Poll: 67% of Catholics approve of the job Obama’s doing
posted at 8:51 pm on May 1, 2009 by Allahpundit
I know I’ve said this before on the site, and I know many devout Catholics’ experiences are different, but having grown up in the Church, there’s nothing here that surprises me. Most Catholics I know treat the Church’s commands as essentially hortatory, to be politely ignored when need be — as in the case of torture — which is why I can’t quite fathom the outrage over a pro-choicer as adamant as The One speaking at Notre Dame. His job approval this month among Catholics is 70 percent, and 65 percent among those who attend church weekly. They’re fighting a losing battle here.
Even Catholics who consider themselves “conservative” politically are more likely to approve than disapprove of Obama’s job performance [49/40]…
In fact, 53% of Catholics voted for Obama for president in November, almost identical to the 52.9% of the popular vote Obama won in the 2008 election. Catholics’ 67% approval of Obama in his first 100 days is slightly higher than his overall 63% average approval rating for the same period. Thus, relative to the population, Catholics have become a bit more supportive of Obama as president than they were in the election.
If the culture wars can’t even deter supermajority approval among Catholics, what’s the point?
Blowback
Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.
Trackbacks/Pings
Trackback URL
Comments
Comment pages: « Previous 1 2 3 Next »
darclon on May 1, 2009 at 10:05 PM
What a topsy, turvy world we live in. In the case of liberal Episcopalianism, it’s the third world African dioceses which are rebelling against Gene Robinson and women bishops and the increasing liberalization of the Church. It’s they who first decided to withdraw from the Anglican Communion over these issues.
jeanie on May 1, 2009 at 10:14 PM
The fact that the USCCB and the Pope disapprove of Obama speaks volumes.
Abortion is murder unless life magically begins at birth. From a scientific view point, life begins at conception. To allow abortion is forcing the ‘life magically begins at birth’ on America, especially the innocent lives.
Abortion doctors know they are killing a human, they should be tried for a capital crime.
Obama supports infanticide…
http://www.obamabeenlying.com/?p=19
ironmonk on May 1, 2009 at 10:14 PM
Why do you bring up Matthew 7:3-5?
That’s haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaard!
Loxodonta on May 1, 2009 at 10:15 PM
As a conservative Maronite Catholic, I’m appalled at the results of this poll. Shame on those Catholics who chose to look the other way concerning abortion and those who promote it.
Zorro on May 1, 2009 at 10:19 PM
I really don’t trust all polls. I find this hard to believe, but I agree with Zorro.
You can’t support a man, who advocates infanticide, and still call yourself Catholic.
capejasmine on May 1, 2009 at 10:24 PM
Maybe it’s not a dry run at all. Now I’m not saying he’s the Antichrist. I just wonder how things would be any different if he were.
Kensington on May 1, 2009 at 10:27 PM
This is like saying you can’t call yourself a Jew if you support Jimmeh Carter. They can and they will. They really think they can change the CC from outside.
Upstater85 on May 1, 2009 at 10:27 PM
Obviously a majority of Catholics do.
lexhamfox on May 1, 2009 at 10:28 PM
Huh? Is this always the accusation you get from stating the obvious?
Being an ex-Roman Catholic, it took me half of my life to swallow my pride and accept what the Word of God teaches. And for that frequently out of context quote from Matthew 7, that is always about righteous judgement. Everybody judges somebody or something every day. That passage is about judging hypocritically like voting for Obama!
Seriously, the bible says judge righteous judgement.
We judge the liberals’ view of the world everyday so please don’t be gay.
maynila on May 1, 2009 at 10:29 PM
I made this point on the earlier thread, but it’s important for people to understand the dynamic that’s going on. The earth is moving under the feet of the American Church right now, but it’s moving in a way that actually will make things more amenable to conservative Catholics.
John Paul II was a transformative figure, more so than any Pope in a long time. The weak horses who lead the Church in the United States — people like George, Maida, Law, Mahony and others — are of the generation that came into the Church before JPII. Their models are John XXIII and Paul VI, who were a lot more liberal than JPII. JPII believed in social justice, but as a Pole he understood that the Left wasn’t to be trusted. This is why he went after the Liberation Theology with such ferocity during his papacy. The priests who will begin leading the Church in the future, those who see the world the way JPII did, are just now starting to assume positions of power within the hierarchy. They are a lot more bold in preaching against the evils that the Left brings — men like Chaput in Denver and Nienstedt here in St. Paul. There are many more of them coming. Go to a parish with a young priest and listen to what he says. The message in the homily won’t be a tacit endorsement of socialism.
