You don’t say: Chrysler lenders ask judge for anonymity to avoid “threats”
posted at 7:29 pm on May 5, 2009 by Allahpundit
No, not the threats from the White House about siccing the White House press corps on them; there’s nothing anyone can do about those for the moment. They mean the threats they’ve been getting from America’s Obama cultists ever since The One waved his rhetorical pitchfork at them. The nutroots need an enemy, even in their moment of total victory, and right now the hedge funds fit the bill.
Represented by lawyer Gerard Uzzi of the firm White & Case, the group said its members may be subjected to threats and intimidation in part because of comments made by President Barack Obama, who chastised the opponents of an attempted deal to keep Chrysler out of bankruptcy.
“Never before has the president of the United States announced a chapter 11 filing in a national address,” the petition said.
“The president publicly chastised these secured creditors for having the temerity to enforce their constitutional rights in this court of law, branding them as ‘speculators,’ making clear that ‘I don’t stand with them.’”…
He asked the judge to keep the names under seal and argued that “denial of this relief will force several of these lenders to surrender their legal rights and agree to the government’s illegal plan.”
He added, “Those lenders that continue to seek to enforce their legal rights will be subjected to threats to their reputations and businesses, public attack, and threats to their safety publicly.”
As of late this afternoon, the motion’s been denied. And why not? Given the sort of hardball Obama’s playing, he would have just leaked the names to the press anyway. Remember, according to him, the only thing standing between big business and the angry mob is the sweet disposition of Hopenchange.
With news breaking right now that the AIG bonus pool was even bigger than thought, I wonder what sort of fish-on-the-doorstep he has planned for them to convince them to give back the money. Exit quotation from your must-read of the day: “I run an approximately twenty billion dollar money management firm that offers hedge funds as well as public mutual funds and unhedged traditional investments. My company is not involved in the Chrysler situation, but I am still aghast at the President’s comments (of course these are my own views not those of my company). Furthermore, for some reason I was not born with the common sense to keep it to myself, though my title should more accurately be called ‘Not Afraid Enough’ as I am indeed fearful writing this… It’s really a bad idea to speak out. Angering the President is a mistake and, my views will annoy half my clients. I hope my clients will understand that I’m entitled to my voice and to speak it loudly, just as they are in this great country.”
Blowback
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Hate monger riding a High Horse, he too will fall.
rob verdi on May 5, 2009 at 7:31 PM
Hey, in America no non-Messiah is above the Law*
*see Messiah
RBMN on May 5, 2009 at 7:32 PM
Some seriously f*cked up times we live in when the people who financed a company’s existence are being vilified for expecting their contracts to be honored.
BadgerHawk on May 5, 2009 at 7:33 PM
Oh, and I’m sure this news will cause private investors to flock to other union heavy companies **cough**GM**cough**.
BadgerHawk on May 5, 2009 at 7:34 PM
I wonder if Obama can be sued for instigating the mob … or directing their rage towards the target.
darwin on May 5, 2009 at 7:34 PM
And they call me crazy when I say the guy’s a Fascist…
Browncoatone on May 5, 2009 at 7:35 PM
The Obamanation to let loose
the Department of Homeland SecurityACORN in 5, …I wonder how many of these Obama supporting investors stocked up on guns and ammo. Not enough of them is my guess.
DannoJyd on May 5, 2009 at 7:36 PM
My official reaction can be found at 4:13.
Kid from Brooklyn on May 5, 2009 at 7:36 PM
And again, Obama was arguing in favor of the Unions for PRIVATE HEALTH CARE FOR THEIR RETIREES. That’s what their money is for. So he’s arguing against the Medicare national system for them. If they go bankrupt, they have Medicare. But going to Medicare for the Union was sacrificing too much.
These people loaned money. They loaned it expecting to get it back. They were willing to take less. They weren’t speculators. They gave 7 billion dollars and were hoping to get all of it, but were willing to take less than that. I wish I could tell my bank that I would give them half what my mortgage was.
Unfortunately cram down was defeated. I guess being in a union is a good idea.
ThackerAgency on May 5, 2009 at 7:36 PM
Ho hum…another week, another law-abiding American businessman in fear of his or her life for daring to defy Obama.
DarkKnight3565 on May 5, 2009 at 7:37 PM
Wonder if the judge will have “empathy” with these guys?
