Breaking: Specter becoming a Democrat; Update: Won’t change on Card Check; Update: Obama “thrilled”; Update: Specter disavowed switch last month; Update: Olympia Snowe defends Specter; Update: GOP leaders stunned; Update: Graham hits Toomey
posted at 12:23 pm on April 28, 2009 by Allahpundit
Or rather, he’s finally making it official. Human Events broke the news, now WaPo confirms:
“I have decided to run for re-election in 2010 in the Democratic primary,” said Specter in a statement. “I am ready, willing and anxious to take on all comers and have my candidacy for re-election determined in a general election.”
He added: “Since my election in 1980, as part of the Reagan Big Tent, the Republican Party has moved far to the right. Last year, more than 200,000 Republicans in Pennsylvania changed their registration to become Democrats. I now find my political philosophy more in line with Democrats than Republicans.”
That’s a weaselly lie, and therefore a perfect note for him to depart on. He’d have happily run for re-election as a Republican if not for Toomey getting into the race and quickly jumping out to a 21-point lead. Specter tried to make it an open primary so that the left might rescue him but couldn’t, and Pennsylvania’s election laws prevented him from doing what Lieberman did to Lamont three years ago: In PA, if you compete in a primary and lose, you’re done. No independent candidacy. So his choice, essentially, was either to switch to an independent now and skip the primary or go the whole nine yards by becoming a Democrat, giving the left a presumptive filibuster-proof majority (once Franken is seated), and extracting whatever concessions he could from them in return, e.g. committee chairmanships, DNC fundraising, etc. The Hill actually kinda sorta predicted this last month. It’s pure self-preservation on Specter’s part, expecting that he’ll be able to handle Toomey easily in the general when Democrats and indies can push him through.
Three quick thoughts. One: Does this mean he’s going to reverse himself on Card Check? I’m guessing yes. Two: Does this mean the Democrats will drop their threat to nuke the filibuster on health care? Hard to say since Blue Dogs like Ben Nelson could defect and deprive them of the 60th vote. Third: Will a lefty challenger jump into the Democratic primary now and challenge Specter as, irony of ironies, a DINO?
You know who I bet feels pretty stupid right now? John Cornyn.
Update: Ben Smith says Biden was “deeply involved” in the switch. Here’s Specter’s full statement. Interesting:
I deeply regret that I will be disappointing many friends and supporters. I can understand their disappointment. I am also disappointed that so many in the Party I have worked for for more than four decades do not want me to be their candidate. It is very painful on both sides. I thank specially Senators McConnell and Cornyn for their forbearance…
My change in party affiliation does not mean that I will be a party-line voter any more for the Democrats that I have been for the Republicans. Unlike Senator Jeffords’ switch which changed party control, I will not be an automatic 60th vote for cloture. For example, my position on Employees Free Choice (Card Check) will not change.
Update (Ed): I’m in the good-riddance category here. Normally I argue for a big tent and the need to woo moderates by focusing on core values. Specter betrayed those values in his Porkulus vote and cloture cave. He could have forced Obama, Pelosi, and Reid to start negotiating in good faith with his Republican colleagues, but instead allowed them to shove a bad bill down their throats.
Update: You’ll be pleased to know that Snarlin’ Arlen has The One’s “full support.” Meanwhile, here’s just how much of a weaselly liar he is. From a March 17 interview with The Hill:
I am staying a Republican because I think I have an important role, a more important role, to play there. The United States very desperately needs a two-party system. That’s the basis of politics in America. I’m afraid we are becoming a one-party system, with Republicans becoming just a regional party with so little representation of the northeast or in the middle atlantic. I think as a governmental matter, it is very important to have a check and balance. That’s a very important principle in the operation of our government. In the constitution on Separation of powers.
Update: Michael Steele lays it on the line:
Some in the Republican Party are happy about this. I am not. Let’s be honest-Senator Specter didn’t leave the GOP based on principles of any kind. He left to further his personal political interests because he knew that he was going to lose a Republican primary due to his left-wing voting record. Republicans look forward to beating Sen. Specter in 2010, assuming the Democrats don’t do it first.
Update: Politico says Specter was talking to the Dems about this for months and that the final straw was indeed the polls showing him getting crushed by Toomey. Question: Are any other Republicans thinking of switching? Hmmmm:
Sen. Olympia Snowe (R-Maine) a fellow moderate, didn’t seem suprised. On the national level, she says, “you haven’t certainly heard warm encouraging words of how they [Republicans] view moderates. Either you are with us or against us.”
