Shep flips out: “We do not f***ing torture!”
posted at 3:25 pm on April 23, 2009 by Allahpundit
From yesterday’s “Strategy Room,” a candid if predictable reaction to Blair’s admission that enhanced interrogation works: “I don’t give a rat’s ass if it helps!” Most of the mindless absolutism on this subject has come from the left; nice to see Shep upholding the tradition. Pew’s out with a poll today that I’m reluctant to link because the margin of error by party is so huge (eight points in the case of the GOP), but for what it’s worth, 49 percent of the public thinks torturing terrorists is often or sometimes justified, including 54 percent of independents. Toss in those who say it’s justified in rare cases and you’re up to 71 percent. The most interesting data point is the partisan shift in the last few months. As of February, 22 percent of Republicans said it was often justified versus just nine percent of Dems; two months into Hopenchange, the GOP number’s down to 15 and the Democratic number’s up to 12, proving that America’s comfort with the practice depends to some extent on how much they trust the occupant of the White House. In fact, only 44 percent of independents thought torture was at least sometimes justified as of February versus 54 percent now — which suggests, ironically, that their greater confidence in Obama not to abuse the practice has made them more enthusiastic for it.
While we’re on this topic, I should correct an egregious error I made yesterday. In the Hillary post, I said that the torture debate isn’t academic. In reality, it’s entirely academic. Read Gutfeld’s latest and you’ll see why. When push comes to shove, if Obama has reason to believe that detainees in CIA custody have info that might stop an impending attack, rest assured that he’ll give the order to slap it out of them if need be. If he doesn’t and we’re hit, he’s finished politically; whatever queasiness about stress positions that the public feels now will evaporate and they’ll turn on him viciously, and he surely knows it. Even if he’s personally squeamish, he’s not going to blow his shot at a second term for the sake of not breaking Andrew Sullivan’s bleeding heart. Content warning.
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I completely agree with Shep. We don’t torture. Though we may occasionally use waterboarding, which is very uncomfortable.
But then, so is driving in any major city.
hawksruleva on April 23, 2009 at 4:10 PM
BadgerHawk, pain is a feeling. Yet again, you avoid the heart of the matter.
starfleet_dude on April 23, 2009 at 4:10 PM
You really think it’s that hard to tell if they’re guilty? Really?
TheUnrepentantGeek on April 23, 2009 at 4:11 PM
Medieval Waterboarding and SERE Waterboarding are not the same thing.
Medieval version is torture, it forces water into the lungs and you literally nearly drown, where as SERE version is only the sensation, but water is not forced into the lungs.
jp on April 23, 2009 at 4:11 PM
Let put Shep in a car with my Mom who has a lead foot and only takes it off seconds before she stops. THAT is torture… as you don’t know if you will live thru it.
upinak on April 23, 2009 at 4:11 PM
OMG! I just realized that when I jump into a swimming pool without plugging my nose, sometimes water gets into my upper nasal cavity. I hate it, and now I know why! It is TORTURE! And it is all Bush/Cheney’s fault!
gatorboy on April 23, 2009 at 4:11 PM
Hmmm again.
Grow Fins on April 23, 2009 at 4:12 PM
reasonable voices are not allowed on Shep’s drama stage. You are obviously much too informed to be a welcome contributor to the discussion
gatorboy on April 23, 2009 at 4:12 PM
Sucks to be them and have chosen to tempt fate against the United State Military and United Stated Central Intelligence Agency.
thomasaur on April 23, 2009 at 4:13 PM
Can the Red Eye guys kidnap Shep and waterboard him? Please… that would be great comedy
gatorboy on April 23, 2009 at 4:13 PM
When doing justice is the point, torture makes achieving it practically impossible as those subject to it will say anything to end it, lies, truth, nonsense, whatever. That’s also why torture is counterproductive as a way to get good intelligence.
starfleet_dude on April 23, 2009 at 4:13 PM
Libs:
1) Cracking babies skull open and sucking out its brain, while in process of delivery: LEGAL
2) limited use of SERE derived ‘water boarding’, against 3 members of Al-Qaeda is ‘torture’ and should be: ILLEGAL
See how absolutely RETARDED and AMORAL these people are?
jp on April 23, 2009 at 4:13 PM
*lol*
RepubChica on April 23, 2009 at 4:13 PM
Heck, by that definition, Marriage, Having babies and watching Fellini movies must be banned.
