Dueling fence bills coming up in Congress
posted at 1:35 pm on April 27, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
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Expect some fireworks on border-security and immigration issues in this session of Congress, even apart from the swine-flu outbreak in Mexico. Competing bills have surfaced in the House, one which would demand more resources to building the border fence — and the other that would slow or stop fence construction altogether. It might help first to define exactly what a fence is:
Rep. Duncan Hunter (R-Calif.) introduced legislation to speed up completion of the Mexico-U.S. border fence, mandating an additional 350 miles of fencing by within a year. It’s often reported that over 600 miles of the originally-required 700 miles of fencing have been completed. That’s true, but half of the current fence is designed to stop vehicles, rather than pedestrians. Conservatives contend vehicle fencing–including bollards or poles set several feet apart–do not stop illegal immigrants on foot.
“That figure is misleading because over half the infrastructure along the border consists of vehicle barriers, which do not limit illegal foot traffic,” said Joe Kasper, a spokesman for Hunter.
Besides mandating additional pedestrian fence construction, Hunter’s bill would increase sentencing for weapons smuggling, punish so-called “sanctuary cities,” and require all employers to electronically verify the immigration status of employees.
Meanwhile, Rep. Raul Grijalva (D-Ariz.) has introduced a bill to SLOW construction of the border fence, citing concerns over environmental damage and tribal sovereignty. The bill would require more consultation with state and local governments, public notification, and stricter enforcement of environmental regulations.
More than seven years after 9/11, and more than four years after the 9/11 Commission demanded immediate action to secure America’s borders, the political class still has not finished what should be the most basic of all security protections. When Congress finally demanded and funded construction of a border fence, it assumed that the definition of “fence” was not “gate”. Apparently, the Department of Homeland Security has as much problem understanding the definition of “fence” as it does “threat”, at least when it comes to conservative political debate.
Grijalva’s bill would make it even worse. The federal government has few explicitly Constitutional tasks, but one of them is securing the nation’s borders. In that pursuit, they do not need to worry about their own environmental regulations, an area of government which should be handled by states in most instances anyway. The original bill understood that and waived those regulatory hurdles for a reason, and that reason was that they didn’t want the EPA politicizing the border-security issue.
Tribal sovereignty does not trump the Constitution or the national borders, either. We can debate the wisdom of the reservation system and whether we should continue it or look for a better solution, but it’s entirely irrelevant to border security and federal authority anyway. Grijalva just wants to throw as many roadblocks in front of the fence as possible, and he’s using tribal sovereignty as a red herring.
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Swine flu has nothing to do with this, since all cases involved travel by plane.
AnninCA on April 27, 2009 at 1:37 PM
we don’t need a fense
The border is actually being enforced now that there is a ‘pandemic’ on the loose
gatorboy on April 27, 2009 at 1:38 PM
Won’t happen………until flu victims start coming across in droves for better health system.
Starlink on April 27, 2009 at 1:38 PM
A Fence isn’t going to stop the flu… as much as I hate to say it.
I want the fence, but I don’t see TOTUS.. er I mean the POTUS saying let’s do this.
upinak on April 27, 2009 at 1:38 PM
Give it time. Soon, they will be clamoring to build a fence – around DC, to protect the congressmen from the pitchfork-wielding citizens.
Vashta.Nerada on April 27, 2009 at 1:38 PM
It’s going to take a massive real disease or a major terrorist attack for people to finally get the bleeping message that the border needs to be secured
Defector01 on April 27, 2009 at 1:41 PM
Yes, I favor building a fence. But I don’t see it as a permanent solution.
Visa overstays are the main problem.
Building a fence will prevent violence from spilling over, but as long as employers hire illegals along with the promise of another amnesty, illegals will continue to come here.
ColtsFan on April 27, 2009 at 1:42 PM
I heard the Mexicans want the fence built to keep out the right-wing extremeists. /sarc
WashJeff on April 27, 2009 at 1:42 PM
Where did all of the money allocated to the old fence go?
