Dodd: We prosecuted the Nazis so let’s prosecute Bush
posted at 4:40 pm on May 4, 2009 by Allahpundit
Via Moe Lane. No, he’s not saying that waterboarding terrorists is as evil as genocide, but he does seem to be saying that both are sufficiently evil as to require prosecution. I’d be curious to know how and where he draws the line on prosecutorial discretion, then: When is something so “evil” that we must proceed to trial, damn the policy consequences? David Shribman wonders:
The pre-eminent point here is that in the United States, sitting presidents and winning political parties don’t sit in legal judgment of their predecessors. If they do not like their policies, and many times they do not, they change policies. They do not sue their predecessors nor seek to punish them legally. This custom has prevailed in times of severe crisis as much as in serene times.
There are myriad examples. Jimmy Carter did not seek to prosecute Henry A. Kissinger for complicity in the invasion of Cambodia and involvement in Chile, two actions that might be regarded as peculiarly subject to legal review. Richard M. Nixon did not seek to prosecute Lyndon B. Johnson for the illegal wiretapping of Martin Luther King’s bathroom and bedroom, which King did not know about until Thurgood Marshall informed him in 1964. Nor did Nixon take any action about the illegal taping of White House conversations in the Johnson years.
VDH adds some perspective:
I’ve raised this example twice now. But, really, how is waterboarding a known detained terrorist like Khalid Sheik Mohammed (who confessed to cutting off Daniel Pearl’s head [with two knives after the first went dull], and to planning the 9/11 mass murder) at Guantanamo considered a war crime, while blowing up with a Predator drone suspected terrorists (and all those, including women and children, in their general vicinity) not?
The latter victims were not given habeas corpus, and Miranda rights, and there is a greater doubt about their guilt from 10,000 feet than is the case with the much studied psychopath KSM in Guantanamo. Most suspects would prefer to be water-boarded than vaporized? Ditto the Somali pirates, whose heads were blown off during their apparent attempts at negotiating extortion, again a bit more drastic than waterboarding. Would a future President Sanford or Giuliani be right to bring charges against those in the Obama administration who green lighted assassinations of suspected terrorists—something akin to the Phoenix program in Vietnam?
It’s the Jon Stewart/Harry Truman dilemma again: When is it wrong to inflict suffering on captives in hopes of averting greater suffering later? Why do we need a Nuremberg for waterboarders but not one for drone operators who occasionally incinerate Pakistani families based on bad intel?
Below the Dodd clip, a little further perspective from Coulter on the left’s insufferable sanctimony on this subject.
Blowback
Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.
Trackbacks/Pings
Trackback URL
Comments
Comment pages: « Previous 1 2 3 Next »
AND a lilly livered turncoat cowardly rump
scalleywag on May 4, 2009 at 5:40 PM
Colter to BayWhore:
“Do you want to be aborted, ‘cuz I think you support abortion”
pwned!!
gregbert on May 4, 2009 at 5:41 PM
I didn”t see Dodd (nor have I heard anyone else) make that distinction. Most of these radical leftists believe that there is no distinction and that all war in any form is a crime.
nolapol on May 4, 2009 at 5:42 PM
So, does everyone who voted for Bush have to go thru de-Nazification?
Blake on May 4, 2009 at 5:43 PM
hell ya
blatantblue on May 4, 2009 at 5:44 PM
We prosecuted Countrywide so let’s prosecute Dodd !!!
Simmons for Senate 2010 !
Steve Z on May 4, 2009 at 5:44 PM
I think that would be a RLTA (Really Late Term Abortion). The same could be applied to justify the death penalty for our leftist friends.
Annar on May 4, 2009 at 5:45 PM
I mean really, as Obama is continuing to authorize predator strikes on members of the Taliban – who at the time are not in the field of battle, have not been convicted of anything and where undoubtedly family and friends are also being killed – where does he get off with moral posturing about “torture”? Want to bet those who got a hellfire missile dropped on their noggins wouldn’t rather undergo a little waterboarding?
