First US swine flu death confirmed
posted at 7:55 am on April 29, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
CDC officials confirmed the first US death from the swine flu outbreak this morning. A 23-month-old toddler succumbed in Texas, as the number of cases climbed to 66 across six states, but officials in New York think that hundreds of schoolchildren may be affected:
The first U.S. death from swine flu has been confirmed — a 23-month-old child in Texas — amid increasing global anxiety over a health menace that authorities around the world are struggling to contain.
The flu death was confirmed Wednesday by Dr. Richard Besser, acting director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. In an interview with CNN, he gave no other details about the child. …
The number of confirmed swine flu cases in the United States rose to 66 in six states, with 45 in New York, 11 in California, six in Texas, two in Kansas and one each in Indiana and Ohio, but cities and states suspected more. In New York, the city’s health commissioner said “many hundreds” of schoolchildren were ill at a school where some students had confirmed cases.
Cases have now popped up all over the world, including New Zealand, Israel, Britain, and Canada, among others. Germany announced three cases today, becoming the latest addition to the list of nations affected. Until now, all of the other deaths have been in Mexico, and for that matter, almost all of the severe cases.
To keep this in perspective, though, every flu outbreak causes deaths, even in the US. The CDC told the media yesterday that 36,000 people die in the US each year from flu-related illnesses. I had no idea that number was so high. To put it in perspective, the CDC’s 2001 statistics showed 10,800 deaths from alcohol-related traffic accidents — and almost 6,000 alcohol-related homicides.
It will take at least two months to get a vaccine for this flu strain, so we will have to remain careful about contact, but not paranoid. The very young and the very old will have to be protected, as will those with chronic immune-system disorders, such as the First Mate, who has to take immune-suppression medication for her transplant. It shouldn’t prompt panic, but informed caution.
Blowback
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Howdy, howdy! Been busy with moving, work, reports for school, the hopefully-at-some-point-ball-and-chain, and the puppy. Haven’t had a whole lot of time to get on here and be my normal cow (meg mccain) hating, rightwing extremist, racist, homophobic self. :)
leetpriest on April 29, 2009 at 10:36 AM
More people have been killed by “drug lords” in Mexico, then have been killed by this flu.
I don’t get it…a flu, a natural occurring event, where about 250,000 to 350,000 people every year die from, and it is becomes a major news story.
Wait till the first hurricane approaches the states…and the panic that will follow.
Only one death in the U.S., and that was from someone in Mexico seeking help.
So far our diet, cleanliness, medical, habits, have kept us safe from this Mexdemic.
Let the CDC handle it, and relax, it won’t be any big deal.
I listed a few days ago, every year their is a report of a “pandemic” and if not then then “killer bees” working their way up and soon will completely take over the U.S. withing a year, and killing thousands of people…what, that didn’t happen, but they promised it would.
right2bright on April 29, 2009 at 10:39 AM
Authorities admit that Oaxaca census taker transmitted the virus door-to-door
yet,
WHO: Only 7 swine flu deaths, not 152…
heroyalwhyness on April 29, 2009 at 10:40 AM
“This has to be a manufactured strain and possibly a manufactured crisis..eh hem.. Rahm….
A combo of human, swine and bird influenza virus? How does that naturally happen?” katy on April 29, 2009 at 8:33 AM
———–
“So, seriously. Are we going the route of conspiracy or are we kind of just understanding that this is a weird Mexican thing? I don’t know what to think.”
Mommypundit on April 29, 2009 at 8:45 AM
—————
“Don’t fall for it, MP.
That’s stuff for 9/11 conspiradroids to believe”
blatantblue on April 29, 2009 at 8:55 AM
————
“it was on Drudge a few days ago. Didn’t save it.”
katy on April 29, 2009 at 9:00 AM
—————
I saved it, and glad I did because it’s not there anymore!
http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/cidrap/content/influenza/panflu/news/jan1404hybrids.html
—
One of the worst fears of infectious disease experts is that the H5N1 avian influenza virus now circulating in parts of Asia will combine with a human-adapted flu virus to create a deadly new flu virus that could spread around the world.
That could happen, scientists predict, if someone who is already infected with an ordinary flu virus contracts the avian virus at the same time. The avian virus has already caused at least 48 confirmed human illness cases in Asia, of which 35 have been fatal. The virus has shown little ability to spread from person to person, but the fear is that a hybrid could combine the killing power of the avian virus with the transmissibility of human flu viruses.
Now, rather than waiting to see if nature spawns such a hybrid, US scientists are planning to try to breed one themselves—in the name of preparedness. ….
Any viable viruses that emerge from these processes will be seeded into animals that are considered good models for testing how flu viruses behave in humans, according to Daigle. The aim will be to observe whether the animals get sick and whether infected animals can infect others.
Peggy Snow Cahill on April 29, 2009 at 10:41 AM
Flu shot is irrelevant in my opinion. As you can see, some flus are resistant and mutate to other levels.
I make a distinction between the flu vax and others. We chose to stage her immunizations because of our concern for additives in them which caused her sibling to react. It was our choice. I realize that there are heightened emotions on all sides here, but, I’d appreciate a little less sanctimony and more understanding from another mom. Because we chose to wait it out and keep our child home largely(we think day care and public school to be a greater threat, to be honest) and eat whole, organic foods and selectively vacinate doesn’t make us less concerned about our children’s well being and health. You really have no idea how careful and mindful I am. So. Yeah…
Mommypundit on April 29, 2009 at 10:48 AM
leetpriest
Don’t let her ball and chain you too much
blatantblue on April 29, 2009 at 10:49 AM
Were #1! Were #1! Were #1! Were #1!