Likely not.
HondaV65 on May 5, 2009 at 7:37 PM
Trust me. They call you much worse than crazy. Much worse.
DannoJyd on May 5, 2009 at 7:37 PM
So…..are we approaching “high crimes and misdemeanors” yet?
/sarc
Chicago Way-In-Chief will never threaten personally. He has minions that are on the public role to do that. I wonder what ACORN is doing now……
Heh.
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on May 5, 2009 at 7:38 PM
That last link is most definitely a must read.
BadgerHawk on May 5, 2009 at 7:39 PM
The only way to fight a vicious mob is to be more ruthless than they are.
I don’t want gangs intimidating business … or people. These thugs need to be hit with their own tactics.
darwin on May 5, 2009 at 7:39 PM
If blowing things up is good enough for Hussein’s hero Bill Ayers, surely it’s good enough for the ACORN mobs. Right?
Guilty as hell. Free as a bird. What a wonderful country!
BardMan on May 5, 2009 at 7:39 PM
I’m looking forward to the DHS report from Napolitano about the dangers of Obama’s extremist followers.
Mark1971 on May 5, 2009 at 7:40 PM
It’s going to be a race to see if Pres. Obama can diminish the power of Wall Street on the economy before Wall Street diminishes his attempts at thuggery of the first order. I wish I thought he was doing these things because he is dumb but I think it intentional.
Cindy Munford on May 5, 2009 at 7:42 PM
Those uncooperative and unbowed Chrysler lenders better watch out or Barackito Obamalini will start using some of those predator drones that he is not going to use on AlQ in Pakistan on them.
MB4 on May 5, 2009 at 7:43 PM
Hopefully like Gen. Custard.
SouthernGent on May 5, 2009 at 7:43 PM
Like I said in the last thread on this topic: it’s the NRA all over again.
hicsuget on May 5, 2009 at 7:43 PM
The Cabinet?
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on May 5, 2009 at 7:43 PM
Its gonna be a long 4 years. Because I don’t see the Republicans getting their act together, even in states where they could win if they could just articulate a solution.
Iblis on May 5, 2009 at 7:44 PM
White House says Chrysler will not have to pay back billions loaned by US government. Obama has a “gift” and now so does the UAW.
Wethal on May 5, 2009 at 7:45 PM
HOW DO YOU DEFINE LIAR CROOK TREASON RACIST AMERICAN HATER IN ONE WORD
O B A M A
rone5847 on May 5, 2009 at 7:45 PM
Wouldn’t this be considered a “Hate” Crime from Obama?
HarryStar on May 5, 2009 at 7:45 PM
Obama’s ACORN training is really paying off.
What a class act.
cruadin on May 5, 2009 at 7:47 PM
Holding someone against a wall is torture, but ruining someone’s life is just fine. I guess it just depends on who “someone” is.
LibTired on May 5, 2009 at 7:47 PM
Its all laughs poking fun at Obama, but I really am coming to the conclusion that he really is trying to destroy America as we know it and have “economic justice for all”. The capitalism rewards work. Obama can’t stand this.
portlandon on May 5, 2009 at 7:47 PM
Sounds like it’s time for some people to buy a gun. If someone is dumb enough to bring a pitchfork to a gun fight. Oh well.
GarandFan on May 5, 2009 at 7:48 PM
I wonder if any of the union workers ever wondered what kind of retirement and healthcare funds they’d have if the union bosses hadn’t given it all to the Democrats over the last 70 years or so?
TugboatPhil on May 5, 2009 at 7:48 PM
Paul Craig Roberts: USA: no longer ruled by law
Rae on May 5, 2009 at 7:48 PM
Only those sheeple who have closed the eyes of their mind and are keeping them shut with ever increasing force do not see Barackito Obamalini as the fascist pig that he is.
MB4 on May 5, 2009 at 7:48 PM
this makes me very, very sad.
It isn’t that there aren’t corrupt businessmen/women. There are. That would be human nature. Ultimately, we allow the market to weed many of them out…they usually trip up somehow, somewhere.
But…to hear businesses and/or countrymen FEARING our president puts this on a whole new level. There is respect for the office, certainly, and the power therein. But, to fear it…that stinks of dictatorship…
and it makes me want to cry.
