Sweden approves gender-based abortions
posted at 10:46 am on May 13, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
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Amanda Carpenter makes this the Hot Button issue at the Washington Times today, and it provides an interesting juxtaposition to a post I wrote last month. Sweden has approved gender-specific abortions, allowing parents to rid themselves of an unwanted daughter in a closely-watched ethics case:
Swedish women will be permitted to abort their children based on the sex of the fetus, according to a ruling by Sweden’s National Board of Health and Welfare.
The ruling was spurred by a request from Kai Wedenberg, head of the clinic where a woman twice requested, and received, an abortion based on sex.
Mr. Wedenberg asked for clarification from health officials after a woman, who already had two girls, requested amniocentesis and to be told the sex of her unborn child. She found out she was pregnant with another girl and asked for an abortion six days later.
The woman then became pregnant again, returned to the clinic and asked for another amniocentesis, which was not performed. Later, at her ultrasound, she asked the nurse to reveal the sex of her fetus, which was a girl. After learning this, the mother requested an abortion later that day and received it later that week.
Last month, I noted the opposition of the abortion-rights group Center for Reproductive Rights to the same practice in China, where the state’s one-child policy makes gender selection more important for parents. Sweden has no such restrictions; in this case, the woman already had two daughters and wants a son. CRR opposed the Born Alive Infant Protection Act, putting their fright over what they call “fetus rights” over their objections to gender-specific infanticide.
At least Sweden remained consistent. Unlike the CRR, their decision reluctantly noted that the woman’s motivation was irrelevant if one accepts that someone can “choose” to end human life as a right. One wonders whether CRR will protest this decision in Sweden as they do in China, extending their intellectual confusion over the nature of “choice” as an absolute right.
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You are probably right. It’s not a winning issue, sadly But for those of us who see abortion as murder, giving it up is ridiculous.
I think pro-lifers are just sick of the state wanting to butt in on every other aspect of our lives and then screaming at us pay no attention to the dead babies in the corner. They want to control pay, “hate speech”, and whatever else Obama and Congress have coming, but it’s not cool to bring up the valid point that hey, maybe if we don’t know when life begins we should err on the side of keeping the life.
I don’t protest at Clinics or get in people’s faces when they have a difficult situation before them when they get pregnant. But the opinion that abortion kills a human life and murder should be illegal should not seem that radical.
BakerAllie on May 13, 2009 at 12:43 PM
Think Kareokee and try to follow the bouncing ball.
If you are against abortion (or pro life) then you do everything in your power to protect the unborn life to the same degree that all other life is currently protected. Then you add a system to allow exclusions in extreme cases, such as rape or incest or when the woman’s life is in danger. This would follow the extract same principles as currently are in place for all other life. For example, you can’t kill anyone at any time except in self defense. The court decide this and mothers have to prove that they meet the special circumstances to get an abortion.
If you are for choice then the only question is under what circumstances that choice can be exercised. As we see in this article, in Sweden the choice allowed is the sex of the baby. There is no intent at all to protect life only to impose some sort of societal norms on the type of choice that can be made. Again, the limits on the choice are made by the courts.
So you cannot be both against abortion and for choice as they have completely different intent to start with.
Sorry to see that you think that I am a clown to disagree with you – but that is a choice you have to make.
dpierson on May 13, 2009 at 12:44 PM
That’s absurd. One can hate something and not be required to take any next-step.
You do it all the time.
But, if you must know…I’m not planning any trips to Sweden until they change this law.
I also don’t drink Pepsi products or use a Zune out of principle; nor will I ever buy a GM or Chrystler; but that’s none of your business.
bluelightbrigade on May 13, 2009 at 12:45 PM
Dave Rywall on May 13, 2009 at 12:40 PM
Nonsense. Once an adult returns to the White House and Europe comes calling for another D-Day to save them from their dalliance with Islamofascism we can always tell them to go screw themselves.
viking01 on May 13, 2009 at 12:46 PM
Well, GM is sorta our business – sorry couldn’t resist.
Upstater85 on May 13, 2009 at 12:46 PM
nor will I ever buy a GM or Chrystler
bluelightbrigade on May 13, 2009 at 12:45 PM
Right now, that’s just plain common sense.
