Liz Cheney vs. Norah O’Donnell: “The tactics are not torture”
posted at 2:45 pm on April 26, 2009 by Allahpundit
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A few days old but we’ve had a steady stream of requests for it. Hotline has the transcript; don’t quit before the end or you’ll miss her thoughts on Palin and Meghan McCain. Speaking of McCains, Maverick may differ with Cheney about whether waterboarding constitutes torture but they agree that a “truth commission” would be a very bad idea. A good question: “[Enhanded interrogation] was bad advice. But if you criminalize bad advice on the part of lawyers, how are you going to get people to serve, and what sort of precedent does that set for the future?”
Actually, here’s a better question: If we all know it’s going to happen anyway in certain circumstances, why not legalize it? Kathleen Parker, unsurprisingly, doesn’t get it:
In his book “Shouting Fire: Civil Liberties in a Turbulent Age,” Dershowitz proposes that since torture is a given under those certain circumstances, then “torture warrants” should be issued by a judge.
He is right that most of us would do whatever necessary to save our child, possibly even torture a kidnapper. Likewise, if we stumbled upon someone trying to harm a loved one, we would kill the attacker if necessary to stop him.
But those are both darkly impassioned environments. It is by the cool light of day that we devise our laws. And it is by that same light that we judge our actions.
The law would protect you if you had to kill an attacker to stop him from killing, which is to say, it’s those “darkly impassioned environments” that law is most concerned with. Why leave a CIA agent in legal limbo if, however likely or unlikely it may be, he finds himself with a detainee in a ticking-bomb scenario?
Do yourself a favor after you watch the clip. Go listen to the archived audio here. Three minutes.
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Why couldn’t Liz Cheney run for Pres?
Glenn Jericho on April 26, 2009 at 2:46 PM
Head of the RNC.
INC on April 26, 2009 at 2:47 PM
I’m still waiting for Sean Hannity to honor is waterboarding promise.
nice343 on April 26, 2009 at 2:48 PM
Simple solution to the question of torture.
The President, and ONLY the President, should be able to authorize torture, and only on a case by case individual basis.
Its an Executive Order, and comes with a PARDON for those who carry out his policy.
Create Legislation to make this part of the War Powers…
Romeo13 on April 26, 2009 at 2:51 PM
And since waterboarding is not torture. I suggest the police start using it on suspects they arrest.
nice343 on April 26, 2009 at 2:55 PM
The use of these interrogation methods is only questionable when used by a Republican administration. Had a democrat administration done this (and believe me they would have), there would be no outcry from the left … or right.
darwin on April 26, 2009 at 2:56 PM
wow, i like that liz cheney. i’m glad she’s with us.
waterboarding could be used on trolls, you say?
kelley in virginia on April 26, 2009 at 2:56 PM
Dont bring a journalist to a Cheney fight.
Palin/Cheney 2012.”Makes liberals and Jihadis cry”
the_nile on April 26, 2009 at 2:57 PM
Great! Now for my Question:
Is living in the current Presidency torture?
Just askin’…
ericdijon on April 26, 2009 at 2:57 PM
INC
Excellent suggestion, she would make a fabulous head of RNC. She should offer debating lessons to the rest of the public officials. She was brilliant.
msmveritas on April 26, 2009 at 2:57 PM
if anyone on this planet thinks for one minute that some “technique” that is arguably “torture” has NOT been authorized by a democrat administration, that someone is naive indeed.
kelley in virginia on April 26, 2009 at 2:57 PM
Zsa Zsa’s Puffington Host titles this:
“Liz Cheney Defends Father’s Torture Legacy”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/23/liz-cheney-defends-father_n_190759.html
Del Dolemonte on April 26, 2009 at 2:57 PM
Can we start with you? Each and every post of yours is a crime, and reading them is worse than beong waterboarded.
Del Dolemonte on April 26, 2009 at 2:59 PM
And since waterboarding is not torture. I suggest the police start using it on suspects they arrest.
nice343 on April 26, 2009 at 2:55 PM
Is standing in one spot for extended periods torture?
