Rice approved waterboarding

For those who support torture.

Sharia law is for you.

getalife on April 23, 2009 at 12:19 PM

Here are some of the democrats that approved of these methods:

What Congress Knew About ‘Torture’

Beginning in 2002, Nancy Pelosi and other key Democrats (as well as Republicans) on the House and Senate Intelligence Committees were thoroughly, and repeatedly, briefed on the CIA’s covert antiterror interrogation programs. They did nothing to stop such activities, when they weren’t fully sanctioning them. If they now decide the tactics they heard about then amount to abuse, then by their own logic they themselves are complicit. Let’s review the history the political class would prefer to forget.

Along with:
(D) Sen. John D. Rockefeller
(D) Bob Graham
(D) Jane Harmen
(D) Nancey Pelosi

In the spirit of honest discloser,democrats should release all transcripts of these meetings where elected members supported 100% these interrogation procedures.

Hill Briefed on Waterboarding in 2002
In Meetings, Spy Panels’ Chiefs Did Not Protest, Officials Say
By Joby Warrick and Dan Eggen
Washington Post Staff Writers
Sunday, December 9, 2007; A01
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/08/AR2007120801664_pf.html

In September 2002, four members of Congress met in secret for a first look at a unique CIA program designed to wring vital information from reticent terrorism suspects in U.S. custody. For more than an hour, the bipartisan group, which included current House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.), was given a virtual tour of the CIA’s overseas detention sites and the harsh techniques interrogators had devised to try to make their prisoners talk.

democrats and intelligence officials support these methods:

The Obama administration’s top intelligence official privately told employees last week that “high value information” was obtained in interrogations that included harsh techniques approved by former President George W. Bush.

“A deeper understanding of the al-Qaida network” resulted, National Intelligence Director Dennis Blair said in the memo, in which he added, “I like to think I would not have approved those methods in the past.” The Associated Press obtained a copy.

Hayden: Chain of Interrogations Yielded Bulk of Intelligence Knowledge

The former head of the CIA told FOX News last year that five years after the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks, 60 percent of the knowledge of the U.S. intelligence community about Al Qaeda came from enhanced interrogation techniques.

The Central Intelligence Agency told CNSNews.com today that it stands by the assertion made in a May 30, 2005 Justice Department memo that the use of “enhanced techniques” of interrogation on al Qaeda leader Khalid Sheik Mohammed (KSM) — including the use of waterboarding — caused KSM to reveal information that allowed the U.S. government to thwart a planned attack on Los Angeles.

Audio: Clinton endorses “torture” in special cases;
posted at 12:30 am on October 19, 2006 by Allahpundit
http://hotair.com/archives/2006/10/19/audio-clinton-endorses-torture-in-special-cases/

Bill Clinton’s party screamed loud and long about how the [detainee] bill enabled torture and departed from the Geneva Conventions. Russ Feingold described this legislation as “a stain” on our history, one we would regret, and soon. Yet none of these Democrats had anything to say when their last occupant of the White House not only endorsed torture but also a protocol for covering one’s butt after the fact

.

The best part is at the very end, where Billy Jeff chuckles at the notion that anyone would oppose torture in a true ticking bomb situation.

Here are procedures approved by Bill Clinton:

Officials call operation one of the agency’s great successes

By Andrew Higgins and Christopher Cooper
THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
http://www.mail-archive.com/ctrl@listserv.aol.com/msg80840.html

Interrogation of terrorist suspect Shawki Salama Attiya

Several days later, he was taken, handcuffed and blindfolded, to the
abandoned air base, north of Tirana. “There, a private plane was waiting
for me,” he said in his confession. Once in Cairo, he was blindfolded again
and driven to Egypt’s state security offices on July 2, 1998.

“Since then,
the interrogations have not stopped,” he said.
Attiya later told his lawyer, Hafez Abu-Saada, that while being questioned,
he was subjected to electrical shocks to his genitals, suspended by his
limbs, dragged on his face, and made to stand for hours in a cell, with
filthy water up to his knees. Abu-Saada, who represented all five members
of the Tirana cell, subsequently recorded their complaints in a published
report.

Justice Dept.