Shy Guy on May 13, 2009 at 12:46 PM
If my life was in danger I would GLADLY DIE FOR MY CHILD. And talking about women this and women that; some of these supposed women are mere children themselves….14, 15, 16 years old (and younger) – their brains are not even developed yet. How can it be justified to hand them the life or death decision for a yet-to-be-born human? Esp when so many millions of others would adopt. They are killing their own children, oft times, from fear or shame. And all anyone is worried about is waterboarding some dumb-f**k terrorist freak. Morally repugnant.
How do they say they are pregnant at all, when the word pregnant itself is defined as “having a young life in the uterus”? Mongrel dogs are morally superior.
Ris4victory on May 13, 2009 at 12:46 PM
If it’s so moronic then explain how most gays just happen to “discover” they are gay after having really bad stuff happen to them.
My wife’s cousin “discovered” she was a lesbian after being raped by a mentally disabled male patient of hers.
DethMetalCookieMonst on May 13, 2009 at 12:41 PM
——-
A sample of one that is projected to mean “most gays”. Awesome.
There are gay people who have been gay their whole life, there are gay people who become gay because of “really bad stuff”, there are gays who simply decide they like the same sex more, etc etc.
Who gives a sh1t how they became gay?
There will always be 10% of the population that are gay, so you’re just going to have to suck it up – I mean – get over yourself.
Dave Rywall on May 13, 2009 at 12:46 PM
Baker…..I think the pro-life groups have won. It’s not even a popular option.
However, the issue is about state interference in personal medical decision is huge.
Huge.
It’s the primary reason McCain lost, in my opinion.
AnninCA on May 13, 2009 at 12:47 PM
—–
LOL. Soon somebody will be suggesting that kids are aborted because someone had one too many drinks or was too lazy to buy condoms.
JiangxiDad on May 13, 2009 at 12:47 PM
Can’t wait till this day comes; however, maybe we could save Britain… They did have so many great patriots after all.
Upstater85 on May 13, 2009 at 12:47 PM
Sooo true. It’s sad. I would never buy a GM, but my tax dollars over time will more than equal the cost of me buying one…and I won’t even get a set of keys.
bluelightbrigade on May 13, 2009 at 12:48 PM
The state insisted on making our business when they insisted on legalizing nationwide against our will and using our money to fund it.
vapig on May 13, 2009 at 12:48 PM
Perhaps 5 years ago, I think “Discovery” channel aired a program about a beautifully designed high-rise condo in Malmo, Sweden. Spectacular structure, VERY pricey! From the apartments facing the water, you could see Denmark.
And I thought it strange that on another program that aired at about the same time, comments were made about the Muslim section of Malmo into which police would not go. It was too dangerous for them. There had been repeated incidents of police cars being torched and cops being beaten, but because of fear of upsetting(!) the Muslim community, authorities refeused to take action. There have been, however, Christian pastors jailed in Sweden for offending homosexuals. Now, when the Muslims take over, I’m curious whether or not THEY will be concerned about “offending” homosexuals.
That is life in a “post-Christian nation”, and WE are getting there fast.
oldleprechaun on May 13, 2009 at 12:49 PM
I’ve posted this link before. For those that haven’t bookmarked it yet:
Just the Facts
Shy Guy on May 13, 2009 at 12:49 PM
Speaking of the government not meddling in our lives by, er, using our tax money to pay for other peoples personal lives… I wonder if welfare recipients in Sweden get to have the taxpayers pay for their family plan
Upstater85 on May 13, 2009 at 12:50 PM
Can’t wait till this day comes; however, maybe we could save Britain… They did have so many great patriots after all.
Upstater85 on May 13, 2009 at 12:47 PM
Food sucks
Women have bad teeth.
I’m leaning toward Scandinavia first.
faol on May 13, 2009 at 12:51 PM
AnninCA on May 13, 2009 at 12:43 PM
Nah. She obviously should promise to invade Poland and France.
viking01 on May 13, 2009 at 12:51 PM
I see your point, but if state interference in medical issues was the main concern, why would they vote for Obama, who is pushing to nationalize the healthcare system? Once this happens, won’t the state be knee deep in your medical decisions anyhow?