What about having someone scream in your face, torture?
Being confined to a room 23 hours a day, torture or not?
Bishop on April 26, 2009 at 2:59 PM
One of the things that folks don’t seem to want to admit.. is that the definition of torture HAS CHANGED.
Yelling at someone and demeaning them is considered torture under the Army Field Manual…
Making them stay in one position for long periods of time… is torture…
Making them do reptetitive actions… is now torture…
Demeaning them, like cutting all their hair off for non health reasons??? Torture…
And yet, every single one of these things is done on the first DAY of military boot camps…
The debate is not if there is a line between torture, and interogation… but where that line lies…
Romeo13 on April 26, 2009 at 3:00 PM
I bet Norah thought THAT was torture…
the_nile on April 26, 2009 at 3:02 PM
Don’t worry, it’ll never happen again. Obama has sufficiently frightened any CIA member from even contemplating the thought. You’ll never be able to get anyone to agree to do anything again except maybe get some tea or coffee for terrorists.
We now know that democrats will never do what’s necessary to protect America and her people.
Speaking of police … perhaps you missed the fact that Obama wants to do away with granting accused lawyers before police questioning. Yeah … those democrats, they sure are peachy keen. They love them some terrorists but our rights? Not so much …
darwin on April 26, 2009 at 3:02 PM
It should be called “Cheney tries to speak out”. She did an astonishingly good job, though, in correcting her interrogator’s attempts to fly unsubtantiated headlines as fact.
ProfessorMiao on April 26, 2009 at 3:03 PM
Problem is, O’Donnell was never trained as a journalist. She got a BA in Philosophy.
Her main claim to fame was falsely accusing Sarah Palin of calling O’bama “a terrorist” during the campaign last year.
Del Dolemonte on April 26, 2009 at 3:03 PM
The gop need to quit hiding and get on record for supporting torture. Enough with ones not in government.
They want to make it a political issue, so be it.
The military calls it torture and illegal.
Support the troops.
getalife on April 26, 2009 at 3:03 PM
Clarity, calm, intelligence, determination must be in the Cheney genetic code.
Wow.
katy on April 26, 2009 at 3:05 PM
Tough lady. This is a textbook example of preparation and presentation. Are any Republican leaders watching?
Arrrrrrrrgggghhhh.
eaglesdontflock on April 26, 2009 at 3:06 PM
Dork … military members going through survival school get the exact same thing done to them. Using your logic, we’re “torturing” our military.
You’re banned … go away.
darwin on April 26, 2009 at 3:06 PM
Can waterboarding be used in schools on kids who misbehave since it is not torture?
nice343 on April 26, 2009 at 3:06 PM
Norah got waterboarded by Liz Cheney and lived to tell about it.
Are the Cheney’s the Smartest Family in America, or what? Don’t mess with ‘em.
BigD on April 26, 2009 at 3:06 PM
Thank you for your opinion, Osama.
-Dave
Dave R. on April 26, 2009 at 3:06 PM
Finally, an intelligent AND articulate Republican. Well done Liz.
huckleberryfriend on April 26, 2009 at 3:08 PM
Is there anything but moldy hay between your ears?
eaglesdontflock on April 26, 2009 at 3:08 PM
More than that, most of what you have listed has been used by civilian police on criminal suspects and has been upheld as both lawful and constitutional for many, many years.
Tabris on April 26, 2009 at 3:08 PM
Right at the end there (when O’Donnell let Cheney talk) was just about all I needed to hear. Not to mention Cheney’s point about how if “Al-Qaeda captures an American they just cut his head off.” But, I guess that doesn’t count as torture, right?
jtownsley on April 26, 2009 at 3:08 PM
No, but it’s perfectly legal to use on nazis like you.
