CNN poll: Majority support waterboarding terrorists, 50/46
posted at 8:47 pm on May 6, 2009 by Allahpundit
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The latest reminder that the nutroots’ mindless anti-torture absolutism, in all circumstances and regardless of countervailing considerations, isn’t quite as “reality-based” as they wished. As intriguing as this result is, note how much higher the numbers are in opposition to investigating Bush officials.
Six in ten people questioned in a CNN/Opinion Research Corporation survey released Wednesday believe that some of the procedures, such as water boarding, were a form of torture, with 36 percent disagreeing.
But half the public approves of the Bush administration’s decision to use of those techniques during the questioning of suspected terrorists, with 50 percent in approval and 46 percent opposed.
“Roughly one in five Americans believe those techniques were torture but nonetheless approve of the decision to use those procedures against suspected terrorists,” says CNN Polling Director Keating Holland. “That goes a long way toward explaining why a majority don’t want to see former Bush officials investigated.”
Fifty-seven percent of those questioned don’t want Congress to investigate Bush officials who authorized those harsh interrogation procedures, with 42 percent calling for action by lawmakers. Fifty-five percent also don’t want a similar investigation by an independent panel.
Like Karl says, interrogation investigations are a farce; fortunately, thanks to numbers like these, they’re not in the offing. One thing I can’t figure out, though: The left swears, up and down, that the ticking-bomb scenario conservatives always use when arguing this subject would never, ever, evah happen in real life. That may be true in the most literal sense — time bombs aren’t a favored weapon of jihadists — but counterterrorism agents typically wait as long as possible before swooping in to make arrests of suspected terrorists in order to gain as much incriminating evidence as they can. Why is it so hard to imagine the CIA discovering that terror cells are in motion to carry out a plot, intercepting a member on his way to the scene of the attack, and having to decide whether to rough him up to extract information that might disrupt the plan?
To illustrate just how confident the GOP is that this issue is a winner for them, here’s the latest ad from Senate Republicans — followed, just for good measure, by the DNC’s latest dig at the opposition. I think both are lame. The first one’s simply too far over the top thanks to the music, and the second one’s a clever concept without any ultimate point. How can it be that our parties’ message brain trusts have devolved this far? The Conservatives 4 Palin people are operating on a budget of near-zero dollars, I’d imagine, and even they’re more clever than this.
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Frog march half the American public off to Spain for trial, now!
Loxodonta on May 6, 2009 at 8:51 PM
Gotta love this from the CNN comments:
He probably doesn’t know anyone who voted for Nixon, either.
amerpundit on May 6, 2009 at 8:51 PM
They didn’t ask ME…I’d have voted for WATERBOARDING….if it’s in our best interests, and apparently it was.
Show some more pictures of Sept. 11th to remind Americans what these terrorist, not only are capable of, but HAVE done and want to do again.
originalpechanga on May 6, 2009 at 8:52 PM
As we know from the trolls and their constant reminders of Bush’s low poll numbers and the majority of people who became tired of the war we must live by the poll numbers. If the majority want waterboarding it must be right.
Jamson64 on May 6, 2009 at 8:55 PM
It must not even be that close if this was a CNN poll…
d1carter on May 6, 2009 at 8:55 PM
It’s not a matter of living by polling numbers. But the left tries to claim that even the thought of waterboarding is considered abhorrent by most Americans. The poll shows that that isn’t the case.
amerpundit on May 6, 2009 at 8:56 PM
New DHS lexicon entry: CNN poll respondent extremist.
Ted Torgerson on May 6, 2009 at 8:57 PM
‘
Maybe they think waterboarding is not torture? they understand that cutting ears off and throwing people off buildings is the real evil.
Jamson64 on May 6, 2009 at 8:57 PM
Gotcha there but the trolls do believe, when it works for them, that we should have ended the war becauase of the polls. They somehow forgot the vast majority agreed to get into the war.
I do not live by polls and prefer decisions be made thoughtfully.
Jamson64 on May 6, 2009 at 9:00 PM
fify
Y-not on May 6, 2009 at 9:01 PM
oops, that’s 24/7!
Y-not on May 6, 2009 at 9:01 PM
You nailed it.