Asking this question, of course, makes me a racist. Let’s get serious folks. I live in the San Antonio suburb where the first two cases of Swine Flu in the US were found. Schools are closed this week as are all local events (hooray… no soccer practice!). You cannot ignore our porous borders, this is just one more reason to create an actual border instead of a politically correct soft border.
Maybe if a few key Hollywood stars get sick we can get some attention?
cannonball on April 27, 2009 at 1:42 PM
I assume you read that story as well? Fiction but quite interesting.
As for the Senate and Congress, they have to go home some day… and the people will still be waiting.
upinak on April 27, 2009 at 1:43 PM
Either Duncan Hunter’s fence, or gun towers. Whichever…
Star20 on April 27, 2009 at 1:43 PM
@coltsfan,
I agree: Visa overstays need to be enforced. I think we can safely assume that Swine Flu made it here on the backs of illegal border crossers though, not folks that have been here a long time.
cannonball on April 27, 2009 at 1:44 PM
Starlink, we can’t help with our fabulous health system. We don’t have enough stockpiled Tamiflu for us.
AnninCA on April 27, 2009 at 1:46 PM
Swine flu has nothing to do with this, since all cases involved travel by plane.
AnninCA on April 27, 2009 at 1:37 PM
How could you possibly know this?
artist on April 27, 2009 at 1:46 PM
Fixed. The more illegal aliens Dems can get in the country prior to amnesty the better their chances at a permanent majority.
amerpundit on April 27, 2009 at 1:46 PM
You may wanna check drudge….
upinak on April 27, 2009 at 1:47 PM
At this point I’d rather spend the money to put a fence up around The Hill.
Limerick on April 27, 2009 at 1:47 PM
Why? They deserve what they get IMHO.
upinak on April 27, 2009 at 1:48 PM
The reported purpose isn’t to have enough for every single citizen. The Tamiflu will apparently only work as long as the flu doesn’t mutate. It’s apparently to contain the virus.
No clue, especially since we’re still finding cases and have very little information on the existing ones.
amerpundit on April 27, 2009 at 1:49 PM
You may wanna check drudge….
upinak on April 27, 2009 at 1:47 PM
He has a dozen links, who said ALL cases in the US invloved plane travel?
artist on April 27, 2009 at 1:49 PM
Whether a white picket fence or a chain link fence, fences are meant to keep you and your ’stuff’ safe and keep others and their ’stuff’ out. (I won’t comment on stuff except to say that at our house it is mostly livestock, chickens, dogs, and gardens.) When you need to, you can graduate to adding barbed or hot wires to increase the protection. So I agree, fences are important to our security.
Since this is such a “duh” topic, I have to wonder what Mr Grijalva gets out of delaying the barrier?
Finally, for all of the civil righters and lefties, all fences have gates in them so that traffic (and ideas) can come and go – when invited. The old adage “Good fences make good neighbors” is very true.
gobblemom on April 27, 2009 at 1:49 PM
No clue, especially since we’re still finding cases and have very little information on the existing ones.
amerpundit on April 27, 2009 at 1:49 PM
Exactly.
artist on April 27, 2009 at 1:50 PM
But we don’t deserve what they give.
thomasaur on April 27, 2009 at 1:51 PM
artist…..they are tracking the known cases.
So far, this isn’t a crossing the border type deal.
AnninCA on April 27, 2009 at 1:51 PM
You Gringos should just defund all of your nativist fence building right now and instead use the money to buy “Spanish for Dummies” books. With as many congressmen in my pocket as there are you are going to need them soon enough. One could be mailed to each household for a lot less cost than this fence building nonsense. A small Mexican flag could also be included in each mailing.
VinyFoxy on April 27, 2009 at 1:53 PM
Ever think that people get around so damn much that someone is going to pick it up and use a plane to travel around the world?
You are correct. We are the people who voted these people in, and hope they do the “right” thing. Well what happens when they don’t? Are they just going to shrug, say they are sorry and walk away? It is coming to the point that people don’t want a apology… and that should be making you all think beyond the scope.
upinak on April 27, 2009 at 1:53 PM
Is this flu more problematic than the dysentary commonly shared upon return from Mexico?
seven on April 27, 2009 at 1:53 PM
So far, this isn’t a crossing the border type deal.