Mommypundit on May 5, 2009 at 7:49 PM
Now we`re a police state.
ThePrez on May 5, 2009 at 7:49 PM
Yes, AP, it is deserving of its own headline and graphic.
This is unbelievable. How is this whole thing not Watergate material?
PrincipledPilgrim on May 5, 2009 at 7:49 PM
I agree, I am starting to get creeped out by The Won and his tactics.
Cindy Munford on May 5, 2009 at 7:50 PM
Pictures of their kids……….
……… and the address to their schools,
and a bounty, of course……….
………………… The media? They are still licking off Obama’s secret sauce from their chins at the burger joint.
Seven Percent Solution on May 5, 2009 at 7:51 PM
The more I read about this man, the more I cannot believe how much democrats love him. Wait…
Mommypundit on May 5, 2009 at 7:51 PM
A large contribution to ACORN may be in order for BO to call off his dogs..?
d1carter on May 5, 2009 at 7:52 PM
He’s a thug. cement boots
suzyk on May 5, 2009 at 7:52 PM
I was creeped out before he was elected, honestly. But, this is the first time that I wish I wasn’t right…and am truly mournful over what we are collectively witnessing as Americans.
Ayn Rand was a visionary.
Mommypundit on May 5, 2009 at 7:53 PM
Amazing story. Simply amazing.
I am rather laughing, however, at quite a few well-heeled yuppies who voted for him and, no doubt, earn those heels via a lot of these major companies.
I betcha they are feeling sheepish.
AnninCA on May 5, 2009 at 7:53 PM
Be sure to check this out folks:
A “Speculator” Speaks Up Against Obama
—Ace
A hint of the content:
TheBigOldDog on May 5, 2009 at 7:54 PM
Due to the Presidents desire to have the tax payers pay for everything I found out today that I won’t have a job after the first of the year.
Cindy Munford on May 5, 2009 at 7:55 PM
Obama’s ego has run amok.
And why not? It’s not like anyone close to him, OR THE MSM, is telling him he’s just not all that.
Greg Toombs on May 5, 2009 at 7:55 PM
Obama’s problem, of course, is that he needs a lot of rich people to tax to pay for all of his programs.
Wethal on May 5, 2009 at 7:57 PM
My sincere condolences, and best wishes in finding a great alternative between now and then.
Greg Toombs on May 5, 2009 at 7:57 PM
Cindy Munford on May 5, 2009 at 7:55 PM
I’m so sorry. There are a lot of people out there who have suffered because of this Egocentric Socialist Bully. I hope you find something else before this job is through. God Bless.
kingsjester on May 5, 2009 at 7:57 PM
I say let him run amok, let him go as far as he wants to. At some point, he`ll go too far for a majority of Americans. Then he`ll be cast out.
I know it may be harsh to allow more damage to be done to this country. But we`re facing a Messiah-like figure with a willing MSM following. It may be the only way.
ThePrez on May 5, 2009 at 7:59 PM
There is nothing wrong with your coming life. Do not attempt to adjust your income. My teleprompter and I will control your income. If we wish to make you richer, we will lift up your income. If we wish to make you poorer, we will crush you with taxes. Do not attempt to live your own life. We will control your life. If we wish we can reduce your life to a living Hell, or sharpen it to Heavenly wonderfulness. We will control your ups. We will control your downs. We are the supreme law. For the next
four eight twelve sixteen twenty twenty four twenty eight thirty twothirty six years, sit very quietly and very obediently and we will control all that you see, hear and feel. You are about to experience the claw and misery which reaches from the inner delirium to THE OBAMALINI FASCIST NATION UNLIMITED.- Der Hochste Fuhrer Barackito Obamalini
MB4 on May 5, 2009 at 8:00 PM
This dictatorial regime practices pure liberal Fascism . . . how sad this country has become.
rplat on May 5, 2009 at 8:01 PM
Yeah I just a week or two away from losing my job. Have to hopr for a transfur to another location.
William Amos on May 5, 2009 at 8:01 PM
The threats from the people who are rabid aren’t anything new. There were reports of that against Black congresspeople who dared to support Hillary.
AnninCA on May 5, 2009 at 8:02 PM
If your business is in trouble, do not take government bailout money! It’s a deal with the devil. Go straight to chapter 11 if need be, but don’t take loans from the gangsters running the Government.
forest on May 5, 2009 at 8:02 PM
This is the article that AP links and says is a must-read.