Due to the media embargo on all things 9/11, there’s been a whole lotta forgetin’ goin’ on.
Last week’s AF1 buzz of NYC brought back a lot of uncomfortable memories for a bunch of folks who have been happily cocooned themselves back into 9/10.
Good to see the majority of the country still gets it, but Allah is right; the GOP has the means at their disposal to fumble this too.
Bruno Strozek on May 6, 2009 at 9:01 PM
It is quite unfortunate that so many Americans will not even support the things that hold the line.
How pathetic. The subversion in our midst is so deep, so entrenched, so sprawling. And what do we do?
Cry over the discomfort of our avowed enemies. We worry about their safety, vague “rights” that have no legal backing, and a supposed “moral high ground” that never existed.
I can’t take it anymore. I can’t look at it anymore. The West is caving and no one cares except for a minority.
The MSA is subverting us on college campuses. The ISNA, CAIR, and other Islamic “moderate” groups are subverting us in D.C. The Ikhwan’s “Civilization-Jihadist” process is doing well. With their superior birthrates, and superior will, they are marching on Europe, building mega mosques, setting the agenda in European schools, parliaments, and societies.
And it’s coming here. The seeds have been planted, and Americans are just deluding themselves into this idea that Islam is a belief system on the same par as Christianity. The apologists are in our universities, our entertainment, our government, military; everywhere. I’m sick of hearing it. I can’t deal with it anymore.
I’m better off moving to the hills of New Zealand, and never looking back.
blatantblue on May 6, 2009 at 9:02 PM
Ah, gotcha.
amerpundit on May 6, 2009 at 9:02 PM
Until you fixed it I thought you were insinuating that was the total of their viewers.
Cindy Munford on May 6, 2009 at 9:06 PM
ahh but how many think their backs should be shaved?
johnnyU on May 6, 2009 at 9:08 PM
Hell, forty years ago, 60% would have supported waterboarding these pukes.
The remaining 40% would have supported putting them on the rack.
God, how far we have sunk!
-Dave
Dave R. on May 6, 2009 at 9:09 PM
Frankly, Ann Coulter’s hilarious column on the torture story pretty much nails what most real people think of this issue.
If you haven’t read it, I would….
It’s a “secret” delight.
AnninCA on May 6, 2009 at 9:09 PM
That comment read exactly like some elite academics I have known. They only hear comments they agree with, because they are so intolerant of anyone who disagrees with them that few dare.
Loxodonta on May 6, 2009 at 9:11 PM
I support waterboarding the moronic 46%.
progressoverpeace on May 6, 2009 at 9:12 PM
Those who lose their instinct for survival will succumb to those who have retained it.
Feeding on a toothless diet of anti-historical wishful-thinking produces suicidally-vacuous fools.
(Who are approaching a majority in America, tragically.)
Only pain dissolves such disembodied delusions.
profitsbeard on May 6, 2009 at 9:12 PM
I support waterboarding Cafferty with uhm, hydrochloric acid. Yeah, that’s it.
SouthernGent on May 6, 2009 at 9:14 PM
Just teach your kids Arabic.
They’ll have an easier time dealing with Shari’a in 20 years.
blatantblue on May 6, 2009 at 9:15 PM
Well,thank you DNC web ad,now I know,who are on
the Liberal Party Hit List as the most hated by
the Democrats!
canopfor on May 6, 2009 at 9:15 PM
Like the song says, if it were up to me I’d show the video of people dropping off the WTC towers every day, every channel; remind people EXACTLY what their fellow citizens bravely endured on 911.
It’s a travesty that the American public has never seen the unedited footage from 911, yet we are freely shown a bunch of savages at Gitmo with panties on their heads and we’re supposed to cringe in horror.
Bishop on May 6, 2009 at 9:17 PM
They will keep doing this until it goes their way and then it will be all over the place and it will be absolute.
We know this.
tomas on May 6, 2009 at 9:18 PM
So if the left wants to put waterboarders and those that ordered them on trial . . . . when do we start prosecuting protesters that have committed it?
