And the first G-8 bankruptcy will be …
posted at 1:33 pm on April 28, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
… Great Britain, or “England” for Barack Obama’s benefit. Before we Yanks start crowing about any alleged superiority, though, pay attention to what Asia Times describes as its indicators for collapse. Sound familiar?
The UK leads the pack in terms of other G-8 countries in many ways. It was among the first to have a failed bank, Northern Rock collapsing just a few weeks after Germany’s IKB Deutsche and Saschen LB in the late summer of 2007 (see Rocking the land of Poppins, Asia Times Online, September 22, 2007) and the first economy to go into an actual recession in this cycle. Its central bank was the first to directly support banks’ interbank borrowings, the country was the first to aggressively cut rates and, lastly, it was the first country to go in for quantitative easing (QE). …
In comparison, what is going on with the UK appears downright Marxist. Consider the following:
- The government requires its major banks to highlight their lending to troubled sectors such as commercial property but mainly with a view to showing greater willingness to lend.
- Cutting lines to any industrial activity such as making cars now appears forbidden for the legion of government-controlled banks.
- Banks are expected to show “understanding” in dealing with the problems of excessively leveraged customers.
- Pension funds are being forced to buy and hold greater amounts of UK corporate bonds than at any other point in their history.
Let’s see … banks being forced to show “understanding”, such as being told to write off all of Chrysler’s debt for nothing? Check. Floating private sector enterprises with government bonds, a la TARP? Check. Forcing banks to take TARP money and then attempting to control their lending policies and blocking the repayment of the TARP loans? Check.
And there’s more:
How does it choose to counter the costs of bailing out: does it suggest a means of wiping out government waste (if you will pardon the tautology) or does it plan to provide greater incentives for savings? Neither, as it turns out: the government’s magic bullet is to increase the top tax rate in the country from 40% to 50% in a move designed to raise a further 6 billion pounds in taxes (a piffling 3% of the government deficit).
So let me get this right. You are the finance minister of a country where the number of people making a decent disposable income, say over US$100,000 per year, has sharply declined over the past year. You have already spent hundreds of billions on bailing out your sick banks and even sicker industrial companies. Now, facing a deep recession, you choose to further reduce the disposable income of your most productive citizens to drive home a political point?
Apparently, that’s exactly what Britain plans to do. Michael Caine, for one, has had enough, and for good reason:
His name, as they say, is Michael Caine. And he’s not a happy bunny. The 76-year-old film star has revealed in colourful terms that he has had it, and will leave Britain if taxes get any higher.
“The Government has taken tax up to 50 per cent, and if it goes to 51 I will be back in America,” he said at the weekend. “We’ve got 3.5 million layabouts on benefits, and I’m 76, getting up at 6am to go to work to keep them. Let’s get everybody back to work so we can save a couple of billion and cut tax, not keep sticking it up.”
We’d love to have Caine here in America, but he may want to read the tea leaves on this side of the pond first. Barack Obama has the same kind of policies in mind here that will eventually bankrupt Britain. Moving to the US may just postpone the inevitable.
Blowback
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The unicorn flatula will be a free renewable source of energy that is “just like a tax cut”….
sven10077 on April 28, 2009 at 1:35 PM
Socialists always run out of other peoples’ money eventually.
lorien1973 on April 28, 2009 at 1:36 PM
I thought we fought britain so we would NOT be like them…the libs are nuts…
right4life on April 28, 2009 at 1:36 PM
Good luck with that Mr. Caine. We’re a matter of a year or two behind Great Britain.
stenwin77 on April 28, 2009 at 1:36 PM
It is all very well to bail out of your native land – but just where is everyone going to go in a few years – the moon is an airless void.
Much like the Obama administration…
kybowexar on April 28, 2009 at 1:37 PM
*SIGH*
I’m afraid there’s a huge ring of truth to that.
But Cain is still better off here.
We still have our guns.
Badger40 on April 28, 2009 at 1:38 PM
I can just hear him saying this, and it sounds refreshing.
Vashta.Nerada on April 28, 2009 at 1:38 PM
Scary shiite
blatantblue on April 28, 2009 at 1:39 PM
Maybe Great Britain can impose an “Islam tax” on all the Muslims they are let invading the country?
izoneguy on April 28, 2009 at 1:39 PM
Britain is not just a welfare state for British citizens but the for the entire European Union:
aengus on April 28, 2009 at 1:39 PM
Canary in a coal mine…and the Democrats just keep on digging.
