Cap-and-trade: Imperialism of the populous states?
posted at 12:55 pm on May 15, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
We’ve reviewed Barack Obama’s cap-and-trade policies from a number of angles, but Governor Mitch Daniels of Indiana has a unique analysis that bears consideration. He sees cap-and-trade not just as an overall tax burden on the energy consumer, although he certainly agrees that it is, nor as a penalty for fossil-fuel producers, which Daniels also sees. Daniels suggests that the real reason for cap-and-trade is for liberal, coastal states to suck tax dollars out of the Rust Belt in a case of interstate imperialism:
Quite simply, it looks like imperialism. This bill would impose enormous taxes and restrictions on free commerce by wealthy but faltering powers — California, Massachusetts and New York — seeking to exploit politically weaker colonies in order to prop up their own decaying economies. Because proceeds from their new taxes, levied mostly on us, will be spent on their social programs while negatively impacting our economy, we Hoosiers decline to submit meekly.
The Waxman-Markey legislation would more than double electricity bills in Indiana. Years of reform in taxation, regulation and infrastructure-building would be largely erased at a stroke. In recent years, Indiana has led the nation in capturing international investment, repatriating dollars spent on foreign goods or oil and employing Americans with them. Waxman-Markey seems designed to reverse that flow. “Closed: Gone to China” signs would cover Indiana’s stores and factories.
Our state’s share of national income has been slipping for decades, but it is offset in part by living costs some 8% lower than the national average. Doubled utility bills for low-income Hoosiers would be an especially cruel consequence of the Waxman bill. Forgive us for not being impressed at danglings of welfare-like repayments to some of those still employed, with some fraction of the dollars extracted from our state.
And for what? No honest estimate pretends to suggest that a U.S. cap-and-trade regime will move the world’s thermometer by so much as a tenth of a degree a half century from now. My fellow citizens are being ordered to accept impoverishment for a policy that won’t save a single polar bear.
Some Republicans have suggested Daniels as a potential presidential candidate in 2012, when his current term will expire. Daniels throws a little bit of cold water on that notion in the lead, saying that “I’m not a candidate for any office — now or ever again,” but this may build some momentum for a Draft Daniels movement. If nothing else, it demonstrates a willingness to fight back that has sometimes eluded other Republicans.
The big secret of this is that Indiana will get bankrupted more by the cap-and-trade system forcing producers out of the state, which will mean that the government won’t get those revenues anyway. This is yet another demonstration of the administration’s reliance on static analysis for tax policy. Daniels correctly notes that the policy will hammer Indiana’s economy, which means that tax revenues will fall in general, but also that less energy will get used — which means less revenue from cap-and-trade. The rise of unemployment in the state will eventually require more federal dollars flowing into Indiana than flowing out of it, and the coastal states will eventually have to subsidize Hoosiers instead of the opposite.
Blowback
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Waxman is trying to save the world, fuck Indiana.
GarandFan on May 15, 2009 at 1:02 PM
I’m a native Texan and moved to Lafayette a few years ago. I am proud to say “My man Mitch.”
He gets dumped on a lot, especially by liberals in the state, but he does know business.
kybowexar on May 15, 2009 at 1:02 PM
Indiana doesn’t have much of an economy, as a good friend of mine has pointed out to me. People are moving out of there in mass droves… almost like Michigan. And the unemployement and welfare is becoming toxic to that State.
Can someone who lives in Inidiana tell me what Gov. Daniels is doing about the illegals as well?
upinak on May 15, 2009 at 1:03 PM
FINALLY!!!! A member of the GOP that has a pair of stones to tell the truth!!! Well done, Governor Daniels, well done!!!
Hey GOP?!? THIS is the example to follow!
Agent of the Cross on May 15, 2009 at 1:03 PM
Another brovo to Indiana for pass a law that shields teachers from lawsuits against teachers disciplining students.
Mitch also had a saying when he started his first term, “If you can find it in the yellow pages, the government should not provide the good or service.”
Final praise of sanity of IN. My borther lives in IN and has a home that is a tad bigger than mine in IL. His property tax ~$6400. My Property tax ~$10,200.
GO Mitch…may IL never infect IN.
WashJeff on May 15, 2009 at 1:04 PM
I’ve been fearing this Cap & Trade Bill for awhile now. It is a monstrous imposition on the American population.
As far as propping up the failing socialistic states – let them fail. Let them dig their way out of the hole they’ve willingly voted in for themselves.
vapig on May 15, 2009 at 1:05 PM
Its encouraging to see that there are some intelligent people in politics.
cjs1943 on May 15, 2009 at 1:06 PM
Holy mackerel. If you don’t mind my asking, how big is your house?
capitalist piglet on May 15, 2009 at 1:07 PM
The problem is, they then move out of the failing state into former-red states (like NC) and “fail” those too.
