Bybee says “no regrets”

posted at 9:26 am on April 29, 2009 by Ed Morrissey

When Barack Obama released Jay Bybee’s 2002 memos on enhanced interrogations, the Washington Post reported that Bybee recently expressed regret for his work.  The New York Times today says that the Post got it wrong.  Bybee stands by his work, even though it has cost him friends and prompted credential investigations:

Judge Jay S. Bybee broke his silence on Tuesday and defended the conclusions of legal memorandums he had signed as a Bush administration lawyer that allowed use of several coercive interrogation practices on suspected terrorists.

Judge Bybee, who issued the memorandums as the head of the Office of Legal Counsel and was later nominated to the federal appeals court by President George W. Bush, said in a statement in response to questions from The New York Times that he continued to believe that the memorandums represented “a good-faith analysis of the law” that properly defined the thin line between harsh treatment and torture. …

Judge Bybee said he was issuing a statement following reports that he had regrets over his role in the memorandums, including an article in The Washington Post on Saturday to that effect. Given the widespread criticism of the memorandums, he said he would have done some things differently, like clarifying and sharpening the analysis of some of his answers to help the public better understand the basis for his conclusions.

But he said: “The central question for lawyers was a narrow one; locate, under the statutory definition, the thin line between harsh treatment of a high-ranking Al Qaeda terrorist that is not torture and harsh treatment that is. I believed at the time, and continue to believe today, that the conclusions were legally correct.”

Other administration lawyers agreed with those conclusions, Judge Bybee said.

“The legal question was and is difficult,” he said. “And the stakes for the country were significant no matter what our opinion. In that context, we gave our best, honest advice, based on our good-faith analysis of the law.”

Considering the pressures faced by the executive branch at the time, one can understand why Bybee gave the advice he did in 2002.  Everyone expected another attack, and many had been highly critical of the Bush administration for missing opportunities to stop the 9/11 attack before it happened.  The US captured high-ranking members of the al-Qaeda network who knew details of further attacks, and no one wanted to let them hit America again.

I still believe Bybee got it wrong, though, in his advice on waterboarding.  He acknowledged that waterboarding instilled an “imminent threat of death,” a predicate of the US law prohibiting mental torture, but advised that the interrogators could use it without informing the subject that he would not be physically harmed and that medical personnel were on hand to prevent injury.  Bybee rationalized this by saying that mental anguish had to last “months or years,” which would completely invalidate the “imminent threat of death” clause in the statute.  (In the event, interrogators reportedly told Abu Zubaydah and Khalid Sheikh Mohammed that the process wasn’t fatal.)

This still misses the larger point, though, about responsibility for alleged torture.  The lawyers neither ordered nor approved nor conducted the torture.  There is no legal framework for trying the lawyers who gave the advice that doesn’t include trying the interrogators, the people who ordered the procedures, and the people who approved the procedures — including leading members of Congress who blessed these procedures.  Going after Bybee is a ridiculous display of impotence, and releasing just the OLC memos without releasing the records of Congressional briefings is a cheap shot.


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The art of the Cheap Shot is the modus operandi of the Obama Administration.

kingsjester on April 29, 2009 at 9:30 AM

With total incompetence being exhibited at every level by the Obama administration, look for attacks on conservatives that acted in good faith to protect our nation to backfire like everything else seems to do.

volsense on April 29, 2009 at 9:33 AM

I am willing to say that water boarding is torture when others agree that Abortion is murder. Then we can prosecute people for using government resources to carryout “torture” and also prosecute people for using government funds for carrying out “murder”. That is a true bi-partisan solution.

tdavisjr on April 29, 2009 at 9:33 AM

When History™ is being made, people who don’t fit the template need to be cleared out of the way.

Bishop on April 29, 2009 at 9:33 AM

doesn’t matter… mao obama got the news cycle he wanted

historical footnotes & accuracy have no relevance in today’s 24 hour newscycle

gatorboy on April 29, 2009 at 9:35 AM

OT for all you Minnesotans, we just got our first swine flu case in Cold Spring, MN at a high school; they shut the school down.

Bishop on April 29, 2009 at 9:37 AM

I am willing to say that water boarding is torture when others agree that Abortion is murder. Then we can prosecute people for using government resources to carryout “torture” and also prosecute people for using government funds for carrying out “murder”. That is a true bi-partisan solution.

Well said.

