UAW to get 39% of GM, Obama administration 50% …
posted at 10:06 am on April 28, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
Imagine you’re one of the bondholders of GM, the people who bought the automaker’s debt in order to invest in the company and keep it running over the last several years. Now that the company is near collapse, the Treasury offers you this deal. Even though you own $27 billion in GM bonds, you’d get 10% of the company. The UAW, which has a claim on $20 billion for its health-care and pensions obligations, would only have to sacrifice half of that to get 39%. The feds, who will invest another $9 billion to bring their total investment to the same level as your bonds, wants 51%.
Meanwhile, however, bondholders pose a major stumbling block to the restructuring. Under the proposed offering which GM filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission, investors holding $27.2 billion of GM bonds would swap those bonds for 10 percent of the equity shares of the restructured company. The United Auto Workers would get up to 39 percent of the company in return for half of the $20 billion GM owes to a health fund for retired workers. Current shareholders would get 1 percent of the new shares.
The Treasury said that to meet restructuring goals and to fulfill bond covenants, the restructuring proposal must win the support of 90 percent of the bondholders, an uphill battle because bondholders and analysts said the union had received more favorable terms even though its legal claim in bankruptcy court would be equal to the bondholders’. Investors who bought GM bonds in 2003 are particularly upset at being portrayed as obstacles because those bonds were used to provide funds for GM workers’ pension plan.
“We are deeply concerned with today’s decision by GM and the auto task force to offer only a small, inequitable percentage of stock to its bondholders in exchange for their bonds,” advisers to an ad hoc group of bondholders said in a statement last night. “We believe the offer to be a blatant disregard of fairness for the bondholders who have funded this company and amounts to using taxpayer money to show political favoritism of one creditor over another.”
Some advisers said that GM bondholders, if they are patient, might get more money from a bankruptcy proceeding than they are being offered under the new restructuring plan.
Does anyone at the Treasury do math any longer? The total sacrifice of all three parties would be $64 billion, of which the federal government and the bondholders are contributing the same percentage: 42.2%. The UAW will contribute about 15.6%. Why would the Obama administration expect bondholders to contribute 42% of the solution in order to gain 10% of the company? Granted, GM wasn’t exactly the best-run business, but only a bureaucrat would take that kind of offer — or be arrogant enough to make that kind of offer.
Small wonder the bondholders are balking at this proposal. They’d be better off in bankruptcy court, where their claims would get equal weight on a cost basis with the UAW and Treasury.
This is not just mere mathematical incompetence, however. Obama and his team want to engineer a political bankruptcy and dismantling of GM in order to pick their own winners and losers. Granting the UAW almost 40% of the company on a 15% investment makes no sense outside of Obama’s need to keep unions on his side while GM commits to much-needed downsizing and brand consolidation.
The Obama administration claims that the de facto nationalization of GM through their own claim on a majority stake in the company is an unhappy coincidence, but few are buying that explanation:
“Government ownership is an unfortunate outcome of this, not a goal,” said one person familiar with Obama administration deliberations and who spoke on condition of anonymity in order to preserve his relationships with officials. He said the government “could have gotten nothing for something, or something for something” and that it insisted on a 50 percent stake to leave open the potential to recover some of the $18 billion the Treasury Department has already lent GM and the additional $9 billion that it would inject under the new plan.
Some members of Congress and economists expressed concern that the government was effectively nationalizing GM and might exert influence over company decisions, despite its denials. Luigi Zingales, a finance professor of finance at the University of Chicago, said it would be “irresistible for the political system not to exercise some pressure. Do you not think they will push GM to make green cars? Maybe that’s the right thing to do and maybe not. But it shouldn’t be decided by Congress.”
The clear goal from the Obama administration is nationalization, in order to protect their relationships with unions, starting with the UAW. The green-car motivation plays a role as well. Obama talked often of the need to overhaul the American auto industry in order to produce energy-efficient cars on renewables. If he owns a majority stake in GM, Obama can make those decisions himself, along with the Democrats in Congress. The federal government never fails to exercise power it grants itself, and anyone who thinks that Obama would not take advantage of that majority position is either drinking the Democratic Kool-Aid or simply hasn’t paid attention.
If they didn’t want the majority position, why did they demand it in this offer to the bondholders, especially since they’re not investing any more than the private sector did? They didn’t demand that power just to leave it on the sidelines.