AmericanUnderground on May 4, 2009 at 5:45 PM
Americans are starting wake up to the fact that liberalism is a progressive mental disorder that only gets worse. Liberalism is obssessed with control of other people physically and mentally to degree they become tools. Conservatives just want to be left the f^^k alone. Liberals are not going to stop so the conservatives better start. The hate is going to become unbearable if it goes unchecked. When hate mongerers like Garafalo and Perez Hilton (not his real name) openly attack innocent citizens, there is no place to hide.
volsense on May 4, 2009 at 5:47 PM
With these people as the adults-in-charge is it any wonder the world wants us dead?
Limerick on May 4, 2009 at 5:49 PM
fkcin jerk off
blatantblue on May 4, 2009 at 5:50 PM
He’s the same as Specter, Frank, Murtha, Pelosi, and Reid, among others. Feeding off the people and offering absolutely nothing in return but righteous indignation and arrogance who like the boots of lobbyists and special interest groupss. They’re nothing but a bunch of chair warmers and for the life of me I will NEVER understand how anyone could cast of vote for this lot. Mind boggling.
scalleywag on May 4, 2009 at 5:50 PM
wow i cant wait tp put into the sociale security syustem for old leftist shitheadas like this ODB
blatantblue on May 4, 2009 at 5:51 PM
ORIGHTEOUS ONE? He could care less what Bush did to terrorists, he’s got a score to settle. It’s not enough that “he won”, Nancy wants more, and more she will get.
scalleywag on May 4, 2009 at 5:54 PM
Caesar marched on Rome with a single legion and won. If he were alive today he could march on DC with a willow switch and the U.S. Government would capitulate.
Limerick on May 4, 2009 at 5:56 PM
apparently lying about oral sex is evil enough.
sesquipedalian on May 4, 2009 at 5:59 PM
Perjury and obstruction of justice are indeed high crimes and misdemeanors.
anuts on May 4, 2009 at 6:02 PM
now that’s funny. I have a scenario…let’s just suppose that terrorists somehow manage to kidnap our president and wisk him overseas to hold him in some cave. We actually capture the ringleader of this group, and send him to Guantanamo. The guy knows where he is, but he ain’t talking. What to do? Lollipop him into submission? Call in the unicorns?
scalleywag on May 4, 2009 at 6:02 PM
And anyone who takes an oath to be POTUS knows that.
scalleywag on May 4, 2009 at 6:03 PM
This is why The Left hates Ann
Joy looked so smug sitting there thinking she was going to cutely get Ann to back off with her well rehearsed & practiced “GOTCHA” question and Ann just smiles & immediately swings it right back at her.
Son of Sam Kinison on May 4, 2009 at 6:03 PM
as is conspiracy to commit torture, a crime codified as a felony under 18 USC 2040A(c), punishable by a prison term of up to 20 years per offense, and a blatant violation of the 8th, which prohibits “cruel and unusual punishments.”
sesquipedalian on May 4, 2009 at 6:05 PM
Come on now blatantblue…tell us how you really feel, don’t hold back! ;-) HEHEHEHE!
P.S. I completely agree with all the descriptions of Dodd you used…well done!
Liberty or Death on May 4, 2009 at 6:07 PM
Then quit being girlyparts and do it. You have the House. You have the Senate. You have the WH. You have the Pentagon.
Do it. Drop the hammer. Cram the cells full and let the trials begin.
What?
You can’t?
Like I said, girlyparts.
Limerick on May 4, 2009 at 6:07 PM
It’s a felony, as a matter of fact. Tell us again why Clinton was above the law.
And before you do, let me remind you that Clintoj’s Justice Department had already successfully prosecuted a female Federal employee…for lying under oath about sex.
Del Dolemonte on May 4, 2009 at 6:11 PM
The saddest thing to me about the whole Dodd situation is that if his polling stays in the crapper, the Dems will just bounce him in the primary and be done with him. Thus, he’ll just end up being replaced in the Senate with another brain-dead Donkey with a moronic lack of perspective that leads one to think waterboarding is as bad, or worse, than what went on in Auschwitz or Dachau.
For some reason, when a Republican like Mark Foley or Larry Craig behaves like an ass, the whole party is somehow to blame as well. However, when a Democrat misbehaves, it’s all the individual officeholder’s fault, and the party as a whole never suffers any negative publicity.
djm1992 on May 4, 2009 at 6:11 PM
Give the Obamination a few years and we can try him for what he would love to do to his own people.
Grafted on May 4, 2009 at 6:11 PM
Dude, it matters not.