Blake on April 26, 2009 at 3:08 PM
Thanks, but not originally mine. Someone brought Liz up as a possibility for RNC chair half jokingly yesterday at BeJohnGalt and I thought it was a great idea. I wanted to bring it up here to see reactions.
Excellent suggestion on Liz teaching debate! It’s needed.
INC on April 26, 2009 at 3:08 PM
Cheney was excellent … however, it was all in vain for this was MSNBC. Let’s understand exactly who watches MSNBC … the people that like Olbermann. The people that believe Olbermann.
Everything Cheney said went in one ear and out the other … they only heard O’Donnel.
darwin on April 26, 2009 at 3:09 PM
Sarah Palin/ Liz Cheney 2012!
Liz is so much like her father: smart, articulate, quick on their feet, and they don’t take crap from dumb liberals.
She should run for office someday.
jencab on April 26, 2009 at 3:12 PM
You need a hobby…
RepubChica on April 26, 2009 at 3:12 PM
Can waterboarding be used in schools on kids who misbehave since it is not torture?
nice343 on April 26, 2009 at 3:06 PM
Would it be appropriate? Now I know you’re one of those with the glazed eyes, but can you see see how the circumstances between a misbehaving child and a criminal may call for different approaches?
Would you say that a child who is thought to be sneaking a calculator into class for a math test can be strip searched and their orifices probed?
Bishop on April 26, 2009 at 3:13 PM
fixed
Shay on April 26, 2009 at 3:13 PM
The empty suit you voted for in 2004 said the troops terrorized innocent Iraqis in the dead of night.
Now go back to bed, it’s your nap time.
Del Dolemonte on April 26, 2009 at 3:13 PM
I have to say Liz was impressive there. Nora loved to hear herself talk and it was funny to watch Liz try and interrupt her speech making.
Dash on April 26, 2009 at 3:15 PM
Norah O’Donnell was tasting her bloody teeth with that smackdown…oh, the prissy faux outrage. Hitting rewind, then I gotta bounce.
RepubChica on April 26, 2009 at 3:15 PM
Still waiting for your cite that the US Coast Guard called it torture. You promised to provide me with such a cite last night, then ran away.
Del Dolemonte on April 26, 2009 at 3:15 PM
Liz Cheney is brilliant, reasoned, calm, and eloquent. She made Nora O’Donnell look and sound like a hysterical, bleeding-heart parrot. “Nora, you’re reading a headline from an AP story…” Priceless!
pannw on April 26, 2009 at 3:15 PM
Cons want Americans (like the journalists in Iran and North Korea) and the troops legally tortured.
Cons are evil.
getalife on April 26, 2009 at 3:16 PM
getalife on April 26, 2009 at 3:03 PM
Odd, strange, weird and sorta funny: This poster banned itself a few days ago on a thread discussing this very same issue.
It lied.
Bishop on April 26, 2009 at 3:16 PM
I suggest a child who steals a calculator be waterboarded. After all it is not torture!!!
nice343 on April 26, 2009 at 3:17 PM
I remember how liberals “supported the troops” by calling them racist morons who were too stupid to vote for Kerry. They can keep that support.
Speedwagon82 on April 26, 2009 at 3:18 PM
Obama has maneuvered the GOP into making a vocal and hearty defense of using torture. I’m sorry, but thats not a good look. Why? Because the average American is decent human being and doesn’t like the idea of their government engaging in the routine brutalization of human beings. We expect the Jack Bauer’s of the world to be out there to prevent the release of that nasty biological or nuclear WMD in an American city. If some fingers gotta get broke to make it happen, so be it. BUT; we don’t want to see it or know about it AND we give some leeway in an emergency. People seem to forget that those scenarios we love to watch on 24 Monday nights are events playing out over the course of 24 hours. Thats what we imagine happens in an emergency and we’re a practical people. You gotta do what you gotta do.
