Netanyahu to Obama: You take care of Iran, and then we’ll talk; Update: Ayalon denies, says WaPo wrong
posted at 10:11 am on April 23, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
Give Benjamin Netanyahu credit for learning from the experience of others. The new Israeli Prime Minister has watched Barack Obama get pushed around on the international stage for the past 100 days, and figures that he can redefine a relationship, too. Bibi will tell Obama that Israel will move no further on Palestinian peace talks until the US removes the threat from Iran:
The new Israeli government will not move ahead on the core issues of peace talks with the Palestinians until it sees progress in U.S. efforts to stop Iran’s suspected pursuit of a nuclear weapon and limit Tehran’s rising influence in the region, according to top government officials familiar with Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu’s developing policy on the issue.
“It’s a crucial condition if we want to move forward,” said Deputy Foreign Minister Daniel Ayalon, a member of the Israeli parliament and former ambassador to the United States. “If we want to have a real political process with the Palestinians, then you can’t have the Iranians undermining and sabotaging.”
The emerging Israeli position, a significant change from that of previous governments, presents a challenge for President Obama, who has made quick progress on Palestinian statehood a key foreign policy goal. Obama is also trying to begin engagement with Iran as part of a broad effort to slow its nuclear program and curtail its growing strength in the Middle East.
U.S. officials are wary of linking the two issues and, if anything, would like to do the reverse of what Israel has proposed, by using progress in the Israeli-Palestinian talks to curb Iranian influence, which is wielded in the region through anti-Israeli organizations such as Hezbollah and Hamas.
If that’s really the US position, then the Obama administration hasn’t got a clue. Beating a proxy army doesn’t “reverse” the influence of its sponsors. Israel has beaten Hamas and Hezbollah militarily in every clash of arms, but all that does is increase Iran’s influence. The only way to stop Iran from influencing the Palestinians — really, from funding a proxy terror war on Israel — is to make that so costly to the Iranians to make them stop.
Talking to the Palestinians and giving them their own state will not decrease Iran’s influence one whit. In fact, as Netanyahu knows, it will increase it immeasurably. Iranian influence, strategy, and cash will have gotten the Palestinians partway to their goal, and Iran’s influence would only increase as Hamas at least pushed towards its annihilationist Final Solution for Israel.
The path to peace with Iran will not include a two-state solution. They want total regional domination, and they want Israel destroyed — as Mahmoud Ahmadinejad keeps making clear, publicly, on the international stage. What does it take for people to acknowledge that Ahmadinejad is just as annihilationist as Hamas, and that Iran’s backing of Hamas has that particular goal in mind?
Previous Israeli governments usually deferred to the US in public, even if they pushed back in private on policy in their back yard. Netanyahu has apparently taken the measure of this President and decided that the traditional deference isn’t necessary, after watching him get humbled by the likes of Vladimir Putin, Kim Jong-Il, Hugo Chavez, Daniel Ortega, and others. If our opponents feel that bold, why not our friends?
Update: Yid with Lid says that the Israeli government is denying this report.
Blowback
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Who the hell are you kidding? Please!!! Egypt does every day and we give them billions in military aid. Maybe israel is taking a lesson from them? If I were Israel I would say the same thing. This is smart on Bibi’s part. If BO (it means both) does not support Israel, they loose the Jewish vote. Smart move Bibi!
sargentj on April 23, 2009 at 11:29 AM
And our president’s policy is to listen to other counties and apologize for our past meddling in their affairs.
Which is why he got virtually nothing from the EU on a global stimulus package, virtually nothing from NATO on Afghanistan, nothing from Russia on its Georgian oppression, nothing from North Korea, nothing from Iran, and anti-US lectures from tinpot tyrants in South America.
As Ed pointed out, there is no reason why Israel should act any differently from the rest of the world.
Karl on April 23, 2009 at 11:29 AM
I have to disagree. I think that this is exactly what Biden was talking about, because The Precedent is going to lash out at Israel and, eventually, try to place a naval blockade on Israel and perhaps invade it. He will have the full support of Europe in this and will be more than happy to try. The question is what the reaction of our military and the American public will be. But I am of the firm belief that Biden was talking about the idiot messiah’s plan to stab Israel in the back and try to destroy the country – as per the main advisers he’s put into place.
The game is on.
progressoverpeace on April 23, 2009 at 11:31 AM
Per my prior comment, the EU/NATO countries have subsidized their socialist nanny states on the backs of the US military since WWII, and it hasn’t stopped any of them from stiffing the US earlier and more often than Israel (which is admittedly also pretty socialist).
Karl on April 23, 2009 at 11:33 AM
Call it tough love.
Count to 10 on April 23, 2009 at 11:33 AM
Does this prove yet that Obama is not even close to being intelligent?
ORconservative on April 23, 2009 at 11:34 AM
Obama’s essentially cutting our own military. Why wouldn’t Israeli military aid be next?