AUINSC on April 28, 2009 at 1:40 PM
On Fox last Saturday morning, when the discussion turned to the new middle class tax increase being discussed in the US House, a liberal commenter said: “You had your tax cut in the first 100 days, now it is time to pay up.” I kid you not.
Vashta.Nerada on April 28, 2009 at 1:41 PM
Michael, I’ve loved your acting ever since Zulu; but, pay attention.
The Maker of Utopia in America has designs on your money and your productivity, the likes of which you can’t comprehend.
I would suggest that you stay in the UK, or elsewhere, the disaster of Socialism will eliminate the America that you grew up loving.
For the record – Michael Caine is an admitted Americaphile, God bless him.
OhEssYouCowboys on April 28, 2009 at 1:45 PM
The USA is already bankrupt. The media is hiding it is all.
Griz on April 28, 2009 at 1:45 PM
Morally, spiritually and economically.
OhEssYouCowboys on April 28, 2009 at 1:47 PM
I found out a couple of tib bits of information last night about this TARP thing.
Did anyone know that the government is charging 5% interest on TARP funds taken or forced upon these banks? It is no wonder the govt will not allow them to pay it back. I’m not sure if there was an “early payment penality” on these loans or not but suffice it to say there wasn’t. Right now the govt is so strapped for cash they need that interest to accrue.
Another thing, about the govt assistance for people who cannot pay their mortgage, did you know that if you qualify for this assistance when you sell your home in the future, all the money the govt gave you (your tax dollars) is to be paid back to the govt? This is not information that the govt is telling people, I found this out by talking to my local banker.
Amazing.
milwife88 on April 28, 2009 at 1:49 PM
Is it time for an “Off with their heads,” in a rhetorical-voting-booth sense, moment YET???
Branch Rickey on April 28, 2009 at 1:53 PM
Bankrupt in more ways than one.
Shy Guy on April 28, 2009 at 1:54 PM
No surprise there.
For instance: many years ago I had to go on welfare-for only 3 months-I was desperate. When I signed up, I asked on at least 5 different occasions, all different people,if the assistance had to ever be paid back by me, or my ex-husband.
All the answers were a resounding NO.
6 months later, after being off the assistance, they started garnishing the wages of my ex-husband for the assistance they gave my daughter & I.
He was furious & I didn’t blame him. I felt awful & for a while was sending him back any child care $$ I did not use, but that he had to pay to me.
My husband’s father back in the ’80s caved in & started taking govt farm $$ bcs he either had to or sell out.
They came to him at one time & said that $20,000 they gave him they decided he wasn’t entitled to & they wanted it ASAP. He had to sell stuff to give it back bcs he’d already used it to plant his crop.
Lesson:The govt whore $$ is never free.
Badger40 on April 28, 2009 at 1:56 PM
Your link doesn’t work.
Badger40 on April 28, 2009 at 1:57 PM
And you know what is so amazing is that they steal our $$ & never once think to pay it back!
Badger40 on April 28, 2009 at 1:58 PM
This “working” thingy is so over rated……..
Seven Percent Solution on April 28, 2009 at 1:58 PM
Thatcher tried to warn them.
-Dave
Dave R. on April 28, 2009 at 1:59 PM
We’re all headed toward the day when there will be no more income inequalities, rich people having been impoverished by government policies. Then the world will be perfect and fair, because everyone will be equally miserable.
Yay.
Cicero43 on April 28, 2009 at 2:00 PM
Check your phone lines and listen out for the black choppers.
Otherwise, link is just fine. ;)
Shy Guy on April 28, 2009 at 2:01 PM
So what exactly do we do when we reach that point? Not even conservatives have lowered taxes or really taken us back to a capitalist market. The US is inevitably going tihs direction, and then what? Are we all poor? Does nobody stand up and do anything? Do we juts hang our heads and say ‘I remember when…”
We sit here and blog about our demise, and nobody really has any answers about what we can do about it. It really sucks.
ballz2wallz on April 28, 2009 at 2:02 PM
Isn’t the nearest habitable-looking planet only 20 light years away?