AnninCA on April 27, 2009 at 1:51 PM
I don’t think they would report it if it was.
They know what the end result of that would be.
Pardon my skepticism.
artist on April 27, 2009 at 1:53 PM
Ever think that people get around so damn much that someone is going to pick it up and use a plane to travel around the world?
…….
Hey, smart as* hat doesn’t answer the question.
Secondly, there are tens of thousands who cross the border DAILY.
artist on April 27, 2009 at 1:55 PM
I think the health organizations are pretty scrupulous about that sort of thing.
But that’s just my 2 cents.
AnninCA on April 27, 2009 at 1:56 PM
Well no, from the evidence that’s been made public, the swine flu made it to the US on the backs of American travellers returning from Mexico.
PS I am in favor of a real fence. But as others have pointed out, no fence will keep diseases from crossing the border.
ProfessorMiao on April 27, 2009 at 1:57 PM
Also, another medical fact. If you are infected, I rather doubt you’re up for racing border patrols. From what I’m reading, this hits within a few days of exposure and you are going to be one sick puppy when it does.
AnninCA on April 27, 2009 at 1:57 PM
Something’s going on in front of the White House. From Twitter:
amerpundit on April 27, 2009 at 1:58 PM
Well i am sorry you are so f’ing stupid to not think outside your box. BUT FYI, why don’t you take a gander at the Flu epidemic of 1914. We really didn’t have planes yet it seemed to go GLOBAL and stay like that for about a year.
Hmmmmmm and you don’t think travel via air due to people walking around with those who are about to board a plane isn’t worth worrying about? You obviously haven’t been on a plane!
upinak on April 27, 2009 at 1:58 PM
It’s a lot harder to ’share’ dysentery than flu virus particles.
ProfessorMiao on April 27, 2009 at 1:58 PM
Doctors? Yes… Politicians now in charge of Doctors? whole other story.
Romeo13 on April 27, 2009 at 1:59 PM
I agree, Prof. The border issue is entirely separate.
Argue away happily on that one. I have my opinion, of course.
My point is that this isn’t related to illegal immigrants nearly so much as just the usual travel industry and business travel in and out of Mexico.
AnninCA on April 27, 2009 at 1:59 PM
Romeo, that is scarey… in all aspects.
upinak on April 27, 2009 at 1:59 PM
As if a fence is going to do any good anyway… I’m serious when I advocate a small chain-link fence with little signs saying “¡El campo de minas guarda hacia fuera!” followed by an anti-vehicular minefield, an anti-vehicular ditch, then an anti-personnel minefield followed by another cheap chain-link fence with little signs saying, “Mine Field. Keep Out!” Then give the Border Agents a UAV capability to provide overwatch, perhaps using National Guard or Reserve units who can brush up on their flying skills.
Send_Me on April 27, 2009 at 2:00 PM
Since Ed Morrissey didn’t associate completing a real fence with keeping swine flu out, I’m not sure why so many posters here are hitting that point so hard. No, a fence won’t keep swine flu out. So? We still need an effective fence completed, to hinder illegal pedestrian traffic over the border.
It won’t shut such traffic down entirely, and we know that. But an effective fence would scope the problem down considerably, and that’s a good step in the right direction.
J.E. Dyer on April 27, 2009 at 2:00 PM
Ann I agree. I don’t think this is just illegals. I think this is tourists (US citizens) who got sick, when they went to the wrong part of Mexico and brought it back.
upinak on April 27, 2009 at 2:00 PM
Well i am sorry you are so f’ing stupid to not think outside your box. BUT FYI, why don’t you take a gander at the Flu epidemic of 1914.
……..
Did you mean 1918?
artist on April 27, 2009 at 2:01 PM
Hmmmmmm and you don’t think travel via air due to people walking around with those who are about to board a plane isn’t worth worrying about? You obviously haven’t been on a plane!
upinak on April 27, 2009 at 1:58
…..
