Shep flips out: “We do not f***ing torture!”
posted at 3:25 pm on April 23, 2009 by Allahpundit
From yesterday’s “Strategy Room,” a candid if predictable reaction to Blair’s admission that enhanced interrogation works: “I don’t give a rat’s ass if it helps!” Most of the mindless absolutism on this subject has come from the left; nice to see Shep upholding the tradition. Pew’s out with a poll today that I’m reluctant to link because the margin of error by party is so huge (eight points in the case of the GOP), but for what it’s worth, 49 percent of the public thinks torturing terrorists is often or sometimes justified, including 54 percent of independents. Toss in those who say it’s justified in rare cases and you’re up to 71 percent. The most interesting data point is the partisan shift in the last few months. As of February, 22 percent of Republicans said it was often justified versus just nine percent of Dems; two months into Hopenchange, the GOP number’s down to 15 and the Democratic number’s up to 12, proving that America’s comfort with the practice depends to some extent on how much they trust the occupant of the White House. In fact, only 44 percent of independents thought torture was at least sometimes justified as of February versus 54 percent now — which suggests, ironically, that their greater confidence in Obama not to abuse the practice has made them more enthusiastic for it.
While we’re on this topic, I should correct an egregious error I made yesterday. In the Hillary post, I said that the torture debate isn’t academic. In reality, it’s entirely academic. Read Gutfeld’s latest and you’ll see why. When push comes to shove, if Obama has reason to believe that detainees in CIA custody have info that might stop an impending attack, rest assured that he’ll give the order to slap it out of them if need be. If he doesn’t and we’re hit, he’s finished politically; whatever queasiness about stress positions that the public feels now will evaporate and they’ll turn on him viciously, and he surely knows it. Even if he’s personally squeamish, he’s not going to blow his shot at a second term for the sake of not breaking Andrew Sullivan’s bleeding heart. Content warning.
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Betas don’t do the things that it takes to keep their country safe.
They leave it to the Alphas and then scream with outrage when someone voices their indignation. Shep fits the beta category.
thomasaur on April 23, 2009 at 3:51 PM
I’m not sure: they might say it’s “The will of Allah that things should fall” instead of gravity.
Count to 10 on April 23, 2009 at 3:51 PM
Bring it on. Cheney will wipe the floor with Holder.
fogw on April 23, 2009 at 3:52 PM
Win their hearts and minds? Eliminate root causes like poverty? More foreign aid? Like that? Sounds rilly, rilly good.
a capella on April 23, 2009 at 3:52 PM
They always come back again without any memory of past events. It’s like they don’t even care enough to be dishonest.
I just think these torture threads get them off.
lorien1973 on April 23, 2009 at 3:52 PM
Actually, Holder was supportive of this stuff, as were other Democrats. In 2002.
bikermailman on April 23, 2009 at 3:52 PM
Dude your butt must have a LARGE hole for all that comes out of it.
FYI there pencil penis…. the Dems are in charge.. remember! Them supposed adults! Have been for a few years now, concerning the Senate and Congress…
Please think before you fluff again!
upinak on April 23, 2009 at 3:52 PM
No, my point wasn’t that we engage in those activities now but that by letting waterboarding slide we set the precedent for actions like this to happen.
The whole reason waterboarding was created was to torture someone without leaving any evidence that they were tortured. Why go through all of the trouble as outline in the procedure to elicit information? The point of waterboarding is the same as it is for any other kind of torture, make the conditions for the person you are interrogating so uncomfortable that he/she has no alternative but to comply to whatever demands you outline for compliance.
By saying that waterboarding is OK you are saying we can do whatever we want to the person we are interrogating; as long as the ends justify our means.
ckoeber on April 23, 2009 at 3:53 PM
Look at your kids or parents or loved ones……….would you put pink panties on some Islamic terrorist or play loud RAP “music” to get info out of them to save the lives of your kids? Duh!