Sekhmet on April 28, 2009 at 2:03 PM
You’re mocking Obama for confusing England and “Great Britain,” while you’re confusing Great Britain and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland?
calbear on April 28, 2009 at 2:05 PM
Oh, the monetary apocalypse is coming, and there will be nothing that can be done about it. Most people have no idea what this really means. None, at all.
progressoverpeace on April 28, 2009 at 2:05 PM
Michael Caine on Obama: “Some men just want to watch the world burn.”
Doughboy on April 28, 2009 at 2:06 PM
Do tell.
Puddleglum on April 28, 2009 at 2:09 PM
I guess I should have checked for the Gestapo.
Now it works for me.
Badger40 on April 28, 2009 at 2:10 PM
Describing our Nero to a tee.
Badger40 on April 28, 2009 at 2:11 PM
Sekhmet: the only problem is that by the time the multi-generation colonizing ships get there all the colonists will be socials, so no solution in that idea.
chemman on April 28, 2009 at 2:12 PM
bad spelling should be “all the colonists will be socialists not socials.
chemman on April 28, 2009 at 2:12 PM
I vote to move to Australia, see howards interview at NRO this week..
jp on April 28, 2009 at 2:13 PM
Mess, mess, mess–every where mess!!!
jeanie on April 28, 2009 at 2:13 PM
Yep, America, the last bastion of freedom, the last refuge! People have thought this for a long time, but it just ain’t true anymore. Nope, in the Obama Ers, as the song goes, “Nowhere to run, nowhere to hide, baby..”
Judd Gregg who backed out as Obama’s Commerce Secretary has warned quite pointedly, more than once, that Obama will bankrupt the United States…and it’s happening before our eyes. While Gregg may be a “yankee” from New Hampshire, Gregg is a silid financial guy who isn’t just “whistling Dixie.”
marybel on April 28, 2009 at 2:13 PM
ballz2wallz on April 28, 2009 at 2:02 PM
I feel your pain, but some people seem to be getting a movement going. Try these guys: Pat Dollard ACTIVE
javamartini on April 28, 2009 at 2:14 PM
And they’ll die of starvation. Who, among the Socialists, will be the first to plant a crop? They’ll all be waiting for the other person to do that.
Even they know that those of them, who didn’t produce the crop, will confiscate it from the person who did.
Galactic migration just isn’t an option.
OhEssYouCowboys on April 28, 2009 at 2:16 PM
The progressive mental disorder called liberalism is in a more advanced stage there than in our country. As they meet their demise, we will have a front row seat into the future of our country. Great Britain will collapse first and then it will start here beginning with the bankruptcy of California. Socialism is a terminal illness that has proven so with each victim it has chosen.
volsense on April 28, 2009 at 2:17 PM
Pretty sad, when you consider how Great, Great Britain has been for the world.
Most of the world is as it is today, and for the better, thanks to the British, their ideology and values and how they exported them to the world.
Most of the G7 nations, have English roots.
btw, Walter Russell Meads book, “God and Gold” is a must read. However the seeming apocolypse in front of us makes it seem like this narrative history is coming to an abrupt conclusion.
jp on April 28, 2009 at 2:17 PM
There is one silver lining here, though.
When the Muslims soon take control of the U.K., they won’t have any money to make mischief with.
:-)
-Dave
Dave R. on April 28, 2009 at 2:21 PM
The world maps are already being redrawn. English history will be destroyed, and replaced with a new history. One that describes how peaceful muslims came first and settled. Out of their good nature they allowed white settlers to come and live amongst them. They taught the white settlers everything since they were very, very ignorant. The new country shall be called Saudi Englandia.
darwin on April 28, 2009 at 2:23 PM
Does anyone know (and care to explain) what exactly happens when an entire nation goes bankrupt?
Puddleglum on April 28, 2009 at 2:23 PM
We’ve got to put the brakes on this, but how? The media, academia and the left have so indoctrinated the masses in this country that they think this is what they want.
Jvette on April 28, 2009 at 2:23 PM
Real estate in Monaco and Dubai is about to go through the stratosphere.