Consider the Justice Department memo of May 30, 2005. It notes that “the CIA believes ‘the intelligence acquired from these interrogations has been a key reason why al Qaeda has failed to launch a spectacular attack in the West since 11 September 2001.’ . . . In particular, the CIA believes that it would have been unable to obtain critical information from numerous detainees, including [Khalid Sheik Mohammed] and Abu Zubaydah, without these enhanced techniques.” The memo continues: “Before the CIA used enhanced techniques

. . .

KSM resisted giving any answers to questions about future attacks, simply noting, ‘Soon you will find out.’ ” Once the techniques were applied, “interrogations have led to specific, actionable intelligence, as well as a general increase in the amount of intelligence regarding al Qaeda and its affiliates.”

Hillary Clinton leaves open the use for these measures

On an earlier occasion, she had held that there were “very rare” instances in which severe interrogation methods might be necessary and that the United States needs “lawful authority” to engage in them in cases involving an “imminent threat to millions of Americans.”

Obama leaves open the use for these measures

Barack Obama responded by declaring that we cannot “have the president of the United States state as a matter of policy that there is a loophole or an exception where we would sanction torture.” He then shifted, in the very same breath, to state that “there are going to be all sorts of hypotheticals, an emergency situation, and I will make that judgment at that time.” In other words, he wants to preserve the very same loophole for which he lambastes President Bush.

Panetta: Rendition Will Continue, Would Ask Obama to Authorize Harsher Interrogation Methods “If Necessary”

Panetta also says that rendition will continue under the Obama administration

Panetta said he would if necessary ask Obama to allow harsher interrogations than those covered by the Army Field Manual, which the president last month set as the government standard. The manual bans techniques such as waterboarding.

“I would not hesitate,” to seek broader interrogation authority, Panetta said, adding “I think that this president would do nothing that would violate the laws that are in place.”

Look in the mirror liberal,you are a supporter of torture.

Baxter Greene on April 23, 2009 at 1:11 PM

If you read the International Red Cross report, the techniques, in my opinion, went way overboard (no pun intended).

SteveMG on April 23, 2009 at 12:56 PM

I believe that the Red Cross report is taken from the words of the terrorist suspects.

It has been shown that the jihadist know to make allegations for propaganda reasons.

Does this mean harsh methods were not used.
Absolutely not.
We are at war.
But for credibility reasons, I would like to have more evidence than a terrorist side.

Many attacks have been thwarted and thousands of lives saved using these methods.

The fact that we are discussing this without being attacked
for many years attest to the success of practices we are exposing and dismantling for political purposes.

democrats need to stand for the truth and back up their transparency and accountability rhetoric
by releasing “all” the memos and transcripts of intelligence meetings where they supported these measures 100%.

Baxter Greene on April 23, 2009 at 1:23 PM

A well intended desire to save lives using limited techniques became “codified” and used carelessly.

If one reads war, it happens all the time.

SteveMG on April 23, 2009 at 1:36 PM

I see your point but have to say that it is a lot easier to make these assessments from a point of safety and reflection.

Our intelligence,military,and political leadership did not have such advantages.

They were confronted with threats that had escalated to extreme proportions and we had little intelligence and know
how in stopping it.

The success of using many practices like wiretapping,bank tracking,enhanced interrogation,and many other methods have made not just this country,but the world safer:

B.C. researchers find decline in global terrorism, question previous data
1 day ago
http://canadianpress.google.com/article/ALeqM5iJciaxCBODpiOZKXuLS73Q0gpaBA

VANCOUVER — A group of researchers from Simon Fraser University says global terrorism is on the decline, despite previous data and public perceptions that suggest otherwise.
The university’s Human Security Report Project says fatalities from terrorist attacks around the world have, in fact, decreased by 40 per cent since 2001.

Are We Safer?
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives2/2008/05/020600.php

On the stump, Barack Obama usually concludes his comments on Iraq by saying, “and it hasn’t made us safer.” It is an article of faith on the left that nothing the Bush administration has done has enhanced our security, and, on the contrary, its various alleged blunders have only contributed to the number of jihadists who want to attack us.

Empirically, however, it seems beyond dispute that something has made us safer since 2001. Over the course of the Bush administration, successful attacks on the United States and its interests overseas have dwindled to virtually nothing.