LegendHasIt on April 23, 2009 at 4:14 PM
Look, thank you for your service to this country.
However, you are wrong. First, torture is against the law. We have strict rules regarding combat and you fought to uphold those laws, remember?
Second, having a government-sponsored system of torture sets unbelievable precedents for future administrations as well as federal, state, and local law enforcement agencies. If this stands where would the line be drawn? How is torturing the detainees any different from us torturing a fifteen year old because he may know about an armed bank robbery that might take place? Any lawyer can connect those dots and justify torture in those circumstances.
Third, torture isn’t even the most effective way to elicit information. You have a smaller chance of being assured that the information is accurate as the person will say anything to stop the torture.
ckoeber on April 23, 2009 at 4:14 PM
We do torture. Salem witch trials, American Indians-trail of tears, Japanese internment camps and so on. Obama should be okay with this after all just about every other country has tortured Americans. From Tarletons quarter to Vietnam. From China to Iraq They have all tortured American citizens.This is all a distraction. Watch them squirm and try to lie their way out of it,but really watch what the left hand is doing while the right one dealing the cards.
We are weakened by this fiasco. The entire world is watching while Obama’s comedy of errors plays out.
canditaylor68 on April 23, 2009 at 4:14 PM
Sure! :P
We need to remember the context of all this. It didn’t happen many years after 9/11. It was in the year and a half after it. There’s not a single person in this country who thought that we’d go this long and not have another big attack on the country. All the people who were screaming at Bush and co. for not protecting us are the ones now Monday Morning Quarterbacking this. As so eloquently stated by Maverick Muse above, the number one job of the government is to protect its citizens. There are things I’ll certainly hang on President Bush’s head, but keeping us safe is not one of them.
bikermailman on April 23, 2009 at 4:14 PM
There are those that think it is torture and is wrong no matter the benefit to America.
There are those that do not feel is is torture and appreciate the benefits.
I don’t care if it is torture. It seems to be a damn good strategy to get information when we need it. The proof is that these guys who got waterboarded, are still very much alive. The people is LA are very much alive. The victims of the WTC and Pentagon, are dead. Which group would you rather be part of?
John D on April 23, 2009 at 4:14 PM
Survivors were bribed to STFU.
High school grads from 2001 and younger remember it like a movie memory. It was as real as it dealt with them personally. If they weren’t directly affected, it didn’t really matter given time.
Socialists want another 9/11.
maverick muse on April 23, 2009 at 4:14 PM
Good point. The US soldiers who captured them in battle and otherwise did have a choice though, and that choice was to let this little jihadis live to breath another day. They could just have easily been killed in battle, or a gun fight and then we wouldn’t be having this discussion, would we?
gatorboy on April 23, 2009 at 4:15 PM
Hrm. So you against the ending of innocent life? I’m sure the left could come up with dozens of reasons that terrorist baby shoudln’t even be born. He might grow up to be poor, or a terrorist himself. Or his mom would be inconvenienced. Or, it’s easier to make bombs without a child around.
Regardless, if you’re asking me to choose between a terrorist’s baby and my neighbor’s baby? I know what I’d choose. As for bombing a small city to save a large one – absolutely. If airstrikes on Swat could eliminate UBL, I’d be in favor of it, even if that doesn’t 100% eliminate the chance of another attack.
Those are the sort of decisions that Presidents make. Flip them around and ask yourself what you’d do. Would you let a large city get bombed rather a small one? Would you let hundreds of children die to save a terrorist baby?
hawksruleva on April 23, 2009 at 4:15 PM
two words for Shep: Iron Maiden.
kirkill on April 23, 2009 at 4:15 PM
Add listening to a speech by barry w/o TOTUS.
thomasaur on April 23, 2009 at 4:16 PM
I gotta go. You have to carry the torch for a bit or the lefties are going to distort what the US approved waterboarding is and what it constitutes.