It’s stupid, so it fits the pattern so far. Right?
cs89 on April 23, 2009 at 11:35 AM
The phrase “Hasn’t Got A Clue” should have been copyright protected before this administration took charge. The usage fees could have resulted in billions for the holder thereof.
Griz on April 23, 2009 at 11:36 AM
Those damned uppity Jews! Why can’t they just know their place!
They owe us! After all we done & now this is how they repay us?! The nerve!
They must submit to our will. To hell with trying to head off their own genocide.
Badger40 on April 23, 2009 at 11:37 AM
Fine, ill accept the fact that most if not all here feel that Israel is totally within their right to act however they please and to demand American support for those actions. However, what if it were Bush that Bibi was scolding. I mean, its not like Bush stopped Iran, and he had 8 years.
ernesto on April 23, 2009 at 11:40 AM
It is so good to see Bibi refuse to be cowtowed by Obama. Would that Republican congressmen stand up like that. Or the news media. Or bank executives. Or GM. Or Wall Street. God will take care of Israel in the long term. Those who doubt that only need to watch and learn.
Christian Conservative on April 23, 2009 at 11:40 AM
None of the Palestinian’s “brothers” want them to have their own State anyway. They never have. They allowed this to happen when Israel became a State and “the brothers” refused to give up any of their own land. They could set up a State any time they want if they just gave up a little of their own land.
So basically, they can all go “pound sand.”
Traffic Cop Timmy on April 23, 2009 at 11:45 AM
Good for Netanyahu, but it won’t make a difference.
Obama has no intent whatsoever of supporting Israel in any way. His “plan” is to oversee the dismantlement of Israel.
notagool on April 23, 2009 at 11:46 AM
I remain amazed at how the wimpy libs can hold onto the Jewish vote. It makes no sense.
ladyingray on April 23, 2009 at 10:22 AM
Nobody has been bigger suckers for the liberal’s propaganda campaign to de-legitimize conservatives than Jews. It all goes back to the fact that they were persecuted in the boondocks of Eastern Europe by blond haired, blue eyed, rurual, nationalistic, religious rednecks. When they came to this country, they were instinctively fearful of rural America. It’s understandable, but by now, they should have figured out that all the liberals who supposedly want to
protect the Jews from the “Jesus freaks” are just a bunch of Godless atheists who are opposed to the teachings of the Torah.
ardenenoch on April 23, 2009 at 11:46 AM
He turned that over to the Europeans, remember? Too much howling about cowboy stuff, so he let the EU diplomats handle it. How did that work out?
a capella on April 23, 2009 at 11:46 AM
People said the same thing about Bush policy, which veered horribly left in his second term. Most people here thought Condi Rice sucked as SecState, in good measure becuase of her idiotic attempts to force Israel into that pathetic Road-Kill Map, that was violated by the Pals the day it was presented and every day after.
Bush’s refusal to take care of Iran was a horrible black mark on his Presidency. Bush held strong on Iraq (thank G-d) but lost his nerve to finish the job with Iran. That was mostly thanks to the constant stream of treasonous accusations from the left, who want nothing more but that America should be severely harmed.
But, as bad as 2nd term Bush policy was in the middle east, The Precedent’s policy is anti-Israeli, anti-American, anti-Western and does nothing but harm the civilized world – as is his intention, obviously.
progressoverpeace on April 23, 2009 at 11:49 AM
Oh Benjamin, just go shake Ahmadinejad’s hand or apologize for the perceived aggressions agains Iran.
You’ll feel better and people will love you.
Then you can go on a world tour and apologize to everyone else and sit quietly while dictators denigrate your country.
jack herman on April 23, 2009 at 11:51 AM
Same goes with that.
IMHO we should have wiped Iran off the face of the Earth.
They’ve been basically murdering our soldiers for years by supporting the enemies we fight.
So Bush deserves the same criticism for not doing anything of substance.
But then this world is full of people who are afraid to ‘do’ anything.
Cowboy diplomacy is needed now. Nobody has done anything since Reagan. And even he should have done a lot more.
Badger40 on April 23, 2009 at 11:51 AM
Nah, clashes with my “Obama-as-ghost-of-KGBs-past” theory.
Count to 10 on April 23, 2009 at 11:51 AM
Obama’s foreign policy is like Al Bundy (Married with Children) negotiating to buy his dream car.
Bundy to his kids: Watch and learn kids.
Bundy to salesman: I want the car at a discount.
Salesman: No.
Bundy: Good. And I want a low interest rate.
Salesman: No.
Bundy. Good. And I want a free extended warranty.
Salesman. No.
Bundy: Good. And I want one of those shiny, walnut racing stick shift knobs.
Salesman: I think we have a plastic one in the back.
Bundy: Good. It’s a deal.
Traffic Cop Timmy on April 23, 2009 at 11:51 AM
If that’s really the US position, then the Obama administration hasn’t got a clue.
bluelightbrigade on April 23, 2009 at 11:58 AM
I support Israel strongly, but 78% of American Jews voted Obama. They do this every election. They will destroy their own homeland soon.