LastRick on May 15, 2009 at 1:08 PM
Has Gov. Daniels brought up the 10th amendment issue for his state like numerous other states have? Would this stop big brother in this cap and trade?
L
letget on May 15, 2009 at 1:08 PM
The ignorance of the left is profound in this one. Since it’s both common sense and common knowledge that idustrialized countries are cleaner than third world cesspools why, for the so-called sake of the planet, would any of these fools want to turn us into the very cesspool that would add to the planets woes?
vapig on May 15, 2009 at 1:10 PM
EU carbon offsets are trading at their lowest point since that scheme was installed, because of decreased business activity during this depression. Daniels’ analysis reflects reality.
Spain lost 2.2 jobs for every green job created between 2001 and 2007, accourding a study from the University of Madrid. Betwen higher taxation, higher energy costs and restrictive regulation, “old” businesses have failed or moved faster than “green” ones, and most of the green ones were contstruction jobs, ending once the wind mills were finished. It is economic suicide.
A strong private sector scares governments who seek power. Weakening it is in the interest of politicians who seek power. Hence the impossible spending plans of Democrats and nationalization of industries.
In CA it will take a complete train wreck to change the direction the state has taken. The beast has to be starved. We are at a crossroads.
Harry Schell on May 15, 2009 at 1:10 PM
All will not be good in the energy producing states if cap & trade gets imposed by fiat. This is the kind of reckless abandon that will kill the democratic party.
I think the republicans are giving then enough rope to hang themselves.
You will see a real revolt. People will stop paying electric bills (or at least the cap & trade part) energy companies will shut people off and millions upon millions of lawsuits will flood the federal government….
What will happen is that energy companies will idle plants and get the ire up the taxpayers to the point where they will want to mount heads on a wall – in no particular order:
OBAMA
AL GORE
HENRY WAXMAN
LISA JACKSON
izoneguy on May 15, 2009 at 1:12 PM
It’s becoming clearer to me, that the logical conclusion of the Obama administration, will be the secession of the “red” states from the union.
If the republicans don’t retake the House in 2010, it will be inevitable.
Rebar on May 15, 2009 at 1:13 PM
Egad! Don’t I know it! I live in Virginia and the population of the failed socialist state of Maryland have been moving here in droves – and bringing their politikkks with them.
Perhaps a law should be passed that keeps socialists statebound.
/I’m kidding – but I really wish these people would be forced to stay and fix the problem they created instead of spreading their desease to other healthy states!
vapig on May 15, 2009 at 1:13 PM
http://www.seattlepi.com/opinion/211080_sciglianomoney.html
It’s funny because Red Staters like to portray themselves as “rugged individualists” when in reality they suck more off the government teat than anyone.
AJB on May 15, 2009 at 1:14 PM
The train’s moving pretty fast out in CA and it may wreck as soon as next week.
If and when those tax propositions on the ballot fail, it’ll be interesting to see if Arnold continues to play “chicken” by threatening to cut services such as fire protection and releasing tons of prisoners.
teke184 on May 15, 2009 at 1:17 PM
~3100 Sq. Ft.
WashJeff on May 15, 2009 at 1:17 PM
Indiana is full of bitter clingers. Who gives a crap about them.
lorien1973 on May 15, 2009 at 1:19 PM
OH Yeah it’s hilarious! Did the study include those welfare recipients who have come from blue states? Did the study also include illegal aliens that they are forced to “service?”
I bet that would change those false stats real fast!
Spare me!
vapig on May 15, 2009 at 1:20 PM
The urban lifestyle: a more efficient allocation of the resources necessary to enable the modern American quality of life than rural living. Such disparities in federal revenue vs. expenditure is an outgrowth of that fact. Oh well.
ernesto on May 15, 2009 at 1:21 PM
Other bitter clingers! Careful! Your intolerance is showing.
vapig on May 15, 2009 at 1:22 PM
AJB is also ignoring the inconvienient fact that most big money is in cities… and the biggest cities are in the Blue states, with the exception of places like Houston. I’ll bet that rural New York is a net “reciepient” too. As is Massachusetts outside of Boston.
Tell you what: Get the federal spending AND the federal laws out of my life. I’ll bet you my rural Utah town won’t have to have nearly so much “government aid” if it didn’t have to do all those government required things.
Vanceone on May 15, 2009 at 1:23 PM
Is it bad for me to say that I hope the people who suffer the most are those in PA, VA, and OH (all coal producing states) who voted for Obama? I will weep no tears for them. I guess I’m a bad person.
SouthernGent on May 15, 2009 at 1:24 PM
This calls for a 2012 presidential electoral map showing not merely a sea of red but an ocean of red.