- The Cat
MirCat on May 6, 2009 at 9:18 PM
I support waterboarding them 183 times and then forcing them to watch Rosey O’Donald do a strip tease while singing “a teaspoon of sugar“…
doriangrey on May 6, 2009 at 9:19 PM
Yep, nothing like a head start in life.
-Dave
Dave R. on May 6, 2009 at 9:20 PM
The left is actually blowing this, bigtime. The next attack that occurs here, and it will happen, the American people aren’t going to give two craps about who gets bombed into oblivion. The appeasing peacenik movement will literally die-out overnight.
Watch that approval of waterboarding number hover over 90%, with a matching percentage for the question “Do you believe we should nuke the ever-lovin’ shiite out of whoever did this?”
Bishop on May 6, 2009 at 9:22 PM
It’s a disgrace. The documentary by the Naudet brothers should be SEEN BY EVERYONE DAMNIT!
Every American should see that documentary; as one of the brothers filming at the base of the towers can hear the loud crashing noises from people jumping. It is fcuking unbelievable to me that these traitorous bastards on the left (and some on the right) give a damn about these filthy kalab.
Pathetic. I don’t even know what to say.
blatantblue on May 6, 2009 at 9:22 PM
I’d like to agree, but this mental disease known as liberalism is very virulent, and can survive the most extreme environments.
blatantblue on May 6, 2009 at 9:26 PM
the 50% consists of people inoculated by TV shows & the regular sadists. it’s actually a pretty decent poll, considering the simplistic thought patterns most people rely on to get through life.
sesquipedalian on May 6, 2009 at 9:26 PM
At least 50% of this country knows what is coming…so hopefully they will be prepared when we are hit again. Because the entire issue is really academic with this administration. They aren’t the least bit focused on protecting this country at all…so the door opens for the terrorists by the day. A lot of American bloodshed will need to happen before that number shifts. Just like the economy.
AUINSC on May 6, 2009 at 9:27 PM
That would be racist! Pointing out facts about our enemies is just so darned unfair. We don’t want to stir up ill will towards islamo-nuts!
jwp1964 on May 6, 2009 at 9:28 PM
Blood’s on your hands, motherf*cker.
blatantblue on May 6, 2009 at 9:28 PM
blatantblue on May 6, 2009 at 9:28 PM
louder.
sesquipedalian on May 6, 2009 at 9:31 PM
Actually, it’s the 50 percent that are using their brains in a rational logical fashion rather than regurgitating their local communist agitators talking points.
doriangrey on May 6, 2009 at 9:34 PM
Blood’s on your hands, motherf*cker.
blatantblue on May 6, 2009 at 9:28 PM
Nope, the blood is never on THEIR hands, only the hands of others.
It’s why concerned lefties put “Free Tibet!” stickers on their cars without having a clue where Tibet is, or why your average lib couldn’t have spelled “Iraq” before 2003 even if they had the the first, third and fourth letters given to them.
They are never to blame, ever.
Bishop on May 6, 2009 at 9:36 PM
It’s not the waterboarding that I am worried about,it’s those
SCARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRY Caterpillars.
Just like with the years of yelling for impeachment and war crime trials,nothing significant will come of it.
No arrests.
No frog marches.
No jail times.
All the democrats and their liberals sheep care about is keeping Bush and the Republicans in the press looking like
EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEvil nazis.
All of these things were yelled and screamed to be war crimes when Bush was accused of doing them.
NOT A WORD,NO MARCHES IN THE STREETS,NO MARCHES ON WASHINGTON,NO HOLLYWOOD STARS CALLING OBAMA A LIAR,WAR CRIMINAL,AND COMPARING HIM TO HITLER.
It’s all about demonizing your opponent to gain political advantage.
There’s really no lie or corrupt action a liberal won’t do to further there quest for power.
Baxter Greene on May 6, 2009 at 9:37 PM
So pathetic. Sayyid the Friendly Neighborhood Mujahid could come perform some jihad on your ass, and you’d apologize for getting blood everywhere.
blatantblue on May 6, 2009 at 9:40 PM
his confident smile and kind eyes are an inspiration to us all.
sesquipedalian on May 6, 2009 at 9:45 PM
President Obama just reminded everybody why waterboarding is necessary. If he really opposes torture, why did he do that?