Go Houston!
TheSitRep on April 29, 2009 at 10:52 AM
Because certain areas of New Orleans are poor and underdeveloped. Katrina was a disaster, but let’s face it would have been a much bigger disaster if it had hit Mexico. Tens of thousands of people would have died because Mexico is a third world country. Tens of thousands would have also died in New Orleans if the storm had hit in 1918; in fact, that is exactly what happened a few times at the turn of the century.
The difference between today vs. one hundred years ago and the difference between first world vs. third world. Now please stop playing along with Fox News and freaking everyone out.
Illinidiva on April 29, 2009 at 10:54 AM
I’ll try, but I’m a sucker for southern belle conservative women that have professional careers and sport the Palin look.
She’s a Proverbs 31 chick, all the way. That’s the hotness!
leetpriest on April 29, 2009 at 11:02 AM
unseen on April 29, 2009 at 8:35 AM
Great source, thank you.
http://www.wpxi.com/video/19313969/index.html
unseen on April 29, 2009 at 9:00 AM
Perhaps you mistook my premise, as that argument does not seem to debate what I thought.
I have heard from other MD sources the same information, that come fall, beware. My point was that for Americans this summer, there may be a good survival rate. It’s a hope. But Dr. Henry Niman is the expert, and reads through the lines. I pity the southern hemisphere; I pity the Northern. I still wonder if part of what makes the younger adult population more susceptible as the swine virus’ prime target MIGHT also relate to that population’s previous flu vaccination, as each new flu episode is an incarnation of what it fed upon. And no, I am not saying that people without former vaccinations are safer.
I also wish that Nr. Niman would have said something regarding the meat. To me, it seems the slaughter of healthy flocks and herds needs better explanation than what the media reports. The Russians are abusing the situation with their own propaganda economic warfare tactics.
JiangxiDad on April 29, 2009 at 9:07 AM
http://www.recombinomics.com/
Good information shared.
maverick muse on April 29, 2009 at 11:02 AM
unseen on April 29, 2009 at 8:35 AM
Great source, thank you.
http://www.wpxi.com/video/19313969/index.html
unseen on April 29, 2009 at 9:00 AM
Perhaps you mistook my premise, as that argument does not seem to debate what I thought.
I have heard from other MD sources the same information, that come fall, beware. My point was that for Americans this summer, there may be a good survival rate. It’s a hope. But Dr. Henry Niman is the expert, and reads through the lines. I pity the southern hemisphere; I pity the Northern. I still wonder if part of what makes the younger adult population more susceptible as the swine virus’ prime target MIGHT also relate to that population’s previous flu vaccination, as each new flu episode is an incarnation of what it fed upon. And no, I am not saying that people without former vaccinations are safer.
I also wish that Nr. Niman would have said something regarding the meat. To me, it seems the slaughter of healthy flocks and herds needs better explanation than what the media reports. The Russians are abusing the situation with their own propaganda economic warfare tactics.
maverick muse on April 29, 2009 at 11:03 AM
JiangxiDad on April 29, 2009 at 9:07 AM
http://www.recombinomics.com/
Good information source.
maverick muse on April 29, 2009 at 11:04 AM
This is a thread about the flu. What should I post about? What have I posted about the flu that is untrue? Advise, please.
Loxodonta on April 29, 2009 at 11:06 AM
Diva:
Many Americans of either political species just love the concept of the apocalypse. It is deeply embedded in our social DNA. Reason isn’t going to convince someone who is bent in this direction. Could this be the coming plague? Possibly, but very unlikely. In the meantime I suggest that anybody who is deeply worried go to the doctor and get a pneumonia vaccination. It won’t guarantee survival but it will sure decrease the odds that you will die regardless of the severity of this or some future strain. It is a lifetime vaccination.
jerryofva on April 29, 2009 at 11:07 AM
What’s wrong Dave Rywall, got no rebuttal again?
Did you go run and hide like you always do?
Dave Rywall, the cowardly little Canuck.
leetpriest on April 29, 2009 at 11:07 AM
Loves it.
Mommypundit on April 29, 2009 at 11:08 AM
Vashta.Nerada on April 29, 2009 at 9:35 AM
May God be with you.
My children are the target age of this virus.
maverick muse on April 29, 2009 at 11:09 AM
A 23 month old infant died. As the New HHS Secretary was supported by a known Baby Killer and Partial Birth Abortionist, Kathleen Sebelius could care less.
Sebelius’ veto record regarding abortion-related legislation. It includes a measure designed to reinforce existing parental notification laws through requiring identification of any adult accompanying a minor for an abortion, photo identification of the minor, a written declaration of the relationship of the adult to the minor, and the prohibition of any abortion provider aiding a minor in obtaining a judicial waiver.