Daemonocracy on April 23, 2009 at 12:06 PM
Lets face the facts folks; the western powers including the US have failed miserably in dealing with the Iranian menace. This has left the Israelis with little choice but to fend for themselves. If nObama et al. are really attempting to decouple Iran (and Syria) from Hamas, Hezbollah and other militant regional factions Israel is at greater risk than ever. I’ve always been puzzled on how the Palestinians can purchase arms when they cannot feed themselves.
Smart Power to the rescue….
dmann on April 23, 2009 at 12:10 PM
I wouldn’t say Netanyahu is trying to dictate US policy. It would be INSANE to allow Iran to further its prestige in the region. If Israel goes forward with even the slightest bit of negotiation with the Palestinians it is 100% guaranteed to play along with the Iran bests the West line of rhetoric. Fix the issue with Iran then work on the “peace process” is the only sensible way assuming that any sensible “peace process” can be found when the Palestinians can’t bargain in good faith.
darcee on April 23, 2009 at 12:10 PM
As are all the world’s leaders. Just wait until the hard-left, anti-Israel contingent (i.e., Soros controlled) get on to this. Obama will meet himself coming and going trying to keep all sides pacified. Obviously, he can’t, so let’s take bets on who will be the biggest loser–Israel, the so-called Palestinians, Iran or George Soros?
drewas on April 23, 2009 at 12:12 PM
We don’t know what would have happened if not for that falsified intelligence estimate saying Iran had stopped production efforts. That was the killer and the timing was perfect.
a capella on April 23, 2009 at 12:15 PM
Hmm “Traditional deference” is not only “unecessary”, it is inappropriate. In fact, considering your President’s positions and statements on Israel and the once-strong alliance between our nations, I am not sure that anything more than minimal civility is currently appropriate for your leaders from ours.
“Deference” from one party to another is suitable for some relationships; that between teacher and student comes to mind, as does that between congregant and clergy. For the relationship between two sovereign nations that purportedly possess common values and aims to be characterized by deference, however, is absurd and ugly, and indicates that there exists no true alliance.
I see no reason that Netanyahu SHOULD pay any real attention to Obama at this point. Obama is simply not a trustworthy interlocutor for us, and – more importantly – Bibi was elected by OUR people, not yours, and our people are no longer interested in providing our lives, dignity, and security to supply the fuel for this horrific engine which is the Western/Arab “peace process”. We elected Bibi to PROTECT us from mealy-mouthed cowardice like that that represents so much of your new President’s “smart power”.
We bemoan the straits into which America has plunged herself, because we, more than many other peoples, perhaps, still feel awe and gratitude for what America has been and done. We also believe that you will ascend again, after learning some painful lessons in the near future.
That said, we in Israel are currently facing a vicious, implacable foe that overtly desires the annihilation of our People and our Land. The fact that America has chosen leadership that refuses to acknowledge the existence of any foe – that lacks even the moral courage to call war war and terrorists terrorists – does not in any way change the geopolitical reality that we face here, nor does it obligate us to change our worldview (and nor will we).
When you were our ally, we were very much the better for it, and I feel that history speaks very well about what we were able to return to you, in military intelligence, art, science, and promotion of human dignity and freedom. Now that you are not our ally, we will be the weaker for it. . .
. . . but we will NEVER be so weak that we cannot strive to defend our Land, our People, and our faith. With or without your help and support, we will work to protect ourselves from the evildoers around us.
We ELECTED Bibi for this job, and so far we are PLEASED that he is not falling in line with your empty leftist President. If America wishes to continue spending lives for political expediency with her Arab “friends” it will have to be someone else’s lives that are thrown away. Israel has ssupplied more than her share of blood.
I am going to guess that even Obama does not think that AMERICAN lives should be spent so frivolously; it is an egregious slap to ask Israelis to spend OUR lives like that. You know as well as we do that there will be no peace with the Arabs, no matter how many Jews they kill, no matter what exorbitant giftlist you come up with for us to supply them with.
Bibi is right to make this statement – he is there to represent Israel’s interests and no one else’s. Our interests are not served by any more perpetuation of this ridiculous and deadly fiction about a “peace process” where the people on the other side of the table are well-known liars and mass murderers and the only side that ever gives up ANYTHING material is ours. GAME OVER.
Baruch HaShem and an excellent day to all!
Aaron
MogenDavid on April 23, 2009 at 12:16 PM
Wow I’m wordy, even in English >.< Sorry about that
How about you guys get your nation in line so I don’t have to be flipping out all the time!! Israel misses you, please elect a decent leader so we can hang again, as the young’uns might say :D
Am Yisroel Chai!
Aaron
MogenDavid on April 23, 2009 at 12:17 PM
Odds are, Israel will no longer exist come the next ObamAmerican presidential election. Unless, that is, Israel takes out Iran first. What choice do they have?
RandyChandler on April 23, 2009 at 12:18 PM
BRAVO. Your nation is in the prayers of more than a majority of Americans I would bet, including my own.