Some perspective here is required. While most Americans may not have been paying attention, a considerable number of terrorist attacks on America and American interests abroad were launched from the 1980s forward, too many of which were successful. What follows is a partial history:

1988
February: Marine Corps Lt. Colonel Higgens, Chief of the U.N. Truce Force, was kidnapped and murdered by Hezbollah.
December: Pan Am flight 103 from London to New York was blown up over Scotland, killing 270 people, including 35 from Syracuse University and a number of American military personnel.
1991
November: American University in Beirut bombed.
1993
January: A Pakistani terrorist opened fire outside CIA headquarters, killing two agents and wounding three.
February: World Trade Center bombed, killing six and injuring more than 1,000.
1995
January: Operation Bojinka, Osama bin Laden’s plan to blow up 12 airliners over the Pacific Ocean, discovered.
November: Five Americans killed in attack on a U.S. Army office in Saudi Arabia.
1996
June: Truck bomb at Khobar Towers kills 19 American servicemen and injures 240.
June: Terrorist opens fire at top of Empire State Building, killing one.
1997
February: Palestinian opens fire at top of Empire State Building, killing one and wounding more than a dozen.
November: Terrorists murder four American oil company employees in Pakistan.
1998
January: U.S. Embassy in Peru bombed.
August: Simultaneous bomb attacks on U.S. Embassies in Kenya and Tanzania killed more than 300 people and injured over 5,000.
1999
October: Egypt Air flight 990 crashed off the coast of Massachusetts, killing 100 Americans among the more than 200 on board; the pilot yelled “Allahu Akbar!” as he steered the airplane into the ocean.
2000
October: A suicide boat exploded next to the U.S.S. Cole, killing 17 American sailors and injuring 39.
2001
September: Terrorists with four hijacked airplanes kill around 3,000 Americans in New York, Washington and Pennsylvania.
December: Richard Reid, the “shoe bomber,” tries to blow up a transatlantic flight, but is stopped by passengers.
The September 11 attack was a propaganda triumph for al Qaeda, celebrated by a dismaying number of Muslims around the world. Everyone expected that it would draw more Muslims to bin Laden’s cause and that more such attacks would follow. In fact, though, what happened was quite different: the pace of successful jihadist attacks against the United States slowed, decelerated further after the onset of the Iraq war, and has now dwindled to essentially zero. Here is the record:
2002
October: Diplomat Laurence Foley murdered in Jordan, in an operation planned, directed and financed by Zarqawi in Iraq, perhaps with the complicity of Saddam’s government.
2003
May: Suicide bombers killed 10 Americans, and killed and wounded many others, at housing compounds for westerners in Saudi Arabia.
October: More bombings of United States housing compounds in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia killed 26 and injured 160.
2004
There were no successful attacks inside the United States or against American interests abroad.
2005
There were no successful attacks inside the United States or against American interests abroad.
2006
There were no successful attacks inside the United States or against American interests abroad.
2007
There were no successful attacks inside the United States or against American interests abroad.
2008
So far, there have been no successful attacks inside the United States or against American interests abroad.

If Obama is serious about full disclosure and transparency,he will release “ALL” of the CIA documents that will surely add to this list of thwarted attacks:

Foiled Terror Plots Against America Since 9/11
Thursday , September 11, 2008
http://www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_story/0,3566,335500,00.html
By Joseph Abrams and Jonathan Passantino