As for late-term abortion laws, AUL reported that Sebelius has vetoed legislation:
* Requiring explicit medical reasons for late-term abortions;
* Requiring abortion providers to report the diagnosis or the nature of the condition which necessitated a post-viability abortion; and
* Permitting injunctive relief for either a completed or about-to-be-performed illegal late-term abortion and adding certain prosecutors (in addition to the Attorney General) to prosecute violations of existing prohibitions on late-term abortion
Sebelius’ association with Tiller is equally troubling. An abortionist currently facing trial in Kansas for violating state restrictions on late-term abortions, Tiller and his wife gave Sebelius $12,450 in campaign contributions when “she was running and serving as the state’s insurance commissioner,” according to a 2008 Associated Press article. The AP was quick to note that Sebelius’ did not receive campaign contributions from the Tillers for her gubernatorial campaigns, the first of which she won in 2002.
However, other reports indicate that Sebelius hosted Tiller and his staff at a reception at the governor’s mansion in April 2007. The governor’s spokeswoman, Nicole Corcoran, told the AP the event was “a prize at a fundraising auction for the Greater Kansas City Women’s Political Caucus” and that “Governor Sebelius donates auction items like a dinner or reception to organizations whose causes she supports. We do not control who purchases it.” According to George Weigel, writing at First Things, “The equally notorious Nebraska partial-birth abortionist, LeRoy Carhart, was also at the 2007 reception, the story of which only came to light after the Associated Press invoked the Kansas Open Records Act.”
Just fine for Sebelius. Not to worry. It was a retro abortion to her.
old trooper2 on April 29, 2009 at 11:10 AM
unseen on April 29, 2009 at 9:46 AM
/Depends on the meaning of IS.
I am not arguing your points, as I agree with you. I did not presume what you wrote.
Nonetheless, WHAT exactly each incident was needs precise explication. Therein, HOW any information relates to the present becomes clear.
Clarification vs. misrepresentation.
maverick muse on April 29, 2009 at 11:16 AM
A very important question: Swine Flu, Halal or Haram?
TheUnrepentantGeek on April 29, 2009 at 11:19 AM
Yes… I get that there are some people who love to think in conspiracies and disasters, but it really does need to be debunked before people start really flipping out. This really is one of the downsides of cable news and the internets.
Illinidiva on April 29, 2009 at 11:19 AM
Here’s a very quick explanation.
This is different from “normal flu” because it kills healthy young adults (20-44 roughly) who are usually unaffected by “normal” flu (same strain, H1N1).
In 1918 the virulence was highly variable. It may have “only” killed 3% of people on average but it killed very high percentages of the target age range in some outbreaks.
This is explained in this 30 minute presentation (link stolen from above), which was posted to another hotair thread earlier. I watched the entire thing all the way through. There is nothing in it I had not read earlier but it ties it all together very well and the press (i assume) asked quite good questions which were all answered clearly.
The bottom-line is that the present flu is behaving exactly the same as the 1918 flu. It has the same symptoms and same epidemiological* behaviour. In 1918 there were mild outbreaks in the spring with few deaths. When the US army returned from WW1 in the fall it came back with a vengance.
Everything in the video is either covered in John Barry’s 2004 book, “The Great Influenza”, ISBN: 0143034480 or can be found linked from the “Influenza” page on Wikipedia.
* if that’s even a word :-)
gh on April 29, 2009 at 11:21 AM
Therein, ‘where does pharmaceutical research actually drive the virus’ one asks.
maverick muse on April 29, 2009 at 11:23 AM
So says the owner of an Irish airline, that it’s a ghetto thing.
That’s overly simplistic and rough as TIMING includes everyone.
maverick muse on April 29, 2009 at 11:25 AM
By the way. The CDC pushing H1N1 is quite misleading. The flu virus has 8 genes but only 2 (H and N) are important in the immune response and viral distribution within the body. There are detailed explanations on wikipedia with links to sites with movies which show exactly how the proteins created from the H and N genes work.
The “swine” and “bird” distinctions are due to differences in the other 6 genes (I guess), which only act inside cells once the H protein has cracked the cell. The N protein is used for getting out of the cell again — that’s why N-inhibitors work — all the effective antivirals are N-inhibitors, iirc (but you can check on wikipedia ;-)
gh on April 29, 2009 at 11:26 AM
Also there are three flu viruses: A, B and C.
The B and C viruses are successively weaker than the A one.
The H and N labelling always (almost?) refers to the A type.
gh on April 29, 2009 at 11:27 AM
Fat chance getting information that was never collected.
maverick muse on April 29, 2009 at 11:28 AM
The video you posted is helpful. Thanks.
The H1N1 Google Map shown in the video background has a lot of information about suspected and confirmed cases.
I hope all goes well with you and your family.
And thanks for your previous double posting. Knowing others can make such mistakes helps me feel I am not alone.
Loxodonta on April 29, 2009 at 11:30 AM
gh:
“When the US army returned from WW1 in the fall it came back with a vengeance.”
Have you read any books on life in the trenches during WWI? Soldiers who spent many months in that environment were an extremely vulnerable population. Despite what unseen believes, this population’s immunity systems were severely compromised making them vulnerable to all sorts of deadly secondary infections.
Crowed trench and barracks life made a fine environment for the transmission of the most severe strains of the virus. In a normal environment the worst strains don’t get transmitted as much because they incapacitate the victim before he can spread it far. In more normal circumstances the flu strain gets milder with time because the victim is not incapacitated. How many times have you decided to tough it out and go to work or school when you had a flu-like disease or a cold?
jerryofva on April 29, 2009 at 11:33 AM
The cause of death in the cases of interest is Cytokine Storms and the symptoms are well-described in Barry’s book. There is an explanation of CS on the wikipedia Influenza page.