WOW!
Your reading comprehension skills are seriously lacking.
artist on April 27, 2009 at 2:02 PM
*smiles* check the time frame… some say 1914, some say other. The people who died from it in 1914 and had their bodies worked on via the CDC since these were the first people who died and the permafrost kept their bodies frozen (aka the DNA and antibodies are still there) in Alaska, is the same strain. Interesting how that works since Alaska was pretty isolated even then.
upinak on April 27, 2009 at 2:03 PM
I think you’re right on this.
I must say, though, that I’m quite alarmed by the mortality stats being reported from Mexico. Unless they are underreporting the number of cases by several orders of magnitude, the mortality rate in Mexico for this bug is several times that for the 1918 flu, so far. It could very well be that a significant majority of cases in Mexico have not been reported given the abysmal state of their public health institutions, but still it is very disconcerting.
ProfessorMiao on April 27, 2009 at 2:04 PM
Close and secure the border. Build a solid fence. Hire and arm border guards. Its the best economic stimulus we could have. Then decide what to do with the illegals that are already here.
canditaylor68 on April 27, 2009 at 2:04 PM
I give fact and you talk about my comprehension? Can’t handle the truth or just don’t like to be called out on your own stupidity?
You choose. You are not my problem.
upinak on April 27, 2009 at 2:04 PM
Up….I listened to a very terrific show on this last night. John Bachelor devoted his entire night to it. It was really fascinating, but the result was I felt so much more informed and prepared.
He kept reminding people that the headlines are going to scare everyone. Keep perspective. Even the numbers are probably wrong at this point from Mexico.
More to come, eh?
AnninCA on April 27, 2009 at 2:04 PM
some say 1914
…..
Ya, some.
artist on April 27, 2009 at 2:05 PM
I would assume so. I am waiting for Alaska to have some cases. People up here go to Mexico like it was Hawaii.
upinak on April 27, 2009 at 2:06 PM
You choose. You are not my problem.
upinak on April 27, 2009 at 2:04 PM
You clearly don’t know how to read.
“Hmmmmmm and you don’t think travel via air due to people walking around with those who are about to board a plane isn’t worth worrying about?”
Show me where I said or even suggested that.
I dare you.
artist on April 27, 2009 at 2:06 PM
Oh, Prof…..referring again to this Bachelor program, the guy he had on in the last hour was from the World Center for Disease Control and said, “We can’t be sure about the real mortality rate in Mexico.” Right now, it looks awful. BUT, that is because they don’t have a handle on the identification of number of cases.
In other words, the rate may be a lot lower, but the number of actual cases a lot higher than is known.
That made a ton of sense to me, anyway.
He suggested we’ll know more as we see numbers come in from countrie where the diagnosis is quicker and more reliable.
AnninCA on April 27, 2009 at 2:07 PM
For now. If it spreads to the border towns of Mexico and we close the borders for a time to keep it from spreading even more here, then it would be really nice to be able to keep out people coming over illegally!
MamaAJ on April 27, 2009 at 2:08 PM
Well, it would be nice to have that neato Japanese screening system, too, where they can detect who is running a fever and returning to the country.
But that’s another cabillion bucks.
AnninCA on April 27, 2009 at 2:09 PM
Honestly I think that smart. Japan being such a little place with a huge population. One big disease/flu/cold that is a kill can kill that island in days.
upinak on April 27, 2009 at 2:11 PM
For a ‘normal’ mortality rate, Mexico would have to have about 15,000 cases if the 149 reported deaths are all attributable to the flu. That’s not inconceivable, especially in a cess pool like Mexico City…
But the other troubling characteristic of this bug is the category of people who are dying – otherwise healthy youngish adults (unless what I read is wrong). Not the very young and the very old, is the case with run-of-the-mill influenzas.
ProfessorMiao on April 27, 2009 at 2:14 PM
That’s the nature of swine flu. It’s not in sync with human biology. So it hits the healthy.