BakerAllie on May 13, 2009 at 12:51 PM
It could be that someday, Swedish will be the new Chinese.
bluelightbrigade on May 13, 2009 at 12:52 PM
Too often, people see what they want to see. You have this story in your head and you go around looking for confirmation. And guess what, everyone has a few bad experiences in their life! So it’s almost impossible that we don’t discover our sexual orientation after the bad experiences. I suppose if I ever meet a gay person who hasn’t had a bad experience it would refute your claim. In the meanwhile, I’m still waiting to meet a heterosexual who has never had a bad experience.
thuja on May 13, 2009 at 12:52 PM
Eh, they love their socialism… I guess we could let them emigrate to our land – just leave the coat hangers behind…
Upstater85 on May 13, 2009 at 12:52 PM
Socialized medicine…everybody will pay for the neighbours designer family, even if it means no girls for their son to marry.
caygeon on May 13, 2009 at 12:52 PM
Media bias? White guilt? The cult of personality? The possibility that Liberalism doesn’t necessarily involve principles?
bluelightbrigade on May 13, 2009 at 12:53 PM
Women.
Women.
Women.
Maybe this law was passed in the wrong country.
Shy Guy on May 13, 2009 at 12:53 PM
Bu-bu-but abortion is a personal choice…
Upstater85 on May 13, 2009 at 12:53 PM
AnninCA on May 13, 2009 at 12:43 PM
Humm….A little obsessed with abortion aren’t we? Instead of relying on anecdotal evidence, if you actually rely on something called evidence, you will know that women are more pro-life than men. You’d also know, based on a Pew Poll, a CNN poll and a Rasmussen poll, that the pro-choice position is not that much more popular than being pro life. Pew/CNN has it as a literally tie. Pew also shows that Gen Y is majority pro-life. Even liberal commentators have admitted that being pro-life is a net advantage for Republicans.
You’re from CA; one of the most pro-choice state in the union. So pro-choice that it defeated a parental notification proposition. To me, that’s insane but that’s CA’s right, just like FL voted for parental notification with over 60 percent of the vote. If Roe is overturned, then you and your friends in CA can have your abortion right and FL can have a more moderate scheme and ID can outlaw it.
BTW, Mac and Palin didn’t lose b/c of abortion, they lost because W allowed a financial crisis to explode two months before election day. Okay, now you can pick up your NARAL tacking points.
TimTebowSavesAmerica on May 13, 2009 at 12:53 PM
Let’s all mind our own business.
AnninCA on May 13, 2009 at 12:23 PM
That’s what the leaders used to say to the Germans when all their Jewish neighbors started disappearing.
viking01 on May 13, 2009 at 12:55 PM
There’s wrong and then there’s wrong…
Upstater85 on May 13, 2009 at 12:56 PM
No. Plenty of those Germans were more than happy and didn’t have to mind anything.
Shy Guy on May 13, 2009 at 12:57 PM
I gave you one example but there are many, MANY gay people that are like how I described. Infact, I hear far more gay people say that bad, bad stuff happened to them before they “discovered” they were gay then not.
BTW, I don’t hate gay people. I’m friends with many. I just think that, like many other things like depression, alcoholism, etc, that it becomes a mental disorder of sorts. Some also do it by choice (slutty chicks being “trendy” in college by saying they are bi), but mostly it’s a mental thing.
DethMetalCookieMonst on May 13, 2009 at 12:58 PM
You can dismiss my comments, of course.
But I am convinced. This issue was the single element.
They did not want to see a conservative appt. to the Supreme Court who would tip the balance to overturning Roe VS Wade.
It was a single issue vote for most women.
AnninCA on May 13, 2009 at 12:58 PM
Viking, if you start spouting Nazi stuff, then you’re into extreme thinking.
Credibility lost.
AnninCA on May 13, 2009 at 12:59 PM
This is a strawman argument and a bad joke. You somehow think that if Roe v Wade were overturned today that millions of women would loose their choice to murder their babies. That’s not so. It would just go back to the states to decide. As it should have stayed in the first place. Just like gay marriage. Then people can vote with their feet.
vapig on May 13, 2009 at 12:59 PM
To all the above:
NO NO NO NO NO!!!!!
Prolife McCain-Palin zipped past Obama in the polls before the “financial meltdown”. That’s what won it for Obama, combined with sycophantic media coverage. Pro-life George Bush won in 2004. Along with many pro-life members of Congress.
In this country, abortion-on-demand is the preserve of the fringe. Simple as that.
ddrintn on May 13, 2009 at 1:01 PM
Baker, your point about national health care is too far out in the future to be relevant.
We’re now talking about covering just working class people by offering a public plan. That’s way different than dealing with a “national plan.”
That’s the problem with the Republican talking points a lot. They are too far out in the future.