As for the origin of this outbreak, it seems to be a Mexican pig farm and the index case is a 4 year old boy who recovered fully. Half the town has had it already. That’s still a guess, of course. If they find an earlier case then it’s pushed back but I presume, they have samples from the town.
gh on April 29, 2009 at 11:33 AM
There is so much missing from this story for me to make a real informed decision. I feel bad that a child died but where was the kid when he fell ill? Did he travel back and forth with parents to Mexico? Do they have regular contact with Mexicans for business? This disease is primarily found in South America and the southern part of the North American Continent.
Questions reporters ask them jeez.
theguardianii on April 29, 2009 at 11:33 AM
I have no idea what your objection is. Read Barry’s book.
In Philadelphia, for example, there were 300 troops who left a ship and within days the city was a ghost town. No-one dared to go out.
It is the virus that mutates. Watch the video. Flu season is winter and is just starting in the southern hemisphere. There will be lots of opportunity for the virus to change and become more (and less) lethal.
gh on April 29, 2009 at 11:35 AM
I don’t know about death from the vaccine but MANY were permanently paralyzed. It was a nighmare.
stenwin77 on April 29, 2009 at 11:38 AM
If you want to state it like that… yes it is. I think that Mexico is going to bear the brunt of this because the poor live in much more overcrowded and slum conditions than the poor here and definitely worse conditions than a middle class American. If you are really poor in Mexico, you probably live in a one room shack in a very crowded urban area with quite a few people, there is no indoor plumbing, and there is probably a horrible sanitation system. You also probably don’t have access to good health care. Those sorts of conditions are going to be more likely to lead to the spread of a disease/ death from the disease than the conditions in the U.S. (i.e. living in single family homes, driving to work in cars, etc.). It would be interesting to see the socio-economic breakdown for this disease; I’m thinking that most of the people affected are going to be poorer people.
Illinidiva on April 29, 2009 at 11:39 AM
Given the circumstances surrounding this outbreak, there is nothing typical about it; hence, take all precautions.
I gathered from a news report (don’t ask me to remember which now) when the flu first became recognized by the Mexican authorities, they began vaccinating everyone, making them ready hosts for outbreak, before being told to stop.
So learning WHICH precautions if any are actually helpful is the goal to know and to share.
/morons keep out
maverick muse on April 29, 2009 at 11:40 AM
Theguardianii:
I live in Austin. The radio reported this morning (local, not national) that the baby was from Mexico. The family was visiting relatives in Brownwood. The baby got sick. They drove the baby to a Houston hospital and the baby later died. I think that it is about a 2 hour drive from Brownwood. Further, the doctor at the hospital implied that they waited too long to seek treatment.
mimi1220 on April 29, 2009 at 11:45 AM
Thanks. I agree there are many similarities between this flu outbreak and the Spanish Flu Pandemic. For this reason, I think preparations and preventive measures need to be taken to prepare for a major and deadly pandemic. On the other hand, there is simply no way of knowing yet how this strain will evolve and impact the world. It might have far less impact than it could.
Their proposed name is indeed misleading, as this strain combines parts from Swine, Bird and Human Flu. And this PC police approach to the name is ridiculous. Following the standard naming practices for the three pandemics of the past century would result in this being called the Mexican Flu. I see no rational reason why this term should not be used.
Loxodonta on April 29, 2009 at 11:47 AM
Mexico City Mayor says only one more death since he last spoke; toll stabilizing.
Look, people, either every official who should be in the loop is lying their asses off, or this thing is just a stupid hysteria in a slow news cycle. Me, I’m not one for conspiracy theories, and given the sorry state of journalism right now, I’m inclined to believe that this flu is as mild as any other flu. It just happens to be a springtime flu. My prediction is that in 2 to 3 weeks there will be few, if any, more stories on swine flu. Instead, all the news will be how the Democrats have busted their first filibuster with the help of Specter.
bilups on April 29, 2009 at 11:53 AM
Mommypundit on April 29, 2009 at 10:48 AM
It is not sanctimony to state my opinion, which I stand by, that choosing to delay or not vaccinate children is a bad idea. I understand that the swine virus is a different case due to the lack of vaccine, but children can develop complications from common diseases and illnesses that should have been avoided.
TXMomof3 on April 29, 2009 at 11:55 AM
Yes and no.
The poor always bear the worst brunt in life.
And those who’s illnesses are treated have the most money and influence to gain aid. It is likely their records that are being reported. If so, then as it goes for them, so for us. Regardless of socio-economic bracket (phrase not coined yet as a kid; don’t hear that any more, either) EVERYONE is likely to suffer. TIMING is the only likely variable.
What will be significant to learn after this is over, is whether this swine flu in the 21st Century performs a close parallel to the 1918 Spanish flu epidemic. Evidently, 1/3 of the human population suffered that infection; of which, only 3% suffered fatal results from infection. (I presume that 3% figure represents all fatalities following the flu illness with ensuing complications.)
Tagging each flu outbreak from the origination point should not be treated in a racist fashion.
Mexico was already being touted in American news as a government ready to fall. They need psychological support along with training and charity from the world. If the WHO would have performed as they ought, and if Obama’s presidency had responded immediately as well as all others, the spread would have taken longer to occur. Whether that virus could spread on its own without the instantaneous global dispersement we shall never know, THIS TIME.