BadgerHawk on April 23, 2009 at 4:16 PM
Bye starfleet.
BadgerHawk on April 23, 2009 at 4:17 PM
They had more choice than office workers in the Twin Towers had. They CHOSE to become a terrorist. Choices have consequences.
hawksruleva on April 23, 2009 at 4:17 PM
I guess infanticide is OK when practiced on the ‘other side’, eh, hypocrite? I’m glad you understand the complicities we all share in for our forebears torture, murder, theft, and aggression against those weaker and more defenseless than they. Refreshing to see, coming from the right. But I fail to see how our inhumane history suddenly renders the law, and morality moot. Quite the opposite I’d argue. So untwist your panties, take a deep breath, and understand that our problems in the Middle East stem from issues a little more substantive than whether or not “our women wear shorts.”
Grow Fins on April 23, 2009 at 4:17 PM
Ok biker…
In my runnings around the lower 48… Nuclear power plants are a prime target. WHY? Because they are always near a body of water and will do the most damage to Americans. Power plants of the U.S. don’t have a chance if these are taken out. We WILL be back in the stone age as no on knows how to survive off of it.
So anwhere a Nuclear Plant is… and the closer to a major U.S. city, the better. I.E. keep an eye on our Canadian Cousins everyone.. they do fuel quite a bit of energy to the Eastern part of the U.S.
Ok Biker how was that?
upinak on April 23, 2009 at 4:18 PM
You’re still avoiding dealing with what torture is and only fooling yourself as a result, dude. Waterboarding. Is. Torture.
starfleet_dude on April 23, 2009 at 4:18 PM
…for the new page.
maverick muse on April 23, 2009 at 4:19 PM
The UAE sheik torturing somebody who might have shorted him on a grain shipment:
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=7402099&page=1
cattle prods and fire on sensitive body parts, running over the man’s legs with his mercedes, etc, etc.
that’s torture.
Shep, you might want to look into that…..or not. I guess it wouldn’t allow Shep to rant and scream about imagined evils perpetrated by American men.
funky chicken on April 23, 2009 at 4:19 PM
The libwits would pull out their opponents gonads with the Jaws of Life in a flash if they thought it would get them 1% in the polls.
The “debate” on torture is the most hypocritical of anything going on right now.
If a libwit is opposed to something, there is only one thing you can absolutely depend on….the libwit does it.
notagool on April 23, 2009 at 4:20 PM
You’re joking, right? Our people can object by removing themselves from the program. Their people have the same ability by cooperating in saving lives, thereby removing themselves from the program. Enhanced interrogation isn’t used on every third person to leave the super market, but on those who are reasonably believed to have valuable intel.
littleguy on April 23, 2009 at 4:20 PM
I’ll ignore the massive assumptions you are making in your set of questions and ask the unanswered question: How are we different from our enemies at this point?
Great, we feel good for a day. We may or may not have saved some lives. At the end of the day, however, we are back to where we started however. Another terrorism attack, rinse, repeat. We attack, they attack, etc. etc.
When does “victory” occur?
ckoeber on April 23, 2009 at 4:21 PM
That’s another reason the Japanese guy we prosecuted was punished. He actually put water into the lungs, along with beating people to a pulp, broke arms, etc.
There’s room here for honest debate about the matter. People like Judge Napalitano, and some here truly disagree with the practice, and can make an argument for their positions. Them I can talk to. Others, no names mentioned, are out to simply Bush-bash. If it had been The One authorizing this, they’d be on their knees thanking Him.
bikermailman on April 23, 2009 at 4:21 PM
Under BadgerHawk’s logic “U.S. approved carpet bombing” isn’t bombing either. Riight. Sorry, but whether it’s approved by the U.S. or not, waterboarding is still torture by any definition.
starfleet_dude on April 23, 2009 at 4:22 PM
Bank robberies don’t kill thousands of people. That’s how it’s different. Police do shoot people if innocent lives are threatened. It’s a justified use of force.
