Liz Cheney vs. Norah O’Donnell: “The tactics are not torture”
posted at 2:45 pm on April 26, 2009 by Allahpundit
A few days old but we’ve had a steady stream of requests for it. Hotline has the transcript; don’t quit before the end or you’ll miss her thoughts on Palin and Meghan McCain. Speaking of McCains, Maverick may differ with Cheney about whether waterboarding constitutes torture but they agree that a “truth commission” would be a very bad idea. A good question: “[Enhanded interrogation] was bad advice. But if you criminalize bad advice on the part of lawyers, how are you going to get people to serve, and what sort of precedent does that set for the future?”
Actually, here’s a better question: If we all know it’s going to happen anyway in certain circumstances, why not legalize it? Kathleen Parker, unsurprisingly, doesn’t get it:
In his book “Shouting Fire: Civil Liberties in a Turbulent Age,” Dershowitz proposes that since torture is a given under those certain circumstances, then “torture warrants” should be issued by a judge.
He is right that most of us would do whatever necessary to save our child, possibly even torture a kidnapper. Likewise, if we stumbled upon someone trying to harm a loved one, we would kill the attacker if necessary to stop him.
But those are both darkly impassioned environments. It is by the cool light of day that we devise our laws. And it is by that same light that we judge our actions.
The law would protect you if you had to kill an attacker to stop him from killing, which is to say, it’s those “darkly impassioned environments” that law is most concerned with. Why leave a CIA agent in legal limbo if, however likely or unlikely it may be, he finds himself with a detainee in a ticking-bomb scenario?
Do yourself a favor after you watch the clip. Go listen to the archived audio here. Three minutes.
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How do you know that torture corrupts? This is just like “torture doesn’t work”?
Have you done the double blind studies?
Does stealing corrupt?
rokemronnie on April 26, 2009 at 5:32 PM
Move to a country that tortures.
America, love it or leave it.
Get out.
getalife on April 26, 2009 at 4:45 PM
MikeA on April 26, 2009 at 5:32 PM
I dont get it. Pelosi is lying about the waterboarding sessions. Dont we log all meetings and document attendance? That would shut her pie-hole once and for all.
By the way this whole waterboarding thing is a Democrat attention diversion from the miserable job he’s doing.
Also if GM is Obama Motors now..umm the Unions will negotiate their next contract with the government watching..umm Obama likes Unions right??? Ka-chinggg id say.
malkinmania on April 26, 2009 at 5:32 PM
He is probably on the phone with the ACLU asking if facing tough questions in a conservative blog qualifies as torture.
terryannonline on April 26, 2009 at 5:32 PM
darwin on April 26, 2009 at 5:31 PM
Thank you.
Otis B on April 26, 2009 at 5:32 PM
I think MegMac would be perfectly happy with Mac-Donald’s
Upstater85 on April 26, 2009 at 5:33 PM
Don’t see much difference between Norah O’Donnell and Tokyo Rose.
Star20 on April 26, 2009 at 5:33 PM
get a clue
long_cat on April 26, 2009 at 5:33 PM
Thank you for your service.
terryannonline on April 26, 2009 at 5:33 PM
Well… did kinda make him feel bad… and the Mental damage could be lasting…
Dam… just tortured him…
Romeo13 on April 26, 2009 at 5:34 PM
Uh-oh… Janet will be shutting HA down in 5-4-3-2…
Upstater85 on April 26, 2009 at 5:34 PM
Better get you on the bus with Pelosi and Co.
Upstater85 on April 26, 2009 at 5:35 PM
terryannonline on April 26, 2009 at 5:33 PM
You’re welcome – I plan to retire at the end of this tour, so a lot of what is happening in the VA and everything else is pretty important to me.
Otis B on April 26, 2009 at 5:35 PM
To where are you getting this information?
Just make it up?
Kini on April 26, 2009 at 5:36 PM
As Mark Twain said…
Go to Heavan for the climate… hell for the company…
See ya all in FEMA Camp!
Romeo13 on April 26, 2009 at 5:36 PM
‘
Dang I feel bad now. I must torture myself to alleviate my guilt. Anyone have a catepillar?
terryannonline on April 26, 2009 at 5:36 PM
getalife; didn’t the real “One” say something about if you are guilty of breaking part of the law then you are guilty of violating the whole law. Seems to me you will be spending the same eternity with the enemy as you judge others to be. I believe one of the big 10 says “Thou shalt not lie” which you obviously did two days ago.
chemman on April 26, 2009 at 5:36 PM
I really think that getalife is a machine. waterboard bad torture bad love it leave it.