Addendum: I can’t resist pointing out the Department of Redundancy Department moment in the WaPo’s piece: “Luigi Zingales, a finance professor of finance at the University of Chicago …”










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The goal in this, as with all other programs Barry is pushing, is to take money from capitalists, and give it to leeches. Limbaugh was right, it is all about anger.
Vashta.Nerada on April 28, 2009 at 10:09 AM
So what incentive is there for me to buy GM vehicles?
eforhan on April 28, 2009 at 10:10 AM
That would be great if these bondholders tell obama and gang to shove this deal where the sun don’t shine.
Better for ALL bondholders to give the govn’t a huge pushback on this one – and lose it all – rather than essentially lose it all and set a terrible precedent for intrusive gov’t abuse and action.
Time for a high-stakes game of capitalist chicken with these phonies from Chicago.
gatorboy on April 28, 2009 at 10:10 AM
Isn’t this just what Rush predicted?????? He truly is a genious!!!!
bloggless on April 28, 2009 at 10:11 AM
Once again Obama proves that government is totally capable of running healthcare for every American.
And that this is the most ethical administration evah!!!eleventy111!1one11!!!
gwelf on April 28, 2009 at 10:11 AM
the bond holders will flush the company before taking the deal… especially as many had bought credit default swaps.
The gov. might be able to force its position with new money, but the employees are still general unsecured creditors
phreshone on April 28, 2009 at 10:12 AM
liberlism is not about equality, it is about ENVY
Ris4victory on April 28, 2009 at 10:12 AM
If you buy a GM car now, you still have a choice in the matter. Wait around 36-48 months and you may not have a choice… well, maybe you’d still get to choose what color GM car you get, but other car manufacturer choices will be gone.
gatorboy on April 28, 2009 at 10:13 AM
Predicted here, there, everywhere months ago. Democrat governance is using the power of government to enrich yourself, friends, family, and political allies.
Skandia Recluse on April 28, 2009 at 10:13 AM
Duh.
And make it a law requiring us to buy them, therefore running the other car companies into the ground or the governments arms, same difference.
cntrlfrk on April 28, 2009 at 10:13 AM
UAW is reported to be getting 55% of the new Chrysler. There will be a seat on the board of directors for the “Retirees Health Care Trust.” Which one was Gettlefinger in Atlas Shrugged?
JiangxiDad on April 28, 2009 at 10:14 AM
Gee, the union is gonna take over? Imagine the opportunities for corruption.
bloggless on April 28, 2009 at 10:14 AM
+1
Stands to reason that they’d wash out at 10% in that scenario too, but they’d at least have some dignity and wouldn’t have to walk around bow legged
gatorboy on April 28, 2009 at 10:14 AM
Capitalism = Pontiac
cntrlfrk on April 28, 2009 at 10:14 AM
Let’s hope so!!
JiangxiDad on April 28, 2009 at 10:15 AM
If GM truly becomes Government Motors, it will perish. 30% of the consuming people, like many on this site, will refuse to buy cars from GM.
WashJeff on April 28, 2009 at 10:15 AM
Good question. I don’t think Obama is going to be able to pull off a complete nationalization of the auto industry but if he doesn’t then he’s just propping up a dead company. Surely, the new GM will be even more inefficient and less profitable than before as government steps in to mandate ‘green business’ and favors the unions. Other auto makers in the US, most notably Toyota and Honda, will do even better. So, GM becomes a sink hole for our money and liberal ideals then crashes and burns or GM becomes a sink hole for our money and liberal ideals then the entire industry is forced to follow suite.
gwelf on April 28, 2009 at 10:16 AM
BTW, GM’s market cap is currently $1.2 billion. With that in mind, review the numbers. Debt holders will turn in their $27 billion in bonds for 10% of $1.2 billion, UAW will get 39% of $1.2 billion and a payment of $10 billion. We taxpayers put in $27 billion, and get 51% of $1.2 billion. Lastly, shareholders who planned to retire on dividends from their investment will get 1% of $1.2 billion. The only people smiling here belong to the UAW.