Bush and Cheney are getting sued!
Gotta love America for perfecting the paradigm of proof by lawsuit.
American litigation even brought down the pederast priests, the only country in the world that could have done it.
Even if Bush and Cheney just get aggro’d in the history books that will ensure this doesn’t happen again.
MY country doesn’t torture.
strangelet on May 4, 2009 at 6:11 PM
Clinton’s
Del Dolemonte on May 4, 2009 at 6:12 PM
I think like someone said a week or so ago that maybe Dodd and his ilk need to hang from a 1500 foot ledge with a raging inferno inside before they can even fathom what waterboarding was trying to prevent.
scalleywag on May 4, 2009 at 6:12 PM
you live in a f*ckin fantasy land, chick
blatantblue on May 4, 2009 at 6:13 PM
I meant, even if Bush and Cheney just get OJ’d in the history books!
hahahahaha!
The Torture President…..what a legacy.
strangelet on May 4, 2009 at 6:14 PM
LOL, good luck with that “conspiracy” part, kid.
Del Dolemonte on May 4, 2009 at 6:14 PM
We shall see, blue, we shall see.
;)
strangelet on May 4, 2009 at 6:15 PM
So are those silly protestors and multiple reporters involved in waterboarding up for twenty years?
anuts on May 4, 2009 at 6:15 PM
Maybe strangelet needs to see the video of 9/11 again to see what kind of enemy we’re dealing with here. These are not PEOPLE we’re dealing with, they are sub humans intent on mass murder and destruction.
scalleywag on May 4, 2009 at 6:16 PM
i don’t have either, chickenhawk.
sesquipedalian on May 4, 2009 at 6:16 PM
As I told you last night, dear, American litigation also proved that a Democrat President committed felony perjury. That crime provides for a minimum 3 year prison term.
American litigation also proved that Iraq was involved in the 9/11 attacks.
What a country!
Del Dolemonte on May 4, 2009 at 6:17 PM
you do!
do you think that a mujahid would show you any MERCY?
thatd ahmad ibn asuud ibn muhammad ibn asif ibn tariik ibn sayyid ibn raqii ibn gadhan ibn faisal would be LESS inclined to blow your ass up, because Obama stopped “torture?!”
blatantblue on May 4, 2009 at 6:17 PM
scalleywag on May 4, 2009 at 6:18 PM
Ha ha ha. Coulter is a bit strong for my taste – sometimes. I had not seen that clip of her before. Good lord. I need a towel for that one. So. Dam. Funny.
watson007 on May 4, 2009 at 6:18 PM
AHAHAH, what are you, 12 years old?
scalleywag on May 4, 2009 at 6:19 PM
LOL. Chickenhawk?
As Bob Uecker once said, “That one was a bit outside”.
Limerick on May 4, 2009 at 6:19 PM
Thanks for the laugh. Didn’t you in fact vote for a “chickenhawk” for President in 2008?
And what about the empty suit Democrat you voted for in 2004? He refused to release all of his military records to the public. Still does.
BTW in our solar system, a chickenhawk describes a family of vicious predatory birds. Some of them can kill animals many times heavier than they are. And what they do to what they catch is positively gruesome.
Del Dolemonte on May 4, 2009 at 6:21 PM
chick strangelet answer my QUESTION!
blatantblue on May 4, 2009 at 6:22 PM
LMAO! You actually quoted USC, you do realize that’s United States Code, in other words the laws of the United States that are used to govern the people of the United States and therefore it does not apply to illegal enemy combatants capture on a foreign battlefield.
Furthermore the Geneva Convention (GC) does not apply to illegal enemy combatants, e.g., those that do not wear the uniform of a recognized nation or fight under the flag of a recognized nation while conducting war. In addition, our enemies (the illegal enemy combatants) are not signatures to the GC, therefore they are once again not protected under the GC as it would be pointless for the US to abide by the GC when our enemies have no intention (as they have demonstrated numerous times) of complying with it, especially considering they are not signatures to the GC!
So your assertion ridiculous, our enemy is not even covered under the GC let alone US laws like habeas corpus, etc! Besides that how the US has conducted itself in this war when compared to how fascist Islam has conducted itself is proof enough the US has the moral high ground and that there is no moral equivalence no matter how you and your ilk try and spin it, face it not only is your moral compass broken your survival is at risk since it is obvious you cannot differentiate between good and evil in this issue!