But what Americans are not down for is the bureaucratization of torture. We’re not down for the routine imposition of pain and suffering on people, even terrorist suspects, as our default methodology for getting information. And what the GOP defenders of the use of torture don’t really seem to get is that the average American thinks thats what they are for. Hayden in his critique of Obama on Fox didn’t qualify the use of torture at all. He just kept arguing for or it to be retained as a technique. Didn’t say in the event of emergency or under proper circumstances. He just argued that we should be allowed to torture. Their in lies the evil genius behind Obama’s release of the memos. He’s got the GOP screaming at the top of their lungs, “we want to torture people, and Obama won’t let us”.
I assume the government utilizes torture in emergency situations where its warranted and possibly when its not. I subscribe to the Milt Beardon position on torture: If a guy knows where a dirty bomb is hidden that’s going to go off in a Marriott, put me in a room with him and I’ll find out. But don’t codify that. Just let me break the law..
Now, here’s the problem. This is not how the real world works. The problem with torture — as with other exceptional measures — is that it is useful, at best, in extraordinary situations. The problem with all such techniques in the hands of bureaucracies is that the extraordinary in due course becomes the routine, and torture as a desperate stopgap measure (its position following 9/11) becomes a routine part of the intelligence interrogator’s tool kit.
Political Season on April 26, 2009 at 3:18 PM
Thank you.
John the Libertarian on April 26, 2009 at 3:19 PM
getalife, they are going to torture our troops no matter what we do. Are you really too stupid to get that?
Speedwagon82 on April 26, 2009 at 3:19 PM
This is O/T because I haven’t watched the video yet but has anyone mentioned that Sheriff Arpaio is not “stalking” Megan McCain on Twitter. I believe his quote is “I wouldn’t know a Twitter from a Twix.” Someone has probably already pointed this out and I missed it but the sheriff doesn’t need any more bad press.
Cindy Munford on April 26, 2009 at 3:20 PM
I suggest a child who steals a calculator be waterboarded. After all it is not torture!!!
nice343 on April 26, 2009 at 3:17 PM
Since prisoners in our penal system can be forced to strip and have their orifices probed if it’s thought they are concealing contraband, that isn’t torture either.
With your logic, you can then agree that children sneaking calculators into their math class should be subject to the same treatment?
Bishop on April 26, 2009 at 3:21 PM
Hyperbole. Nonsense. By your logic: Since it’s legal to burn leaves, can we burn them inside a classroom full of kids?
*yawn*
John the Libertarian on April 26, 2009 at 3:21 PM
Policy. Richard Posner had an interesting take on it.
Repurblican on April 26, 2009 at 3:21 PM
Are you one of those individuals that think spanking your kid is torture too?
deidre on April 26, 2009 at 3:22 PM
I banned myself in protest of torture.
But never said for how long.
America does not torture.
Love it or leave it.
getalife on April 26, 2009 at 3:23 PM
So anything that isn’t defined as “torture” can be used on a child? Well, in that case … I say taser the little imp for a first offense, 30 minutes in a tear gas room for the second and limb removal for the third. By the way, limb removal is defined as “punishment” (see Saudi Arabia, and as you know we must conform to other cultures) due to it’s singular use.
darwin on April 26, 2009 at 3:24 PM
That’s good stuff.
Dash on April 26, 2009 at 3:25 PM
YOU ARE TORTURE. For the love of pete, how much medication must a human ingest to express itself as ignorantly and inarticulately as you do.
daesleeper on April 26, 2009 at 3:26 PM
sez you
John the Libertarian on April 26, 2009 at 3:26 PM
Since you know nothing of America, and obviously don’t love it … I’ll pay for your one way air fare anywhere you want to go. The only stipulation is you surrender your passport.
Deal?
Oh, btw the way … what’s your position on Obama’s expanded rendition program? You know, the program where we outsource “torture”? Only they do quite a bit more than waterboarding.
darwin on April 26, 2009 at 3:27 PM
c’mon guys, getalife and others have a right to be heard. Can we stop the name calling?