Also, why is LittleGreenFootballs still listed under the “War on Terror” links here?

That site has gone completely off the deep end.

You-Eh-Vee on April 29, 2009 at 9:38 AM

It’s kind of like suing your financial adviser for giving you crap advice on stocks.

(Which I would like to do.)

But, ultimately, I pulled the trigger. I can only sue myself.

amkun on April 29, 2009 at 9:39 AM

The New York Times today says that the Post got it wrong.

Slimes vs. ComPost.
I love it when libs fight each other.

jgapinoy on April 29, 2009 at 9:40 AM

The art of the Cheap Shot is the modus operandi of the Obama Administration.

kingsjester on April 29, 2009 at 9:30 AM

They’re good at the art of something else that starts with C and S.

thomasaur on April 29, 2009 at 9:44 AM

Speaking of torture, I wonder how the environinnies will spin this one to scare the kids?

It’s a NEW ICE AGE!!11@!1

The research aircraft “Polar 5” today concluded its Arctic expedition in Canada. During the flight, researchers measured the current ice thickness at the North Pole and in areas that have never before been surveyed. The result: The sea-ice in the surveyed areas is apparently thicker than scientists had suspected.

Normally, newly formed ice measures some two meters in thickness after two years. “Here, we measured ice thickness up to four meters,” said a spokesperson for Bremerhaven’s Alfred Wegener Institute for Polar and Marine Research. At present, this result contradicts the warming of the sea water, according to the scientists.

Beagle on April 29, 2009 at 9:44 AM

Ed, I’m still going crazy on how you think waterboarding a few jihadis is torture. I mean what’s better seeing 3000 more people go up in smoke forever or dumping some water on a jihadi for thirty seconds. You can’t be serious. Plus they told the retards they weren’t going to die before fillin ‘er up, so what’s the big deal?

youngO on April 29, 2009 at 9:44 AM

Really? I would have thought that any sane site would have dropped any link to Big Purple Baseballs years ago.

corona on April 29, 2009 at 9:44 AM

The criminalization of legal advice has some very interesting possibilities in its application to other fields of law. The Obamatrons are laying the groundwork to get a review of a lawyer’s intent probed in a criminal court. The Dem consiglieri might want to look at exactly what their chances are of totalitianism actually taking over before the winds change. Super-RICO here we come.

rrroark on April 29, 2009 at 9:44 AM

I am willing to say that water boarding is torture when others agree that Abortion is murder. Then we can prosecute people for using government resources to carryout “torture” and also prosecute people for using government funds for carrying out “murder”. That is a true bi-partisan solution.

tdavisjr on April 29, 2009 at 9:33 AM

+1. The hypocrisy on the left is palpable.

Vashta.Nerada on April 29, 2009 at 9:45 AM

BTW, if waterboarding is torture, doesn’t that allow all us that were subjected to it during SERE training to sue the government?

rrroark on April 29, 2009 at 9:47 AM

One need only look to the release of the memos and the resulting debacle to cement the fact that Obama is a political rookie and a bad one at that. I agree with Bill Kristol, go after everyone, Cheney, Pelosi, Bush, et al and see where that gets you. The LAST thing that Obama wants is a Cheney death stare as he owns the One and Congress under oath in some public hearing. How he couldn’t see this coming escapes me – but then again so does his election as POTUS.

What this whole thing really shows (and other leaders have to know this) is that Obama is a wimp that hurls insults and when challenged backs down. I can’t imagine that this is lost on others that sense an opening to press their own interests/desires against the US. Everyone that keeps waiting for Obama to screw up will just have to be patient because it’s coming and it will be slow but sure.

volnation on April 29, 2009 at 9:52 AM

Torture schmorture, my kids are “tortured” every time they hit the little pool at the end of the Slip-n-Slide and water is blasted into every hole in their head.

Now I’ve done it, Oflyby is going to outlaw kid’s water toys.

Bishop on April 29, 2009 at 9:53 AM

As I said (ahem) after the Post report, let’s wait until the Judge makes a public statement and not rely on secondary sources to criticize him.

One of the questions that I’d like to know is whether what the OLC thought was being undertaken was what actually was done.

Let’s face: interrogation programs is a government program, after all. And we all know the history of government programs.

I still think they erred in allowing a well-intended, limited harsh program to uncover impending attacks to be expanded beyond that narrow or limited goal.

That, in my view, was wrong.