Wake up, GOP.
BuckeyeSam on May 15, 2009 at 1:25 PM
That opinion piece is over 4 years old, and the author did not furnish any links to the “facts” he cites.
Fail.
RushBaby on May 15, 2009 at 1:27 PM
Ohioans certainly deserve it. I hope we can somehow make amends by electing Kasich governor and Portman senator in 2010 and by turning red in 2010 for a worthwhile GOP presidential candidate–all before we turn into Michigan.
BuckeyeSam on May 15, 2009 at 1:28 PM
It never ceases to amaze me that Democrats, who govern, get their states into such financial trouble, there is no light at the end of their tunnels. And the voters, who continually vote for this, are no less, to blame.
So now, the rest of us are supposed to suffer, so they can become fiscal again? And we know they won’t. They’ll spend, and waste that money, just like they’ve always done.
I like this Governor Daniels, and what he had to say, and how he said it. No dancing around, just tell it like it is. I hope he reconsiders a run for President. However, seeing what’s happened to our government, and how corrrupt it has become, I dont’ blame him, for wanting no part in it. That said though….if they all walk away because of this, we’ll have nothing left, but the truly corrupt running this country. :(
capejasmine on May 15, 2009 at 1:28 PM
The article was from 2005 and his highlighted quote was dated from 2003. Not exactly current affairs.
Oldnuke on May 15, 2009 at 1:28 PM
What’s more funny? Those who keep on voting people who add more money to the teet and then complain about it. Or those who vote against those people but will take the money when given it?
lorien1973 on May 15, 2009 at 1:29 PM
The left has been exploiting Middle America for the benefit of urban Coastal America for decades. Cap-and-tax is just the latest, and probably most egregious example.
Kudos to Gov. Daniels for resisting it.
petefrt on May 15, 2009 at 1:30 PM
Cap and trade won’t bother people for long.
One winter and they’ll all freeze to death.
snickelfritz on May 15, 2009 at 1:31 PM
The silver lining to this is that we’d then have a boom in construction and we’d have plenty of room to house all those Gitmo detainees (with a special room reserved for the Speaker, of course).
SPCOlympics on May 15, 2009 at 1:31 PM
Indiana is full of bitter clingers. Who gives a crap about them.
lorien1973 on May 15, 2009 at 1:19 PM
We have to be bitter clingers, it’s state law… (inside joke for B&T fans)
Hey, so why should we give a crap about you people who are overpopulating the coasts. You need to reduce your emissions because there’s so damn many of you. And you are free to do it however you want, as long as I DONT PAY FOR IT.
Keith_Indy on May 15, 2009 at 1:32 PM
Let the coal companies refuse to produce or deliver a single lump of coal.
Let the natural gas folks turn off the gas at the Whitehouse.
Let the natural consequences of stupidity begin!
Doubt that Obama could survive a cold winter week without carbon. The freezing masses would conclude that The One is just too cool (pun intended) to lead us any longer.
The age of Obama = America’s new ice age.
The Rock on May 15, 2009 at 1:38 PM
The urban lifestyle: a more efficient allocation of the resources necessary to enable the modern American quality of life than rural living.
ernesto on May 15, 2009 at 1:21 PM
Yeah, cause nothing says efficient modern American life as hours long commutes on 12 lane divided highways as you fear for your life from some road rage gun fire because you never know when you’re going to cut the wrong person off.
Keith_Indy on May 15, 2009 at 1:38 PM
So efficient that coastal urban centers are looking to sock flyover country with massive taxes to support them. Right.
Karl on May 15, 2009 at 1:39 PM
Egad! We only pay 1/2 that much in taxes for 2500+acres of our ag land + the homestead!
We Red Staters here in ND are a mix of hypocrites & non-hypocrites.
I do not get welfare-though I live as though I need it. That is bcs small family agriculture is a losing business, but a way of LIFE for those of us who do it. And we sacrifice the reality of real profits for it, willingly.
There are a lot of people who come to ND from out of state who are nothing but free-loading welfare queens/kings. They come for our high benefits & low cost of living.
So while I live in a Red State that receives lots of Fed tax $, I am no welfare queen.
You also have to realize not many people live here in the 1st place. I imagine a lot of fed $$ goes for roads, education, infrastructure in general like bridges & communication technology.
Ag may also receive quite a bit of Fed $$ for farm programs, too, which I’m not totally in favor of, but if you got rid of farm payments without actually doing something about the way food commodities are traded, you’d end up with nothing but big factory farming (which is not always bad, but mostly bad IMHO) & getting the majority of your food from overseas.
And as for IN-my G-ma & other family lives in Seymour, Mooresville, etc & it is becoming an economic cesspool.
The illegals are even leaving (at least that’s a good thing).