You say torture isn’t effective – but, we saved a building in Los Angeles, AND THE PEOPLE IN IT, through waterboarding. Does that mean waterboarding isn’t torture?
hawksruleva on April 23, 2009 at 4:22 PM
Beck’s ratings are killing Shep…
d1carter on April 23, 2009 at 4:22 PM
idiot,
Abu Zubadah was captured and Waterboarded in July 2002(Condi Rice authorized it).
The info gathered led to the capture of Omar al-Faruq, he was but one leader planning this.
Later in 2002, this same AQ Terrorist Group: Jemaah Islamiyah, pulled off that Bali bombings.
in March 2003, KSM was captured, thanks to Intel provided by Abu Zubadah…who was Waterboarded
That Spring, of 2003, the Men in this cell were arrested except for Hambali who was captured in August 2003, was the Leader at that point per KSM….who the LA Tower Plot was left with.
So it got thwarted TWICE, once in 2002 and again nabbing Everyone in 2003!!!! Thanks to both Abu Zubadah and KSM being Waterboarded
jp on April 23, 2009 at 4:22 PM
Putting everyone in the same category, I see. Can you also tell by looking at them if they are evil?
ckoeber on April 23, 2009 at 4:22 PM
When does “victory” occur?
ckoeber on April 23, 2009 at 4:21 PM
When they are all dead.
John D on April 23, 2009 at 4:23 PM
You’re a lawyer, are you? Let’s try out the “by any definition” theory. I define torture as something you wouldn’t do to your own soldiers. By that definition, is waterboarding torture?
hawksruleva on April 23, 2009 at 4:23 PM
I like the report about placing bugs on detainees. I work in pest control. If that is tortured, I’m tortured on a daily basis.
jimmy2shoes on April 23, 2009 at 4:24 PM
No we didn’t.
Grow Fins on April 23, 2009 at 4:24 PM
When the animals decide to stop attacking a country that has never attacked them unprovoked.
thomasaur on April 23, 2009 at 4:24 PM
If you don’t have common sense enough to figure out on your own who is not someone you would want to hang around with… you need to be schooled. But I doubt you even got disaplined as a child…
upinak on April 23, 2009 at 4:24 PM
can we chant “USA, USA” now, or later?
Grow Fins on April 23, 2009 at 4:24 PM
Actually, on the left there’s been plenty of criticism of Obama’s and Rahm’s comments about not pursuing those in the CIA who conducted the now infamous waterboarding. Believe it or not, it really is a matter of principle to them.
starfleet_dude on April 23, 2009 at 4:24 PM
Listen folks – the chances of torture ever being necessary to stop an imminent attack are so slim, it’s almost not worth talking about. Those who defend torture are essentially defending something abhorrent for no good reason. The simple fact is, the “ticking bomb” hypothetical is just not going to happen. It’s like getting in high dudgeon over the government not protecting Americans from lightning strikes.
Really, it’s just not going to happen. Shep is right. Stop acting like he’s some kind of Fox News traitor. Grow up.
Enrique on April 23, 2009 at 4:25 PM
so in 2003, after KSM had been arrested the Plot was handed off to Hamboli who was still plotting this.
This group had been successful with other attacks, its idiotic to think that no attack would occur if not for catching KSM and Zubadah and interrogating them.
What do you think anyway? That Condi Rice and the CIA were just making stuff up for their memo’s and Condi gets her kicks from dumping KSM’s head in water?
jp on April 23, 2009 at 4:26 PM
I don’t believe that this discussion was about abortion, and therefore you haven’t the foggiest what my position on abortion is, and therefore, your accusation of ‘hypocrite’ is baseless. Nice intellectual consistency. Pretty much what I’d expect of someone with the soft squishy reasoning of the whining Left.