Me? I’m probably safe. *haha :)
AnninCA on April 27, 2009 at 2:15 PM
Me, too, up…and maybe one day we can install some actual machinery that works in our airports. I’m totally sick of the baggie routine. Lordy, we’re stupid sometimes.
AnninCA on April 27, 2009 at 2:16 PM
If we had a real fence, the kind Israel builds, over the entire border, the ability of an invasion of sick pandemic victims to be stpped is infinitely higher…today there is no security much less pandemic control…and both parties are to blame.
JIMV on April 27, 2009 at 2:17 PM
Let’s look on the good side. Janet needs a success here in a big way.
If ever there’s someone motivated to handle this properly, it’s her. :)
AnninCA on April 27, 2009 at 2:17 PM
Several countries used these during the SARS outbreak a few years ago. It is very effective in picking up menopausal women having hot flashes but doesn’t catch anyone who is asymptomatic but incubating a virus. And it doesn’t do any good at all if it doesn’t result in everyone who was on the same plane as the feverish person who is detained isn’t isolated as well.
ProfessorMiao on April 27, 2009 at 2:18 PM
Well, JIMV, that’s taking the conversation back to the fence.
I’d gently point out that is why tunnels are so effective. I have absolutely no doubt that’s what we’d have shortly, too.
AnninCA on April 27, 2009 at 2:18 PM
you are correct.. they are going by deaths of those whom are of average healthy age (18-55).
But my question is, not many want to go to the doctors. I hate it and if I have the flu I usually just stay home. So how many are actually staying home?
upinak on April 27, 2009 at 2:18 PM
*hooting*
Oh goodness, that does make sense, Professor.
I’ve got to share that one with my daily walking buddies. :)
AnninCA on April 27, 2009 at 2:19 PM
Well, Mexico is scared now, up, so I’m guessing nobody who has symptoms of flu is taking it lightly now.
It’s identified.
Thank God there is Tamiflu. If you get treatment going within 48 hours, it can be very effective.
AnninCA on April 27, 2009 at 2:20 PM
On the issue of the fence, I have a pipe dream: there should be some actual data now that shows whether the fence is working well and compares it to other efforts such as Operation Streamline in actually reducing illegal crossings. Wouldn’t it be cool if the gov’t could do what works well??
MamaAJ on April 27, 2009 at 2:22 PM
Ann we don’t have enough Tamiflu or the other (I forget the name) here in Alaska. Nice huh. And they will only send extra if the flu has been known to be in that area, or what they concider an outbreak. Great… I have to wait for a sick UPS or FedEx Pilot who is delivering this?
I am not holding my breath up here.
upinak on April 27, 2009 at 2:23 PM
They’ll send it when there’s a case identified. But yes, you’re right. We’re short on the medicine.
That was the reason for my snippy remark about our great healthcare system.
I know, I know. They can’t predict.
But still! I’m a bit toast on this issue of not having simple solutions available.
AnninCA on April 27, 2009 at 2:27 PM
I have a really great idea for ECONOMICALLY building the fence between Mexico and the United States: all labor will be supplied by illegal Central American workers, with their only “wages” being housing and food. All those who work on the fence get to stay on the U.S. side when it’s finished. ;-)
Logic on April 27, 2009 at 2:29 PM
Let’s hope its tens of thousands! I’m just hoping I have no need to visit my doctor in the next few weeks (months?), since a waiting room full of flu-ey types is the last place I want to have to be!
ProfessorMiao on April 27, 2009 at 2:29 PM
amen, Mama…..but so far, the best solution has been pretty simple in LA. No jobs.
The lousy economy has reduced our influx. We’ve dropped in school enrollments by 50,000 students.
Now, mind you, we just BUILT 32 new schools that are now unneeded.
(Off topic, but you want to know what the idiotic supertendent said? Well, we’re giving contruction men jobs.)
*sigh*
My objection isn’t the “direction” of the country. It’s the lack of actual processes to execute the direction.