Rocks on April 28, 2009 at 2:28 PM
Badger40 on April 28, 2009 at 1:58 PM
You are right. Here’s another thing I’ve been thinking about. Let’s say I go to BOA and get a loan for a new car. Keep in mind they took TARP (my tax dollars) and are now going to charge me a loan fee and interest to borrow my OWN money. How much freaking sense does that make? Now if they really wanted to “open up credit” the would be making interest free loans and waiving loan fees. But if they did that how would they pay back to the govt the 5% interest they are being charged byt the govt? All in all this is the biggest FUBAR I have ever seen in my 39 years on this planet.
milwife88 on April 28, 2009 at 2:29 PM
That is definitely the best definition I’ve seen yet concerning this.
Badger40 on April 28, 2009 at 2:32 PM
I suppose in our case it might mean the Chinese are moving in & setting up shop.
Badger40 on April 28, 2009 at 2:33 PM
The situation of today is not merely one of a nation going bankrupt, but of a system disintegrating. This is the big difference. Other monetary implosions have occurred but they always happened within the context of a larger, stable currency existing. When the dollar goes, there is nothing else. The rest of the currencies are just piggy-backing the US dollar.
Now, the dollar is the glue that holds all of the world together, since it holds the US together and everyone else has been living off of the productivity, wealth, and dynamism of the US economy.
Lesser situations than this generally bring dictators to rise, since they require martial law, but at our scale even having martial law takes some sort of useable currency to maintain and direct.
Basically, if the dollar goes (becomes effectively unusable as a tradable currency) then no one has any idea what will follow, but it will not be pretty. We live in an “just-in-time inventory” environment …
progressoverpeace on April 28, 2009 at 2:38 PM
I hope John Cleese enjoys paying those taxes. He was a big Obama supporter and disrespected Sarah Palin a few times in the campaign.
Cheers John!
HondaV65 on April 28, 2009 at 2:39 PM
I suspect you are trying to be humble, or at least encourage a little introspection.
That would be wise, because the United States apparently paid no attention to what happened when the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland elected a socialist liberal government headed by a narcistic, egotistical lawyer and populated from a clique of well-meaning, fluffy-thinking control freaks with limited experience of life outside the political play pen.
At least, if the people of the USA were paying attention they either learned nothing from the experience of their cousins across the pond or thought that destroying an ecomonmy in the name of liberal values was a good thing.
The United States of America recently elected a party and a man who, frankly, make the nation-wrecking labour party of the United Kingdom, and its two recent leaders Tony Blair and Gordon Brown, seem like a clever choice. What the UK has had for 12 long and painful years, the USA possibly now has with steroids.
Yes, don’t even think about alleged superiority. The politics of the USA would appear to be in at least as bad a state as that of the UK.
As I have alluded to in this forum several times previously: DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE the speed and extent of the damage that a government composed of liberal socialists can wreak on a country.
Either fight back, or watch it all crumble before your eyes.
+1. Very good. Thank you.
YiZhangZhe on April 28, 2009 at 2:40 PM
Everybody calm down and by everybody I mean Ed. It’s funny that for most of last year I was chiding Ed for being too much of an optimist about the US economy and now I think you have gone to the other extreme.
Here is a chart of UK Gilts, ten year gov’t debt. You will notice that the price has been rising, yields have been falling, for a year. Before the UK goes bankrupt investors would surely start to shun their debt. So keep an eye on the Gilt. For now investors are showing no fear of a gov’t default or even of a period of inflation.
Bill C on April 28, 2009 at 2:43 PM
Thanks. I’m becoming very frustrated though with everyone sitting around talking about how terrible things will be, but offering very little about how to change it. Is there even a chance in hell that we can have a place that embraces values that conservatives hold?
ballz2wallz on April 28, 2009 at 2:44 PM
Britain is heading for a Conservative landslide in the next general election, which has to be before May 2010. Small comfort, but at least Cameron knows that we understand that painful cuts are going to have to be made. Even the BBC, chief propagandist for New Labour these last 12 years, is making vaguely sympathetic noises about the 30-year anniversary of Mrs. Thatcher’s election–that was another example of Tories cleaning up socialist messes. In the meantime, the elections to the European parliament are due in June, with the neo-Nazi BNP slated to pick up votes from the white working class who used to vote Labour. A Labour minister even wrote a piece in the Daily Mail begging us not to vote for them, can you imagine such a thing happening here in the US? Labour is long overdue for a kicking.