“Ultimately we’re heading to having the smallest political tent in history they way things are unfolding,” Snowe said. “We should have learned from the 2006 election, which I was a party of. I happened to win with 74% of the vote in a blue collar state but no one asked me how did you do it. Seems to me that would have been the first question that would have come from the Republican party to find out so we could avoid further losses.”
Update: The most discouraging thing about all this may be that the GOP leadership appears to have been caught totally by surprise, even though (a) per Politico, Specter’s been talking to the Dems for months, and (b) per Toomey’s polling, we’ve been speculating about a Specter switch for weeks now. How could they have been caught flat-footed on this?
Update: Grahamnesty wants in on some of Snowe’s “viva moderates!” action.
“I don’t want to be a member of the Club for Growth,” said Graham. “I want to be a member of a vibrant national Republican party that can attract people from all corners of the country — and we can govern the country from a center-right perspective.”
“As Republicans, we got a problem,” he said.
Counters Jim DeMint, whose impending endorsement of Toomey might have pushed Specter over the edge, “I would rather have 30 Republicans in the Senate who really believe in principles of limited government, free markets, free people, than to have 60 that don’t have a set of beliefs.”
Blowback
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Jenfidel
Back in those days women and mothers could not vote.
Back in those days there were no airports, no interstate highways etc.
You know I grew up in Oklahoma. Back in the late 19th century they had the land runs. The biggest government give away in history. Stake a claim, and it was yours.
In fact Lincoln supported the Homestead Act, which gave away more land to more people than any government program in history.
Yes, times were different.
Terrye on April 28, 2009 at 4:09 PM
everyone who owns property pays property taxes, the fact of the matter is that school taxes have a MUCH better standing for the argument “investing in the future” than getting auntie Gertrude a new liver for the third time at age 74.
The costs have gotten driven so high that one or the other will have to give.
sven10077 on April 28, 2009 at 4:09 PM
I did not care for Arlen Specter’s positions on many issues, but this is an enormous loss for the GOP. Even if he could only contribute on razor-thin vote margins, the GOP needed his vote.
Although Rahm Immanuel has an awful reputation based upon his unethical conduct, he did get a lot of moderate-to-conservative to run as candidates for the Democratic Party. Although I would prefer the Republican Party to be thoroughly conservative from-stem-to-stern, this does not comport with the reality that many constituents are much more mixed in their political ideology, and will prefer candidates who represent their ideas as well.
National Review had an interesting profile on House Republican Peter King, (The Survivor
Rep. Peter King points the way for Republicans in the Northeast by Mark Hemingway), and how he may serve as a model for how the GOP can win in the Northeast, while still maintaining their conservative bona fides.
sDs61678 on April 28, 2009 at 4:10 PM
Buddhapundit:
Graham has not been a supporter of the Obama spending bills.
Terrye on April 28, 2009 at 4:10 PM
Sen. Olympia Snowe (R-Maine) a fellow moderate, didn’t seem suprised. On the national level, she says, “you haven’t certainly heard warm encouraging words of how they [Republicans] view moderates. Either you are with us or against us.”
Isn’t that the mantra of the Democrats? Either you believe the way we do, or you’re a tea baggin red neck racist.
capejasmine on April 28, 2009 at 4:10 PM
Uncle Sugar is the biggest landowner in the nation and governments have gamed Eminent Domain to the point where if I can show I’d pay a dollar more in property tax than you I can have the townhall hijack your land….
if the name of the game were “helping the poor not be so poor” we’d kick the granola munchers in the nuts and have a resource rush…
the game is really “control”.
sven10077 on April 28, 2009 at 4:11 PM
Oh Gawd, on Hannity right now, he’s playing a clip of someone fainting at the speech to the FBI today, by Obama.
Obama says…this happened all the time during the campaign. I wonder how much the dolt got paid, to take that dive! Sheesh!
capejasmine on April 28, 2009 at 4:12 PM
sven:
See what I mean? When it matters to you, the taxes are justified. I am not complaining about the taxes, even though they have become quite outrageous. I am just saying that when it comes to something that matters to people, they assume that it is a good thing. Hence educating other people’s children is a good way for me to spend my money.
But helping an old lady buy her blood pressure medicine is not apparently.
Terrye on April 28, 2009 at 4:12 PM
We don’t have any leaders so who exactly is stunned?
crabtree on April 28, 2009 at 4:13 PM
You’re missing the big picture. One of the primary reasons that health care is so expensive is government involvement. The free market would moderate prices, insure availability, etc. The reason people are “in the system” is that we have nno choice… but that does not exonerate the system (any more than 100% of Czechs being the ‘government system’ when they revolted against it somehow exonerated Communist Czechoslovakia).
The system will eventually implode.
mankai on April 28, 2009 at 4:14 PM
What’s your point?