Cinday Blackburn on April 23, 2009 at 3:53 PM
fire his *$^*&#$ #$#$ #&$@$ #$@#$ for being such a pansy @ss drama queen
gatorboy on April 23, 2009 at 3:53 PM
BadgerHawk, if you want to argue with the dictionary be my guest:
starfleet_dude on April 23, 2009 at 3:53 PM
I can’t watch the clip right now, if you get my drift. Was someone arguing with Shep? He needs to do strict news.
Cindy Munford on April 23, 2009 at 3:54 PM
An eyerolling smilie would be so appropriate.
katiejane on April 23, 2009 at 3:54 PM
Were you talking about a college frat?
Panties on the head is the least of the crap they do…
MadisonConservative on April 23, 2009 at 3:54 PM
Hey everyone.. remember. These were the people who were never picked on nor ever got in a fight.
They don’t have a clue as to what it means to stand up for yourself.
upinak on April 23, 2009 at 3:54 PM
You’re wrong, guy – truly. If that were true – then any interrogative technique is torture – because stress affects the physical body.
So, now what? Honestly, bad and evil people don’t tell their plans to the good guys like in the movies. So how do the good guys find out what they need to know?
kybowexar on April 23, 2009 at 3:54 PM
Linky thingy for the above.
bikermailman on April 23, 2009 at 3:54 PM
People who think that the US tortures, don’t know what torture is.
It’s closer to growing fins and trying to get a life.
Vince on April 23, 2009 at 3:54 PM
and they’ll be the first to be called to testify on behalf of Condi Rice and company
jp on April 23, 2009 at 3:55 PM
Not really. But glad to see you admit the lie that is American “exceptionalism.”
Grow Fins on April 23, 2009 at 3:55 PM
Shep “Can’t handle the truth!!”
Star20 on April 23, 2009 at 3:55 PM
It’s a pointless discussion. Waterboarding isn’t torture. Yes it is. Not it isn’t. Nananananana…We can lay out the reasons why as has been done repeatedly and they don’t give a crap. It is just another way to say Bush is evil. That is all it has ever been about.
JAM on April 23, 2009 at 3:55 PM
So my life as a single dude was torture?
I really can’t disagree with that …
lorien1973 on April 23, 2009 at 3:55 PM
For anyone interetsed in rehashing the “Does Waterboarding Constitute Torture” debate, revisit the Cheney thread. It gets started from comment #2 and runs through almost two pages, but starfleet_dude ends utterly destroyed and ultimately just kind of gives up.
BadgerHawk on April 23, 2009 at 3:55 PM
Yeah, they look at us then they look at each other and know we are weak.
belad on April 23, 2009 at 3:55 PM
It’s not even about liberal or conservative values. You are saying it is OK to have government sponsered torture.
What happens if, let’s say, we torture a pregnant woman because we want to find out information about what her husband knows?
We are setting the stage for things like that to happen. This has nothing to do with right or left thinking anymore. How much of your values are you willing to sacrifice?
ckoeber on April 23, 2009 at 3:55 PM
Come on getalife, how would you have saved LA?
Elric66 on April 23, 2009 at 3:55 PM
I can’t believe that homo still has a job there… and not because he’s a homo, but because he’s a dope.
D2Boston on April 23, 2009 at 3:55 PM
Said it better than I could have.
ManInBlack on April 23, 2009 at 3:56 PM
By that definition every Prison in America must be shut down immediately.
Dragoonchris on April 23, 2009 at 3:56 PM
I’ll take being yelled at 100 times if you agree to being waterboarded 100 times. Then we can compare notes about what is and isn’t torture.
starfleet_dude on April 23, 2009 at 3:56 PM
I don’t believe people who say it doesn’t matter whether it is/was effective. Would they standard before the surviving families of a terrorist attack on US soil that could have been prevented had ‘enhanced interrogation’ methods been used and tell them to their faces that their loved ones died in the name of the great American ideal ‘we do not torture’? I frankly think that their black and white view of the world and of morality is cowardly. So simple in theory, but in reality not so much.
