Video: Jackass cop arrests reporter for no reason
posted at 5:55 pm on April 24, 2009 by Allahpundit
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To cleanse the palate, think of this as “the taser vid that wasn’t.” You know he wants to use the taser, you know he’s thinking of using the taser — but the reporter simply never gives him a pretext to do so. I’m almost disappointed: There’s no thread on HA so fun as when I post a clip of police misbehavior and a few commenters inevitably show up to defend the cop, no matter how horribly or moronically he’s acting.
I’m looking forward to finding out how this guy’s getting a bad rap. He was put on desk duty after the footage aired, you’ll be pleased to know.
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Here is my post from earlier, yes that is a reasonable argument in a city that is 75% Hispanic.
I love the culture and people here on the border, but if you are white, non-spanish speaking, you are the racist, despite the fact that you are the minority.
Susanboo on April 25, 2009 at 12:07 AM
With all this statist talk, I don’t suppose you have been reading Mark Levin’s new book have you?
NeverLiberal on April 25, 2009 at 12:07 AM
How would you act if no camera was rolling?
coldshot on April 25, 2009 at 12:07 AM
Yes, why promote traffic safety when the cops can be generating revenue and overtime issuing tickets?
If their job is so shitty, how come they don’t quit? Maybe it’s because they like carrying a badge and a gun and get off on telling folks what to do.
I’m thinking about that shooting in NY when that Vietnamese immigrant killed 13 people. The perp had shot himself but the brave, brave police officers waited an hour before entering the building, thereby letting people who could have been saved bleed out and die.
The most important things to cops are their salaries and pensions. After that comes cop safety. They’re far more concerned with protecting themselves than they are in protecting you, what they are actually paid to do. They mock the phrase “to protect and serve”.
rokemronnie on April 25, 2009 at 12:10 AM
Hmmm….
I have to say up until the cop flips out with the “stop resisting” stuff, the cop was almost entirely in the right. The cop ordered you to leave, you leave… You don’t be argumentative, saying your cameraman can “shoot if he wants to”. He just politely go back to your vehicle, keep filming if you want, and then try to find a location the cop is okay with you being at. Perhaps ask the cop.
BUT, when the cop loses it and starts screaming and arrests them, he turns in to the “bad guy”. You have to at least give them a chance to leave.
Of course, as always, as a “give the cop the benefit of the doubt” type of guy, I have to wonder what happened right before the footage started.
When you see the entire incident, I’ve had no problem saying the cop was in the wrong, AP, but this one is a little less cut and dry, IMO.
RightWinged on April 25, 2009 at 12:10 AM
The point is that stating “there is a risk of death” is an absurd reason, excuse, whatever. It is laughable in fact. However, this is the most common defense of police officers being abusive or unprofessional.
About a year ago in my city cops killed a man for an open container violation. They slammed his head into the pavement while arresting him and it ended his life. Many of the people writing into to the local paper used this “Well, they put their lives on the line!” garbage reason. It makes me want to vomit.
brogers on April 25, 2009 at 12:10 AM
coldshot on April 25, 2009 at 12:07 AM
Meh.
If no cameras were rolling, hopefully I have enough morals and decency to always do what is right.
But if I’m a loon, that camera’s sure going to give me second thoughts knowing it’s rolling while I push this smartass reporter around.
Just saying. It took a lot of effort to climb that fence, tell the reporter off, and then rush after him even after he’s going toward the vehicle…
All the while the camera is rolling.
And then smash goes the camera.
Not too bright, eh?
12thMonkey on April 25, 2009 at 12:12 AM
No but I’m a fan. I think he’s the most intelligent and thoughtful conservative on the radio. No disrespect to Prager, Medved and Hewitt who are certainly no dummies, but Levin usually hits the nail right on the head.
Imagine a debate between Olbermann and Levin. Olbermann would be soiling himself.
rokemronnie on April 25, 2009 at 12:12 AM
My name is Ronnie Schreiber and I live in Oak Park, Michigan. What’s your name and city.
rokemronnie on April 25, 2009 at 12:15 AM
I am telling you guys, this cop is just a machismo jerk. He was probably hot, (I think it was 90 degrees the day this occurred), there were a lot of people out there and the guys with the mike and the camera looked like a good target for him to take his frustration out on. I don’t think this is typical of the police in this City, but again, Hispanic men do not like to argue with someone they perceive to be below them.
Susanboo on April 25, 2009 at 12:15 AM
Oh my.
Ugly on April 25, 2009 at 12:17 AM
C’mon how can anyone defend this abusive cop.
The reporter was leaving! and it was his words, “He has the right to shoot whatever he wants” from the reporter than enraged this pathetic “officer”.
Not to mention, why didn’t the officer go after any other bystander? why?
This was false imprisoment, wrongful arrest, violation of these individuals civil rights, criminal damage to property…i mean the list goes on and on!
this cop deserves to be stripped of his pention, his badge, his dignity, etc.
This is the type of cop that gives good cops a bad name. This is the type fo cop that empowers morons like Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, etc.