That’s rightfully called, “fear-mongering.”
AnninCA on May 13, 2009 at 1:01 PM
I’m talking really, really bad experiences. They were raped, molested, abused, made to feel like absolutely nothing in school.
DethMetalCookieMonst on May 13, 2009 at 1:02 PM
Sweden has embraced the China Syndrome.
If people believe Swedish women are so beautiful, why do the Swedes want to kill them in the womb?
Stockholm, May 13, 2035: Police trying to crack down on prostitution were met by a crowd of angry male protestors, complaining of a shortage of available women. There was a small counter-demonstration from the last Christian church in the city, holding up signs: “Not Enough Women? Blame Your Mothers!”
Steve Z on May 13, 2009 at 1:03 PM
Long term consequences shmonsequences.
Shy Guy on May 13, 2009 at 1:03 PM
dd…..it’s all just opinion at this stage, but I think that voters could have gotten past John’s bizarre actions about the financial meltdown.
But there were all these niggling points. The biggest one for women were about abortion rights.
They simply aren’t going to support the far-right on this. You have a base that insists on this, but can’t win because of this.
It is a core problem.
I say, the solution is to see the reality. It’s just not popular. Keep pushing alternatives!
But if you insist, then you’re going to lose. Women are 50% of the electorate, and we’re not going back to allowing our decisions to be made by strange men in robes.
I really do think it is that simple. Women say no.
AnninCA on May 13, 2009 at 1:05 PM
Shy Guy on May 13, 2009 at 12:57 PM
I was speaking of what the leaders were saying. The mantra. The Hollywood spin.
Several relatives of mine were active in the Resistance in Germany plots to overthrow Hitler and they paid the ultimate price. I wouldn’t be the least surprised if they were ratted out by some pro-NAZI grandma busy baking cookies for her brown-shirted grandkids hopeful that Adolf would reward her with an extra loaf of bread.
viking01 on May 13, 2009 at 1:05 PM
The comparison between reproductive rights and slavery is about as convicing and tenuous as same sex marriage being compared to inter-racial marriage. But it makes the pro-lifers happy to see themselves as the modern day abolitionists. Just like it makes same sex marriage advocates happy to think of themselves as morder day MLKs.
Chekote on May 13, 2009 at 1:05 PM
Yes indeed! And since abortions have been performed legally in this country (and in all other western countries) over the last 35 years the stats are finally in. Abortions physically and pyschologically really screw up yound women.
While promoting their baby killing the left always leaves that little tid-bit out.
vapig on May 13, 2009 at 1:07 PM
AnninCA on May 13, 2009 at 12:59 PM
Make her stop!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
She’s judging me!!!!!!!!!!!!
Silly wench.
Kindly see the last paragraph of my 1:05 post and then get back to your promotions of convenience killing. Thanks.
viking01 on May 13, 2009 at 1:08 PM
This woman is a male-chauvinist pig. Why does she want to kill future women?
Steve Z on May 13, 2009 at 1:08 PM
oops – s/b screw up
youndyoung womenvapig on May 13, 2009 at 1:08 PM
Nov 3, 2008: Gallup Poll Shows Advantage for John McCain Over Barack Obama on Abortion
Shy Guy on May 13, 2009 at 1:08 PM
This has implications for the future. Jill Stanek has written on this. Her column has links to several articles, including one on the rise of women who because of hunger escape from North Korea to China and are caught up in sex trafficking:
She has a link to an ADP item that says this:
INC on May 13, 2009 at 1:08 PM
ddrintn on May 13, 2009 at 1:01 PM
Isn’t it amazing how people don’t have very good memories. I remember after the convention that left going crazy and telling Obama to hit McCain harder. I read a few stories that Obama was a week or two away from pulling out of OH. FL was a done deal back then, even with his face all over my TV. VA, CO would’ve been very close. Then Lehman happened, and everything went to pot. Typical W.
Ann—no one is disputing that there are single issue voters on abortion, and your case is probably very common in CA. That is not the case nationwide. Not in FL, not in the midwest, probably only the pacific coast states and the NE. Even in NJ, they might get a pro-life gov.
TimTebowSavesAmerica on May 13, 2009 at 1:09 PM
I would think that a “reproductive right” would be the right to have children not to kill them.
dpierson on May 13, 2009 at 1:09 PM
I am simply pointing out that the issues being brought up about how the “base” is actually holding back Republicans is true.