Vashta.Nerada on April 28, 2009 at 10:16 AM
BUY FORD. Do you think the government will put Ford out of business?
bloggless on April 28, 2009 at 10:16 AM
Well….people are not making tracks to buy green cars now, why on earth would anyone buy any GM vehicle if this comes to pass? Even if the govt. owns a controlling stake in the company, if no one is buying the vehicles they are not making money. Why does the Obama administration WANT to own it?
Puddleglum on April 28, 2009 at 10:17 AM
you want me to shoot myself don’t you Ed… why else would you give me this kinda post so early…
I’m living in the U.S.S.A
Kaptain Amerika on April 28, 2009 at 10:18 AM
I will not buy GM. Ford is looking better every day. Is it any wonder that Ford is having better than projected revenues? Actual profits are on the way.
Obama wouldn’t know the effect of incentive on the free market if a hard cover copy of “The Wealth of Nations” fell on his head and Adam Smith appeared to him in a dream.
pugwriter on April 28, 2009 at 10:18 AM
Obama is the new Chavez. The Republicans won’t vote on the new Health Care nationalization bill at all.
Just like the opposition parties refused to vote when Chavez changed the Venezuelan constitution.
Vive la Revolution.
Skywise on April 28, 2009 at 10:19 AM
It’s unpatriotic for Ford to make more of a profit than Government Motors.
There ought to be a law…
Skywise on April 28, 2009 at 10:20 AM
in good hands.
sesquipedalian on April 28, 2009 at 10:20 AM
My guess?
Bond holders will swallow… this deal.
Why? They are all banks, and Geithner will make them an offer they cannot refuse.
You know… Stress “Tests?”
Romeo13 on April 28, 2009 at 10:20 AM
HA! Rush called it weeks and weeks ago. UAW OWNS GM.
marklmail on April 28, 2009 at 10:21 AM
So now the UAW is going to become the capitalist exploiter of their own members? I think this is called syndicalism.
hicsuget on April 28, 2009 at 10:21 AM
He has already tried – twice.
Vashta.Nerada on April 28, 2009 at 10:21 AM
Wow. Hey, I’m sure that between the UAW and the government, they can turn GM around.
/sarc
Seriously, the folks working there will have some nice compensation packages, and they’ll be the only ones in America driving new GM products. At least until the doors close for good – which will be what, October?
hawksruleva on April 28, 2009 at 10:22 AM
If the RNC doesn’t immediately take this and run with it all over the country, blaring it from the rooftops, they should all be shot.
This was the whole idea in the first place, after all. The poor stupid taxpayers were going to buy GM and Chrysler as a gift to the UAW so the Dimocrats would then get kickbacks and $$$$$$$$ in return. The taxpayers, then, would just get shafted.
One question remains: with the termination and exodus of the engineers and white collar workers at GM, who is going to design cars at GM? The idiot union bastards?
TexasJew on April 28, 2009 at 10:23 AM
I’ve made 60k on ford stock in the last 4 weeks. well in my stock simulator… too bad I’m to broke to have done it for real.
Kaptain Amerika on April 28, 2009 at 10:23 AM
Cool. Can’t wait to see the new GM version of the LADA…
DamnYankee on April 28, 2009 at 10:23 AM
got my to’s messed up there, sorry.
Kaptain Amerika on April 28, 2009 at 10:24 AM
How is this not completely criminal?
Just a dumb canuck who wants to know.
gh on April 28, 2009 at 10:24 AM
Exactly right mark… Rush knows these people so well. It’s no wonder why Liberals hate Rush so much, as Rush educates approximately 22 million people about Liberalism daily.
Nice work Ed!
Keemo on April 28, 2009 at 10:25 AM
What are the chances, the Statist make it tough for other companies to compete?
Kjeil on April 28, 2009 at 10:25 AM
I will never buy a GM product again! This was Prompterbama’s plan all along. Give GM to the workers. The UAW’s legacy payments and you know the UAW needs to overseed their Golf Course. This stinks and investors if I were you I would start investing in companies that lists on the Iraqi Stock Exchange.
I wonder if GE employees could take over GE and drop Cheesemelt as CEO?
Atlanta Media Guy on April 28, 2009 at 10:25 AM
That is a very interesting question. There has to be something else being planned, long-term.
OldEnglish on April 28, 2009 at 10:25 AM
And the union thugs will torch every non-union car they can find on the street.
Skandia Recluse on April 28, 2009 at 10:26 AM
Cars which no one will buy. We’re about to have a nationally subsidized, government run auto manufacturer.