As a Conservative, I 100% hope that the full force of the law falls upon this abusive, disgusting cop.
Cpt. Kirk on April 25, 2009 at 12:19 AM
So now we don’t only have to obey but we have to do it with a smile on our faces. Yessir massa police officer.
rokemronnie on April 25, 2009 at 12:19 AM
Agreed.
coldshot on April 25, 2009 at 12:20 AM
I know, I was just giving you a hard time.
NeverLiberal on April 25, 2009 at 12:20 AM
LOL
coldshot on April 25, 2009 at 12:20 AM
I think (not sure), you can click my nick and eventually you’ll find me.
Ugly on April 25, 2009 at 12:21 AM
How about an article how police officers regularly give their fellow officers “professional courtesy” on traffic stops? How about an article how police officers who catch their fellow cops DUI give them a ride home, not a ride to the pokey?
Oh, and before the cop apologists tell us that all professions have professional courtesy so why should cops be any different, I’ll just point out that there’s a word for giving police special privileges, it’s called corruption. My physician doesn’t have the power of the state to take my property and my liberty so I don’t really care if he and his veterinarian barter services.
rokemronnie on April 25, 2009 at 12:22 AM
If you wanna read a really good book (I am reading it now) then read Whittaker Chamber’s book, “Witness.” It is awesomely awesome. Its a classic. I assume you know who Whittaker Chambers is? (If you don’t I would be glad to tell you)
NeverLiberal on April 25, 2009 at 12:24 AM
Lets not call the guy a jackass. We didnt see the whole thing. And if you want to get technical about it, pedestrians are not allowed on Texas interstate highways and if your given a lawful order, which is to get off the highway, you best do it. News media or anyone else can not interfere with accident or criminal investigations and should had left the FIRST time he was told to leave the scene.
I say we wait for the investigation to complete then make judgment.
tx2654 on April 25, 2009 at 12:24 AM
There are three or four other cars parked on the side of the highway, so don’t try the “hes obstructing the scene of the accident” crap.
Poncharello flipped out when the reporter told him the cameraman could shoot if he wanted to, as he was WALKING AWAY from the scene. But no… Mr. Machismo had to make it worse.
Screw him.
cannonball on April 25, 2009 at 12:25 AM
BZZZZZzzzzzzzzz humm
Ugly on April 25, 2009 at 12:25 AM
Hey Duke Boy… I just typed that transcript straight from the video. Show me where I’m wrong, or stop sucking cop d1ck. Are you a police officer too? That’s the only reason anyone can defend such pisspoor behavior.
See my post above. If there’s something I’ve missed in the transcript, show me.
cannonball on April 24, 2009 at 11:48 PM
Yep. I am a cop. I’m also not the one resorting to profanity and general bufoonery with his panties in a bunch. That be you, homie.
Here’s what you don’t see because you’re focusing on what the television station wants you to see:
1. We’re not seeing the beginning of the incident, some of which was reported in the El Paso paper:
That’s the violation of the law I linked to above. The reporter was given the order to leave. He doesn’t comply, he says that he wants to interview “one more person.” At that point, the reporter is wrong according to the laws duly enacted by the elected reps in Texas.
2. You can’t say that the reporter went straight to the truck and stays there because the camera turns to face the officer, leaving the reporter out of frame for several seconds. It’s about 5 seconds by my count. In fact, at 0:14, the officer starts to head back to the fence and then comes back to the reporter.
3. Not to back up too far, but you apparently missed the jump cut in the first couple of seconds of the clip. The cop’s on one side of the fence and all of a sudden he’s on top of it and the cameraman is 8- 10 feet away from where he was. Clearly, an order to leave had been given at least once before the officer started across the fence and we’re missing a few seconds as the fence was crossed. What was said then? You don’t know and neither do I.
4. The cameraman was given a direct order as well to leave around 1:10. He chose to stay and film. He violated the law as linked above.
5. The scene is still clearly active. Once the camera falls on the ground, you can see the firemen working on someone/ something pretty vigorously. More support that the order for the reporter and cameraman to move is not “manifestly unreasonable.”
Could the officer have handled his temper better? Yes. His tactics sucked too. He should have had both of the reporter’s hands cuffed a lot quicker upon making first contact. Instead he did the “felony hokey- pokey” with the guy for too long, allowing the cameraman to film the show.
But the bigger issue is not rudeness on the part of the officer or the reporter. The issue is whether or not the arrest was legal. It was.
Dukeboy01 on April 25, 2009 at 12:28 AM
I was once told by a veteran state trooper about what happens when a cop dies. Everyone cries and wails, the whole area shows up for his funeral, then he is buried. Thats it. No one checks in on his widow, no one teaches his kid to ride a bike or play baseball. He is mourned then forgotten.
The point he was trying to make is that you do your best to protect others but at the end of the day make sure you go home alive. So yes, his life is more important to him than yours, as it should be.
Really? It happened just like that? They found a man with an open container and killed him? Wow, your city police are hard core.