I think the focus is off-kilter.
This is a core problem.
Nobody will ever support a pro-life candidate.
It just isn’t going to happen.
AnninCA on May 13, 2009 at 1:09 PM
In another column, “The return of patriarchy,” thanks to abortion, she links to this from Mark Steyn last year. (My emphasis).
INC on May 13, 2009 at 1:09 PM
Relativism.
Point? (Rhetorical)
bluelightbrigade on May 13, 2009 at 1:10 PM
Yes, women demand a TV dinner lifestyle for themselves now. When life gets a little hard, treat it like a TV dinner night. How embarassing for women.
Women don’t realize that this mentality does not produce strong women, it turns them into feeble-minded whiners.
Sarah Palin would have done so much more for women, their esteem and their outlook on life.
caygeon on May 13, 2009 at 1:10 PM
This has become the far-right’s version of intellectualism, in my opinion.
Boy, talk about how people get into theory versus reality! *whew!
Talking to a pro-lifer brings up Nazi references within seconds.
That alone tells me……..”Out of touch with real life.”
AnninCA on May 13, 2009 at 1:11 PM
From the NYT no less! April 10, 2009. (My emphasis):
Chinese Bias for Baby Boys Creates a Gap of 32 Million
If ever there was a case of reaping what you sow, this is it.
INC on May 13, 2009 at 1:11 PM
Not a relflection on you, AnninCA, but I have heard this point from libs who in the same breath then talk about the immense dangers of global warming. I cannot be the only one who sees the humor.
BakerAllie on May 13, 2009 at 1:12 PM
The killing of female babies as long been practiced in human history as most societies/cultures have always placed a premium on males. Just another sad chapter of human history.
Chekote on May 13, 2009 at 1:13 PM
Poll results, please…
bluelightbrigade on May 13, 2009 at 1:13 PM
Caygen…..Palin’s personal choices are the actual norm.
That’s not the issue. Picture her or McCain appointing a justice.
That was why people rejected that ticket. I’m convinced, they knew Obama was way too liberal, too fiscally irresponsible, etc.
But this…this was a huge barrier.
AnninCA on May 13, 2009 at 1:13 PM
Bright…nobody’s asking! LOL*
I’d love to give you poll results, but I think they are asking all the wrong stuff.
AnninCA on May 13, 2009 at 1:14 PM
SAVE THE WHALES…KILL THE BABIES. After all, we must keep our priorities straight.
sdd on May 13, 2009 at 1:14 PM
Who started this Nazi comparison, Holocaust comparison? When did this start? Just curious.
Chekote on May 13, 2009 at 1:14 PM
Find this story especially disturbing. My ex wife and I were divorcing when we found out we had a 3rd child on the way, after having 2 daughters already. Her lesbian MD sister was pushing my ex to abort, but thankfully she decided against it.
Today, my 8 year old daughter has recently been accepted into the gifted students program at her school. She is a polite, friendly, well adjusted kid. I cannot imagine her not being here. It has not been easy, but despite the differences my ex and I have (she is a rabid liberal), we are both against abortion as birth control.
coyoterex on May 13, 2009 at 1:14 PM
Baker…Maybe it’s the same, maybe not.
But I will say that I can’t see how a tax fixes it.
AnninCA on May 13, 2009 at 1:15 PM
You know what else would psychologically screw up young women? Having to carry her rapist’s child to term. Or being forced to sacrifice her life or suffer some permanent disability as a result of her pregnancy. Unless pro-lifers deal with rape and health exceptions for abortions, they’ll never get anywhere.
RightOFLeft on May 13, 2009 at 1:15 PM
I know there aren’t very many of us anymore, but for those of us that read the bible, do you remember Sodom and Gomorrah? I am beginning to think that God is the only one that can put an end to all this hell on earth. This is just evil. Don’t know that it will ever happen, but if it was ever deserved…..
Susanboo on May 13, 2009 at 1:16 PM
Who started this Nazi comparison, Holocaust comparison? When did this start? Just curious.
Chekote on May 13, 2009 at 1:14 PM
About 1933. Any more questions?
viking01 on May 13, 2009 at 1:16 PM
Perhaps women you know – in California. The rest of the country do not believe as you do. To us it is murder, plain and simple.
Not really. The state has determinded that a fetus (baby) is the mothers property to do with as she wills. To give birth to it or to murder it. The fetus (baby) is property and has no human or civil rights.