Loxodonta on May 6, 2009 at 9:50 PM
Actually, the Carmina Burana will improve most things that it’s played with. But it’s the bits near the end that are scandalous.
njcommuter on May 6, 2009 at 9:51 PM
I’d be curious to see a poll of how many people approve of actual torture (i.e. not loud music, bobbing for apples, and pillow fights at Camp Gitmo). I suspect the result would be pretty galling for the left.
Lehosh on May 6, 2009 at 9:56 PM
I’m floored that it got to 50%, given the howling of the MSM 24/7 about this over the last month and Dear Leader’s ostentatious sanctimony over it. This has to have the Guard Dog Media gnashing its teeth. What else can they make up now to get that number below 50???
rockmom on May 6, 2009 at 9:56 PM
That was just a dry run for when Obama repeats 9/11/01…
doriangrey on May 6, 2009 at 9:57 PM
sesquipedalian:
You have NO idea how outrageously ironic that quote is, given the tripe that is pushed by the MSM.
Turtler on May 6, 2009 at 9:58 PM
ROTFLMAO….. If the Communist News Network admitted to 50 percent that means that it was really closer to 70 or 80 percent. CNN is after all nothing but liars.
doriangrey on May 6, 2009 at 10:00 PM
Much like those 60 percent or so that said we should end the war or the 50 plus percent who support abortion rights.
Jamson64 on May 6, 2009 at 10:00 PM
Wait till the photos come out.
24/7 on TV and Newspapers.
Baxter Greene on May 6, 2009 at 10:01 PM
And your pathetic hypocrisy is up front for everyone to see.
Baxter Greene on May 6, 2009 at 10:02 PM
Puke : O~~~~
Jamson64 on May 6, 2009 at 10:05 PM
Turtler on May 6, 2009 at 9:58 PM
thank you.
sesquipedalian on May 6, 2009 at 10:07 PM
Here is another great example of how all this whining about
enhanced interrogation is nothing but liberals playing politics with our National Security:
The Justice Department’s Torture Hypocrisy
Investigate Bush lawyers’ torture analysis one day, cite it favorably the next.
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NjRhNWQ2YTRlYWI2NzU0Yjc0NmFlN2FjMmI2YzYyODU=
Add this to the fact that Obama has admitted that waterboarding and other enhanced interrogation methods did stop attacks and you get a clear picture of just how dumb someone has to be to follow such a corrupt and narcissistic
hustler as Obama.
Baxter Greene on May 6, 2009 at 10:08 PM
Jamson64 on May 6, 2009 at 10:05 PM
can you do it next to someone else’s comment? geez.
sesquipedalian on May 6, 2009 at 10:09 PM
The Religion of Obama has warped your mind
Jamson64 on May 6, 2009 at 10:14 PM
Allahpundit: The first one’s simply too far over the top thanks to the music
I agree, and don’t think the Carmina Burana is appropriate. The orchestration is too bright and energetic. The emotional associations don’t work at all, as if the music contrasts with the images, even though the lyrics of the O Fortuna have an intriguingly coincidence:
O Fortune, like the moon…
I would suggest something electronic and eerie, like a heart monitor. Or, just strings, sliding or churning. Or, something very somber, funereal, like the following:
Purcell – Music for the Funeral of Queen Mary
But all at low volume.
Loxodonta on May 6, 2009 at 10:19 PM
Jamison the leftists do need a religion because are not they all athiests? When a city gets blown to smithereens you can bet your bottom dollar that 90 percent will support getting these thugs and they won’t care on how they do it.
garydt on May 6, 2009 at 10:21 PM
I say move em all to my town in West Texas. More than a few of us ‘clingers have some new toys that need testing on more than prairie dogs. If not here, then howabout Montana?
bikermailman on May 6, 2009 at 11:04 PM
As usual, CNN doesn’t tell us their methodology. Like how many people from each political group they talked to.
And why did it take so long for this poll to come out? It was done April 23-26. Last time I checked, that was almost 2 weeks ago.
Del Dolemonte on May 6, 2009 at 11:06 PM
Let me get this straight. We’re supposed to wring our hands and gnash our teeth because the CIA didn’t make nice with murderous jihadists. But when it comes to REAL government cover-ups like the Oklahoma City bombing and TWA 800 we raise nary an eyebrow.