The world has all the rules of a prison shower. People like you want the US to drop the soap. Repeatedly. Given your probably proclivities, I understand this drive. Why don’t you move to Liberia where you can allow yourself to be victimized without dragging the rest of us down for the sake of your rich white guilt?
quikstrike98 on April 23, 2009 at 4:26 PM
No, but I don’t have to. The THREE people on whom we used enhanced interrogation techniques are in a different category than ordinary “I only make bombs and shoot people” terrorists at GITMO. Where are all of these innocent detainees? Why won’t other nations accept released detainees, if they’re so peace-loving?
If you like to take a nuanced look at the issue, don’t lump all detainees together. It’s not like everyone at GITMO was waterboarded.
hawksruleva on April 23, 2009 at 4:26 PM
Looks like Shep is from the Dana White school of using the F bomb.
What I would counter to Shep is that under “Liberalese” ANY interrogation technique short of politely asking a terrorist a question is considered “torture”.
What is funny is that for the most part Liberals constantly base their actions on “the greater good” but bail on that when a single person holds the key to thousands of innocent lives; in that case, they seem to think it is just a cultural difference, and well, they are just angry killers who are misunderstood, had a bad childhood, ect.
darkmetal on April 23, 2009 at 4:26 PM
Lost in translation: it’s not about whether torture is legal–torture is a federal crime, and it has been since the 1990s. It’s about whether or not the interrogation techniques used by the CIA are, in fact, types of torture.
Shep and many others are right to be adamant against torture, since it’s a crime no less than murder or theft. (Some may wish that were not the case, but I believe the GOP Congress may have enacted the law.)
However, this obscures the fact that none but the Justice Marshall types would oppose all forms of interrogation, whether torturous or not. Interrogation is an essential tool for law enforcement, and will always be.
President Obama was allowed to act all gracious toward law enforcement by opposing the prosecution of CIA agents. Knowledge of the criminal law is presumed, yes, but if it’s a matter of considerable disagreement then there’s really no case to be made. (Exhibit A of why the law is silly would be the many definitions which have to be understood in order to interpet and follow it.)
Obama has dispensed with all reason, though, in allowing the Left to open fire on former Justice Department attorneys. “Conspiracy to torture”? Come on, that’s ridiculous. May it serve as the final strike against an administration that is increasingly wearing out its welcome before the 100-day mark.
cackcon on April 23, 2009 at 4:27 PM
The reason some soldiers (not by any means all) are subject to waterboarding is precisely because it’s seen as a method of torture. Duh.
starfleet_dude on April 23, 2009 at 4:27 PM
I don’t see how destroying the will and spirit of evil men is considered torture.
YoungAmerican on April 23, 2009 at 4:28 PM
The detainees, whether innocent or guilty, did not even have a remote choice of objecting.
Neither did the innocents on the planes, or in the towers. Nor did the soldiers who were decapitated, and mutilated.
capejasmine on April 23, 2009 at 4:28 PM
can we chant “USA, USA” now, or later?
Grow Fins on April 23, 2009 at 4:24 PM
yes
John D on April 23, 2009 at 4:28 PM
Fixed.
LegendHasIt on April 23, 2009 at 4:14 PM
Sefton on April 23, 2009 at 4:28 PM
upinak on April 23, 2009 at 4:18 PM
I think we misunderstood each other. My point was that the Left, who wants soooo much to not even put a caterpillar on someone, appears to be willing to sacrifice too many people just to satisfy their own sense of morality.
I agree about the grid thing. Although, if it comes, I’m guessing it’ll come from one missle detonated 300 miles above Kansas, or two, shot from either coast at a much lower altitude. Do that, and up there in AK is going to be about the only place left north of Central America in the modern age.
bikermailman on April 23, 2009 at 4:29 PM
I am finished watching Shep,the moron.
He was so upset after 9/11 but now..no f***ing torture!! Hypocrite!
becki51758 on April 23, 2009 at 4:29 PM
heh
maverick muse on April 23, 2009 at 4:29 PM
Enrique,
IF we had the data that 9/11 was going to happen, had captured on of the participants, are you saying that enhanced interrogation techniques like waterboarding couldn’t have stopped it?