Just does not sound altogether human if you know what I mean.
Terrye on April 26, 2009 at 5:37 PM
And that was just in the last few minutes. Count all the other threads you have been on, well, the number of times you have died, I lost count.
MB4 on April 26, 2009 at 5:37 PM
It’s impossible. These programmed ones just keep repeating the same thing over and over. This one must have had a lazy indoctrinator.
darwin on April 26, 2009 at 5:37 PM
Who is interviewing who, Nora, you Obama shill.
The Japanese in WW2 drowning a uniformed soldier or innocent civilian is NOT the same thing as carefully controlled water interrogation where clean & warm water never enters the body of three (3) very high level terrorist with life and death information.
Nora is a (Perez Hilton quote).
RobCon on April 26, 2009 at 5:37 PM
Hey, you have to give her credit… She just keeps coming back to life.
Upstater85 on April 26, 2009 at 5:38 PM
Growfins and getalife have still not answered the question – what laws apply to the terrorists that are captured by the US ?
The exchange where Liz Cheney tells O’Donnell that AQ would behead US soliders if they get caught is pretty telling – in fact there is no response from liberals or for that matter any one else to that point. How could there be ?
Whenever people bring about the much hallowed Geneva Conventions, they are not honest enough to acknowledge two main points
A. Countries that participate in this convention were bought together by the idea of protecting their own soldiers – not that of other countries. In fact, if THERE IS NO RECIPROCITY, this is a useless treaty and amounts to unilateral concessions from one side in a war.
This is in fact the reason for the treaty – every one cares about the humane treatment of their own soldiers
War is ugly business, through and through – to pretend otherwise, is delusional. Treaties, conventions cannot hide the ugliness of war but only try to mitigate it. Even then, reciprocity is the key.
B. Al Qaeda or any other terror organization in the future cannot be considered ” a nation state”. That is downright dumb. These are non state actors and dont adhere to any of the rules or laws of war – their ENTIRE ADVANTAGE is in not following them. Does not take a rocket scientist to figure that out.
With all that being said, how do you treat terror suspects and terrorists ? It is interesting that even though the CIA has been castigated by the liberals for what they have done, the CIA itself seems to have tried to do everything with out “crossing the line” – they used waterboarding because they seemed to be desperate to do anything to get information from these bastards.
Where do we draw the line ? That is the question that needs to be answered. And that does not happen by accusing people who try their best to defend you with threats of legal action or by preening about morals.
This is exactly why it is difficult to have an honest debate about it – armchair moralists who have the comforts of luxury moralism are in no mood to even listen or be informed.
nagee76 on April 26, 2009 at 5:38 PM
Terrye on April 26, 2009 at 5:37 PM
I debate like a machine.
Surrender.
getalife on April 26, 2009 at 5:39 PM
Well… trolls do regenerate ya know…
and by definition are Loathsome and Rubbery… so they bounce…
Romeo13 on April 26, 2009 at 5:39 PM
Nora is a (Perez Hilton quote) Oh-Kaaaay
RobCon on April 26, 2009 at 5:40 PM
The only machine that you debate like we couldn’t mention on this thread… Hint, it fits right in your pocket.
Upstater85 on April 26, 2009 at 5:40 PM
That would explain Queen Nan’s appearances…
Upstater85 on April 26, 2009 at 5:40 PM
Maybe, if they stopped at about 10 or 15 of them in the space of 2 or 3 hours.
MB4 on April 26, 2009 at 5:40 PM
Nah you are more predictable than a machine.
Sorry but you opened yourself up for that :)
terryannonline on April 26, 2009 at 5:41 PM
Besides we don’t have to move if we want torture, not with Obama in the White House. No sireee, he will just send that detainee off to some nice hell hole in the Arab world where they do electrodes to the testicles instead of waterboarding. But that is okay, we can at least sleep at night knowing Obama and his friends have done a fine job of covering their asses.
Terrye on April 26, 2009 at 5:41 PM
You don’t debate getalife. You regurgitate.
Terrye on April 26, 2009 at 5:42 PM
AND if they let her put the Milkshake maker in the back of AP’s car…
“My milkshake brings me to the Micky-Ds and the Da da dadada.”