There is no moral equivalence in this situation and you know it sesq!
Liberty or Death on May 4, 2009 at 6:23 PM
“now that’s funny. I have a scenario…let’s just suppose that terrorists somehow manage to kidnap our president and wisk him overseas to hold him in some cave. We actually capture the ringleader of this group, and send him to Guantanamo. The guy knows where he is, but he ain’t talking. What to do? Lollipop him into submission? Call in the unicorns?”
WE CELEBRATE BIGTIME!!!!!
Fuzzlenutter on May 4, 2009 at 6:24 PM
So then do we prosecute Dodd when chairman of the banking committee who received below market interest rates on loans as we would a civil servant who got a new car at a price below market after negotiating a purchase from them for the government. If not, why not.
amr on May 4, 2009 at 6:25 PM
How dare this son of a b**ch say anything… about anything! A few weeks ago he came out and BLATANTLY LIED to the American people, saying he had nothing to do with the AIG bonuses (while all of his friends were expressing outrageous outrage). The very next day he comes out and says ‘yeah, I wrote the amendment so they could keep their bonuses, because Geithner told me to’. A complete 180. Shouldn’t it be some sort of crime for a sitting member of the federal government to blatantly lie, when it’s completely provable that they did so deliberately?
And I’m not even getting in to “Friends of Angelo”. What are you doing, America? Why are you allowing these people to hold office?
RightWinged on May 4, 2009 at 6:27 PM
You just owned that lil bird
blatantblue on May 4, 2009 at 6:27 PM
Why is this man not in prison???????
alwyr on May 4, 2009 at 6:28 PM
hahahahah, because they WON
scalleywag on May 4, 2009 at 6:30 PM
Dodd would like to prosecute ANYBODY to get the spotlight off him. He’s the one who should be prosecuted for a number of unethical offenses.
afotia on May 4, 2009 at 6:31 PM
padilla is an American citizen. so is john walker lindh.
i’m a liberal. i use words liberally.
sesquipedalian on May 4, 2009 at 6:31 PM
The good news for us is that the media is so nasty with paparazzi tactics today, that it’s working both ways.
AnninCA on May 4, 2009 at 6:34 PM
I don’t care about prosecuting anybody over waterboarding terrorists, but I ABSOLUTELY believe we should waterboard any “Friend of Angelo” that is in congress
Star20 on May 4, 2009 at 6:35 PM
the UN convention against torture was signed by reagan in 1984. it says “no exceptional circumstances whatsoever, whether a state of war or a threat or war, internal political instability or any other public emergency, may be invoked as a justification of torture.”
reagan’s statement: “The United States participated actively and effectively in the negotiation of the Convention… Each State Party is required either to prosecute torturers who are found in its territory or to extradite them to other countries for prosecution.”
sesquipedalian on May 4, 2009 at 6:37 PM
When will we waterboard Dodd and Bahar? I would pay money to see that!
orlandocajun on May 4, 2009 at 6:39 PM
Chris Dodd should be waterboarded for the the rest of his life.
WisCon on May 4, 2009 at 6:39 PM
chris dodd fannie mae freddie mac barney frank birds of a feather.these people should be in prison ,the lap dog press will never have that.you people in washington are a poison to the rest of the country.
wade underhile on May 4, 2009 at 6:42 PM
If I was King, he’s be hanged in Times Square on when the ball dropped at 11:59. Well, only because we’d already strung up Frank, Pelosi, and Reid and Obama a few minutes earlier.
marklmail on May 4, 2009 at 6:43 PM
sesquipedalian:
Yes, and as we all know the UN is such a moral authority on torture. snort.
I don’t think water boarding is torture. I don’t think most critics even do really. I just think it is the current smug sanctimonious talking point and so they are beating it to death.
But the point that is overlooked here is that only 3 people were waterboarded, it was years ago, none of them were left impaired in any way and they gave up information that saved lives.
The Congress had oversight of this program and they did not stop it. Even now the military uses waterboarding in their SERE training.
The truth is Saddam could have tortured half his population and wiped the other half of the face of the earth and none of these of this hypocrites would care.