Benedict XVI is a caretaker and he hasn’t moved things much. I have a strong sense that the next Pope, who will probably arrive within five years time, will be a man who came of age under JPII. I would also imagine that he won’t be a European, because the Church there is tired and dessicated. The energy in the Church is coming from elsewhere, especially the Third World. And that is where the next Pope will be from. And that Pope will continue the transformation of the Church that JPII began. And I would also mention that this next Pope will instantly become a huge rival of Barack Obama.
Mr. D on May 1, 2009 at 10:31 PM
Hmm? I don’t know what you’re going on about, but I wasn’t referring to you when I referenced “mindless ad hominem Catholic bashing.”
Kensington on May 1, 2009 at 10:33 PM
I would advise you not to make assumptions about the Catholic faith based on what you read here, what these stupid polls say or what your catholic acquaintances may be like. People have free will and do whatever they want. Anybody can call themselves catholic (like many prominent politicians) and yet reject fundamental tenets of the faith. It is particularly tricky with Catholicism because many people simply called themselves Catholics because of where they were born or other cultural reasons, not because they live their catholic faith.
neuquenguy on May 1, 2009 at 10:37 PM
Keep the faith, and do not lose hope.
Loxodonta on May 1, 2009 at 10:40 PM
You have to love this from the Gallup link
All Hail the Messiah, more mind numbing crap oozing from the media and its agents. The article explains the jewish luv fest but not a single word about the Muslims……
dmann on May 1, 2009 at 10:45 PM
I’m reminded also of how that loathsome blasphemous poseur Andrew Greeley spent all last year insinuating that anyone who didn’t vote for Barack Obama was a racist.
Kensington on May 1, 2009 at 10:49 PM
I can’t pass up a layup…does that make me a bad person? ;)
TheBigOldDog on May 1, 2009 at 10:58 PM
67% of catholics are too stupid to breathe on their own.
Spiritk9 on May 1, 2009 at 11:04 PM
What issue is that? Oh wait, I know. It’s that 25% of the respondents identified as Catholic and of that 25%, there’s a really good chance at least 25% of them aren’t practicing and therefore the true approval ratings could easily be around 56% of true Catholics. In truth, I wouldn’t be shocked if 50% of their 25% weren’t practicing Catholics which would put true Catholic approval at 34%. Either way, none of that was the purpose of this thread. But you knew that already.
Have I got that right?
TheBigOldDog on May 1, 2009 at 11:12 PM
Matthew 7:3-5 is the first thing I ever said to ThackerAgency.
Odd coincidence that.
Loxodonta on May 1, 2009 at 11:16 PM
I think this poll is complete crap!
The big give away is the fact that they say even most Mormons approve of Ogabe–the Mormons I know don’t dig Zerobama and never will.
And if Gallup lied about the Mormons, they lied about the Protestants and Catholics, too.
After all, Gallup doesn’t say which church they go to or if it values telling the truth.
Jenfidel on May 1, 2009 at 11:21 PM
Give’s you an idea of the lack of sound Biblical teaching coming from Catholic pulpits. You can’t really blame the 67% when those in the pulpit refrain from teaching hard truth because they’re afraid the collection plates won’t be full.
Its not only the Catholics but I’ll wager you’d see similar numbers or higher than expected from Evangelicals. Evangelical Pastors are obsessesed w/building Mega-Churches and don’t want to run folks off with something as unpleasant as the truth.
Meanwhile the Nation spirals down. And we blame Obama?
Darvin Dowdy
Darvin Dowdy on May 1, 2009 at 11:29 PM
There is a train of thought, held by liberal Catholics, that being anti-war and ensuring “social justice” is far more important than worrying about abortion. Catholics have been traditionally Democrats, so there is also some tribal loyalty there. They fail to see that the Democrat’s social justice programs confuse protecting people from the consequences of bad choices with compassion. They think the highest form of Christianity is “not judging” when all that does is enable people to continue making poor choices. There is no maturity or growth that follows but, darn, they sure feel good about how “Christian” they are. Today’s social justice rhetoric is just a re-packaging of Liberation Theology.
Loxodonta – the music was beautiful. Thank you.
inmypajamas on May 1, 2009 at 11:32 PM
This is what happened when you don’t depend on scripture and instead depend on tradition, or whatever someone decides to do and others repeat.