AnninCA on April 27, 2009 at 2:30 PM
Right now most of the Mexican cases are in the heartland of Mexico… it has not really spread to the Northern border in large numbers…. yet…
Problem is, that it will, and THEN we will see a HUGE number of sick illegals come across the border because WE HAVE TO TREAT THEM BY LAW!
Best thing to do would be to get the Guard on the border and seal it BEFORE those folks try to cross the border for medical aid… and thusly spread it to our own border areas.
Romeo13 on April 27, 2009 at 2:32 PM
I know I’m a broken record, but if they want to build a pedestrian fence for the entire border, they need to figure out what to do about the Texas citizens who will be fenced off from their land. In Texas, the fence has to be built far north of the border.
Plus the expense. The existing fence is way over budget, and they haven’t even tried to fence the more rugged areas.
I’m not saying it shouldn’t be done, but it’s more complicated than most people think. Meanwhile, the Border Patrol is hiring. They need people.
juliesa on April 27, 2009 at 2:35 PM
Romeo, you know I agree with you on this. But what can be done…shot them?
upinak on April 27, 2009 at 2:35 PM
Again, Romeo. We don’t have medical aid.
We’re short on medical supplies.
Welcome to the new world of America. The good news is that we’re not the oasis anymore. The bad news is that we’re not the oasis anymore.
AnninCA on April 27, 2009 at 2:35 PM
We need a fence to keep The Mexican Swine Flu out. A wall would be better. Two walls even better. Throw in a 300 meter killing field.
Jerricho68 on April 27, 2009 at 2:36 PM
Is there work for those of us who lost our 401Ks but probably couldn’t outrun a duck? :)
AnninCA on April 27, 2009 at 2:36 PM
No, turn em back.
We cannot allow an invasion of Illegals to overwhelm what few Medical resources we have, thus denying our own citizens.
Romeo13 on April 27, 2009 at 2:37 PM
I’d prefer to see more doses of Tamiflue, Jerricho.
Call me ….
Pragmatic
AnninCA on April 27, 2009 at 2:37 PM
Um, why does the fence have to be far north of the Border in Texas?
Crud, chinese built the Great Wall a couple of thousand years ago… we can’t build a stinkin fence RIGHT on the border?
Problem is politics, not engineering.
Romeo13 on April 27, 2009 at 2:40 PM
And now it is money.
Even though I think Volunteers would love to be involved.
upinak on April 27, 2009 at 2:48 PM
Hey, that’s a very cool solution.
Obama just rolled out his great volunteer program. Perfect first project!
Let’s take bets on how that won’t be the path. :)
AnninCA on April 27, 2009 at 2:53 PM
I don’t know how the atmosphere is in Texas. I can guess about AZ.
But in So. Cal? I personally think we have a very comfortable relationship with immigrants, OTHER than the health care benefits issue.
It just sort of works well here.
Now, we’d like to see a solution to health care.
AnninCA on April 27, 2009 at 2:54 PM
I think Obama and Hillary should both go to Mexico City and stay there until all of these problems are completely worked out.
Star20 on April 27, 2009 at 2:58 PM
Let us not forget these well reported instances:
Border incursions rattling Arizonans
http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/0203incursions0203.html
Tom
marinetbryant on April 27, 2009 at 2:58 PM
have a link for that twitter?
homesickamerican on April 27, 2009 at 3:00 PM
The answer to tunnels is water…that said, it is a lot harder for a million folk to que up at the tunnel entrance and cross than to simply walk across the border, as they do today.
The idea is not to stop illegal invasion, but to reduce it to reasonable numbers.
JIMV on April 27, 2009 at 3:03 PM
Romeo, because of the river and the floodplain. The border is in the middle of the river. The fence can’t be built in the floodplain for at least two reasons: It would wash away periodically, and it would be against the International Boundary and Water treaty we have with Mexico. So the fence is being built as far as a mile north of the border.
Some people don’t mind if their house is on the Mexican side, but many do, depending on their situation. Some people’s property will be cut in half, and they don’t know if there will a gate made for them to get to their irrigation pumps and fields. Access and eminent domain issues are still being figured out.