Lincoln is cited as one of the biggest arguments for Federalism that there is.
Why was the land considered “federal” such that Lincoln could give it away?
People back then were self-sufficient and did not look to government to solve all their problems, no matter how bad and the country did very well and people were happy and proud at what they could achieve.
Now, some people beg for the feds to do everything but wipe their bums (and that’s coming, no doubt!)
As for women voting, I’m not sure how well that turned out, considering that’s it’s probably (Liberal) white women who gave Ogabe his victory last year.
Too many women vote with their feelings and not their reason and this is almost always a vote for a DemocRat bleeding heart Liberal.
BTW, I resent being childless and paying thousands of dollars in property taxes for bad schools I don’t use!
Jenfidel on April 28, 2009 at 4:14 PM
sven:
I know how much land the government has, you are missing point. They gave millions of acres of ground away to people. I am not saying they should not have done it, but let’s just say that the people who got the land, got it from the government.
Terrye on April 28, 2009 at 4:14 PM
People have a responsibility to provide their own way where I come from or get aid from their kin.
Way back before they became donk indoctrination labs schools were totally focused on providing the manpower to fuel the economic engine we became….
what precise residual economic benefit does Aunt Gerty getting a new new hip at age 80 provide again?
sven10077 on April 28, 2009 at 4:15 PM
Doctor Zero on April 28, 2009 at 2:22 PM
The Doctor is in. My sentiments exactly.
riverrat10k on April 28, 2009 at 4:16 PM
So… he votes by party affiliation and not by principle?
His positions will now change because he’s a Democrat? He’s a bigger coward and a$$ than I thought.
mankai on April 28, 2009 at 4:16 PM
Isn’t that the mantra of the Democrats? Either you believe the way we do, or you’re a tea baggin red neck racist.
No, Olympia was referring to the Republican party, although it is true that Republicans have a tight grip only in stats that most Americans would describe as ‘redneck’.
bayam on April 28, 2009 at 4:17 PM
Jenfidel:
I am sorry, but the idea that the United States is going to go back in time to 1800 is ridiculous. It is never going to happen.
You have to keep things in the context of their times and what is more you have to remember that it requires some consent of the governed for this government to operate. The governed do not want to go back to a time when they used to round up the orphans and send them to work in the mines.
Terrye on April 28, 2009 at 4:17 PM
Yep, and people who refuse to answer the math on this will share the blame for it. Good intentions aren’t worth a damn if you can’t fund them. Then you have to take what isn’t yours, justify it with your good intentions, and the whole thing collapses.
Terrye, once again: how’s that Social Security looking for you? Show me that government-managed anything is efficient and realistic. Do that, and I’ll consider your good intentions.
beatcanvas on April 28, 2009 at 4:17 PM
You suppose that in a free market, a company would create a blood pressure medicine… with the hopes that nobody would be able to buy it?
mankai on April 28, 2009 at 4:17 PM
Why is it that the east coast has produced most of this Nation’s TRAITORS????????????
Col.John Wm. Reed on April 28, 2009 at 2:34 PM
‘Cause that’s where D.C. is.
riverrat10k on April 28, 2009 at 4:19 PM
You know who really benefits from this?
Mitt Romney.
JohnJ on April 28, 2009 at 4:20 PM
sven:
What benefit? Well her daughter can use the money she would use to buy her mom’s meds and instead spend it on books for her kids.
I mean really, do you think all these old folks live in some other country and are in no way related to the rest of us?
Could you spare $30 or $40 grand a year for someone else’s care without taking that money away from something or someone else?
Terrye on April 28, 2009 at 4:21 PM
That’s it, though my brain read “balls”, Snowe is the female Specter.
maverick muse on April 28, 2009 at 4:21 PM
I’m dying to hear Megan McCain’s response.
benny shakar on April 28, 2009 at 4:22 PM
As for women voting, I’m not sure how well that turned out, considering that’s it’s probably (Liberal) white women who gave Ogabe his victory last year.
Too many women vote with their feelings and not their reason and this is almost always a vote for a DemocRat bleeding heart Liberal.
BTW, I resent being childless and paying thousands of dollars in property taxes for bad schools I don’t use!
Jenfidel on April 28, 2009 at 4:14 PM
Hey, I am hoping you were home-schooled or went to private school. If not, you are paying now for your ability to read. Also, about women voting with their bleeding hearts? I am as conservative as they come.
TXMomof3 on April 28, 2009 at 4:23 PM
mankai:
I work in this field. I have seen people living on $900 a month and trying to find a way to buy $300 in meds. I have one client who is a quad and his meds run $600 a month.
Terrye on April 28, 2009 at 4:23 PM
And it has nothing to do with a bleeding heart either.