Pretty much the same was thought about slaves a couple hundred years ago.
vapig on May 13, 2009 at 1:16 PM
I think that anti-abortion forces have succeeded in showing people alternatives, coy.
But that doesn’t undo the fear that some guy will tell you what you have to do, based on some political idealism.
That is NOT OK.
AnninCA on May 13, 2009 at 1:17 PM
It’s no secret that Hilter was a fan of Eugenics theory.
I think it sprung from that.
But I agree that Nazi references are over the top. I don’t think most pro-lifers believe that pro-choicers are making a decision out of hate or some cocked-up racial agenda. Regardless of the one-off comments that crop up.
BakerAllie on May 13, 2009 at 1:18 PM
You are right. It also has become the lefts version of bumper-sticker politics. Talk to any pro-choice person and they will pretty quickly yell: My body – my right, men in black robes, reproductive rights, anti-woman. No intellectual attempts at anything there.
This is a difficult issue that requires thoughtful and careful examination. Ignoring the link between Planned Parenthood, Sanger, eugenics and Nazis is to ignore the eventual outcome of the choice movement – and not better example than the one given in the HA article.
dpierson on May 13, 2009 at 1:18 PM
But that doesn’t undo the fear that some guy will tell you what you have to do, based on some political idealism.
AnninCA on May 13, 2009 at 1:17 PM
Ah, so it’s a men problem. The plot thickens.
viking01 on May 13, 2009 at 1:19 PM
I beg to differ, Ann. There’s nothing un-Nazi about eugenics; so you shouldn’t be so inclined to shoot the messenger when this gets brought up, no matter how cliche it sounds.
Intellectually, Pro-lifers believe that life is sacred; and that it shoud be preserved as an extension of our inalienable rights to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. We want those three things to work in concert, not against each other. Abortion, to us, is a debate over what it means to be American and how we pursue those time-honored American ideals.
Among other things.
bluelightbrigade on May 13, 2009 at 1:19 PM
Your strawman argument is moot. While I don’t wish to see any abortions (the father’s or mother’s sin certainly isn’t the childs fault) I would at least be willing to let it be a states rights issues. Not a federal one immposing its will upon the entire nation.
I also happen to know that even if abortion where outlawed outright in a particular state they would always make the exceptions you have stated.
Please put this tired old usless argument away. Abortions have actually killed young women in this country and pretending it’s just a choice is foolish. These children shouldn’t even be making this choice.
vapig on May 13, 2009 at 1:21 PM
Abortion’s House of Cards
INC on May 13, 2009 at 1:21 PM
The killing of Jews has long been practiced in human history – just another sad chapter in human history.
So let’s stand by and let it happen.
dpierson on May 13, 2009 at 1:21 PM
What I think is missing from the far-right is any sense of pride in the real progress here.
People really don’t like the abortion option.
The Far-Right should smile. They have shown people that alternatives are often better.
I frankly was opposed to them in my youth. I can certainly admit today, they were right.
We have adjusted.
I grew up in an era where a child born out of marriage was often treated badly. That was awful to see.
But I think the pro-life movement has changed that, for the better.
So, do not think my criticisms about this issue mean I don’t see the good results. That’s false.
AnninCA on May 13, 2009 at 1:22 PM
Most pro-lifers that I have met have no issue with such health exceptions. The problem is that “health” has been so broadly defined in some cases, things like financial discomfort and even the lifestyle changes that result from being a parent are now considered “health” reasons to justify having an abortion.
coyoterex on May 13, 2009 at 1:22 PM
That can’t possibly be true (not meant as a slight to you). Groups have to have polling data on this somewhere…it can’t be such a hot issue w/o someone asking these questions (irrespective of whether or not they went noticed in the media, etc.)
I’m not saying it’s on your shoulders…but I’d live to see that data.
bluelightbrigade on May 13, 2009 at 1:22 PM
*love
sorry. lol
bluelightbrigade on May 13, 2009 at 1:23 PM
And I think the Nazi comparison indicate intellectual sloppiness.
AnninCA on May 13, 2009 at 1:23 PM
It’s no secret that Hilter was a fan of Eugenics theory.
BakerAllie on May 13, 2009 at 1:18 PM
He was more than a fan. He mechanized the killing of 4 million of his own people on the basis of desirability and caused the death of countless millions of other. Stalin continued the practice of killing inconvenients to the tune of about 20 million not including Cold War Era warfare.
viking01 on May 13, 2009 at 1:24 PM
Someone needs a V8 today.
