Quotes of the day
posted at 10:00 pm on April 24, 2009 by Allahpundit
“I think we need to think hard about these tea parties. You had people in the streets. You had thousands of people in the streets.”
***
“Finally, in desperation, my critics said that it is not actually the level of taxation today that they are protesting. It’s the implicit tax resulting from large federal deficits that really concerns them.
I might have been willing to buy this argument except for the fact that these same people justified a huge tax cut in 2001 on the grounds that large budget surpluses, which had arisen toward the end of Bill Clinton’s administration, were proof of over-taxation since the government was taking in more revenue than it needed to pay its bills.
Furthermore, the conservative line for the last eight years was that budget deficits don’t matter, as Vice President Dick Cheney famously remarked when Treasury Secretary Paul O’Neill raised concerns about them at a cabinet meeting in 2002…
Still, all movements must start somewhere. If the April 15 tea parties are really about more than just electing Republicans and increasing Fox News ratings, I may join them next year. In the meantime, protestors need to do a better job of figuring out what they are protesting and devise a real plan for dealing with our nation’s fiscal problem. Otherwise, their efforts will amount to nothing more than hot air.”
***
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They’ve always mattered, & critics of BHO’s spending were critics of W’s spending. But in spending, BHO is W times 10.
jgapinoy on April 24, 2009 at 10:04 PM
I do think W turned a lot of people off to conservatism, unfortunately. (Of course, the media helped a lot.)
kc8ukw on April 24, 2009 at 10:05 PM
The old “percentage of taxation of GDP” crap again. That is an asinine measurement. Far more important is the level of taxation on JOB CREATORS. Entrepreneurs who are trying to decide to gamble their capital and 10 years of sweat to launch a new business. They already know the odds are against them, but if the federal rate goes to 40% for them, by the time you add in all of the other taxes they will be giving up MOST of their income. So, they won’t bother and no economic growth will be the result. Amazing how stupid some “conservatives” are about this issue.
echosyst on April 24, 2009 at 10:07 PM
Translation: “What, Me Worry?”
Seriously, can we get a competent man in the White House? Someone who probably doesn’t nightshift with a pair of large shows, red wig, and a clown nose?
I’d call him a dunce, but it makes all the dunces in the world look smarter by comparison.
CatsGodot on April 24, 2009 at 10:08 PM
Because he was only half conservative–the tax-cutting half.
jgapinoy on April 24, 2009 at 10:08 PM
*large shoes, not shows, sorry.
CatsGodot on April 24, 2009 at 10:08 PM
Good comment from MKat.
It did seem to me that people had difficultly articulating a common message, but it did not seem to me that people lacked a message. It was a smorgasbord of reasons. My personal opinion is that the level of activity was jumpstarted by the non-reading of the bills that created this generational debt. Voting before you read?! Outrageous. If they had deliberated in Congress, I don’t think the response would have been so ambulatory.
Spirit of 1776 on April 24, 2009 at 10:10 PM
Hoover turned folks off from the GOP brand, too. Hoover was also a half-conservative like W. And Hoover was replaced by an ultra-lefty, like W.
jgapinoy on April 24, 2009 at 10:10 PM
Exactly. It’s kind of ironic, actually, that the media that said the nation had all soured on Bush and only his family and staff supported him, now in the age of Obama, propose that the entire right wing was in formation behind him on every issue.
Here’s a news-flash for the news: wot was priority #1 for GWB, and for the right.
Spirit of 1776 on April 24, 2009 at 10:11 PM
So these ‘tea party’ protests were all about taxes?
..
and only taxes?
..
nothing but taxes??
Skandia Recluse on April 24, 2009 at 10:13 PM
This guy should have retired when Kemp did.
The declining tax burden over the last eight years is solely due to the Bush tax cuts. How bright does someone have to be to figure out that when Uhbumbee allows the tax cuts to expire, TAXES ARE GOING RIGHT BACK UP?
The amazing thing about the tea parties is that it is probably the first time in our history that we didn’t wait for the disaster to strike before we started doing something about it.
platypus on April 24, 2009 at 10:16 PM
I was at a tea party to protest the growth of government and the loss of sovereignty of the states. I think there should be no income tax and the feds should cut spending and get out of everything except national defense and those things specifically spelled out in the constitution. And before getaclue chimes in and says that the income tax is an amendment to the constitution, if the government just cut spending to 2001 levels we could repeal that amendment and the government could get by on tariffs alone. So I have an axe to grind with the current administration as well as the last. This is not a Republican/Democrat issue to me. They both suck.
conservnut on April 24, 2009 at 10:18 PM
It’s not just the abject incompetent in the White House, it’s also the fellow Socialist travelers in the House of Lords and the House of Ill-Repute. The Caliph requests spending increases and the Congesstitutes fall all over themselves to generate more taxes to pay for the Caliph’s spending and, of course, some of their own.
We’ve a Maoist in the White House, Stalinist at State, drunken Congresstitute sailors trampling all over the Constitution. I want the United States of America back!
SeniorD on April 24, 2009 at 10:20 PM
Katrina vanden Heuvel understands things more than Bartlett does:
I don’t think anyone is waiting on your endorsement.
On April 10th Bartlett wrote this:
Tax Tea Party Time? Higher taxes may not be as bad as they seem.
