Suddenly, business leaders fear Obama
posted at 12:14 pm on May 15, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
Barack Obama won an extraordinary amount of support from the business world in his presidential campaign, helping to tamp down accusations of redistributionist aims, at least until Joe the Plumber caught Obama off-guard. They campaigned for him, raised money to get him elected, and celebrated when Obama won. Now they’re in a much less celebratory mood after seeing him in action, the AP reports (via The Corner):
Relations between President Barack Obama and U.S. corporate leaders have grown tense in recent weeks, with business groups bristling over his sharp rebukes of lenders and multinational companies in particular.
Executives and trade groups that praised Obama’s outreach during his post-election transition period say they have felt less welcome since he took office in January. More troubling, they say, are his populist-tinged, sometimes acid critiques of certain sectors, including large companies that keep some profits overseas to reduce their U.S. tax burden.
On Thursday in New Mexico, Obama chastised the credit card industry for sharply raising interest rates or fees with hard-to-find notice. He said consumers should be protected from “all kinds of harsh penalties and fees that you never knew about.” Some of the dealings by credit card companies, he said, “are not honest.”
That’s an interesting, and somewhat irrelevant, point to use to support this article. Democrats routinely rail against credit-card companies, who don’t usually react to the provocations. They carry too much clout, for one thing, and usually the government has a limited scope in which to impose policy.
That changed with TARP, however, and the credit companies now have reason to fear the imposition of wide-reaching regulation. But that’s not what worries businessmen, at least not for the most part. The big worry comes from the Obama administration’s disregard for contract law via the TARP leverage they bought with taxpayer money. Chrysler’s senior creditors and their attorneys — many of whom voted for Obama and supported his candidacy with cash — discovered this the hard way when the administration started threatening them with bad publicity via the White House press corps and the “madman theory of the presidency”. George Will called this a “tincture of lawlessness,” which is kind of like saying that Mafia policy rackets are a “tincture of extortion”.
Obama’s attacks on contract law undermine the entire foundation of the private sector, enabled by the bailouts initially hailed by the same people now worried about the White House’s approach to business. On both counts, the Captain Louis Renault award goes to those corporate leaders shocked, shocked! by Barack Obama’s hostility towards the business community. What part of “community organizer” didn’t you guys understand?










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Own it, suckers.
Realist on May 15, 2009 at 12:16 PM
Don’t come to me crying on my shoulder. We tried to tell them all of this before, but they wouldn’t listen.
They made a deal with the devil, now pay up.
tre on May 15, 2009 at 12:17 PM
The part where the community organizer takes his skills and uses them against the same old enemies but with the full power (and then some) of the federal government.
myrenovations on May 15, 2009 at 12:18 PM
All your business are belong to us. – Obama
lorien1973 on May 15, 2009 at 12:18 PM
Did they think “share the wealth” just meant the Middle Class?
kingsjester on May 15, 2009 at 12:18 PM
Anyone in business who voted for this guy for President had to be brain dead. ALL OF HIS socialist intentions were right there in front of ANYONE who cared to look below the smooth teleprompted speeches. Idiots, all of them. They will deserve what they get, but unfortunately a lot of innocent employees will be hurt (of course a lot of them also voted for this guy) before we can fix this mess. It is a sad time for our country.
karenhasfreedom on May 15, 2009 at 12:18 PM
Ha, you get what you vote for. Unfortunately for them they voted for a liar and are just now figuring that out. I don’t feel sorry for any of them.
milwife88 on May 15, 2009 at 12:18 PM
On the other hand, his popularity among despots increases. The “Obama for Secretary General of the UN 2012″ campaign is running just fine.
beatcanvas on May 15, 2009 at 12:19 PM
This was in Atlas Shrugged as well, you know.
lorien1973 on May 15, 2009 at 12:19 PM
I sincerely hope the eyes of the nation are slowly coming open.
It’s amazing to me that every time Obam’ter crosses another outragous line, I always think “THIS time, people will wake up!” And then he crosses another, in a seemingly never-ending cycle.
Something has to give, soon. Its already getting too hard to recognize our country.
JamesLee on May 15, 2009 at 12:19 PM
And it’ll only get worse. After reading Brook’s column in the headlines, it’s obvious that Mr. Obama’s plan sinks or swims based on health care reform whose ‘savings’ are impossible to predict and implausable to expect.