Terrye on April 28, 2009 at 4:24 PM
These RINOs need to be asked today who they will support in the Pennsylvania Senate race. Watch them squirm. If they pick the conservative over the moderate, then how can they talk about the necessity of moderates? If they pick the “moderate” Democrat over the Republican…
Buddahpundit on April 28, 2009 at 4:26 PM
good point
maverick muse on April 28, 2009 at 4:26 PM
Finally! Now the Dems own everything. This is theirs to sink or swim. No more Barry being able to blame Republicans for being obstructionists, or not “getting on board”. Republicans no longer have to get on board. Everything is now totally and completely owned by the Dems. So, WHEN they screw it up, they will have no one to blame but themselves. And the electorate will be watching. They may not pay attention now, but the do pay attention when things fail. Which will be a great day!
Fed45 on April 28, 2009 at 4:26 PM
OK, you lost me, too.
I was almost out on your discussion with the old ladies dying in the street, but rounding up the orphans for the mines really tears it!
You must live in Bolivia, because I’ve never heard such wild tales!
I used to think your posts were sensible, but I now have serious doubts.
Jenfidel on April 28, 2009 at 4:27 PM
Open letter to Democrats.
Please oh please please take Lindsay Graham off our hands.
We won’t demand anything in return and may throw in a little cash on top of it.
kangjie on April 28, 2009 at 4:27 PM
mankai:
No, one of the reasons that health care is so high is that it is so much better than it used to be.
Terrye on April 28, 2009 at 4:27 PM
Uh, what part of the judicial branch deciding who lives or dies leads you to nationalized healthcare?
Branch Rickey on April 28, 2009 at 4:27 PM
No doubt you love Obama, then. He wants to provide the programs that will extend these folks’ lives.
Me, I love my kids. It’s not their job to take care of life extensions for everyone. I resent that you want to make them do that against their will.
beatcanvas on April 28, 2009 at 4:27 PM
I’m sorry but when I see commercials with geezers acting like they are in their 50s when they are in their 70s it enrages me….work a job where you get “whatever free medical care you want forever” and reap the benefits, that said I am not that old and I somehow can recall that not every senior citizen felt they should be able to bungee jump or go to the grand canyon and hike….
my generation will get to work until they are 82 years old before even being able to think about “social security” believe it.
sven10077 on April 28, 2009 at 4:28 PM
I’m dying to hear Megan McCain’s response.
benny shakar on April 28, 2009 at 4:22 PM
You wouldn’t be able to understand even her dummified speech patterns.
Bishop on April 28, 2009 at 4:28 PM
From the mouth of a progressive, “moderate” sucks.
Just another pirated word.
maverick muse on April 28, 2009 at 4:29 PM
If Senator Toomey loses to Senator Specter, then what have the Republicans gained? They give President Obama a filibuster-proof block in the Senate, and Republicans lose a vote that could unpredictably go their way.
It is ludicrous to think that someone as conservative as Senator Jim DeMint or Senator John Cornyn would carry Pennsylvania, even though I would prefer it.
To want 100% ideological conservative purity in the G.O.P. may be nice, but reality will not allow it. That is why each party is made up of coalitions.
sDs61678 on April 28, 2009 at 4:29 PM
I went to private schools, even though my parents were paying taxes for public schools then, too.
I’m not paying for my ability to read, nor am I paying for the students’ ability to read, as it seems most of them can’t when they graduate from our public schools.
As for women voting, I’m as Conservative as they come,too, but plenty of our sisters are not and they voted for NObama (“because he cares more”) and not for the alpha male McCain and his female running mate.
Jenfidel on April 28, 2009 at 4:30 PM
Money flees Socialism. “Working Class Hero” John Lennon came to the US to flee socialism… Michael Caine just announced that he is thinking of doing the same (following the lead of many Eurpoean “committed socialists”)… when it gets bad in the US, the money will flee here also.
mankai on April 28, 2009 at 4:31 PM
I don’t know what this means. There’s no such thing as a free lunch. It’s a zero sum game. The money has to come from somewhere. Even if the govt just goes out and prints it, someone eventualy has to pay for it. So, the question still is: why should I have to pay for YOUR healthcare? Show me where the Fed govt has the Constitutional authority to collect taxes for that purpose. (and NO, it is NOT the General Welfare clause)
Fed45 on April 28, 2009 at 4:31 PM
Whatevs. I have $3400 a month in medical expenses; when not disabled due to multiple surgeries a year {but DO NOT GO ON DISABILITY} work at least 2 jobs and save my money. My debt is astronomical and the 1st of the month is no friend and a pretty scary prospect most of the time. But I make good on my expenses and live very, very frugally and would not want some bureaucrat making my health decisions. What a nation of whiners.