The following is a list of known terror plots thwarted by the U.S. government since Sept. 11, 2001.
• December 2001, Richard Reid: British citizen attempted to ignite shoe bomb on flight from Paris to Miami.
• May 2002, Jose Padilla: American citizen accused of seeking radioactive-laced “dirty bomb” to use in an attack against Amrica. Padilla was convicted of conspiracy in August, 2007.
• September 2002, Lackawanna Six: American citizens of Yemeni origin convicted of supporting Al Qaeda after attending jihadist camp in Pakistan. Five of six were from Lackawanna, N.Y.
• Click to view photos of suspected terrorists and attack sites.
• May 2003, Iyman Faris: American citizen charged with plotting to use blowtorches to collapse the Brooklyn Bridge.
• June 2003, Virginia Jihad Network: Eleven men from Alexandria, Va., trained for jihad against American soldiers, convicted of violating the Neutrality Act, conspiracy.
• August 2004, Dhiren Barot: Indian-born leader of terror cell plotted bombings on financial centers (see additional images).
• August 2004, James Elshafay and Shahawar Matin Siraj: Sought to plant bomb at New York’s Penn Station during the Republican National Convention.
• August 2004, Yassin Aref and Mohammed Hossain: Plotted to assassinate a Pakistani diplomat on American soil.
• June 2005, Father and son Umer Hayat and Hamid Hayat: Son convicted of attending terrorist training camp in Pakistan; father convicted of customs violation.
• August 2005, Kevin James, Levar Haley Washington, Gregory Vernon Patterson and Hammad Riaz Samana: Los Angeles homegrown terrorists who plotted to attack National Guard, LAX, two synagogues and Israeli consulate.
• December 2005, Michael Reynolds: Plotted to blow up natural gas refinery in Wyoming, the Transcontinental Pipeline, and a refinery in New Jersey. Reynolds was sentenced to 30 years in prison.
• February 2006, Mohammad Zaki Amawi, Marwan Othman El-Hindi and Zand Wassim Mazloum: Accused of providing material support to terrorists, making bombs for use in Iraq.
• April 2006, Syed Haris Ahmed and Ehsanul Islam Sadequee: Cased and videotaped the Capitol and World Bank for a terrorist organization.
• June 2006, Narseal Batiste, Patrick Abraham, Stanley Grant Phanor, Naudimar Herrera, Burson Augustin, Lyglenson Lemorin, and Rotschild Augstine: Accused of plotting to blow up the Sears Tower.
• July 2006, Assem Hammoud: Accused of plotting to bomb New York City train tunnels.
• August 2006, Liquid Explosives Plot: Thwarted plot to explode ten airliners over the United States.
• March 2007, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed: Mastermind of Sept. 11 and author of numerous plots confessed in court in March 2007 to planning to destroy skyscrapers in New York, Los Angeles and Chicago. Mohammedalso plotted to assassinate Pope John Paul II and former President Bill Clinton.
• May 2007, Fort Dix Plot: Six men accused of plotting to attack Fort Dix Army base in New Jersey. The plan included attacking and killing soldiers using assault rifles and grenades.
• June 2007, JFK Plot: Four men are accused of plotting to blow up fuel arteries that run through residential neighborhoods at JFK Airport in New York.
• September 2007, German authorities disrupt a terrorist cell that was planning attacks on military installations and facilities used by Americans in Germany. The Germans arrested three suspected members of the Islamic Jihad Union, a group that has links to Al Qaeda and supports Al Qaeda’s global jihadist agenda.

And of course the death of the most lethal al-qaeda terrorist,responsible for tens of thousands of deaths:
MUSAB AL-ZARQAWI.

Baxter Greene on April 23, 2009 at 1:55 PM

I’m just arguing against the proposition that these evil people had no rights. Because the law says otherwise.

American laws; not Geneva Conventions.

SteveMG on April 23, 2009 at 1:51 PM

When you commit crimes,especially crimes against humanity,you sacrifice many of your rights.

If you get busted and taken down town,the police will tell you quickly that your rights of many Freedoms and choices are being taken away while you are being locked up.

You lost those rights when you broke the law.

I do not mean to imply that we should not abide by humanitarian laws in dealing with terrorist(I believe the supreme court has ruled on abiding by certain laws if I am not mistaken),I am simply saying that we should not cut our own throats by dismantling practices that have shown to be successful in stopping terrorism.

liberals have gone overboard in moving the goalposts concerning what constitutes torture:

Here is the new definition of torture from one of the leading voices of the democratic party Andrew Sullivan(according to Newsweek)
(via justoneminute)
Not A Lawyer (Or Even A Clear Thinker)
Although it seems awfully late in the debate, the Daily Dish defines torture:

It is to subject captives to such levels of physical or mental pain or suffering that they “have reached the limit of their ability to withhold [information] in the face of psychological and physical hardship.” This is, in fact, as close to a definition of torture as you are likely to find.