Putin, as wise as a serpent, has a lot more popular clout now with Russians for his pro-active anti-American continent approach.
maverick muse on April 29, 2009 at 11:56 AM
http://hotair.com/archives/2009/04/29/first-us-swine-flu-death-confirmed/
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/6398202.html
The Original post plus another link. Ask the New HHS Sec or the DHS Sec as Obama has not hired the incompetent Jocelyn Elders yet as Surgeon General.
old trooper2 on April 29, 2009 at 11:57 AM
This first US Death is actually another Mexican death.
The toddler was brought to Brownsville, TX from Mexico for treatment of other illnesses. He wasn’t manifesting flu symtpoms when he crossed the border. But he was sick, apparently.
hawksruleva on April 29, 2009 at 11:58 AM
Calling it the “Mexican Flu” references this year’s flu vs. others from the same virus.
I prefer remembering things by name instead of by a number.
maverick muse on April 29, 2009 at 11:58 AM
Actually the whole thing is a little confusing and “combine parts” from is the worst of all.
The “HN” typing describes distinct serological (blood) tests. There are many genetic variants of the H and N genes and our immune system make a much finer discrimination than the serological tests do.
There are human, swine, and bird H1N1 viruses because they have separate host populations, which normally keep them separated but since these host populations are in contact with each other then the viruses can occasionally infect a “foreign” host. When it happens that two different H1N1 strains infect the same host then they can exchange genetic material (both H, N, and the other 6 genes that the immune system and serological tests do not see).
As I understand things, the bird and swine variants mix all the time. In southeast asia it is common to keep birds and pigs together and this has been true for (at a guess) 100s of years? Hence we get “asian flu” because of where the first cases show up.
gh on April 29, 2009 at 11:58 AM
Why is Obama going along with the name change to H1N1? If he really cared about he pork industry, he’d get the EPA off their back about carbon emissions.
hawksruleva on April 29, 2009 at 11:59 AM
It’s not racist. It’s life. Poorer people in Mexico are going to be more affected by the disease because of the reasons I outlined. Upper middle class Americans aren’t going to be as severely affected for the reasons that I outlined.
It wouldn’t have shocked me if the kids in the Bronx who got the flu left the resort they were at in search of cheap booze and ended up in a slummy area of Cancun.
Illinidiva on April 29, 2009 at 12:01 PM
Pardon me if someone has already said this (on lunch, don’t have time to read 3 pages of comments) but the child who died (God rest his soul) Was a native of Mexico City with pre-existing health problems that flew to Matamoros before crossing over in Brownsville.
Calling this a “U.S.” case is pushing it, as every indication is that he was infected in Mexico
Bob Owens on April 29, 2009 at 12:01 PM
H1N1, Courtesy of Mexico. Open Borders!
Yay!
old trooper2 on April 29, 2009 at 12:02 PM
And ACORN will register Him to vote in 2010 & 2012.
Just like DEmocrat custom in Chicago.
old trooper2 on April 29, 2009 at 12:04 PM
CDC Misinformation already going on.
The new flu is H1N1 from pigs. This seasons flu is H1N1 human flu. The distinction, H1N1, is due to a serological test for the virus so the two strains look the same unless you do more tests. These days they just sequence the viral RNA (if I said DNA above it was an error) as the next step.
So if you got a flu vaccination in the fall you are protected from the current human H1N1 but *not* from the swine H1N1. Meanwhile the current human H1N1 will continue to mutate and next year, or the year after, you will need a fresh vaccination.
gh on April 29, 2009 at 12:10 PM
I think the conservatives need to recognize if they turn this into a border issue, then they are confirming the worst.
The WHO has clarified the issues surrounding this, and border patrol ain’t one of the solutions.
I don’t really care about the chatter, but I can see that it’s obviously reinforcing stereotypes about the GOP being highly racist.
Now, if that’s the case, so be it.
AnninCA on April 29, 2009 at 12:10 PM
gh…there are no vaccinations for swine flu. If you have symptoms, get to the doctor immediately. Tamiful and the other similar anti-viral drug is highly effective when administered within 48 hours.
AnninCA on April 29, 2009 at 12:11 PM
Who should be speaking about this? Normally, one would expect a spokesperson from the CDC, DHHS, DHS, or the White House. But, they seem good at teleflubbies, attacking right-wing extremists, flying photo ops, bowing to foreign tyrants, and calling their leftist policies moderate. But effectively handling a potential threat? I’ve not seen that yet.
Loxodonta on April 29, 2009 at 12:11 PM
I gotta get back to work and I’m out at a client this afternoon and won’t be back until late … so no more from me on this thread … I’ll look for new threads tomorrow.
Keep re-posting that video.
gh on April 29, 2009 at 12:12 PM
Just to clarify.
roux on April 29, 2009 at 12:14 PM
I know. That is what makes me super mad.
Everyone KNOWS this is a Mexican thing. Every single case is someone who has visted mexico, has hung out with people visiting from Mexico, came from the border up, etc. The only “faces” we have seen are the kids from NY who went on spring break (stupid.) Other than that, we are seeing a real silly rush by the pc police to rebrand this. We can’t let them do this. IT IS WHAT IT IS. Whether it has been manufactured or not, this is evidently really hurting 3rd world young adults…somehow, still, not Americans even though they had the same virus and the same great immune system supposedly being used to explain the young adults who died in Mexico. Explain that. Is it a demographic/evolutionary distinction? What?