Saying it is “not going to happen” is pre-9/11 mentality. It DID happen, and the second wave was stopped via such techniques.
I believe your point is totally countered, sir.
darkmetal on April 23, 2009 at 4:30 PM
kewl
Grow Fins on April 23, 2009 at 4:30 PM
Lets just call waterboarding what everyone called it in grammer school SWIRLEYS.
Of course the only ones that receive the swirleys were the ones that grew up to be leftist. Anyone want to bet William Ayers,Ward Churchill,Barack Obama were targets of the dreaded swirleys in the 4th grade LOL?
Kevin43 on April 23, 2009 at 4:30 PM
Depends on that caterpillar! People are pretty dumb concerning insects.
Yep… it will be a grid thing. For sure… just how is what I am wondering, and who.
upinak on April 23, 2009 at 4:31 PM
He needs to be up against Meghan Kelly. She says torture was defined yrs ago and waterboarding is not torture.
She would kick his a$$!
becki51758 on April 23, 2009 at 4:31 PM
Point, but I think their ‘outrage’ is due to it being Bush/Cheney involved. Could be wrong, it has happened once or twice. :P
bikermailman on April 23, 2009 at 4:31 PM
As to how effective torture is for getting good intelligence:
starfleet_dude on April 23, 2009 at 4:32 PM
The Democrats are torturing the American people right now!
I agree with Shep, I think… We do not torture. When did torture start to include things that make people uncomfortable like waterboarding and sleep depravation? Have the Liberals come out about using drugs to make people talk? I would guess that would be bad too, afterall it is injecting a man-made chemical into people that would probably cause global warming.
jeffn21 on April 23, 2009 at 4:32 PM
The funny thing is the captured Islamists weren’t complaining, at least not until their leftist lawyers told them to, it’s always been a complaint of the left. A tool to degrade our self defense against these bastards even more.
Look, these guys are ready to die trying to kill us … do you really think they give a damn about cold, water, bugs and loud music? They probably expected much, much worse and were relieved to discover we’re pussies controlled by political correctness and communist overlords.
darwin on April 23, 2009 at 4:34 PM
Sorry but I have a hard time taking all of this torture stuff seriously when I see people lined up to get on reality shows to do much worse. I mean not only do they have to GET in a box with the bugs but sometimes they have to EAT them! Are we going to start going after the producers of Fear Factor next?
ort777 on April 23, 2009 at 4:34 PM
Just make sure you hit Berekely.
HornetSting on April 23, 2009 at 4:34 PM
By liberal definition my entire childhood was torture. Guess what, you suck it up and move on. Shep’s problem is he never got a really good ass whupping.
TXMomof3 on April 23, 2009 at 4:35 PM
ort777 on April 23, 2009 at 4:34 PM
Great point. Maybe we can start a new reality show …
darwin on April 23, 2009 at 4:36 PM
Ummm….grown-ups allow for opposing viewpoints and civil discussion (too bad you don’t)…Shep is the one that got all loco and childish, using the f-word during eating mama’s meatloaf…tsk tsk…
RepubChica on April 23, 2009 at 4:36 PM
Of course that is what the FBI would say. Why on earth would they attribute any success to the CIA?
gatorboy on April 23, 2009 at 4:36 PM
How about putting America in a position where we don’t need to make these choices in the first place? We are under the mindset of “Might makes Right”. Everything done through the use of the Military is just.
Difficult decisions are inevitable. But we will look back and ask ourselves “did we make the right choice, or just the expediant one?”
Everything in life is not like an episode of 24.
ckoeber on April 23, 2009 at 4:36 PM
we probably do have a whole generation of adults now who were punished by “time out” growing up
jp on April 23, 2009 at 4:37 PM
get out of me HEAD!
upinak on April 23, 2009 at 4:37 PM
…says the head of the CIA counter-terrorism task force….