The Iranians can torture, behead and lynch people for their politics and it is not a big deal to anyone except conservatives and Israelis.
But waterboarding a mass murderer who knew of plans to murder more? Oh the horror!
You know what? I am sure that when Reagan was president some tactics were used in the cold war that you would consider torture today. You mention him only because you think you will gain some upper hand. You won’t.
Terrye on May 4, 2009 at 6:51 PM
Dodd and his butt buddy Frank need to be prosecuted. They have cost the country far more money than the war on terrorism with their man made disaster on Freddy and Fanny.
Wade on May 4, 2009 at 6:51 PM
Uh, the second getalife you cite was captured on a foreign battlefield however, and the group he was “working for” doesn’t fall under GC rulings.
You need to study the law somewhere other than Moe Howard University.
Del Dolemonte on May 4, 2009 at 6:51 PM
It caught Joy in her usual expression, LOL.
kirkill on May 4, 2009 at 6:51 PM
Actually, Reagan used some tactics in the war on terror that the Left considered torture, namely dropping a bomb down the smokestack of Daffy Qadaffi’s tent one night. As I recall, one of Daffy’s kids was killed in said attack.
Del Dolemonte on May 4, 2009 at 6:53 PM
Can Clinton be tried for bombing an aspirin factory. What is worse than a bad headache and no aspirin?
Wade on May 4, 2009 at 6:56 PM
First of all what do Padilla and Lindh have to do with the price of rice in China? Secondly your response only proves my point, when the two people you mentioned above were discovered to be American citizens they were provided their US constitutional rights under habeas corpus and were given due process as was evident by the fact they were tried, convicted, and sentenced in a US court of law and not by a military tribunal!
Therefore the lefts argument of the US (Darth Cheney/Bushitler) usurping people’s constitutional rights in the war against fascist Islam is absolute BS and is proven to be BS by the very fact the two people you mention above were not whisked away to Gitmo and never given their due process under US laws!
However you specifically quoted USC when it came to what you call “torture” and how it was illegal, well as I pointed out in my earlier comment USC does not apply to illegal enemy combatants (or foreign citizens for that matter) however in the few cases in which a captured illegal enemy combatant turned out to be an American citizen they were given their right to a fair trial in a US court, they were given their due process under US law, but again they were American citizens and thus have all their due rights under the US constitution, however those same rights (habeas corpus, GC, etc.) DO NOT apply to illegal enemy combatants that are not US citizens!
So again I ask, what do Padilla and Lindh have to do with the fact that illegal enemy combatants (that are not US citizens) do not have any protections under the GC, let alone US law?
It’s really not a difficult question or concept, yet you are obviously having difficulty!
Liberty or Death on May 4, 2009 at 6:56 PM
I think the point to doing all this now, is in the hopes that if there are riots when the pics are released and if people die, then the socalled pacifists can make hay of the mayhem. That is what it is about, getting power and keeping power. The whole torture thing is just demagoguery. Bush said we did not torture too and yet these people want to punish him. And he was right, we do not torture, we never did.
Terrye on May 4, 2009 at 6:56 PM
Dodd: We prosecuted the Nazis so let’s prosecute Bush
My answer to Dodd, while were at the business of prosecuting people you go first.
Dr Evil on May 4, 2009 at 6:57 PM
Busted strange one! You’re not even an American you sick twisted freak. No one uses “agro” except the stupid Brits. Pay attention to your own f*ucked up country. No wonder you quote so much from British rags and tabloids.
You need to be banned you hypocritical twit!
CattyConservative on May 4, 2009 at 6:58 PM
Liberty or Death:
If I remember correctly Barack Obama has stated that the people held in Afghanistan do not have these rights either under his administration.
Terrye on May 4, 2009 at 6:58 PM
strangelet:
Bush and Cheney did not torture people. They did not torture people anymore than Clinton or Obama did.
You are a liar.
Terrye on May 4, 2009 at 6:59 PM
Catty:
American or not, she does not know what torture is. Anything other than love and kisses is torture to this little hater. That is strangelet’s problem: hate.