SteveMG on April 29, 2009 at 9:53 AM

Just or unjust, far too many parties blessed this program for anyone to play “arm-chair” quarterback now.

pjean on April 29, 2009 at 9:56 AM

This is just like the crazies who viciously attacked the LDS Church for supporting Prop 8, yet left the black & hispanic communities alone, even though all 3 supported the proposition in large numbers. They go after the targets that fit their stereotype of the enemy — in this case, the evil white republican — but not those that are even more complicit, but don’t fit the stereotype — such as Nancy Pelosi.

KS Rex on April 29, 2009 at 9:58 AM

So long as KSM was told that the procedure was not fatal, it was not torture. If he had irrational fears after being so informed, that’s his problem.

Bybee’s situation is that whether he was right or wrong, or even if he was in the wheelhouse of possible legal interpretations, is all irrelevant. The Dem’s want a torture scalp. Impeachment is a political process and the law has very little to do with it (Clinton taught us that). If the Dem’s can muster the votes, he’ll be gone.

tommylotto on April 29, 2009 at 10:06 AM

When this program was trotted out in 2002 I would bet that 75% or more would have approved of it. So saying differently now only shows that it is a persecution of the people who were entrusted to keep us safe.

thomasaur on April 29, 2009 at 10:10 AM

OT for all you Minnesotans, we just got our first swine flu case in Cold Spring, MN at a high school; they shut the school down.

Bishop on April 29, 2009 at 9:37 AM

The hypocrisy on the left is palpable.Vashta.Nerada on April 29, 2009 at 9:45 AM


Hypocrisy:

And the Obama-controlled media march’s on with these pathetic distractions while the left drives their main agenda of suicidal national debt that should be the public outrage. Torture memos, swine flu, Specter defection is all the media is purposely talking about.

SWINE FLU HYPE!

TOTAL U.S. flu death total now 13000 for 2009, expected to be… 36000.

Thats right. Since January 13000 have died from the flu in the US. Not the swine flu though, just the regular flu. I dont think anyone in the US has died from swine flu yet. This is kind of interesting given the current hysteria over swine flu. Can you imagine how crazy it would get if the swine flu were to kill 36000 people in the US this year? That likely will not happen because we are actually on the downside of flu season. The flu virus is strongest during cool months and typically peters out in summer months. We are past the normal peak time for flu, but I doubt that will stop them from hyping the dreaded swine flu.

Do you really want to feel SICK???

The U.S. Economy was down 6.1 percent in the first quarter of this year while:

700 billion has been infused in TARP money
400 billion FY 2009 (8000 earmarks)
700 billion in a stimulas/pork filled bill
3.2 Trillion FY 2010 Pending in the House
650 Billion in new government proposed health care take-over, (down payment only)
Energy and Education policies still on the table (estimated cost–800 billion to 1.5 trillion)

5 TRILLION 650 BILLION BEFORE EDUCATION AND ENERGY POLICIES ARE ADDED.

And we are worrying about the swine flu and torture memos???

Rovin on April 29, 2009 at 10:11 AM

the fact that Journalist can willingly go under the same Waterboarding, just so they can then write about it, should be enough proof its not actual torture.

jp on April 29, 2009 at 10:13 AM

The U.S. Economy was down 6.1 percent in the first quarter of this year while:

700 billion has been infused in TARP money
400 billion FY 2009 (8000 earmarks)
700 billion in a stimulas/pork filled bill
3.2 Trillion FY 2010 Pending in the House
650 Billion in new government proposed health care take-over, (down payment only)
Energy and Education policies still on the table (estimated cost–800 billion to 1.5 trillion)

5 TRILLION 650 BILLION BEFORE EDUCATION AND ENERGY POLICIES ARE ADDED.

And we are worrying about the swine flu and torture memos???

You forgot the 900 billion to Gaza.

You-Eh-Vee on April 29, 2009 at 10:14 AM

I wonder if the CIA will be viewing Monty Python reruns to get new interrogation techniques – I hear The Comfy Chair can be brutal if properly applied.