Badger40 on May 15, 2009 at 1:39 PM
Meanwhile, Obama turns the theromstat up yet another 2 degrees, to 84. Why? Well he’s from Hawaii, and because he won!
capejasmine on May 15, 2009 at 1:40 PM
Would love to know on what planet Massachusetts (home to recession-proof biotech that helps us live longer), New York (the world’s financial center) and California (ever heard of Silicon Valley?) are the faltering powers. They are all industries where America has an edge, where no jobs get exported because no one is better at these things than us. Yes, the whole system is faltering but it would look a lot worse without these places.
Greef on May 15, 2009 at 1:42 PM
Actually, I’m thinking “There will be another boom of ammo sales” and one particular joke from a Naked Gun movie will become reality.
The joke in question has to do with shooting and killing a gang member being a misdemeanor and that the offender can just mail in a $75 fine.
teke184 on May 15, 2009 at 1:43 PM
Realistically, this is what Washington does all the time, and so do the large Democratic cities in each state. They are the economic vampires, sucking the life blood from the rest of the state.
drjohn on May 15, 2009 at 1:45 PM
I’m from Indiana and I had to blink a couple times and refocus when I saw Mitch Daniels’ picture on here. He’s My Man Mitch too.
He does get slammed here in Indiana quite a bit and I think it’s mostly because people made fun of the “My Man Mitch” slogan. Ask for specifics and you get blank stares and sound bites in return.
On election night I was following an interactive map and it showed state by state, county by county of which were going red or blue. Indiana went blue this time thanks to the colleges. We have IU, Purdue, Indiana State, Vincennes, Evansville, Ball State, Ivy Tech, NOTRE DAME, and a handful of other private colleges. Get away from the colleges and Gary/East Chicago, and the state was red. It’s really that simple.
Mitch Daniels doesn’t have THAT much to say nationally, so I’m impressed that he’s saying something now. It made my ears perk up.
Oink on May 15, 2009 at 1:45 PM
If there is a silver lining to the ongoing market collapse one benefit is these onerous economic policies of the greens will never come to pass.
While they continue to talk about them, if the market goes to new lows they will never happen.
patrick neid on May 15, 2009 at 1:45 PM
Agreed.
Urban lifestyles are actually inefficient in a lot of ways.
Without us rural people, you would wither & die for lack of food, water, etc.
Think about where your food, fiber, & industrial resources come from. We give it to you.
We make it possible for you to live in urbania & sweet ignorant bliss of the real world beyond your 4 lane highways & Starbucks & McDonalds.
Urban centers suck resources DRY. They steal water for instance from rural communities who do not have enough voices or clout to save them from being pillaged.
Look at how CA,NV & CO steal water from states like UT & NE.
These parasitic urban areas are a bane to the realities of life.
Real environmentalism is what is needed-not wacko stuff. More common sense in planning urban centers is needed bcs let’s face it: you suck all of the Ogalalla aquifer in the central plains dry-what are you gonna flush you toilet in Denver with?
Badger40 on May 15, 2009 at 1:45 PM
Try owning a 1700 sq ft townhouse.. and paying “now” 3900 as it was upped a few weeks ago, and the sad part is I just had it lowered since they screwed up and said we had things we didn’t (like an extra bedroom).
I feel their pain.
upinak on May 15, 2009 at 1:47 PM
If you want to have teachers of PE and Driver’s Ed making $100K, this is the sacrifice you have to make. Since I have only two kids (4 and 7 currently), if I stay in my house until the graduate high school, I will have paid $50K in tuition for each of their four years in high school.
It is these taxes and other things that makes me cling to my position that vouchers does not go far enough. All schools should be private. Government can provide scholarship money that parents can use to send their kids to the school of their choice.
WashJeff on May 15, 2009 at 1:47 PM
Good for Daniels. Cap-and-trade as a means of propitiating Gaia is actually a move well beyond mere imperialism.
Organizing humanity against “climate change” is global religious universalism, a better armed and bureaucratized version of Unity or Submission. It reminds me of nothing so much as the Baal worshipers on Mount Carmel, reaching a frenzy in rote incantation as they tried to prove they had the secret to controlling the natural world.
J.E. Dyer on May 15, 2009 at 1:49 PM
So the Hoosiers will secede also?
Welcome Aboard.
It begins.
HondaV65 on May 15, 2009 at 1:50 PM
Which is a big reason why the President is so eager to payoff the unions. As long as the union bosses are in his pocket, we aren’t likely to see a shutdown of any industry.
SPCOlympics on May 15, 2009 at 1:51 PM
Uh-clearly I made an error in deciding to be a HS science teacher. I don’t get paid a 1/3 that much.
What in the hell kind of school is that those people with worthless degrees get paid that?!