/sarc
SnakeintheGrass on April 25, 2009 at 12:29 AM
Did you perhaps mean ‘insinuation’ rather than ‘implication’?
Maybe? Kinda? Sorta?
Well, no matter. As Judge Judge Elihu Smails once said, “The world needs ditch diggers too.”
For what Police Officers routinely do, they’re only just adequately paid. For what they might have to do or might have done to them, they will never be paid enough.
And if his department is like most P.D.’s, promotions are not based on ’seniority’, or ‘merit’ for that matter.
By and large, Police department promotions are politically based with a smidgen of who kissed ass most often and most often kissed the correct ass(es) from early in their career. Or, along the same vein, if you picked the correct buddy pals early in your career, which is essentially the same thing. Other than that you just need to be able to read and comprehend the Englih language so you can approve reports, and you have to be able to sign time-sheets and approve time-off requests, and investigate citizen complaints against your subordinates without playing favorites. Except for the ‘teacher’s pets’, in which case I refer you back to the first sentence of this paragraph.
However, one exception to the rule is the ‘affirmitive action promotion’. In which case those promoted under that umbrella usually have to get one year of field supervison under their belt due to binding MOA requirements, then they rarely see the light of day except when they leave their cubicle to take in some lunch off site because they’re usually deeply incompetent and tend to get their officers hurt or even killed if they stay in the field.
If you knew what the hell you were talking about, even in the slightest, you would certainly know all that well enough already.
SilverStar830 on April 25, 2009 at 12:29 AM
I lived in Dallas for 25 years and the police there were profesionals, they did the job (there are always exceptions). But since moved to San Antonio, I’ve noticed that the cops here suck. This is based on a sample set of more than one. I’ve had several interactions with them, when seeking assistance, and they have sucked at their job. I actually have video of them watching people launch fireworks on July 4th during a burn ban. I called to get them to stop, the police officer said “what do you want me to do? We can’t arrest them all.” NO, but you can tell them to stop before they set the neighborhood on fire, dumbass.
Maybe they only suck in cities where Hispanics are in the majority? (they are 58% of the populating in San Antonio.) Maybe that Mexican law enforcement culture is seeping in along with the illegals?
cannonball on April 25, 2009 at 12:30 AM
Not police. I’m an American so I’m allergic to authorities in general.
rokemronnie on April 25, 2009 at 12:31 AM
I agree with you on that. I wonder if the numerous vehicles parked in front of and behind the reporters truck were told to leave also? I noticed that the automobile directly in front of the reporters truck had what appear to be two youngsters standing next to it watching the accident scene. I hope the Officer was just as concerned about their and others safety.
coldshot on April 25, 2009 at 12:38 AM
And you call someone else a coward.
rokemronnie on April 25, 2009 at 12:38 AM
Thats more than what they do for most other vocations (including the military). I was driving through Pittsburgh when they had the funeral service for those three cops. They had the whole highway shut down and there were police cars lined up with their lights on as far as the eye can see. I don’t remember them doing anything like this for the soldiers from Pittsburgh who died in Iraq.
The officer’s families from Pittsburgh receive aid from the fallen hero’s fund. It doesn’t make up for the loss but it is not exactly like the family is neglected either.
NeverLiberal on April 25, 2009 at 12:40 AM
Alger Hiss was indeed a spy.
rokemronnie on April 25, 2009 at 12:40 AM
Tactically, that’s one of the things he did right. What you call “flipping out with the stop resisting stuff,” we call “issuing loud, repetitive verbal commands.” That’s a textbook example of reverting to training in a stressful situation.
Dukeboy01 on April 25, 2009 at 12:41 AM
So then you have read it?
NeverLiberal on April 25, 2009 at 12:45 AM
Nope. You’re just the one trying to look cool by using black patois. You’re also expressing typical cop disdain for people who aren’t “on the job”.
I wonder, when a cop is accused of a crime are you as diligent in justifying those who arrest him or do you look for things that mitigate his guilt?
How do you honestly feel about the cops who work for internal affairs?
Have you ever given a fellow officer “professional courtesy” on a traffic stop?
Do you know any officers who are active alcoholics or drug abusers?
rokemronnie on April 25, 2009 at 12:46 AM
If this was a stressful situation for this Officer then a desk job might be his best option.
I think that it might have been even more stressful for the reporter being as he was unarmed.
coldshot on April 25, 2009 at 12:48 AM
Sorry but he took an oath that obligates him to put my life first.
Doctors take an oath to do no harm. Lawyers’ professional ethics prohibit them from putting their own interests above those of their clients.
Cops take an oath to serve and protect the public but it seems that they don’t serve anyone but themselves (or maybe their superior officers) and believe that protecting cops is more important than protecting civilians. After all, the cops only have guns and SWAT equipment.
rokemronnie on April 25, 2009 at 12:50 AM
I am amused at how Duke Boy, with great authority, lists all the laws the journalists supposedly broke and how they deserved to be arrested. Is that why the policeman is on leave and this video is all over the internet?