Branch Rickey on April 28, 2009 at 4:31 PM
…stop the rationalizations!
maverick muse on April 28, 2009 at 4:31 PM
It is more than a little curious how journalists and so-called journalist always ask questions wondering why conservatives don’t simply become more liberal, but do not demand responses of liberals, why they don’t become more conservative.
sDs61678 on April 28, 2009 at 4:32 PM
Fed45 on April 28, 2009 at 4:31 PM
+1
THAT is life.
maverick muse on April 28, 2009 at 4:32 PM
I take comfort in knowing Specter is the Democrats’ problem now.
And that no matter what, the Democrats will probably NEVER have anything like the number of them that jumped ship following the 1994 elections. It was a wipe-out for them.
ToddonCapeCod on April 28, 2009 at 4:33 PM
Jenfidel on April 28, 2009 at 4:30 PM
I call a truce.
TXMomof3 on April 28, 2009 at 4:33 PM
I support moderates. I’m fine with Roger Simons in CT running for the Senate or Mark Kirk in IL running for the Senate. But how exactly is spending $700 million on basically porkulus crap moderate exactly? If Arlen Specter was a moderate, he’d have driven a harder deal. Specter could have gotten the price down and had it be more reliant on tax cuts (how about a 5% rate for the lowest tier for a year) as well as made some of the Bush tax cuts permanent (which are sort of expiring next year – have fun at 15% as the lowest rate).
Illinidiva on April 28, 2009 at 4:33 PM
“moderate”
amen
maverick muse on April 28, 2009 at 4:33 PM
The problem I have with this thinking is it becomes a form of “forced charity.”
I’m not convinced that the government should fill the role of what I think should be a voluntary effort on the part of small community members.
To make this worse, the 2010 budget is going to lower the amount of deductions for charitable giving.
This isn’t the direction I’d like to see the country go, in terms of taking care of our neighbors out of charity.
Otis B on April 28, 2009 at 4:34 PM
The Democrats have 100% rat purity, not a Zell Miller among them anymore, and look where it’s taken them.
Buddahpundit on April 28, 2009 at 4:34 PM
Here’s a blast from the past – remember Spectre’s “Scottish Law” vote on Clinton’s impeachment?
Arlen, ya won’t be missed. If we can get another one like Casey in there to do Obama’s bidding and rub our gun-clinging noses in the dirt for a whole term (remember Wofford?), that just might be enough to turn things around in PA.
mozemoose on April 28, 2009 at 4:34 PM
That tells me nothing abou the costs. I work in higher ed. The reason higher ed is so expensive is government guarantees. I worked Admissions/Financial Aid for 10 years… we based EVERY financial package on government subsidies.
I ask again, do you believe that in a free market a company would create a medication so nobody could afford it?
mankai on April 28, 2009 at 4:35 PM
You got it! (Hate to fight with another feisty Conservative Texas lady!)
Jenfidel on April 28, 2009 at 4:35 PM
Who could forget it?!
I’ve called him McSpecter (“Hoot, man!”) ever since and he’s been a burr under the GOP saddle since then, as well.
I’m delighted he’s made it official that he’s really a DemocRat!
Jenfidel on April 28, 2009 at 4:37 PM
That’s why Reagan will never get elected.
mankai on April 28, 2009 at 4:38 PM
Stick a fork in him.
OneGyT on April 28, 2009 at 4:40 PM
I think conservatives need to have a political voice in a party. If the republican party isn’t going to be the party of conservatives, it should be allowed to die and a new party, “The Conservative Party” should be born.
Either way, the scumbag socialist liberals, the pussywhipped moderate liberals and RINOs are going to own this mess and the worsening of this mess because of their screwed up ideas of huge spending, huge government, and huge taxes.
The conservative that remain need to remain conservative in their values, however they need to let the abhorrent liberal idiots be just that. The liberals will destroy themselves, conservatives don’t need to try to help them, conservatives need to concentrate on adhering to their own principles. In that vein, traitorous creeps like Specter can jump off a bridge for all I care.
Does Specter REALLY think the dems won’t see him as an opportunistic hypocrite? His career is over, this switch won’t have helped him a bit.
Spiritk9 on April 28, 2009 at 4:40 PM
Why do I get the feeling that the bayams, bennyS, and even drywall are glad to see getaclue get the boot?
Rovin on April 28, 2009 at 4:40 PM
Jinfidel:
There is nothing wild about that claim. Back in those days there was no child welfare, no nothing.