TTheoLogan on May 1, 2009 at 11:43 PM
That ain’t the approval rate I hear from the choir. Yeah, I’m the organist-I never talk politics at church-but I hear it anyhoo….
Little Boomer on May 1, 2009 at 11:51 PM
Thanks. You’re very welcome.
Loxodonta on May 1, 2009 at 11:58 PM
Any Christian, Catholic or Protestant, who voted for BHO cannot justify it through scripture. God creates life and it’s not up to us to kill innocents or allow others to do so through our vote. Just like the blood of Able cried out from the ground the blood of 4,000 slaughtered baby boys and baby girls cries out everyday for justice.
All Christians have to do is vote the Bible and we wouldn’t have twerps like Obama anywhere near the oval office. Wake up people!
Mojave Mark on May 2, 2009 at 12:17 AM
So I guess Christian and Conservative aren’t synonymous?
ronsfi on May 2, 2009 at 12:36 AM
Having been on a Parish Council for three years, I can tell you with all honesty that I didn’t approve of about 67% of the “Catholics” in festing the Church at that time. The experience really soured me on the Roman Catholic Church.
john1schn on May 2, 2009 at 12:44 AM
I left the Catholic Church because of the hypocrisy, refusal to hold parishioners accountable and for the idiocy of the church not to realize that the STATE hold all power in marriage and divorce, especially in no-fault divorce states.
Refusal to hold parishioners accountable for supporting the murder of helpless, unborn children is inexcusable, especially when the doctrine of the church is against abortion.
There are too many “fake” catholics for my taste, TYVM.
nelsonknows on May 2, 2009 at 12:48 AM
PROOF! cathloics are really really stupid! why?
allrsn on May 2, 2009 at 1:02 AM
Here’s another guy’s take on this.
warbaby on May 2, 2009 at 1:04 AM
I’m not surprised. The church I grew up in redecorated in the 70s. They added orange shag carpet and hung crucified Jesus on a yellow blob instead of the cross he had been on.
Sermons were classic bleeding-heart liberal and ‘guitar mass’ was popular (my sister and I were in the music group).
I yearned for the beauty of the traditional church.
We are now not a religious family. Even my parents who were raised in Catholic schools are no longer religious.
Common Sense on May 2, 2009 at 1:35 AM
The Catholics I know do NOT approve of obama. Is this poll referring to hispanic immigrants, who, are Catholic?
TN Mom on May 2, 2009 at 1:46 AM
Neither are Christian and Catholic, I’m sorry to say…though it looks like many others here have already reached that conclusion as well.
Cylor on May 2, 2009 at 2:30 AM
Catholics are just like other Christians. Imperfect people who easily fall to temptation and rationalize their level of obedience to the Church, or the Bible
Cable is filled with mega ‘evangelical’ churches with huge audiences eating up sermons about loving oneself, and getting rich. They think they are attending ‘church’ but I see little worship of God and much self love and worship of the prosperity theology or whatever floats your boat
If the preacher, council, or local authority at a Church promotes a convenient theology, like minded folk will come
You don’t have to go far to find lesbian nuns and priests, anti war priests, communist priests, open borders priests, gay ministers, or priests who no longer say the life of a child is more important than the life of a mother.
There are priests who think Obama is not advocating murder wuth partial birth abortions. I know this by inference
Obama made a ‘legal’ argument that the born-alive protections would cause terrible legal precedents by giving the born alive baby rights as a human, and cause therefore, too many legal consequences.
Since the Priest of Notre Dame are giving an honorary law degree to Obama, I infer they approve his legalisms regardling mass murder.
That is one big, famous role model for cafeteria Christians to follow. So I would not say we have trouble. We just have the same hypocrites Christ spoke against. Jesus prophecied things would get worse not better until the end times
The Bible puts it all in perspective. It is not all bad since evertything seems to be supporting what is written in the Good Book
entagor on May 2, 2009 at 2:38 AM
http://www.gallup.com/poll/117154/Catholics-Similar-Mainstream-Abortion-Stem-Cells.aspx
Job approval doesn’t always correlate with stands on issues.
I was surprised to find in this poll that only about 40% of Americans find abortion “morally acceptable”. And yes I know that’s not the same as being opposed to it’s legality, but still, it should give pause to those who claim Social Conservatives are hurting the Republican Party.
They are certainly a large percentage of Catholics outside the Northeast and Upper Midwest. Certainly a factor in that approval number.