It’s ironic that you talk about what we ‘didn’t see’ yet you fail to see how he is abusing his authority clearly on the video. Answer me this:
How come cops who are trained to spot wrong doings are totally blind if it is a cop in the wrong?
sirmyth on April 25, 2009 at 12:50 AM
As was pointed out in our CCW class, the police are under no obligation to protect you, their obligation is to protect society. If they are reasonably intelligent, they also view their job as to protect society and survive themselves. Thus, in the case of violent crimes, they investigate a scene, obtain evidence, identify perpetrators and if they can’t ID a perp, they have to wait until the next crime is committed to get more evidence. So, in the case you cite above, were the police aware that the perp had shot himself? If not, then they weren’t going to take a chance on getting shot — they weren’t going to let him escape, they had the tactical advantage there, but not if they entered the building. So, even by taking the actions they did, they are still “protecting society”, it’s just unfortunate from their standpoint that the victims of that one incident weren’t able to be saved.
AZfederalist on April 25, 2009 at 12:51 AM
You may have done well on your cop tests but you’re not as smart as you think you are. Implication is grammatically and syntactically correct. Please explain how it isn’t correct.
You can say the same about hookers.
The rest of your post merely confirms that most PDs are staffed by incompetents and people who practice corruption as a way of life (all that nepotism and good old boy network stuff is corruption). They have little interest in serving the public and even less interest in protecting them.
rokemronnie on April 25, 2009 at 12:56 AM
No, he did not and noe it dosent. How do I know that? Because I am a cop and never once did I say I would arbitrarily sacrifice my life for another. Police are sworn to uphold the law. Getting killed to protect you is not part of that.
SnakeintheGrass on April 25, 2009 at 1:00 AM
That is correct. They slammed his head into the pavement and broke his neck.
For an open container.
http://www.news4jax.com/news/3982655/detail.html
It also includes a few other incidents. Did you think I just made it up? Your sarcasm isn’t appreciated. I don’t think it’s funny to joke about a man being killed during an arrest for an open container.
brogers on April 25, 2009 at 1:04 AM
Ah, I see you’re a cop. No wonder you have such an attitude…
brogers on April 25, 2009 at 1:06 AM
Like I said, I doubt that Duke Boy starts looking up state statutes that justify the arrest of a fellow officer. There are police officers arrested every single day for crimes as serious as murder. Cops like Duke Boy, Silver Star and Logis would rather not discuss those cases. It’s way more fun to talk about idiot reporters than rogue cops, right?
Speaking of Duke, hey Duke Boy, how do you think the Durham police performed in the lacrosse team rape case?
rokemronnie on April 25, 2009 at 1:06 AM
And I dont think its funny to say an officer murdered a man for having an open container. I have tangled with enough drunks to know that probably wasnt the whole story.
SnakeintheGrass on April 25, 2009 at 1:10 AM
Now it’s gettin’ nasty.
coldshot on April 25, 2009 at 1:10 AM
This is laughable, as I have mentioned before. Plenty of jobs are harsher, pay a fraction of what cops get, and have much higher fatality and injury rates. Indeed, the construction workers who build police stations endure harsher conditions, less pay, pensions not worthy of comparison, and much higher injury and fatality rates.
brogers on April 25, 2009 at 1:12 AM
Ah, I see you hate cops. No wonder you have such an attitude.
Its fun being dismissive, isnt it?
SnakeintheGrass on April 25, 2009 at 1:13 AM
Excuse my interruption. I have been following this debate quietly for some time. You have made several very good points about specific problems which I hope and believe are representative of a small minority of police. However this comment seems a great over-generalization. Do you really mean to paint all officers as putting themselves and one another above serving and protecting the public?
Loxodonta on April 25, 2009 at 1:14 AM
Glad you were on the scene to make that determination, detective. I’ll try to avoid facts and just assume things like you next time.
Let me try it.
A man got his neck broken by police for an open container. I’m sure the officer was justified, right? Oh, and the cop was “putting his life on the line” for us while ending the man’s life too.
brogers on April 25, 2009 at 1:15 AM
How do you feel about a man hitting another man in the eye with a nightstick while he is on the ground with his hands cuffed behind his back? Hitting him so hard that his eye has to be pushed back into his eye socket?
coldshot on April 25, 2009 at 1:15 AM
So you are saying that LEOs are under no obligation to take risks that may endanger them?
When your superior officer orders you into a dangerous situation do you tell him that you never took an oath to sacrifice your life for others? I’d enjoy watching their reaction as they ask for your badge and gun.
Let me ask you since you wouldn’t endanger your life to save a civilian. Would you risk your life to save a fellow officer? If so, why is his life more valuable than mine?
If it’s because he might have to have your back someday or because of a sense of camaraderie, well than that’s a pretty selfish attitude and has nothing to do with protecting the public.
rokemronnie on April 25, 2009 at 1:17 AM
I like the cops that arrest or fire the cops who abuse their power and break the laws they are supposed to enforce. Those cops are the real heroes.
sirmyth on April 25, 2009 at 1:17 AM
Do us all a favor an GTFO
Ugly on April 25, 2009 at 1:17 AM
When it’s cops doing the killing and the joking they think it’s a hoot.
rokemronnie on April 25, 2009 at 1:19 AM
I stated an occurrence in my community. You then proceed to accuse me of lying, essentially. This was your attempt to defend a fellow police officer. It is quite common for police to defend each other regardless of how wrong they are. This is the attitude I referenced.