Alllllrighty then
miles on May 6, 2009 at 11:16 PM
As the liberals continue on with their whine fest over water being poured over terrorist faces and the horror of having to be in the same room with caterpillars,
they are introducing bills to allow parents leniency to kill children after they are born.
(via gatewaypundit)
Texas Dem Introduces “Infanticide Bill”– Will Make Killing a 1 Year-Old Baby a Mere Felony
http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2009/05/texas-rep-introduces-infanticide-bill.html
But don’t you dare put a caterpillar in that baby’s crib!!
Baxter Greene on May 6, 2009 at 11:40 PM
How sad it is that even CNN couldn’t fib the numbers in their poll to get the anti-”torture” side the majority.
Vyce on May 6, 2009 at 11:44 PM
Therefore at least 50% of Americans are unAmerican according to Barack Obama’s standards of “American” values.
petunia on May 7, 2009 at 12:16 AM
I don’t give a $#!+ if 100% support it or 100% are against it. It saved potentially thousands of lives. Pray to whatever god you believe in that we don’t need to learn that lesson all over again.
Jim Treacher on May 7, 2009 at 12:52 AM
I bout gagged when I read that as well so I answered him.
Unfortunately CNN closed the comments.
Really?
“the majority of people i know think torture is an abomination of decency.”
The majority of the people you know, do not know the difference tween waterboarding and SIMULATED Waterboarding.
Waterboarding by definition, 1500 to 2000, requires/states that water fills up the breathing passageways.
This is done by
Submerging the head completely below the water, all breathing passageways fill with WATER.
Pouring water directly into BOTH the mouth and nose, filling BOTH breathing passageways with WATER.
Pouring water into a CLOTH that, when breath through, draws WATER into the breathing passageways, slowly filling the breathing passageways with WATER.
Regardless of how waterboarding is done, real waterboarding, the breathing passageways ARE FILLED with WATER.
WATER filling the breathing passageways is paramount to actual waterboarding.
With out that there is no “Waterboarding”.
The Method used by the CIA has PLASTIC WRAP covering the mouth and nose, preventing WATER from entering the breathing passageways.
Conclusion, the Method used by the CIA, is not WATERBOARDING.
It is CLOSE to waterboarding, but it is NOT waterboarding.
Do you need an analogy?
Okay.
Out here in California a driver with a BAC (Blood Alcohol Count) of .08 is legally technically drunk.
A driver with a .07 is NOT legally technically drunk.
The CIA method was to bring it to the limit but not over the limit.
This is why. and the only logical reason why, no one will be tried or even investigated for “TORTURE”
Please note how the words used are changing, it’s not by accident.
If the MSM would actually do their job and explain this you would find the numbers to be about 80% to 20%, with 80% approve.
In my opinion, this was a good use of the “useful idiot” tactic.
The more the “useful idiot” screamed about “Waterboarding is torture” the more terrorist believed we would actually use REAL Waterboarding.
The Terrorist, not being stupid, knew water being poured onto plastic wrap was not “Waterboarding”, however due to the “useful idiots” they had every reason to believe the NEXT step would be REAL “Waterboarding”.
Now they don’t.
Good Job Obama!
DSchoen on May 7, 2009 at 1:15 AM
sesquipedalian:
That wasn’t a compliment.
Turtler on May 7, 2009 at 2:03 AM
I’m against all terrorists, whether waterboarding, surfboarding, snowboarding, whatever.
On the other hand, I’m in favor of anything that puts that grimy, stinky, sweaty KSM in closer proximity to water. Maybe he’ll get a clue and bathe. You’d think you’d eventually get sick of running around with Daniel Pearl’s blood under your fingernails.
notropis on May 7, 2009 at 2:16 AM
But would you allow Vince from “Sham WoW!” to do the interrogation?
DSchoen on May 7, 2009 at 5:36 AM
Allow??? He11 I would require it, I would also require the Burger King “King” assist him….
doriangrey on May 7, 2009 at 7:59 AM
This is what happens when leaders allow the actions of our enemies to change to values of our country.