ProfessorMiao on April 23, 2009 at 3:57 PM
Methinks someone is making a play on names…heh
bikermailman on April 23, 2009 at 3:57 PM
It all comes down to this:
If you would willingly have the action performed on you, it ain’t torture.
lorien1973 on April 23, 2009 at 3:57 PM
LOL. We are uncovering a government sponsored system of torture (which we tried, convicted, and executed our enemies for doing against us) but it’s political.
ckoeber on April 23, 2009 at 3:57 PM
Let me get this straight Shep….
Shooting three African teenagers in the head to save one American captain is a good thing, but waterboarding one known terrorist to save thousands of Americans is bad.
Um…are you sure your sanity chip is fully screwed in?
29Victor on April 23, 2009 at 3:57 PM
Yup.
ProfessorMiao on April 23, 2009 at 3:57 PM
Torture is reading three specific panty waistes posters on this site.
PappaMac on April 23, 2009 at 3:58 PM
If I have to weight the comfort of a stinking terrorist that can give valuable information against the lives of innocents, the lives of innocent American lives, I’ll choose the innocent American lives.
Getalife and his friends would choose the comfort of the murdering thugs over their fellow Americans.
Very telling.
ManInBlack on April 23, 2009 at 3:58 PM
Sounds like sleep deprivation to me. Torture.
MadisonConservative on April 23, 2009 at 3:58 PM
Shep little boy, screw your head back down tight in the reality position. You’re pounding on the table, and leftist rant only proves your shiite is out of control.
Clearly, “water-boarding” IS NOT torture per se. It comes no where near to what’s being practiced elsewhere in the world. Best you do some homework on Middle Eastern, and Asian techniques on the issue before you fly off again. BTW Shep, what is your argument, and position on al Qaeda’s be headings. Oops, I forgot, it only hurts once, and that’s only a one time painful headache…right!
byteshredder on April 23, 2009 at 3:58 PM
If a terrorist leaves a room with all his body parts still attached and all those parts still work —- He wasn’t tortured.
If a terrorist is 20 lbs heavier than he was when captured– He wasn’t tortured.
If a terrorist had to wrap himself in a blankie because the air conditioner is set to high– He wasn’t tortured.
If a terrorist is afraid of bugs, he is a pussy and feel free to torture him with caterpillars!
Bicyea on April 23, 2009 at 3:58 PM
Don’t worry, shep, we don’t need to because our enemies will do it to us.
TTheoLogan on April 23, 2009 at 3:58 PM
BadgerHawk, trying to draw a fuzzy wide line about what is and isn’t torture is just an excuse for it.
starfleet_dude on April 23, 2009 at 3:58 PM
And we’ll have to get rid of women too.
29Victor on April 23, 2009 at 3:59 PM
And the question in the field will quickly become whether that’s a legal order and whether they can rely on Obama to take the inevitable heat. And it seems obvious that last question is a no. So it’ll be extraordinary rendition or Obama can try to prosecute someone for failing to do what he’s said is illegal. Yeah, no way. Off to Riyadh it is.
Beagle on April 23, 2009 at 3:59 PM
No, it isn’t. Torture is the threat of permanent physical damage, as presaged by extreme pain. Literally, “twisting” until something breaks. I am fine with putting some one through (or going through, myself) extreme psychological stress, so long as no permanent damage is done. Granted, a normal criminal prisoner should not be subject to such, but we are talking about people who have given up such rights by there actions (and yes, we should only be considering this on people we already have dead to rights).
Count to 10 on April 23, 2009 at 3:59 PM
FoxNews sent Shep on a week or two hiatus when he did the “blow-j**” slip with a Jennifer Lopez. Seems to me this is a fire-able offense. I won’t being missed being called a “moron” by him for not jumping on the global warming bandwagon.
Marcus on April 23, 2009 at 3:59 PM
Shep really needs a little time off so he can tell which family member and friends that he is willing to sacrifice because he could keep them from harms way, but that was a waterboarding away.
belad on April 23, 2009 at 3:59 PM
Bush claimed the LA plot was broken up in 2002. KSM was captured in 3/03. Hmmmm…
Grow Fins on April 23, 2009 at 4:00 PM
You don’t know when to give it up. We already hashed out that waterboarding constitutes mental torture. It clearly does, it’d be insane to argue otherwise. Every interrogation, from CIA to FBI to NYPD is mental torture to varying degrees.