PrincipledPilgrim on May 5, 2009 at 8:02 PM
If you missed it, check out what Don Luskin said on Kudlow regarding the veiled “loathsome ethnic stereotyping,” in the President’s comments.
Skip ahead to 2:41 if you’re short for time.
“Larry this whole episode is so shameful… the word he chose, “speculators,” how about “Money changes?” You know It almost starts taking on the tinge of a certain kind of loathsome ethnic stereotyping. I find it disgusting.”
TheBigOldDog on May 5, 2009 at 8:05 PM
He may have underestimated his target here. Obviously, the lawyers are now on pay.
That means, it won’t stay buried. The tactic will HAVE to be to push back publicly.
AnninCA on May 5, 2009 at 8:06 PM
Cindy Munford on May 5, 2009 at 7:55 PM
My best to you too Cindy.
TheBigOldDog on May 5, 2009 at 7:54 PM
Thanks for the link.
The scary thing is I have both American and Canadian citizenship, lived and worked in both countries and have fled to South Korea. I can’t envision going back to the United States anytime soon with the Messiah. And Canada’s taxation and fuel costs were just too insane. Financially, I’m better off staying here. I never thought I’d be happy that I was single with no kids and could flee the burning barn.
The more I keep following the news, I think I’ll just stay here and visit occasionally…
Canadian Infidel on May 5, 2009 at 8:07 PM
Sorry to hear that Cindy, it’s especially tough in these times to get work. I lost my job last Oct. and have been scratching by but at my age I have been through tough times before so this ain’t nothin’. These time will pass and we will come out stronger as a country and as a person. God is in charge is all I need to know.
thomasaur on May 5, 2009 at 8:07 PM
Mr. Obama would do well to remember Newton’s 3rd Law of Motion, to wit “To every action their is an equal and opposite reaction”
Strongarming creditors with threats of ridicule and ruin will result in fewer creditors willing to lend to cash strapped borrowers.
This President seems to have spent most of his time in the law library chatting up co-eds and not much time cracking his Econ books.
DrW on May 5, 2009 at 8:07 PM
Thanks for you concern, I am incredibly lucky because I am older and relatively safe. I wish I could say the same for many of my co-workers. And of course you wonder about those who voted for him.
Cindy Munford on May 5, 2009 at 8:09 PM
I’m sorry to hear that. Many of us will be in your shoes, perhaps sooner than we expect. May this be a minor blip as you adapt and overcome liberal-caused adversity.
P.S. I appreciate your shout-outs to Hawkdriver.
NaCly dog on May 5, 2009 at 8:10 PM
Due to the Presidents desire to have the tax payers pay for everything I found out today that I won’t have a job after the first of the year.
Cindy Munford on May 5, 2009 at 7:55 PM
Sorry to hear that Cindy… I fear you won’t be the last. Hang tough.
Drunken Angry Clown on May 5, 2009 at 8:11 PM
What a joke. That whole administration is a complete joke. Those people that voted for the joke deserve to fail electing a complete moron to office.
deidre on May 5, 2009 at 8:11 PM
Maybe time for these guys to arm up and hire some muscle to take care of the intimidators. Obama wants to act like Tony Soprano then let him and his stooges go to the matresses.
kens on May 5, 2009 at 8:11 PM
Here’s another:
Oh snap!
Rae on May 5, 2009 at 8:12 PM
There are starting to be too many folks to thank without hijacking the thread. Thanks to all and best wishes to those in the same boat. I agree that we will come back better but I still think the president is a creep.
Cindy Munford on May 5, 2009 at 8:12 PM
Connsensus forecast: 580,000-810,000 jobs lost in April
MB4 on May 5, 2009 at 8:12 PM
To all who have lost jobs or will soon, in your future endeavors try to do as much work ‘off of the books’ as posible and starve the beast that is trying to consume us.
thomasaur on May 5, 2009 at 8:13 PM
Sorry for your news but, on the bright side, you have a few months to re-group and move forward. Here in Michigan (aka the way ALL America will look after four years of the filthy liar), the norm before being laid off is more like two weeks.