Another factor-the majority of Catholics in the US live in the bluest of blue states and generally have the same opinions about economic issues and the war as their non-Catholic neighbors. I speak as a Northeastern Catholic.
Judging by a couple of co-workers who are Evangelicals (and are conservative on social issues) I’d say you are right.
Mr. Obama has “the Gift”, an article I read today put forth (can’t remember who it was now.)Some people can speak with a forked tongue and get away with it. Personally I find him as charming as an animal carcass, but others disagree. His glib tongue, and willingness to make fun of his opponents in a crass manner is working for him right now.
He’s an archetypal wiseass (and not a very mature one, at that), and apparently that is attractive to some people – I’ve actually gotten the feeling from a couple of people that they support the guy partly out of a fear of ridicule-they felt like they’d be, in some sort of vague sense, “outsiders”, if they didn’t support him, and that is apparently too much for them to bear.(Seriously, somebody said as much to me a couple of days ago-it was very weird, and almost a cry for help). It’s a wide but shallow sort of approval that will become less and less important as events take over. And take over they will.
Dreadnought on May 2, 2009 at 2:52 AM
What about the many Evangelicals that are far right of center? They are far from “religious” or “traditional.” There lack of structure hasn’t lead them down the wrong road. But then again, your point was merely one on religiosity – so maybe this isn’t a good example.
I do know a few Zen Episcopalians that are somewhat religious, gay, and progressive though
Upstater85 on May 2, 2009 at 3:42 AM
Some Catholic priests were found guilty of molesting children too.
Parallel?
purgatory on May 2, 2009 at 6:40 AM
Well, I guess it depends on what you mean by Catholic. Pelosi and Kennedy consider themselves Catholic, but I am not sure the Pope would agree with them.
Terrye on May 2, 2009 at 6:57 AM
I’m a Catholic and I think Obama is doing a pretty good job, if you’re in favor of a Marxist selling Utopia to the ideologues on the left. He’s got a lot of America in Hitlerite adulation of his “Oneness”.
adamsmith on May 2, 2009 at 7:27 AM
As a catholic and maybe its a west coast thing or something but everyone I know as a catholic voted the opposite of what this poll is saying. The only demographic that makes sense is the old east coast blue collar union areas who “happen to be catholic” I get that… but as a catholic on its own I highly doubt these poll results…
KevinA on May 2, 2009 at 7:38 AM
Party Affiliation By Religious Tradition, Percentages
aengus on May 2, 2009 at 8:14 AM
Of the 3 Catholic men I dated, 2 went to church, but they all believed that. One even voiced that quote. It’s very sad what’s happened to the Catholic Church.
4shoes on May 2, 2009 at 8:15 AM
It seems there aren’t many religious people among the Jews and Catholics, according to this and other threads. One probably ought to affirmatively choose a religion at a certain age, rather than be born into it. It only weakens the religion when you can claim membership by birth, but abide by no rules. Now that’s a tent that prob. got too big.
JiangxiDad on May 2, 2009 at 8:24 AM
I don’t put too much stock in this poll. I think alot of people are socially cowed into not saying anything bad about the first halfrican American president. It will take time with those with ‘guilt’ to see the Emperor has no clothes. How much damage they will allow to be caused before the wool leaves their eyes is anyone’s guess.
eaglewingz08 on May 2, 2009 at 8:26 AM
I WAS Catholic….until now.
How do you become a Mormon?
jay12 on May 2, 2009 at 8:28 AM
As Captain Morrissey has stated time and again on this site, the Catholic church has done a woeful job of educating the faithful these last 30 or so years. I grew up Catholic, but as I look back on my early Catholic years, I can’t say I was taught much of the tenents of the faith. During the 60s and 70s when I attended Sunday school, everything was pretty much guitar singing and feel good teaching of love, sharing, etc. My husband attended Catholic schools all his life and he even does not know as much about the Catholic faith as he should. Is it really that the church is selling out its principles for collection monies? If so, that is distressing on so many levels.
KickandSwimMom on May 2, 2009 at 8:33 AM
Last year I complained to the diocese about a priest who had the ushers escort Pro-Lifers out of the church parking lot. They were distributing election-day guides to parishioners at the end of the Mass.
A few Sundays later this same priest distributed a photograph of Obama under the caption “The White House” to all the parishioners after Mass.
The following Sunday, the diocesan newspaper carried an article warning Catholics to be on the lookout for Pro-Lifers distributing election materials.
jay12 on May 2, 2009 at 8:44 AM
How does one rate any job performance at the point the the job has only begun?