We prosecuted waterboarding as torture in WWII. The SERE program gave soldiers a taste of it because they wanted them to be able to endure torture if captured.
Then we’re attacked once and suddenly it’s OK for us to use the technique we once found so abhorrent. America should not change its values based on the actions of outside forces. this was a failure of leadership by the Bush administration. A failure to uphold the values of our country.
Tom_Shipley on May 7, 2009 at 8:11 AM
What evidence do you have of this?
Tom_Shipley on May 7, 2009 at 8:12 AM
Full of $hit as usual……
doriangrey on May 7, 2009 at 8:22 AM
For Public Use – my article on Waterboarding
On the whole waterboarding = torture meme, we need to remember a few things:
1. WHO WAS WATERBOARDED?
Let’s remember who we’re dealing with here. In all the hypotheticals thrown around on these torture threads people might get the impression the CIA just grabbed 3 detainees at random or something.
We’re talking about 3 highest level terror masterminds.
Who’d already planned and pulled off attacks that had killed thousands of innocent American civilians, and were in the midst of planning new attacks when we captured them.
I’m going to repeat that last sentence again to make sure none of my liberal friends skipped over it like it was a hypothetical or something. It’s a fact:
Who’d already planned and pulled off attacks that had killed thousands of innocent American civilians, and were in the midst of planning new attacks when we captured them.
Terrorist chatter tipped off American intelligence that more attacks were in the planning stages. These guys were at the very top of the terror networks we were trying to listen to. They had to know details.
We asked politely.
They refused to talk.
We asked not so politely.
They still refused to talk.
Then we threatened them with UN sanctions and………..OK I’m joking there.
What happened is the interrogators gradually escalated the amount of pressure brought to bear upon these mass murderers until their wills broke and they talked.
Some people try to give the impression we asked them nastily once or twice and then immediately the waterboarding began. Far from it.
2. WHY INTERROGATE IN THE FIRST PLACE?
Why do we bother interrogating people in the first place? What’s the point of an interrogation, anyway?
It would be nice if the first time we politely asked a terrorist mastermind where the next upcoming attack is, he instantly coughed up the info.
That’s not what happens.
SOME weak willed people will break after harsh questioning alone. Others have stronger wills and need stronger measures.
The point of interrogation is to break the will. The terrorist mastermind is your ENEMY and he has a strong will. That’s why he’s at the top of a terror organization and not just a flunky near the bottom somewhere. Weak nancy-boys don’t make it to the top of Al Queda.
He was planning attacks hoping to launch them and kill as many American civilians as possible. He’s not going to WILLINGLY divulge this information. He WANTS the attack to take place. He’s going to STRONGLY resist any effort to get him to talk about the attack. It is going to take REAL pressure and stress to get this guy to cough up the details he so desperately does not want us to have.
manofaiki on May 7, 2009 at 8:24 AM
3. WHY WERE THEY WATERBOARDED?
Besides remembering who was being dealt with here in regards to these interrogation technniques, we need to remember what was stake.
Maybe some of you, in the 8 years since 9-11, 2001 have concluded the terror threat has passed, perhaps was just a figment of the Bush Administration’s imagination or something.
Nobody was thinking that way in 2002 or 2003. Certainly few people in the American intelligence community, who took their jobs in regards to preventing further 9-11’s very, very seriously, were thinking that way.
We have 3 high level terrorist masterminds. They’ve pulled off a stunningly successful attack on 9-11. They had more attacks being planned when we captured them. If we can’t get the information from them, and successfully break their wills and get them to spill the beans, another 9-11 could happen and we’ll be staring at hundreds, perhaps even again at thousands of dead Americans.
Picture a scale and put the prospect of the dead from another terror attack on one side, and these 3 Al Queda *******s on the other.
So on one side of the scale we’ve got hundreds, perhaps thousands of innocent dead American civilians.
On the other side of the scale we’ve got 3 guilty-as-sin terrorist masterminds who are mass murderers hundreds of times over – who will suffer the psychological damage of having their wills broken.
Which is the greater harm?
If you’re struggling to decide this question, let me assure you that most Americans aren’t struggling at all.