Terrye on May 4, 2009 at 7:01 PM
i mention him because he signed it.
where he was captured is completely immaterial.
sesquipedalian on May 4, 2009 at 7:01 PM
The truth is people like strangelet have just made it more likely that people will be sent off to countries like Egypt or Turkey or Jordan where they will be treated a great deal worse. That is what rendition is. There will be no media to care, no watch dog groups to visit them in jail, no antiAmerican hypocrites to obsess over their plight. No, they can just disappear and no one will care.
Terrye on May 4, 2009 at 7:03 PM
What are these two trolls going on about?
We did not torture anyone.
Maybe, when they are done posting their cut-and-paste non-sequiturs, they could helpfully frame the “debate” by defining what is and is not “torture”.
A Balrog of Morgoth on May 4, 2009 at 7:04 PM
ses:
You mentioned him because he signed it? yeah right, and I bet you supported his central American policies too.
Like I said the UN is such a moral authority. What have they ever done about routine torture anywhere? Other than put the countries responsible on the UN Humans Rights Commission I mean?
Even if Reagan signed it, it does not change anything. The Bush administration never said they tortured anymore than the CIA said they tortured during the Cold War.
Terrye on May 4, 2009 at 7:06 PM
AQ ain’t no party state and neither is the Taliban nor any other illegal enemy combatant, therefore again your assertion is wrong!
If our enemies want protection under the GC then they need to abide by one of the most important provisions of the GC which is wage war wearing the uniform/insignia/flag of a recognized member state or they are (according to the GC) to be considered mercenaries, illegal enemy combatants and are therefore not protected under the GC!
Until our enemies sign on to the GC and abide by them then as far as I’m concerned they get what they deserve, besides, if you want to talk about people/entities that abuse human rights, commit war crimes, etc. you need to look at AQ, the Taliban et al because they are the poster thugs for abusing human rights and committing war crimes my friend, and again if you can’t tell the difference between them and the US then your moral compass is damaged and you do not have the ability to tell the difference between good an evil…PERIOD!
Liberty or Death on May 4, 2009 at 7:08 PM
I think that if Reagan had been president when planes were being flown into buildings here in the United States, waterboarding would have been the least of what the terrorists would have been facing.
And Reagan would not have considered it torture either, he would have considered it protecting the American people from future attack. After all, that is what Presidents are supposed to do.
Terrye on May 4, 2009 at 7:08 PM
I’ve come to believe this is the hard Left’s last stand.
They need to save face after being wrong about the Iraq War, so they’re trying to end this thing with their dignity intact by means of a technical fight over the meaning of the word “torture.”
Maybe they could stage a dramatic depiction of some fake helicopters pulling G.I. Joe dolls off the roof a fake American Embassy in Iraq? They could get Lieutenant John F. Kerry to pilot a Swift Boat for support!
jeff_from_mpls on May 4, 2009 at 7:12 PM
So when are you self rightous liberals going to call for the prosecution of President Clinton,his administration and intelligence agents that participated in torture including Panetta,head of Obama’s CIA.
You know,Obama who practices rendition,enhanced interrogation,and holding combatants indefinitely as we speak:
Audio: Clinton endorses “torture” in special cases; Update: World opinion opposes “torture”
posted at 12:30 am on October 19, 2006 by Allahpundit
http://hotair.com/archives/2006/10/19/audio-clinton-endorses-torture-in-special-cases/
I believe these guys that suffered under Clinton could have only dreamed to be water boarded:
CIA-backed team used brutal means to break up terrorist cell in Albania
By Andrew Higgins and Christopher Cooper
THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
But when it comes to liberals and their selective moral outrage,they have a blind eye to the practices by their liberal heroes that they give a pass while they whine and cry about everybody else.
Baxter Greene on May 4, 2009 at 7:14 PM
What goes around comes around Dodd.
jbh45 on May 4, 2009 at 7:14 PM
So when are you self rightous liberals going to call for the prosecution of President Clinton,his administration and intelligence agents that participated in torture including Panetta,head of Obama’s CIA.
You know,Obama who practices rendition,enhanced interrogation,and holding combatants indefinitely as we speak:
Audio: Clinton endorses “torture” in special cases; Update: World opinion opposes “torture”
posted at 12:30 am on October 19, 2006 by Allahpundit
http://hotair.com/archives/2006/10/19/audio-clinton-endorses-torture-in-special-cases/
I believe these guys that suffered under Clinton could have only dreamed to be water boarded:
CIA-backed team used brutal means to break up terrorist cell in Albania
By Andrew Higgins and Christopher Cooper
THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
But when it comes to liberals and their selective moral outrage,they have a blind eye to the practices by their liberal heroes that they give a pass while they whine and cry about everybody else.