John the Libertarian on April 26, 2009 at 3:27 PM
The two journalists that North Korea captured have no one to blame but themselves-they were caught red-handed trying to sneak into the country. The South Korean minister who helped them organize their trip repeatedly warned them not to go near the border, and they ignored his advice.
By the way, did you know that they both work for the empty suit you voted for in 2000, Algore?
Poor Al…he lost that election not because of what happened in Florida, but because he was rejected by the voters of his own home state. That must really suck.
Del Dolemonte on April 26, 2009 at 3:28 PM
Ah… another of the Historical Illiterates…
America has tortured people time and again… especialy if you define torture by todays Lefty standards…
but please, don’t let historical fact stand in the way of your mindless drivel…
Romeo13 on April 26, 2009 at 3:29 PM
So torture is legal?
darwin on April 26, 2009 at 3:32 PM
Where should she have been, Fox?
I’d argue that she was exactly where she should be. She is just the kind of person we need in places that aren’t letting her simply preach to the choir. There are a lot of people who buy into the notion that Fox News is a conservative propaganda network, because that’s the story that has been beaten into their heads since Fox first came on air. They simply don’t know any better, and so they stick with the real propagandist channels, but Cheney likely put questions in at least a few minds with the statements about wondering why Blair changed his position, etc… With well spoken representatives of reason like Liz Cheney, maybe some of them will come around.
I have young children. I have to believe there is hope (the real kind).
pannw on April 26, 2009 at 3:32 PM
Is it odd to anyone else that the people who have spent most of their adult lives saying that the U.S. sucks are now worried that the this information keeps the U.S. from looking like a beacon of truth and hope. They have never felt the U.S. was such a beacon and have denigrated others who have. I guess time will tell but I think the sensibilities are much more bruised then the average citizen.
Cindy Munford on April 26, 2009 at 3:33 PM
darwin on April 26, 2009 at 3:32 PM
cons think so but the military said no.
Support the troops.
America does not torture anymore.
Love it or leave it.
getalife on April 26, 2009 at 3:34 PM
Getalife is right American does not torture. Waterboarding is not torture.
Cindy Munford on April 26, 2009 at 3:34 PM
Point taken. My point was the great majority of MSNBC viewers have no minds to change.
darwin on April 26, 2009 at 3:35 PM
I’ll give you a dollar if you promise to finish high school.
darwin on April 26, 2009 at 3:36 PM
Sometimes it’s very interesting to see how the comments fall next to each other!
INC on April 26, 2009 at 3:36 PM
She is her father’s daughter. He must be so proud! (wipes tear)
thomasaur on April 26, 2009 at 3:37 PM
not only do i worship at dick cheney’s feet, he’s got a great wife, lynn cheney & now i get to see his whiz of a daughter liz.
kelley in virginia on April 26, 2009 at 3:38 PM
blatantblue on April 26, 2009 at 3:40 PM
I know. I have posted something and someone has pretty much said the same thing and the times are the same. Spooky? More then likely two people with a keen sense of the obvious.
Cindy Munford on April 26, 2009 at 3:40 PM
blatantblue on April 26, 2009 at 3:41 PM
Your dramatic leaving of this site lasted, like, a day.
You are a liar. Straight up.
I am certain that lots of good people do not bother posting here, because of the continual irritation of your presence. You spend your days taking your petty, pestiferous little jabs at thoughtful posters with witless, facile always-brief counterremarks. You could not make a thoroughly detailed argument if you tried.
I myself am staying away (and I’m sure others are too) until someone who runs this place grabs a clue and takes the trash out.
Edouard on April 26, 2009 at 3:41 PM
Self defense.
National defense.
maverick muse on April 26, 2009 at 3:42 PM
*sigh* I wish I could argue with that point. But I can still hope for the minority of them, right?
pannw on April 26, 2009 at 3:43 PM
Listening to anything they do goes, including partial birth abortion, liberals preen about how moral they are because they prefer the comfort of terrorists to the safety of ordinary citizens, is indeed torture.