Mommypundit on April 29, 2009 at 12:14 PM
Also from the CDC flu website…. everything says normal.
http://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/
roux on April 29, 2009 at 12:16 PM
If I fail to respond to your posts, it’s because I missed them.
btw, per the other thread joke on the final drip, recall Berlioz’ programme. The derivation is worse than the source. Following surgeries, there’s a strong abhorrence for that drug’s evil pervasion in the mind, a bad setting for “healing” and a worse departure ticket.
maverick muse on April 29, 2009 at 12:17 PM
Anna…dear gosh…it IS a border issue. Sure, we have those who came in from Mexico from Spring Break and other cases around the world. But, think about this…it is of Mexican origin. The only US death was a mexican baby brought in FROM MEXICO. Or course there is legal travel, and I am not assuming this precious baby wasn’t legally traveling here with his parents. But…seriously, this is just par for the course. Borders wont STOP a virus totally but borders can’t freaking HURT.
Mommypundit on April 29, 2009 at 12:18 PM
Correct.
Creating a vaccine for flu takes weeks. However, if you watch the video (posted several times in this thread) you will see that it is likely that the swine flu will run for many months but mostly in the southern hemisphere until the fall.
Right now tamiflu works for swine H1N1 but, I heard yesterday, not on this seasons human H1N1. By the fall they ought to be able to have created a vaccine for the swine strain and it will be essential if the swine strain has developed resistance to the anti-viral medicines.
Or the pandemic might be stopped by the fall. Let’s hope so … I really need to stop posting soon …
gh on April 29, 2009 at 12:19 PM
I recall reading at the outbreak that this was the first strain to combine genes from Swine, Bird and Human Flu that could infect humans. Don’t know if that’s true, but it caused a round of speculation that it was a bio-weapon or lab escape, which is still making the rounds.
What I remember reading generally is that flu mutates continuously and the various flu strains are regularly passed between the three host species (including humans). Having large populations of poultry or swine or both living in very close proximity with humans and in filthy conditions promotes exchanges and mutation of the virus, increasing the likelihood of a deadly strain appearing.
Loxodonta on April 29, 2009 at 12:21 PM
gh on April 29, 2009 at 11:33 AM
Yes. You are likely accurate.
But I’ve noted reports that the ill in Mexico have been turned away from treatment, that ambulances do not respond, etc.; and that is what my comment referenced.
maverick muse on April 29, 2009 at 12:22 PM
Inform yourselves, if you want an ounce of credibility, folks.
The WHO has explained why closing borders isn’t a solution to this threat.
In my hometown, we’ve got two cases, as yet unconfirmed. They come from the schools.
It’s not “illegal immigration.” It’s legal travel between Mexico and So. Cal.
And, Mommypundit, I disagree. Stopping all travel will be devastating economically. That’s a very real factor.
But, and this is a big but, perhaps the worst being said about the GOP is correct. It really is just the party of racism.
If so, it’ll die a natural but long death.
AnninCA on April 29, 2009 at 12:23 PM
maverick muse on April 29, 2009 at 12:26 PM
Well my doc wouldnt give me the flu vaccine(allergies) so I was researching Tamiflu-
Oy!
Some people using oseltamivir have had rare side effects of sudden confusion, delirium, hallucinations, unusual behavior, or self-injury. These symptoms have occurred most often in children. It is not known whether oseltamivir was the exact cause of these symptoms. However, anyone using oseltamivir should be watched closely for signs of confusion or unusual behavior. Call a doctor at once if you or the child using oseltamivir has any of these symptoms.
Anyone have any natural immune system booster suggestions to prevent getting this? Something I could also offer to my teenagers.
canditaylor68 on April 29, 2009 at 12:29 PM
Ok..Thats it..not only am I refusing to frequent Walmart. I’m blocking the Telemundo channel on my cable.
GoodBoy on April 29, 2009 at 12:30 PM
If you’re scared of Tamiflu, take your chances.
I’ve found it to be excellent with another viral infection I got a few years ago. It made a huge difference in the impact.
But you’re in charge of your choices, candi.
AnninCA on April 29, 2009 at 12:31 PM
I read that there have been many cases in hospitals in Mexico City and that doctors who had been immunized for this seasons human H1N1 had died. So I’m guessing that someone qualified has seen cases, in which the virus has been identified. At the moment there are only two viruses active and we know that because the labs have sequenced 10s, if not 100s of patient samples.
gh on April 29, 2009 at 12:31 PM
Illinidiva on April 29, 2009 at 12:01 PM
we have been in agreement
it is NOT racist to reference this Mexican flu outbreak from the virus’ place of origin
I went on to mourn for Mexico and its population, because their government is already at the brink of collapse. Who knows; perhaps the flu will somehow empower their nation’s government as people turn to it instead of against it.
maverick muse on April 29, 2009 at 12:36 PM
Anti-viral medicine is highly effective. But people MUST get to the doctor ASAP. It’s effective if administered within 48 hours.
At this stage, it’s ridiculous to worry about the source. It reminds me of people who like to say they caught a cold from so-n-so. *rolling eyes*
The virus is in our country, spreading, and it’s up to us now.
Either wash your hands like mad, follow the direction by the WHO……or don’t.
AnninCA on April 29, 2009 at 12:36 PM
Just checked the CDC weekly link someone posted above.
There is also an H3N2 variant almost as active (based on a quick glance at the numbers) as the H1N1 human one.