Badger40 on April 23, 2009 at 12:19 PM
I have faith that will not happen.
I’m thinking it’s kinda foretold.
Badger40 on April 23, 2009 at 12:20 PM
Big time! I’d really like to see the authors who inserted that obvious lie into that steaming piece of dung prosecuted for treason.
progressoverpeace on April 23, 2009 at 12:20 PM
Ditto
Good posts MogenDavid! I love to read your point of view in these matters. Thank you.
akerralls on April 23, 2009 at 12:26 PM
So now nations put conditions on us to talk? Thanks Obama.
allrsn on April 23, 2009 at 12:35 PM
Any attempt by Israel to destroy Iran’s nuclear facilities could jeopardize the US mission in Iraq and the life of US soldiers. It is not as simple as it was back in 1981 when they took care of Saddam’s. The way I see it, Netanyahu is being aggressive because his only hope is that the US would pressure the UN to put more sanctions on Iran.
I still think Israel should beg the US for a piece of empty land and the honor to be its 51st state. Pessimists live longer!
Michelle Dubois on April 23, 2009 at 12:36 PM
Well of course they do, this is what they believe in and hate. This is what makes them so dangerous to freedom.
allrsn on April 23, 2009 at 12:47 PM
Do you think Obama would use this as an excuse to use force to stop Israel? Follow-up question: Does U.S. military have assets in the region to block any military move by Israel?
Israel’s back is to the wall. If it comes down to defending their survival or jeopardzing the US mission in Iraq, that’s hardly a choice.
[I don't think Obama would use anything but tough talk to stop Israel from fighting for its life.]
RandyChandler on April 23, 2009 at 12:49 PM
MogenDavid
Are Israelis as perplexed by the Jewish vote overwhelmingly going to Obama as many of us here are?
JM Hanes on April 23, 2009 at 12:49 PM
Total misunderstanding of cultural and spiritual attachment to Israel’s homeland.
cs89 on April 23, 2009 at 12:55 PM
Seems our new Pres. has indeed changed our direction on foreign policy, the rest of the worlds opinion used to be one of jealousy and arrogant derision, now its just arrogant derision mixed with some humorous pity.
Speakup on April 23, 2009 at 1:02 PM
JM Hanes – yes – we are horrified and ashamed at the American Jewish comminuty’s total disconnect from their should-be spiritual brethren in Eretz Yisroel.
It is an ongoing issue for us trying to fight off those who want to divide our community into “real” Jews (and everyone’s idea of “real” is different) and “fake” Jews. . . But I have to admit that I am finding it increasingly difficult to be associated with American Jewry, which seems too often to prefer sycophancy and grovelling for approval to the strict ethical thinking and behavior that characterize what is strongest and best in our faith. I fear that the “dilution” of Judaism in America is a real thing (with all due respect and Kol HaKavod to my Lubavicher/other Hasidim brothers and sisters!!), and this dilution of ethical strength is reflected in the Jewish vote turning majority-moonbat >.<
Michelle DuBois, I think that what you said was not meant to be malevolent, but it was sort of an awful thing to say. Jews know, based on the Torah, that Israel is the Land which G-d gave to us to keep holy. There can be no substitute, nor does there need to be.
Kol Tuv
aaron
MogenDavid on April 23, 2009 at 1:04 PM
Hmmm… thanks for letting me know, I lived there for 24 years but somehow their cultural and spiritual attachment eluded me. Is that what zionism all about?
Michelle Dubois on April 23, 2009 at 1:04 PM
Yeah Bibi… and we could not do anything to settle the Palestinian Questions because of Iraq. Now the Israeli right wing is saying they can’t make any progress because of Iran. It’s bullshit of course. The truth is that the best way to reduce Iran’s influence in the region, and the influence of Hamas and Al Queda, is to make progress towards a lasting settlement. Many here supported the Gaza incursion and attacks because that was supposed to weaken Hamas and Iran… it had the opposite effect.
The Americans need to keep looking at the larger picture and not be distracted by Bibi and his FM and their foot dragging. Bibi and his FM were not installed into office by a majority vote. It is time for the US to follow its own national interest here and the truth is that it is not at odds with Israel’s… Just Bibi’s and his little band of followers who think the Palestinian question can be avoided for another decade.
lexhamfox on April 23, 2009 at 1:07 PM
MogenDavid and this Brit will also be praying for Israel, well said.
TrueBrit on April 23, 2009 at 1:12 PM
No I wasn’t, I love Israel, I’m just the eternal pessimist, I don’t think the Muslims would ever want peace. They are filled with hate and eventually that hatred would be too strong to stop like in Nazi Germany. You know what Golda said (I’m paraphrasing): We will have peace when the Arabs learn to love their children more than they hate the Jews. I just don’t see it happening.