I do think vouchers are a better deal if the govt is gonig to insist upon staying in the education business.
I would prefer no fed govt involved in education at all.
But I understand most kids would remain stupid.
Homeschooling is not just for religious nuts, BTW. I advocate it for everyone who can. Home school co-ops would be a really good idea for some, too.
But you are one poor SOB you’ve had to make such a choice. I can sympathize & only thank God that I wasn’t in that boat.
Badger40 on May 15, 2009 at 1:52 PM
Sorry, Mitch, I seem to recall that these economically poor Hoosiers you’re worried about voted for our nitwit liberal President, O’Bonehead.
Oh, wait – it was the college professors at ND, Purdue and Indiana, ghetto blacks in Gary, and lake shore liberals from Michigan City to the Michigan border. My mistake.
Jaibones on May 15, 2009 at 1:53 PM
Luckily, my pathetic 1976 double-wide 1000 sq foot home is ag exempt from separate taxes bcs it’s ranch location central.
On one note-I believe our Gov Hoeven just signed on for Veterans to be exempt from taxes on their homes.
I think this is quite appropriate.
Badger40 on May 15, 2009 at 1:55 PM
I strongly suspect that, when push comes to shove, the states involved with such a movement would be the McCain states from last election plus Indiana, North Carolina, and possibly Florida.
The ringleaders would likely be the states with a lot of natural resources such as oil or coal that would be affected by Obama’s Cap-and-Trade plans and/or other environmentalism plans. (This would be Texas, Louisiana, Alaska, Oklahoma, West Virginia, etc.)
teke184 on May 15, 2009 at 1:56 PM
centryt on May 15, 2009 at 1:59 PM
Property taxes should not exist. How can anyone that pays property taxes say they truly own their home? I only own my home if I pay the government each year, so I guess I am leasing it. What other property is like this? Cars? No. Furniture? No.
WashJeff on May 15, 2009 at 2:01 PM
Alaska has that. But you have to have served a certain amount to aquire that Tax Exemption. I don’t qualify.
But the BF does. The tax exemption is 150K per one house, which may be changed. Which would include 150K on any and all exsisting homes… as we are thinking about building a cabin on 5 acres he has. And I am thinking about putting him on my land title for he can exempt me as well.
upinak on May 15, 2009 at 2:02 PM
Maybe for now-I got a feeling you Hoosiers are going to be absorbed by the mindless blue cooperative.
Indianapolis is already an ulcerated sore.
Every year I visit & that state’s urban & city centers get more & more ugly-physically & politically (the mind set of your fellow city Hoosiers).
Badger40 on May 15, 2009 at 2:03 PM
Actually, cap-and-trade will finally convince the evil industrialists to start using the unicorn powered cold fusion plants that they have been hiding from us. Everything will be just fine.
tommylotto on May 15, 2009 at 2:05 PM
Heh, Heh…. New York, Chicago, Detroit, Philadelphia, Boston….
Without heat these will be nasty places to live in the winter.
At least in Texas we will not freeze to death. The summers are brutal here
but I can take that over the cold anyday.
izoneguy on May 15, 2009 at 2:06 PM
I so agree with getting rid of property taxes.
They are such a burden to us. We find it increasingly more difficult to pay $5,000+/year in our business.
It may sound like chump change for some of you, but that’s $5,000+ extra a year I could spend on fixing my ‘home’ which is in DIRE need of all major repairs.
And while we’re at it, let’s get rid of the DEATH tax.
A more onerous tax I’ve never seen.
You must really trust your BF! I do hope it’s for forever! :)
Don’t mind me-I’m extremely cynical when it comes to men!
Badger40 on May 15, 2009 at 2:07 PM
Well you two are still gonna be hearing from me if this goes through.
Here in ND we had a bone a$$ cold winter & it still doesn’t feel like it’s over-hard freeze tonight in the lower 20s expected.
We just couldn’t afford what it was taking to heat our home with propane & so we use our old smokey wood stove for heat (the river along with lots of dead trees is right outside our door).
Badger40 on May 15, 2009 at 2:09 PM
AJB
Could it be that Red States (Traditionally farm states) recieve gov’t farm subsidies that keep the price low for food buyers in all states? Farm states are also magnets of illegal immigration. Another heavy cost to the federal gov’t.
MichiganMatt on May 15, 2009 at 2:10 PM
Texas here too, and I’m the opposite. I can always put on another layer of clothes, but I can’t get more nekkid, than nekkid! LOL
capejasmine on May 15, 2009 at 2:10 PM
Blackmail or should I say CoalMail???
States with oil, natural gas and coal should start stockpiling these resources.
They should deny selling to Kalifornia, New York and DC….
Let them come and try and take these resources will they are freezing their asses off….