Queen0fCups on April 29, 2009 at 10:16 AM

A great man in the making. It’s interesting to know how many good n competent people were working for the Bush administration: this man, John Bolton, Doug Feith etc. It took all them to carry the country through 9/11 and fight the war against Islamic terrorism. They were all hounded out of office and stigmatized and now, maybe they’ll never be allowed to find work again. But it shows in the wreckage of the govt., the sheer incompetence of the enterprise Obama is leading today.

promachus on April 29, 2009 at 10:19 AM

tdavisjr on April 29, 2009 at 9:33 AM

Well said. This is a point that needs to be made over and over.

milwife88 on April 29, 2009 at 10:21 AM

I’ve tried hard, so very hard, to find a legal, moral or ethical objection to waterboarding…

…and I simply can’t.

We are at war with inhuman monsters who think nothing of putting explosives in a soccer ball so a bunch of kids will get blown up.

These “people” love to slowly cut the heads off of people with dull, rusty knives – the better to make the person suffer.

So, no, I’m not upset about water boarding.

And, no, I don’t think our country “lost it’s soul” (as some on the left have opined) because we put a couple of soulless monstrosities in an uncomfortable position.

And, no, I don’t think that water boarding is in any way equivalent to what these Islamic terrorists do to their prisoners.

Religious_Zealot on April 29, 2009 at 10:25 AM

This is why Ed was not an administration lawyer and is not a federal judge.

thebadoutlaw on April 29, 2009 at 10:25 AM

I trust you are all aware that this dustup concerning “torture” is being promoted by the mind and money of Mr George Soros. I bet if we were to waterboard him, we might find some info leaks from Treasury or the White House that explain why he is able to play the market so shrewdly and so “having a great crisis.”

Chaz on April 29, 2009 at 10:36 AM

If Bush didn’t care about the law, why would he even ask the OLC for an opinion? It’s pretty obvious to me that the Bush administration cared about legalities and the constitution much more than the Obama administration has.

roux on April 29, 2009 at 10:45 AM

Ed, if you want “torture”, read the NY Times’ Drama Critic Frankie Rich’s pile of droppings from Sunday about Bybee. Absolutely sickening.

Del Dolemonte on April 29, 2009 at 10:45 AM

This whole thing started as a stupid attempt by the White House to throw some red meat to the restless nutroots. But to the obvious surprise of the Administration, the Bush people have fought back and not only called the bet, but raised it. And the nutroots are not satisfied, they want Cheney tried and imprisoned, and anything short of that is going to continue to draw their ire. The White House put its own ass in a sling here.

rockmom on April 29, 2009 at 10:59 AM

This letter appeared in the Las Vegas Review Journal this morning. This is so egregious it should never have seen the light of day. The opinion of this man is what one might expect to see on DKOS or Huffington and I am mortified that the RJ printed it.

Obama’s media has made the impression it wanted. Conservatives are evil. Bush and Cheney are evil. Long live Dear Leader, our compassionate savior.

Unfit for the bench

To the editor:

With reference to your coverage of Jay S. Bybee (Saturday Review-Journal), I would state that I am in no way convinced that he is fit to sit in the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals or serve in any other judicial post. This man should be relieved of his position and disbarred for life from the practice of law.

By his willingness to sign the “Bybee Torture Memo,” he has proved himself to be a man without honor or judgment. A man willing to do anything to advance his career.

He knew full well what he was doing when he signed this memo and, even though he knew this would inevitably eventually cause his country and his profession to be regarded with hatred, ridicule and contempt, he did it anyway.

I would tar Mr. Bybee and Saddam Hussein with the same brush when it comes to the issue of torture, except for one thing: Saddam also did a lot of good for his country, Iraq, whereas Mr. Bybee has done nothing for his except plunge it into infamy.

How can any litigant who appears before his court be assured of a fair decision when Mr. Bybee was willing to prostitute himself by colluding with others to violate U.S. law, international law and human rights for personal gain — a lifetime appointment to the 9th Circuit?

I seriously doubt that this man has any remaining vestige of decency. But if he has, he should resign immediately.

Jvette on April 29, 2009 at 11:00 AM

I trust you are all aware that this dustup concerning “torture” is being promoted by the mind and money of Mr George Soros. I bet if we were to waterboard him, we might find some info leaks from Treasury or the White House that explain why he is able to play the market so shrewdly and so “having a great crisis.”

Chaz on April 29, 2009 at 10:36 AM

I am wondering if Soros is the dragon in the book of Revelation who gives power to the beast.

platypus on April 29, 2009 at 11:05 AM

Non, je ne regrette rien

Seemed appropriate.