He really doesn’t get it.
INC on April 24, 2009 at 10:22 PM
I dunno. I think disaster struck November 2008.
jgapinoy on April 24, 2009 at 10:22 PM
I agree, but where do we go from here and how do we get on the same page? How do we move forward?
My main agenda is “term limits”. Until we clear the building of the likes of Frank, Dodd, Specter or Snowe, we will continue to see the same old, same old.
You can’t teach a dog new tricks, same for Congressmen.
Knucklehead on April 24, 2009 at 10:23 PM
Latest PJTV numbers:
US Turnout: 823,076
INC on April 24, 2009 at 10:25 PM
People seem to have forgotten that you can’t fight the MSM – they have their finger on the off-button for the cameras.
The whole point of places like Hot Air is to simply go around the wall the MSM has put up to stop facts from getting out.
Merovign on April 24, 2009 at 10:26 PM
I put it in Nov ’06. Bad press, violence in Iraq, no real defense of Bush.
Skandia Recluse on April 24, 2009 at 10:27 PM
Hey AP!…please correct your error on the word Conservative and replace with Repubics. A true conservative would of handle the budget with more prudence and responsibility . Thank you very much!
hawkman on April 24, 2009 at 10:33 PM
I think that’s a poor argument. Social security, Medicare, Payroll, and other taxes, do not reflect the value amount in a Taxpayers ROI. The taxes increase and the services options are increased, the overall value returned decreases. It’s like before there were credit cards, you had to save till you could afford such goods or services. Either you get a loan from the bank which you pay interest on, or you cannot afford it and you live within your budget.
The money that goes for those services through my tax dollars are well below reasonable expectations. Additionally, those dollars are going increasingly going to those who do not pay taxes. Where is the value in that?
And those dollars going to Social security and medicare, how long will it be before the cost goes beyond the ability to tax?
Kini on April 24, 2009 at 10:34 PM
Frum disagreeing with conservatives on something? I’m shocked. He’s just Meg-Meg with a bigger bra size.
It's Vintage, Duh on April 24, 2009 at 10:37 PM
And by “Frum” I, of course, mean Bartlett.
Ahem.
It's Vintage, Duh on April 24, 2009 at 10:39 PM
The Liberals,as usual,are manufacturing fake Outrage
over the Tea Partys!
And its the Marxist Socialist Media thats carrying
Obama’s banner of Deception/Perception ongoing campaign
on how the media portrays the Right,in the mindset of
left!
F’n Outstanding,eh!!
canopfor on April 24, 2009 at 10:40 PM
How about seeing the forest through the trees…………
1 – Community Reinvestment Act forcing banks to loan money under penalty to persons who could not afford it for “Democrat Social Engineering”.
2 – Democrat take over of Fanny Mae and Freddy Mac to buy up such worthless loans, package them into stock portfolios backed by the full faith and credit of the United States, and sell them on Wall Street all over the world as a “sure bet”, making millions to fund Democrat “Think Tanks”, bureaucrats, and out of work politicians.
3 – After thirty years of average Americans working hard and paying their bills, they are told that their investments and retirement savings have ‘evaporated’ not due to the ‘housing bubble’ that Democratic Social Engineering policies created, but because of ‘greed on Wall Street’.
4 – Americans remember the Bush Administration’s attempts to head off the now current financial disaster in 2004.
5 – Then something funny happened on the way to the election……
6 – President Bush was told we were all going to die unless he signed the Democrats bill to give the Treasury Secretary sole authority over our monetary supply, along with ‘special powers’, but don’t worry about it…….
7 – With the help of the “Free and Independent” Press Corp., their candidate Mr. Pantywaist gets elected President of the United States.
8 – With control of both Houses of Congress and the Executive Branch, the Democrats quickly pass and shove down the throats of the American people TARP I, TARP II, STIMULOUS/PORKULOUS, the Budget, and STIMULOUS/PORKULOUS II on the way……….. TRILLIONS in spending to add to the past eight years, that will effectively change this country as we know it, set the table for hyper-inflation in the coming months, and leave our children and grandchildren with a debt that they may never be able to pay.
9 – Some of these spending bills were not even read by the people who voted for them, nor seen the light of day by the American people.
10 – The Federal Government has taken over banks, private businesses, and used ‘terror’ tactics with media propaganda behind them to turn this once Free Nation into the beginnings of a Marxist/Socialist State.
Our Plan……..?
Voting!
I think we have a good idea what we are protesting, Skippy……
……….. why don’t you go back to your prostitution day job?
Seven Percent Solution on April 24, 2009 at 10:40 PM
I think the Russian in the video is wrong about the similarities between what’s happening in American today and what he saw in the Soviet Union. It’s not indifference.
It’s hopelessness. I think most of us know that no matter what we do it won’t change anything. In the USSR it was fear of the government, probably, that stopped people from speaking up. Here it’s fear of everyone.
This society has gotten to the point where there is no way to defend anything that even smacks of a Western conservative value without being called a racist, homophobic, right wing, extremist. And it’s been going on for a lot longer than Jeanne Garafalo’s little rant or Charles Johnson’s crusade to destroy anyone who defends Western values in a way he disapproves of.