Michelle Dubois on April 23, 2009 at 1:21 PM
disingenuous
John the Libertarian on April 23, 2009 at 1:22 PM
Good luck and God Bless, I’m praying for your country…
right4life on April 23, 2009 at 1:25 PM
there will be no need for a substitute…you don’t need the US…I have been expecting the US to abandon Israel for decades…now it has…
Israel is left with only one Friend..but He’s the only friend ya need!!
right4life on April 23, 2009 at 1:27 PM
I don’t know Obama, then again I don’t think anyone does. The guy is an enigma, but from the choices he made so far I’m slowly starting to believe that anything he does has some kind of a sinister agenda, and I hate, hate conspiracy theories.
Netanyahu should do what he can to stop Iran. Most of my family and friends live in Israel and I really want to see them again. I don’t want them to get hurt and I don’t want US soldiers to get hurt.
Michelle Dubois on April 23, 2009 at 1:28 PM
The Guardian of Israel neither slumbers nor sleeps.
Psalm 121
ncc770 on April 23, 2009 at 1:34 PM
I fail to see what harm Bibi is risking here.
By the time Obambi gets US aid funds cut, the US dollar will be on par with the Zimbabwe dollar.
Kristopher on April 23, 2009 at 1:37 PM
so how is it our national interest bending over for iran??
the ‘palestinian question’ what a joke. their arab ‘brothers’ have vast swaths of land…let them give their palestinian ‘brothers’ some of that…
the only reason the ‘palestinians’ exist is to destroy israel and kill jews…
right4life on April 23, 2009 at 1:43 PM
I beg to differ, I’m a coward not a hypocrite and by admitting I’m a coward I disprove being disingenuous :o)
Michelle Dubois on April 23, 2009 at 1:46 PM
Wordy? Not how I would describe impassioned eloquence…
Well said, Aaron.
ProfessorMiao on April 23, 2009 at 1:46 PM
the only ‘lasting settlement’ the ‘palestinians’ want is the destruction of Israel and the death of the jews…
to think giving the ‘palestinians’ a state will make peace with israel is delusional..its like thinking obama bowing and scraping to the muslim king will buy us peace with al-qaeda…
there is no peace, and there won’t be until after armageddon…sorry.
right4life on April 23, 2009 at 1:53 PM
NYT Headline the next day: Obama extracts important concession from notoriously difficult car dealer!!!
More a comment about you than about Israel–that’s pretty obvious.
Yasher koach on your many fine posts, Aaron. The problem is that the modern/liberal wing of American Jewry has fallen for the PC/academia line. Just as American exceptionalism is complete anathema to them, so too, Jewish exceptionalism. You can hear any number of this stripe calling the imprecations of the “Jewish continuity” crowd, which naturally urges them to marry within the faith “racist,” as if the Jewish religion isn’t made up of every race under the sun. So obviously the idea of a “Jewish state” is just yucky, on its face. If the highest calling of mankind is not to adhere to something higher than mankind, but rather to just avoid offending anyone, then the results will be predictable. Rather than rising toward heaven, we can only descend into deeper and deeper moral indifference. As someone mentioned above w respect to Obama, that as he tries to appease every dictator out there he will eventually meeting himself coming and going, so too these PC Jews will meet themselves coming and going. Lets just hope that they will not meet their co-religionists coming and going as the new kapos in flesh and blood camps. They are already the kapos in the ideological camps that exist on college campuses–siding with the terrorists, and apologizing for terror at every opportunity.
Am Yisroel chai ve-kayam!
smellthecoffee on April 23, 2009 at 1:58 PM
right4life on April 23, 2009 at 1:43 PM
How are we bending over for Iran? If we attack Iran we will be doing the leadership there a favor by uniting the country behind them. By making progress towards a permanent home for the Palestinians we reduce their influence and demonstrate the futility of the conflict they want to sustain.
The Palestinians have a relationship to the land just as the Israelis do… otherwise the issue would already be settled.
The Palestians were there before the State of Israel so I imagine their existing is a little deeper than you suggest.
. MogenDavid
Oh really… you must be really pissed off with Israeli Jews then.
lexhamfox on April 23, 2009 at 1:58 PM
The Palestinian question is a bogus question, like When did you stop beating your wife?
And any peace with the human pawns known as Palestinians and their true masters will be a bogus as well. “Peace” in the Middle East is likely to be a delaying tactic, the ultimate goal being to take Israel off the board forever.
Unless Allah appears and tells all his followers to knock off the hate and violence, I don’t see any hope for real peace.
RandyChandler on April 23, 2009 at 2:09 PM
Until about 1964, “the Palestinians” referred as often to Jews as it did to Arabs. “The Palestinians” as a people is a pure invention. Arafat, for example, was Egyptian.