I’ve now made sarcastic comments after you’ve accused me of being a liar with your own sarcasm. I don’t think I showed any type of attitude, simply presented facts, up to that point.
brogers on April 25, 2009 at 1:19 AM
You should know. You and your fellow law exploitation officers are pretty dismissive of anyone not on the job.
rokemronnie on April 25, 2009 at 1:20 AM
Or I could be like you and automatically assume that a cop broke a man’s neck for having an open container, end of story.
It seems to me you are passing judgement without all the facts. I did not say the officer involved did nothing wrong because I have no evidence to prove either way.
If it happened exactly like that with no other circumstances? Excessive force. Is there a point to that?
SnakeintheGrass on April 25, 2009 at 1:20 AM
Let’s just get this out on the table. We have an epidemic of very bad cops with an arsenal of very bad laws giving them too much power!
We need the good cops more than ever to protect us from the thugs with badges as much as the ones without. My friend is a cop and he told me he has so many aways to arrest any person he sees if he wants. If he followed me for 10 minutes he could come up with a good enough reason to haul me in. I make sure I stay on his good side!
sirmyth on April 25, 2009 at 1:21 AM
I just wondered if you thought it might be possible for an Officer to do wrong. Do you think this Officer should be punished just I would be for the same offense?
coldshot on April 25, 2009 at 1:24 AM
Have any of the cops posting here said the above statement is inaccurate? They’ve had plenty of opportunity to rebut my remark.
I don’t think all officers are like that. As I said before about 20% of cops are exactly the kind of people we want enforcing the law. The remainder are split between space taking incompetents and outright bad cops.
rokemronnie on April 25, 2009 at 1:24 AM
If it is a situation that will obviously get me killed (IE tackle that man firing a full auto rifle down a hall way) I would tell him to stuff it. Fortunately my superiors are not that stupid.
SnakeintheGrass on April 25, 2009 at 1:24 AM
More on this particular story, where you, before even knowing one single thing about it, accused me of misrepresenting it.
The officer resigned after this incident, so it would seem he acknowledges his guilt.
brogers on April 25, 2009 at 1:25 AM
Hey rokem, if you’ve never seen anybody challenge a cop by getting in his face with “try and make me,” then you need to get out more.
“As far as you’re concerned, whatever a cop does is safe and right”
Nice assumption. How old are you, anyway?
warbaby on April 25, 2009 at 1:26 AM
Thanks for your response. I hope you’re wrong about those percentages.
Loxodonta on April 25, 2009 at 1:26 AM
and i’m off to bed.
brogers on April 25, 2009 at 1:27 AM
Of course an officer can do wrong. I have actually reported a few myself. And yes, in that instance, with no other circumstances he should be punished.
I have had plenty of people tell me that officer so-and-so did such-and-such. I always tell them I cant say weather that officer was right or wrong because, even with their side, I dont know the whole story.
SnakeintheGrass on April 25, 2009 at 1:29 AM
You’re not following the script. It’s the cop haters who are allegedly vulgar and rude.
Typical coward. You can’t respond in a substantive manner to our criticisms so you want us to go away. Not unlike a cop challenged by a civilian.
Cops see no reason to ever change police procedure. They certainly don’t use empirical data when developing procedures. If a civilian questions policy in an appropriate way they get stonewalled.
About the only thing that changes police policy are lawsuits and the threat of having to pay damages.
rokemronnie on April 25, 2009 at 1:30 AM
It happens all the time but resigning over ANY incident is very stupid on an officer’s part. A lot of times what happens is something happens to embarress the department and the officer is “allowed” to resign. They are usually given the impression that they will be fired if they dont. What the department is actually doing is attempting to limit their own civil liability. It has the added effect of making you look guilty despite any circumstances.
To any law enforcement reading this, if you are “given the option of resigning” make them fire you.
SnakeintheGrass on April 25, 2009 at 1:33 AM
Does anyone know what became of that Baptist pastor who had the run in with border security?
NeverLiberal on April 25, 2009 at 1:34 AM
You avoided my question but since every cop shades the truth or outright lies on the witness stand I suppose it should be expected. I specified not a life threatening condition but rather “a dangerous situation”.
You can’t have it both ways. You can’t on one hand say how your job doesn’t obligate you to endanger yourself and on the other expect a pat on the back for doing such a dangerous job.
Tell us, who do you work for? The public?
rokemronnie on April 25, 2009 at 1:36 AM
According to your fellow cop, Silver Star, they apparently are less than smart.
rokemronnie on April 25, 2009 at 1:37 AM
What other circumstances could possibly justify that? Maybe I had a gun my teeth aimed at the Officer?
coldshot on April 25, 2009 at 1:44 AM
There is that chip on your shoulder again. You asked a broad question and require a specific answer? Of course I go in to dangerous situations. Be more specific and I’ll get back to you.