DrW on May 15, 2009 at 12:20 PM
The thing that amazes me about Obama is that he fooled so many moderates. Yes he had the MSM on his side – but Bill Clinton did *exactly* the same thing in 91 – remember his “middle class tax cut”?
Oh, and those Frumites – congratulations you kept Palin out of the VP role. Heckuva job there. Hope you enjoy Obama running your company now and setting your salary.
18-1 on May 15, 2009 at 12:20 PM
When he gets done taxing the daylights out of them, they will all know about socialism. Too damned late.
dogsoldier on May 15, 2009 at 12:20 PM
How does it feel, to be tramped on, by Obama?
And why couldn’t you see, what 48% of us did see, and know?
Makes me wonder if you should be running the business community at all!
I have absolutely no business experience, and I saw this coming, long before November. What’s their excuse?
capejasmine on May 15, 2009 at 12:20 PM
All your business are belong to us. – Obama
lorien1973 on May 15, 2009 at 12:18 PM
man, do i remember that LGF thread. classic!
DrW on May 15, 2009 at 12:21 PM
They’re going own it all right – just not the “they” that the business exec’s were thinking. I love the lack of ownership people take in their actions, businesses included.
SkinnerVic on May 15, 2009 at 12:21 PM
It’s sad that they couldn’t wake up and smell the coffee BEFORE he put the poison in it….
CynicalOptimist on May 15, 2009 at 12:21 PM
It just shows they were bad investors. First, for investing in a car company that anyone that had ten minutes to investigate knew they had bloated union contracts that made profitability difficuly if not impossible. Second, for inveting in Obama’s campaign. Again it took only minutes to investigate his actions to see he is anti-business statist. These guys should never invest anyone’s money again.
WashJeff on May 15, 2009 at 12:22 PM
The real question is now they see how he is going to govern, are they going to re-elect him?
deidre on May 15, 2009 at 12:22 PM
I’d take that deal. Assuming he doesn’t somehow find a way to stay POTUS at the same time, at least we’d get him out of our hair.
Y-not on May 15, 2009 at 12:22 PM
I think they thought that his CO days were behind him. Oopsie!
Mr_Magoo on May 15, 2009 at 12:23 PM
The thing about Bill, and I may be wrong, but I do think he actually had some caring, and concern for the middle class. Obama? Not so much. He doesn’t want classes, he wants equality for the rest of us, and exutation, wealth, and complete power, for himself.
capejasmine on May 15, 2009 at 12:23 PM
Every time I see that photo of Obama I envision George Soros just out of camera view holding a red rubber ball in front of Zero’s face and about to say “Fetch!”.
viking01 on May 15, 2009 at 12:23 PM
That’s the thing… they probably thought Obama was going to raise income tax rates, which they could easily handle with their pay and access to fancy accountants.
They did not think that he would take their companies, cap their salaries and then raise their taxes while taking away their deductions.
myrenovations on May 15, 2009 at 12:23 PM
Finally realizing they’re gonna get their pipes inspected like Joe the Plumber did…
phreshone on May 15, 2009 at 12:23 PM
The businesses that supported this disaster are getting exactly what they deserve. We won’t pull out of this recession until BO is out of office in 2012.
txag92 on May 15, 2009 at 12:23 PM
Did they have wax in their ears when he was campaigning, or were they just drunk on Hope and Change?
sheesh on May 15, 2009 at 12:23 PM
Says it all.
Who’s his mentor now, Mussolini or Chavez?
petefrt on May 15, 2009 at 12:23 PM
We’re ALL going to pay… the only people who aren’t will be The O and Co.
CynicalOptimist on May 15, 2009 at 12:23 PM
People voting against their own best interests always amaze and fascinate me. Blacks especially. Now business? This really is the Twilight Zone.
JAM on May 15, 2009 at 12:24 PM
I’m going to go with, the latter, in your comment.
capejasmine on May 15, 2009 at 12:25 PM
I love it, take the money away from the rich guys and cap their pay and bonuses. That should create work and opportunity. haha what an idiot. I can’t wait to see how many companies start moving out of here. Just like Chrysler employees “Hey BAMA Boy you can leave us alone now we work for Fiat”
Tremmy on May 15, 2009 at 12:25 PM
Read Atlas Shrugged. Business leaders did it there, too. And when things turned sour, they continued to believe it was right anyways.
lorien1973 on May 15, 2009 at 12:26 PM
And then promptly defund the UN once he is in his new position.