Conservatives are just as much to blame because most of them don’t believe they are defending something worth defending enough to defend it without worrying that the other side will call them racist, homophobic, right wing extremists.
Jaynie59 on April 24, 2009 at 10:40 PM
Well Said!
+50
Kini on April 24, 2009 at 10:47 PM
I wish people would start pushing back on this statement. Why the hell do you think Democrats took both the House and Senate the last two years of Bush’s term! Republicans were spending like Democrats and we threw them out. Conservatives were getting beaten bloody by Dems and the media and we had no one defending us and our principles.
This was my sign on 4/15. I wasn’t there just protesting the bailouts, high tax and spend. I thought about what I was really feeling and, though Uncle Sam might not have been the best symbol to protray it, I feel like the Government has got their foot on my neck and is trampling all over the Constitution. The Constitution has been ignored and broken for so long, it barely has any meaning to those in Washington. It means everything to me! Men gave their life to give this gift to us. Are out lives worth more than theirs that we’re not willing to defend it.
Here’s a picture of my sign.
http://picturetrail.com/sfx/album/view/21882819
SoldiersMom on April 24, 2009 at 10:50 PM
I think I see what “the New Majority” really means.
ddrintn on April 24, 2009 at 10:51 PM
I’m late to the conversation, and I apologize upfront for not reading the entire thread, but I can’t resist this question.
It is imperative that we keep these tea parties going. Every one that has gone, has got to go again, and must talk everyone that vacillated and didn’t go last time to go next time.
The numbers need to grow.
There are untold numbers of people that will protest, but need a little prodding. You know, the shy types, and the “someone will do it for me” types.
Then there is another very important group of people that don’t come out of their hole until they see a crowd moving in any particular direction.
Same page?
Repeal the 16th amendment. It would rock the world.
This has tea party purpose all over it. If this was our call to arms, and it grew into millions marching on Washington, it could accomplish so much of what “we” are struggling to define ourselves on:
Individual Liberty
Conservatism
Small, Limited, Federal Government
Privacy
Equal Taxation
Economic Growth
Money for Health Care and Education
Diminishing the Power of the Career Politician
I could go on….
But, my main point is this:
This would, in essence, be a earth shaking revolution, a rebirth, a revival, a re-awakening of who WE are…with a fighting chance of retaining the Constitution in the process.
Saltysam on April 24, 2009 at 10:53 PM
Large, loud impassioned protests do no need a logical roadmap for counter action to be successful . . . remember the Vietnam protests? I lived in that time and in that war and I assure you that there were no foreign policy experts, war strategists or tacticians conducting the protests. If the left screams then you scream louder; if they attempt to flood the news with “facts” then trump them with more “facts”. Be persistent, be bold and be convincing and you can win.
rplat on April 24, 2009 at 10:53 PM
Not wanting to make an actual comparison of the Tea Parties to the Vietnam War protests of my youth, since the Tea Parties of today are infinitely directed toward a far larger issue than the anti-war protests ever were, as the Tea Parties strike at the fundamentals of our representative form of government, and the anti-war protests were….well, were just anti-war, one particular war, at that.
That said…looking back at those wonderful times of my youth, there are presently similarities in the Tea Parties that we, as a People, should take note of, lest we surrender the momentum and become factionalized, and hence neutered.
For those who were not there, some forty years ago, the anti-war protests brought out every imaginable group, united ad hoc to shock the public, and more importantly to shock the then LBJ Administration and later the Nixon Administration, to understand that most Americans, almost all Americans, as the Jerry Rubin’s and others claimed, were against the War in Vietnam. [In fact, most Americans being anti-Vietnam war was a falsehood.]
As those anti-war protests took place, there were dozens of various groups…anti-war protesters being just one.
Black liberation, womens rights, gay rights, anti-corporatism, back to nature, you name it, if there was a protest on campus or in town, everybody who had a cause came out and joined in. [The Right and far-Right, excepted, of course.]
When Phnom Penh and then Saigon fell, the protests waned, then vanished. The war was over. No sense protesting anymore. Or so the anti-war factions thought.
But the others, who lent bodies, money, signs, shrill voices…you know, the Earth Day founders, environmentalists, the back to nature types, the gay libs, the womens libs, the Black liberation types…suddenly found that after Saigon fell…they had been used. And all those wonderful, peace, love and Brotherhood of Man types who were anti-war, for the most part couldn’t care less about gay lib, womens lib, save the Redwoods, and certainly not the Black Panthers.
This is the danger of the present Tea Parties.
Focus.
And articulating, with sharp focus the why?
We are up against past masters when it comes to protest. Look at those who are calling the shots these days, and their well-heeled suppporters.
All they have to do is follow Alinsky’s basic dictums, and peel off one sub-group at a time, or highlight that one or two of those involved with the Tea Parties is extremist, violence-prone, or pro-gun and anti-gay, or brown-shirt wearing neo-facists. (I know…facism is a Leftist domain.)
But the point is, they and the MSM have already engaged in denigrating certain groups and have also gone out of their way to try to stir up factionalism as the Tea Parties progress.
No…and the GOP needs to understand this…these are not pro-GOP protests. They are pro-American protests.
Our local campus Republican Club made this error recently.