But you failed to make an even mildly convincing argument that waterboarding (the approved technique) qualifies as physical torture. You flat got your ass handed to you in a debate. You know it. We know it. Stop peddling the same weak argument that pitifully failed yesteday.
BadgerHawk on April 23, 2009 at 4:00 PM
Yep. Being single is torture by that definition.
lorien1973 on April 23, 2009 at 4:00 PM
Ckoeber – I too never believe that the ends justify the means – not ever.
However, it is about intent. It is about making something not just a choice of the person doing the interrogation – that is why the American military has Command Authority. We are not a bunch of lawless, murdering thugs.
Waterboarding was not designed to get under the radar – it was designed to get the job done with as little moral outrage as possible. American interrogators do not want to torture. That is the main difference. I realize the slippery slope as you say is possible, but if you will honestly look at the history of “torture” in the United States – the slope has gone up, not down.
kybowexar on April 23, 2009 at 4:00 PM
Wow, that will be a bunch of lonely men… and not to mention men who are lonely only have one thing they can look at.
upinak on April 23, 2009 at 4:00 PM
he’s a lib, of course not.
Obama can increase Torture by increasing Renditions(which he has done)…they don’t care.
Obama can advocate ripping babies apart during Live Birth Abortion…they love it.
Obama drops bombs in Pakistan wiping out villages….big deal.
Obama accuses Bush admin. of “torture”…and he is the Messiah and all that is right in the world.
/Liberal ilLogic
jp on April 23, 2009 at 4:00 PM
That’s simplistic. We may have a flawed judicial system but we try people in a court of law with evidence of the crime they commit in the cases of Prisons.
In this case, we never tried the people we interrogated with any crimes before we punished them. We just did it for expedience sake.
ckoeber on April 23, 2009 at 4:01 PM
but the question is.. no women, would you still hit it?
That could be torture. ;P
upinak on April 23, 2009 at 4:01 PM
Shep is an idiot…
Wade on April 23, 2009 at 4:01 PM
Like I said. Sniveling.
Grow Fins on April 23, 2009 at 3:43 PM
Ummm…actually, if you click that link and READ the article, you’ll see that the article author refutes the claim made by the guy in the clip. The US didn’t put the Japanese man to death; he was given 15 years in prison. He was also imprisoned not only for waterboarding (in a much more severe version than what American interrogators used), but also for actually physically harming and maiming his prisoners. There is absolutely no comparison there. I’m sorry, but please come up with a better example. Thank you.
Highlar on April 23, 2009 at 4:01 PM
Interesting. None of the “anti-torture” crowd will tell us what they would have done to save LA.
Elric66 on April 23, 2009 at 4:01 PM
snort
funky chicken on April 23, 2009 at 4:02 PM
That’s weird. You trotted that dodge out yesterday – word for word. Try something new.
BadgerHawk on April 23, 2009 at 4:02 PM
Ahhhh, no it does not. I agree with Shep — America does not torture. If you think waterboarding is torture, then we have been torturing our own troops for years.
littleguy on April 23, 2009 at 4:02 PM
You and the MSM are shameless LIARS.
Abu Zubadah was waterboarded in July 2002, one of the leaders of that cell was captured around Sept 2002 from this interrogation. Later KSM was Captured from same info gathered from Zubadah.
KSM caught in March 1st, 2003
the operatives in this cell were busted in Spring of 2003!!!!!
later in August of 2003, Hamboli was busted, the last leader of the cell.
All thanks to KSM and Zubadah being waterboarded and interrogated.
jp on April 23, 2009 at 4:02 PM
What about microwave radiation that feels like burning your flesh? It doesn’t leave a mark either, but it’s searing pain nevertheless and is also torture. What makes waterboarding so tempting is that it can be rationalized as not really being torture, when the fact is that the feeling of drowning is horrific.
starfleet_dude on April 23, 2009 at 4:03 PM
Torture! It’s like a totem word for these people. A magical rubicon which may never be crossed for any reason EVER. Brain-dead absolutism is the hallmark of adolescent thinking.