BadgerHawk on April 28, 2009 at 10:26 AM
If something like that goes thru it will be a never ending bailout (like Amtrak). It will be written into the general budget every year the amount of money the tax payers will have to “invest” in their company to keep it going.
SkyWatch on April 28, 2009 at 10:26 AM
Furthermore, aren’t the employees at Ford, members of UAW? Wouldn’t it be a good idea to affiliate with some other union?
gh on April 28, 2009 at 10:27 AM
He’d be Orren Boyle, the lazy steel company exec. Other candidates would be Cuffy Meigs, or maybe Claude Slagenhop.
hawksruleva on April 28, 2009 at 10:27 AM
Senior citizens, the primary bond holders whether they know it or not, have just been robbed.
Thank the AARP for mobilizing that pro-Obama vote, seniors!!
Suckers.
jeff_from_mpls on April 28, 2009 at 10:27 AM
We gonna make you an offah you no canna refuse.
jgapinoy on April 28, 2009 at 10:28 AM
GM is the new Amtrak
Vashta.Nerada on April 28, 2009 at 10:28 AM
Bingo! Sh$tbox “smart cars”….
Tim Zank on April 28, 2009 at 10:29 AM
Gubbermint Motors in the hands of the UAW. Precious. Absolutely precious. So when does the new Zil roll out?
daesleeper on April 28, 2009 at 10:29 AM
Market capitalization is the valuation of the firm as a going concern. As a firm approaches bankruptcy, its market cap is a reflection of what the shareholders would get out of a bankruptcy, not of what the company is actually worth.
hicsuget on April 28, 2009 at 10:30 AM
My last Chevy went over 350,000 miles. Loved the truck.
Just bought a Ford two weeks ago. I’m not enabling this junkie.
cntrlfrk on April 28, 2009 at 10:30 AM
I have a brilliant idea.
They ought to make a car for the people. A “people’s car” but they should give it an exotic foreign-sounding name.
What oh what should that be?
Facists.
jeff_from_mpls on April 28, 2009 at 10:30 AM
stinky backroom deal…
bond holders will ‘take this on the chin’ in a very public show if unhappiness.
… meanwhile … turbo tim will run the presses for a few extra hours and find a reason to infuse an offsetting amount of capital back to these banks.
it’s a win for obama – he now owns the car industry in america. he’s also now set a precedent where private bondholders have fallen in line (even though it is all smoke and mirrors) and its a win because the stupid media will run with the meme that obama single-handedly brought back the car industry from the ashes.
Obama has shattered the definition of ‘over reach’ in just the first 100 days. The next 3 1/2 years are sure to be just as action packed.
You wanted change you bunch of idiots – well you’ve got change.
gatorboy on April 28, 2009 at 10:30 AM
Chances are good. GM will be able to offer incentives using Uncle Sam’s dime. They’ll offer car loans to people that can’t afford them…
And there’s also a good chance that they’ll tell us we can’t drive our existing cars, mandating that we “upgrade” to a new crappy car.
hawksruleva on April 28, 2009 at 10:31 AM
Well in MY simulation I made one meeeelllioon dollars! :)
Skywise on April 28, 2009 at 10:31 AM
And GM CEO Barry Obooba will sell his little 60 MPH deathtrap weenie cars so cheaply (at a subsidized loss) that Ford and Chrysler will go outa business, leaving us all driving what amount to Yugos (Husseinos?).
Akzed on April 28, 2009 at 10:33 AM
What’s your favorite Eastern Bloc car? The Soviet Zaporzhets, maybe? The Trabant?
hawksruleva on April 28, 2009 at 10:33 AM
Ifthe UAW is forced to hold its stake, rather than selling it off, this might be a good thing. But if they can once again divorce themselves even partially from the financial health of their employer, GM is a corpse.
Having a seat on the board creates interesting conflicts of interest when it comes to labor negotiations, though.
njcommuter on April 28, 2009 at 10:33 AM
It’s all very logical to the liberals. The UAW is filled with working class dolts who supported Teleprompter Jesus. The bondholders are fat cats who supported someone else.
Payback is a bitch.
Only problem is, we’re all paying.
shibumi on April 28, 2009 at 10:35 AM
If GM truly becomes Government Motors, it will perish. 30% of the consuming people, like many on this site, will refuse to buy cars from GM.