It dosent obligate I put someone elses life above my own. It may suprise you but I am still an American citizen. And I have never expected a pat on the back. I do the job I do because I enjoy it most of the time.
I work for a Police Department who cuts me a pay check for rendering a service. It is a job that is afforded certain powers but, at the end of the day, it is still a job.
SnakeintheGrass on April 25, 2009 at 1:47 AM
@SnakeintheGrass
Don’t get me wrong man I have no disrespect for honest Cops.
coldshot on April 25, 2009 at 1:48 AM
Have you ever been in handcuffs? Your movement may be restricted but there is still a suprising amount of dexterity. If the person was handcuffed then managed to pull a gun out of the back of his pants (has happened before and will happen again) I would say it is justified. If THAT was part of the circumstances I would say the person was lucky to have lived.
SnakeintheGrass on April 25, 2009 at 1:50 AM
None taken. You have been polite and have offered valid questions. I got nothing against you ;)
SnakeintheGrass on April 25, 2009 at 1:51 AM
No offense taken, I mean, heh. It’s getting late.
SnakeintheGrass on April 25, 2009 at 1:51 AM
Yes Snake I have had cuffs on. I’m the guy that got his eye knocked out. Yes I was breaking the law. I was in a fist fight with another civilian. No I did not have gun in my back pocket. I was handcuffed with my hands behind my back. Do you think the Police in my hick South Texas town don’t have enough since to frisk a perp? I got hit because I caused myself to be placed in a position to be exposed to people that were even meaner than myself. I have never and would never be cowardly enough to chain a mans hands behind his back and then hit him with a club.
coldshot on April 25, 2009 at 2:00 AM
SnakeintheGrass on April 25, 2009 at 1:29 AM
Snake, you seem like an honest cop, and from this post it seems you…like a good cop…before making a judgment wants all the facts. That is good, I hope you give all fellow citizens…even the known dirt bags, the same benefit of the doubt.
For the most part, cops have my respect. But I am a conservative…I tend to not trust government, or officials of government than I do a teenage boy with my daughter. I know dating is part of growing up and all…just like I know cops are necessary for law and order to take place….but I detest the fact that if I get a ticket, the cop’s word trumps mine. And maybe its the fact I don’t like seat belt laws, I don’t like speed laws ( I do think speed limits should be posted as suggestions, and that reckless driving…ie going beyond the flow of traffic, tail gating, etc should be enforced ) maybe like Ron said…I’m an American, so tend to hold authority with distrust. I get angry when I see speed traps, but when my neighbor complains to the cops that his fence got tagged again…it falls on deaf ears…why can’t the same officer who is up late at night with his radar gun, just drive through the neighborhood once in a while and try to catch these guys who tag? Because keeping the neighborhood clean is very effective in keeping out drugs and crime, ie its the broken window law. A house with a broken window, will soon have all windows broken…its a magnet. Likewise, like a magnet, a well kept house repels petty crime.
Conservative Voice on April 25, 2009 at 2:05 AM
Couldn’t disagree with your headline any more, AP.
1, Standing in the middle of the roadway (as Texas law defines where this clown reporter was standing), is an offense in Texas. So to say he was arrested “for no reason” is simply incorrect.
2. When there are accidents here in El Paso’s main Interstate, inevitably, more of a problem is caused by the individuals on the opposing lanes of traffic stopping to look at the accident. The situation is aggravated when the media is acting boorish and causing MORE of a traffic hazard. And please, was it really that necessary to film another overturned semi?
3. When the police say MOVE. It’s MOVE. Not,”let me do this”. Would the incident have received this much attention if it was some tatted up Mexican Mafia type? Asshat Reporter gets arrested for “Interference with Public Duties”, a misdemeanor in Texas. That’s the catchall when the Police say move and you say “Well hold on..let me [insert asinine non-compliant act here]
4. Per the El Paso Police Dept. procedures manual, if force is used on a subject, an arrest will be made. Putting hands on anyone is force. Once the decision was made by the reporter to not leave when he was told to leave and the officer had to utilize force to demand compliance, the reporter had sealed his own fate. The police are not in the business of “beat and release” and so the arrest had to be made.
5. The entire video has been curously edited for TV. Initially, this reporter’s station was showing footage which showed the Officer, from the other side of the roadway, telling the reporter multiple times to leave. Truly, how many times must an office tell someone to do something before they are forced to comply?
6. . Very, very disappointed with AP/HotAir on the headline. Classic case of speaking before all the facts are known. And its clear that they were unknown as they are NOWHERE in the HotAir story. Only insults for a good cop trying to do his job.
CapitalistPig on April 25, 2009 at 2:05 AM
I meant challenge police policy. Even nicely and politely suggesting that they may not be working in the most effective way will get a sullen and hostile response. I’ve told other city employees my opinion of their work methods and generally they don’t get nearly so touchy as cops do.
