Zo to RINOs: No, seriously, leave the party

Elric66 on May 9, 2009 at 4:59 PM

Because we’re a coalition that cannot survive without having different views in it.

YOU would never have been allowed in the republican party in the first place if we had not been open to you. Because if you think the current breed of social conservatives are representative of republicans from way back you’re kidding yourself.

We needed more voters and so we took you in. We’re happy to help you get some of what you want and in return we want you to compromise as well.

That’s fair. If we cannot work together because you won’t compromise on anything then we have no working relationship and we cannot be allies anymore. If we cannot be allies anymore then one of us leaves the party and the party is rendered unelectable until someone else is brought into the party.

Karmashock on May 9, 2009 at 7:31 PM

right4life on May 9, 2009 at 5:00 PM

really? could have fooled me. what you have you done for us? other than the partial-birth abortion ban, not much.

We can’t give you things that aren’t ours to give. You’re blaming us for your own political failures. We are your allies. We didn’t stop you from pushing your social positions even though many of them made us sick.

Why? First, we were always pretty sure it would fail. They’re not popular ideas and just aren’t going to go anywhere. Second, we’re allies and we need each other. Don’t blame us because no one else wants your concept. We have not worked actively against you and we have supported you to the extent we can. In return, we expect the same.

We tolerate you. You tolerate us. Without that the party is over. The party is a coalition. Without cooperation it does not exist. I feel like I’m explaining this to a small child. This is basic stuff here people. If we don’t wise up then the democrats are going to take over for decades. It’s going to be the 60s all over again. You think your social values are in danger now? Wait till they’re irrelevant. Because that’s your fate if you don’t wise up. THAT is why we allied with you in the first place. We needed help or we were screwed. So we did the adult thing. We made a deal with you.

Now you need to make a deal or coalition fails.

I find your position on evolution idiotic. you cannot defend it…other than belittle those who disagree with your hairygod darwin.

Considering that your “evidence” is a thousands year old religious text that you’re trying to use in a scientific discussion I really don’t have to work too hard to defend myself here.

It pains me that you find evolution threatens your beliefs. I see no reason why the two concepts can’t coexist. Why can’t God have created evolution? I mean, god invented logic, math, physics, etc. So why can’t god have also invented biology? If everything is a consequence of God’s law then is not evolution also god’s law?

Your opposition of evolution is medieval in it’s closed minded backwardness. You should be worried when your grasp of science is more comparable with an ignorant Saudi peasant or 10th century European peasant then it does with someone with a modern education.

What is after all the point of science to people like you if all you’re going to do is denounce it? People like you shouldn’t even be on the internet. You should spread the good work on the back of a horse renouncing all the modern conveniences of the science you neither understand nor respect.

I’m not surprised you’re fine with killing babies…its the holy communion of the left…and you’re not a conservative.

I’m not fine with killing babies. I wish they weren’t killed. I just don’t see a way around it. Sure, it would be nice if people were so perfect that they only had children when they wanted. But biology compels us to have children when it’s not in our interest to have them. Small children as young as 13 start to have powerful sexual urges. I know… I was 13. I wanted to have sex so badly it was painful. So, I’ll tell you what. Start marrying people at 13 years old via arranged marriages you might start making some sense.

But if people aren’t getting married until they’re 25 or 30 then that means DECADES of sex outside of wedlock. Sorry, that’s that biology again. Deal with it.

as far as ‘fascistic’ about the gays…you and the gays are a bunch of brown-shirted nazis..trying to squelch the free speech and religion of any who disagree…and your thuggish tactics in CA prove it.

Hey hey hey, I’m with you on the marriage ban though perhaps for reasons you don’t understand. See, I don’t think marriage should be done by the government at all.

See that? You abolish the “LEGAL” concept of marriage and then gays can go off and get a contract if they want. Likewise, marriage will be something between your family and church. If you and your wife want to get a legal contract that do that too. But there won’t be a standard contract and the nature of the union will be mostly private.

See? Compromise. You win. They win. And we get to change the subject before resorting to killing each other. It’s good for everyone.

I’m NOT gonna compromise to deal with you. Social conservative are sick of being betrayed by you ‘moderates’ thats why your boy mccain lost this last time.

McCain isn’t a moderate. He’s just a sellout. And I’m not a moderate anyway. I just have different values then you do.

YOu’re looking at everything through the lense of a linear one dimensional spectrum from left to right. You’re not taking into consideration that what you call moderates are just people that believe something different and are only vaguely related to you or the socialists that run the democratic party.

I’m a libertarian. I believe in freedom. I am by NO MEANS a moderate. As to betrayals, we’ve not betrayed you. McCain might have… but that’s McCain. And he’s not a libertarian anyway.

You’re still not understanding that we’re a coalition here. A LOT of different values under one roof. Just because I care about some things less then you doesn’t make me a moderate because I happen to care MORE about some things then you do.

See, from my perspective YOU are a moderate. You are a moderate on big government. You are a moderate on socialism. You are a moderate populism. You are a moderate on freedom.