Or we sell cash on the barrel head….no credit will be accepted…
That alone should make the late great state of Kalifornia seize up….
izoneguy on May 15, 2009 at 2:10 PM
That’s what the cement pond is fer….Hee Hee!!!
izoneguy on May 15, 2009 at 2:11 PM
Hah! I didn’t know Dutch Leonard was still alive. He was a professor of mine at the Kennedy School way back in the late 70s. Part of a genius faculty who told us repeatedly that we were in an “age of limits,” that Reagan’s tax cuts would never work, and we needed to get used to scarcity, high unemployment and high gas prices.
rockmom on May 15, 2009 at 2:12 PM
Well he and I are on the same page. We have both been totally screwed over in marriages. I don’t think he would do anything like that to me and I sure wouldn’t do anything like that to him. The been there done that, where is my t-shirt story.
This isn’t major property either, this is his cabin property and my cabin property. We both are very consciencous of money right now. And to keep them, so we are trying to consolidate. Besides… both of our property is over 400 miles away from each other. So if we want to hunt or fish in different places, we can go to either.
We aren’t getting married anytime soon… that isn’t something I am in a hurry for, and neither is he.
upinak on May 15, 2009 at 2:13 PM
FIFY.
This should further ensure their self reliance.
I love the idea.
Badger40 on May 15, 2009 at 2:13 PM
Here is some more fun numbers from the glorious county of C[r]ook (Have pilliow below jaw). THese are some number from my family’s business locations:
- 15sq. ft. building in a not so nice town => $100K (which we are fighting since it increased from $54K the previous year).
- 13sq. ft. building in a decent “working” class town => $56K.
- 14sq. ft. building in Rev. Jerimiah Wright’s new home town => $54K.
At least I am hearing on the news breaks during Rush’s show that Illinois’s income tax increase may be in trouble.
And the US wanted a politician from IL…jeeesshh!
WashJeff on May 15, 2009 at 2:13 PM
rockmom on May 15, 2009 at 2:13 PM
Now this is too delicious to pass up! Study says that lead pollution in the air during the 70′ and 80′s helped curb “global warming”!!! The eco-freaks have done it again. Unintended consquence of helping clean the the air? Destroying the Earth. God love ‘em.
SouthernGent on May 15, 2009 at 2:15 PM
I wish you luck with all of that.
I have found with marriage 3rd time’s a charm ;)
Our hunting & fishing is certainly not as glamorous as what’s up in AK by a long stretch, but I thank God every day I can still do those things right outside my front door (& hoping our nosy local lady play-strictly-by-the-rules game warden isn’t watching my house through her binoculars.
The pheasants we had in Feb were awesome!
Badger40 on May 15, 2009 at 2:16 PM
I call that carbon recycling. Burn those tree and send that CO2 back in the air so the trees can consume it.
WashJeff on May 15, 2009 at 2:16 PM
I am still rubbing my jaw bcs I don’t have a pillow in my classroom.
Dear God in heaven! That is the most outrageous thing I have heard in a week!
You are officially in my list of people to pray for!
Badger40 on May 15, 2009 at 2:18 PM
SO true! Try to talk sometime to a tree-hugger in Southern California about how great is lifestyle would be without LA taking all the water from the Central Valley. Most of urban California is built on desert land. Millions of latte liberals drinking stolen water every day. One of the most beautiful places that ever existed in America, the Hetch Hetchy Valley, was destroyed with a hideous dam in order to provide water for San Francisco.
rockmom on May 15, 2009 at 2:19 PM
You two need to get your butts up to Alaska. The city prop taxes are absurd. The State prop taxes aren’t so bad. I pay on 5 acres maybe 400 a year.. but I do not have a “house” on it yet. And even then it will only cost max around 1200.
upinak on May 15, 2009 at 2:19 PM
The divide between producers and manufacturers and states vs federal has existed since the beginning of this country.
Factor in intrastate and interstate commerce laws.. and well its the 18th century all over again.
They were also the backbone of the Revolutionary War and the Civil War in America.
2012 is going to be interesting for so, so many reasons…
Odie1941 on May 15, 2009 at 2:19 PM
Badger… look into Talkeetna. You would love it and they have some of the nicest schools. If you can deal with ND winters.. Alaska wouldn’t be bad at all.
upinak on May 15, 2009 at 2:21 PM
We here in Mississippi have been fighting Entergy for years! And I would be willing to bet the dwellers of red-states did NOT support this type of a move. We did have one moron of a Dem governor before Haley, and I believe he was in power in 2003. My point is that the voters here do not support this at all.