Should any GOP candidate attempt to try to use a Tea Party to further the GOP agenda…well, they will be shooting themselves in the foot, alienating a huge swath of the participants, and will validate to the MSM and the Left that these protests are nothing but pseudo-anarchy, Republican style.
And that label, that badge, will stick come 2010 and 2012…they hope.
Can the GOP “use” the Tea parties to their advantage?
They can….if they listen first. Listen long and hard, and take notes, perhaps they can gain advantage.
But, in order to do so successfully…the GOP either needs to reaffirm in the hearts and minds of not only the Party faithful, but to most of America in fly-over land and on the coasts that something is terribly wrong with how our government has been doing business and how the present Administration and Congress is out of control.
And to do that, the GOP had better come to understand first that if they are not part of the solution (defining and acting swiftly on smaller government, smaller tax burdens, cutting non-essential government spending, getting back to the basics) they are then very much part of the problem, and will have to step aside as another political party forms that is indeed based on those basic principles.
There is a tsunami of anti-Administration and anti-Congress angst in America…despite what Obama thinks, believes, or his minions are fond of putting out in their punditry.
Harness that energy…focus that energy…and keep the message simple and to the basic principles our Nation was founded upon, and the validity of these Tea Parties to most Americans will be profound.
Try to make it a GOP thing…the followers of Alinsky will win…and big…and by then, it may be too late to get the real change America demands.
coldwarrior on April 24, 2009 at 10:56 PM
Well, I guess I can’t post the links, I have tried,, must be a copyright thing,,, but if you want to see the difference in coverage, just Google variations of “illegals protesting in streets NBC, CBS, Fox, MSNBC” and so forth. Remember all these protests?? They were all around May 2006.
The mainstream media just could not get enough of the beauty and courage of illegals protesting by the thousands in hundreds of cities across America!
Illegals protesting in our streets waving foreign flags is heroic and courageous and patriotic!
Real Americans protesting waving American flags are a bunch of racist lunitics!
JellyToast on April 24, 2009 at 10:59 PM
Clicky
Ugly on April 24, 2009 at 11:02 PM
JellyToast on April 24, 2009 at 10:59 PM
That’s ok, we’ll get the chance to see it all again when the demorats shove amnesty down our throats in early 2010, just in time to sway the midterm elections.
If nationalized health care becomes a reality, the left will have formed a basis for their new paradigm and will decide that they really can do whatever they want whenever they want. 20 million illegals will become citizens literally overnight and if the balloon doesn’t go up, I would be surprised as hell.
This is all going to end badly, very badly.
Bishop on April 24, 2009 at 11:03 PM
Bravo . . . well spoken and right on.
rplat on April 24, 2009 at 11:03 PM
I just never thought I would see such a drastic, awful and sudden transformation of my country in my lifetime; I wonder if this is how things felt in the months before the civil war.
Bishop on April 24, 2009 at 11:05 PM
As usual, Allahpundit is prey to the logical flaw that infects all non-republicans et al. You state that these same people under Clinton justified tax cuts because of the surplus (phoney surplus) and justified Bush’s budget deficits. Well, AP, you are full of it. Why don’t you go find one person that came out to the tea partys that was one of the old justifiers you speak of. These are not your beltway crowd. They have been camplaining about both repubs and dems for years and nobody, including YOU, paid any attention to them. YOU only hear them when they get out and demonstrate! Obviously the people from these 800+ towns, generally in flyover country, don’t exist in your mind.
Old Country Boy on April 24, 2009 at 11:05 PM
It wasn’t all about taxes. It was about spending.
The consequences of this spending will be painful to everyone. If past history is not a barometer to the future, then the message is clear.
Government is the problem.
Government cannot even manage its own business let alone run ours. Government has lost its mission statement, To Protect the American People, not to manage our money.
The Tea Party message is there. It just hasn’t coalesced into a concise message.
Kini on April 24, 2009 at 11:08 PM
How many here would support another Tea Party protect on July 4th?
Kini on April 24, 2009 at 11:13 PM
protect = protest
Kini on April 24, 2009 at 11:13 PM
This is feeling more like the fall of the Roman Empire. We have lost our moral compass and I see no way of turning that around. Before and after the Civil War, people worked their land just to survive. Today they work to buy cell phones, flat screen TV’s and XBox’s.
Knucklehead on April 24, 2009 at 11:14 PM
The author has some damn good points there. Thing is, Republican partisans were awfully silent when the deficit substantially increased under the watch of Dubya and the GOP Congress. Fact of the matter is that too many conservatives have, for far too long, given the GOP a free pass whenever it has strayed from conservative principles. And some GOP’ers have the gall to complain about the John and Meghan McCains of the party? Puh-leeze! There’s a reason why conservatives like me refuse to join the so-called “big tent”. The GOP just doesn’t reflect the things I believe in now.
NorthernCross on April 24, 2009 at 11:15 PM
At the moment, I don’t think enough understand. Instead, too many officials in both parties are betting that a growing government will line all their pockets, and Americans will stay focused on the trinkets headed our way and not see we are getting our pockets picked.
Loxodonta on April 24, 2009 at 11:18 PM
I agree with the sentiment about being rather unsure if the energy and steam rooted in these Tea Parties will remain or will they for the most part dry up. So from this point of view, I can see the second quoted person’s point of view on waiting to see if the Tea Parties end up maintaining the energy.