There is also a B-virus active so there are a total of 4 different flus happening in the US. Deaths from the swine one are completely insignificant at this point.
gh on April 29, 2009 at 12:39 PM
BNO news reporting the US is going to partially close the border with Mexico
offroadaz on April 29, 2009 at 12:39 PM
I think the reason it got away from Mexico is obvious. They do not have the lab system to test like we do.
Apparently, medical personnel is now there and trying to learn more. We don’t even know if this had to do with pigs in the American co-owned farm yet.
Heck, Mexico could be right. This might have originated in the US.
AnninCA on April 29, 2009 at 12:39 PM
If so, off…..it’s simply to contain emotions more than the illness.
AnninCA on April 29, 2009 at 12:40 PM
The two aspects of this story I find most interesting are that no non-Mexicans have yet died, and that reports out of Mexico include many deaths of otherwise healthy young adults. I have puzzled over your question as well, and have searched news reports for answers. There are none as of yet. It’s all speculation.
When disasters happen it is almost always the very young or old, the poor, the ignorant, and the already sick who are hardest hit. I am thankful for those among us who care for those in greater need, and then actually give of themselves to help. Bless them.
Loxodonta on April 29, 2009 at 12:40 PM
Nobody has figured this out yet, Lox.
AnninCA on April 29, 2009 at 12:41 PM
gh:
Let me try one more time. The 300 troops who got off the ship were people who had severely compromised immune systems from months in the trenches and live in close confinement that allowed an especially virulent strain of the flu incubate so they ended up spreading it around to the local population.
Philadelphia was particularly hard hit because the mayor and public health officials failed to take preventative measures. For example, they went ahead with the annual Mummer’s parade instead of banning public gatherings like they did in St Louis. Because of this Philadelphia suffered a 20% infection rate versus 3% for St Louis. It was the presnse of the diseased 300 that caused the problem but a failure of the goverment to impliment standard public health policies to stop the epidemic.
jerryofva on April 29, 2009 at 12:44 PM
Can’t call it Swine Flu anymore. It will now be known as ‘Anti-Pork Activities’.
- The Cat
MirCat on April 29, 2009 at 12:46 PM
They were carriers, pure and simple. A few of them would still have had latent infections. Flu Viruses don’t “incubate” in human bodies for weeks.
The people in Philadelphia did not have “compromised immune systems”. The whole problem with this particular virus is that it causes Cytokine Storms in HEALTHY people.
My English grandfather was in France from 1914 to 1918 and he only had two small health problems … from bullets.
gh on April 29, 2009 at 12:55 PM
And, no, he wasn’t an officer. He lied about his age to sign up so he’d have started as some kind of lowly private.
gh on April 29, 2009 at 12:59 PM
This was not a “US death”. The child was from Mexico, and came to Texas for treatment.
corona on April 29, 2009 at 12:59 PM
I don’t think a mexican baby dying constitutes a US death.
Nice try though…..
vapig on April 29, 2009 at 1:04 PM
Read Barry, chapter 17. The 300 sailors arrived from Boston and the first sign of illness was 4 days later when 19 sailors became ill.
You are correct about public health being bad in Philadelphia but Barry says in the first paragraph:
gh on April 29, 2009 at 1:06 PM
Human health measures are getting coverage, as is appropriate. But the information from the source is not so well addressed. Reference for me, if you would please, the latest source for your 11:58 comment.
We understand that in the co-habitation in closed quarters the viral variants mix. Nature generally does not provide closed quarters for flocks or swine (or humans), though yes, species pass each other out of doors. It is when they are confined that the living conditions GENERALLY deteriorate health. Whenever animals share living quarters with humans, there’s obvious health risks. The collective waste and shedding of cells can not be kept sanitary within limitations, and run off from said quarters spreads whatever grows when bathing or washing occurs.
Farms obviously need to take precautions. I read of the Mexican (“V.”) town’s pig farm the other day, at which point the residents were reported well.
What other nation’s permit agriculturally should NOT reflect on the American agriculture industry. American farmers do not cohabitate with the herd or the flock in their homes. Hygienic measures are the rule in the American agricultural industries. (Though lazy asshat abusive disregard for law does occur, it is not the rule, and upon being caught, costs everyone a lot in the retraction of products associated and subsequent broadcast of boycotts on clean and innocent sources.)
However, my involvement with agricultural news ended two decades ago when the agribusiness had already swallowed the family farmer. The confinement of agribusiness animals to static position throughout their lives is wrong, no matter the excuse of tender meat and tracking animal contact. The stress factor they undergo is enough to make them vulnerable to illness. Destroying entire species to placate a problem is certainly not necessarily the right way to protect human health.
That ounce of EARLIEST prevention is worth a pound of cure every subsequent step of the way.
/morons need not tag me a bleeding heart liberal. I love animals, and thank God that I may enjoy eating meat.
maverick muse on April 29, 2009 at 1:07 PM
Not saying close TRAVEL borders…I’m talking about closing OUR border…as in, build the fence.
Mommypundit on April 29, 2009 at 1:09 PM
gh on April 29, 2009 at 11:58 AM
Human health measures are getting coverage, as is appropriate. But the information from the source is not so well addressed. Reference for me, if you would please, the latest source for your 11:58 comment.