RepubChica on April 23, 2009 at 4:38 PM
I would seriously love to see how these Libs and others would try to get information out of people…
Unfit For The Internet on April 23, 2009 at 4:38 PM
Sure thing, darwin. Just call it Gitmo Factor and we won’t have to close the place down. Give the winning terrorist a turban and maybe put it on tv. All we need to find is a host…gee, will Shep be available after this rant?
ort777 on April 23, 2009 at 4:38 PM
That would be great – except the moon is airless and not much fun.
Heaven is nice – but you have to die (and be Christian) to get there.
Now, He comes later and rules the place for a thousand years – then we can try your way – and it will work.
Until then – welcome to Earth!
kybowexar on April 23, 2009 at 4:39 PM
You’ve been through SERE?
I’ve been through SERE at Camp Mackall NC in 1983 and I’m here to tell you WE were waterboarded and NOT this pantywaste baptism that leftist are crying about. My ass was strapped to a board over a stock tank and my feet were raised and my head went UNDER WATER.
Is it wrong?….NO! Is it illegal, NO. Is it torture? i really don’t care if it is or not, it works and if ANYONE out there says it doesn’t I’ll waterboard YOUR chickenshit ass and see how long YOU last.
Let me put this where EVERYONE can understand it. I would do ANYTHING to protect my kids, your kids or ANYONE’S kids from these animals in the middle east or ANYONE that would threaten their lives and if YOU don’t have the guts to do it, I WILL and if you think you could arrest me for it, PLEASE TRY.
I’ve had it with gutless pantywastes who would put MY kids and MY family in danger and I won’t stand for criminals in the O’bunghole admin to make a mockery out of my country’s attempt to protect my family.
nelsonknows on April 23, 2009 at 4:39 PM
You’re right. Real life means deciding which side you want to win, which side you want to lose, and ACT LIKE IT. Let me make it easy for you: They die. We live. Or the other way around. Which do you prefer? Make your decision, and either get the f*** out of this country which protects you, or support those who defend us.
quikstrike98 on April 23, 2009 at 4:39 PM
Life is not an episode of Hannah Montana either – thank God…
kybowexar on April 23, 2009 at 4:39 PM
Which is why I loooovvvveeee my 1 1/2 mile, five min commute, and if I have to go to the ‘city’ nearby, waiting through more than one round of traffic lights is ‘gridlock’.
Upinak, my guess is Iranian or NORK missles, launched from a Venezualan freighter, that has some other flag on it. Without missle defense deployed, and esp if it’s both coasts (less flight time, lower alt.), we’re toast. I need to look into Faraday shielding for the car, and backup methods for the house are already deployed… :D
bikermailman on April 23, 2009 at 4:39 PM
Torture with a catapillar? We do worse on a daily basis to our trolls.
Waterboarding?-high school nerds that will later be masters of the universe are being ‘swirlied’ by jocks that will be asking those nerds for a job at their million dollar company.
HornetSting on April 23, 2009 at 4:40 PM
Sorry if someone already said this, but I’ve been around a few drunks in my lifetime. Shep’s got all the behaviors of everyone’s “Uncle Bob” who always drinks a little too much at the family gatherings and starts pounding his fist on Grandma’s good dining room table while dropping slurred F-bombs. I think Shep’s liquid lunches are catching up with him.
Rational Thought on April 23, 2009 at 4:42 PM
LOL! Mueller has no idea what the CIA was doing, thanks to the “wall” put in place under Clinton. That’s why he said “I don’t believe” not “I know.” And his use of the term “coercive” is deliberately vague. Coercive could mean holding someone in a cell until they give you information.
Deanna on April 23, 2009 at 4:42 PM
I have tried to keep an open mind about this thread, given that our three slowest trolls are here, but I can not.
You see, I have children.