It’s doubly hilarious coming from the scions of moral relativism and “gray areas.” I’d like to congratulate our progressive trolls for finally acknowledging the existance of absolute evil. Please let us know when you miraculously find something else that can’t possibly justified under any circumstances.
Or is morality dictated by political affiliation? Would it be ok for you if Che did it? Che was such a nice, good hearted man. He was a doctor you know.
TheUnrepentantGeek on April 23, 2009 at 4:03 PM
You are missing the point – and I think on purpose no doubt. You and I are not the question here. The person who holds key information that would save innocent lives. The person who holds that information is not innocent. Actually, he is a willing participant in an activity endangering innocent lives; therefore, he has a choice. Tell the information and make a change, or be assisted in seeing the reality of the situation. His life is not worth the life of those others. Sorry, but that is so.
kybowexar on April 23, 2009 at 4:03 PM
Actually it all comes down to this:
If it saves even one innocents life I don’t give a sh!t what you want to call it just do it, or call me and I’ll do it and discuss it with my True Judge when that time comes. Either way I don’t care how the beta-Americans view it.
thomasaur on April 23, 2009 at 4:03 PM
Once again: Which city, which many thousands of people are you guys willing to sacrifice for you satisfying your ‘morals’? Your family? Friends?
bikermailman on April 23, 2009 at 4:04 PM
This was the original quote folks…tell me there isn’t one man here who hasn’t had a woman feel this way?
29Victor on April 23, 2009 at 4:04 PM
That’s one of the questions starfleet_dude couldn’t answer. The other was if it can be done over 100 times with no lasting effects how can it be torture.
I’m reposting the link to starfleet’s beatdown for anyone who’s interested.
BadgerHawk on April 23, 2009 at 4:04 PM
Hey, Shep, I hear CNN is looking for a few good “men.”
RandyChandler on April 23, 2009 at 4:04 PM
Your logic WOULD hold true with the exception that the testimony elicited may or may not be accurate.
On top of that, your logic has no limits. Should we kill the baby of a “terrorist” to elicit information?
How about bomb a small city to save a large city?
With your thought process there is nothing stopping you. The end justify the means.
ckoeber on April 23, 2009 at 4:04 PM
When it comes to my family’s safety and survival, I’m pretty willing to go most anywhere. That’s what this is really all about. Remember, we didn’t start this ruckus. One can intellectualize anything to death if one tries hard enough.
a capella on April 23, 2009 at 4:05 PM
I’ve done no such thing. I do admit that people like you should have been drowned at birth rather than allowed to pollute our body politic. Yeah, I said it. I’m f***ing-well sick of putting up with crap from hypocrites like you. If you live on the North American continent, you live on land “stolen” from the aborigines. Your VERY wealthy lifestyle (I don’t give a rat’s ass how ‘poor’ you claim to be–compared to 99% of the human population throughout history or currently living, you are wealthy beyond imagination) is a direct result of hard men–and BETTER men than you–making hard decisions for the betterment of THEIR people (what, you don’t think Geronimo and Sitting Bull didn’t do everything in their power for the betterment of THEIR people?!) and winning fights FOR YOU, though you as yet were unborn. You spoiled, whiny, hypocritical little beeyotch–every living breath you take on this continent is a direct result of “inhumane” tactics which today would draw international condemnation, even though international power politics still work the same way. You want to retain moral “integrity”? Do us all a favor, go hang yourself. Let the rest of your countrymen get on with the business of winning the war for OUR SIDE, and not quite bothering ourselves so much with the people who want to butcher us wholesale because our women wear shorts.
quikstrike98 on April 23, 2009 at 4:05 PM
Beneath all those Apple Pies, Rockwell Paintings, Hallmark cards & back lot baseball fields is a country built on patriots that would do whatever it took to win their independence from tyranny and keep their freedom. We are not at war with a country,or uniform wearing soldiers. We are fighting an ideology that DEMANDS tactics that will get results. Failing to do so won’t get a small handful of people killed, but possibly millions.