Fortunata on April 28, 2009 at 3:00 PM
Your apparent glee at the thought of another’s misfortune is repugnant. In any case you might want to keep the following figures in mind:
United Kingdom (2.7% muslim)
Germany (3.7% muslim)
Holland (5.8% muslim)
France (5-10% muslim)
Furthermore, the barbarians in Afghanistan didn’t exactly have a lot of money either, but they still managed to drag the USA into a ‘mischief’ that has lasted … oh, let’s see, seven years now is it, and still no end in sight? Unlike two of the countries in the above list they didn’t even have a sensible army or nuclear weapons.
Who’s controlling who?
YiZhangZhe on April 28, 2009 at 3:02 PM
When Pakistan meets its fate, millions of Muslims in Pakistan/Britain will be screaming and scrambling to get to Britain/get their family there. Perhaps Mr. 10% and his band will bring a lot of that American aid with them and help Britain with solvency. And millions of new immigrants are supposed to make the economy hum I keep hearing.
BL@KBIRD on April 28, 2009 at 3:06 PM
The level of incompetence shown by this government is absolutely astounding!
I mean lets be honest here…who wouldnt force employees who employee hundreds of thousands of British workers directly, as well as several million indirectly to NOT lay off staff after taking tens of billions of pounds of money to buy out all their toxic debt?
Not this Government. Hell no…it never crossed their minds that firstly they just racked up a hundred odd billion pounds of debt in banks and then will have to pay out hundreds of millions of pounds in benefits when the banks lay off large lumps of staff.
Thats then not taking in to account all the lost revenue from ex employees who no longer spend money in their local economies, which directly reduces the amount of tax the government can collect!
Bring on the next general election…the time to sweep this fetid carcass aside called labour is at hand!
Mailman
mailman on April 28, 2009 at 3:14 PM
employers I mean..force employers not to lay staff off!
Mailman
mailman on April 28, 2009 at 3:14 PM
No. Not right now, at least.
This brings up what I see as an interesting analogy. American conservatives are about to become the new Jews. They are defined by a document of principles (The Constitution) that was given to govern over this land. This document defined a unique form of governance that no other country in the world embraced, to this very day. As the US goes the way of the rest of the world, American conservatives will become a highly productive people with a strong creed, without a land in which to practice it anywhere on Earth.
I just found these possible similarities striking.
progressoverpeace on April 28, 2009 at 3:19 PM
Cameron isn’t going to make any significant cuts. He already rejected Norman Tebbit’s budget which would have cut £12bn in unnecessary spending. He’s talking out of both sides of his mouth, just as William Hague is on Lisbon.
Labour and Conservative are identical. It would be better if the Conservatives lost the election.
aengus on April 28, 2009 at 3:22 PM
Cameron’s still playing it softly softly, but there’s pressure from commentators to come out and fight. Tories have suffered from the “toxic brand” image that Democrats are now successfully smearing the Republicans with; still, it’s the best opportunity in 12 years to shake that off.
Why? And who would you prefer to win it?
Fortunata on April 28, 2009 at 3:29 PM
He’s just a careerist; a toffee-nosed liberal pothead.
The “nasty party”. I think I liked them better when everyone thought they were bastards.
To what end? It would be better if the Conservative Party just died. There’ll never be another conservative movement in Britain until that happens.
Because that would only create a two-party, one-party state. Clair and Blameron, as Peter Hitchens puts it.
If the Tories win it will just permanently marginalise people like David Davis. If I were British I’d vote UKIP, BNP or not at all.
aengus on April 28, 2009 at 3:39 PM
Even now it is conceivable that Labour will win the next election. The Conservative party presently stands for nothing in particular, and are trying to be just as fluffy as the liberals.
If Labour do win in 2010 the resulting collapse of the Conservative party (and possibly also the country) might be enough to bring about a much needed reforation of UK politics. By contrsast a Conservative win in 2010 might just keep the status quo limping along with the outcome being death by ten thousand drips of blood.
However, as BL@CKBIRD noted (3:06pm), it is also possible that UK politics will soon be overtaken by events in Pakistan. Neither Labour or Conservatives show any signs of being able to deal rationally or constructively with the consequences of collapse in Pakistan; I haven’t seen any evidence that they are even aware that there could be a problem.