CK MacLeod on April 29, 2009 at 11:11 AM

as a member of the judiciary, bybee should keep his mouth firmly shut. firmly. shut. let cheney do the talking because cheney is better at it.

kelley in virginia on April 29, 2009 at 11:15 AM

any of the cheneys.

kelley in virginia on April 29, 2009 at 11:15 AM


waterboarding instilled an “imminent threat of death,” a predicate of the US law prohibiting mental torture,

This is non-nonsensical PC bullshit. I seriously doubt that there was ever a POW who did not carry the thought that they were under “imminent threat of death” at some time during their captivity. Are US troops to go around all day long comforting captives, telling them they have nothing to fear? The entire US ‘torture’ process was a mind game, setting up the person so that their own imagination was actually working against them.

GarandFan on April 29, 2009 at 11:19 AM

would tar Mr. Bybee and Saddam Hussein with the same brush when it comes to the issue of torture, except for one thing: Saddam also did a lot of good for his country, Iraq, whereas Mr. Bybee has done nothing for his except plunge it into infamy.

this is a truely amazing, troubling and Evil statement by whoever wrote it and published it

jp on April 29, 2009 at 11:20 AM

There is no legal framework for trying the lawyers who gave the advice that doesn’t include trying the interrogators, the people who ordered the procedures, and the people who approved the procedures — including leading members of Congress who blessed these procedures.

I’m not sure that’s true. It’s still not clear what the prosecution would be, exactly, but conspiracy to commit torture would not necessarily have to include the interrogators, for example.

But regardless, they’re talking about impeaching him also, and that’s a completely legitimate goal assuming they believe that what he’s done rises to a high enough level.

tneloms on April 29, 2009 at 11:22 AM

Ordinarily I would agree with kelley, but in this case Bybee was right to correct the Post’s erroneous report. I doubt we will hear anything else from him on this.

rockmom on April 29, 2009 at 11:24 AM

tdavisjr on April 29, 2009 at 9:33 AM

Based on my copying it, and then seeing several others commenting on it, BEST COMMENT OF THE DAY, probably of the week, and some votes for of the year.

Well Done!

kirkill on April 29, 2009 at 11:48 AM

would tar Mr. Bybee and Saddam Hussein with the same brush when it comes to the issue of torture, except for one thing: Saddam also did a lot of good for his country, Iraq, whereas Mr. Bybee has done nothing for his except plunge it into infamy.

this is a truely amazing, troubling and Evil statement by whoever wrote it and published it

jp on April 29, 2009 at 11:20 AM

Yea, I was shocked to read it. This is what the left wing thinks and it is right in line with what Obama wants Americans to think. Especially troubling is that this writer believes that Hussein did good things in Iraq. As I recall, Hitler did good things for Germany too.

Jvette on April 29, 2009 at 11:57 AM

I am willing to say that water boarding is torture when others agree that Abortion is murder. Then we can prosecute people for using government resources to carryout “torture” and also prosecute people for using government funds for carrying out “murder”. That is a true bi-partisan solution.

tdavisjr on April 29, 2009 at 9:33 AM
+1. The hypocrisy on the left is palpable.

Vashta.Nerada on April 29, 2009 at 9:45 AM

Yes, let’s review Roe v. Wade for its legal worthiness. The reasoning is preposterous, as so many Supreme Court decisions have been, particularly since the Warren Court. And then let’s prosecute all the judges and lawyers who have consented to the murder of millions.

mr1216 on April 29, 2009 at 11:59 AM

Jvette on April 29, 2009 at 11:57 AM

the Trump Card here is the readily available Torture Videos, and I mean real, hardcore snuff film Torture, that Saddam’s Regime carried out.

jp on April 29, 2009 at 12:05 PM

Transfer of wealth. If Egypt is ready to slaughter 300,000 hogs as a premptive flu event, why not ask them to make sausage to feed starving Muslims in gaza. Save us sending food and supplies.

seven on April 29, 2009 at 12:10 PM

Good for Bybee.

AnninCA on April 29, 2009 at 12:12 PM

the Trump Card here is the readily available Torture Videos, and I mean real, hardcore snuff film Torture, that Saddam’s Regime carried out.

jp on April 29, 2009 at 12:05 PM

Unfortunately, these types are well aware of Saddam’s cruelty to his own people. They don’t care. Afterall, he did good things for Iraq.

This is the liberal form of indulgences. Any act they carry out, no matter how heinous is excused because they are the champions of the poor and oppressed.