WashJeff on May 15, 2009 at 12:26 PM
Here’s an alternative to total Government Health care.
It pains me to see the leaders of the private business licking the shoes of his Obamaness.
Solution:
Leave the system alone.
If any are displaced, replace the COBRA system with a government subsidised alternative if an employer has an inability to pay.
Allow the government to subsidize the premiums already paid by employers into private healthcare systems. There’s your 686B.
Do not do away with HIPPA privacy. That’s a big no-no, Americans!
Allow the government to clean up the dogsh*t that is a/k/a Medicaid (public health care) before it goes sh*tting into the private sector that has thus far, kept this sh*t in check.
Key West Reader on May 15, 2009 at 12:27 PM
This is money, Ed. (Pardon the pun)
The question is, will those business leaders move from fear to loathing to revolt?
Let’s hope they do.
bluelightbrigade on May 15, 2009 at 12:28 PM
Rush,has a women who works at a car dealer,on as I
type!
canopfor on May 15, 2009 at 12:29 PM
Any “business leader” who supported/voted for the idiot messiah should be deemed to friggin’ stupid to run a company by the board. Any reluctance to throw these morons out of positions of responsibility should lead to huge lawsuits against the directors.
Azzwipes.
progressoverpeace on May 15, 2009 at 12:29 PM
You bought him. You own him.
MarkTheGreat on May 15, 2009 at 12:31 PM
Well,Hopey wants to close car dealerships!!
What business is next,on his hit list!!
canopfor on May 15, 2009 at 12:31 PM
They all are reaping what they sowed. I have zero sympathy. I’m hear just waiting for the fire to end so I can rebuild among the ashes.
TheBigOldDog on May 15, 2009 at 12:32 PM
Nice business you have there…………
……….. sure would be a shame if anything happened to it.
Seven Percent Solution on May 15, 2009 at 12:33 PM
That goes double for college profs (esp poli-sci) who name-dropped The One in their classes.
That’s a lot of profs, I know…I know…
bluelightbrigade on May 15, 2009 at 12:33 PM
hmm, maybe with all the car dealers closing, I can pick up some of that service business. Maybe hire a mechanic on the cheap, since they’ll be looking for work now.
Too bad one of the Chrysler dealers is my main Chrysler parts source.
JamesLee on May 15, 2009 at 12:33 PM
This is a bad week for the trolls…kind of like that “Whack-A-Mole” game…stick their head up, and we whack them with a Pelosi, or Obama goof…
right2bright on May 15, 2009 at 12:34 PM
I for got econ, too
bluelightbrigade on May 15, 2009 at 12:34 PM
Told ya so!
But nooooooo, you wouldn’t listen.
Knucklehead on May 15, 2009 at 12:34 PM
The best comment yet IMHO! LOL!
Badger40 on May 15, 2009 at 12:34 PM
Uh, we’re the suckers.
spmat on May 15, 2009 at 12:34 PM
Fear The One.
TheBigOldDog on May 15, 2009 at 12:35 PM
I haven’t seen it mentioned today at HA, but six of the seven major US live insurers are about to receive approx. 22 billion in TARP funds, because like the banks, they have the same toxic assets on their balance sheets.
These insurers probably insure 90% of all people with life insurance, and they are all in the crapper.
Only MetLife says they won’t take the money.
This isn’t exactly a done deal, but it’s imminent. Soon, the gov’t will control most of the insurance business in the US what with AIG and the life insurers. One more industry in the crapper.
JiangxiDad on May 15, 2009 at 12:36 PM
Not in my book. We knew what was coming. We didn’t try to convince ourselves he was something he wasn’t like they did. We are not surprised in the least. They are. They are suckers. We aren’t.
TheBigOldDog on May 15, 2009 at 12:37 PM
So,the bottom line is,Obama is driving business`s out
of America!
canopfor on May 15, 2009 at 12:37 PM
“…it doesn’t take much to see that the problems of 350,000,000 little people don’t amount to a hill of beans in this world.”
Akzed on May 15, 2009 at 12:38 PM
Can’t he just take over this Waffle House?