Do you understand? You can’t call me a moderate and dismiss me. You have to recognize that I believe what I believe just as passionately and deeply as anything you believe. I just believe in different things. We can work together to defeat the socialist cancer that eats at the heart of our society. But not if you won’t work with anyone. If you won’t compromise you marginalize yourself and we’ll make other allies.

because when it comes right down to it, we don’t need the politics, we know Who wins in the end…

really? Then would you mind not losing because you’ve been losing a lot lately which is not what people that know how to win do.

You have no magic solution to winning any more then anyone else does. You have a large number of committed people that believe in some things that are close enough to what we believe for an alliance to exist. That is all.

I am not blaming you for the failure of this party. We’ve all made mistakes and will make more in the future. But you have to understand you’re already in a big tent party here. We’ve known it for decades and have treated you with respect for that reason.

If you think you can survive without allies then we’ll have to abandon you entirely or excise you from the party and make new arrangements. We expect you’ll do the same and likely many of you will turn into Jimmy Carter democrats. That’s the way of the world.

uh yeah Lincoln was a REAL libertarian sort a guy….you can as many slaves as you want…please, what are you smokin???

It’s about freedom pal. You either recognize the point or I can’t help you.

and what social programs do you think we like?? you just want to keep killing babies, at all costs…and make your gay allies more equal than the rest of us.

Riiiight… I have no interest in killing babies. As I said above, I really wish that never happened ever. And I don’t have a problem with restrictions on how abortion is used. That said the mothers have rights too.

So there’s a compromise there. And before you tell me we should just make it illegal blah blah blah, well it won’t matter for the babies because most of them will still get aborted. There were abortions in the middle ages despite the power of the church. Nothing you’ll do will stop them. All you’ll do is force women to go to illegal doctors to get it done.

No matter what law you pass you cannot win here. A lot of babies are going to get aborted no matter what. I’m not against your abstinence training, some restrictions on abortion, and maintaining some taboos about the practice. That is the best you’re going to get from anyone. Complaining that that isn’t enough is pointless.

We’ll work with you to get that but asking for more serves no purpose.

again you’re delusional. who is it who sues, silences and harasses all who disagree (besides the gays)..the darwiniacs who cannot stand to have their atheist faith questioned.

Hey hey hey, I’m for school voucher programs too. That means if you want to send your kids to a school that teaches that babies come from the magic stork that drops off kids through the chimney… then fine. I really don’t care what you teach your kids.

See that? That is what libertarians believe. We believe in freedom. Freedom of choice. Freedom of thought. Freedom of action.

If you want to teach your kids that science is evil and constructive thought should be replaced with mindless doctrine. I won’t stop you. I won’t have it in the public school system. That said, I don’t want a public school system anyway. I want private schools that can be funded with vouchers. Thus everyone can afford an education but no one is forced to accept education they don’t want.

By imposing your primitive dogma on the school body you’re indoctrinating people. I’m sorry you doubtless think evolution is indoctrination. It is no more indoctrination then mathematics is indoctrination. But in the spirit of freedom I’m happy to help you get any kind of education you want for your family. In return, I expect you to give me the same.

Let me educate my children as I see fit as well. How can you be against that?

I’ll tell you what, why don’t you try arguing with me on the ‘facts’ of evolution?? you’ll lose.

No I won’t. You’ll just start randomly invalidating evidence that is harmful to your position. You’ll ignore DNA, ignore the fossil record, ignore observed natural selection that can be reproduced in a lab, you’ll ignore radio carbon dating, you’ll throw out all my evidence without justification. And then after you’ve thrown out everything you’ll pull out your little black bible and start pounding it on the table like an angry gorilla.

Look, I don’t care if you want to believe in stupid stuff. That’s your right. I respect your right to believe nonsense.

At the same time, I expect to allowed to believe what I want as well. Get me? Believe whatever you want. I won’t force it down your throat. I won’t go door to door in your neighborhood to preach the good word about science.

I won’t even care if you want to try and indoctrinate me anyway. But what I do expect is the right to ignore you if I want to. That means letting my children learn ACTUAL science if I want them to learn it.

Fair?

and you sure don’t have a problem ignoring the rights of unborn babies…or christians who disagree with gay marriage.

Look, the abortion issue is a really messy one and there’s no good answer for it. I don’t know what to tell you. We’re trying to reduce it but your alternative of forcing everyone to carry the children to full term is neither politically possible or in my opinion ethical.

As to gay marriage, as I said above the solution is to remove marriage from the government as a legal concept entirely. Your church will marry you and if after that marriage you want to sign a document with the government no one will stop you. But it will just be a contract.

I assume you don’t have a problem with gay pre-nups?

I can’t get along with you.

Then you lose. Thanks for playing.

as far as I am concerned YOU are just the democrats…fascist little nazis.

Wait wait wait. I’m a democrat even though I disagree with almost all their party platforms?

And you’re calling me a Nazi even though I’m not telling people what to do and am trying to protect people’s rights and free will?

What kind of Orwellian Good Think talking about?

The problem with people like you is that you think Slavery is Freedom.

You’re deluded.

you ARE what you say you hate.

Only on magical opposite day. ;)

Karmashock on May 9, 2009 at 8:18 PM