We are “rugged individuals” just like those in blue states are “rugged individuals”. At no time did any of us red-staters take on the mantle of “Lightworker”, the Ones you all have been waiting for, or the “Messiah”. In other words we never claimed to be perfect. However, some monies given to the red states was generated by some nutbag Congress peoples who are getting voted out of office. I give you the 2006 and 2008 elections. If there was not a solid, principled candidate who would stop the spending; we either did not vote or quite frankly supported a Democrat who resemble a Blue Dog. At least the GOP red state voter was trying to do something about the spending. Also, many of these red states had a tremendous amount of illegals in their states and these illegals drained the state coffers to the point federal dollars were needed in order for the states to stay afloat.
Some states like mine also managed to elect some real stinkers as political leaders. To assign something like this to GOP dominated, or trending states without examining WHO sought the money is not totally painting an accurate picture.
But since I usually suspect anything coming out of Seattle; I took the time to read this article to make sure my suspicions of such clap trap assertions were correct. This article in NO WAY is remotely fair minded, or correct on the assertions. It is a biased article with an agenda to manipulate, or warp the data. SHOCKER! The author apparently wanted nothing more than to sound intelligent, and at the same time find another way to trash the heartland. Imagine that! A liberal wanting to assault regular Americans with principles! Selective data picking, and not placing ALL the information on the table is just another way Democrats try to fuzzy the minds of the voters.
By the way, notice it is red-states not nearly in as much trouble as CA and MA! Snarky comments about “rugged individuals” no matter where there live is also a reason many states are now currently seeking any and all ways to enforce the 10th Amendment. As Perry and Sanford stated last night on their mass telephone call, any way to put up barriers between the federal government and states is a very, very good thing.
We of the red states will also be the ones running to the rescue of the blue state dwellers begging for help. We love our blue staters because THEY are Americans. What we do not like is having to pay for states like CA who cave to threats from the President regarding unions, and states who will not see that reducing taxes and giving freedom to the individuals is how to make the economy boom. Unions are never the answer! Apparently these little factoids go largely ignored by folks like you and this writer.
You and the writer might need to ponder these tea parties which took place in EVERY state. We object en mass, and across party lines, to being squashed to death by the feds and talked down to by people like the author of this story. We are fed up with both types!
FYI, after the Civil War, our part of the country was absolutely in dire economic conditions. We did not ask for a bailout, and picked ourselves up by our bootstraps and tried to make our states productive and strong. Today, we have companies like Toyota and others deciding to put THEIR plants in OUR red states because they saw what blue states were doing to the auto industry. Clue to you and the biased writer. And you can KISS MY GRITS! while you are at it!
freeus on May 15, 2009 at 2:25 PM
Sometimes we should just admire someone for the things they say without automatically demanding that they jump into the presidential ring.
Daniels is the kind of person we need to have on hand to send on Sunday shows and such, to help explain things. Why sully him with further political office?
myrenovations on May 15, 2009 at 2:25 PM
Yep. As the old bumper-sticker would say “No new drilling – Let the bastards freeze in the dark.”
California’s green preaching would probably end quickly if other states stopped selling them fuel and electricity.
Their environmentalist BS is being propped up by the fact that the “flyover states” are the ones where oil and coal are being excavated and new power plants are being built. Cut them off and they’ll reconsider all their hurdles to constructing new power plants and drilling off-shore.
teke184 on May 15, 2009 at 2:28 PM
So tragically true. See what is also happening to OR & WA-getting rid of ag land, business, people to provide for parasitic urban living.
For those of you interested in the pinch LA & SA areas are in:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/3597169/A-land-living-on-stolen-water-and-borrowed-time.html
I have soooo looked into teaching in AK. But me & the hubby are land locked here for the time being-he’s got 2 more kids to graduate.
We have often considered selling the ranch & defecting.
But he’s a 4th generation rancher-3rd on the same land, and I’m not quite sure he could leave here.
My bro in law had the greatest ranch up in the long pines area between Camp Crook SD & Ekalaka MT & he just SOLD it.
My husband & I almost died over the heartache of it.
Out in the middle of nowhere with nothing but grass for MILES-I just couldn’t live any other way.
Badger40 on May 15, 2009 at 2:29 PM
As a flyover state with lotsa energy potential & resources, greenies have been trying to regulate us to death.
With this cap-&-trade, they will starve us out, too.
All our jobs will be lost, we here will be sitting upon a huge reserve of resources & won’t be allowed to touch it.
Gee…. that has already been happening.
Wonder why WY,CO,ND,MT etc were not pumping for oil until lately?
It’s bcs of all those environmental regs & lawsuits.
It’s easier to rape & pillage in Siberia etc than it is to deal with regs & problems here.
If we are going to make US companies play by these rules, then we shouldn’t be buying products from other countries that certainly don’t play by those rules.
Uh wait-doesn’t ‘free trade’ have the same problems?