No mention made of Gallup crossing party lines to gather data, only by religion. Obama has his supporters’ personal information online, Gallup polls Obama’s supporters.
Wording, the devil is ALWAYS in the details.
maverick muse on May 2, 2009 at 8:44 AM
Take again; American Catholic liberals think that they can change the Pope, that their voice to dilute the word must be heard.
maverick muse on May 2, 2009 at 8:48 AM
Mr. D on May 1, 2009 at 10:31 PM
Never underestimate Benedict XVI and his role in God’s hands.
maverick muse on May 2, 2009 at 8:51 AM
Amen
maverick muse on May 2, 2009 at 8:56 AM
Exactly.
maverick muse on May 2, 2009 at 8:57 AM
yep
maverick muse on May 2, 2009 at 9:00 AM
Take it to the next level, and then the next.
You can’t be alone in your opinion in your parish.
Popularity and Principle each have their rewards and their noose, depending on PERSPECTIVE.
What’s your priest going to do; excommunicate you? Not literally.
What’s your parish going to do; 86 you? Probably.
So what’s a good Catholic to do about living consciously by conscience in the Unity of the Holy Spirit?
maverick muse on May 2, 2009 at 9:09 AM
shame….shame…shame…as a catholic….i am shamed….i’ve had this argument with my supposed catholic friends…they support this infanticide promoting abortion of a president….yet define themselves as good catholics…i just threw up in my mouth a little
JJKRN on May 2, 2009 at 9:13 AM
yep
maverick muse on May 2, 2009 at 9:14 AM
Touché!
Full Disclosure.
maverick muse on May 2, 2009 at 9:16 AM
I called the parish office to tell them I joined a different parish so they would stop sending me envelopes.
Four months later, they are still sending me envelopes.
jay12 on May 2, 2009 at 9:17 AM
Yes.
Doublethink doesn’t even work on a pop quiz. Better to go with the first impulse when doubt comes calling.
Rationalizations are the sophists’ dogma of choice. And sophistry rather than intellectual curiosity is what the Ivy League and all elitists preach, regardless of religion, AS religion.
maverick muse on May 2, 2009 at 9:22 AM
Why would anyone find this number (67%) surprising? Polls show over 80% of Catholics practice birth control today even though it’s considered a mortal sin by the church. I come from a Catholic family in Boston. Many of my parent’s siblings had large families despite living close to the poverty level. They weren’t even overly religious, but still they didn’t dare go against the church’s teaching for fear of losing their souls. Today, you are hard pressed to find a Catholic who practices birth control even among the most devout. I bring this up not to open a discussion about birth control but to offer it as an illustration of how the church’s authority is nothing like it used to be. The priest abuse scandals certainly made things worse but the collapse of authority was under way well before those events. Vatican 2 was what really opened the floodgate. 50 years ago my grandmother was excommunicated for marrying a divorced Protestant. Today, Senator Kennedy can be given communion publicly by the cardinal of Boston despite his immoral lifestyle and his fiercely pro abortion politics. The Catholic church in America is a bare shell of what it used to be.
frank63 on May 2, 2009 at 9:24 AM
I don’t. I just suspect that the next Pope will be crucial.
Mr. D on May 2, 2009 at 9:25 AM
jay12 on May 2, 2009 at 8:44 AM
I feel your frustration with the church. At my church, we have a hispanic deacon who did a homily one Sunday which advocated for open borders and social justice for illegals. Needless to say, I sat in the pew with a very angry look on my face. I went into a complete rant to my family after mass that day. The church has no right to excuse the breaking of this country’s laws. In fact, I stopped contributing to Catholic Charities because I found out our money was going to helping illegals with living essentials.
KickandSwimMom on May 2, 2009 at 9:28 AM
The American Bishops are to blame for this. They allowed a generation of Catholic “scholars” and priests to teach that the government was the salvation of catholics. Even the Pope is an incipient statist. But what the hey… the church has been practicing statist politics since at least the time of Constantine. Their fundamental doctrine of the Trinity was decided by a government so why are we that surprised.
aloysiusmiller on May 2, 2009 at 9:28 AM
I hear you. They eventually quit, but it takes years and new personnel, office and liturgy. Guilt never applies WITHIN the liberal self righteous psyche. Just keep the faith! (and be glad you found friends)
maverick muse on May 2, 2009 at 9:29 AM
jay12 on May 2, 2009 at 8:28 AM
pathetic
maverick muse on May 2, 2009 at 9:30 AM
Oh, another cherry picked poll to use. Wonder how many are actual Catholics.