The average life expectancy of a woman was only 38, and of a man about 45. My great granparents died in a typhus outbreak and the kids were left to fend for themselves. In the big cities it was not unusual to see orphaned and homeless children rounded up and put in work programs in mines and on farms.
That is what is like back then. That is not a wild claim, it is just the truth. Life could be very hard.
Terrye on April 28, 2009 at 4:41 PM
Specter is toxic, an evil little man who only looks out for and cares about himself.
The modern day Benedict Arnold, no question!
FireBlogger on April 28, 2009 at 4:43 PM
Good riddance.
Rollie on April 28, 2009 at 4:43 PM
mankai:
Yes, I think the drug companies would make drugs that many people could not afford, if there were enough people in their 50′s with health insurance and a job who would buy it.
There is such a thing as cost of production. No drug company is going to sell something for less than it costs them to make it.
Terrye on April 28, 2009 at 4:44 PM
Of course it won’t. He’s been blowin with the wind for a long time.
Good riddance.
The GOP was stupid for backing this RINO for as long as they have.
It doesn’t change things on the hill because we were already in the minority with him.
This may actually help us if he loses in 2010.
shick on April 28, 2009 at 4:46 PM
I’d like to know… by what right do you enable and promote the government to take more of my kids’ future income?
beatcanvas on April 28, 2009 at 4:46 PM
Don’t get me wrong; I’m sure there are plenty of people who feel that way about the Republican Party. But none of them post on conservative Web sites. Anyone here who says that he feels that way is obviously lying.
logis on April 28, 2009 at 2:54 PM
Dunno about that logis. I don’t post much here but read most of the posts. How ’bout this? Hey Eric Cantor! You’ve been in long enough and your TARP vote sucked. Please wave buh-bye. Don’t even get me started on Webb, another RINO who is now a Democrat. Used to work for Reagan. And Warner is just another POLITICIAN WHO WANTS JOB SECURITY, just like this asshole Sphincter.
There. I hate all the federal corruptocrats from my state. I have stated in my few previous posts that both sides are equally to blame and it is because these pricks are making a career out of Washington politics instead of looking at it as a service.
Repealing the Reapportionment Act of 1929 would make things very interesting. Restoring our House representation to the founders original 1:50,000 would, imo, do two very important things.
1) Would give us about 6000 congressmen. This should make it harder to pass new laws, and most new laws seem to do more harm than good. It would also force more coalition building. The legislation would have to be damned good to ever get passed.
2) Having this many seats open would be to the benefit of third, fourth, or fifth party candidates. Again, forcing coalitions to get anything done. IMO, this would temper the legislation toward the center.
riverrat10k on April 28, 2009 at 4:46 PM
Buddhapundit:
I don’t know, I live in Indiana and Bayh and Ellsworth have been making some unDemocratic noises lately.
Terrye on April 28, 2009 at 4:47 PM
Did she really? Why? I never thought she was that intolerable. In which thread?
shick on April 28, 2009 at 4:48 PM
As a student of history, I can think of very few examples of this.
Most children, before the 20th Century, grew up on farms and were “home schooled” or went to small rural schools.
Life was hard, but it was rich, too.
Is the urban life lived by minority kids in killer gangs today any better than forced labor, the worst case scenario you can think of?
In addition, drugs and crime are out of control in the cities.
Do these gangstas learn more at our tax-funded schools? Nope.
Plus, we have very few orphaned or homeless kids because they’ve all been aborted.
You either think the State should be the Nanny/Police State or you don’t.
I don’t.
Jenfidel on April 28, 2009 at 4:48 PM
shick on April 28, 2009 at 4:48 PM
Look for the Iranian Boat thread.
kingsjester on April 28, 2009 at 4:51 PM
beatcnavas:
What are you talking about? I am not enabling anything. I am simply pointing out that there are a lot of families in this country who use these programs and many of them would deny it, say they earned it etc. And the truth is if you do not have some kind of program out there for these older people then you are either going to have to abandon them or force people to utilize all their own resources to care for them. And that includes resources that those people might want to spend on their own kids.
Like I said I have been paying property taxes for years to pay for other people’s children’s educations. I don’t count on getting a refund.
Terrye on April 28, 2009 at 4:52 PM
Honestly, the hand-wringing in here is ridiculous. So Specter switched parties. So what? The old guy would have joined Satan’s Army if it gave him 6 more years at the government teat. This has nothing to do with the Republican Party going “too far right,” because it hasn’t been a far right coalition for years and years — unless you count being opposed to massive government debt spending far right, in which case you’ve got something north of 60% of the nation on your side.