Upstater85 on April 26, 2009 at 5:43 PM
Uh, I’ll attest to the fact that you don’t. You simply ignore questions (like mine) and bleat the same thing over and over.
darwin on April 26, 2009 at 5:43 PM
Notice how the patriotic themes to their posts.
Somehow, that suppose to make us conservatives sit up and take notice to these talking head points.
When reason fails to nullify their argument of what defines torture and illegality, they resort to catch phrases.
How cliche
Kini on April 26, 2009 at 5:43 PM
Oh… I’m sorry, you were confessing that you are an O-bot… sorry…
Upstater85 on April 26, 2009 at 5:43 PM
Nancy Pelosi saw nothing, she heard nothing, she knows nothing. She did not even get up on any of those days when they talked about anything but ponies and rainbows.
OberfeldwebelSchultz on April 26, 2009 at 5:44 PM
Good points … but lefties don’t seem to care about our guys, only the enemy.
darwin on April 26, 2009 at 5:44 PM
You mean “enemy.” Don’t forget that your definitions are shifting.
baldilocks on April 26, 2009 at 5:44 PM
And how her farts smell like strawberry cream…
Upstater85 on April 26, 2009 at 5:45 PM
You debate like a Yugo with a busted transmission.
Go back to the shop for much needed repairs.
MB4 on April 26, 2009 at 5:46 PM
Interesting…. by the legal definition of torture, that College indoctrination course we read about on here could be TORTURE, as it is intended to “profoundly disrupt the personality (value system), and intended to last…
Romeo13 on April 26, 2009 at 5:46 PM
I have a great game to play.
Everyone post like getalife. We will see what his next post is and whomever comes closest to his post, gets 10 points.
What ya’ll say? Anyone in?
deidre on April 26, 2009 at 5:47 PM
Nancy Pelosi is trying be casted in the next “See No Evil, Hear No Evil” movie. I think she could do a good job playing the part.
terryannonline on April 26, 2009 at 5:48 PM
I have already created the getalife drinking game™. It makes the evenings go by pretty quick. Ive posted it in a few threads before.
daesleeper on April 26, 2009 at 5:48 PM
Exceptionally well done, Liz Cheney. And her point about using news headlines as facts by the talking heads needs to be reiterated.
onlineanalyst on April 26, 2009 at 5:49 PM
HA HA!
Reminds me of the Holy Grail.
I fart in your general direction.
Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries
As many have noted, they still haven’t answered the question as asked by nagee76 on April 26, 2009 at 5:38 PM:
Kini on April 26, 2009 at 5:49 PM
I’m telling you… It’s something that one of those old white guys wrote in his journal in like the 16 or 15 hundreds…
Upstater85 on April 26, 2009 at 5:51 PM
She’s doing a great job of weeding out the competition. Anyone that sees her has seen pure evil.
Upstater85 on April 26, 2009 at 5:52 PM
Oooo, I definitely need to find that one!!!
deidre on April 26, 2009 at 5:52 PM
Let’s set the record straight from someone who has ACTUALLY been waterboarded in SERE at Camp Mackall NC. Waterboarding is STILL legal under the Uniform Code of Military Justice which has a MUCH stricter rule of law than the Federal or State court system. If waterboarding was torture it would be ILLEGAL under the UCMJ.
The sencond point is that SERE is conducted because NONE of our enemies, since the Geneva Conventions were created, have ever followed the Geneva Conventions, thus SERE is applicable because our enemies refuse to follow any rules of war. The U.S., on the other hand, have FOLLOWED the Geneva Conventions and leftists don’t like that. If leftist don’t like the FACT that none of the terrorists captured by the U.S. are afforded Geneva Conventions protection by the Accord itself,…TOUGH!
nelsonknows on April 26, 2009 at 5:52 PM
I’m in!
I debate like I know what I’m talking about
Submit to Islam
Torture is Good
Your life as you’ve know it, is over, you will now serve the Borg!
Kini on April 26, 2009 at 5:52 PM
I died twice.
My President, the adult, raised me from the dead.
deidre on April 26, 2009 at 5:54 PM
WOW, Liz Cheney for President.
What poise under pressure. How she was able to keep her cool and get her point across is very impressive.