James on May 15, 2009 at 12:39 PM
Businesses saw Obama as their health care savior. He was going to ‘fix’ health care so business would not have those huge monthly health insurance premiums to pay.
Life would be good. Prosperity…wonderful prosperity
Unfortunately…
Skandia Recluse on May 15, 2009 at 12:39 PM
Funny, their companies are failing and they voted for the wrong guy. Maybe these great titans of the business world are just idiots.
dpierson on May 15, 2009 at 12:39 PM
Maybe this is why I know of someone insured by Farmers Union Ins who missed their car ins payment bcs they were having trouble with $$-it got canceled-then they went back to Farmers with $$ to reinstate the policy & the $%^&$#$ upped the policy by $1000 a year bcs of the lapse in coverage-no other reason. Never even had a CLAIM.
I don’t care if credit card companies do this $hit bcs we can all live without them-but Insurance companies we are forced to deal with. So why can they get away with this stuff, but Obama wants to vilify credit card companies?!
Badger40 on May 15, 2009 at 12:39 PM
Hope and Change!!
canopfor on May 15, 2009 at 12:40 PM
What appalls me is how everyone is disregarding that these dealerships are privately owned enterprises. How does this make sense to reduce the distribution channel? I don’t understand. In addition, no one is looking at the dozens, if not hundreds of people who work for these dealerships, many in above average paying jobs, who are now going to be out of work. AND think of all of the reduced property taxes and sales taxes that are going away, thus hitting municipalities and school districts very hard.
INSANITY!!!!!!!!!! (of course do you think I bought a new Yukon this year to replace my 2008 with 128K miles? Heck no, it runs great and I would rather keep the $45K in the bank right now, as my emergency fund to survive Obambi’s tenure).
karenhasfreedom on May 15, 2009 at 12:41 PM
If they were so gullible that they didn’t see through O’s facade, how the heck are they running anything?
29Victor on May 15, 2009 at 12:41 PM
I wondered how long this would take to happen. It has been much quicker than I expected.
Obama has completely screwed businesses of all sizes. The only ones that may make it are the ones necessary to pick up the pieces. Like mechanics to keep cars running much past their usual life because no one wants, nor can afford, a government made car. Fast food because people can not afford restaurants. But eventually these businesses will be the only ones left to tax.
This ticket to hell has been the express.
ORconservative on May 15, 2009 at 12:41 PM
The Best Part is MSNBC can only talk about Miss California. They cant even find a hot democrat in their own hotbed hahahahaahahaha
Tremmy on May 15, 2009 at 12:42 PM
Eh… I’m still sticking with Mussolini. I think Obama would be fine with private corporations remaining “private” so long as they are run by his cronies… Why do you think Geithner and Spitzer are such heroes to the O-bots?
Obama doesn’t want all out communism (that would make him look mean and Stalin-like). He prefers to be everyone’s favorite Mussolini.
Upstater85 on May 15, 2009 at 12:43 PM
The only thing business execs care about is their bank account. There are few and far “legitimate” business execs out there – Jim Senegal – COSTCO comes to mind.
Now that their pocket books are being hit – and will continue to be hit – they will pay attention, but at what cost?
You guessed it – the workers. Layoffs, increased prices, blackmailing people to leave or take a pay cut will be the new distribution of wealth within companies. And as a result – we all suffer from the supply, demand side. Inferior workers leads to inferior products, while decreasing purchasing power combined with loss of dollar value and inflation, higher taxes and so on and so on.
A death spiral that will only change when Obmama is out, execs lose everything and we start from the ground up.
This country needs an enema…
Odie1941 on May 15, 2009 at 12:43 PM
You’ll enjoy this from Carl Icahn
About CEOs – Anti Darwinian Metaphor – Survival of the Unfittest
TheBigOldDog on May 15, 2009 at 12:44 PM
Heh… yeah… who didn’t see this coming? Wait till he actually does pass Obamacare… Their insurance costs will go through the roof without them even having to offer insurance to their employees…
Upstater85 on May 15, 2009 at 12:44 PM
All this after just 100 days.