Not long ago I was walking to the bicycle shop to get a tire and noticed that a cop from an adjacent suburb had made a traffic stop on a boulevarded street. The driver of the car was at the curb but the cop decided to park his cruiser in the traffic lane, blocking traffic completely because, after all, his safety is more important than inconveniencing folks who can’t drive down the street. He was stopped midway between two cross streets so drivers blocked by him had the option of either backing up half a block (probably illegal), going up on the blvd berm, or sit there and wait for the cop to finish writing the ticket.
Now if I was blocking traffic like that I’d get a ticket (just as I’d get a ticket if I parked in the left turn lane on a major road like cops do so they can issue tickets for no right turn on red). There was no emergency that justified blocking traffic, just the cop’s belief that he can do whatever he wants when making a traffic stop. Cops interpret the law to mean that they can break any traffic law when enforcing traffic laws.
I politely explained to the cop that he was blocking traffic, but then he already knew that because he had to have seen the pickup truck go up on the berm to get around him. I also suggested that since he was outside his jurisdiction he might respect our municipalities laws a bit more.
Unfortunately for him I wasn’t doing anything illegal, just telling someone illegally parked in my city that he was blocking traffic.
I suppose I was lucky. Another time I almost rear ended a cop from another adjacent suburb because he pulled someone over on a side street to a major highway (a border road) and parked his cruiser in a traffic lane. When you turn off of a 45mph road onto a side street, you don’t expect a car parked in the middle of the road.
Since he was parked in front of my cousin’s house (blocking his driveway as well, which is also a violation in this city – I can get a ticket for blocking my own drive) I pulled around him, parked at the curb up the street and walked back. I politely suggested that he was parked in an unsafe spot.
His response?
“Kiss my ass”.
“What did you say to me, officer? What’s your badge number?”
“Kiss my ass and if you don’t leave I’ll arrest you for interfering with a police stop.”
“I’m not interfering with anything, just concerned about an unsafe situation. I’m on the sidewalk, outside of your jurisdiction. You don’t want me to know your badge number, fine. You’re driving cruiser #69 and you can expect a lecture from the duty officer when you get back to the shop.”
I called his department, made a complaint and the duty officer apologized and said that kind of language was highly inappropriate to a civilian.
Have any of the cops here disputed that statement? Have any of the cops here said that some cops are indeed dangerous and rogue? They won’t do so because that would be going over the thin blue line. Cops must be defended at all costs and when they do the indefensible, well, then that can be blamed on the stress of their job.
If you note, none of the cops here have responded to my questions about special treatment for fellow cops or how they feel about the internal affairs bureau of their department.
As far as my age is concerned, I’m not the one calling myself a baby. There have been 11 presidents of the United States in my lifetime.
rokemronnie on April 25, 2009 at 2:07 AM
Were they actually prosecuted?
rokemronnie on April 25, 2009 at 2:09 AM
I am not suggesting that you have or would do anything like this. In my younger years I caused myself to have more contact with Law Enforcement than a good law abiding citizen. I don’t want any body to think I was persecuted by the police. I got myself in trouble.
coldshot on April 25, 2009 at 2:12 AM
Proves my point. Cops deeply resent the notion that they are public employees. I’ve heard cops say that they work for their police chief not the public. Your response is essentially the same thing. Why do you resent so much the fact that you work for and serve the public?
rokemronnie on April 25, 2009 at 2:12 AM
They were stopped on the left hand shoulder of a busy highway and that is why I am stuck in traffic. People like that reporter are why I’m stuck in traffic. He was told to leave for every ones safety, mine and his. He refused. I would have liked to seen him pistol whipped but that’s just me. Natural selection works, but we just won’t let it.
Pole-Cat on April 25, 2009 at 2:14 AM
I am sorry you were in that situation. My point was that things arent always black and white. You see a headline that says “Officer shoots unarmed man” and you take away that the officer murdered him. What that headline dosent say is that said “unarmed man” was killed while trying to run the officer over with his car.
That is why I dont pass judgement without all of the facts. For instance, what if the headline of your incident says “Officer heroiclly apprehends street brawlers”? It makes you sound like a thug and the officer praised as a hero. It makes no mention of a vicious and unwaranted beating.
And (not that it really matters) I work in a small Texas town myself. You know who we get most of our officer complaints from? Ordinary residence who were angery because the police had the audacity to pull them over. My dashboard camera has cleared me a number of times.
SnakeintheGrass on April 25, 2009 at 2:18 AM
Hell if it were natural selection Pole-Cat there wouldn’t be anybody left but me and you. Then survival of the fittest would come into play and then I would have get rid of you.
coldshot on April 25, 2009 at 2:19 AM
Why does a police officer believe he has the authority to order the reporter to leave?
That is the start of the whole problem.
It doesn’t start with an action- it starts with the belief among police officers that if they tell someone to do something that the other person is obligated to obey them, and that if they don’t obey the officer can arrest them.
That is the first problem.