Baxter Greene on May 4, 2009 at 7:15 PM
both of them were allegedly waterboarded and otherwise mistreated – for example, jwl was captured with a bullet in his body but was not given medical care for two weeks. padilla spent years in solitary confinement before his trial for
our laws protect every person against torture and mistreatment. no excuse whatsoever. if tried in front of an objective jury, bush, cheney, rice and others would be found to have broken US law. there’s little argument over this, the question rather boils down to whether we should actually enforce our laws or not.
of course republicans only want to enforce laws when they can bring down democratic presidents for petty reasons.
sesquipedalian on May 4, 2009 at 7:21 PM
Yes it is material, but what is even more material is the fact he was a US citizen that was captured on a foreign battlefield taking up arms against his country.
As I mentioned in my previous post once it was determined that Lindh was an American citizen he was transferred to the US court system and out of the military tribunal system for prosecution under US laws, which was the right thing to do since he’s entitled to protections under US law being he’s a US citizen.
However, illegal enemy combatants captured on the battlefield that are not US citizens are not protected under US laws OR the GC!
I would like to note here, had Lindh pulled what he did say during the Korean war, WWII, WWI, or any war previous to this one he would have been tried for treason by the military and executed immediately after his conviction, so as traitors Lindh and Padilla should be thankful they were captured by the US and not by the Taliban, AQ, et al!
Liberty or Death on May 4, 2009 at 7:24 PM
we’ve seen the enemy and he is us.
kirkill on May 4, 2009 at 7:26 PM
are you delusional? in what world is iraq not a tragic fiasco?
sesquipedalian on May 4, 2009 at 7:26 PM
And just when I thought we had gotten rid of you lot…
strangelet:
We have already confirmed the FACT that Lincoln, Truman, Kennedy, Wilson, and BOTH Roosevelts authorized torture, with most of them going even FURTHER than what Bush has.
So how will this translate into Bush becoming the Torture President?
And what about Obama, who has largely continued Bush’s policies?
Oh yes, and what ALTERNATIVE ways do you have for us to get intel?
I assume you have them, because we all know you wouldn’t be as stupid as to deprive us of valuable intelligence in the middle of a war.
Right?
I await your response
sesquipedalian:
In a court of law, in front of Congress and the Supreme Court, for no greater reason than to save one’s own selfish arse?
Yes, it is.
Hate to tell you, idiot, but if we were going to be so self-righteous as to apply it to all cases, the very people who WROTE that amendment would be in the slammer or worse.
Consider this: the founding fathers had to fight a brutal, no-holds-barred Civil War against their more powerful Royalist bretheren to bring those ideals to light for EIGHT years nonstop.
They realized that you occasionally must cut corners on you own ideals in order to preserve those ideals for a new generation.
You, obviously, do not.
But than again, weren’t you the idiot who advised we hole up in Afghanistan and wait for the global jihad to go away?
TECHNICALLY true, but both are held by your fellow ideologues.
And isn’t it cute when the troll attempts to use insults to camoflague its utter inability to argue reasonably?
I’d take Grow Fins and a few others over you any day.
While they could be idiotic, I think they did not pride themselves on their ignorance.
True, but that might not be a line of thought you would like to follow.
You see, we tend to EXECUTE nationals who commit treason, or at least lock them up and let the dogs loose.
The Rosenburgs would attest to that.
Presumably to save yourself from actually putting thought into them.
And obviously that was a mistake, considering the fact that
A. The UN never bothered to enforce it except on those who attempted to follow it in the first place (USSR, Red China, etc).
B. There ARE times when it MUST be applied, as KSM and the Ardennes Offensive both attest to.
Lovely.
And at that very time, guess who we were giving arms and munitions to?
Yes, the crazy, out-of-control Contras, who CERTAINLY did not obey the rules of war (though to be fair, many of them tried, and they were certainly better at it than the Sandinistas).
Why?