In any case, (even more) mass immigration and economic devastation at the same time will almost certainly boost the turnout for the BNP, and also for the UKIP if they choose to compete nationally, or for some as yet unformed party.
YiZhangZhe on April 28, 2009 at 3:58 PM
Have to change the analogy now. The poor canary can’t afford the carbon tax to be in the coal mine!
txdoc on April 28, 2009 at 4:08 PM
I’m worried about the collapse of the US economy brought about by foolish runaway spending. If we fail to mobilize the welfare class into some form of productivity, their growth will kill the USA the same way ticks will eventually kill a dog.
Economic growth is the key to increased government revenue. Obama seems to think that energy reform, healthcare reform, and education reform will produce an expanded economy.
I respectfully disagree.
What he is doing is spending and expanding government which will increase our governments cost of doing business to an extent greater than the economy can grow above.
Foreign oil dependence is bad. Inner city education is bad. Healthcare costs are bad. But the cultural revolution in China was bad too.
If we could reduce the cost of government, we could expand our economy above and beyond our cost of doing business and avoid the huge cost of interest on a debilitating debt load.
The bottom line is that we are on the wrong track in any number of ways.
saiga on April 28, 2009 at 4:17 PM
You all make interesting points. I’d be happy for the BNP to pick up seats in the European elections, hoping they go on the wrecking spree that UKIP promised us. It would also be a signal to the Europhile wing of the Conservative party.
As for a BNP government in Britain, I dunno, I flinch a bit at the thought of how they might actually implement their policies. But they’re the only party actually channeling the very real anger about the creeping Islamicization of Britain; if the Tories adopt a stronger policy on immigration, welfare benefits and cultural cohesion — re Sharia law and Islamic schools, they could steal their thunder. Mrs Thatcher did so with the National Front in the 80s.
As for the coming flood of Pakistanis to what’s left of Britain. Bloody hell. Abrogate from the Human rights legislation that requires us to take them in? Oh well, BNP it is then…
Fortunata on April 28, 2009 at 4:21 PM
Oh, the irony!
Since B. Hussein likes to follow the lead of the Euro trash, I wonder if he’ll be able to see what happens in the economic model that not-so-Great Britain has set up for us:
Keep on bailin’ out, and the public will go broke.
madmonkphotog on April 28, 2009 at 4:23 PM
Iceland has had some recent experience with that.
ProfessorMiao on April 28, 2009 at 4:31 PM
The collapse of the US is inevitable at this point (IMHO).
To paraphrase Strother Martin, some people, you just can’t reach…the libtards wanted it this way, and well, they got it.
As is typical, no amount of historical evidence could dissuade them from their vision of a socialistic/Marxist utopia no matter the danger or the cost of human lives or to their progeny. In fact, many of them will go on refusing to believe that they were the cause of this fall and will blame “man”, or more precisely, the USA, for all of the world’s ills (global warming, extinction of species, hurricanes, etc.) They just cannot assimilate and accept, let alone live, with the idea that individuals can make decisions that are best for everyone and don’t actually need a large federal government…
Just depressing. Some days, I just can’t take anymore. The hits just keep on coming and as bad as I knew it was going to be, I guess I just hadn’t come to the internal understanding how ruinous this PotUS and the Congress was going to be…
:(
Geministorm on April 28, 2009 at 4:37 PM
OT: Where are strangelet and pop to give us a little insight into how this proves that liberals will be the salvation of the world?
Geministorm on April 28, 2009 at 4:39 PM
That’s just about the best, single quote, that I’ve read since I’ve been on Hot Air.
VERY nicely done.
I forget who said it, but he said:
America is the last great hope for Communism; it’s failed everywhere else.
But, failure doesn’t matter. Those who feel that they know what is better for us than we do; those who hold individual incentive and existence in contempt; those who prefer the power of the State, to that of her People – will never learn.
I, too, think that the America I grew up in and loved – is doomed. There are simply too many generations of Socialists being spat out by our public schools. Simply, too many. This was a war of numbers, and the war was lost when the public schools were ceded to the Socialists. This was their target … target the children … and America will collapse from within.
OhEssYouCowboys on April 28, 2009 at 4:50 PM
We do not want Michael Caine. The guy is a far-left truther.
amkun on April 29, 2009 at 5:50 AM