Jaynie59 on April 26, 2009 at 5:54 PM
If getalife is anything like Seven of Nine, I will start treating her better…
Upstater85 on April 26, 2009 at 5:55 PM
That was a great Talledega race.
getalife on April 26, 2009 at 5:55 PM
OK…. my turn…
I died twice… under torture.
America does not torture…
The adults are in charge…
I am Iranian….
/getalife
Romeo13 on April 26, 2009 at 5:56 PM
He took some sand and made my new ribs … Then he breathed into me.
But on the 100th day, I was lonely, so Teh One said, let there be Grows Fin… and there was…
Upstater85 on April 26, 2009 at 5:57 PM
No, you die here every day, dear.
I have in fact been wheeled into an ER with no pulse and no blood pressure. That’s as close as one can get.
Del Dolemonte on April 26, 2009 at 5:57 PM
deidre:
Post like getalife? I dunno.
Terrye on April 26, 2009 at 5:57 PM
The economy is fixed.
Oh praise to the great President.
Cons are evil.
Cons do not support the troups.
deidre on April 26, 2009 at 5:58 PM
After Michelle O sucks the blood from getalife (every Friday night), she gets pretty close herself…
Upstater85 on April 26, 2009 at 5:59 PM
I have died twice
The devils are in charge
Patriots are illegal
I support the devil
thorazine good
daesleeper on April 26, 2009 at 5:59 PM
Chin up. I’ve haven’t a life
I debate like a shopping cart with three broken wheel
Everything I read in the NY Times is true
I think Meg McCain is dreamy
I believe V8 makes a good mix with vodka
CNN is GOD
Kini on April 26, 2009 at 6:00 PM
That is just too good!!!!!! LOL!! +100000
deidre on April 26, 2009 at 6:00 PM
Aw come on!
Get yer Troll out and dance!
Kini on April 26, 2009 at 6:01 PM
Excellent points! The Geneva Conventions exist to PROTECT US SERVICE MEMBERS. It does not exist to tie our hands and protect al qaeda. This is the same ridiculous argument that the man child president makes in regards to the constitution. A document of negative liberties!!
long_cat on April 26, 2009 at 6:01 PM
Yea, though I walk through the valley of cons,
I fear no death
For my Teh One will breath life into me again.
/getalife
Upstater85 on April 26, 2009 at 6:03 PM
Excellent Point! And thanks for your service.
Kini on April 26, 2009 at 6:04 PM
I guess CNN and MSNBC has to do something to get their viewers to tune in you know their ratings went flat since the election is over. this is to gin up ratings.
Who thinks George W Bush or his administration is going to be investigated or tried for anything? George W Bush was President during the last campaign cycle he knows all the dirty tricks that went on. I hardly think the Democrats want him to pull that trigger….Campaign finance and Acorn activity, would be a good place to start leaking LOL!
Dr Evil on April 26, 2009 at 6:04 PM
You’re the one giving out the inspiration!
I like this game. We should have a contest. That would be bound to give AP enough posts to take MegMac to Micky-Ds
Upstater85 on April 26, 2009 at 6:04 PM
This is a distraction no one is talking about tea partys in the news cycle anymore.
Dr Evil on April 26, 2009 at 6:05 PM
I believe enhanced interrogation techniques should be rare, safe, and legal….
Oh what that’s supposed be my position on abortion….
My bad, libs! I get them confused!
terryannonline on April 26, 2009 at 6:06 PM
+1000
Upstater85 on April 26, 2009 at 6:06 PM
Minstrel: [singing] Brave Sir Getalife ran away…
Sir Getalife: *No!*
Minstrel: [singing] bravely ran away away…
Sir Getalife: *I didn’t!*
Minstrel: [singing] When danger reared its ugly head, he bravely turned his tail and fled.
Sir Getalife: *I never did!*
Minstrel: [singing] Yes, brave Sir Getalife turned about, and valiantly, he chickened out.
Sir Getalife: *Oh, you liars!*
Minstrel: [singing] Bravely taking to his feet, he beat a very brave retreat. A brave retreat by brave Sir Getalife.
Kini on April 26, 2009 at 6:07 PM
Best played while watching old “Newhart” reruns on the tv in the background…every time someone says “Hi Dick”, take a gulp.
Del Dolemonte on April 26, 2009 at 6:07 PM
Is it too soon to be planning the next round?
long_cat on April 26, 2009 at 6:08 PM
I have in fact been wheeled into an ER with no pulse and no blood pressure. That’s as close as one can get.