Even if the equation was 1 dead American on one side of the scale and 1 psychologically wounded terrorst mastermind on the other, they wouldn’t wrestle with this ‘dilemma’.
How much psychological harm is done to someone from breaking their will and getting them to share information they don’t want to share?
Look at John McCain and our other Vietnam POWs. They had their wills – along with their bodies, unfortunately – broken REPEATEDLY under brutal physical torture by the North Vietnamese. Most of them, like McCain himself, went on to lead productive lives once they returned to the States. Whatever sort of mental harm we are talking about here, it’s obviously not sufficient enough to damage people to the point they can’t get on with their lives.
So is having your will broken so psychologically damaging it amounts to the same sort of harm generated by unleashing a terror attack that kills dozens of people? Hundreds? Thousands? I think very few people would hold to that position.
You inflict a smaller, lesser mental harm to one person to prevent a far greater physical harm to hundreds, if not thousands.
And if you think inflicting psychological harm on a terrorist mastermind by breaking his will is just as bad as a couple hundred dead Americans, you and I are going to just have to disagree about this.
So some terrorist asshole might cry a bit and have a few nightmares over having his will broken?
I can live with that if the alternative is staring at another smoking hole in the ground where a couple thousand of my countrymen used to be.
You can cry over pool Khalid’s delicate psyche if you want to. I won’t.
This guy cut Daniel Pearl’s HEAD off with a dull knife. Spend at least 10 seconds thinking about that, please.
Anybody who wastes one ounce of their compassion on this guy doesn’t really know who he is. Which just makes all the hand-wringing over him even more ludicrous.
manofaiki on May 7, 2009 at 8:25 AM
Actually, we’ve prosecuted as torture as recently as 1983:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/02/AR2007110201170.html
Tom_Shipley on May 7, 2009 at 8:33 AM
This has nothing what so ever to do with your previous false statement.
doriangrey on May 7, 2009 at 8:38 AM
Please enlighten me…
Tom_Shipley on May 7, 2009 at 8:39 AM
Furthermore this has nothing what so ever to do with torture and everything to do with US law prohibiting coerce confessions against civilians suspected of committing criminal acts.
doriangrey on May 7, 2009 at 8:45 AM
As much as I would love to, you have made it abundantly clear that even God himself could not do that.
doriangrey on May 7, 2009 at 8:46 AM
Is this better (I assumed you had clicked on the link I provided and read the article. Guess not).
Tom_Shipley on May 7, 2009 at 9:00 AM
Epic FAIL…..
doriangrey on May 7, 2009 at 9:03 AM
You should actually READ the articles cited prior to deeming them an EPIC FAIL. I hate to break this to you, but the article I cite is not the same one Coulter (great source!) is referring to.
In this 2007 article they are referring to U.S. Soldiers:
Also, in coulter’s column, she says the following:
Here’s how the US describe the “water cure” back then:
Sounds an AWFUL LOT like the waterboarding we’ve been practicing.
Is there a higher level of fail than epic? We may have to create one for you, doriangrey.
Tom_Shipley on May 7, 2009 at 9:11 AM
They’ve obviously been influenced by the teachings of the great legal philosopher Matt Damon.
“Do it, but don’t codify it!”
DrSteve on May 7, 2009 at 9:32 AM
Tom:
http://www.anncoulter.org/
Ann Coulter discussed this whole “Japanese Waterboarding = CIA Waterboarding” BS in her column today.
Newsbusters has dealt with this also:
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/tim-graham/2009/04/24/did-cnns-paul-begala-mangle-facts-waterboarding-history
You know, this stuff isn’t hard to find if you look.
manofaiki on May 7, 2009 at 9:34 AM
It’s not the same waterboarding – if you read the actual article. Only one Japanese soldier was ever convicted of WATERBOARDING and he performed this on a US civilian.
manofaiki on May 7, 2009 at 9:37 AM
You also failed to mention that if this did not work, then they forced a tube in your nose and forced water down the tube…each step in their “process” escalated until you either “broke” or died…and many, many men died at the hands of the Japanese torturers. It is not just the singular process…it is the progression and the threat of eventual death. The difference is the threat of holding you under water for 30 seconds, and each time 30 seconds longer…eventually you would say: But it was for only 30 seconds, never mentioning what happens after the tenth time (300 seconds for you).