Instead officers need to understand that they can only enforce lawful orders. For example, in this instance, if the objection is that they are blocking traffic, then the officer should express this explanation to the reporter. Officers need to learn to treat citizens respectfully instead of demanding blind obedience. Ironically enough, when officers do follow a policy of always treating people with respect, this builds a relationship of trust, that then often results in people obeying officers without question.
The second problem is the officers attitude is confrontational- he creates the conflict because he’s in “intimidation” mode. I’ve noticed this change myself over the last 20 years in just the way officers behave at traffic stops. It used to be they would approach, and then smile and politely tell you how you had broken a traffic law and then give you a ticket, sometimes they’d even chat with you about the recent ballgame. I’ve seen that politeness disappear. Just last week I missed a speed limit sign that dropped the limit from 45 to 35, and when the police officer pulled me over, he was almost yelling at me, and his entire body language bespoke hostility on the verge of violence. I’m almost never scared by physical threats (beaten by too many bullies in school to have much fear in me anymore), but I was a little intimidated. Mainly because the hostility caught me by surprise.
That’s the other big problem nowadays. Police Officers seem unable to differentiate between people they need to intimidate, and those they should approach as friendlies. Instead it’s full intimidation all the time.
I understand that police work is a difficult and dangerous job, but frankly, most of the problems the police have nowadays with an ungrateful public, is the fault of police officers abusing their authority and showing poor judgment by treating law abiding citizens like they are hardened criminals.
It’s no wonder the public doesn’t like police anymore.
I’ve gone from defending police officers (like during the Rodney King thing) to suspecting that police are often in the wrong. I simply don’t trust police officers anymore, and it saddens and disturbs me that when I see an officer my first thought is “How do I make sure he leaves me alone?”
It used to be I liked shooting the breeze with policemen- but not anymore.
Sackett on April 25, 2009 at 2:20 AM
Investigating vandalism is less profitable for the department and the officer than writing tickets.
Because with that radar gun he can guarantee himself some overtime because they don’t have night traffic court.
The high seniority cops have a great scam going. There’s a cop in Warren, Michigan who makes six figures with all his overtime. He works a night shift and last year gave out 2400 tickets, all but 60 of them for rolling stop signs. Every ticket he writes is guaranteed overtime (and he gets paid a flat number of overtime hours for each appearance even though court appearances don’t take that much time).
A local news crew got video of him in court and he was smirking at the camera. Even with all that overtime, the revenue for 2400 tickets turned a profit so his superiors don’t have a problem with how he’s jobbing the system.
I’m willing to bet that just before he retires he’ll be “disabled”. And then when the fatass (at least 250#) retires, the taxpayers will be still paying him.
rokemronnie on April 25, 2009 at 2:20 AM
Well. I’m not your typical coward… for one.
Secondly; bite my ass.
Ugly on April 25, 2009 at 2:21 AM
How would you feel if someone you pulled over got out a camera and started shooting video of you?
Or are cameras only nice when they protect cops from abuse charges?
rokemronnie on April 25, 2009 at 2:23 AM
Pretty broad general statement from someone who is probably
1. Not a cop
2. Not a police psychologist
3. Prone to making overarching general assumptions.
CapitalistPig on April 25, 2009 at 2:23 AM
Hello. Hello again.
Ugly on April 25, 2009 at 2:24 AM
Though I am loathe to lower myself to your level, I should point out that biting your ass would be difficult. It’d be hard to get at it because of all the cops you’re bottoming for.
rokemronnie on April 25, 2009 at 2:25 AM
I’ll give a very honest, non PC answer on that: Patrolling gets boring and you are very, very unlikely to catch someone breaking the law. Patrolling is really a deterent to crime rather than something used to detect crime.
Not saying it is right or wrong, just how it is.
SnakeintheGrass on April 25, 2009 at 2:26 AM
Since I mellowed, years do that to you, I don’t put myself into those situations and I’m much happier and have seen that Cops are a good thing. Just like every other job you have good workers and bad workers. I would like to see bad workers that commit crimes be punished regardless of whether they work for a plumber or a police department.
Small Texas town??? South Texas maybe?
coldshot on April 25, 2009 at 2:29 AM
As the PDs get more military every day. If I break into my neighbor’s house and shoot them I’ll be prosecuted. If the police use a bogus informant to get a bogus search warrant and while invading the wrong home manage to kill someone, they’ll get off scott free. The chief of police in Milwaukee, while publicly stating that his department would ignore state law that permits open carry of firearms, said his “troops” will put anyone armed that way on the ground, confiscate their weapon and only return it if it’s determined to be legal.
Troops?
rokemronnie on April 25, 2009 at 2:30 AM
Whippersnapper!
Loxodonta on April 25, 2009 at 2:30 AM
I know you ment that to take a cheap shot at me but no, as long as those with cameras dont interfer in any way I really dont care. After all, I am recording the exact same incident.
SnakeintheGrass on April 25, 2009 at 2:31 AM
lol.. ’nuff said. Trolls are abundant. And I am tired.
BUT HEY. Good luck with all that.
Ugly on April 25, 2009 at 2:31 AM
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