Our country has, occasionally, suffered through very tough times, the Civil War being the most brutal and damaging to our nation. Yet we have survived and are where we are today for no other reason than our spirit and ingenuity. I do not despair, despite knowing that we’re going to go through much rougher times than we are now, no matter how effective the Tea Parties are at reforming the deep rooted corruption and weasel-mentality of Washington D.C.. We have to suffer as a nation because we have too much debt and a depression, while not pleasant to live through, will be good in the end at relieving the debt and lowering prices.
I agree with Mr Beck. I believe that the Tea Parties, whether they stay the way they are or morph into some larger movement, will expand and have a positive effect, but only after the next round of real taxes are enacted and people really feel the pain. It has to. We have to continue to press our government to change through protest and lobbying. We don’t have a choice. It’s either peaceful but firm reform or all out violent uprising. I much prefer the former.
Weebork on April 24, 2009 at 11:18 PM
Meanwhile he’ll keep trying to do a better job of figuring out what his new majority is and devise a real plan for it, and if that doesn’t work out and the Tea Party does, he’ll run over to stand in front of the crowd with his New Majority sign.
Dusty on April 24, 2009 at 11:19 PM
Probably more like Germany in the 30′s.
Johan Klaus on April 24, 2009 at 11:20 PM
Government has lost its mission statement, To Protect the American People, not to manage our money.
This will be my next sign at the July 4th tea party. Thanks Bishop.
SoldiersMom on April 24, 2009 at 11:21 PM
I think that the republicans have become democrat lite.
Johan Klaus on April 24, 2009 at 11:22 PM
As we saw in that dimwitted CNN “reporter” Susan Roesgen citing that “well, you are getting $400 back” and “Your state is getting $50 billion.”
As if both were a gift from Heaven, and not a strong-arm robbery out of our own pockets.
coldwarrior on April 24, 2009 at 11:25 PM
Why not this year. July 4th.
Christian Conservative on April 24, 2009 at 11:28 PM
Democrat Lite? At this point, I am hard pressed to find an actual distinction, other than one being totally under the spell of Obama/Pelosi/Reid and the other wishing they had someone under whose spell they could fall.
coldwarrior on April 24, 2009 at 11:28 PM
It’s kinda funny reading the comments under Bruce Bartlett’s posting..
Many of them are taking him to task for missing the point altogether..
DaveC on April 24, 2009 at 11:30 PM
+1
DaveC on April 24, 2009 at 11:31 PM
Here’s a little perspective from a friends in the UK.
Alistair Darling unveils 50 per cent tax rate in Budget 2009
The top rate was 40%. They had planned on announcing a rate increase to 45%, but then the economy…….
This rate is effective for those making £150,000 per year. With the current exchange, that’s $220k per year. Personal allowance (tax deductions) will be fully withdrawn from those making over £100,000 ($147k) per year.
Ten bucks says Slow Joe is salivating right now.
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on April 24, 2009 at 11:33 PM
Tom Wolfe once said that America is a country where fascism is always about to arrive but never does. But, for once in my long life, I am truly afraid that it is arriving and I feel, like many others, rather powerless in the face of it.
The Tea Parties are a sign that I am, like many others, not alone in seeing what is happening to my country.
Dhuka on April 24, 2009 at 11:34 PM
Here’s the thing: if it weren’t for Rahm Emanuel’s comment that “a crisis is a terrible thing to waste,” if it weren’t for the fact that Saul Alinsky was committed to subverting the democratic process, and Obama was his disciple; if it weren’t for the fact that Obama’s ineptitude seems too colossal to be anything but intentional, by, for example, bowing to a foreign potentate, constantly apologizing for the country which he (as titular head) supposedly “loves”)), and sitting quietly through the diatribes of the rascists and tyrants Jeremiah Wright and Daniel Ortega — i.e. cowardly suffering (and, indeed, encouraging) his country to be constantly defamed and insulted; if it weren’t for the fact that the Open Society of George Soros is INTENT on LOWERING and HUMILIATING and EQUALIZING the United States of America before the most animalistic and degraded of nations, and that Everything that Obama does seems to tend towards that Objective, including but not limited to Removing the CIA as our intelligence apparatus by threatening it with prosecution, and humiliating it; and enslaving future generations of Americans with the most spurious and yet inexorably debts which one can conceive, to the extent that one could easily believe that this man has come to take all reparations back from the evil white slaveowners . . . if it were not for these facts, one might believe that Obama was naive or foolish or misguided or negligent, but taken all in all it is too much to be believed, and so this is what the tea parties are protesting: that He truly is the Manchurian Candidate, and the Anti-Christ — and that if the Chi-Coms had set out to plan the deliberate dismantling of the United States, they could not have done so more effectively than by this man, and by the actions which he is taking, in such an incredibly short span of time, to destroy us all.
pomerpants on April 24, 2009 at 11:34 PM
Does anyone know of any events planned?
Kini on April 24, 2009 at 11:34 PM
Congrats on 3 years of blogging excellence Allah and Michelle
Free Constitution on April 24, 2009 at 11:35 PM
pomerpants on April 24, 2009 at 11:34 PM
I also heard he’s secretly a Muslim. And that he’s building FEMA camps to round us up.