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm………
Badger40 on May 15, 2009 at 2:35 PM
Proud to have supported Mitch Daniels. His last Democrap opponent would have been a nightmare. She is a more stupid version of Michigan’s Granholm…if that’s possible. Ugh!
SKYFOX on May 15, 2009 at 2:38 PM
We live on a farm in Indiana and I can’t imagine it any other way. It would KILL ME to leave it. Urban and suburban dwellers have a hard time understand that I think. It’s more than land. It’s a life.
Nothing wrong with FREE trade, but where’s FAIR trade?
Oink on May 15, 2009 at 2:40 PM
Maybe I will visit someday, but I would much rather find a way to fix the only state I lived. Just cannot figure our how to run for office (finances) and live with being away from my kids (I like being with them every day).
WashJeff on May 15, 2009 at 2:40 PM
If there were fair trade, I wouldn’t have a problem with Mexican, Canadian, & Australian cattle coming into this country & competing with me.
Unfortunately, my product gets lumped in with theirs & since they can do things we can’t, this ‘free trade’ business is hogwash.
And city folks are becoming more & more ignorant in where their food & fiber comes from.
We ag people really need to do a better job of educating people about it.
Badger40 on May 15, 2009 at 2:44 PM
This isn’t about the environment, it isn’t about taxes, it isn’t about power directly. This is Socialism 101. First you must destroy the economy, destroy capitalism, bring down the man, then the workers will rise up unite and claim their rightful ownership of the means of production.
Destruction, it’s all about the greater good to mankind, that’s why they can justify anything.
odannyboy on May 15, 2009 at 2:46 PM
LOL you sure? How much land do you have?
Here is something to ponder. Just rememebr this is RAW land.
upinak on May 15, 2009 at 2:49 PM
Daniels seems to be a very level-headed, thoughtful, and intelleigent man. It’s almost a shame to call him a politician.
I would very much like to see him take a leading role in re-defining this party and leading it in the future.
His commencement speech at Butler University was a great indictment of the selfish living that helps foster the welfare state.
And I’ve yet to find any dirt on him. He seems a reluctant servant, maybe he’s just the guy to go to Washington and clean things up in a single term.
hawksruleva on May 15, 2009 at 2:56 PM
Probably something approaching 3000 acres owned & leased.
2500+ plus deeded.
SW ND is definitely different from AK!
But with all the kids here & my mom who is in a nursing home (has MS) here, I’m pretty much locked in.
But I don’t mind it much.
Besides-no volcanoes or earthquakes for me! :)
Badger40 on May 15, 2009 at 3:07 PM
Take note Rep. Flake!
Branch Rickey on May 15, 2009 at 3:13 PM
OK, I’ll admit to being one of those “coasties” that everyone’s ragging on. And I generally vote Republican and oppose cap&trade. I’ve been trying to get active in the state Party, but it’s dominated by anti-”RINO” witch-hunters who are fanatically chasing a rapidly shrinking number of cranky old white guys.
I live in a 1300 square foot house that even now is probably worth $600K. (I work in an obscure techie field in Silicon Valley, so I won’t be moving to Texas or North Dakota anytime soon…) The good thing is it’s about three miles from work, so I walk to work twice a week.
As for cap&trade, I’m not completely opposed to some sort of “Pigovian tax” to get us off foreign oil, but it should be a simple gas tax, offset with a revenue-neutral reduction in FICA. Cap&trade is a boondoggle, and has failed everywhere it’s been tried.
foobarista on May 15, 2009 at 3:19 PM
On that famous study about red states taking more money, dollars to donuts they were counting things like ag subsidies, maintenance of national parks, subsidies for energy companies, NASA-related facilities, etc. that most residents of red states don’t necessarily benefit from. This is supposed to contrast with the welfare-dependent businesses and individuals who populate blue states. No comparison.
Sekhmet on May 15, 2009 at 3:27 PM
Ok first of all people are not moving out of Indiana in “droves”. I dont know where that comes from. We are a doing better then all of our neighbor states, especially the one to our north I assure you and a lot of that is because of Daniels leadership and balls to be honest.
He is an idea guy for sure and while I dont always agree with him on everything I came in here and kept just about every promise he made during his campaign when he first got elected. How many politicians can you say that about on either side of the isle?
Mitch is a good man and a good conservative and if big brother will leave us alone we will be fine here in the Hoosier state.
HoosierCon on May 15, 2009 at 4:09 PM
Awwww looky, someone had to comment on my blog because they couldn’t speak about indiana on here. Hey Savage… ever thought of registering? Oh and BTW dip stick I am conservative, and my friend owns a farm in Indiana. That is the reason I said that since they ARE moving out of his town!
upinak on May 15, 2009 at 4:12 PM
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