science.
You really can live without all the bling and toys. A trip to the library (it’s free) should take care of any spare time you need to waste. Running or walking is cheaper than the gym, and saves gas too. Try making dinner once in a while instead of going out. You’d be amazed at how much extra money you have had all along.
tcn on May 16, 2009 at 2:59 PM
We need more threads by you; clear, thought provoking subject matter. Followed by a spirited discussion.
And, troll-free!
Great job, Doctor.
massrighty on May 16, 2009 at 3:35 PM
I’m having quite a bit of trouble getting excited about this. Not a single credit card holder has stated they will exit the market if this legislation were to pass. In an era where these credit card vendors are charging their customers 21% (or more) interest at the same time as they take government largess at 3% (or less), I can see placing limits into place. Now that the bankruptcy laws have been modified to prevent the forgiveness of unsecured debt (such as credit cards), the cards are a lot less risky to the providers than ever before.
If they hadn’t pushed for their special status under bankruptcy law, and hadn’t (to a bank) taken the stimulus, I’d certainly feel more like those who say “a contract is a contract”. But they did and I don’t.
unclesmrgol on May 16, 2009 at 3:40 PM
No, they don’t. That’s why they’re getting hit up for interest and late fees. Too many are financially illiterate lowlifes who are too lazy to read their agreements.
Here’s a secret: pay off your balance each month as they come due.
BuckeyeSam on May 16, 2009 at 3:49 PM
Muslims hate Interest, therefore a Fatwa on Credit Cards.
GunRunner on May 16, 2009 at 4:08 PM
Knucklehead on May 16, 2009 at 1:35 PM
I’ve spent this time online researching whatever it was that Malkin wrote in 2004, In Defense of Internment: The Case for ‘Racial Profiling’ in World War II and the War on Terror, that in the DNC Convention Denver Mint she posed with her confrontation at Alex Jones’ protest of the One World Order. Malkin’s blog doesn’t post an obvious link to her books or reviews of them that I could find this afternoon. Amazon.com didn’t quite have her bibliography for ready reference, either. So Wikipedia’s bibliography below her entry was searched. Her critics listed therein shredded her selective cherry picked research with regards to the Japanese-American internment during WWII. Yes, I noted their affiliation with Kos. It isn’t that Malkin had no point, but that she took short cuts to prove her point, effectively losing the validity of her point enabling them to dismiss whatever her point was; Schade. But Alex Jones was the target of your vendetta. Whatever it was that riled Alex Jones re: Malkin enabling FEMA military abuse of American citizens’ rights, I’m not catching that online just now. And given no scholarly endorsement, I’m not going to buy Malkin’s book, though am open to reading it should she make it available online in order to substantiate her credibility in the arguments she makes with others.
I like Michelle Malkin. She’s accomplished many admirable achievements and deserves credit for her influential work. Her professional forté is in the daily upkeep of news and networking, brava. Spending months researching one item before determining her take is simply not her cup of tea, yet.
maverick muse on May 16, 2009 at 4:12 PM
Maverick, thanks for a great post. It was informative and gave some insight into why knucklehead was flaming like an adolescent. He was describing someone (Jones) against the New World Order as a liberlal describes conservatives. His proof of Jones being the enemy was a video about Michelle and Jones in Denver. I have seen bigger crowds at a third grader’s birthday party at Chuckie Cheese so I was not impressed. I now know who Jones is and am curious to explore his evidence in relation to the conservative way of thinking. Post often
volsense on May 16, 2009 at 4:21 PM
If more commonsense economics and basic math were emphasized in our public
indoctrination facilitiesschools rather than diversity for its own sake, political correctness, feelgoodism and environmental chickenlittleism, we wouldn’t have the huge volume of people who borrow over their heads as a way of life and then cast about for someone else to blame.hillbillyjim on May 16, 2009 at 5:59 PM
Credit card companies’ naked usury makes the Mafia look like piddling pikers.
Obfiscatorially-engineered deception, disguised as “ready credit”, is what makes these ravenous greedheads come up against public disgust and distrust.
No interest rates above 15% should be tolerated by regulators.
Only Congress giving itself raises stinks as much as the credit card companies’ stealth rate raises, cryptic fees, pervasive penalties and covert trickeries.
They need to be reined-in from their loan sharkish abuses.
profitsbeard on May 16, 2009 at 6:53 PM
.
Wouldn’t Obama-nation be a better candidate for swallowing?
darktood on May 16, 2009 at 7:23 PM
This administration is going to go down as an
epicipecac failure, and will surely test the resolve and resilience of America in the decades to come.JetBoy on May 16, 2009 at 11:53 AM
Dr. Charles G. Waugh on May 16, 2009 at 9:06 PM
I’d like to know what to do to protect my wealth before it gets destroyed. Perferably with explanations and proctections against wacky plans that might not work in all scenarios.
Diagnosing that something bad is happening /will happen/ might happen is not enough.
AnotherOpinion on May 16, 2009 at 9:30 PM
This is the key here — unfortunately current credit card rules — ie, late on payments elsewhere forcing a rate increase on previous balances purchased at a given acceptable rate — can be devistating to that wealth creation for mid to lower class families since they have no other option.
Thus locking them out of that wealth creation systems.