We cannot afford fight these terrorist with dated techniques & rules that were made when the enemy had honor & virtue.
So climb into your Rockwell painting and see if the terrorists won’t find you there. Idiot.
portlandon on April 23, 2009 at 4:05 PM
Watching Shep Smith on tv is torture, so, yeah, I guess we do torture.
t.ferg on April 23, 2009 at 4:05 PM
BadgerHawk, under your fuzzy logic, anything that’s unpleasant amounts to torture. That’s obviously not the case.
starfleet_dude on April 23, 2009 at 4:05 PM
I don’t have to agree to allow my self to be waterboarded to prove it isn’t torture. Why? because I am not a murdering terrorist scumbag.
If I were, I would understand that there might be negative consequences if I am captured. In that case, I would have weighed out the potential for a negative consequence and determined that it was more important to me, to kill innocent Americans then save myself from a potential.
If you don’t want to get waterboarded, don’t be a terrorist. Why is this so difficult to grasp?
John D on April 23, 2009 at 4:05 PM
Pound sand you little pizzant, Shep.You would sacrifice a city for the right of a terrorist not to get water poured on their heads.. “Thats not who we ARE!” you scream. Maybe you would be happier if you could say–”That’s not who we WERE.”
Shep, go to CNN, thats where you need to be.
lizzee on April 23, 2009 at 4:05 PM
The Constitution was not written with a torture clause. What the Constitution DOES stipulate is that the government MUST DO EVERYTHING to secure our nation and protect our citizens.
Y’all heard the call into this morning’s Rush show, speaking with Mark Steyn, from a former military intel officer who related that all American military intel personnel go through the enhanced interrogation procedures as a matter of standard training. Americans undergo these intense measures in order to prepare themselves to endure under real torture (loss of body parts, subjection to poison).
The idea that torture is being forced to feel uncomfortable is STUPID. Wimps who don’t want to face the piper should stay clear of any participation in warfare. But those wimps want to run the show. There is a wimpy EOE entitlement mentality (everybody should be found qualified to do any job they want regardless of skills, talents or will power). These wimps want to coerce the military into conforming into the “feel good” comfort mode of operation. If an order doesn’t feel right, no need to comply to a command.
Shep represents the generation of Americans who never got spanked and whose parents spoiled him rotten, over protected. Now listen to him pound the table and swear with vulgarity in self-righteous indignation that everyone does not simply cower to him. He’s the abuser.
Obama’s presidency would deny American citizens our Constitutional Rights while simultaneously demanding that every NON-citizen crook, pirate, terrorist and enemy of the state be granted our Constitutional protections. With one breath, the Constitution is negated in favor of International Law by RBGinsberg. Socialists will only enforce what rules they deem fit at whatever time they deem fit for whom they deem fit: authoritarians.
The Constitution MUST stand. It is what all employees of the government, elected officials and military are SWORN to uphold. And the Constitution NEVER was written nor interpreted to apply to NON-citizens until the Socialists ran the show, with Obama leading their parade to “tear down every wall” as promised in his Berlin campaign speech.
maverick muse on April 23, 2009 at 4:05 PM
ckoeber:
You’re right. It is torture and we are meanies. It must be torture if you say so. I have never tortured anyone but I did kill a few when I was in the army. I think we should never take any prisoners because they may know something and we would be torturing ourselves by not trying to find out what they know.
Vince on April 23, 2009 at 4:06 PM
Grow Fins,
http://articles.latimes.com/p/2005/oct/08/nation/na-terror8
KSM was captured on March 1st, 2003, this cell was busted in Spring 2003
from article:
2 seperate plots, it took both capturing Zubadah and KSM, both waterboarded to arrest the entire cell.
this is also the Cell that sucessfully pulled off the Bali bombings in 2002
jp on April 23, 2009 at 4:06 PM
Geez Shep….try less sugar, will you?
Define torture for me, and then we’ll talk.