Ahh, so if the captive starts talking it’s torture. Helpful. My legal advice to his captors would be to clear the room if the captive clears his throat or otherwise appears to be about to speak.

This is insane and will get a lot of people killed.
Just the fact a terrorist is having to talk is now considered torture by the democratic party.

We have to worry about their souls now too.

Zubaydah understood that torture is the imposition of sufficient physical or psychological pain or suffering to cause even religious fanatics, who believe their very souls are at stake, to have no choice but to submit.

Huh? “His soul is at stake?” The Zubaydah passage makes clear that a believer does not risk his soul by the act of cooperating with his captors; he risks his soul by cooperating without first resisting as best he can. Zubayadah is clearly not expressing any sort of “Death before dishonor” credo here.

The jihadist will have a field day if we have to adhere to this type of insane liberal pretzel logic.

But as usual,democrats have no problem instituting the same policies they condemn Republicans for:

Hope and Change Administration: Detainees have “no constitutional rights”
posted at 9:45 am on February 21, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
http://hotair.com/archives/2009/02/21/hope-and-change-administration-detainees-have-no-constitutional-rights/

Detainees being held at Bagram Air Base in Afghanistan cannot use US courts to challenge their detention, the US says.

The justice department ruled that some 600 so-called enemy combatants at Bagram have no constitutional rights.

No rights!!!!
All Bush had to do was move them from Cuba and he could have avoided all the moral whining from liberals that will practice the same policies but just in a different place.

Now thats change that only a liberal could believe in.

Obama nominees sound like Bush nominees:

Indefinite Detention-Lite: Et Tu, Elena Kagan?
By Spencer Ackerman 2/11/09 11:22 AM
http://washingtonindependent.com/29849/indefinite-detention-lite-et-tu-elena-kagan

Harvard Law Dean Elena Kagan, President Obama’s choice to represent his administration before the Supreme Court, told a key Republican senator Tuesday that she believed the government could hold suspected terrorists without trial as war prisoners.

I don’t think there’s any question that we are at war, and I think, to be honest, I think our nation didn’t realize that we were at war when in fact we were. When I look back at the 90s and Tanzania embassy bombings, the bombing of the Cole, I think we as a nation should have realized that at that point we were at war. We should not have waited until September 11th, 2001 to make that determination.

Good God she sounds like Bush.

How does the new head of the CIA feel about(according to liberals) outsourcing torture.

CIA Signals Continuity With Bush Era

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123560612118376885.html

CIA Director Leon Panetta, in his first meeting with reporters, said the agency will continue to carry out drone attacks on militants in Pakistan. He also said that while CIA interrogations will have new limits, President Barack Obama can still use his wartime powers to authorize harsher techniques if necessary.

Once again,if enhanced interrogation is so wrong,why does Obama leave the door open for it.

Mr. Panetta clarified his position on renditions, in which the CIA transports detainees to another country. “We are obviously going to seek assurances from that country that their human rights are protected and that they are not mistreated,” he said. That position is in line with the stated position of previous administrations, though some detainees who were rendered during the Bush administration say they were tortured.

Wow!!!
The other countries are going to “promise” not to torture.
What a major change.
Rendition is now okay!!!!

Day after day after day democrats are going to be exposed for how much they supported these policies while Bush was President and how they support them now.

Baxter Greene on April 23, 2009 at 2:16 PM

That’s just crazy talk. The next thing you’re going to tell me is that most Democrats actually voted to declare war on Iraq…=)

gwelf on April 23, 2009 at 2:18 PM

Remember,
Big ol’ dumb Bush tricked all of those super smart liberals into voting for taking out a dictator that they spent the 90′s telling us how dangerous he was with his WMD’s/Nuclear programs and ties to al-qaeda.

Baxter Greene on April 23, 2009 at 2:23 PM

Oh oh oh! I know how Boooosh did it – he got the CIA and MI5 to fake intelligence for him!

gwelf on April 23, 2009 at 2:32 PM

And the UN,French,…Germans,…..Egyptians,………Clinton administration,……….Pentagon

Here is a video of one of the secret meetings found by Keith Olberman when he was investigating the “Dick Cheney
Assassination ring”:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5P2jJdrz9bY

Baxter Greene on April 23, 2009 at 3:12 PM