It took me five months to find employment and it involves moving out of Michigan into a more forward-looking part of America (which doesn’t give the unions a seat at the table for all decisions made by an idiot Governor who should be deported back to Canada for her crimes against the state). I’m not downplaying the emotions you must be going through just pointing out that there is opportunity out there but it definitely takes time and effort these days.
highhopes on May 5, 2009 at 8:16 PM
UPDATE: Patriots are being asked to call or write in support of Thomas Lauria, the whistleblower who outed Obama’s thuggary. Mr. Tom Lauria’s website is: http://www.whitecase.com. Click HERE for additional contact information.
Mutnodjmet on May 5, 2009 at 8:16 PM
OUTRAGE OF THE DAY: Taxpayers Won’t Get Chrysler “Loan” Back
As we noted this morning, lawyers representing Chrysler said in court yesterday that the government would not be getting its $8 billion of loans back, including about $4 billion in debtor-in-possession financing.
Well that news was so stunning — so obviously an admission that the bankruptcy itself is a bailout to the union — that we had a hard time believing it. But it’s totally true.
MB4 on May 5, 2009 at 8:18 PM
I was idled for about five months. I don’t show up in any of the statistics that show just how much the Democrat-run state of Michigan is killing off the productive to prop up labor unions and other anti-American organizations. The laughably inadequate “unemployment benefits” aren’t worth filing for because it makes you part of a system that is completely and utterly broken.
highhopes on May 5, 2009 at 8:20 PM
Thanks for the information. I can just imagine how many death threats he is getting from the Obama cult.
deidre on May 5, 2009 at 8:22 PM
I have to say, as bad as I thought an Obama presidency would be, I didn’t think it would be THIS bad, THIS quickly.
Unbelievable!
Common Sense on May 5, 2009 at 8:24 PM
No, seriously I am very very lucky, I will be fine. Like I said it is mostly the young mothers, divorced supporting their children and mortgages. Do you like the place you moved?
Cindy Munford on May 5, 2009 at 8:24 PM
Ah yes. Michigan. My home state. Born and raised in Saginaw. Went to Grand Valley State for undergrad. Bought a house in Otsego and worked as a postdoctoral fellow in Grand Rapids.
Why do you think I now live, work, raise my family in Indiana?
/rhetorical
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on May 5, 2009 at 8:25 PM
It’s snowballing, I love it.
Cindy Munford on May 5, 2009 at 8:26 PM
Chicago thuggery only works well when the victims are frightened into silence. It didn’t work here. And it will be even less of a threat the next time.
Wethal on May 5, 2009 at 8:27 PM
Interesting comment thread over at Business Insider. It’s fascinating just how much contortion some people will go through to defend The Won.
Quisp on May 5, 2009 at 8:27 PM
Sorry to hear about your job, Cindy. You are welcome in Indiana. We’re holding our own!
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on May 5, 2009 at 8:28 PM
Acts of kindness have way of doing that.
thomasaur on May 5, 2009 at 8:30 PM
It won’t work. Obama is not as powerful as people think. Yes, he has the bully pulpit, but use it incorrectly, and he did in this case, will land you right in a viper’s nest with the country’s CEOs and an army of lawyers.
Let me remind you what happened to Martha Stewart when she took on the boys.
Well, the president isn’t above being taken to the woodshed, either.
And he’s there. They now have a pattern built up. He sics the naive fans, creating an irresponsible backlash, and then gets his way.
Well, these folks aren’t stupid. They have the gameplan now.
And I am guessing they are much brighter.
(Nevermind the idiocy of the derivatives…)
AnninCA on May 5, 2009 at 8:32 PM
That money was more than enough to satisfy the bond holders’ demands in this negotiations. The government did this out of contempt. In other words this is them saying. . . ‘yeah we had the money, but we’d rather flush it down the toilet than give it to you’.
Imagine a divorce where a man burns down his house rather than having to give it to his wife. That’s what Obama and OUR Federal government did yesterday.
ThackerAgency on May 5, 2009 at 8:32 PM
I swear I don’t think there are nicer people anywhere in the world then the folks here at HA. With the obvious exceptions, of course, but we won’t think about them.
Cindy Munford on May 5, 2009 at 8:33 PM
The law being, of all things, the Stimulus. Timmy is beginning to act like he’s above the law, too.