WashJeff on April 28, 2009 at 10:15 AM
Where will you buy them?
Ford? Sorry, they were forced out of business after being bankrupted by unmeetable carbon-emission guidelines, union work rules and government mandates that you didn’t even know existed.
Same for Toyota, Mazda, Honda, Subaru, Hyundai, etc.
This won’t stop with car companies either.
Bishop on April 28, 2009 at 10:35 AM
Legalized Theft
jp on April 28, 2009 at 10:35 AM
Yes, but they are being offered equity in return for debt. They would get much more by letting the firm liquidate.
Vashta.Nerada on April 28, 2009 at 10:35 AM
Celebrate
One point you all miss is the UAW. Every time the UAW goes on strike, they are striking themselves. It comes out of their pockets. If they elect to go from 73 dolllars an hour to 84 and tack on another weak vacation, they go broke and shaft the retired workers/claimants.
One thing Unions do not understand is that driving up labor costs hurt themselves. Yes GM is the new amtrak. The rail Unions hurt the hopes of passenger rail many decades ago and it will never return.
seven on April 28, 2009 at 10:35 AM
Damnit! Has anyone seen my horse’s head? It was on the horse yesterday and today nothing. Reward offered for it’s safe return.
Limerick on April 28, 2009 at 10:36 AM
so much for ever buying an Escalade
jp on April 28, 2009 at 10:37 AM
Isn’t this all about avoiding the possibility that the bankruptcy court will treat the claimants—secured creditors, bondholders, and the UAW—fairly, that is, according to the law? Isn’t that why we have courts, so that the minority (the bondholders) won’t be subject to the majority? I’m willing to take my chances with a bankruptcy judge, since it’s clear that the politicians don’t have any interest in fairness to the bondholders. If we find out, though, that the Obama administration can dictate to a federal judge, we’ll understand how desperate our situation really is.
foredeck on April 28, 2009 at 10:37 AM
did you type that with a straight face?
they’re already doing this… did you hear of the equity guarantee where they’ll honor the full purchase price of your vehicle on a trade in? Oh, and what about if you lose your job, they’ll jump in and make your payments for you for 9 months or something like that… Just a couple of dumb@ss ‘insurance’ products rolled out by YOUR own GM. Oh, and what about deducting your car interest?
This is disgusting.
I’d be ashamed of myself if I was working at GM.
gatorboy on April 28, 2009 at 10:37 AM
Hmmmm… question…
Stockholder revolt?
Board does have a legal obligation to do what best… and this will give away 90% of the company.
Seems the stockholders should have some say in this.
Romeo13 on April 28, 2009 at 10:38 AM
And if anyone wants to keep their older car running for a few more years, I’m in Minnesota; come and see me. I’m willing to work for cash, barter, trade goods, whatever.
Bishop on April 28, 2009 at 10:38 AM
We already refuse to buy from GM, even though we own a few shares of its now worthless stock. Our last five purchases were Ford, Ford, Subaru, Toyota, Honda.
Attila (Pillage Idiot) on April 28, 2009 at 10:39 AM
UAW will own 39% of GM, but they’ll own 55% of Chrysler if this new deal goes through. That leaves Ford out. I’m sure this administration will find some way of getting rid of the foreign competition as a favor to the UAW.
moonsbreath on April 28, 2009 at 10:39 AM
Is not the purpose of the UAW to protect the worker from management abuses?
How Can they do that when they will effectively become management?
mechkiller_k on April 28, 2009 at 10:40 AM
Thank you George Bush.
True_King on April 28, 2009 at 10:40 AM
No. GM is the new Yugo.
gwelf on April 28, 2009 at 10:40 AM
I have driven GM cars and trucks my entire life as did my father and grandfather. I shudder to think that my next vehicle will be a Ford but I will never buy another Goverment Motors vehicle.
el rey on April 28, 2009 at 10:40 AM
How is Obama’s illegal nationalization of the economy Bush’ fault?