If I captured one of the kidnappers of one of my children I would ask once for my kids location. Then there would be the first .22 bullet to the ankle and I would ask again. I would continue to ask until I was sure I knew where they were and then I would go retrieve them. I have seen too many parents burying their kids or getting sent their body parts so that the kidnappers can show they are “serious” for me to believe that one will get pity from our enemies. Odds are 50/50 if you pay. Mexico is filled with such horror, so much so that if you have a good job in Mexico, you take out kidnapping insurance to hopefully get a piece of your child back.
I have seen the bodies of our Military dragged through the streets under Carter, Clinton, etc. Have we even got any of our prisoners back from the Arabs? Any prisoner exchanges? ANY?
This with the Gitmo prisoners fat and happy (food, 5 prayer sessions, etc) They should be getting pork chops and cold beans. We face an enemy that tortures and kills and films it for the propaganda and shock value alone.
Certainly we can extract information through means that do not leave a mark or damage the body, even through the use of exotic drugs or tazer. But if all else fails, torture. Even better would be to film the Gitmo prisoners telling their brethren to “stop killing and their path is wrong”, etc.
GunRunner on April 23, 2009 at 4:43 PM
I got put in timeout a lot. It’s called being grounded. Got my butt paddled a lot too. Deserved every single one.
bikermailman on April 23, 2009 at 4:44 PM
the Medieval version they punch you in the stomach while immersed which forces you to intake water.
jp on April 23, 2009 at 4:44 PM
Much better :p
Branch Rickey on April 23, 2009 at 4:45 PM
“I came, I saw, I conquered, I felt really bad about it.” The self-loathing is precious, but if you could just engineer it so that no one else pays the consequences that’d be dandy.
TheUnrepentantGeek on April 23, 2009 at 4:46 PM
I don’t care if it is or isn’t torture. I want our guys, working behind closed doors in secret rooms, doing anything they think will help. I’d give 100 terrorist lives to save 1 innocent American from being slaughtered. Like John Gibson today, he played the horrifying audio from the Kevin Cosgrove phone call from the WTC. You hear the building actually falling down on top of this mean as he screams, “oh my god!!” Listen to that and let your bleeding heart tell me you wouldn’t pull fingernails off if you knew some scumbag had info. on a terrorist attack taking place tomorrow that would annihilate your entire city with a suitcase nuke…the only way to stop it is to get the info. from this lowlife.
It’s insanity. We won’t waterboard monsters, yet we’re all right with dropping 2 ton bombs on the same scumbags (and sometimes their entire families just to get them)? The complete lack of any and all logic in that is insane!
TheBlueSite on April 23, 2009 at 4:46 PM
A guy called Gunny Bob’s show (850 AM, Denver) last night. Said he and his son did it to each other, so they would know what it’s about. About what you’d expect, scary as hell, lasted about a minute. For me, drowning is about the most horrific death one can imagine. I would HATE being waterboarded. However, I’d be willing to undergo it, as have many on the Left the last few years. If it’s something people will willingly do, kinda hard to call it torture.
bikermailman on April 23, 2009 at 4:47 PM
+100
bikermailman on April 23, 2009 at 4:49 PM
One more point: I’d have to say that, having read the statutory definition of torture (which is the basis for determining whether waterboarding or other interrogation techniques constitute federal crimes), I would not have agreed with the green light given to the CIA for waterboarding.
Simulated drowning could easily be considered as causing fear of imminent death. And, again according to statute, this technique would therefore be torturous under federal law.
Don’t shoot the messenger here. I, for one, think the statutory language is too broad if it prevents implementation of waterboarding as a possible interrogation technique. This “fear of imminent death” mushiness (or however it is worded in the statute) is utter nonsense of the sort that the Left has gotten away with for years. I’m sorry, but a little stress induced in detainees in exchange for saving a U.S. city? Please, give me a break.
Sure, ban “torture”; just don’t define torture down. Unfortunately, Congress is not likely to change the statutory language anytime soon. Until it does, many possible interrogation techniques will remain criminal offenses. Talk about a pre-9/11 mentality! (It is, after all a post-Cold War and pre-9/11 law, and therefore reflective of our 1990s “peace in our time” mentality.)
cackcon on April 23, 2009 at 4:49 PM
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