/tinfoil
Free Constitution on April 24, 2009 at 11:40 PM
And let’s not forget that those rich Republicans are going to steal our manna from heaven with their greedy tax cuts because their just mean and selfish and hateful…
If it hasn’t been said yet, it will be. We’re being demonized on all fronts.
Loxodonta on April 24, 2009 at 11:42 PM
Where do we go from here?
Republicans once created a Contract with America that energized things and led to a Republican takeover of Congress. Of course, the Republican new boss turned out to be a venal and corrupt as the old boss and it is apparent that neither party can be trusted.
The great advantage and disadvantage of the tea party movement is that there is no hierarchy or central organization. However, it may be possible to create an organized message that forces legislators to behave and punishes ones that don’t. Porkbusters could work with others to move the message. Maybe some prominent bloggers should join forces to propose a platform.
Keep it simple. The following five points are examples that would pretty much cover the big issues.
1. Amend the Constitution to create a firewall between the government and private industry. Government may not fund, own or compete with private enterprise. Government may not manage companies, hire or fire executives, direct company operations or assume any role properly properly allocated to executives or a Board of Directors.
2. Pass a federalism amendment. The central government has no rights not explicitly given to it by the US Constitution and may not dictate laws or regulations to the states by decree or by the threat to with hold funds.
3. End earmarks. There is no reason to drain tax dollars from the states to return a portion of it to line lawmakers’ campaign coffers.
4. Require balanced budgets, with temporary permission to run deficits in times of war.
5. Investigate and prosecute Congressional corruption.
obladioblada on April 24, 2009 at 11:43 PM
I think once the banks shut down and the power goes off it’ll be about 1 week before the riots start, so the excess ppopulation should be eradicated with minimal stress. But in the event some attempt to make it to the interior, the news is that ex-Gitmo detainees will be there waiting.
pomerpants on April 24, 2009 at 11:49 PM
When we get piled upon one another in large cities, as in Europe, we shall become as corrupt as Europe
- Thomas Jefferson
The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.
- Thomas Jefferson
It is incumbent on every generation to pay its own debts as it goes. A principle which if acted on would save one-half the wars of the world.
- Thomas Jefferson
I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.
- Thomas Jefferson
My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government.
- Thomas Jefferson
I think this is the most extraordinary collection of talent, of human knowledge, that has ever been gathered at the White House – with the possible exception of when Thomas Jefferson dined alone.
- John Kennedy (speaking to a group of scholars gathered at the White House)
MB4 on April 24, 2009 at 11:49 PM
End-times, baby!!
pomerpants on April 24, 2009 at 11:50 PM
Income.
What is income?
If you bought 50 melons for fifty dollars and sold them all for 1 dollar each after getting what the market yielded. Is there an income?
No, and rightfully so, nothing to tax either.
Well, who owns the value of the work that you do?
You do.
Whatever it is worth, you own it and have always owned it, and noone else owns it, until you trade it with someone else for equal value.
In order to place a profit value on the trading of your labors, you would need to determine that it was worth less than what you traded it for.
This is an impossible determination.
Are we to pretend that the value of your work is pure profit? That you invested zero into it but when you sell it in the market for “x” dollars per hour that somehow you’ve created a profit?
Non sense. You could work all day long and realize its value without trading it. When someone is willing to trade you for it, you would be willing to trade your work for an equal benefit to what you could accomplish with that work for your own benefit.
Clearly, it is not profit, therefore, it’s not an income.
Well, who the hell is the State to lay claim to your work?
THERE IS NO PROFIT REALIZED!
Join or Die
Tea Parties Unite to Repeal the 16th amendment.
Saltysam on April 24, 2009 at 11:50 PM
1 & 2 are already in the Constituion. SCOTUS just applied interpretational gymnastics. Freedom of Contract does not exist anymore.
4 will never happen, not when political interests take priority over good policy. You really expect to change that? And I’m not convinced it is such good policy.
Good luck on 5.
Free Constitution on April 24, 2009 at 11:50 PM
This year July 4th is on a Saturday.
The next round of Tea Party’s are tentatively set for Independence Day and over July 4th weekend.
Whatever your political affiliation is, Peacefully participate for an hour, or a day. It is your voice that needs to be heard!
SilverStar830 on April 24, 2009 at 11:52 PM
First God made the Idiot. That was for practice. Then God made Jimmy Carter. That was for more practice. Then God made Barack Obama.
- Channeling Mark Twain
MB4 on April 24, 2009 at 11:54 PM
You forget the main principle behind capitalism. Trade results in mutual benefit, why else would it happen? Equal value trade is meaningless.
Free Constitution on April 24, 2009 at 11:56 PM
I like it obladioblada! Especially #5, but who’s going to investigate? The media won’t and that’s where it must start.
I think we must save some of the tea parties for the front doors of the MSM. They’re as corrupt as those in Washington and they can’t ignore us if we’re parked on their lawns.
SoldiersMom on April 24, 2009 at 11:58 PM
If the protests are to protest the growth of government, they should not be called Tea Parties. They should be called anti-socialism rallies or something.