Ever look at a map of Israel between 1949 and 1967? Who was “occupying” the West Bank then? Jordan. If so, why, especially considering Palestinians were a majority population in Jordan, were there still refugee camps in the West Bank in 1967? Now tell my why “the issue isn’t settled.” It’s not because Israel hasn’t offered the Palestinians a state of their own. Ask Dennis Ross and Bill Clinton to explain that to you. Maybe Jordan doesn’t want the “issue settled” as the Hashemite dynasty continues to run roughshod over it’s own Palestinian population? Put a sovereign Palestinian nation on the West Bank of the Jordan river and, who knows, maybe the Palestinians in Jordan will want to carve out an “East Bank” to go with it! Now go do some research and tell me which country was responsible for the “Black September” for which the infamous Munich terrorist group was named, and what was “black” about that particular September. THEN tell me all of this is Israel’s fault.
smellthecoffee on April 23, 2009 at 2:10 PM
Two points here:
1)Study your world history. No nation that has ever turned its back on the Israeli people has ever amounted to anything again. If this country turns its back on God’s chosen people, particularly at this crucial time in world history, I expect this country’s demise will soon follow, as we already appear to be going the way of the Roman Empire, only we are moving down that road 1000 times faster than did they.
2)The United States of America is not mentioned anywhere in Biblical prophecy, but Iran, Russia and China, along with Israel, are, particularly around the time of the final battle. Of all the nations I have just listed, which one is on its way out as a world power, and which ones are on the ascent?
Just sayin.’
-Dave
Dave R. on April 23, 2009 at 2:13 PM
As serfs on their own land, working it for their rich fellow Arabs who were fuedally exploiting them.
Only they weren’t allowed to really do anything about it, bcs of their fellow Arabs exploitation.
Immigrant Jews came in & legally bought the land from rich Arabs & some of the poor ones.
So rich Arabs terrorize the poor Arabs into not selling the land bcs it’s treasonous & then they buy it & turn around & sell it to the Jews.
So let’s blame the Jews for dispossessing the “Palestinians” who were nothing but landless SERFS being exploited by their own PEOPLE.
Say nothing of the Jewish compassion for Palestinians & the creation of a system that allowed these people to be in control of their own destiny if they wished.
Save the tripe for somewhere else.
Badger40 on April 23, 2009 at 2:16 PM
we’ll talk to them without conditions…they don’t have to stop their uranium enrichment..remember?
and the difference would be????
you don’t understand the nature of this conflict. its not about the ‘palestinians’ and their alleged ‘grievances’ its the existance of any religion or people who are not submitted to islam…get a clue..
please…Israel was pretty empty until the jews returned, then the arabs came…and it is the jews land..sorry.
so were the jews.
right4life on April 23, 2009 at 2:16 PM
“The Guardian of Israel neither slumbers nor sleeps.”
Well He’s certainly dozed off enough times for Jews to put their faith in vigilance rather than rely on the inscrutable and occasional protection He affords them alone.
MogenDavid:
Thanks. It’s worse than just ironic that Jews here are so often, and so perniciously, presumed to have “divided loyalties” when their voting patterns so clearly suggest the opposite.
At the risk of pestering you with questions, I wonder if Obama’s rather astonishing decision not to meet with Netanyahu has bolstered support for him at home? I suspect that the President thinks he can change an assumed dynamic by meeting with other heads of state in the region first, but I also wonder if Netanyahu might have been overtly testing the waters. Normally, I would think that scheduling such an event would be a matter of private communications and I’m not sure whose interests the oddly public nature of the snub was meant to serve. I can actually see how it might potentially serve both Netanyahu and Obama in some interesting ways.
Unfortunately, I think such distancing more likely represents an inauspicious signal of the President’s intentions. I doubt that he will ever miss an opportunity to pass the buck, and this one is easy when he can be pretty confident that Israel is prepared to do what he is not in its own defense.
JM Hanes on April 23, 2009 at 2:17 PM
Well noted. But remember: the Bible is so out of fashion.
Good is now the new evil.
You can;t say anything to unreasonable people about this situation.
They still rant & rave how the Jews stole that land-caring nothing for the fact that the Arabs themselves are the reason they are all so miserable.
It’s easy to blame this on the Jews. Then you don’t have to do any soul-searching about Islam or the poisonous Arab culture.
Badger40 on April 23, 2009 at 2:18 PM
Sweet.
Islam hates the Jews bcs they were there in the beginning of everything.
It can be proven they were there LONG before any presence of Islam ever was.
So what of that?
Badger40 on April 23, 2009 at 2:20 PM
The crux of the matter.
Islam is not compatible with anything other than itself.
The only solution according to that ideology is for all to convert or die.
No amount of talking or placating will change that reality.