The pendulum swings both ways. Always has. Always will. It’s the dem’s time right now, and with their majorities they’re going to make the best of it. They aren’t ramming all this spending through because they believe, as I saw James Carville said today, that they will be in the majority for the next 40 years. If they don’t believe that, why in the hell do any of you? People will grow weary of the spending, and the taxes that follow. The democrat party’s innate and insatiable appetite for corruption will get the best of them. I suppose some damage will be done to the nation in the interim, but this country has always had a moderating bent.
Don’t go wobbly, for God’s sake.
Rational Thought on April 28, 2009 at 4:52 PM
Very well said!
Thank you.
What Terrye refuses to see is that she is proposing the State do the work that private charities have done much better and cheaper than the Fed could ever hope to.
Jenfidel on April 28, 2009 at 4:52 PM
Welcome to permanent minority status. I hope all of the “pure conservative base” morons are happy with it.
rightwingprof on April 28, 2009 at 4:54 PM
Jenfidel
Oh God. They were called Jacks and Sallies and many of them were the children of immigrants who died after they came here.
And what if they were on farms?
My great grandparents died and the oldest daughter was forced to marry the hired hand and her younger brother was turned out.
Terrye on April 28, 2009 at 4:54 PM
Jenfidel on April 28, 2009 at 4:52 PM
Personally I think this way of thinking makes me both a social and fiscal conservative – the two are intertwined, from that perspective.
Otis B on April 28, 2009 at 4:55 PM
You misunderstand insurance. It is not a free-for-all. The insurance companies are HEAVILY regulated and they respond to the same market forces that are manipulated by government health guarantees. The insurance problem is merely the other side of the same coin.
Health insurance is expensive for the same reason that medications are expensive… government manipulation of the marketplace.
As with any product, a company will seek to recoup costs associated with its creation… but they will also seek to broaden the market. Costs will come down… especially after competition is introduced from competing companies with similar products.
And guess what?… there is no colossal bill handed to any future generation. The free market system guarantees its own survival and the continued production of wanted products at reasonable prices.
mankai on April 28, 2009 at 4:55 PM
I will.
shick on April 28, 2009 at 4:56 PM
What a effing loser. Weak, no character.
4shoes on April 28, 2009 at 4:57 PM
Casey only got in because his father was Governor, a pro-life Democrat. After he was elected, he forgot about being pro-life and just voted with the rest of the Democrats.
What Toomey needs to do is talk about how conservative principles can help those in the Philly burbs, the Susequehanna Valley, and the Pittsburgh burbs. He’ll have to talk about CLEAN COAL and why we can’t afford carbon taxes, and how unions are driving out jobs. Philly is deep blue, rural PA is deep red, it’s in the burbs and the Susquehanna Valley that PA is won or lost.
Steve Z on April 28, 2009 at 4:57 PM
What happened to him?
Otis B on April 28, 2009 at 4:57 PM
Jinfidel:
No, I am not proposing any such thing. I am simply pointing out an obvious reality that has existed in this country for a long time.
I said I think the programs need to be modified and reformed if they are to survive.
So far it seems that most of the people who disagree with me, say that if the old folks can not pay their own way then let them die.
Or force their families to pick up the tab.
Never mind if the tab is more than their entire income for a year.
And if I don’t feel comfortable with letting the old folks die off then supposedly I am stealing from the young.
Terrye on April 28, 2009 at 4:58 PM
I think Ronald Reagan was a once-in-a-lifetime talent, and as his two landslide elections show, the American People, agreed with his very conservative ideas being articulated.
In some ways, Republicans have become the victims of their own successes with lowering some taxes, and have become victims of their irresponsible spending under President Bush for eight years.
Many people talk a good game when it comes to smaller government, but do not follow through on it, once in office. Once entitlements and social programs are implemented and used, it is very difficult (if not impossible) to scale them back. (ie. President Bush’s poor salesmanship of Social Security reform)
Many Americans do not want to be responsible for their own retirement/healthcare, and although I would like that responsibility/freedom, it is difficult to sell responsibility to people when they do not want it.
I would love to see a conservative Republican get into office and eliminate duplicate programs, pass laws that require name on earmarks (or eliminate them altogether), and eliminate unnecessary Executive Cabinets, but I just don’t see it happening.
sDs61678 on April 28, 2009 at 4:59 PM
Your family’s history is very sad, but it’s still no argument for imposing the tyranny of Federal “charity” on the rest of us.
BTW, my family–on both sides–had their sob stories, but they both managed to deal with the hand Life dealt them and for the most part, without aid or programs from Uncle Sugar.
Further, I resent paying taxes for these kinds of “charitable” entitlement programs now for people who’ve never really known real hardship and probably never will.
It’s not the Government’s job to be the ultimate Nanny/Parent and it’s certainly not my job to pay for them to do it, either.