StevefromMKE on May 2, 2009 at 9:35 AM
Always to bear in mind; history balances wisdom.
None the less, joining one’s faith with the Universal Christian ecumenical body is not to be eschewed in terms of strengthening spiritual direction as an individual, society and global civilization.
maverick muse on May 2, 2009 at 9:38 AM
StevefromMKE on May 2, 2009 at 9:35 AM
Those online forms that political supporters fill out for their candidates ask the individual to check every box of personal, professional, religious and hobby interest. Liberal activists with an agenda to attack Catholicism and Christianity would check those targets of interest. Then there they are in the “pool” for polls to base figures.
maverick muse on May 2, 2009 at 9:42 AM
StevefromMKE on May 2, 2009 at 9:35 AM
Those online forms that political supporters fill out for their candidates ask the individual to check every box of personal, professional, religious and hobby interest. Liberal activists with an agenda to attack Catholicism and Christianity would check those targets of interest. Then there they are in the “pool” for polls to base figures.
maverick muse on May 2, 2009 at 9:44 AM
Mr. D on May 2, 2009 at 9:25 AM
Now especially, every pope is crucial.
You realize, I agree with you.
maverick muse on May 2, 2009 at 9:47 AM
I am Catholic & our church made it clear without actually naming names that we could not support a pro choice president. The Catholics I know do no support Obama … I also live in Texas.
redridinghood on May 2, 2009 at 9:53 AM
It’s very interesting that you bring this up. Just yesterday I was having a conversation with a co-worker whose son is a brother associated with a traditional order in Chicago. She told me that the original priest who came to shut it down ten years ago, because it only had five parishioners, has been grown into a thriving parish with over 1,000. Their formula? Well, it’s not appealing to the middle, or widening their tent by going modern. It’s going old school by restoring the magic and majesty of the mass and morals prior to P2 (Not sure if this is correct – I’m not Catholic) back the early 60s. They are conducting their masses in Latin and according to the strict rituals which are deeply symbolic of the passion and sacrifice of the Christ (in her words). They are also serving the community like traditional missionaries, and having a great success reaching people who are spirit starved.
It will be interesting to see what happens when more of these type of priests truly devote themselves to the work of the Lord instead of their own self interests.
Queen0fCups on May 2, 2009 at 10:17 AM
I do. A new day is coming.
What your co-worker is describing is happening in many places, and it’s happening throughout Christianity. The secular worldview may seem ascendant, but its limitations will become increasingly evident.
Mr. D on May 2, 2009 at 10:41 AM
When I doubt, use the traditional methods handed down by the masters:
First consult the sacred texts: Wikipedia.
If you find no answer there, consult the words of the wise: Olbermann.
If you find no answer there, consult the compass that comes built in to each of us: Google
And if all else fails, obfuscate.
After that, all that is left is the fine art of vilifying your interlocutor and changing the subject.
Loxodonta on May 2, 2009 at 10:48 AM
You have been lied to.
And now you have to ask, why would that person, the person who told you this, lie to you?
jeff_from_mpls on May 2, 2009 at 11:08 AM
Everything is connected. The USCCB has for years held forth publicly on every political question no matter how minor and almost always from a leftist perspective. Many critics of this approach cautioned against the day that their moral ammunition would be exhausted for big issues because of their fixation on food stamp benefit level calculation formulas and the like. Having squandered their energy on prudential matters there is now deafness to their pleas on the non-negotiable. Catholics have been lead to assume that if a politician is consistent with the litany of USCCB policy preference minutia he is wonderful. Mr. Obama is a walking encyclopedia of statist stuff the USCCB has been promoting. Mr. Obama is giving the USCCB everything it asked for and -sadly- more. The politco/ecclesial chickens have come home to roost.
Mason on May 2, 2009 at 11:16 AM
So Nancy Pelosi was excited to meet the Pope not because of the spiritual aspect but because of the celebrity aspect. If she does not support him or her Faith on such a basic level, why did she bother to go at all? Seems an unforgivable degree of hypocrisy. Again, not Catholic, but was under the impression that one of the primary reasons this Pope was chosen was for his staunch beliefs in basic, traditional Catholic doctrine.
jeanie on May 2, 2009 at 11:21 AM
Pelosi is a member of the “Church of Whats Happenin” Now.