Badger40 on April 23, 2009 at 2:23 PM
Yeah. It reminds me of an hysterically funny article I read from a Jewish columnist around the time when the movie “The Passion” was all the rage. It was also the rage in the Arab world, because they thought, I guess, that it put the Jews in a bad light. (I guess they hadn’t heard of Vatican II ;-) At any rate this columnist pointed out something very interesting that was missing from the historical presentation of life in Jerusalem at the time of Christ–Muslims. OOOPS! And Jesus threw the money-changers our of what–Al Aqsa Mosque? Mmmmm, no. That would have been the Holy Temple. Anyway Ahmed–glad you enjoyed the show!
smellthecoffee on April 23, 2009 at 2:31 PM
He certainly has not dozed. Mark Twain’s famous quote sets up the premise:
The answer to Twain’s question is that the Guardian of Israel neither slumbers nor sleeps. That throughout history the strongest empires in the world — from Egypt to Greece to Rome to the Czars to the Nazis to the Soviets have tried to destroy the Jews and that the Jews are still here and those empires have all disappeared is proof enough of a Divine eye watching the Jews.
ncc770 on April 23, 2009 at 2:38 PM
I’m not quite sure I understand…they hate everything that is not islam…giving the palestinians a state will solve nothing…killing all the jews will solve nothing, as long as there are nations and people that are not islamic…there will be be war between islam and all that is not islam…
right4life on April 23, 2009 at 2:51 PM
ncc770:
I suggest you try to imagine what Twain would have had to say after the holocaust. You might also try reading Letters from the Earth or his War Prayer before quoting Twain, of all people, to support the notion that Jews owe their persistence and successes to divine protection.
lexhamfox:
“By making progress towards a permanent home for the Palestinians we reduce their influence and demonstrate the futility of the conflict they want to sustain.”
Once upon a time, I might have called that a reasonable proposition, but Arafat and the 2nd intifada finally disabused me of that view. How can anyone who witnessed the internal self-destruction and the uninterrupted provocations which followed on the Israeli withdrawal from Gaza still believe the vaunted two state solution is the singular key to peace? It will create a terrorist state, empowered by the protections that sovereignty affords it, to deal as openly with Iran and others as is done clandestinely now. The world will continue to ignore Palestinian incursions on the Israeli state, and respond with amplified outrage and punitive sanctions should Israel breach newly inviolable Palestinian borders in any fashion — whether in reality or in manufactured propaganda.
There are no simple or painless end games here.
JM Hanes on April 23, 2009 at 3:08 PM
Israel had built an incredibly lucrative, lettuce-growing industry in Gaza, very high-tech, which required the use of very limited pesticides–it was known as the salad bowl of Europe. All this was left to the Pals as a turn-key operation, the departing farmers didn’t remove or disable any of it, but guess what happened? The Pals had a collective temper tantrum and tore it all out in a matter of a few days. THAT should be a sign to anyone in with eyes to see–these people have no wish for even the most basic desires–a good life for themselves and their families. If you can’t rely on people to act in their own best interests, if you can’t rely on them to be reasonable in some fundatmental sense, then what can be done with them?
smellthecoffee on April 23, 2009 at 3:20 PM
I am perfectly aware that Twain’s view of the Jews was consistent with his times. As I noted, I quoted Twain, because that quote set up my premise – how can it be that Jews have survived thousands of years of onslaught from the superpowers of their times if not Divine intervention. The holocaust is another case in point. Not only did the Jews survive the Nazi genocide, but literally within years established a nation on their historic homeland and fought off 6 combined armies to do it. Israel is here and the 1000 year reich is not. So to answer your question, I think Twain would look at the holocaust, and Jewish history in its aftermath and just reask his original question — What is the secret of the Jews’ immortality.
ncc770 on April 23, 2009 at 3:29 PM
So do I. Does he have dual citizenship? Can he be President of two nations simultaneously? Please??!!
jimmy2shoes on April 23, 2009 at 4:06 PM
Hey, is your brain misfiring? Israel has always been isolated. Ever notice UN resolution votes concerning Israel? It’s because the Israelis have no honest partners for peace that they maintain the position they do.
jimmy2shoes on April 23, 2009 at 4:10 PM
He’s not setting our foreign policy so much as letting us know that he isn’t going to allow us to set Israel’s foreign policy.
jimmy2shoes on April 23, 2009 at 4:20 PM
Israel would have to be recklessly foolish to let Obama set its foreign policy. As foolish as America is now.
RandyChandler on April 23, 2009 at 4:32 PM
Maybe ProudRino or getalife can jump in here and explain to us bumpkins exactly how Obama expects Iran to allow a nuclear armed Israel to remain alive and breathing?
I mean – I’m in the mood for a fairy tale right about now.
The fact is, there will be no peace in the middle east until either the radical states like Iran and Syria are overthrown OR the entire Jewish nation is pushed into the sea. That’s pretty clear to most of us out here but not so clear to Obama and his boys. Either Obama is a complete idiot or he wants to see Israel fail.
Can someone remind me of why any Jew in the U.S. would vote Democratic? I mean – I get the fact that they may not have liked the Bush economic policies – but did that trump seeing their brothers in Israel have a fighting chance at survival? It appears so … Because now we have Obambi and Israel is doomed.
I hope that, at the very least … Israel chooses to USE it’s nukes prior to being destroyed themselves.
HondaV65 on April 23, 2009 at 4:35 PM
^^Man I’m shocked … getalife is now firmly cheering for the Islamofascists.