Speedwagon82 on April 24, 2009 at 11:58 PM
First God made the flu. That was for practice. Then God made pneumonia. That was for more practice. Then God made Barack Obama.
- Channeling Mark Twain
MB4 on April 24, 2009 at 11:58 PM
I’m glad to see people are talking about another Tea Party. I thought that maybe “the movement” had died a one-hit wonder death.
How do you have a Tea Party on the 4th of July when there will be other people at parades and picnics and fireworks displays? You won’t have any publicity. You’ll be lost in the crowds. Just saying.
cjs1943 on April 24, 2009 at 11:58 PM
MB4,
Your channeling of Mark Twain is good.
cjs1943 on April 24, 2009 at 11:59 PM
Something has to be done about the out-of-control power wielding by federal agencies, too. Agencies like the EPA are establishing mandates without being answerable to the electorate.
We are losing our representation in the process of government legislation. Our senators and representatives do not listen to us. Arbitrary rules are set up in Congress that disallow the voice of the opposition. Laws and bills are passed without any deliberation even though these laws and bills incur expensive consequences.
The tea parties represented a groundswell of frustration and anger by the silent majority who pay their taxes but who see abuse of their money by those charged with being good stewards. The tea parties were a united reminder to our government that it does not have the money. We do. And we have the right to determine how our money is or is not spent.
onlineanalyst on April 24, 2009 at 11:59 PM
I really like your 5 Points.
Ted Torgerson on April 25, 2009 at 12:00 AM
MB4 on April 25, 2009 at 12:00 AM
Why would I not be taxed if I yielded 50 dollars from the sale of melons of which I invested 50 dollars?
Saltysam on April 25, 2009 at 12:03 AM
Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing all the problems incorrectly and then misapplying all the wrong remedies.
- channeling Groucho
MB4 on April 25, 2009 at 12:04 AM
Like your list. I’d add Constitutional Amendment for Term Limits (2 terms max) for Congress. No retirement pay since maximum of 12 years in office. No perks beyond some staff and salary. We need to end the professional politician and the junk about putting party ahead of the country. Might cut the corruption in Washington with that change alone.
BTW my sign (which I found somewhere on the net): “Cap the budget and trade the politicians: Term limits!”
Christian Conservative on April 25, 2009 at 12:08 AM
Good catch.
Want to end up mired in internal debate and end up neutering the entire movement? Then start focusing on things that are irrelevant…like anti-socialism. Smacks of weakness. Also doesn’t have that biting edge and ability to rally the masses. Most Americans could define socialism if their lives depended on it…and it does, today.
Jefferson rallies? Perhaps. [If only Americans were actually conversant in Jeffersonianism.]
Tea Parties? So long as it harkens back to Boston, prior to our own Revolution, yes, it does have a simplicity about it. Taxation without representation and all that.
But, by any means, ours has to be a focused and pro-America movement…pro what the Founders spelled out for all of us with extreme care and parsing, executing the necessary phrases so that We, The People, could easily understand and digest the same, long before our government became mired itself in legalese, which they themselves no longer seem to understand, either, it seems.
coldwarrior on April 25, 2009 at 12:09 AM
Most Americans could define socialism…
Most Americans couldn’t define socialism…
coldwarrior on April 25, 2009 at 12:11 AM
Saltysam on April 25, 2009 at 12:03 AM
Uh, because you gained absolutely nothing. If you yieled 51 dollars because the demand for melons rose, then in theory you would be taxed. Man creates wealth.
If you build a house from the surrounding wood, you in fact have not created any new physical thing, but you did create something valuable, and if you sold what you built, you would receive taxable income.
Free Constitution on April 25, 2009 at 12:11 AM
I also heard he’s secretly a Muslim. And that he’s building FEMA camps to round us up.
/tinfoil
Free Constitution on April 24, 2009 at 11:40 PM
My son called before the election. We had a long conversation the upcoming election and Obama. My son said Obama is also a Muslim. I said, no, he’s not. He said “Mom, in his heart, he’s a Muslim.” I couldn’t argue with that.
Also, he spent about 9 months in the Phillipines this past year. He hated every minute of it. There’s alot of terrorist activity there, but the Phils aren’t motivated to fight and our military’s hands are tied by the Phil Constitution. My son said of the Phils “they have a conquered mentality. I’d much rather be in Iraq. They’re motivated.” I’ve thought about that statement alot, especially when people here say “yea, I’m upset, but what can you do about it.” That’s defeatist talk. You can write your Congressman, you can get engaged. Go to each and every tea party protest out there.
As for the FEMA camp, that’s been debunked. No need to go there.
SoldiersMom on April 25, 2009 at 12:12 AM
Saltysam on April 25, 2009 at 12:03 AM
Uh, because you gained absolutely nothing. If you yieled 51 dollars because the demand for melons rose, then in theory you would be taxed. Man creates wealth.
If you build a house from the surrounding wood, you in fact have not created any new physical thing, but you did create something valuable, and if you sold what you built, you would receive taxable income.
Free Constitution on April 25, 2009 at 12:12 AM
I think I may have gotten too heated in my last, for which I blame the beer, delicious beer, which I have been drinking tonight, and I therefore amend as follows:
pomerpants on April 25, 2009 at 12:13 AM
I like your idea of a new Contract with America, whatever it would be titled. However, since constitutional amendments require super majorities in both chambers, and Republicans will have trouble flipping both chambers, let alone getting super-majorities, I suggest setting those aside for a moment.