Del Dolemonte on April 26, 2009 at 5:57 PM
Got zapped too huh?
getalife on April 26, 2009 at 6:09 PM
It fell out while picking his ass with his new commemorative Obama pendant.
xblade on April 26, 2009 at 6:10 PM
My President, who is in the White House, Hallowed be thy name.
Thy time has come;. Your will be done in the urban areas as in the White House.
Give us a new car and a home to sleep in and forgive the Bushites who approved the waterboarding as we have forgiven them for giving us capitalism.
Please do not lead me into temptation to turn up my thermostat more than 72 degrees and deliver us from those evil Jews that ruin our lives.
For thine is the White House,and the power, and the glory, for ever and ever since you will be making law that you can run for however long you want to. Amen.
/getalife
deidre on April 26, 2009 at 6:10 PM
And she ran (bravely) all the way home where Grows Fins was waiting for her.
And then the wolf came to the house of sheet. And he huffed and he puffed, but then the wolf (Janet Napolitano) realized that this was a government housing project that belonged to ACORN employees, so she walked away and looked for a real Right Wing Extremist
Upstater85 on April 26, 2009 at 6:11 PM
I always have a shot of whiskey when Larry and his brother Darryl and his other brother Darryl show up.
Kini on April 26, 2009 at 6:13 PM
+100
Upstater85 on April 26, 2009 at 6:13 PM
Waterboarding is NOT TORTURE! If waterboarding WAS torture, it would be ILLEGAL under the Uniform Code of Military Justice which a MUCH higher standing of criteria than all Federal or State’s laws.
If waterboarding WAS torture, it could NOT be conducted in SERE under the UCMJ, that little fact escapes the leftists.
nelsonknows on April 26, 2009 at 6:13 PM
I guess we know how to get getalife to stop posting, haha!!
deidre on April 26, 2009 at 6:14 PM
Or at least drone her out! You should really save your posts… They were great.
Upstater85 on April 26, 2009 at 6:14 PM
What I find especially hilarious about our resident Leftists here waving the law around like a sacred cow is that they only believe in “legal decisions” when it suits them politically.
Hence, any “legal ruling” that would claim waterboarding is torture and/or torture is illegal is a sacred decision and evidence of brilliant legal minds.
But cite them an actual legal decision or document that they don’t agree with, and they simply say it’s irrelevant.
As a result, in their parallel universe the 1998 Federal Indictment of bin Laden that cites his working relationship doesn’t exist.
Likewise, the 2003 legal ruling that Iraq played a role in the 9/11 attacks was written by an “idiot Judge”. Only problem with that one is that said decision came from a Judge appointed by Bill Clinton.
Del Dolemonte on April 26, 2009 at 6:14 PM
deidre:
That was wonderful, but way too clever for getalife.
Terrye on April 26, 2009 at 6:15 PM
Yes, she’s still trying to get past the Thee’s and Thou’s
Upstater85 on April 26, 2009 at 6:16 PM
‘ELLO POLLY!!!!!
Testing! Testing! Testing! Testing!
This is your nine o’clock alarm call!
(thump!)
Now that’s what I call a dead parrot.
Loxodonta on April 26, 2009 at 6:16 PM
LOL… there ya go… expecting them to be reasonable or logical again…
or to even know the law…
Romeo13 on April 26, 2009 at 6:16 PM
Are you being deliberately obtuse, or are your reasoning powers somewhat limited? The enhanced interrogation techniques were vetted as to their legality. They were used to elicit intelligence. They were NOT used to extort confessions.
onlineanalyst on April 26, 2009 at 6:16 PM
Of course that show was all just a dream anyway.
Del Dolemonte on April 26, 2009 at 6:16 PM
I’m sure getalife has a box of Kleenex close by
Kini on April 26, 2009 at 6:16 PM
Best Series End EVAH!
Kini on April 26, 2009 at 6:17 PM
cons are silly but creative.
Perhaps use some of that creativity in showing some patriotism.
getalife on April 26, 2009 at 6:17 PM
Just wait until Obama’s socialized health care disaster kicks in. The third time may be it. That is unless you’re independently wealthy and will be able to travel.
darwin on April 26, 2009 at 6:18 PM
No, no….. No, ‘e’s stunned!
Loxodonta on April 26, 2009 at 6:18 PM
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