HondaV65 on April 23, 2009 at 4:37 PM
US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton warned Israel on Thursday that it risks losing Arab support for combating threats from Iran if it rejects peace negotiations with the Palestinians.
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1239710775180&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
bnelson44 on April 23, 2009 at 5:20 PM
I hope Israel is denying this report, for the sake of denial.
Lance Murdock on April 23, 2009 at 5:25 PM
The crux of the matter.
Islam is not compatible with anything
other thannot even itself.The only solution according to that ideology is for all to convert or die.
No amount of talking or placating will change that reality.
Badger40 on April 23, 2009 at 2:23 PM
.
They kill each other just as readily over Islam
.
.
Netanyahu = A leader I respect.
Wish we had one.
darktood on April 23, 2009 at 6:01 PM
NETANYAHU IS A TOTAL HOTTIE!
Ghoul aid on April 23, 2009 at 6:11 PM
This is exactly what I’m thinking and was alluding to in my post this morning. Not only is the USA not mentioned, but not anything as ambiguous as the “west”. Always the “north”.
This is what is so terrifying for me. Our way of life and culture is totally gone.
cjs1943 on April 23, 2009 at 6:57 PM
Not dead … not yet.
America is coming into a long, dark age. The reason is – the American spirit was embodied in our Founding Fathers when they stood up to England. Since then – we’ve been riding on their legacy and the fruits of their struggle and sacrifice.
We’ve been coasting – and on top of that – we’ve been degrading as well. America is now a “nation of the flesh” … not too far from Sodom and Gomorrah. We’ve allowed the base elements of selfishness to usurp our American birthright.
Americans will now have to re-earn that birthright. The righteous people will triumph – like our Forefathers did. It will be tough – and mostly for our children. We will be known as “America’s Worst Generation” – because we allowed the surly elements to take the Republic from us.
But at some point in the future – another generation of great Americans will arise – it just won’t be us.
HondaV65 on April 23, 2009 at 7:50 PM
Bush aint here no more sunshine. Woulda,Coulda,Shoulda but he didnt. We’re talking about NOW and OBAMA.
Sultanofsham on April 23, 2009 at 7:54 PM
Nope, the Zimbabwe dollar will be worth more than the US dollar.
doriangrey on April 23, 2009 at 8:23 PM
1. Is there a false messiah amongst us?
2. Is good counted as evil and evil counted as good?
3. Is Armegeddon coming?
4. Will He RETURN?
odannyboy on April 23, 2009 at 8:34 PM
Yes. AWACS in theater, and fighters a-plenty. The Israelis have just enough fuel (barring our intervention) to make it to their targets in Iran, unload, assess, and (if needed) unload again, and to then fly back, landing on fumes. If they have to fight their way back, they won’t make it due to the fuel costs. Hence, if the US opposes them, the heroic Isreali pilots are in essence on a one-way (suicide) run.
Therefore, it’s better to have approval from the US. In fact, if agreement is made, we can refuel them so they have more time over target.
unclesmrgol on April 23, 2009 at 9:11 PM
Interesting. A reaction to Danny’s non-statement.
unclesmrgol on April 23, 2009 at 9:13 PM
Just listened to Elie Wiesel and his remarks to BHO at the Holocaust Day of Remembrance ceremony. (BTW for all you libturds-he’s a Nobel laureate)
Did this thanks come with a knowing belly/bitch slap and will BHO claim credit for the walkout at Geneva conf on anti-rascism?
Well, yes and yes.
Although we know our Maple leaf covered friends to the north led here (we again welcome you into the world of sanity), it’s up to us to hold this posuer accountable for all of his failures.
Keep the fu’s coming oBarfy.
OkieDoc on April 23, 2009 at 9:30 PM
US approval or not, if the US does not act Israel will.
doriangrey on April 23, 2009 at 9:32 PM
1. Is water wet?
2. Have you been on a college campus lately?
3. I thought that movie stunk, didn’t you?
4. When did the asylum get internet access?
ElectricPhase on April 23, 2009 at 9:33 PM
But I suspect that the act is doomed to failure if the US actively opposes. They do have to fly over Iraq…
unclesmrgol on April 23, 2009 at 11:55 PM
Consider what you would do if you lived in Texas and Mexico came in and took it over, forcing people (including your family) out of their homes and across the new border (after all, there’s a lot more land in America than just Texas, and those gringos ought to just go and settle there). How do you think the displaced people (some of whom would go guerrilla and stay in Texas) would act? Would they go meekly to their new homes in Seattle, or would they fight back? And their children — what would they learn from their parents?
Even better, consider what you would do if you lived in Israel and a bunch of Roman occupiers forced you out, and you and your family, unwanted by the peoples they moved through, tried to live amongst these strangers? How long would the urge to regain your lost land last? Would it outlast the Romans themselves? Even though you were born far away — even overseas — would you forget the land to which you were once tied? Turn that around, and you have what’s going on today.
unclesmrgol on April 24, 2009 at 12:10 AM
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