I just wish the government would pay the amount of the full value lost, but they rarely do. If Duncan Hunter and others would address property rights concerns, I’d feel better about this huge government land grab.
juliesa on April 27, 2009 at 3:10 PM
There were a lot of SHIPS crossing the Atlantic during the Spanish flu epidemic, so that if one infected person got on a ship with hundreds of other people, they could all be sick by the time the ship arrived.
Of course, immigration by ship back then was easier to control, since forcing immigrants onto Ellis Island meant that it was harder for illegal immigrants to “disappear” into society–they would have to swim to New Jersey.
With the Mexican border, the Rio Grande (even though it means “great river”) is not very wide, and there are long stretches of the border without any water barrier. We DO need a pedestrian-proof fence.
Steve Z on April 27, 2009 at 3:15 PM
Maybe they need to run another Iditarod dogsled delivery to Nome?
Steve Z on April 27, 2009 at 3:17 PM
Now that would be interesting. During the Break Up (spring) we have. Running 20 dogs on a 4 wheeler…. hmmmmmmm
upinak on April 27, 2009 at 3:22 PM
To follow on to my comment, also because of the river’s curves. Go on Google Earth or maps and look at the river, especially near it’s mouth. It loops and doubles back on itself constantly. There are many places where you can be standing in Texas and look north across the river into Mexico.
If we built a fence that followed exactly along the border, we would have to double or even triple the miles of fencing needed.
juliesa on April 27, 2009 at 3:27 PM
Jefferson’s Grand Experiment required assimilation, that is a long time coming, no more reservations, plenty of time has passed for assimilation to take place. You cannot have a sovereign nation inside another sovereign nation. Why did America set criteria so the civilized tribes could adopt American ways so they could have citizenship, and they could be assimilated, and given the vote which they were “Not For Nothing”. We have enemies this country needs to MELD together.
Dr Evil on April 27, 2009 at 3:29 PM
Sorry, but that is an Engineering issue… one that is dealt with nationwide every day.
There are hundreds of floodplains controled all over the place. Heck… the town I grew up in in Central California was once part of a SWAMP.
Its a question of will to do it… and the willpower needed to bypass the politics…
We have the RIGHT to control our border… if the Treaty does not allow for that, then it needs to be changed, as it is an Unconstitutional Treaty as its the Fed Govs DUTY to control the border.
Romeo13 on April 27, 2009 at 3:31 PM
Once again… thats just engineering… get the politicians out of the way and it will be built…
Look at the Railroad tunnels through Colordo… many built in the 1800’s… and we can’t build a stinkin FENCE now?
Romeo13 on April 27, 2009 at 3:33 PM
When it’s ajar.
Tzetzes on April 27, 2009 at 3:35 PM
Romeo, they’re already building parts of the fence, and it’s being built as much as a mile north of the border. No one is talking about changing the treaty, and I don’t think they will.
If they’re going to build it, they can do it engineering-wise, but people should know about the eminent domain costs, and also realize that the most rugged terrain (two large reservoirs and thousand foot deep canyons) hasn’t been attempted yet. It will be very expensive. Not saying it can’t be done, but it’s not the straight line across flat desert that most people think it is.
juliesa on April 27, 2009 at 3:39 PM
As I understand it (and I’m no expert), this flu triggers an immune system response that can cause an overabundance of congestion in people with very strong immune systems (typically, healthy people in the 20-44 age range). They end up dying of pneumonia, as their lungs fill up. It’s ironic that the healthier you are, the harder it hits you.
AZCoyote on April 27, 2009 at 4:00 PM
Fences will not stop migration, nor slow it. In best cases, it gives USBP time to react.
In populated areas, fences are for the most part practical, but have the added problem of giving smugglers a vantage point for rocking agents working in the area.
In deserts, vehicle barricades, not pedestrian fences are more practical (You have climbed a fence or two as a kid, right?) but not solutions.
Anything we try to do, smugglers will find a way to counter in a few weeks.
cadetwithchips2 on April 27, 2009 at 4:11 PM
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