Wethal on May 5, 2009 at 8:33 PM
The deal would have gone through as structured by the government if that money had gone to the credit holders.
This really is criminal. And it is more criminal than Blago. It is more criminal than anything I’ve ever seen from the government. It is just bullying with taxpayer dollars.
ThackerAgency on May 5, 2009 at 8:34 PM
Well, Thacker…..they agreed to it. It was a bully pulpit move, but unless they stop it, then it’s not illegal in the least.
AnninCA on May 5, 2009 at 8:36 PM
I’m sorry to read this. I hope you find a good replacement job.
Loxodonta on May 5, 2009 at 8:40 PM
Best wishes, Cindy. Hope something comes along.
Wethal on May 5, 2009 at 8:52 PM
Do I like where I’m moving? (I’m heading out Friday.)
That’s more complicated a question than it appears. I like the lifestyle and people of Western Michigan. There is a solid Midwestern work ethic and traditional values to the point that I sometimes find myself being called a radical liberal! It is a great place to raise a family and make a life if you can find a job (which isn’t all that easy these days). I would stay here if I could.
I’m moving to the DC area. It’s where I was raised and where my extended family still lives so in some respects it is a “homecoming” after twenty years of living all over the country. It’s not just the geography that is changing, it is also the lifestyle. From the employment standpoint it was a no-brainer to make the move because it is one of those jobs that you apply for assuming that they already know who they want (and it isn’t you). It is still a shock I actually got an interview as part of the final cut- let alone being offered the job. Factoring cost of living, the money is essentially a wash but the job security and potential for advancement is much better in the new position.
Still, each lifestyle choice comes with trade-offs. I’m leaving a community with a small-town feel where I know my neighbors and they know me and headed into the belly of the beast that is the DC Metropolitan Area. My commute hasn’t been more than 10 miles for the last decade and I’m looking at closer to 20 miles and 50 minutes of bumper-to-bumper traffic in the new job. It’s also a far more urban lifestlye than I like (not a good thing) but with far more diversity than Western Michigan (which is a good thing in the sense that in 2009 it is still jolting to look out at a crowd of hundreds and not being able to see anybody that doesn’t look just like you).
Sorry for the rambling post but your question crystalized the emotions I’ve been dealing with ever since I knew I was going to make the move. It’s somewhat theraputic to put these emotions into words. I’m excited about the move but it is also bittersweet because of the lifestyle and the people I’m leaving behind. Thanks for the opportunity to vent and I hope you quickly find new employment.
highhopes on May 5, 2009 at 8:53 PM
Obama is just a bully and a thug. He’s managed so far on the initial goodwill and pure partisanship but, as you point out, the business elite will not stand for much more of the kind of thuggery seen with the car companies or banking industry. It may not be in public but, IMO, a coup is coming where the corporate elite tell the government that they will not abide with the edicts coming from a man that is acting like a third-world dictator.
highhopes on May 5, 2009 at 9:00 PM
If so, I pray the dads and moms have guns. Large guns. Locked and loaded. Examples need to be made.
How do we stop this freaking maniac, sh!t excuse of a president?!?!?!?!?
Spectreman on May 5, 2009 at 9:00 PM
I worked with 5 CEOs of a Fortune 100 company. I guarantee they will do exactly what you say.
Obama is out of his league, frankly.
AnninCA on May 5, 2009 at 9:03 PM
Wow, that will be a change but at least you won’t be going in blind. I moved for the first time in my life when I was 42. It threw me for a loop. In truth I won’t have to work but not working isn’t me. This might be the boost needed to get us back home. D.C. pretty pricey. Any chance you like the Redskins?
Cindy Munford on May 5, 2009 at 9:04 PM
I feel ya, playa. My wife worked at Pharmacia (Upjohn) before Pfizer “acquired” the company. We were only 2-3 hours away from all of our family is eastern central Michigan. It was great for day trips. My town (Otsego) was a lot like you described for a typical West Michigan town. With the way the Democrats have run that state into the ground, my wife and I will never move back to Michigan. We’re stuck in Indianapolis, and we kinda like it that way. I’m trying to convince my mom to move to Indy when she retires (and my Grandma finally returns to be with my Grandpa who passed 20+ years ago……I’m not holding my breath. Grandma will probably outlive all of us!).
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on May 5, 2009 at 9:06 PM
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