Skywise on April 28, 2009 at 10:41 AM
Bush did start us along this road. Bush said we needed to kill capitalism in order to save it and Obama is completing the first part.
gwelf on April 28, 2009 at 10:42 AM
But they definitely aren’t socialists. Definitely not.
lorien1973 on April 28, 2009 at 10:42 AM
I’ve been leasing Pontiacs since the 80′s. My current lease is up in 6 months. No more GM for me. Hello Ford!
ernie on April 28, 2009 at 10:44 AM
Do not buy a GM car.
ctmom on April 28, 2009 at 10:44 AM
so when does the first KdF Wagen roll out
Joe Caps on April 28, 2009 at 10:45 AM
As an answer to one of the posts above. If union thugs try to torch my car (a Ford) I will shoot them individually in the head. Each, one at a time until they are all gone. I am tired of this BS. It is time for torches and pitchforks. This tyrant want to be must be removed from office before he does irrepairable damage.
Zelsdorf Ragshaft on April 28, 2009 at 10:45 AM
A communist takeover. Maybe they could build Yugos.
Griz on April 28, 2009 at 10:45 AM
Ok, Where are the stinkin Conservatives in DC… oh wait, there aren’t any.
stenwin77 on April 28, 2009 at 10:45 AM
My suggestion for a US “People’s Car” is the Voltswagen.
eforhan on April 28, 2009 at 10:46 AM
Nope, we can’t call him/them that.
stenwin77 on April 28, 2009 at 10:46 AM
I don’t think we’re allowed to call them socialists until they actually get around to nullifying the first amendment and buy all industries and not ‘merely’ enforce political correctness, hate speech, regulate every industry and control portions of some of the largest industry (banking, insurance, auto). We cannot call them socialists until it’s too late…
Or alternatively, as Jon Stewart is wont to do lately, re-branding socialism as a good thing – ‘Oh, no, we’re becoming just like Sweden!’.
gwelf on April 28, 2009 at 10:47 AM
Does anyone at the Treasury do math any longer?
Good Lt on April 28, 2009 at 10:47 AM
car companies, banks, health care…really they own YOU…
right4life on April 28, 2009 at 10:47 AM
What will the marketing strategy be. Be patriotic, buy a Chevrolet? I hope no one buys a US/GM car. Let that public/private partnership die. We don’t need it.
Paul-Cincy on April 28, 2009 at 10:47 AM
Whoops! Had that exactly backwards LOL.
Obama’s Treasury Secretary is a tax dodger. So apparently the CHANGE WE CAN BELIEVE IN was code for an all-out assault on basic statistics, math, arithmetic and financial responsibility.
Teaching math (and particularly budget-related math) to Democrats is like teaching physics to a pig – it’s pointless because it just wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Good Lt on April 28, 2009 at 10:48 AM
It’s even worse than you thought, Ed. The Treasury would not officially be giving up their entire $27 billion loan; IBD had it as a $10 billion-for-50% swap.
I ran some math back at my place, and it is quite ugly. Assuming the $10 billion-for-39% the UAW holds as a $1-for-$1 swap, the new company would have a “market capitalization” of just under $25.65 billion (compared to a current market cap of $1.25 billion). Running with the higher number…
- The $10 billion Treasury infusion for 50% of GM would turn into $12.82 billion.
- The $27 billion the bondholders would forego for 10% of GM would turn into $2.56 billion (or less than 10% of what they’re owed).
- The $1.25 billion shareholders have would turn into $256 million (or just over 20% of the current worth).
steveegg on April 28, 2009 at 10:49 AM
You can have any color you want, as long as its black.
As for quality control, would you buy a car assembled by a government clerk who knows they will get a raise this year regardless of the quality of their work?
The People’s Car will be a clunking monstrosity, and guys like me will become rich keeping them in running condition.
Bishop on April 28, 2009 at 10:49 AM
The poorly written tripe that makes it to print lately is sadly becoming more prevalent. I can see how a mistake can slip through now and then, but it seems that too many allegedly professional writers in supposedly professionally edited publications are satisfied to substitute spellcheck for proofreading.
As for the unsurprising GM three-card Monte, Hugo Chavez would be proud.
hillbillyjim on April 28, 2009 at 10:49 AM
Just ask Lewis at Bank of America what it’s like being a government owned company and what if feels like to be shafted by the Feds.
The stockholders there have, imo, a huge RICO case against Paulson and Bernake. Lets hope the suits get filed.
riverrat10k on April 28, 2009 at 10:49 AM
Bring in the lawyers. Wow. We all hate lawyers until we need them. I just don’t know what else to say about this… this is ridiculous.
Karmashock on April 28, 2009 at 10:49 AM
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