Jvette on April 29, 2009 at 12:17 PM

However wrong he is, I’m sure this is a matter of conscience for Ed. I understand that he must follow his conscience. So must we all. That so many of us disagree with him doesn’t make our consciences less developed than his. His conscience just tilts differently.

SKYFOX on April 29, 2009 at 12:20 PM

There is not great “Truth” in this story. We either decide as a society that we’re not convinced torture really gains us that much or not.

It’s a community decision.

AnninCA on April 29, 2009 at 12:34 PM

No, Mr. President. Cheap shots are not the proper way to cut spending.

mile66 on April 29, 2009 at 12:38 PM

Just or unjust, far too many parties blessed this program for anyone to play “arm-chair” quarterback now.

pjean on April 29, 2009 at 9:56 AM

Starting with The Holy Pelosi.

BobMbx on April 29, 2009 at 12:52 PM

How about checking this from Robert over at JW with Geert
W:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/025884.php#more

The left does nothing without thinking 2-3 moves to the mid-game. Just consider the set up. This is not about torture! It’s not even about religion!
It is about a totalitarian ideology controlling EVERY aspect of your life.
Do not give in.

OkieDoc on April 29, 2009 at 12:53 PM

I still believe Bybee got it wrong, though, in his advice on waterboarding.

I will never apologize for shooting someone breaking and entering into my home to cause harm.

American servicemen should never have to say, “sorry, but we’re going to have to shoot at you now”.

People who protect this nation, from border patrol agents to the CIA, from your friendly neighborhood police officer to the military, should ever have to apologize for defending this nation.

No one. NO ONE has the right to second guess the actions of those who have been charged with the protection of this nation or its citizens when those actions have been executed well within the scope of the law.

madmonkphotog on April 29, 2009 at 1:19 PM

Based on my copying it, and then seeing several others commenting on it, BEST COMMENT OF THE DAY, probably of the week, and some votes for of the year.

Well Done!

kirkill on April 29, 2009 at 11:48 AM

Thanks. I don’t think people are seriously thinking this one through. Ed, take note. Obama keep saying using this method doesn’t uphold American values. Well then, when our side try to say that the unnecessary killing of the unborn doesn’t uphold American values either, they treat us as if we are some “right-wing extremist”. So you can’t have it both ways. I’m speaking up for the innocent, they are speaking up for the terrorist.

tdavisjr on April 29, 2009 at 2:14 PM

While libs fret over waterboarding, I remind them of what the jihadis did to Richard Pearl, slcing his head off cut by cut as he screamed in agony.
That was torture, inflicted to terrorize us. My God, my skin crawls thinking of what that man went through.
Waterboarding? Give me a friggin’ break.

ChicagoBlues on April 29, 2009 at 2:27 PM

Ed,

You consistently get this one wrong. KSM was Waterboarded >100 times. How many times did he have to be waterboarded before he figured out that it wasn’t going to kill him? 1? 2? How many times was he waterboarded before he gave up any information? 20? 30?

For that matter, how bright do you have to be to figure out that water poured on saran wrap over your face isn’t going to cause you to drown?

Waterboarding, as I understand it, works because it makes your body feel like it’s drowning, even though your mind knows you’re not.

Put a gun to someone’s head, and threaten to pull the trigger if they don’t tell you what you want? That’s “imminent threat of death”. Repeatedly do the same thing to someone, where tehy know they’ve survived previous application, not because of luck (i.e. Russian Roulette), but because what’s being done to them simply won’t harm them?

That’s not “imminent threat of death”. All the hand-wringing in the world won’t change that.

Terrorists do not have the right to keep secrets from us. They dont’ want to get waterboarded? Great. Tell us everything we want to know.

Greg Q on April 29, 2009 at 2:50 PM

Bybee stands by his work, even though it has cost him friends…

Perhaps Judge Bybee can recover his friends, or make some new “progressive” pals by granting bail, or probation, to some child molesters.

Incidentally, apropos the “abortion as murder” comments above, apart from abortion being homicide, isn’t it also torture? I have seen those horrible videos of unborn babies trying to avoid the forceps and it sure looked like they were in a lot of pain.

Perhaps someone should ask Pres. Obama, in furtherance of his “no torture” policy, whether unborn babies ought to be administered an anaesthetic before they are aborted.

Just wondering.

Blaise on April 29, 2009 at 2:55 PM