That part of the system is very punitive, even if you never pay late to the card you can end up screwed on your past actions — not current or future. That needs correction or other options at least for typical card carriers.
David
LifeTrek on May 16, 2009 at 11:38 PM
Thanks for taking the time and the explanation. I have no idea what the “new world order” stuff you’re talking about with regards to Alex Jones, and haven’t been around these parts to pay that much attention. Please read on….
For starters, I’m not flaming like a child and secondly, I’m 58 year old woman. And thirdly, I’m sorry I didn’t take the time to search for the better video of this incident, because it’s much more disturbing.
My point being, I don’t like the way Alex Jones and his merry band of nuts went off on Michelle, attacking her verbally, getting into her space, threatening her and chanting to the crowd to kill her, regardless of what the event was.
If you think that type of behaviour is acceptable, then you have a bigger problem than I do. It’s been kind of slow here at HA, but trust me, there are more people here at HA that will agree with me than will disagree at this horrible display of pure hatred.
Knucklehead on May 16, 2009 at 11:58 PM
Out of curiosity, how did you arrive at that 15% figure as the maximum acceptable interest rate? Isn’t that still rather high? Why not cap it at 9%, or 5%? The total outstanding credit card debt in the United States is something like nine hundred billion dollars. Five percent of that should be more than enough profit, right?
Of course, you have to deduct both operating costs, and uncollected balances, out of those tidy profit figures. Discover, which has one of the highest consumer satisfaction ratings, and is not known for particularly low interest rates, made about a billion dollars in profit last year, against $60 billion in outstanding credit card balances. That works out to less than two percent profit. Usury and organized crime generally pay better than that. You probably have a savings account that pays better than that.
I’m still not sure why people keep saying these rate increases, and the policy about applying payments against lower interest balances first, are “obfuscatory” or “hidden.” They’re spelled out plainly on every credit card application I’ve ever seen. Of course, you have to read the forms to see them. Are we suggesting that people who run up $10,000.00 balances without reading the terms of their credit cards are helpless victims? If you didn’t read the terms of use for your credit card when you signed up for it, you can read these terms online. It took me exactly thirty seconds to find the Terms of Use on Discover’s web site just now.
Now, having said that, I don’t like paying high rates of interest, or suffering late fees, any more than anybody else does. If you want to debate the merits of a consumer culture that leads people to take on large amounts of debt to purchase luxury goods they can’t really afford, that’s an interesting but entirely separate discussion. Some degree of credit regulation is certainly reasonable, especially to combat genuine cases of fraud and abuse. The Obama radio address that prompted me to write this essay is the kind of heavy-handed, sanctimonious, economy-killing criminalization of legitimate business practices that’s taking our country over the edge of a cliff, and he does this stuff all the time. If we’re going to pull out of the economic nose dive we’ve been in for the past year, we need a vibrant credit industry, loaning money for business formation and consumer purchases.
Look at it this way: lenders offer good interest rates to reliable borrowers, who have a good credit history and can demonstrate the means to pay. They charge higher interest rates to people with shakier credit ratings, who very much desire the benefits that come with having those credit cards. The higher interest rates go a long way toward offsetting the risk of loaning to people who might not repay the loans in a timely manner, or might not repay them at all. Constant late payments and defaults are not logically different than robbing a bank. Credit card companies that offer lower interest rates and friendlier payment terms will naturally attract customers away from companies with less attractive terms – the magic of the free market at work. Banks that make a lot of high-interest, risky loans to shaky customers who default on their balances will eventually drive themselves out of business, unless the government bails them out.
Control for collusion, monopolistic practices, and genuine fraud, and the system works pretty well. The net effect of heavy-handed government intervention will be credit-card companies deciding to make fewer of those risky, high-interest loans, and raising the rates on the rest of us. When have price controls ever done anything except reduce quality and eliminate bargains?
Doctor Zero on May 17, 2009 at 12:32 AM
We paid our balance in full every month. Capital One deposited our payment and didn’t credit our account for 17 days then credited it the day after it was late. Charged late fees interest and upped the interest for their failure to credit a very much on time payment. So just how would the above help?
As others have said most banks moved to Delaware to really sock it to consumers. So this is a Federal problem.
These unscrupulous companies need to be better regulated. These regulations will only help the good ones out there they already are honest in their dealings.
Contracts are worthless if the government doesn’t enforce them. Capital One had no right to hold payments that is unacceptable by anyone. It us unacceptable to offer 0% interest when you have no intention of doing so. It is unacceptable to review an account simply because a consumer asked for a better rate. These practices should be stopped and only the federal government can do so.
Some times I really understand how the completely corrupt Democrats gained power. Seems to me that far too many Republicans are more than willing to allow big companies to screw the bottom 75% of Americans and you don’t win elections by alienating 75% of the people that elect you. This is such a perfect example. I’s sorry but the Credit Card companies brought this upon themselves. They proved them selves to be completely devoid of any kind of sympathy for the 90% of Americans that use their cards. They started by promising to never charge for automatic tellers then sold this lie big time. They now screw the vast majority of Americans with these fees. Of course the rich are exempt from them, and don’t suffer the other problems listed here either. They can actually do something about it.
Steveangell on May 17, 2009 at 1:01 AM