Alice said it best:
Welcome to my nightmare
I think you’re gonna like it
I think you’re gonna feel… you belong
A nocturnal vacation
Unnecessary sedation
You want to feel at home ’cause you belong
Welcome to my nightmare
Welcome to my breakdown
I hope I didn’t scare you
That’s just the way we are when we come down
We sweat and laugh and scream here
‘cuz life is just a dream here
You know inside you feel right at home here
Welcome to my breakdown
Whoa
You’re welcome to my nightmare
Yeah
Welcome to my nightmare
I think you’re gonna like it
I think you’re gonna feel… you belong
We sweat laugh and scream here
‘cuz life is just a dream here
You know inside you feel right at home here
Welcome to my nightmare
Welcome to my breakdown
Yeah
patrick neid on May 15, 2009 at 12:45 PM
Yup! Unfortunately. But hey…at least we’ll all be equal. Poor, but equal. UGH!!!
They probably still think Palin is the one who said she could see Russia from her house. Anyone that didn’t look at the issues, then the policies of the candidates, and do some research, doesn’t have a soap box to gripe on, in my opinion.
capejasmine on May 15, 2009 at 12:45 PM
Actually, I had a thought about this earlier today…what does it tell you about the relationship between the manufacturer and the dealers when choking off your sales points is seen as a prudent fiscal move?
James on May 15, 2009 at 12:45 PM
whoops, my 2003 Yukon (see 12:41 posting)
karenhasfreedom on May 15, 2009 at 12:45 PM
In other words, if I have life insurance with an insurance company who took TARP funds and I die, my kids will get 27 cents on the dollar for the $200,000 life insurance policy I have cause Obama said so?
Cool/
Knucklehead on May 15, 2009 at 12:45 PM
Boy,I hope Obama doesn`t consider the US Military
a business!!
canopfor on May 15, 2009 at 12:45 PM
Sheeple. What idiots.
Mr. Joe on May 15, 2009 at 12:45 PM
Obama is just getting warmed up. Wait until he wins a second term in 2012. The business groups and investors won’t know what hit them!
sarahpalinfan99 on May 15, 2009 at 12:46 PM
I am thinking of starting up a junk yard to sell off metals. With all of those cars in supply – I imagine a dealer about to close would be ok getting .20 cents on the dollar. Of course it will be incorporated in Ireland, whereas China and the EU can buy up steel, nickel, cadmium, etc. for cheap, cheap, cheap.
Odie1941 on May 15, 2009 at 12:47 PM
Let me understand this. They sold their souls and now they’re surprised to see the devil show up to collect?
Brilliant!
SKYFOX on May 15, 2009 at 12:48 PM
I almost posted this very same thing just a few days ago — on what topic I can’t exactly remember. Seems like any topic applies!
BigD on May 15, 2009 at 12:48 PM
Heh… I guess people like the UAW just want to fill then dig holes over and over again…
Upstater85 on May 15, 2009 at 12:48 PM
Healing that kills….All Hail!
dmann on May 15, 2009 at 12:49 PM
you HOPED for CHANGE and got it…..now ante up and Pay twice as much tax as before and enjoy it!
IDIOTS!!!!
SDarchitect on May 15, 2009 at 12:49 PM
Wow, a caller is saying that a lot of these dealerships will have Japanese companies lining up to rebrand their dealerships. Interesting, PERMANENT loss of US based automobiles. What fricking idiot thinks closing these dealerships that are MAKING MONEY??????!!!!!!!!!
I just don’t understand how this helps Chrysler or GM.
karenhasfreedom on May 15, 2009 at 12:50 PM
These willfully blind dupes deserve every bit of self-inflicted hardship that comes thier way.
The rest of the non-Obama voting nation does not, however.
chalons on May 15, 2009 at 12:51 PM
So maybe there is a cure for stupid, after all. Too bad it’s looking like too little, too late . . .
califcon on May 15, 2009 at 12:51 PM
The irony is that by electing Obama, we are approaching the day when everyone can look out their window and see the USSR.
SPCOlympics on May 15, 2009 at 12:52 PM
I can’t say I have any particular info on the auto or home insurers. And I don’t have any problem with insurers cancelling/amending policies for non-payment of premiums.
(Here in NY, I believe it is the law that the insurer must send you a cancellation letter for non-payment and you have 30 days in which to re-instate at the original terms. So I suspect each state has diff. rules.)