Basilsbest on April 26, 2009 at 3:44 PM
A Nixon Republican…haven’t seen one of those in years…
Shay on April 26, 2009 at 3:44 PM
No but if the kid knew information about your candy ass about to be blown up with thousands others, Im sure you’d be fetching the pitchers of water, candy ass.
malkinmania on April 26, 2009 at 3:44 PM
Ewwww…
Can we see a Liz Cheney vs. Megain McCain “debate”?
It would be really amusing after Mccain’s comments on VP Cheney,
Romeo13 on April 26, 2009 at 3:44 PM
may b
i wil channil sum of mi inner rosie:
blatantblue on April 26, 2009 at 3:46 PM
The CIC has a moral duty to end a war as quickly and with as little loss of life as possible. Not to have waterboarded KSM, and his two cohorts, would have been a dereliction of that duty.
Basilsbest on April 26, 2009 at 3:47 PM
you know, when you are down & troubled, just think with glee about that imaginary debate between dick cheney & barack obambi. that’s a real pick me up!
or liz cheney. or lynn cheney. or the other daughter–what is her name?
kelley in virginia on April 26, 2009 at 3:47 PM
The same people crying for the “tortured” terrorists are the same ilk that think it’s torture to make kids keep score because someone will actually lose. They are wimps and are trying to create, if they have not already succeeded, into making us an entire nation of wimps.
SouthernGent on April 26, 2009 at 3:48 PM
basilsbest: i think you hit the nail on the head.
kelley in virginia on April 26, 2009 at 3:48 PM
I agree, wish washy Republicans who go on these shows at MSNBC and CNN ought to take note as to how Ms. Cheney handled a clearly hostile (and not very bright) reporter. She did it without groveling, snarling or trying to find common ground with her inquisitor.
Hilts on April 26, 2009 at 3:50 PM
yes … and therefore easily conquered and taken over.
darwin on April 26, 2009 at 3:50 PM
Of course. I think there are a few that can think for themselves (I hope).
darwin on April 26, 2009 at 3:51 PM
I was really impressed with Liz Cheney. She sure stood up to that silly obnoxious preening reporter.
Terrye on April 26, 2009 at 3:52 PM
getalife:
liar.
Terrye on April 26, 2009 at 3:53 PM
It will get lower.
Perhaps dick is getting revenge for getting dumped on by his party in the last election.
He is killing your party cons.
Dump him.
getalife on April 26, 2009 at 3:53 PM
Cheney performed exceptionally well against O’Donnell who is clearly an unprofessional partisan. The only thing she missed is the claim that we prosecuted Japanese soldiers for waterboarding – as if the water torture punishment to which they subjected uniformed soldiers could be compared with the doctor supervised information seeking waterboarding of the mastermind of 9/11.
Basilsbest on April 26, 2009 at 3:53 PM
I’m for it when (like someone previously suggested) Olby performs a live abortion on TV during primetime. You could have Sean go first, then Olby would back out because he’s a limp-wristed coward and knows abortion is murder.
Sapwolf on April 26, 2009 at 3:57 PM
Do you consider jabbing a pointed object into the base of a 8 or 9 month old infant torture?
Do you consider ripping an infant apart while still in the womb torture?
Whom do you sympathize with more … an Islamic butcher or a baby?
darwin on April 26, 2009 at 3:57 PM
On this issue, Liz Cheney is the most articulate of all Republicans I’ve heard, so I agree. Of course, I haven’t see her talk about any other issues, but this was an incredibly good performance against a determined and hostile liberal “host.”
Loxodonta on April 26, 2009 at 3:59 PM
It’s been really fun watching a pathetic amateur like Barry get schooled by Cheney. And seeing Nancy soil herself and lie about it is bonus.
They are pathetic losers.
Christien on April 26, 2009 at 4:00 PM
darwin on April 26, 2009 at 3:57 PM
Ah, the abortion card.
Reaching.
getalife on April 26, 2009 at 4:00 PM
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