Like Biden & Kerry. They should not receive communion if they cannot hold with the tenets of Catholic Faith.
It ain’t a buffet where you can pick & choose.
old trooper2 on May 2, 2009 at 3:14 PM
Then there’s Mr. McCarthy, who epitomizes what us devout folk feel.
unclesmrgol on May 2, 2009 at 5:09 PM
Would that we had Government theologians of the same wisdom and insight now as those who worked for the government 1700 years ago…
unclesmrgol on May 2, 2009 at 5:12 PM
If you are swayed by Allahpundit’s digs at your faith, then you weren’t very devout, and certainly not stalwart.
For me, I’ll take the faith of my fathers, living still.
As for becoming a Mormon, you don’t — you become a Latter Day Saint, and you can join up by going to http://maps.lds.org/ and entering your address in the search form; it will display the nearest stake (yes, that’s spelled correctly) houses or temples, along with worship times and congregation names. There’s also a link as to what to expect should you do this.
unclesmrgol on May 2, 2009 at 5:28 PM
The fault lies with the bishops and pastors of the past 40 years- instead of teaching the faith, they allowed themswelves to be consripted by the Dems. This Catholic and husband are not in the 70%!!!!
trainwife1962 on May 2, 2009 at 5:32 PM
Excellent post; I’m kind of bummed no one else replied to it.
I was raised Catholic, and always identified “Catholic” as family tradition more than faith. All of us kids growing up in the 90s did at Catholic school. “My family this, my family that.” Our family (maternal side) has a stained glass window in my home parish, because my grandparents helped found it. A cultural pride has emerged and taken precedence over faith.
This is where I think the “Cafeteria Catholic” comes from. My aunts and uncles would always tell stories about their 60s Catholic upbringing, and it was always very social. The grueling tasks of reciting rosaries, singing in choir — the gamut.
Some of them are pretty funny: my mom told me a story about how my aunt always said “sepresize” during the Hail Holy Queen on the rosary. She did this until she was about 20, when my mom went “sepresize?! What’s SEPRESIZE? Don’t you mean SEND UP HER SIGHS?” “OOoOOohhhHhh…!” LOL.
But we were always blue collar Dem kids. Families where parents were in arenas like nursing, teaching, labor (unions). Even my own grandmother gets in hot water in her church circle when she steps out of the abortion debate. She had 7 kids, is anti-abortion, and is very pro-family, but fervently believes committing sin — even murder — is between the woman and God and does not lose sleep over Roe v. Wade.
But she was raised an FDR Democrat. She fervently believes the New Deal saved one of her family’s farms, after the other had been lost during the Depression. And this is where you’re seeing a lot of the “Catholic Democrats” emerging from. Never mind Kennedy was our only Catholic President, and is often looked upon very fondly.
Politics, faith, and family are not inextricably linked, either pro-or-con. My faith and family are very separate from my politics, and I think this is how most Catholics are. Most parochial schools do not emphasize faith in education; even when I was receiving the sacraments (Eucharist/Penance/Confirmation) I had to go to separate night classes, which irritated the Hell out of my working mom, always crowing “I pay for this education, and they can’t even have you go through any of the sacrament rights during school? I did when I was a kid!” We didn’t even learn the Nicene Creed in school, because we never recited it during Friday (school) Masses.
It’s created a culture where identifying as “Catholic” has become more about these stories of fellowship in family rather than a strict adherence to faith. Catholics and Jews are among the first to poke fun at their faiths while recounting the stories of “growing up as ______.” Not that the faith is not important, but there’s a different level of self-awareness to it all.
It’s fairly telling when out of my Grandmother’s 12 “of age” grandchildren (as in, out of their parents’ houses), her out gay one is the only one that attends Mass weekly (me). She gets quite a kick out of it; whether it’s irony masking as a bit of disappointment, I’ll never know.
And I’ve rambled way, way too much. ;D
lansing quaker on May 2, 2009 at 5:32 PM
There’s a big difference between practicing Catholics and cultural Catholics. I think the numbers would be a lot different if only people who actually go to Mass on Sunday and try to live by the Church’s teachings were polled.
Mulligan on May 2, 2009 at 7:23 PM
The Catholic Church has been thoroughly corrupted by the novelties of Vatican II. The “Liberal Catholic” is first and foremost an oxymoron, but since he dons the cloak of reason and naturalism his is in a comfortable alliance with the serpent.