Insurance companies are essentially banks. They take in premiums (like deposits) and buy various securities with them (like crappy mortgages on now nearly worthless properties.) The liabilities are the policies they have to pay off on. While the insurer(bank) could be making money at the moment (more premiums coming in than policies paid out,) their total liabilities could exceed their now diminished asset value, thus making them insolvent. I think/fear that’s where we’re at.
JiangxiDad on May 15, 2009 at 12:52 PM
Heh.
progressoverpeace on May 15, 2009 at 12:53 PM
But Colin Powell said people want more government in their lives…
sarahpalinfan99 on May 15, 2009 at 12:55 PM
Yep the Japanese Car makers are looking at google maps to see where they can sell the hybrid prius to a million more american idiots. “look at this one, I have a business plan just change the sign to Toyota, make millions”
Tremmy on May 15, 2009 at 12:55 PM
Idiots!! – Watch as their business’s get slowly crushed to death under the Obama bus….
Idiots!! – For believing a Marxist!!
Idiots!! – For knuckling under to unions!!
Idiots!! – One and all – from the banking sector to the automotive industry.
When are business people going to wake up??
Or do they all want to work for the government??
Do YOU want to become a slave to a Marxist government??
Idiots!!
izoneguy on May 15, 2009 at 12:56 PM
Business people generally have my great respect, but lets face it, a good # of them threw in with Ochavez and helped him bury McCain-Palin by donating heavily to Ochavez’s campaign. To those business people I say:
bwahahahahaha. love it!
james23 on May 15, 2009 at 12:57 PM
Anyone happen to see Beck interview good old Fritz, the Prez/CEO of GM yesterday? Beck admits he’s a spokesman for GM at the beginning of the interview, but Fritz sounded scripted in every bogus answer he gave.
And Beck didn’t challenge him. Beck blew it big time yesterday.
Knucklehead on May 15, 2009 at 12:57 PM
What we need is more moderation. – GOP.
People want more government in their lives. Not less. – Colin Powell.
lorien1973 on May 15, 2009 at 12:57 PM
Life insurance policies pretty much have a 30 day grace period for full re-instatement. I don’t know about auto insurance, I didn’t take that insurance course when I was thinking about starting an insurance agency, before i started another company instead. Glad I went in the different direction. (My company was only one of 43 that went public in 2008). We are doing it IN SPITE of who occupies the White House. We are treading very carefully and staying under the radar.
karenhasfreedom on May 15, 2009 at 12:57 PM
Pride before the fall.
elduende on May 15, 2009 at 12:58 PM
Heh, until the checks run out.
izoneguy on May 15, 2009 at 12:59 PM
Obama said we all have to sacrifice. I had come to believe that I wouldn’t be getting SS or Medicare in spite of paying in for 30-40 years, but I did think my life insurance policies would be good, and not subject to gov’t intervention. I actually have a premium bill due for my life insurance with Prudential that I have been sitting on to see how this would play out. Reportedly, they are one of the recipients of TARP.
Another interesting ins. story: For business reasons, I am forced/required to buy a particular type of insurance. The only two companies that offer it in my state are AIG and and subsidiary of Europe’s Zurich Financial. Both are wards of the state, effectively bankrupt in my opinion if not for massive gov’t intervention. I dutifully paid my enormous premium for insurance for which there is a good chance of it not being there if I need it.
I wonder what the health of our home and auto insurers really are, and whether we’re truly insured at all. One thing we now know for certain, you can’t trust the regulators or the rating agencies.
JiangxiDad on May 15, 2009 at 1:00 PM
If we were not FORCED to have everything insured by the state & fed govts, then I could care less.
But ins companies are making it increasingly harder for us little people to stay in business, have cars, etc.
For instance, my personal experience with our farm & ranch insurance:
We had the farm & ranch policy with one insurance co for at least 25 years. There is a wood stove in our entryway for heat.
They never had a problem with it.
Suddenly, last year they canceled our policy with no warning bcs of the wood stove. We have never had a fire or any other incident involving the wood stove.
I do not have a problem with a company insuring something, but when this company suddenly decided to drop us, it brought down a lot of hard ship upon us to come up with advanced payment etc for another insurer.
We already pay way too much for our policy-& have never had a claim.
But bcs insurance companies base what you pay on your credit score, as well as other liabilities, people get screwed one way or another.
This is the problem I have with insurance companies-their responsibility in some areas is quite lacking.
Badger40 on May 15, 2009 at 1:01 PM
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