But Precedent Ogabe and people like you want to force me to do just that.
Jenfidel on April 28, 2009 at 5:01 PM
Many Americans do not want to be responsible for their own retirement/healthcare, and although I would like that responsibility/freedom, it is difficult to sell responsibility to people when they do not want it.
sDs61678 on April 28, 2009 at 4:59 PM
I would love this also if the Federal Reserve would allow a market rate of interest
riverrat10k on April 28, 2009 at 5:02 PM
This is a stupid statement. He should have phrased it much more narrowly. The problem with Specter is that he supported the stimulus. The problem is that it’s not even clear where he will part company with Obama on economy. As such, he’s Specter is a Democrat on all issues. For you to be a conservative, you have to say where we can rely on you to vote conservative.
DeMint is taking a much more purist position, which is also unacceptable. He would rather have 30 purists? Well, I wouldn’t, and I’m paying his salary, not the other way around. I would like to have enough people to make a difference. If his plans are just to make speeches then I already have fairly good quality right-wing talk radio for that.
radiofreevillage on April 28, 2009 at 5:03 PM
Otis:
True story, family legend really.
He worked on farms, and was beaten and abused as often as not. Then as a young man he came into some money, no one knew how. But he went back to where that old farm was and there was a small town. So he built a stockade for cattle and bought and sold livestock.
He never married, never had children and when he died, he bought three plots, had them bury him in the middle and pour concrete around his grave.
He said he had spent his life alone, and he would by God spend eternity that way.
The sister who married the hired hand died not many years later and my Great Grandfather, the remaining child grew up on that place, the only one left out of the family that settled it.
Terrye on April 28, 2009 at 5:03 PM
He was made to work in a salt mine while Simon Legree debauched the gal he had his eye on….
sven10077 on April 28, 2009 at 5:04 PM
sDs61678:
How many people do you think had their life savings wiped out in the last year? I bet a lot of them thought they had their retirement taken care of, but now they don’t.
People need to work longer and save as much as they can, but I have seen costs that were just out the reach of most people. My mother required 24 hour care in the last years of her life. The surgery alone was $375,000 and that was in 1997 and then the care was more than $30,000 a year plus the meds. It was just insane.
Terrye on April 28, 2009 at 5:06 PM
LOL…you made me spit Dr. Pepper all over my monitor!
Jenfidel on April 28, 2009 at 5:07 PM
The 20 most liberal Democrat senators would happily switch to Republican and give Republicans a majority if we’d let them, but what would be the point?
Buddahpundit on April 28, 2009 at 5:07 PM
Bankrupting children to prolong inevitable death is morally reprehensible. And yes, in this thread, you’ve certainly argued for that.
If a family has a member who is dying, they do what they feasibly can. But no one would expect a child to take out a loan against future income to afford life-entending measures for a grandparent. But that’s what you’re advocating.
beatcanvas on April 28, 2009 at 5:07 PM
We have met the enemy, Lindsay, ad it’s you.
Geez, these guys are stupid.
drjohn on April 28, 2009 at 5:07 PM
sven:
Maybe you think that it was just unicorns and ragtime, if you do then that shows what you do not know about life in the 19th century.
Look at the reaction to this swine flu, back then there was no public health organizations. There were no vaccines or anything like that. The leading cause of death among women was child birth for heavens sakes. People did not live long enough to get cancer.
There was typhus, small pox, diptheria , cholera just to mention a few.
The people who settled this country were tough and strong and brave, they had to be.
Terrye on April 28, 2009 at 5:10 PM
Terrye on April 28, 2009 at 5:03 PM
Interesting story, Terrye.
Much of what you are speaking about, however, is in terms of legislation that governed those types of abuses, and not so much a social network that provided for those children and persons who were forced to work on those farms.
That sort of thing didn’t start until later, if I am understanding your timeline correctly.
To me it has always come back to the government replacing charitable giving in this country. I think we are far better served by the latter, though like you, I’m unsure if we can get to that place.
Along those lines, I see things like the budget allocation for the National Endowment of the Arts as a continuation of that sort of thinking – the budget for the National Endowment for the Arts pales in comparison to the figures for charitable donations to museums and etc.
I’ve always found that a bit odd.
Otis B on April 28, 2009 at 5:10 PM
DeMint is right.
Sticking by your principles when you know that they are correct is the only honorable thing to do. The Obamaites are still in the throes of their corrupt election victory, and the bill has not yet come in. Unemployment is rising and will be rising for another year, and Obama will own all these bailouts as well as the inflation that is coming as sure as the dawn. Principles and patience are the best things to have, and DeMint was absolutely correct.
TexasJew on April 28, 2009 at 5:11 PM
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