Please, don’t even begin to compare our practices with the practices done by the “Japs”, in WWII…you embarrass yourself.
right2bright on May 7, 2009 at 9:37 AM
Anytime I see the Acronym CNN and the word “poll” in the same sentence, I instantly translate them to Bull Chips.
Tom_Shipley, Read Anns column. Asano, the only japanese officer charged with Water Torture, did not use the method YOU describe. I don’t know where you got that description, but the one in Ann’s column is accurate and described by actual witnesses. You know real facts as opposed to politically correct “good” facts.
dogsoldier on May 7, 2009 at 9:40 AM
I guess the testimony of this guy doesn’t qualify as “real facts”.
http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123046197
You’ll take Ann Coulter’s word over his? Notice how her column doesn’t cite ANY quotes, testimony, articles… nothing. She just says it. She’s saying what you guys want to hear without backing it up with any evidence. No wonder you guys lover her.
Tom_Shipley on May 7, 2009 at 9:50 AM
let’s see those polls in a few months.
sesquipedalian on May 7, 2009 at 9:50 AM
Why have my posts not been posted on this thread?
right2bright on May 7, 2009 at 11:17 AM
There it is, it seemed to be down for a couple of hours.
Tommy, my young man, just Google “Japanese torture for prisoners”, then spend about 15 minutes cruising.
Shocking, we are talking about 3 million (3,000,000) civilians killed, pushing prisoners of war off the cliffs just for fun, raping women as they were marching them to prison…almost as bad as reading some of your foolish posts.
After you read a few accounts, from actual survivors, I doubt you will honestly defend your position any longer…but then you are tom shipley, so nothing is beneath you.
right2bright on May 7, 2009 at 11:21 AM
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Waterboarding is long way from torture. See the BRAVEHEART or PASSION OF THE CHRIST movies to see what the real McCoy looks like. Abu Grahib “panties on the head” and a few dog bites don’t count either.
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Torture worked quite well when the prisoner really knew something valuable. Read about Guy Fawkes and how he gave up his GUNPOWDER PLOT co-conspirators after half an hour in the Tower of London dungeon.
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Or read about how Italian special police got the information on the Red Brigade terrorists. Sitting one of their members on a vice and tightening it up on his “private parts” resulted in the demise of this terrorist group.
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Israel has a special person who approves limited prisoner abuse when real information on upcoming attacks is proved.
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Trading hundreds of thousands of our innocent fellow citizens lives for so called TERRORIST RIGHTS is stupid. Remember how our fellow citizens jumped to their deaths from the World Trade Center rather than burning to death. Reality check time is here now.
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John Bibb
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rocketman on May 7, 2009 at 11:37 AM
Because they are not. I researched this very thoroughly. Only ONE japanese soldier was ever charged with water torture. He tortured a CIVILIAN and he used a very nasty form of it, nothing like what we use.
After WWII there was a great deal of official disinformation about prosecuting Japanese war criminals. I have seen the actual charge sheets. The facts of what really happened are startling.
The guy you quote is either deliberately lying or is misinformed. Other exhaustive research than mine also turned up the same FACTS I did. The actual paperwork of the trials and the charge sheets of the defendants have been reviewed numerous times.
MacArthur actually spared all but 15 senior members of the Japanese high command from trial, but many of the worst were set free to help run the new Japanese government. These FACTS were hidden from the American people for a very long time.
dogsoldier on May 7, 2009 at 12:01 PM
Ah, Shipley, I researched this further. You are quoting a third hand account of something THAT NEVER HAPPENED and accepting it as fact. Wow.
You need to learn how to research things. Look up Asano and you will see that he is in fact the only Japanese officer every charged with Water Torture. Further that it was the last charge on a sheet of war crimes listed in diminishing order of importance, out of 15.
dogsoldier on May 7, 2009 at 12:11 PM
First off, you’re not citing anything and passing off your opinion as fact.
Second, what proof do you have that what Chase Neilson’s testified to never happened?
Tom_Shipley on May 7, 2009 at 12:20 PM
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