I very much like these two points of yours and imagine they would resonate well with majorities of voters:
Fiscal and national security issues seem to be the most obvious areas where Obama vulnerable. How can we get agreements on other points in these areas? And then there are the issues important to social and cultural conservatives…
How do individual conservatives formulate such a plan? A brainstorming thread here followed by AOL polling? I have no idea.
Loxodonta on April 25, 2009 at 12:16 AM
coldwarrior on April 25, 2009 at 12:09 AM
I think there is no more pro-America cause, in the context of what you are suggesting, than a movement to repeal the 16th amendment.
It was the camel’s nose that snuck under the tent, and is the primary conduit from which the State has usurped its ominous power.
Saltysam on April 25, 2009 at 12:16 AM
Agreed.
But, if our overlords were following the Constitution they wouldn’t be handing out bail-out money, taking over companies, nationalizing health care or telling states that they have to buckle their seat-belts, would they?
And if we don’t tell our overlords what we expect of them they can continue to say that our protests are pointless and we have no goals.
obladioblada on April 25, 2009 at 12:16 AM
Yes to all, especially your correction.
Loxodonta on April 25, 2009 at 12:17 AM
Just in case none of those remedies work you will need a backup plan.
May I make a suggestion?
Then they can gaze on our Goddess of Justice
With her shimmering, glimmering blade
As she kisses these traitors she will sing them a last serenade
The world may be ugly, but sometimes each man must do what he must
Give in fowl politicians, in a year you will be dust
Now come let our lady possess you
In her breathtaking, hair-raising bed
She will tingle your spine
As she captures your heart and your head!
PercyB on April 25, 2009 at 12:18 AM
How do you have a Tea Party on the 4th of July when there will be other people at parades and picnics and fireworks displays? You won’t have any publicity. You’ll be lost in the crowds. Just saying.
cjs1943 on April 24, 2009 at 11:58 PM
I don’t know, why don’t we form tea parties at planned fireworks displays throught the Nation. What better way to advertise liberty (lost)? Get on the street corners where alot of people are driving. My sister was out of town on 4/15, but called me that night. She was exhilerated by all the people on the streets she saw when she was driving through town – they were holding up signs and garnered alot of honks. We don’t need the media to be recognized. This is grassroots.
SoldiersMom on April 25, 2009 at 12:21 AM
Failing a military coup, they can continue to ignore us and say our protests are pointless. The White House has already indicated its readiness to declare a political opinion a crime (the DHS memo) as well as differing legal opinions. They don’t give a shit what you expect of them.
pomerpants on April 25, 2009 at 12:21 AM
Yes, we ought to throw the vast majority of them out. I agree we need a more unified message, and yours is close. I think if we kept it simple, it would be easier for us and harder for them to miss it.
CUT SPENDING
CUT TAXES
CUT GOVERNMENT
Free Constitution on April 25, 2009 at 12:21 AM
The income tax doesn’t tax you on your labor, or the “profit” on it….the income tax taxes you on the transaction between labor and dollars.
A simple example….assume you are a sculptor. Spend all day crafting clay ashtrays or whatever. That isn’t a taxable event, therefore rebutting the claim that the income tax is a tax on labor. However, when you go to sell the ashtrays, that results in a taxable transaction…because the income tax is concerned with the transaction, not the underlying labor.
Also, as for the claim that a person owns his labor…how can someone lay an ownership claim on something he hasn’t done yet…?
JohnTant on April 25, 2009 at 12:22 AM
Plain and simple is good. Can we add:
END GOVERNMENT CORRUPTION
(and something about national security?)
Loxodonta on April 25, 2009 at 12:27 AM
The gain of the cash minus the value of the house equals zero.
Saltysam on April 25, 2009 at 12:29 AM
The proposed amendments are talking points that set an agenda. So we don’t get actual amendments, we do tell DC what behavior is expected of it. We aren’t about to accept the government owning and competing private enterprise. (Why hasn’t anyone challenged the Constitutionality of the bail outs and micromanaging of private business, anyway?)
Brainstorming is necessary, but some small group would need to propose a platform. Not everyone is going to buy into it, the protesters are nonpartisan and decentralized and there should not be a formal leadership. But a platform that is discussed in multiple forums is going to develop an informal consensus among movement people. Individuals may be more concerned about one or more issues, but at least we’d be debating the same issues.
Besides, we tend to discuss the same issues over and over again, anyway. We already have informal consensus, we’re really talking about summarizing what’s already been discussed ad infinitum. However a final product is worded, we’d be talking about the same things.
obladioblada on April 25, 2009 at 12:29 AM
I, Tuco Ramirez, will tell you something. Those politicians think they are better than I am. Where I came from, if one did not want to have to do actual work for a living, one became a politician or a bandit. They chose their way, I chose mine. Mine was harder! I don’t remember for how long, but I tried the political path! I tried, but it was no good! My standards may be low but I do have some standards. Now I am going to tell them something… they became politicians because they are too cowardly to do what I do.
Tuco on April 25, 2009 at 12:31 AM
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