We understand that in the co-habitation in closed quarters the viral variants mix. Nature generally does not provide closed quarters for flocks or swine (or humans), though yes, species pass each other out of doors. It is when they are confined that the living conditions GENERALLY deteriorate health. Whenever animals share living quarters with humans, there’s obvious health risks. The collective waste and shedding of cells can not be kept sanitary within limitations, and run off from said quarters spreads whatever grows when bathing or washing occurs.
Farms obviously need to take precautions. I read of the Mexican (“V.”) town’s pig farm the other day, at which point the residents were reported well.
What other nation’s permit agriculturally should NOT reflect on the American agriculture industry. American farmers do not cohabitate with the herd or the flock in their homes. Hygienic measures are the rule in the American agricultural industries. (Though lazy asshat abusive disregard for law does occur, it is not the rule, and upon being caught, costs everyone a lot in the retraction of products associated and subsequent broadcast of boycotts on clean and innocent sources.)
However, my involvement with agricultural news ended two decades ago when the agribusiness had already swallowed the family farmer. The confinement of agribusiness animals to static position throughout their lives is wrong, no matter the excuse of tender meat and tracking animal contact. The stress factor they undergo is enough to make them vulnerable to illness. Destroying entire species to placate a problem is certainly not necessarily the right way to protect human health.
That ounce of EARLIEST prevention is worth a pound of cure every subsequent step of the way.
/morons need not tag me a bleeding heart liberal. I love animals, and thank God that I may enjoy eating meat.
maverick muse on April 29, 2009 at 1:10 PM
whatever
maverick muse on April 29, 2009 at 1:10 PM
You have to remember, when he gave his speech at the temple, he said; “This is the momemt when the earth began to heal.”
He didn’t say anything about people.
Star20 on April 29, 2009 at 1:10 PM
gh on April 29, 2009 at 11:58 AM
But the information from the animal source is not so well addressed. Reference for me, if you would please, the latest source for your 11:58 comment.
maverick muse on April 29, 2009 at 1:13 PM
Cleburne school district (South of Fort Worth) has shut down because of swine flu.
http://www.nbcdfw.com/health/topics/More-N-Texas-School-Close-Due-to-Swine-Flu.html
In retaliation I drove by and threw a bottle of Lysol at a Taco Bell then went to a catholic church and kicked a nun.
GoodBoy on April 29, 2009 at 1:16 PM
gh:
Again, as per my original post, virtually everybody in 1918 had what we call a compromised immune system. Ever bother to check mortality from disease in the 20-50 population in the early twentieth century? People would die from minor infections all the time. You seem to believe that the definition of a healthy person is the same as it was 100 years ago.
jerryofva on April 29, 2009 at 1:18 PM
Loxodonta on April 29, 2009 at 12:11 PM
Those with eyes to see, let them see.
The internet provides access SO FAR to all things made public.
Observe reports as well as your instincts.
We’ll need to go surf to find better sources.
Bibliography
/establishing your own is such a task, argh
I’ll be logging off after finishing catching up the ‘so far’ thread comments.
maverick muse on April 29, 2009 at 1:22 PM
I guess the only question I have (and I believe you, I am just sorting this out) is why the only deaths in Mexico are the ones who *should* have the relatively strongest immune systems and no other group?
Mommypundit on April 29, 2009 at 1:23 PM
No.
Your original post said:
You said nothing about “everyone”.
If you have a reference, I might read it but I question your assertions about “the definition of a healthy person”. People died from infections because there were no antibiotics. Penecillin, the first, was discovered between WW1 and WW2.
gh on April 29, 2009 at 1:25 PM
I understand. No problem. And thanks for double posting so frequently so that I can more easily find your posts.
As to the previous thread and this one, I prefer a theme that is more calming and hopeful.
Ubi caritas et amor, Deus ibi est.
Where charity and love are, God is there.
Loxodonta on April 29, 2009 at 1:26 PM
We need a border fence for many very good reasons. Containing the flu is almost certainly not one of them, though.
Loxodonta on April 29, 2009 at 1:28 PM
Most of it is from wikipedia.
The part about transfer between birds and pigs has been known since the 1970s. There were articles in Scientific American. I had a subscription in high school.
I can’t remember where I read about the index case (that was not in my 11:58 post — I think in the Toronto Star at my in-laws house last night.
I got interested in flu about 2 or 3 weeks ago and read all the wikipedia stuff plus I looked at stuff from swiss-prot. I can’t remember why but my daughter took a uni course in systems biology this term and she had to use some of the swiss-prot tools. I am familiar with them from employment about 10 years ago so I was messing about. I really can’t remember why I started reading about flu. It was fortuitous.
gh on April 29, 2009 at 1:33 PM
What about any third world diseases? Any at all? Or, is it perfectly fine that we have an introduction of many illnesses we had nipped in the bud and have forced to provide medical care to these lawbreakers? It infuriates me that ADULTS are getting free treatment in our hospitals, driving up costs, and now we are getting railroaded into socialized medicine. It’s complete, utter madness.
Mommypundit on April 29, 2009 at 1:34 PM
“I recall reading at the outbreak that this was the first strain to combine genes from Swine, Bird and Human Flu that could infect humans.” –ditto
“What I remember reading generally is that flu mutates continuously and the various flu strains are regularly passed between the three host species (including humans). ” –hm
the passage of a flu virus between species, enabled by closely confined quarters, would “regularly pass between the three host species”?
maverick muse on April 29, 2009 at 1:34 PM
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