Damn. With logic like this, how do you even justify your OWN existence?
bluelightbrigade on May 13, 2009 at 1:24 PM
coy….the issue has to do with my own choices, my own life, and whether I agree that the State has a right to deem me a “baby carrier,” and control my life.
That is the issue.
AnninCA on May 13, 2009 at 1:25 PM
The ultimate outcome of choice over life is that choice can be defined any way needed to kill an unborn child. Nazis had their set of choices, people nowadays have theirs. The only difference is the actual list of choices. You really need to read the history of Eugencis and its link to Nazi doctrine.
dpierson on May 13, 2009 at 1:25 PM
AnninCA on May 13, 2009 at 1:23 PM
You have a very high opinion of Anna don’t you?
Remember those whom have died so that you can feel superior.
viking01 on May 13, 2009 at 1:26 PM
I’d go for laziness, but not sloppiness. If it’s you’re only main point, then you’re lazy, uninformed, or both. But it’s not sloppy to make that comparison, b/c well it’s a pretty accurate and reasonable comparison to make.
I fear for a society that lacks a sense of fear, when it comes to understanding what we are capable of.
bluelightbrigade on May 13, 2009 at 1:27 PM
What makes me particularly nuts about the Nazi comparisons?
In the meantime, genocide is still taking place, in the same manner.
Do I see these same people outraged?
Heck no.
AnninCA on May 13, 2009 at 1:27 PM
Oh, I completely agree and perhaps should have used a harsher term. However the above only emphasizes why Nazi references are over the top when discussing this issue on either side, at least when it comes to the individuals opinions. The Planned Parenthood machine may be a different story.
BakerAllie on May 13, 2009 at 1:27 PM
It may be over the top but the similarities are still there. For the most part I believe women have abortions for two reasons: teenagers through fear and shame; and women simply out of selfishness.
Also, in my experience, never underestimate the left. I have found there is no low they won’t sink to. Eugenics (of black people) was why Margaret Sanger founded planned parenthood. That slippery slope everyone talks of and seems to think is so ubsurd is still creeping up ever so slowly.
Why else this thread?
vapig on May 13, 2009 at 1:28 PM
Yes, I think that is probably true, but irrelevant, since I was only talking about the born-again types.
Count to 10 on May 13, 2009 at 1:28 PM
People can react differently. The biggest challenge for psychologists is that there’s so much variation in human behavior. It may be true that some women, or even most women, would be even further traumatized by having an abortion after being raped. As long as there’s one woman who would fight like hell against carrying that pregnancy to term — and we both know “one woman” is a conservative estimate, even according to the study you linked — we should support her right to choose. Even more forcefully than we support her right to use lethal force to protect herself from bodily harm.
RightOFLeft on May 13, 2009 at 1:28 PM
I object to the state deeming me a baby caregiver. Can I kill my children now? Life is not all about having your choices all the time; your life is controlled from the moment you are born: you have to go to school because the state tells you so. You have no problem with all the other restrictions; it is just this one you can’t deal with.
dpierson on May 13, 2009 at 1:29 PM
Fear?
No, probably not.
I consider myself incredibly blessed. I was treated like a blessing in life.
Still am.
It’s certainly not the case with most of the people on earth even today.
AnninCA on May 13, 2009 at 1:29 PM
BakerAllie on May 13, 2009 at 1:27 PM
Problem is, dead is dead, whether the executioner wears a tuxedo or a joy buzzer.
viking01 on May 13, 2009 at 1:29 PM
So you carry the baby to term, Right.
But why do you imagine everyone is you?
AnninCA on May 13, 2009 at 1:30 PM
What on God’s green earth are you talking about now? Is it Darfur? You think because we can’t do anything there we don’t care? More fool you. What you freaked out libs don’t get is we can’t interfere there. The League of African Nations has forbidden it. Point your outrage where it belongs, dammit!
Deal!
vapig on May 13, 2009 at 1:30 PM
Um…you’ve never worked in the prison system, have you?
This isn’t a slam on anyone, but a LOT of people convert to Christianity as an end-of-their-rope decision, having lived some pretty messed up lives. If their lives were so great, many of them would never feel the need for salvation. Redemption, maybe. But salvation…not for a lot of them.
bluelightbrigade on May 13, 2009 at 1:31 PM
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