Here, I’ll go you one better.
Why don’t we ask John McCain if his “hosts” in Vietnam ever abided by rules that would not allow them to kill him while they were abusing him? Why don’t we ask him that? They took him to the brink and left him to die.
KSM and the others who were waterboarded and “bugged” were never brought to that point.
Anyone saying any different, including that weakass punk Shep Smith at Fox News, is full of bullshit.
Want torture?
Google “Bataan Death March”.
Talismen on April 23, 2009 at 4:06 PM
awe man, you really want me to answer that?
upinak on April 23, 2009 at 4:06 PM
Oops.
BadgerHawk on April 23, 2009 at 4:06 PM
There’s no doubt people in this country have completely forgotten about 9/11.
None at all.
TTheoLogan on April 23, 2009 at 4:07 PM
Should read “with the rights of people who want to butcher us wholesale because our women wear shorts.”
quikstrike98 on April 23, 2009 at 4:07 PM
With the tiny exception that we have a volunteer-based armed forces.
The detainees, whether innocent or guilty, did not even have a remote choice of objecting.
ckoeber on April 23, 2009 at 4:08 PM
LOL. We are uncovering a government sponsored system of torture (which we tried, convicted, and executed our enemies for doing against us) but it’s political.
ckoeber on April 23, 2009 at 3:57 PM
It is completely political. Govt. sponsored system of torture? Don’t burn your lips on that crack pipe genius. We water-boarded 3 terrorist douchebags by order of the President of the United States. All was approved by Congress in the aftermath of 9/11. This isn’t some rogue CIA group running around water-boarding every Akmed, Muhammed, and Masjid they find. It was a very specific tool used for a ver specific purpose. Saving the city of Los Angeles from a NYC style attack. Hyperbole much?
JAM on April 23, 2009 at 4:08 PM
Listen, even if we had been giving them purple-nurples we’d still have all this re-manufactured outrage…I believe this will cause a sever rift in the Dem party v the WH so bring it on…get the very best our tax money can buy to try and prosecute…and while the political divide grows in this country, let our enemies laugh and become emboldened…
RepubChica on April 23, 2009 at 4:08 PM
“Strict observance of the written law is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to the written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the ends to the means.”
-Thomas Jefferson
jp on April 23, 2009 at 4:08 PM
BadgerHawk, the reason some like Hitchens volunteered to be waterboarded was to understand first-hand what it felt like. In Hitchens case, he forthrightly called it what it is – torture. You seem intent on avoiding what torture is so you can rationalize what was done in our country’s name, or rather, in Bush’s name.
starfleet_dude on April 23, 2009 at 4:08 PM
… at least in his mind
gatorboy on April 23, 2009 at 4:09 PM
So? We saved LA from being hit. Does that make you happy or sad?
Elric66 on April 23, 2009 at 4:09 PM
You took that to an unmerited, absurd extreme and you know it.
TheUnrepentantGeek on April 23, 2009 at 4:09 PM
Except you defenition of physical torture is much broade than mine. You’re having a tough time with this one, aren’t you? Your opinion is that waterboarding constitutes physical torture. That’s fine. It’s not a black or white issue. But stop retreading your same losing argument. You know it’s a weaker argument, your feelings just don’t want to let you admit it.
BadgerHawk on April 23, 2009 at 4:09 PM
I think Shep violated his multi-million $$$ FOX contract and at the same time auditioned for a prime spot on MSNBC.
Time will tell.
Bicyea on April 23, 2009 at 4:09 PM
The detainees, whether innocent or guilty, did not even have a remote choice of objecting.
ckoeber on April 23, 2009 at 4:08 PM
Why are they even in a position to object? Did they not have a choice to live a peaceful life? Or did we also force them to become murdering scum, just to get the chance to waterboard them?
John D on April 23, 2009 at 4:10 PM
If, when it is all over, the subject is no worse for wear, I have no problem with it, any more than I have a problem with executing them. Less, even. Whether you want to call it torture is ultimately besides the point.
Count to 10 on April 23, 2009 at 4:10 PM
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