Because Reagan realized that ideals are not bulletproof, and unless one uses every weapon in one’s arsenal at a time of crisis, one may very well loose everything.
What I can say is that we have tried to follow that mandate, which is something many nations cannot.
But the idea that these documents be the anchor that forces the rest of the ship- including the other provisions in the Constitution and the now-very-much-underused UN Declaration of Human Rights- to the murky bottom is madness. And amoral.
Yes, it is.
But more than where he was captured is what the CIRCUMSTANCES of his capture were.
As it was, he was captured in violation of international law and the Geneva Conventions.
Do you know what international law allows for such an offense, oh guru of international law?
Summary Execution.
Kind of reveals how weak your points are, doesn’t it?
Turtler on May 4, 2009 at 7:27 PM
I find this whole subject bizarre. Millions of girls and women can die from genital mutilation but that is supposedly about culture.
However liberals screech in sanctimonious unison over something like water boarding that is not even used anymore and was never used often.
I would think that having your clitoris cut out with a piece of glass would be torture. I am not so sure about water being poured up your nose for a few seconds.
Terrye on May 4, 2009 at 7:35 PM
Well, I can allege anything, proving it is something entirely different!
As for his wound, well I’d like to know the circumstances on why he didn’t receive treatment for two weeks, was it due to the chaos that ensued during the prison takeover, e.g., after the prison takeover it would have taken some time to sort out all the participants, etc and then eventually get them some advancd medical care, however I’m certain Lindh was provided some sort of field care before he was transported to where better medical care was available, if not and his wound was serious he would have died and the fact he’s still alive tells me his gunshot wound wasn’t serious and/or he received enough care to keep him alive!
Liberty or Death on May 4, 2009 at 7:36 PM
anyone captured on the battlefield is entitled to humane treatment. that is clearly the spirit and intent of geneva. as a practical matter, geneva is a product of an old system, just like many agencies of the UN itself. it’s a globalized world where non-state actors play a greater role, and we should interpret old conventions accordingly.
on the other hand, the UNC against torture is the law of the land in the US since 1984, and it provides universal protection from any kind of inhumane treatment.
sesquipedalian on May 4, 2009 at 7:37 PM
That exchange is very helpful in understanding Dodd et. al.
All the Bush hate is about the Clinton Impeachment and the hope for revenge.
Stupid stupid stupid. Un-impeach Clinton for all I care… just move forward, please.
petunia on May 4, 2009 at 7:39 PM
Yeah, that’s it, Iraq is totally out of control, almost as bad as Detroit or something.
Your side lost. Deal with it.
jeff_from_mpls on May 4, 2009 at 7:39 PM
Someone run against Dodd in Connecticut. We need a conservative up there.
RobCon on May 4, 2009 at 7:42 PM
A prepositional phrase “about oral sex” doesn’t make perjury legal.
Except to a very confused mind.
Think it over.
jeff_from_mpls on May 4, 2009 at 7:42 PM
I have to go sesq, but I’ll leave you with the below quote from Jefferson (emphasis mine) for you to ponder and contrast with your above comment:
Liberty or Death on May 4, 2009 at 7:42 PM
Besides the facts on the ground showing how ignorant you are,your heroes Obama and Hillary disagree with you also:
Obama to troops: “You got the job done” in Iraq
posted at 6:08 pm on February 27, 2009 by Allahpundit
http://hotair.com/archives/2009/02/27/obama-to-troops-you-got-the-job-done-in-iraq/
Here is the democratic Secretary of State noting how successful Iraq is:
Hillary Willingly Suspends Disbelief– Says Iraq On Right track
Hillary Clinton told General Petraeus that she would not believe him when he came to Congress to report on security gains in Iraq in 2007:
http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2009/04/hillary-willingly-suspends-disbelief.html
You liberals can’t even keep your talking points straight anymore.
What credibility do you have on this thread when the people you praise and exalt engage in the torture you are so against and finally admit the success of Iraq that you and the bubble you live in can’t comprehend.
Baxter Greene on May 4, 2009 at 7:45 PM
with a bullet in his thigh, he was stripped naked, bound to a stretcher with duct tape, and placed in a windowless shipping container for days. but that’s beside the point.
sesquipedalian on May 4, 2009 at 7:46 PM
Comment pages: « Previous 1 2 3 Next »