Charles Martel on May 2, 2009 at 7:28 PM
I beg to differ; your faith is lived, and I’ve seen my parents, aunts, uncles, and grandparents living it in their daily acts — including those toward strangers. I think many Catholics are Democrats for historical reasons (the Irish viewed freedmen as competitive threats to their own livlihoods at the bottom of the WASP pecking order, and therefore were easily swayed by Civil War Democratic arguments that blacks were subhuman), while others are Democratic because they view the Democrats as being the party which would institute a Government closer to Jesus’s teachings (give alms to the poor, turn the other cheek many times, while forgetting that these charges were individual, and the acts are not acts of charity when made via confiscatory taxes on others).
As to thuja’s “insane package”, I think that ranks as the best anti-Catholic bigotry I’ve seen on this thread. I certainly don’t view the whole package as insane, and am quite proud of my Catholicism. I’m sure he’s just as proud of his practice of Judaism, but I’d love to see him try to claim the Law of Return in Israel; he’ll quickly see that “Judaism-lite” doesn’t count for much amongst the bearded rabbis. Ditto for Cafeteria Catholicism and the Pope, and rightly so.
unclesmrgol on May 2, 2009 at 7:36 PM
I know, I know when someone says polls are bogus, red flags go up! But, I really find it hard to believe this poll. I am catholic and I just don’t get this. I mean come on, are we all in a frickin trance over this guy? He is just a human being, not God. But, what worries me is that our country is acting like he is. Does anyone have any common sense anymore? I, as a Catholic, am pretty ****** off!
sweet92169 on May 2, 2009 at 9:55 PM
I’m really sick of the Evangelical and other Protestant led Catholic bashing that happens when topics like this come up. We do not all support him and I voted for McCain. You can say that x% of Catholics are dumb, but just a general “Catholics are dumb?” Grow up.
worlok on May 2, 2009 at 10:48 PM
Please explain more about this corruption by the novelties of Vatican II. I guess I must have been corrupted too if I didn’t notice it, so of course I would like to know more about the corrosion resting upon my soul.
unclesmrgol on May 2, 2009 at 11:24 PM
The number is probably somewhat inflated by the 98% of Catholic blacks who think he is doing a great job.
Star20 on May 3, 2009 at 2:01 AM
Need proof of Obamas treasonous activity? Here it is;
http://www.thefederalregister.com/d.p/2009-02-04-E9-2488
Cybergeezer on May 3, 2009 at 9:21 AM
This is not an accurate poll. No way. Even my priest makes a more elaborate intention when praying for “our politicians and how their hearts are guided”. It might just be me, but it seems that the prayer for our politicians is a little longer than it usually was during the intentions. My church is practically IN Boulder, CO., a town solely populated by Obamabots.
caygeon on May 3, 2009 at 10:45 AM
Who said it has anything to do with Allahpundit? It doesn’t. You serve your faith poorly by jumping to such conclusions.
It has everything to do with the American Catholic Church’s support of Democrats.
The Catholic Church is dead to me now. I am tired of you apologists. The Mormons don’t need apologists.
jay12 on May 3, 2009 at 11:06 AM
I don’t believe that a valid poll. For what has been happening with the OBungler, those numbers are preposterous!
byteshredder on May 3, 2009 at 11:29 AM
Even if 99.9% of those who claimed to be catholic in some poll voted Democrat, it would not affect my faith. I am not Catholic because of the people in my parish. I’m not Catholic because of the priests, or bishop in my diocese. I am Catholic because of this:
17 And Jesus answering, said to him: Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona: because flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in heaven. 18 And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.
I am Catholic because I know that the fullness of God’s Truth is found within His Church. Just because individual imperfect human beings who claim membership in His Church fail to live up to that Truth (and none of us could, though some fail more spectacularly than others), including some of the men who are charged with guiding His flock, I will not leave, because the Truth is found on the altar, in the Holy Eucharist. I can not get that anywhere else.
The fullness of Truth is found in the teachings of Christ’s Church, *for example see Humanae Vitae* regardless of the large percentage of American and European catholics who ignore those teachings. Their failures do not condemn the Church’s teaching. I would never bail on Jesus and His Church because of that, just as I would never bail on the Constitution of the United States of America because Thomas Jefferson was a confused hypocrite who owned slaves.
You may use your frustration with people to excuse leaving the Church, but you are not leaving them. You are leaving Jesus Christ in the Holy Eucharist. I pray you reconsider.
pannw on May 3, 2009 at 8:54 PM
Comment pages: « Previous 1 2 3 Next »